IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 8 February 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:12 | <vagrantc> !compiz
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| 01:12 | <ltsp> vagrantc: compiz: the default window manager in gnome is gnome-wm, which automatically chooses compiz if it thinks that the card supports it. Compiz is causing login problems to some clients (LP #673072). To disable it, see !disable_compiz. To restore it, see !restore_compiz
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| 06:37 | <muppis> alkisg, ah. Good morning. :)
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| 06:37 | <alkisg> Good morning :)
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| 06:39 | <muppis> Got printing issue with local usb printer, but I can't connect to client via ssh at all (ssh server is installed).
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| 06:39 | * alkisg was considering proposing KDE for Greek schools when Canonical announced that it was dropping support for Ubuntu... | |
| 06:39 | * alkisg is puzzled now, maybe he'll stick with gnome-classic | |
| 06:40 | <alkisg> *for Kubuntu, sorry
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| 06:40 | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA1NDA
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| 06:43 | <muppis> I've heard only one person who has used KDE in Ubuntu. And actually KDE in Ubuntu, not Kubuntu. I asked why that way, he said he wanted Ubuntu with KDE, not Kubuntu.
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| 06:43 | <alkisg> ...? what's the difference?!
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| 06:44 | <muppis> I do not know..
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| 06:44 | <alkisg> Doesn't kubuntu package all kde stuff for ubuntu?
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| 06:44 | <muppis> Yes.
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| 06:44 | <alkisg> So kubuntu-desktop would only be a metapackage... sounds like that person didn't know what he was asking for
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| 06:45 | What I hate most about KDE is that if I want to install kolourpaint in my gnome desktop, I have to get phonon too :-/
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| 06:45 | <muppis> I mentioned that and he claimed he knows that.
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| 06:45 | <alkisg> A lot of dependencies, I'd like it more if its many of its apps were able to run with plain Qt
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| 06:48 | <muppis> My customer wnat LibreOffice to 10.04. Easy task?
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| 06:49 | Wants.. Not yet caffained for today.
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| 06:56 | <alkisg> Yeah sure you just use a ppa for that
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| 06:56 | <muppis> Founded that.
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| 07:43 | * alkisg does some 12.04 LTSP testing, as requested by stgraber... | |
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| 08:50 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, how does the Gnome environment in 12.04 work without compositing capable hardware?
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| 08:50 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: that's what I want to see now, especially via the network (thin clients)...
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| 08:51 | Ubuntu 2D, Gnome-session and classic-gnome should work, but I don't know how well
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| 08:51 | *gnome-shell, sorry
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| 09:01 | <bobapple> hi
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| 09:01 | can somebody tell me how to update the kernel of the chroot? (server kernel already updated)
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| 09:02 | <alkisg> bobapple: distro/version?
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| 09:08 | <bobapple> fedora 14
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| 09:09 | <alkisg> No idea
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| 09:16 | Hyperbyte: unity (3d) and compiz really such on vbox VMs though, the screen isn't redrawn properly
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| 09:16 | * alkisg tries unity-2d... | |
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| 09:25 | <bobapple> any idea how to solve tftp timeout problem? (iptables and selinux are down)
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| 09:36 | <alkisg> s/such/sucks
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| 09:43 | <alkisg> !ubuntu-2d
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| 09:43 | <ltsp`> alkisg: I do not know about 'ubuntu-2d', but I do know about these similar topics: 'ubuntu-bug', 'ubuntu'
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| 09:43 | <alkisg> !learn ubuntu-2d as To select ubuntu-2d as your default session, put this line in your lts.conf: LDM_SESSION="gnome-session --session=ubuntu-2d"
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| 09:43 | <ltsp`> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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| 09:56 | <alkisg> !learn gnome-shell as To select gnome-shell as your default session, put this line in your lts.conf: LDM_SESSION="gnome-session --session=gnome"
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| 09:56 | <ltsp`> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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| 09:58 | <alkisg> !learn gnome-fallback as To select gnome-fallback as your default session, put this line in your lts.conf: LDM_SESSION="gnome-session --session=gnome-fallback"
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| 09:58 | <ltsp`> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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| 09:59 | <muppis> alkisg, are those 12.04 only?
