IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 1 September 2007 (all times are UTC)
| 00:04 | <sbalneav> Night all
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| 09:12 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 09:12 | <Faithful1> scotty!
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| 09:16 | <sbalneav> hey faithful
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| 10:37 | <jim_k> anyone in here that follows the edubuntu-users list?
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| 10:38 | sbalneav....you around?
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| 10:40 | I need help troubleshooting a hard freeze on clients when opening graphic intense websites
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| 10:41 | Or at least a confirmation that others have client freezes when opening a site such as http://www.carteretcountyschools.org/bms/teacherwebs/sdavenport/artgallery6.htm
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| 10:43 | vagrantc has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:43 | <jim_k> I must have joined during lunch break :-)
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| 10:45 | vagrantc.....are you available?
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| 10:48 | I am wondering if anyone can see my posts?
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| 10:49 | help needed troubleshooting client freezes with graphic intense websites
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| 10:49 | jim_k has quit IRC | |
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| 10:50 | <vagrantc> jim_k: see your posts ?
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| 10:50 | posts where?
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| 10:51 | <jim_k> here....just did see anyone responding
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| 10:51 | wasn't sure if I was logged in right
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| 10:51 | everyone must just be busy...thanks for the reply
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| 10:51 | <vagrantc> just ask your questions, be patient, and someone will respond when they can
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| 10:52 | jammcq has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:52 | <sbalneav> jim_k:
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| 10:52 | <vagrantc> jammcq: mornin
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| 10:53 | <sbalneav> I was looking at things earlier.
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| 10:53 | <jim_k> Okay....I need help troubleshooting clients freezing hard when accessing graphic intense websites
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| 10:53 | <jammcq> hey kids
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| 10:53 | <sbalneav> This is kind of an old problem.
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| 10:53 | hey jammcq
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| 10:53 | <jammcq> jim_k: hey, still at it, eh?
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| 10:53 | <jim_k> If I hit a site such as http://www.carteretcountyschools.org/bms/teacherwebs/sdavenport/artgallery6.htm the client freezes hard
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| 10:53 | jammcq...yep :-(
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| 10:53 | I just posted the results of running free on the edubuntu-users list
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| 10:54 | sbalneav....old problem huh, crap, this is making things almost unusable here
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| 10:54 | first week of school after convincing everyone to finally ditch all the old macs and go linux
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| 10:55 | now students are constantly freezing while browsing the web
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| 10:55 | even worse, when they freeze processes are left over, making it so they can't log back in again without errors
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| 10:55 | so I'm here all weekend until I figure out how to make this work on Tuesday :-(
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| 10:56 | <ari_stress> sorry to hear that jim_k
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| 10:56 | <jammcq> jim_k: someone needs to slap that website creator. using width and height to scale a big image is just wrong
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| 10:56 | <sbalneav> There's no way to really fix it, but there is a way to help it somewhat.
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| 10:57 | <ari_stress> will adding more ram help?
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| 10:57 | <jim_k> jammcq..yeah, but our art class doesn't really care when they just search for outrageously large paintings
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| 10:57 | <jammcq> ari_stress: yes, adding more ram helps
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| 10:57 | <jim_k> ari_stress...adding ram helps
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| 10:57 | <jammcq> jim_k: crank swap up even higher
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| 10:57 | <sbalneav> The problem is that Firefox simply keeps allocating pixmap space on the thin client, until the x server basically exhausts ram completely
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| 10:57 | <jim_k> but even with 512MB on the client from 128MB I still crash on the above listed site
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| 10:58 | jammcq...is there a problem with having too large a swap? I'll set it to 1GB if need be :-)
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| 10:58 | <sbalneav> however, jammcq and I came up with a solution, which might help here, and I've looked up.
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| 10:58 | <jim_k> sbalneav....all ears
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| 10:58 | <jammcq> well, the problem is, you can't fit 10 lbs of crap in a 5lb bushel basket
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| 10:58 | <ari_stress> i'm opening the site now, and it's ridiculously heavy
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| 10:58 | <jammcq> firefox sends the images to the Xserver to be displayed
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| 10:59 | <jim_k> is there a way to tell the client to quite loading the crap into the basket before it crashes?
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| 10:59 | <sbalneav> ok, you're using ldm, correct?
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| 10:59 | <jammcq> jim_k: you can tell the Xserver to only allocate some percentage of total available ram.
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| 10:59 | <jim_k> sbalneav....yep....ldm...tried with and without DIRECTX hack
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| 10:59 | <jammcq> but, what happens is the next thing that asks the Xserver for ram will get denied
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| 10:59 | <jim_k> jammcq...will that help it to not crash
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| 11:00 | <sbalneav> ok, so, lets go to /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/screen.d/ldm, and edit it.
