IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 25 January 2013 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:46 | <vidd> does ubuntu 12.10 have a method to install ltsp?
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| 02:46 | they seam to have gotten rid of the alt cd
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| 05:10 | <Fuzaituo> Has anyone ever attempted dmx http://dmx.sourceforge.net/ with ltsp terminals?
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| 06:43 | <intestino> hi, all
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| 06:43 | i'm from Indonesia and i'm new to LTSP
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| 06:43 | i want use LTSP with ubuntu 12.04
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| 06:43 | could someone give good reference for it?
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| 11:58 | <vnc786> plz share some links or notes of detail LTSP working boot process, imp files etc
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| 11:59 | looking to study more on LTSP ...any help.... appreciate it !!!
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| 12:00 | <muppis> http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/LTSPedia
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| 12:00 | <Hyperbyte> vnc786, you need to be more specific if you want clearer answers than that. :-)
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| 12:03 | <vnc786> Hyperbyte: to be more specific let say i want to know behaviour of chroot
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| 12:05 | <vnc786> i got question if LTSP is in chroot than how it is accessing home folder of server (in my case i have installed ubunut12.04) basicly chroot means it will not go beyond wat we chroot
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| 12:06 | <muppis> In general chroot is minimal installation which is loaded over network and connects to server X session to provide resources and programs running at server.
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| 12:07 | As default thin client there's no other local resources used than graphics, soundcard, keyboard and poiting device.
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| 12:12 | <vnc786> muppis: right now i am not facing any issue but was thing that if we have old+ new machines (fat clients) if some machines are having display drivers issue so can we install driver for that particular board
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| 12:13 | <muppis> Sure thing. You may need make a specific chroot for it then.
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| 12:21 | <vnc786> Hyperbyte: muppis: thankyou
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| 12:21 | <JuJuBee> I need help. I have an app that my students require that I cannot get working in the image... I just installed it on the server and ran fine. When I try to run from client from GUI, the icon looks as if it is loading, but nothing appears and no instance of the software is running when I ps aux... When I run from CLI, it says it is starting then I get prompt back unexpectedly.
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| 12:24 | <Hyperbyte> JuJuBee, sounds like the application is exiting somehow without a useful error message
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| 12:25 | This is where 'strace' probably comes in handy. :)
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| 12:26 | It'll tell you exactly what the program is doing on your system... will probably be a lot of output, but if you check out the last bits of the output, seeing which things it did last before it stops, will probably be informative.
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| 12:27 | <JuJuBee> I will try that...
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| 12:34 | Hyperbyte: WOW, don't understand any of it... http://pastebin.com/KNgBmhVP
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| 12:37 | <Hyperbyte> write(1, "/opt/pt533/bin /opt/pt533\n", 26) = 26
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| 12:37 | After that it seems to quit
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| 12:37 | That might be a big hint.
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| 12:37 | <Hyperbyte> It's trying to create bin in '/opt/pt533/' and failing, I *think*
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| 12:38 | But then again, this looks to me about the same as it does to you.
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| 12:47 | <JuJuBee> Yea, it means nothing to me... Thanks for looking though.
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| 12:50 | If I build a new image now that this app is on the server and working, will the app be included in the image or just the base OS?
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| 12:53 | <[GuS]> knipwim: Hi! are you there?
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| 13:03 | <Hyperbyte> JuJuBee, I don't understand.
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| 13:03 | Are you running regular LTSP of LTSP-PNP?
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| 13:09 | <JuJuBee> Hyperbyte: regular
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| 13:09 | The program has a CLI installer (really just copies files to the destination folder)
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| 13:10 | I even tried copying a working copy of program from the server into chroot and update-image...
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| 13:20 | <sha__> hey guys, i need help with shutting down ltsp fat clients on ubuntu 12.04. i tried many workarounds, but so far only "poweroff -pf" works. i'm not sure if it's safe to use this, but how is it possible to use this command for ltsp shutdown? i grepped for poweroff and found /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/X99-zzz-logout-action and /usr/share/ltsp/screen-session.d/XS00-halt-reboot, so i replaced poweroff with poweroff -fp and rebuilt the image, but still the clien
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| 13:39 | <Hyperbyte> sha__, what exactly happens when you shut down the fat clients the regular way?
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| 13:40 | JuJuBee, with ltsp-pnp, chroots are built from the server's OS. Meaning, if you install something on the server, and update the image, you'll have it on the clients as well.
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| 13:41 | With regular ltsp, you'll have to seperately install it in the chroot. The chroot won't be affected by changes on the server.
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| 13:42 | JuJuBee, what about my earlier remark, about the /opt/pt533/bin write?
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| 13:44 | <JuJuBee> Don't know, the dir permissions are same in chroot as they are on server....
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| 13:45 | Don't see why there would be issue writing there
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| 13:46 | <sha__> Hyperbyte: it looks pretty much like this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ldm/+bug/457702 (many "squashfs error unable to read...")