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| 09:59 | <alkisg> muppis: I think from 11.04 and on, but I'm only using lts releases so not sure
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| 10:00 | <muppis> alkisg, ok. I need to test those.
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| 10:00 | I want gnome-shell, but so far no joy.
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| 10:00 | <alkisg> There was a bug about LDM_SESSION handling too, before
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| 10:00 | (in ltsp)
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| 10:00 | I don't remember if that was fixed in 11.10 or in 12.04
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| 11:35 | <andygraybeal> good morning!
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| 12:50 | <knipwim> [GuS]: i won't be able to look at your bug this week
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| 12:51 | having some major computer problems here
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| 12:51 | which need the fixed first
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| 12:51 | <[GuS]> knipwim: no problems, thanks a lot anyway :)
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| 12:51 | knipwim: meanwhile i will wait to a new stage3 snapshot to appear
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| 12:51 | <knipwim> have you tried kicktoo as installer?
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| 12:52 | <[GuS]> knipwim: I have that in mind too
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| 13:53 | <andygraybeal> my heart flops everytime i go to update my image and it tells me 'Error: chroot /opt/ltsp/amd64 doesn't exist' ... everytime it gets me :) and then a second later.. i'm like.. oh yea.. --arch i386
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| 13:55 | <muppis> andygraybeal, put arch=i386 in /etc/ltsp/ltsp-update-image.conf
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| 13:55 | <andygraybeal> muppis, haha awesome.
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| 13:58 | okay, done.
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| 14:10 | <andygraybeal> alkisg, alright - i have an issue - when i'm logged into a fatclient on vt 12, then i login to vt 11 - the script runs just fine. when i say 'OK' to kill my previous session on vt12... the session on vt12 doesn't get killed and vt11 opens just fine -- so for example right now, i have VT11 and VT12 running at the same time with my account even though i asked it to kill the session on VT12
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| 14:12 | i wonder if it deals with my $USER variable that i somehow messed up.
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| 14:12 | i wouldn't know how to fix tha in the first place.
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| 16:02 | <muppis> !gnome-shell
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| 16:02 | <ltsp`> muppis: gnome-shell: To select gnome-shell as your default session, put this line in your lts.conf: LDM_SESSION="gnome-session --session=gnome"
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| 16:10 | <xsl> is it possible to users to burn CDS ?
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| 16:21 | <xsl> !cd-burn
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| 16:21 | <ltsp`> xsl: Error: "cd-burn" is not a valid command.
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| 16:31 | <alkisg> andygraybeal: yup that's the point we were talking about in the first place, when I told you that it's better if the users go there and logout themselves, instead of killing their processes, in order to save unsaved work
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| 16:31 | So the 2 dialog options actually mean:
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| 16:32 | Cancel login == "ah I forgot I was logged on there, I'll go work there, thanks"
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| 16:32 | Kill old session and login == "the other session actually died, I don't have an interface, I can't logout, so kill the stale ssh process"
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| 16:33 | The third option that you're mentioning, "kill the other session which has no problem whatsoever and let me login here" is what we agreed that isn't a good idea
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| 16:38 | <alkisg> stgraber: I wrote some things about my precise/ltsp testing in the pad, I'll test some more in 5-6 hours, but if you could do some of the packaging changes (nbd compression, boot=ltsp_nbd, remove shutdown upstart scripts etc) the testing would make more sense...
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| 16:39 | <stgraber> alkisg: ok, I'll have a look. I'm still not sure about the upstart scripts but will at least look at the exact conditions again
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| 16:40 | <alkisg> stgraber: I can arrange to work on ltsp for the next few days if the changes are going to be included in precise
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| 16:40 | (otherwise I was going to after my phd... )
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| 16:40 | <stgraber> alkisg: I definitely plan on uploading a new LTSP before FeatureFreeze (16th of February, so next week)
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| 16:41 | <alkisg> Cool, will do so then, but if you have some time later on to chat about some of the packaging changes, it'd be nice
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| 16:41 | <stgraber> unfortunately that's one of the 20 things I need to get done by the 16th, so I only spend a few minutes on it every day :)
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| 16:41 | <alkisg> bb in 3-4 hours...