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| 11:00 | <jammcq> unfortunately, Xclients aren't usually written to deal with the denial of ram, so the client crashes
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| 11:00 | <jim_k> at this point I'd be okay with the site not loading, and the client not crashing
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| 11:00 | <jammcq> when it's firefox, then firefox dies. prolly not a big deal. but.... what if it's Gnome that makes the request. For instance, you click a menu, it causes a memory request. then Gnome crashes
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| 11:01 | <jim_k> no screen.d directory
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| 11:01 | <sbalneav> sorry, /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/ltsp/screen.d
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| 11:01 | <jim_k> firefox dies...okay with that, gnome dies and goes to login screen...okay with that too, just client freezing bad
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| 11:02 | okay ldm open for editing
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| 11:02 | well I guess I'm not "okay" with the crashing, but it would be a stop forward
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| 11:03 | <sbalneav> ok, just before the line that says: ldm ..., down at the bottom?
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| 11:03 | <ltsppbot> "sbalneav" pasted "Additions to ldm" (16 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/298
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| 11:04 | <sbalneav> paste that in.
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| 11:04 | then, add the following line to your lts.conf file:
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| 11:04 | <jim_k> ahh, shoot, I don't see a line that starts with ldm
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| 11:05 | <sbalneav> it's at the bottom
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| 11:05 | <jammcq> sbalneav: could you post a few lines from that file, so i can see it?
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| 11:05 | <sbalneav> which, the ldm screen script?
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| 11:05 | <jim_k> vim /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/ltsp/screen.d/ldm last line is exec ldm vt$ttynum :$displaynum
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| 11:05 | <sbalneav> that's the one.
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| 11:06 | paste what I posted just before that line.
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| 11:06 | <jammcq> sorry, we have a new dog that walked across my keyboard and closed my irc window
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| 11:06 | <jim_k> okay, I pasted the modified text
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| 11:07 | <sbalneav> New dog?!?! \o/
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| 11:07 | <jim_k> jammcq....:-)
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| 11:07 | <jammcq> little 2.25lb chahuahua
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| 11:07 | <sbalneav> bs
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| 11:07 | :)
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| 11:08 | ok, so now, add the following line to your [defaults] section in lts.conf
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| 11:08 | XRAMPERC=75
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| 11:08 | <jim_k> jammcq....you get one of those purses like paris hilton to put the dog in :-)
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| 11:08 | <jammcq> jim_k: oh yeah, the whole thing
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| 11:08 | <jim_k> lts.conf modified
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| 11:09 | <jammcq> it's amazing the energy a little 2 pound dog can have
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| 11:09 | <jim_k> my wifes parents have little dogs, energy never stops
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| 11:09 | <sbalneav> now, reboot a client, and lets make sure it boots.
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| 11:09 | <jammcq> my fear is that I'll step on the little thing
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| 11:10 | <jim_k> jammcq...that wouldn't be good :-)
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| 11:10 | client booting okay so far
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| 11:11 | so this hack should keep X from using more than 75% of available RAM?
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| 11:11 | <sbalneav> jammcq: You're serious?
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| 11:11 | <jammcq> sbalneav: about what?
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| 11:11 | <sbalneav> You've got a chahuahua?
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| 11:11 | <jim_k> client booted up...I'll log in
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| 11:11 | <jammcq> yeah
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| 11:11 | a REAL cha hua hua
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| 11:11 | black
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| 11:11 | <sbalneav> LOL, thought you were joking.
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| 11:11 | <jammcq> pff, dead serious
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| 11:12 | <jim_k> crap forgot to kill old processes, rebooting
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| 11:14 | booted up...logged in successfully
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| 11:14 | Should I try crashing it :-)
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| 11:15 | <sbalneav> I'd say, yes.
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| 11:15 | <jim_k> here goes nothing
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| 11:16 | well...the second I go to load one of those pages firefox crashes and I'm back to my desktop
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| 11:16 | <jammcq> there ya go
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| 11:16 | <jim_k> it doesn't look like it even tries to use nbd now
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| 11:17 | I play with this and see how it goes
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| 11:17 | I assume I can play with the percentage used in XRAMPERC
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| 11:17 | <jammcq> yeah, even try 95%
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| 11:17 | <sbalneav> yup.
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| 11:17 | <jammcq> but with that website, yer gonna need more than that
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| 11:17 | <jim_k> thanks guys
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| 11:17 | <jammcq> so try increasing swap
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| 11:17 | <sbalneav> That's what will happen, firefox will just die.
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| 11:17 | <jammcq> well, *something* will die
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| 11:18 | <jim_k> will increasing swap help with this ?