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| 13:46 | the bugreport is from 2009, but apparently at least one person has this problem too with ubuntu 12.04 (last comment)
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| 13:47 | <sha__> Hyperbyte: ironically, a comment says: "This patch fixed the problem. It adds -f also to poweroff just in case" this is what i'm trying to force
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| 13:56 | <sha__> Hyperbyte: when i'm doing shutdown -h now from commandline, after "SysReq: Power Off" comes many "SQUASHFS error: unable to read metadata cache entry" "block nbd0: attempted send on closed socket" "end_request: I/O error, dev nbd0, ..." "squashfs_read_data failed"
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| 13:57 | when i'm waiting long enough, "INFO: task kworker/0:1:11 blocked for more than 120 seconds." and a message howto disable this (already tried that)
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| 13:58 | i'm assuming after "SysReq: Power Off" the machine should simply power off
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| 13:58 | <knipwim> [GuS]: hey
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| 14:00 | <Hyperbyte> JuJuBee, don't just check the chroot, check the client that you're launching the program on
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| 14:00 | <[GuS]> knipwim: Hi! Just to tell you that i've installed latest ltsp on Gentoo, and the client does not boot right. So, what i saw in first place is that xorg drivers is installed but with no drivers on it. So, recompiled inside chroot and works. But when starts with XDMCP just nothin appears. It does with LDM, but in both case i dont have keyboard or mouse control
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| 14:01 | <knipwim> you have input drivers in the chroot?
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| 14:02 | <[GuS]> yep, reistalled also.
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| 14:02 | just in case
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| 14:03 | also, when booting, some udev errors appears
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| 14:03 | Is a fresh host server and fresh ltsp install... so, is weird.
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| 14:03 | Also, had to fix gcc profile
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| 14:03 | in chroot
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| 14:03 | <knipwim> the gentoo stage3 is really outdated
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| 14:03 | <[GuS]> But that one i think is a gentoo bug
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| 14:03 | yeah...
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| 14:04 | <knipwim> they have the old gcc
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| 14:04 | <[GuS]> yep
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| 14:04 | <knipwim> also, i defaulted to no video drivers
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| 14:04 | for ltsp
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| 14:04 | <[GuS]> Ahh oks
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| 14:04 | So i must specidy in the ltsp-client-build conf ?
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| 14:04 | specify*
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| 14:04 | <knipwim> https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=177580#c187
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| 14:05 | <[GuS]> Right
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| 14:06 | Also, i cant enable ssh... it keeps telling me that depends on non existing net.
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| 14:06 | which i think the udev errors are cause of that too
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| 14:06 | <knipwim> hmm
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| 14:07 | thx for the reminder
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| 14:07 | i just removed the depends from the ssh service to make it work
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| 14:07 | and forgot about solving it :)
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| 14:07 | <[GuS]> :P
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| 14:08 | Great, thanks. Meanwhile i am trying to use a old chroot i had over there
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| 14:08 | <knipwim> i didn't solve anything yet though ;)
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| 14:09 | <[GuS]> :D
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| 14:09 | Thanks in advance then hehe
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| 14:10 | I video drivers manner, i just read the bug report of LTSP the other day, but undertood wrong. So, good to know now.
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| 14:11 | <knipwim> you still use ltsp-client 5.2 ?
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| 14:11 | <[GuS]> Nope, just installed latest of both
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| 14:11 | But meanwhile, i will use a old chroot, which i think has 5.2
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| 14:12 | <knipwim> kk
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| 14:24 | <JuJuBee> Hyperbyte: that output was from a client computer when I tried to run the program
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| 14:48 | <markit> any squid expert here? I've set it up as transparent proxy and works fine
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| 14:49 | but now I need authentication for some hosts outside ltsp but that are in the same lan and use ltsp server as gateway
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| 14:49 | and seems that authentication can't work with transparent mode...
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| 14:51 | <otwieracz> „transparent” and „authenticated” sounds… weird.
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| 14:53 | <markit> otwieracz: well, should be like "I intercept your access, if you are not authenticated you are rejected"
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| 14:53 | <markit> otwieracz: even if in transparent, squid acl are working, so some control is done for sure
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| 14:54 | <markit> if not transparent, I should setup every user's browser to use it, right?
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| 14:54 | <otwieracz> I think.
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| 14:54 | But I'm do not have squid knowledge.
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| 14:55 | <JuJuBee> markit: transparent won't work with authentication
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| 14:56 | You can use simple auth and create their passwords then require them to use the proxy by blocking everything unless it passes through the proxy
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| 14:57 | <markit> JuJuBee: 6-10 years old children
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| 14:57 | <markit> or dumb teachers
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| 14:58 | <markit> so I should setup Firfox globally to use proxy, if is possible/reliable/does not break at every update
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| 14:58 | but I would love not to do
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| 14:58 | <JuJuBee> I have used this scenario at my house when my children were that age.
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| 14:59 | What are you attempting to do?
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| 14:59 | Why do you need authentication then?
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| 14:59 | <markit> it's not me really, is a "friend" of mine, I helped him to setup ltsp, things went very good but the "chief" of the schools now wants:
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| 15:00 | <JuJuBee> So who will be using authentication? Teachers?