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| 16:41 | stgraber: I can send a debdiff for the packaging too, along with comments about the testing done after those changes
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| 16:42 | Just send me a url for your last branch
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| 16:43 | <stgraber> alkisg: currently I only have a local branch (that's a big mix of LTSP snapshot and packaging), if you want to send me debdiffs, just do a debdiff from what's currently in the ppa
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| 16:43 | <alkisg> OK
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| 16:58 | <andygraybeal> alkisg, okay thank you for explaining the three separate scenarios - i was confused in the first place... so thank you for explicitly saying the three things.
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| 17:13 | alkisg, i guess i'm a little confused - why is it that if I'm logged in on VT12, then I go to login to VT11, i click on "Okay" kill my session at VT12... why i'm still alive on VT12?
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| 17:15 | <muppis> In 11.10 gnome-shell just doesn't work.
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| 17:19 | It is possible that I got something broke in my system as it is upgraded from somewhere ancient.
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| 17:19 | <andygraybeal> muppis, what about the failback?
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| 17:21 | <muppis> andygraybeal, not even that.
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| 17:22 | <xsl> what does not work?
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| 21:01 | <highvoltage> vagrantc: howdy!
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| 21:17 | * vagrantc waves | |
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| 21:28 | <highvoltage> 19:39 < vagrantc> highvoltage: regarding ltsp-cluster packages ... do you have a vcs for it? would you like to include pkg-ltsp as the maintainer (people are likely to associate the two anyways)?
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| 21:30 | stgraber: ^^^ is there a reason why we shouldn't put it along with the other ltsp packages in the alioth ltsp-pks repository?
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| 21:33 | <stgraber> highvoltage: pkg-ltsp sounds good
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| 21:33 | vagrantc: btw, I believe I asked to join that team on alioth ;)
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| 21:33 | <vagrantc> upstream, of course, should go where upstream wants
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| 21:34 | but the debian packaging dirs for Debian i generally like to have hosted on debian infrastructure ...
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| 21:34 | <stgraber> yeah, upstream code is on LP and using mkdst (one is part of ltsp-cluster, the other part of weblive)
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| 21:34 | <vagrantc> although if it makes things easier to host alongside upstream, i'm not fundamentally opposed.
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| 21:34 | <stgraber> vagrantc: nevermind, I see I'm part of ltsp on alioth now, thought I'd get a notification or something ...
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| 21:35 | <vagrantc> stgraber: dunno what happened there
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| 21:42 | <highvoltage> vagrantc: could you give me some pointers? I find alioth kind of confusing. Where are the repositories, and what are they? Git?
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| 21:45 | <SmallR2002> completely off topic
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| 21:47 | <vagrantc> highvoltage: it's messy.
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| 21:47 | <SmallR2002> does anyone have experience with a DMS?
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| 21:47 | i've played with Alfresco but can't get it not to crash whatever system/vm i run it on
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| 21:47 | <vagrantc> highvoltage: if upstream uses bzr, probably best to stick with that. if you wanted to do git, we could go that route, too. or any other vcs, probably.
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| 21:48 | i haven't yet figured out my preferred workflow with debian packaging, vcs and upstream, and how they interrelate...
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| 21:49 | <highvoltage> vagrantc: ok
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| 21:49 | vagrantc: so does alioth actually host the repositories? or does that go into collab-maint?
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| 21:50 | <vagrantc> the main question is weather to keep the debian dir in it's own repository, or to merge it into upstream.
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| 21:50 | <highvoltage> (which actually also seems part of alioth somehow)
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| 21:50 | it sounds reasonable to keep it in a seperate repository
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| 21:50 | <vagrantc> highvoltage: collab-maint is just one big project. pkg-ltsp is another project. and you can have repositories of nearly any vcs you've ever heard of hosted in there.
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| 21:51 | highvoltage: what i don't like about keeping it in a separate repository is it becomes less clear exactly which upstream version the debian revision relates to...
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| 21:51 | <highvoltage> I know enough of bzr and git to get by. stgraber is upstream and I think he prefers bzr so it sways me that way for this
| |
| 21:52 | * highvoltage looks for an option to register a branch | |
| 21:53 | <vagrantc> highvoltage: one big question is how likely are debian and ubuntu to diverge on packaging
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| 21:54 | highvoltage: http://anonscm.debian.org/loggerhead/pkg-ltsp/
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| 21:55 | <highvoltage> vagrantc: I think it's unlikely. the current plan is to sync these packages from debian to ubuntu and keep it updated in debian.
