IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 11 August 2014 (all times are UTC)
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| 09:29 | <Guest24382> Hi, LTSP clients wont shutdown completely
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| 09:29 | Can anyone help
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| 20:52 | <talntid> is LTSP still really developed?
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| 20:52 | the last news on the site is from Jan 2013
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| 20:54 | <||cw> it is. updating the website has never been a strong point. the launchpad wiki is updated often though
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| 20:54 | <talntid> ok, cool :)
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| 21:00 | do you know where a changelog is? I have 5.2.1, looks like latest is 5.4.5 - curious what is different, but don't really want to go through all the commit messages?
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| 21:01 | <||cw> not offhand
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| 21:01 | <alkisg> !learn changelog as http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vagrantc/ltsp/ltsp-debian-packaging/view/head:/changelog
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| 21:01 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 21:04 | <vagrantc> alkisg: well, that's pretty debian specific
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| 21:04 | and i don't document *every* change...
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| 21:04 | <alkisg> vagrantc: do we have a better one elsewhere?
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| 21:04 | <vagrantc> i guess not... :(
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| 21:04 | <alkisg> :)
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| 21:04 | You're da man then :)
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| 21:13 | <talntid> thanks! =]
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| 21:14 | I have been running a 70-person call center on LTSP for 6 years
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| 21:14 | and now I am considering uprading the whole setup
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| 21:16 | have seen some performance issues, maybe they've been worked out by now
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| 21:18 | <vagrantc> depends on your setup.
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| 21:18 | glad to hear it's been working for you!
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| 21:19 | talntid: you might consider adding your site the to worldmap:
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| 21:19 | !worldmap | echo talntid
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| 21:19 | <ltsp> talntid worldmap: If you're using LTSP, please let the world know and share your story at http://www.ltsp.org/stories/ Your can add a nice pin to our world map at your location, plus your setup will count towards the global LTSP usage statistics.
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| 21:20 | <talntid> it's been working great, except a bit sluggish :-)
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| 21:20 | <vagrantc> thin client, fat client, localapps??
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| 21:20 | <talntid> thin client with localapps
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| 21:20 | <vagrantc> software has gotten a bit bloated lately, and much software is written without thinkng about ipact on the thin client model...
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| 21:20 | <talntid> only thing they use is web browser
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| 21:20 | which is firefox
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| 21:21 | <vagrantc> on unbuntu?
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| 21:21 | <talntid> yes
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| 21:21 | <vagrantc> er, ubuntu :)
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| 21:21 | <talntid> it runs as a localapp. if i don't, it chokes the server out
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| 21:21 | <vagrantc> right, 70 firefoxes would be pretty ugly
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| 21:21 | talntid: would you be able to run the whole session locally as a fat client?
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| 21:21 | talntid: that might actually perform better
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| 21:22 | <talntid> each machine has 2gb ram, 2.4ghz processor
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| 21:22 | no HDD
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| 21:22 | <vagrantc> well, LTSP has a feature call FATCLIENT which is essentially like localapps, but for the whole session.
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| 21:22 | !fatclient
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| 21:22 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'fatclient', but I do know about these similar topics: 'fatclients', 'fatclient-printers'
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| 21:23 | <vagrantc> !fatclients
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| 21:23 | <ltsp> fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 21:23 | <talntid> right. but doesn't it somewhat defeat the purpose?
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| 21:23 | * vagrantc wonders how dated that is | |
| 21:23 | <talntid> it downloads and runs the whole image as if it is a livecd, right?
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| 21:23 | <vagrantc> no, it only downloads the bits actually used
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| 21:24 | if all you're running is a web browser, the you may as well run the session locally as well.
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| 21:24 | you're already downloading the biggest part (the web browser)
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| 21:24 | this is not to be confused with non-LTSP disked "fat" clients.
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| 21:25 | everything still runs over the network, it's just more processes running on the client hardware.
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| 21:25 | <talntid> well, so, think that'd be better, or..
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| 21:25 | beef up the server?
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| 21:26 | <vagrantc> the server is probably not your bottleneck ... or is the server load always high?
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| 21:26 | if you're using sshfs homedirs, that might be an issue
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| 21:26 | 70 sshfs homedirs could add up...
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| 21:26 | talntid: basically, identify where your bottleneck is before trying to "solve" slowness problems :)
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| 21:28 | <talntid> I am using nfsmounts for homedirs
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| 21:28 | i think.
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| 21:28 | lol
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| 21:28 | on the ltsp server, it...