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| 15:00 | <markit> a) log some pc, that are in the ltsp client subnet but are not ltsp clients. He wants to keep navigation log for 2-3 years
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| 15:00 | b) forbit their navigation if not authenticated, so the logs will have the username (hope squid saves it too)
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| 15:00 | <JuJuBee> So he *wants* to have the username saved with the request...
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| 15:00 | <markit> ltsp clients will not need authentication, since they will be used during lessons and the teacher is responsable
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| 15:01 | JuJuBee: yep, I've been told that some years ago someone used school internet to do some weird stuff
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| 15:01 | <JuJuBee> I see. Well if he wants auth, then it is all or nothing...
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| 15:01 | <markit> and police went there to investigate
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| 15:01 | JuJuBee: I've seen that in squid you can set acl also for IP range
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| 15:02 | like acl labor1 src 192.168.10.30-192.168.10.45
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| 15:02 | so would be possible to set a rule to make an authentication request only for that range, I guess
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| 15:03 | I'm a trained monkey not a squid expert, and so far I've only set it up as transparent proxy to alleviate bandwidth problems of schools
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| 15:03 | first time I face this request/issue
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| 15:03 | but since ltsp is used in schools, maybe this is a good place where ask :)
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| 15:05 | <JuJuBee> markit: yes, ip range works, but if you use auth, then everyone has to use it.
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| 15:33 | <Hyperbyte> Squid cannot work transparently with authentication?
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| 15:33 | <Hyperbyte> I'm not sure if that's true. I know it can't work transparently with https, for obvious reasons, but for regular http it should work.
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| 15:34 | Transparent proxies aren't very desirable though, for the exact reason that https won't work.
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| 15:53 | <||cw> you mean proxy auth? no, you cant do that with transparent since the briwser doens't know that it needs to send proxy auth
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| 15:53 | browser doens't know it's being proxied at all
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| 15:54 | transparent proxy is really only good for caching.
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| 16:31 | <JuJuBee> Hyperbyte: any suggestions as to my problem getting my app to work? If I can't get it working then this is all for nothing... We use it every day.
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| 16:46 | <||cw> JuJuBee: what's the permissions on /dev/tty ?
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| 16:48 | <||cw> JuJuBee: also, ./packettracer is a shell script? try stracing the actual binary it runs instead
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| 17:19 | <JuJuBee> ||cw: /dev/tty on server or in chroot?
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| 17:19 | <||cw> on whatever the app run
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| 17:19 | though that may just be bash/dash/sh since it seems that's what you traced
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| 17:20 | <JuJuBee> ||cw: perms on /dev/tty in chroot : crw-rw-rw- 1 root tty 5, 0 Jan 15 14:41 tty
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| 17:20 | <||cw> still, that seems to be a strace of the shell script. strace the actual binary
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| 17:24 | <JuJuBee> Strange, I am in the folder where the binary exists and can see it. It is owned by root but group and world have r-x. When I try ./PacketTracer5 it says No such file or directory.
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| 17:24 | * JuJuBee has to step out but will be back soon | |
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| 17:39 | <Hyperbyte> JuJuBee, I'm sure we can get the app working
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| 17:39 | Trouble is, I'm lauching a new website tomorrow, big formal thing... very nice actually
| |
| 17:39 | But it means I'm terribly busy...
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| 17:39 | I could log in again next week, so we can look at it together
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| 17:44 | <||cw> JuJuBee: that's why you need to trace. I've seen some apps assume that they are bing run from ../, like ./bin/PacketTracer5
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| 17:44 | and when you don't, they freak
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| 17:44 | <JuJuBee> Hyperbyte: I will be in Monday Morning at 7:00am EST and will log into #ltsp
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| 17:45 | ||cw: I understand, just weird that it says it is not there, but it clearly is..
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| 17:45 | <||cw> does bash say it's not there, or does it say that it's not there?
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| 17:45 | like, the whole messge
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| 17:47 | <JuJuBee> bash says so
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| 17:47 | <||cw> and it's rwxr-xr-x ?
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| 17:48 | <JuJuBee> yes
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| 17:49 | <muppis> Is it same arch as system?
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| 17:49 | <JuJuBee> yes
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| 17:49 | amd64
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| 17:57 | <||cw> selinux or something restricting /opt ?
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| 18:41 | <JuJuBee> I do not know
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| 18:47 | doesn't look like selinux is installed? cat /etc/sysconfig/selinux -> cat: /etc/sysconfig/selinux: No such file or directory
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| 19:07 | <[GuS]> knipwim: is there any way to configure LDM greeter language?
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| 19:10 | I've tried but with no results
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| 19:12 | <vagrantc> setting LANG in lts.conf should do it.
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| 19:32 | <[GuS]> LANG? I just set LDM_LANGUAGE but thats for X session.
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| 19:33 | Since greeter still in english...
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| 19:59 | <Mip5> Hey Gang - I need to run firefox for windows on my thin clients for some online testing (NWEA). I've installed wine into the chroot, but can't seem to launch it as a student. Any ideas?
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| 20:00 | <Mip5> The error message I get is that wine isn't installed (not that I don't have permissions to use it). Ubuntu 10.04.4
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| 20:03 | Okay - I must have failed to install it in the OS (but did it in the chroot). Installing it now.