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| 11:18 | <jammcq> you HOPE it's firefox
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| 11:18 | yes
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| 11:18 | umm
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| 11:18 | <sbalneav> I'll add this in for gutsy.
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| 11:18 | <jim_k> is there a problem with setting a ridiculous swap size?
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| 11:18 | <jammcq> sbalneav: does that thing look at TOTAL virtual ram? or just physical ram ?
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| 11:18 | * jammcq doesn't remember | |
| 11:18 | * vagrantc proposes X_* for all X related variables | |
| 11:18 | <sbalneav> total, I beleive
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| 11:18 | ok, x_ramperc then.
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| 11:19 | <jammcq> yeah, total
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| 11:19 | <jim_k> when I run free it doesn't show any nbd swap getting used before crashing firefox
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| 11:19 | <vagrantc> ramperc sounds like something you'd have on a castle
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| 11:19 | <sbalneav> lol
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| 11:19 | <vagrantc> man the ramperc's!
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| 11:19 | <jammcq> jim_k: how much physical ram do you have?
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| 11:19 | <sbalneav> rampercentage is what it's supposed to stand for.
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| 11:20 | <jim_k> physical is 128MB
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| 11:20 | I have a 512MB stick for testing
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| 11:20 | but the 128 is in right now
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| 11:20 | <sbalneav> This will help it to "fail" a bit better.
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| 11:21 | <jim_k> say I increase /etc/ltsp/nbdswapd.conf to SIZE=1024....should things run okay?
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| 11:21 | <sbalneav> No idea
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| 11:21 | <jammcq> jim_k: TRY IT
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| 11:21 | <sbalneav> yeah, dude :)
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| 11:21 | <jammcq> you won't break anything
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| 11:21 | at least not permanently
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| 11:22 | <jim_k> will the ramperc option look at total virtual ram, then if there isn't enough just crash the app? It seems like that is what is happening
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| 11:22 | rebooting with SIZE=1024
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| 11:22 | <vagrantc> if you've got 1Gb of extra disk space on your server for each and every client ....
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| 11:22 | <jammcq> jim+kyeah
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| 11:23 | damned dog :)
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| 11:23 | jim_k: yes
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| 11:23 | <jim_k> hard drive space is way cheaper and easier than 108 512MB DDR 400 RAM sticks?
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| 11:23 | <sbalneav> firefox is making memory requests. if it makes one, and the x server tells it "no, I can't allocate that", then firefox dies.
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| 11:23 | <jammcq> it's hard to type when a dog is walking across the back of your hands
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| 11:23 | <jim_k> jammcq...LOL
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| 11:23 | <jammcq> sure would be nice if firefox would fallback gracefully
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| 11:24 | <jim_k> an error saying not enough ram for this site then okay to return to last site would be awesome
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| 11:24 | <jammcq> or just show images as broken images or something
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| 11:24 | <sbalneav> jim_k: That's a firefox bug.
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| 11:24 | <jim_k> anything better than "poof" what happened....stupid linux :-
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| 11:24 | <jammcq> but it's not just images. it's fonts and other things too
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| 11:24 | <sbalneav> file one with them
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| 11:25 | jim_k: Not linux's fault.
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| 11:25 | it's firefoxes fault.
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| 11:25 | <jim_k> I know....but that is what the staff and students will say...not me :-)
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| 11:25 | me knowing what is happening doesn't help their perception
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| 11:25 | all they know is the old mac opened up the site, and the new system doesn't
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| 11:25 | <jammcq> certainly jim_k is on the hook to deliver a working solution. it doesn't really matter to the end user what the details are. if it doesn't work.... it doesn't work
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| 11:26 | <sbalneav> So, then stick with the old macs.
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| 11:26 | <jammcq> add more ram
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| 11:26 | how's the swap=1024 working?
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| 11:26 | <jim_k> sbalneav: I hate macs though :-)
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| 11:26 | <vagrantc> or stick hard drives in your thin clients with huge swap partitions
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| 11:26 | <jim_k> jammcq: loading now
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| 11:28 | massive swap was working, switched to screen1 to check free, swap getting used, switched back and hung
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| 11:28 | I'll try rebooting and loading without the switch to check free
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| 11:28 | <vagrantc> some things can't be swapped out ...
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| 11:28 | unfortunately
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| 11:28 | <jim_k> vagrantc: small notebook drives might be close to the same cost of 512MB ram sticks...hhhmmmm
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| 11:29 | <jammcq> can you put more than 512mb in those thin clients?