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| 21:55 | <vagrantc> i've been leaning towards debian dir merged on top of upstream for a while
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| 21:55 | <highvoltage> vagrantc: these packages aren't currently in ubuntu
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| 21:55 | <vagrantc> highvoltage: oh, i didn't know that
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| 21:56 | <highvoltage> vagrantc: that's also why I have some pressure from stgraber to get them into debian. ubuntu feature freeze is next week.
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| 21:57 | <vagrantc> highvoltage: i might be able to try it out friday
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| 21:57 | highvoltage: or monday
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| 21:58 | <stgraber> highvoltage: did you add a sysvinit script for ltsp-cluster-agent? I "think" it only had an upstart job
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| 21:58 | <highvoltage> vagrantc: ok, thanks. I'll attempt to get the debian directories on debian's vcs infrastructure tomorrow
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| 21:59 | stgraber: nope, I guess I'll have to do that
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| 22:00 | <vagrantc> highvoltage: feel free to set pkg-ltsp-devel as maintainer, and add yourself to uploaders.
| |
| 22:00 | alternately, you might just be able to depend on upstart.,
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| 22:01 | <stgraber> well, more like recommend really, the daemon still works great without, it just won't start automatically (which I actually rarely do in production)
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| 22:01 | <vagrantc> it's a daemon you start manually?
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| 22:02 | <highvoltage> I was thinking more like "suggests"
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| 22:06 | <stgraber> vagrantc: it's a regular daemon so boot time is fine, though for most of my uses cases I want to start it manually to have it load a non-packaged plugin (it also looks in cwd for plugins)
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| 22:11 | <vagrantc> well, whatever's "normal" behavior should at least be recommends.
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| 22:11 | although if "normal" involves manual configuration, then suggests is reasonable.
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| 22:36 | <stgraber> vagrantc: I guess most people will expect it to start anyway, if only to disable it later. Ideally we should have a sysvinit script, should be a trivial start-stop-daemon call. If not, then recommending upstart sounds good
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| 22:38 | <vagrantc> fair enough
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| 23:21 | <stgraber> vagrantc: I'm going through the list of issues alkisg reported with the current trunk
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| 23:21 | vagrantc: one of them is ldm not listing sessions on fat clients
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| 23:22 | vagrantc: that's not a new bug but it can easily be fixed by a packaging change in ldm
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| 23:22 | vagrantc: we'd need the ldm binary package to also contain ldminfod and put it in /usr/sbin/ldminfod
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| 23:23 | we could depend on ldm-server but then we'd end up with openbsd-inetd and a bunch of other things we don't want on the client, so I guess the easiest is to ship the same file in both packages (with the proper conflict obviously)
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| 23:50 | <vagrantc> i'm a little lost
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| 23:50 | oh, you want ldminfod in both ldm-server and ldm itself?
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| 23:51 | you could also ship it as a different filename so you wouldn't have to conflict.
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| 23:52 | probably wouldn't need to install both on the same machine, but it wouldn't be hard to leave the option open.
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| 23:57 | <stgraber> right, we could have it in /usr/bin/ldminfod in ldm and /usr/sbin/ldminfod in ldm-server
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| 23:57 | <vagrantc> hah
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| 23:57 | <stgraber> would just need a change to the screen.d script to look at /usr/bin/ldminfod though
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| 23:57 | <vagrantc> that wouldn't be confusing.
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| 23:58 | stgraber: i almost wonder if /usr/share/ldm/ldminfod for the ldm copy
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| 23:58 | <stgraber> well, I proposed a conflict between ldm and ldm-server ;) you're the one saying we may want both installed :)
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| 23:58 | <vagrantc> sure, just no reason to keep it in the path.
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| 23:58 | <stgraber> vagrantc: yeah, /usr/share/ldm/ldminfod would work, it's an hardcoded path in screen.d/ldm anyway
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| 23:59 | <vagrantc> unless there is... ?
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| 23:59 | and it's shipped in ldm itself, so tthat should work.
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| 23:59 | i.e. if it changes, it'll be easy to change in ldm
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