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| 20:06 | <vagrantc> yes, LDM_LANGUAGE sets the locale for the session, and LANG sets the locale for the greeter...
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| 20:06 | if [GuS] were still here, anyways...
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| 21:32 | <Enslaver> Anyone awake? I've been working on the port for LTSP to RHEL, trying not to take from the Fedora/K12linux and just start fresh. Base LTSP and only incorporate what is needed. I also wanted make it more standardized and updated so i've been trying to build the latest SL linux 6.3 for the client. The problem that I am getting is that when the terminal boots it keeps complaining about read only filesystem
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| 21:33 | <vagrantc> the initramfs needs to mount an overlay/union filesystem of some sort
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| 21:33 | or tmpfs mounts all over the place
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| 21:34 | <Enslaver> so fstab needs to be modified pre-boot?
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| 21:35 | or is that done dynamically through scripts?
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| 21:37 | I guess I'm unsure of where the script is that generates the fstab for the client
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| 21:42 | <vagrantc> it's usually done dynamically
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| 21:42 | well, typically, it just mounts the rootfs as a union of a tmpfs and the NBD/NFS root.
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| 21:43 | in the initramfs
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| 21:58 | <Enslaver> Wouldn't it be much much easier to just deploy client images versus having the end user install an entire other OS?
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| 21:58 | <Mip5> Hi - so for this online testing (NWEA), we need firefox and flash. It turns out that it won't work on linux, but does work if I run it under wine. What's the best way to install firefox for windows (with flash) for my 35 users in my ltsp environment? I've got both a 12.04.1 install and a 10.04.4 install. Thanks in advance
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| 21:58 | | |
| 21:58 | <Enslaver> Mip5: we use crossover linux for our employee's, works fairly well and they just released a new version
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| 21:59 | its basically wine with a gui and support
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| 21:59 | <Mip5> I've never used that. So - I'd install that just like installing any other software, and the users would get it?
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| 22:00 | <Enslaver> it is a front-end that lets the users install windows programs themselfs
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| 22:04 | <Mip5> okay - yeah, I don't think that's the way we'd like to do this. It seems like I should just be able to install it the way we normally install software for users.
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| 22:04 | <||cw> it's more than a front end. it's also a collection of tweaks and some custom libraries
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| 22:05 | Mip5: still doens't work even if you modify the browser agent string to say it's windows?
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| 22:11 | <Mip5> ||cw - that was the first thing I tried, though maybe I didn't try hard enough. I used a useragent addon for firefox
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| 22:11 | <||cw> sites like that suck.
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| 22:12 | <vagrantc> Enslaver: sorry, i had to duck out for a bit ... did you figure out the next things you needed?
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| 22:14 | <Enslaver> yes
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| 22:14 | Well, I'm on the trail
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| 22:14 | ls
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| 22:14 | the initramfs was never generated
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| 22:15 | <vagrantc> that'd do it
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| 22:15 | <Enslaver> the previous coders did it as a ltsp-build-client call
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| 22:16 | <vagrantc> it's not just part of the kernel package installation?
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| 22:18 | <Enslaver> only the initrd is made it seems from the kernel package
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| 22:19 | <vagrantc> does redhat distinguish between initrd and initramfs?
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| 22:20 | <Enslaver> I've never used initramfs
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| 22:21 | Debian i believe moved to that fairly quickly
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| 22:22 | <vagrantc> long enough ago i can barely remember using a true initrd... maybe 2005?
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| 22:23 | <Enslaver> Thats long ago? :(
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| 22:23 | I have leftover pizza from then
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| 22:23 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 22:24 | well, it's before ltsp5 was called ltsp5, at least.
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| 22:24 | and i didn't get involved in ltsp till the muekow stuff that became ltsp5
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| 22:24 | <Enslaver> dracut is what makes the initramfs correct?
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| 22:25 | <vagrantc> that's the way it's going
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| 22:25 | <Enslaver> So it appears red hat has adopted that, I'm curious why i see no initramfs images though
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| 22:27 | I suppose i can make them myself
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| 22:27 | <vagrantc> debian will likely switch to dracut after the current development release gets released.
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| 22:27 | though right now it uses initramfs-tools.
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| 22:29 | <Enslaver> So how can we make this standard across all variants?
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| 22:29 | .
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| 22:30 | <vagrantc> which initramfs generator to use?
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| 22:30 | <Enslaver> Or why even use one
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| 22:31 | * vagrantc would rather use an initramfs that a custom-built kernel. | |
| 22:31 | <Enslaver> Why not deploy the client as a whole rather than the end user having to install a complete other os in a chroot
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| 22:31 | <vagrantc> and NBD needs userspace tools, so if you want NBD root, you'd need an initramfs
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| 22:31 | "as a whole" ?
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| 22:32 | <Enslaver> I'm not saying get rid of initramfs
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| 22:32 | Yes, get rid of ltsp-build-client all together and go with the concept like which 4.2 had
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| 22:32 | <vagrantc> because LTSP developers couldn't support that long-term.