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| 11:29 | <jim_k> jammcq: they'll handle a single 2GB stick....but then cost gets to be an issue as well
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| 11:30 | but if things worked for $8,000 more, compared to not working for $8,000 less, might not be all that bad :-)
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| 11:30 | <sbalneav> The $8k you'll make up in reduced maintenance costs.
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| 11:30 | <vagrantc> jim_k: what was the motivation to switch ?
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| 11:31 | <jim_k> vagrantc: cost was part of the motivation (with admin), for me software,administration,and linux freedom is the reason
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| 11:32 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: ok, pushing new rev.
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| 11:32 | ok, I'm off to the beach for the day.
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| 11:32 | I'm afk.
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| 11:32 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: new rev of what where ?
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| 11:32 | <jammcq> beach ?
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| 11:32 | in Canada ?
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| 11:32 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: ltsp
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| 11:33 | a bugfix, and X_RAMPERC
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| 11:33 | off
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| 11:34 | <jim_k> on phone right now....
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| 11:38 | thanks scott
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| 11:56 | <klausade> how is support for audio-cd in ltsp5?
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| 11:57 | <jim_k> opera works perfectly without crashing with no nbd or xramper hacks
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| 11:57 | <jammcq> well
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| 11:57 | there ya go
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| 11:58 | <jim_k> I am going to file a bug report with firefox
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| 11:58 | <jammcq> opera must be better at telling the xserver to free the memory that was requested
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| 11:58 | <jim_k> I'll also look into a hack to disable image caching in firefox
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| 11:58 | <jammcq> jim_k: I'm pretty sure there's already a bug report for that. I think I filed one years ago
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| 11:58 | but search for it
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| 12:03 | <vagrantc> jim_k: image caching in firefox is just on disk, as far as i know
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| 12:04 | <jim_k> vagrantc: does that mean it shouldn't be happening on a thin client
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| 12:04 | <vagrantc> jim_k: yes, it'll be server-side
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| 12:05 | <jammcq> it's not necessarily image caching. when firefox wants to display an image, it sends the image to the Xserver. The xserver allocates memory for it. when the browser is done with that page, it should ask the Xserver to destroy the image object, releasing the memory
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| 12:06 | firefox doesn't do that very well
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| 12:06 | <jim_k> there has to be a way to hack firefox and keep it from doing this, opera seems to have it figured out
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| 12:06 | <vagrantc> jim_k: might try other browsers like epiphany or konqueror and see how they handle the sites
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| 12:06 | <jammcq> when you load a long page, like the link you pasted, there's lots of images. not all are visible on the screen at the same time
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| 12:07 | <jim_k> not only does opera work, but it works way faster
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| 12:07 | <jammcq> firefox sends them ALL to the Xserver in anticipation of you scrolling the page to make them visible
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| 12:07 | <jim_k> vagrantc: turns out opera works flawlessly without the need for xramperc or nbdwap hacks
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| 12:07 | <jammcq> jim_k: in firefox, go to 'about:config'
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| 12:08 | <vagrantc> yes, but opera isn't free software, whereas epiphany and konqueror are
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| 12:08 | <jim_k> firefox acting this way seems pointless, opera isn't doing it and it is faster
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| 12:08 | <jammcq> look at the entry called: browser.cache.memory.enable
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| 12:08 | and try setting that to 'false'
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| 12:08 | see if it makes a difference
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| 12:08 | <jim_k> vagrantc: epiphany, galeon, and firefox all act the same way
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| 12:08 | vagrantc: not saying opera is better, just that it works
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| 12:08 | jammcq: I'll try that
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| 12:09 | <vagrantc> jim_k: try what jammcq says, or try konqueror, which uses an entirely different rendering engine, then
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| 12:09 | <jammcq> jim_k: what's that URL again?
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| 12:09 | <jim_k> I'll try konquerer as wel
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| 12:09 | jammcq: http://www.carteretcountyschools.org/bms/teacherwebs/sdavenport/artgallery6.htm
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| 12:11 | <jammcq> hmm, that setting doesn't seem to matter
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| 12:11 | <jim_k> how about browser.cache.disk.capacity set lower than 50000?
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| 12:12 | <vagrantc> disk has nothing to do with it
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| 12:12 | <jammcq> yeah, that's server side
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| 12:12 | <jim_k> yep...still froze :-)
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| 12:13 | was on the phone with Robert Arkiletian....he has a version of TeacherTool almost ready for Edubuntu
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| 12:13 | <jammcq> so, maybe your solution for next week is Opera
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| 12:14 | <jim_k> for now...yes...definitely opera...but I sure would like to find a solution to get firefox to work, I'm sure others would appreciate it
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| 12:14 | especially since firefox is the default in edubuntu
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| 12:15 | fernando1 has quit IRC | |
| 12:15 | <jim_k> clients hard crashing with random web searching just isn't a good thing, especially when it doesn't have to happen
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| 12:16 | firefox will be removed for now on Tuesday and Opera will be the new default.....thanks again sbalnaev,jammcq,vagrantc for the help
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| 12:16 | <vagrantc> people have been talking about these sorts of bugs in firefox for years...