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| 21:29 | nfsmounts homedirs that are on my file server
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| 21:29 | then i guess the ltsp sessions are sshfs mounting the homedirs
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| 21:29 | from the ltsp server
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| 21:30 | load average: 0.26, 0.17, 0.16
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| 21:31 | 8core 2.6ghz, 8gb ram
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| 21:37 | <||cw> if the homedirs are not local on the ltsp host then an easy optimization is to have the clients nfs mount them directly
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| 21:38 | since the default behavious would have you transferring the data 2 times over the network
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| 21:38 | <talntid> yeah
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| 21:38 | <||cw> but, that still may not be a huge issue
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| 21:39 | <talntid> the whole system isn't too slow. just, wish it was a bit snappier
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| 21:41 | <||cw> for thin client, 8GB ram for 70 clients a pretty weak
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| 21:42 | fat client should do better than thin client localapps, or at least look/feel more native
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| 21:42 | are the clients 100mbit?
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| 21:44 | <talntid> yes
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| 21:49 | <||cw> so keep in mind you basically have a 9MB/s disk, not including application network traffic
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| 21:50 | any action that has to read from the mapped disk is going to be kinda slow
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| 21:59 | <talntid> think I should drop a bunch of GB cards in it?
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| 21:59 | in the thin clients
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| 22:00 | $700 gets them all outfitted
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| 22:00 | the rest of the network is gbit
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| 22:02 | <vagrantc> they'll take a new network card?
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| 22:03 | * vagrantc seconds ||cw's suggestions | |
| 22:03 | <talntid> yeah, they will
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| 22:03 | <vagrantc> talntid: nothing like trying on a small number to see if it's worth it
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| 22:04 | <talntid> http://www.pc-freak.net/images/IBM_desktop_thinkcentre.jpg
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| 22:04 | thats what they are
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| 22:04 | <vagrantc> not too thin looking :)
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| 22:04 | <talntid> yeah, hah
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| 22:04 | <alkisg> talntid: Is /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img compressed?
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| 22:05 | <talntid> i have 50 wyse thin clients if anyone wants to buy them, lol...
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| 22:05 | <alkisg> For some versions, Ubuntu used to not compress it by default
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| 22:05 | <talntid> they ran like poop :(
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| 22:05 | i don't know if it is compressed, alkisg
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| 22:05 | <alkisg> Which Ubuntu version?
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| 22:06 | <||cw> the OS image should be compressed, but web browsers do a lot of IO on $HOME
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| 22:06 | <talntid> the ltsp host is 10.04. (i know, i know.)
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| 22:06 | <alkisg> !nbd-compression
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| 22:06 | <ltsp> nbd-compression: In Ubuntu >= 10.04, to make your clients go faster, you can reenable NBD compression: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients#Reenabling_NBD_compression
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| 22:06 | <alkisg> ||cw: in 10.04 it was not compressed by default
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| 22:06 | So, by enabling compression, it would speed up nbd access 2.5 times
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| 22:06 | <vagrantc> and is also well out of support, no?
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| 22:06 | <||cw> yeah but 10.04 is EOL, so who still uses that :P
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| 22:07 | <talntid> people who don't want to rebuild ltsp from scratch again. lol
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| 22:07 | <vagrantc> lots of people
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| 22:07 | * ||cw still uses it, but did read the guide and did enable compression | |
| 22:07 | <talntid> it was a pain in the ass to get working in the first place
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| 22:07 | <||cw> yes it was
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| 22:07 | <talntid> so I want to leave it working while I build a new one
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| 22:07 | <||cw> especially with 3M touch screens
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| 22:07 | <alkisg> !ltsp-pnp | echo talntid:
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| 22:07 | <ltsp> talntid: ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 22:07 | <talntid> I have a server sitting with 192gb ram, 4x8core procs
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| 22:07 | <alkisg> That's a really easy way to get fat clients running ^
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| 22:09 | EOL for 10.04: May 9, 2013 (Desktop) April 2015 (Server)
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| 22:09 | <vagrantc> talntid: no guarantees, but i think more recent versions have a number of features that will make it much easier to set up
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| 22:09 | <talntid> I think I'll do a migration sometime soon
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| 22:09 | <vagrantc> alkisg: and LTSP uses mostly Desktop components
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| 22:09 | just because it's a "server", doesn't mean it's supported.
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| 22:10 | <alkisg> Sure, but it's nice to have a supported kernel, ssh, nbd etc
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| 22:11 | <vagrantc> core components are still "supported", sure.
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| 22:11 | <alkisg> talntid: those clients are pentium 4? Which graphics cards?
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| 22:11 | Because you might have graphics issues if you upgrade to an unsupported version of xorg
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| 22:11 | <talntid> they are p4, yes
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| 22:12 | hold, lemme check the gfx
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| 22:12 | <alkisg> E.g. if they have cards based on XAA, you should either stick to 10.04, or upgrade to at most 12.04.1, not more than .1
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| 22:13 | <alkisg> Also, P4 is the reason they're sluggish, and they'll be more so in more recent versions
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| 22:13 | lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA
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| 22:13 | (ltsp-localapps xterm first)
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| 23:36 | <talntid> Ark74, yeah, I am not near one of my thin clients right now, or I'd look =D
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