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| 22:33 | <Enslaver> nothing is supported long term I'm afraid
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| 22:33 | but at least with custom built client images you know them and use them yourself. I feel that would be easier to support, especially in a corporate enviornment
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| 22:33 | <vagrantc> well, the idea behind LTSP5 was to build an LTSP environment out of a pre-existing distro, inherriting the package availablility, security updates, etc. of the host distro.
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| 22:34 | !muekow
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| 22:34 | <ltsp> muekow: MueKow represents the future of LTSP. Using the packages available in the distribution, an LTSP client is build locally, and supported by the distribution. You can see the future at: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/MueKow
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| 22:35 | <vagrantc> heh, that URL is outdated...
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| 22:35 | Enslaver: essentially, most distros were not including LTSP because it was essentially it's own operating system.
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| 22:36 | and supporting local apps, fat clients, etc. was theoretically possible, but an ordeal
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| 22:37 | LTSP5 allows LTSP to not re-invent the wheel of a whole OS, and we can focus on the individual parts that distinguish LTSP
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| 22:38 | !ltsp5
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| 22:38 | <ltsp> ltsp5: ltsp5 is The next version of LTSP, and the future of Thin Client computing on GNU/Linux. http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Ltsp5
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| 22:38 | <vagrantc> as is that one...
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| 22:39 | <Enslaver> Then why pull from repo's to build the client? why not use the host's own binaries and packages?
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| 22:40 | <vagrantc> well, that idea is essentially ltsp-pnp
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| 22:40 | which is integrated in ltsp-trunk
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| 22:40 | but the reasons not to could be different host and client hardware architecture, different packages installed...
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| 22:41 | <Enslaver> another ubuntu-centric based project i see
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| 22:41 | <vagrantc> ?
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| 22:41 | <Enslaver> ltsp-pnp
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| 22:42 | <vagrantc> works on debian too
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| 22:42 | there's nothing fundamentally ubuntu about it...
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| 22:42 | the concept could be implemented on any distro that runs LTSP
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| 22:43 | but the distro it was implemented first was ubuntu
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| 22:43 | <Enslaver> work on RH? centos? Suse? Alt?
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| 22:43 | <vagrantc> Enslaver: i thought that's why you're here...
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| 22:44 | Enslaver: to get LTSP to work on RH ?
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| 22:44 | Enslaver: do you expect all LTSP developers to develop all ideas and all concepts on all distros?
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| 22:44 | <Enslaver> I'm trying, but my goal will be to make it non-distro centric
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| 22:45 | <vagrantc> so, typically, someone gets an idea, they develop a proof of concept, and if other distros like it, they implement what's needed to get it working on their distro
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| 22:46 | the goal with LTSP5 was to get developers from each distro contributing to LTSP and sharing their code in a common repository, diverging where necessary by the nature of the differences in host distros...
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| 22:48 | given that LTSP is essentially booting an operating system, there's not really always a totally distro-agnostic way to handle everything.
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| 22:48 | <Enslaver> There has to be a more standardized way for these packages to be deployed, The LSB project is a start and thats the direction i'd like to head towards. When I go to install a linux project I don't want to have to worry about which distro its for
| |
| 22:49 | <vagrantc> sure, you can make LSB compliant OSes, but there is no LSB OS. LSB does not spec out every possible bit and byte.
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| 22:49 | <Enslaver> and in the future i'd like to see ltsp as a whole going to not only all distro's but also mac/windows as well
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| 22:49 | That means having some sort of busy box environment all packaged in a bundle doing its thing independent from the os
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| 22:50 | <vagrantc> there are projects that do that sort of thing, but it will really limit the flexibility of what it can do.
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| 22:50 | <Enslaver> Then all you need to worry about is the protocol the thin client talks
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| 22:51 | well not if LDM continues on the path its going
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| 22:51 | <vagrantc> sounds more like tcos or pxes.
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| 22:51 | Enslaver: which path is that?
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| 22:52 | <Enslaver> bridging the gap between really thin client and fat client
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| 22:52 | <vagrantc> Enslaver: how will you install firefox in your limited busybox environment?
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| 22:52 | <Enslaver> same way you do localapps/remoteapps
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| 22:52 | <vagrantc> Enslaver: so how do you maintain dependencies?
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| 22:52 | <Enslaver> package management
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| 22:53 | <vagrantc> Enslaver: and what package management system will you use?
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| 22:53 | <Enslaver> dpkg/rpm based
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| 22:53 | <vagrantc> what about ebuilds?
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| 22:53 | or pacman?
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| 22:53 | <Enslaver> heck, apt was ported to most all distros
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| 22:54 | pacman?
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| 22:54 | I already beat that game :)
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| 22:54 | <vagrantc> it's a package manager for some distro
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| 22:54 | <Enslaver> if its self contained why would we need more than 1?
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| 22:55 | lemme ask you something vagrant
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| 22:55 | <vagrantc> Enslaver: i guess what i'm getting at, is how will you manage these busybox environments? why not just use what already exists (apt/yum/rpm/dpkg/FOO) to manage it in ways people have already sorted out?
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| 22:55 | <Enslaver> Would you ever like to see the developers of ltsp make any profit?
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| 22:55 | <vagrantc> and the most thoroughly sorted out way to handle that is using the tools to build an OS that already exists?