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| 12:16 | <jim_k> this is why linux and ltsp rock
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| 12:17 | less talk...more action :-)
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| 12:17 | <vagrantc> for whatever reason, it's not a priority to get them fixed
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| 12:17 | <jim_k> so the firefox developers don't see ltsp as a priority huh?
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| 12:17 | <Q-FUNK> I really hope that gnome adopts webkit for the next iteration of epiphany.
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| 12:17 | <vagrantc> maybe someone could get it fixed in iceweasel, and then iceweasel puts the pressure on
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| 12:17 | <jammcq> jim_k: no, they see Windows as a priority
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| 12:18 | <jim_k> jammcq: fools
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| 12:18 | <rcy> jim_k: I met Robert A. at freegeek the other night... looking forward to seeing his TeacherTool on our debian ltsp soon
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| 12:18 | <Q-FUNK> jammcq: if even that. to quote sabdfl: the problem is that developers are only willing to scratch THEIR itch.
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| 12:18 | <jim_k> rcy: TeacherTool is awesome
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| 12:18 | <vagrantc> rcy: you from freegeek vancouver ?
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| 12:19 | <rcy> yeah, i actually havent seen it yet, but how robert described it, i was really stoked
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| 12:19 | vagrantc: yes
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| 12:19 | <vagrantc> i gotta get up there sometime
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| 12:19 | <rcy> vagrantc: yes! david and I wanted to come down to portland again soon, but we cant find the time to get away
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| 12:19 | <jim_k> I'm going to send Robert A. Scott's client shutdown hacks to see if he can incorporate a way to shut down clients in TeacherTool
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| 12:20 | <vagrantc> rcy: so you're using debian's ltsp ? from etch, or with the backports ?
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| 12:20 | <Q-FUNK> jammcq: my perception is that even windows is not a priority to them. geting their pet features is.
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| 12:20 | <rcy> vagrantc: debian etch, ltsp 4.2. i really had know idea what i was doing when i installed it... differences in versions etc, but its going pretty well, all in all
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| 12:20 | * vagrantc pouts | |
| 12:21 | <jammcq> vagrantc: I thought you were a fedora dev now
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| 12:21 | <vagrantc> jammcq: pfft
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| 12:21 | <rcy> I want to find some servers to experiment with 5, and *ubuntu
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| 12:21 | though, robert sorta scared me away from 5
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| 12:21 | <mistik1> hey fellas
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| 12:22 | <vagrantc> rcy: yeah, well, you've got one of the most active LTSP5 developers in the freegeek community... :)
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| 12:22 | <jim_k> rcy: I think ltsp5 is awesome, but different from 4.2....Robert has tweaked on 4.2 for years and the change is a little scary for him I think
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| 12:23 | <rcy> the biggest thing he said was that the way that 5 does the communication with the clients (ie not xdmcp as I understand it) introduces a lot of latency in the user interface
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| 12:23 | you need much much bigger thinclients
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| 12:23 | <vagrantc> that's optional now
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| 12:24 | it's still the default, but turning it off is a simple configuration option
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| 12:24 | <rcy> right, which i think he also mentioned...
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| 12:24 | <mistik1> jammcq: WOuld it be posible to open that imap port to my current IP sir?
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| 12:24 | <jim_k> rcy: now with the option of LDM_DIRECTX in ldm I think it is just as responsive as 4.2
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| 12:25 | <rcy> what is the best thing to install for ltsp 5? ubuntu, edubuntu, debian?
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| 12:25 | <jammcq> mistik1: sure, just give me the details
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| 12:25 | <vagrantc> rcy: edubuntu includes it as part of the default server install ...
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| 12:25 | <rcy> vagrantc: who is the LTSP 5 dev in vancouver?
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| 12:25 | <jim_k> rcy: I have been very happy with the ease of Edubuntu
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| 12:25 | <mistik1> jammcq: 67.82.199.211
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| 12:25 | <rcy> edubuntu, ok... ill test drive that on another server one of these days
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| 12:26 | <vagrantc> rcy: sorry, i was referring to myself being an active LTSP5 developer in the freegeek community ... not vancouver
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| 12:26 | <jim_k> rcy: I think you'll like what you find :-)
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| 12:26 | <jammcq> mistik1: ok, give that a try
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| 12:26 | <vagrantc> rcy: but if you prefer debian or plain ubuntu, it's not difficult to set up
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| 12:26 | <rcy> vagrantc: ah right, you clearly said that... i misread
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| 12:26 | <vagrantc> rcy: easy to do ...
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| 12:26 | talk to y'all later
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| 12:27 | gotta go get thrown around some :)
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| 12:27 | vagrantc has quit IRC | |
| 12:27 | <mistik1> jammcq: says LOGIN disabled by server
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| 12:27 | <jammcq> huh?
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| 12:27 | <mistik1> lemme go over what I had setup in the client
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| 12:28 | <rcy> vagrantc: i dont prefer one over the other really (I'm a bsd guy), so I want to install the best deb based system for maintaining the lab and providing what we need for our users
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| 12:28 | <jammcq> mistik1: I see you trying
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| 12:28 | rcy: vagrant has left the building
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| 12:29 | <rcy> the biggest holes in the current system is lack of get local disk access (usb keys, cdrom/rw) and better management of guest accounts
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| 12:29 | <mistik1> jammcq: This stupid client keeps looping
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| 12:29 | <rcy> jammcq: i should do the same
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| 12:30 | ari_stress has quit IRC | |
| 12:35 | <mistik1> jammcq: close the port again for a minute
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| 12:35 | so I can config kmail without it going nuts
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| 12:36 | <jammcq> ok, closed
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| 13:09 | <jim_k> it appears the olpc guys ran into the pixmap problem in firefox as well...looking to see if they found a fix
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| 15:25 | <multik> hi there sbalneav :)
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| 15:25 | Q-FUNK, greetings :)
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| 20:30 | <ccjoe> I am trying to get LTSP 5 working on Ubuntu 7.04, the client comes up to the login screen but I am unable to login. It looks like it is attempting to login to the client instead of the server. Any ideas?
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| 20:30 | <ari_stress> morning
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| 21:21 | <sbalneav> ccjoe: You probably need to do an ltsp-update-sshkeys
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| 21:22 | <ccjoe> ok, I'll try it
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| 21:29 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: please merge my switch back to using the debian logo in the debian theme: http://llama.freegeek.org/~vagrant/bzr/ltsp/ubuntu/vagrant-gutsy
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| 21:33 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: Done, pushing
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| 21:34 | vagrantc: Pushed.
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| 21:39 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: thanks. i like when i'm booting a debian LTSP for the debian logo to show up :) (vs. edubuntu)
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| 21:39 | <sbalneav> Hmm
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| 21:39 | I'm trying to get the workstation to come up with a proper hostname.
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| 21:40 | got a sec?
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| 21:40 | <vagrantc> sure
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| 21:40 | is /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/hostname present ?
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| 21:40 | <sbalneav> yes
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| 21:40 | <vagrantc> what's in there ?
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| 21:40 | <sbalneav> edubuntu
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| 21:40 | I've got get-lease-hostnames true; in my dhcpd.conf
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| 21:41 | <vagrantc> remove the hostname file ... maybe that'll work
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| 21:41 | <sbalneav> and I've got all the hostnamed defined in /etc/hosts
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| 21:41 | hm
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| 21:41 | <vagrantc> or: echo > hostname
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| 21:42 | if there's anything in /etc/hostname, debian (and presumably ubuntu) will use that as the hostname.
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| 21:42 | <sbalneav> ok
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| 21:42 | I'll try moving it.
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| 21:42 | <vagrantc> there are two long-standing bugs at http://bugs.debian.org/src:ltsp
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| 21:42 | i haven't figured out a good way to fix it.
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| 21:43 | without re-introducing the problem that hostname gets set to "(none)" if there's no DNS
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| 21:43 | * vagrantc sighs | |
| 21:44 | <vagrantc> i was hoping i'd get a chance to test nbdroot and stuff today
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| 21:44 | <sbalneav> If hostname gets set to "(none)", does that bugger something up, or just look bad?
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| 21:44 | <vagrantc> it just looks stupid
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| 21:44 | <sbalneav> That's easy, then
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| 21:45 | <vagrantc> we'd have to have a hook somewhere extremely early in the boot process
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| 21:45 | <sbalneav> we right a plugin to move it out of the way, and then in the setup, just test if it's (none), and if it is, set it to something sensible.
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| 21:45 | <vagrantc> as rcS.d/S02hostname.sh is what sets it
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| 21:46 | yeah, but do we want a whole new init script just to handle that ?
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| 21:46 | <sbalneav> couldn't we just do it later in the process, in the ltsp-client-core script?
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| 21:47 | <vagrantc> then for part of your boot process, you're running as one hostname and switch to another ...