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| 22:56 | Enslaver: i've known many LTSP developers who make profit from what they do, but that's besides the point.
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| 22:57 | <otwieracz> Can I somehow access mass storage device connected to thin client USB port?
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| 22:57 | <Enslaver> The only way to do that is to start targeting a more corporate audience. Selling this as a product, not a solution, a stable product.
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| 22:57 | <vagrantc> Enslaver: and people do that using LTSP...
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| 22:58 | <Enslaver> And developing on ubuntu or debian more than likely won't be adopted by corporations.
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| 22:58 | <vagrantc> otwieracz: yes, you want to look at localapps
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| 22:58 | <vagrantc> otwieracz: doh, sorry. localdev
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| 22:58 | <Enslaver> Yes, i'm one of them
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| 22:58 | <vagrantc> !locadev
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| 22:58 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'locadev', but I do know about these similar topics: 'localdev'
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| 22:58 | <vagrantc> !localdev
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| 22:58 | <ltsp> localdev: (#1) for ubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnableLTSP5LocalDevices, or (#2) for debian-edu: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/HowTo/LocalDeviceLtspfs, or (#3) http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev
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| 22:58 | <vagrantc> Enslaver: it already is adopted by corporations.
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| 23:00 | <vagrantc> otwieracz: it's typically enabled by default, look in /media/USERNAME/DEVICENAME
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| 23:00 | <otwieracz> USB storage was example.
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| 23:00 | I want to access more specific USB device.
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| 23:01 | <vagrantc> otwieracz: depends on the device.
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| 23:01 | otwieracz: for anything containing a filesystem, localdev is what's used.
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| 23:01 | <otwieracz> thats modem-like device, AFAIK.
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| 23:01 | Looks like /dev/ttyACM0.
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| 23:01 | <vagrantc> ?
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| 23:02 | otwieracz: for that you would need to run your application locally
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| 23:02 | <Enslaver> Well back to the issue at hand, I guess i'll just use the k12ltsp code
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| 23:02 | <otwieracz> vagrantc: Roger that.
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| 23:02 | <Enslaver> they seem to already have a script that makes the initramfs
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| 23:02 | <vagrantc> otwieracz: so my original typo was actually right on :)
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| 23:02 | !localapps
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| 23:02 | <ltsp> localapps: to access a tutorial on setting up localapps on jaunty, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPLocalAppsJaunty
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| 23:02 | <vagrantc> heh. jaunty.
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| 23:05 | <Enslaver> One design question though, how 'thin' should my goal be? I'd rather a deployment that had a few extra 'niceities'
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| 23:06 | <jammcq> mac/windows as well?
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| 23:07 | <Enslaver> yeah why not, you already have rdesktop abilities
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| 23:07 | plus it'd piss M$ off =0
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| 23:07 | <jammcq> must I remind you what the 'L' in LTSP stands for?
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| 23:07 | <vagrantc> Enslaver: that's kind of your call how thin to make it
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| 23:07 | <Enslaver> and mac's remote desktop is a joke, with the quartz project it wouldn't be difficult
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| 23:07 | <jammcq> LTSP isn't about making money, it's about providing solutions
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| 23:07 | <vagrantc> jammcq: it all started when i tried to port it to Debian GNU/kFreeBSD...
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| 23:08 | jammcq: i thought it was about having fun :P
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| 23:08 | <Enslaver> Theres not a reason you have to move away from the Linux side of it, i was thinking of a mini-virtual emulated linux inside of the OS
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| 23:08 | <jammcq> vagrantc: providing solutions is fun
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| 23:09 | <Enslaver> ok good, give me a solution for this initramfs issue :)
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| 23:09 | <jammcq> i've been out of the game too long to know how to do that on RH
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| 23:09 | <Enslaver> dracut
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| 23:09 | <jammcq> that's why we need the help of the distro people
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| 23:09 | <Enslaver> agreed, but RH has spice in their eyes so no help from them
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| 23:10 | <vagrantc> do their eyes glow blue?
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| 23:10 | <jammcq> sparkly
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| 23:10 | <Enslaver> only when the hat is too tight
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| 23:10 | <vagrantc> i should work on a spice hook for LTSP...
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| 23:10 | <jammcq> vagrantc: question for you. I'd like to try nbd on debian, how do I tell the thin client to use nbd instead of nfs ?
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| 23:10 | <vagrantc> jammcq: i've been meaning to write a howto for that...
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| 23:11 | <Mip5> bye
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| 23:11 | <Enslaver> its in the dhcpd
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| 23:11 | <jammcq> I did the ltsp-build --nbd-conf (or something like that)
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| 23:11 | <vagrantc> jammcq: i think it goes something like edit: /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/update-kernels.conf and change the order of BOOT_METHODS
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| 23:11 | <Enslaver> I think ubuntu uses a nbd-server.conf or something
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| 23:11 | <jammcq> thre is a nbd-server.conf, but I think that's just to setup the nbd service
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| 23:12 | <Enslaver> what we did was: option root-path "nbd:172.30.10.35:2000:squashfs:ro";
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| 23:12 | <vagrantc> with recent versions of ubuntu and debian, it doesn't require any difference in DHCP
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| 23:12 | <Enslaver> the RH Nbd is handled by xinetd
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| 23:12 | and we give the arg to the i386.img
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| 23:13 | * Hyperbyte waves | |
| 23:13 | <jammcq> BOOT_METHODS="NFS NBD"
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| 23:13 | <vagrantc> jammcq: then: ltsp-chroot /usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels ; ltsp-update-kernels
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| 23:13 | <jammcq> but does that mean try NFS and if it fails try NBD ?