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| 21:47 | so any other init scripts depending on host name might behave strangely
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| 21:48 | <sbalneav> ok, how about putting something in the initramfs to take the passed hostname, and overwrite /etc/hostname?
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| 21:48 | yeah, if I move /etc/hostname to /etc/hostname.old, name gets set properly
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| 21:48 | <vagrantc> that's what ogra proposed
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| 21:49 | actually, if the initramfs just sets hostname and /etc/hostname is removed or empty, that should also work.
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| 21:53 | <sbalneav> Is that something we could do, or would it mean modifying initramfs-tools itself?
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| 21:55 | <vagrantc> initramfs-tools is very flexible ..
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| 21:55 | i suspect we just need the hostname binary in the initramfs
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| 21:56 | <sbalneav> does /proc get mounted in the initramfs?
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| 21:56 | just cat /proc/sys/kernel/hostname?
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| 21:57 | must be, we check /proc/meminfo
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| 22:01 | vagrantc: The initramfs is the one grey area I have, how would we create a plugin for hostname?
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| 22:02 | All we'd have to do is read the hostname from /proc/sys... into a var, and if it's test -n, then mv /etc/hostname to /etc/hostname.old
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| 22:02 | we'd have to do it at the bottom of, or after, nbd root.
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| 22:03 | something in the nfs-bottom series of scripts?
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| 22:06 | <vagrantc> if we can get a sane hostname, let's just avoid /etc/hostname altogether and remove it
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| 22:06 | or zero it out
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| 22:08 | i can't figure out why initramfs-tools isn't including the ltsp-nbd script
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| 22:09 | ah, initramfs-tools uses shell variable names for handling dependencies. Notice that ‘-’ is not a valid shell variable name and thus should not be used as script filename.
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| 22:15 | <sbalneav> So are you doing something on this now?
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| 22:16 | <vagrantc> on what ?
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| 22:16 | i'm trying to get an upload for debian that's synced with ubuntu
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| 22:35 | <vagrantc> seems like it's not waiting for /dev/nbd0 to work
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| 22:35 | <jammcq> why not just set the hostname in dhcpd.conf ?
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| 22:36 | <vagrantc> before trying all sorts of other mounts
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| 22:37 | <sbalneav> jammcq: It is being set there, the problem is, by default, there's an /etc/hostname file in the chroot
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| 22:37 | <vagrantc> jammcq: go for it
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| 22:37 | <sbalneav> and what ends up happening is, if /etc/hostname is there, it ends up overriding the one set by the dhcp info.
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| 22:38 | <jammcq> so make it not be there
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| 22:38 | <sbalneav> Well, the problem is, though, that if dhcpd DOESN'T set one, then you;d like to have a sane default hostname.
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| 22:38 | <jammcq> it looks like the default one contains the same name as the server
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| 22:39 | <sbalneav> So, all we need to do is just check /proc/sys/kernel/hostname in the chroot
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| 22:39 | <jammcq> which doesn't seem sane to me
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| 22:39 | <vagrantc> ok, so nbd-client returns a failure almost instantly.... no nbdroot for me.
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| 22:39 | <sbalneav> if it's been set (by the dhcpd), then just remove /etc/hostname.
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| 22:40 | <jammcq> otherwise default to the hostname of the server?
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| 22:40 | <vagrantc> that'll work for unionfs ...
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| 22:40 | in debian, we feed a default of "ltsp" for the hostname
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| 22:40 | <sbalneav> jammcq: Well, that file just gets filled in on the chroot build.
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| 22:40 | <jammcq> sbalneav: yeah, I understand that. but it seems if you fill it in with the servers hostname, that would be wrong
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| 22:41 | <vagrantc> that's why i fill it in with "ltsp"
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| 22:41 | <sbalneav> Well, at the time you're building the chroot, it's the only hostname you've got.
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| 22:42 | At least if it's the server's hostname, you know which root you've mounted :)
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| 22:42 | <vagrantc> my thoughts: no /etc/hostname at all, initramfs looks for a hostname, and if it doesn't find one, sets it to ... "ltsp"
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| 22:42 | <jammcq> seems like even 'unknown' would be better than copying the server hostname. although vagrantc's "ltsp" seems like the sanest approach to a default hostname
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| 22:42 | <vagrantc> or "default"
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| 22:42 | <jammcq> copying the server hostname will just confuse people
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| 22:43 | <vagrantc> debootstrap is what populates /etc/hostname ... as it probably doesn't assume it's building chroot environment's for other machines
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| 22:43 | <sbalneav> I don't care about a default if dhcp's not issuing a hostname: it's a garbage default at that point. What I'm trying to solve is that it's not being set EVEN IF the dhcp server's passing it.