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| 23:13 | <vagrantc> jammcq: that means the menu it generates has NFS listed first
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| 23:13 | <jammcq> menu?
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| 23:13 | <vagrantc> jammcq: you could also turn the menu support on and select at boot time.
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| 23:13 | <jammcq> hmmmm
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| 23:14 | * jammcq didn't know there was a menu | |
| 23:14 | <vagrantc> jammcq: it's usually not displayed
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| 23:14 | <Enslaver> What i'm still curious about is when using nbd how the file type associations are done
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| 23:14 | for localapps
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| 23:14 | <vagrantc> jammcq: change PXELINUX_MENU=menu
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| 23:14 | jammcq: or vesamenu, if you prefer...
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| 23:15 | Enslaver: same way as always...
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| 23:15 | <Enslaver> they have never worked right for us
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| 23:16 | <vagrantc> jammcq: basically, /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/update-kernels.conf contains a bunch of settings you can tweak and play with.
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| 23:17 | jammcq: and to make those settings go live, you need to run: ltsp-chroot /usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels ; ltsp-update-kernels
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| 23:17 | jammcq: to enable NBD support, you need to run: ltsp-config nbd-server
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| 23:17 | jammcq: though ltsp-config from versions before 5.4.2-5 had some shell-dependent bugs.
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| 23:18 | Enslaver: LTSP doesn't do anything special with file associations...
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| 23:18 | <Enslaver> LDM does
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| 23:19 | <vagrantc> Enslaver: the XDG stuff?
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| 23:19 | <Enslaver> yes
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| 23:19 | ltsp-genmenu etc..
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| 23:19 | <vagrantc> that's menus, not file associations
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| 23:19 | <jammcq> boot menu.... pretty nifty
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| 23:19 | I booted it with nbd root
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| 23:20 | I think i've got some filesystem issues tho
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| 23:20 | <vagrantc> jammcq: i reworked the menuing system just barely in time for wheezy...
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| 23:20 | <Enslaver> X01-remoteapps
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| 23:21 | We run firefox as a local app but our evince (pdf viewer) is called as a remote app, basically any pdf you click on in firefox won't be associated with evince
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| 23:21 | i've tried writing gnome xdg mime associations to call ltsp-open but had no luck
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| 23:22 | <jammcq> Enslaver: but that shouldn't be any different between NFS and NBD
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| 23:22 | <vagrantc> Enslaver: yes, that's not exactly a filetype issue, though.
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| 23:22 | <jammcq> or maybe I misunderstood your question
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| 23:22 | <Enslaver> yeah sorry that was a bit confusing, when we moved to nbd we moved to localapps
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| 23:23 | <vagrantc> Enslaver: that's localapps having no way to know what should be run locally or remotely.
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| 23:23 | Enslaver: so localapps calling other apps will have these sorts of issues, yes.
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| 23:24 | the difficulty of resolving that issue is part of what's caused many people to go either all thin client or all fat client...
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| 23:24 | <jammcq> why not run evince locally too?
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| 23:25 | <vagrantc> at which point, you're just shy of being a fatclient, and more complicated configuration and debugging.
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| 23:25 | <Enslaver> thunderbird calls evince as well, so there would be a disconnect there too
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| 23:25 | its almost like we do either no local apps or all local apps
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| 23:26 | <vagrantc> and what's worse, is various appliciations decide what to run in different ways ...
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| 23:26 | i.e. libreoffice vs. mozilla-family applications
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| 23:26 | <Enslaver> omg don't get me started on that mess
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| 23:26 | <vagrantc> Enslaver: yes, essentially fatclients is running all apps locally.
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| 23:26 | <Enslaver> and apache-openoffice?
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| 23:27 | * vagrantc chuckles at those clinging to openoffice | |
| 23:27 | <Enslaver> we run libre here
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| 23:27 | but unfortunately theres about 5 people here who still require excel :/
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| 23:27 | So we have crossover (wine) running excel on the server
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| 23:28 | <vagrantc> it's one of the difficulties of freedom ... some people take it different directions, for better or worse ... but without that freedom, you suffer from vendor lock-in.
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| 23:28 | <Enslaver> Not sure if a fat client could handle that very well
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| 23:28 | <vagrantc> jammcq: sort out your NBD issues?
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| 23:29 | <jammcq> no, haven't looked yet. working on too many things at once right now
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| 23:29 | and not doing any of them properly
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| 23:29 | <vagrantc> jammcq: alkisg and I worked on trying to make that as painless as possible to switch back and forth between NBD and NFS...
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| 23:29 | <Enslaver> now my boss wants to look at OFBiz :(
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| 23:29 | <vagrantc> although it's not as clean as i would've hoped.
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| 23:30 | Enslaver: ?
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| 23:30 | <jammcq> what is OFBiz ?
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| 23:30 | <Enslaver> apache's "open for business" project
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| 23:30 | ERP/CRM/E-commerce
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| 23:30 | POS
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| 23:31 | <jammcq> hmm, ambitious
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| 23:31 | <Enslaver> Why did I go into IT again?
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| 23:31 | <vagrantc> Enslaver: to complain about the good old days?
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| 23:31 | <Enslaver> mostly
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| 23:31 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 23:32 | <Enslaver> well we run linux to the desktop and have been since 2001, he's the ambitious type ;0
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| 23:32 | <jammcq> Enslaver: where are you located?
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| 23:32 | <vagrantc> i swear 2000 was the year of the desktop... or was that 2001?
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| 23:32 | <Enslaver> Houston
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| 23:32 | <jammcq> hmm, warm down there?
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| 23:33 | <Enslaver> Before linux he had some AT&T based unix with wise terminal's attached to the network
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| 23:33 | I think it got down to 80 today, everyone is in their sweaters
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| 23:33 | you still in michigan?
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| 23:34 | <jammcq> yep
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| 23:34 | it's snowing today
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| 23:34 | 19F
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| 23:34 | <vagrantc> sunny here on the left coast
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| 23:34 | <Enslaver> yeah i just got back from upstate NY, it was colder than a coleminer's ass up there
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| 23:35 | don't know how ya'll do it
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| 23:35 | Although we have to deal with the rain and the fat women
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| 23:36 | Some day's i'd take the snow over that
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| 23:36 | I think after I get ltsp ported to RHEL i might try getting it working on my Rasperry Pi
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| 23:37 | Talk about a 'thin' client :)
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| 23:38 | <vagrantc> i got the stuff needed for LTSP on raspbian
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| 23:38 | works ok
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| 23:38 | <Enslaver> what all is required, xatomwait compiled for arm?
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| 23:38 | <vagrantc> raspbian being the debian wheezy rebuild for the rpi
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| 23:39 | <Enslaver> I'm running pidora core 17 on it now
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| 23:39 | <vagrantc> the main thing i did was get a proper linux-image package built, so it would support all kernel features ltsp makes use of
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| 23:39 | <Enslaver> maybe i'll make a thin client/xbmc box
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| 23:40 | CONFIG_LTSP ?
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| 23:40 | <vagrantc> although the raspberry pi doesn't have any real way to network boot, so i had to copy the kernel + initramfs onto the SD card to boot.
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| 23:40 | Enslaver: heh. i just needed initramfs support, aufs support ... forget what all else, maybe fuse.
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| 23:42 | <Enslaver> Yeah i saw that :/ I'm gonna try putting the rootfs on nfs or something
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| 23:42 | <vagrantc> Enslaver: basically, just got the raspbian developers to include a kernel packaged like most debian kernels, with most things compiled as modules and initramfs support, mainly.
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| 23:42 | <Enslaver> or do etherboot?
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| 23:42 | <vagrantc> no etherboot
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| 23:43 | <Enslaver> :(
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| 23:43 | <vagrantc> i tried using petitboot and pxe-kexec, which both use kexec, but it doesn't support kexec.
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| 23:43 | <Enslaver> gpxe? :)
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| 23:43 | <vagrantc> Enslaver: nope
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| 23:43 | <Enslaver> uboot?
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| 23:44 | <vagrantc> i've heard mumblings about uboot support for the rpi ...
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| 23:45 | though the rpi is pretty simplistic in it's approach to loading an OS ... it typically doesn't even have a bootloader, per se.
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| 23:46 | <Enslaver> https://github.com/gonzoua/u-boot-pi/tree/rpi
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| 23:46 | that looks of interest
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| 23:47 | <vagrantc> though the next RPI thing on my list would probably be debian-installer support
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| 23:47 | although if you could get uboot working on the rpi with networking support, that'd put me closer to a more complete LTSP option for the rpi
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| 23:48 | <Enslaver> Hmm, looks like they have a build for the ARM on the RPI
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| 23:48 | <vagrantc> maybe i'll give that a go
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| 23:49 | <Enslaver> There's the fun stuff :)
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| 23:50 | if we had an ubuntu ltsp server could we just install like say LDM on our desktop servers and have each user point to that?
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| 23:51 | our desktop servers being RHEL
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| 23:51 | So basically they would pull their client image from one server and have their display be pointed to another
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| 23:52 | <jammcq> you'd have a boot-server and an application-server
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| 23:54 | <vagrantc> Enslaver: yeah, that'd work fine
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| 23:55 | <Enslaver> talking over LDM(ssh) ?
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| 23:55 | or having to revert back to xdmcp
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| 23:55 | <vagrantc> Enslaver: i've got a debian boot/root server, and several application servers (one running an older version of ubuntu, one newer, some running debian).
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| 23:56 | Enslaver: ssh should work
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| 23:56 | <Enslaver> heck i might just setup a test virtual machine of that
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| 23:57 | What do i specify in the lts.conf? LDM_SERVER=desktopserver1 ?
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| 23:58 | vagrantc: check this out http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5603
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