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| 22:44 | <jammcq> 2 issues then
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| 22:44 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: and i'm telling you, remove /etc/hostname, or zero it out. and it will use the dhcp server's passed values.
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| 22:44 | so
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| 22:44 | <jammcq> if dhcp issues a hostname, use it. if not, provide a sane default
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| 22:44 | <vagrantc> like jammcq says
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| 22:45 | <sbalneav> I'll let someone else solve the sane default.
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| 22:45 | <vagrantc> i think the zero'd out /etc/hostname is the best approach
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| 22:46 | solved
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| 22:46 | if [ '(none)' = "$(cat /proc/sys/kernel/hostname)" ]; then ; echo ltsp > /proc/sys/kernel/hostname ; fi
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| 22:46 | YAY!
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| 22:46 | i can close two bugs with that!
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| 22:47 | <jammcq> nice
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| 22:47 | <vagrantc> that's assuming that that gets set from dhcp
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| 22:51 | * vagrantc tries it | |
| 22:52 | <vagrantc> gah
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| 22:52 | doesn't seem to work
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| 22:54 | well, at least, not with a typo
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| 23:03 | ok, so the trick works. just need to figure out where to hook it in
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| 23:04 | <sbalneav> are you removing /etc/hostname as well?
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| 23:04 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: thanks for pointing out /proc/sys/kernel/hostname :)
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| 23:04 | sbalneav: after i get that patch working smoothly, yes.
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| 23:04 | sbalneav: well, i prefer to zero it out, actually.
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| 23:04 | makes it easier to bind-mount it if we have to
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| 23:07 | <ltsppbot> "sbalneav" pasted "while read HOSTNAME; do if [ "" (6 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/299
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| 23:07 | <ccjoe> sbalneav, ltsp-update-sshkeys didn't help, I thought I might have goofed things up, so I tried a reinstall, it does the same thing - workstation boots but I can't login.
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| 23:07 | <sbalneav> I put that at the bottom of ltsp-nbd
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| 23:08 | <jammcq> would /etc/hostname ever contain more than one line?
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| 23:08 | <sbalneav> no
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| 23:08 | <jammcq> would it ever contain ZERO lines ?
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| 23:09 | <sbalneav> it will be "(none)" if not set
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| 23:09 | <jammcq> why the 'while' ?
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| 23:10 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: did you try it ?
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| 23:10 | <sbalneav> yup
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| 23:10 | ws250 if hostnames set
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| 23:10 | ltsp if not
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| 23:11 | <vagrantc> i was thinking we could put it into nfs-bottom, so it would work with both scripts
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| 23:11 | <sbalneav> jammcq: because, read FOO < /some/file doesn't work for some odd reason.
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| 23:11 | vagrantc: right, that's what I don't know, is where to stick it.
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| 23:11 | <vagrantc> my code is only 3 lines :P
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| 23:11 | <jammcq> but ' $(cat /etc/hostname) shouljd do the trick
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| 23:11 | <vagrantc> but for some reason, nfs-bottom wasn't running
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| 23:12 | <sbalneav> mine doesn't call anything external to the shell.
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| 23:12 | <jammcq> although /me is still used to `cat /etc/hostname` syntax
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| 23:12 | old school I guess
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| 23:12 | <sbalneav> uhh, jammcq, it was you and I who were doing the read syntax to eliminate external program calls.
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| 23:13 | <jammcq> heh
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| 23:13 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: there's no need to write to /etc/hostname
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| 23:13 | <sbalneav> remember all that optimization we did?
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| 23:13 | <jammcq> seems like there should be a clearer way to suck in a file
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| 23:13 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: then won't the init script just set hostname to what's in /etc/hostname if it's there.
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| 23:14 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: which should be empty
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| 23:14 | <sbalneav> Jeez, I can't seem to do anything right tonight.
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| 23:14 | <jammcq> if 'while' is the most effecient, then might as well use it. it just implies a variable number of records when I look at it
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| 23:14 | <sbalneav> I'll go back to doco.
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| 23:14 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: we can: echo > $ROOT/etc/hostname
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| 23:14 | in ltsp-build-client
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| 23:16 | <jammcq> ahhhhh, you are reading /proc/sys/kernel/hostname, not /etc/hostname
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| 23:33 | <dr_byson> who a install ltsp in archlinux ?
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| 23:46 | <vagrantc> ah, executable bit.
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| 23:46 | yet, let's drop it in nfs-bottom
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| 23:47 | sbalneav: i'll commit this for debian, at least.
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| 23:54 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: Pushed yet?
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| 23:55 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i'm adding it in my other branches first
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