IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 29 April 2011 (all times are UTC)
| 00:04 | alkisg (~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg) joined #ltsp. | |
| 00:12 | <muppis> Is there way to remote reboot client when no one logged in?
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| 00:14 | gnunux (~emmanuel@194.167.18.244) joined #ltsp. | |
| 00:15 | <alkisg> With a stock ltsp installation, no
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| 00:16 | <muppis> bummer.
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| 00:16 | <alkisg> There are ways to do it. Cron jobs, italc, etc
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| 00:16 | daemons listening for commands, ssh etc
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| 00:16 | <gnunux> hi
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| 00:16 | <muppis> I'm aware of those, just wondering could be some trick to do get it rebooted.
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| 00:17 | <alkisg> If it's logged on, then sure. But if it's not logged on, no.
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| 00:17 | Hi gnunux
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| 00:18 | <muppis> Then has try get someone do it manually.
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| 00:23 | listpi (ca8a720f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.138.114.15) joined #ltsp. | |
| 00:28 | <listpi> #ubuntu
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| 00:33 | <Appiah> O_o
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| 00:36 | <alkisg> ?
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| 00:38 | <muppis> local_apps_menu_items doesn't work..
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| 00:38 | <alkisg> That's used to *limit* which localapps are shown
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| 00:39 | If unset, all of them show in the menus
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| 00:40 | <muppis> Ok.
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| 00:41 | <alkisg> Of course you do need LOCAL_APPS=True
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| 00:42 | <muppis> Yes, Yes, and set LOCAL_APPS_MENU also.
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| 00:44 | <alkisg> Haha sorry you don't need LOCAL_APPS=True, just the LOCAL_APPS_MENU
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| 00:44 | I was looking at the man page and it's wrong
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| 00:44 | First, it says:
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| 00:44 | LOCAL_APPS
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| 00:44 | boolean default False
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| 00:44 | Whether to run apps locally on the client or not
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| 00:44 | A little below it says:
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| 00:45 | LOCAL_APPS
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| 00:45 | boolean, default True
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| 00:45 | Enables support for running local apps on the thin client.
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| 00:45 | The second is the correct one ;)
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| 00:54 | <muppis> Can be lts.conf reloaded without rebooting?
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| 00:54 | Or it is done by ldm?
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| 00:59 | <alkisg> Client reboot is required
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| 01:08 | <muppis> Just can't get it working.
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| 01:08 | <alkisg> Try: ltsp-localapps xterm
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| 01:08 | Does it pop up an xterm?
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| 01:09 | <muppis> Sure, and ltsp-localapps google-earth works also.
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| 01:09 | <alkisg> The problem is that they don't show up in the menus?
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| 01:09 | <muppis> Yep.
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| 01:09 | <alkisg> From the local xterm, try: getltscfg -a
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| 01:09 | And pastebin the output
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| 01:10 | <muppis> Permission denied.
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| 01:10 | <alkisg> Where?
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| 01:11 | <muppis> http://pastebin.com/wh3EGreq
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| 01:11 | <alkisg> That's not normal
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| 01:11 | Which distro/version is that?
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| 01:12 | <muppis> Still 10.04 ;)
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| 01:12 | <alkisg> Did you do anything weird with lts.conf?
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| 01:12 | On the server, try: ls -l /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
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| 01:12 | <muppis> Read/write only for root.
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| 01:13 | <alkisg> $ ls -l /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
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| 01:13 | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 765 2011-03-21 16:48 /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
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| 01:13 | ^ that's the correct mode
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| 01:13 | Fix it + ltsp-update-image
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| 01:14 | Or you did that on purpose?
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| 01:14 | <muppis> Nope. Had a lot permission issues since image rebuild.
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| 01:14 | <alkisg> I wonder why...
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| 01:14 | <muppis> So do I.
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| 01:15 | Like lts.conf under tftboot had it.
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| 01:15 | Just like this one under chroot.
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| 01:15 | <alkisg> Check your umask
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| 01:15 | Or the roots umask
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| 01:16 | <muppis> Also kernelfiles under tftboot was unreadable by tfpd and caused booting problems.
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| 01:16 | *tftpd
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| 01:16 | <alkisg> If lts.conf in tftp is only readable by root, then tftpd-hpa won't be able to read it
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| 01:16 | You're sure you didn't upgrade your kernels or ltsp version to something more recent, right?
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| 01:16 | From any ppas or manual compile...
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| 01:16 | <muppis> I noticed, caused printing problems with usb printers in clients.
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| 01:17 | Used ltsp-update-kernels..
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| 01:18 | <alkisg> No I mean you didn't install kernel 2.6.38 or anything similar... the new kernels change the permissions
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| 01:20 | dobber (~dobber@89.190.197.77) joined #ltsp. | |
| 01:24 | <muppis> I can't surely say, but haven't by purposly.
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| 01:24 | <alkisg> ls -l /opt/ltsp/i386/boot
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| 01:26 | <muppis> 2.6.32-30-generic
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| 01:27 | <alkisg> That's the old lucid kernel, you're ok
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| 01:27 | Check your umask
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| 01:28 | (by running: umask)
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| 01:28 | <muppis> 0077
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| 01:28 | <alkisg> That's the problem
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| 01:28 | The default is 0022
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| 01:28 | <muppis> Njam.
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| 01:28 | <alkisg> So that umask propagates to ltsp-update-kernels etc
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| 01:28 | Maybe there's a bug somewhere there
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| 01:28 | <muppis> umask 0022 fixes?
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| 01:29 | <alkisg> Maybe
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| 01:29 | <muppis> Atleast shows it as 0022 after that.
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| 01:29 | <alkisg> How did you change your umask?
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| 01:29 | Maybe the problem isn't *your* umask, but the root's umask
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| 01:30 | <muppis> Done it as root.
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| 01:30 | <alkisg> Where?
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| 01:30 | <muppis> At server.
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| 01:30 | <alkisg> At which startup script?
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| 01:30 | How did you modify your default umask? You must have put it in a script
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| 01:31 | When I boot my pc I have umask=0022. When you boot your pc you have umask=0077. What did you change to get that? That's what I'm asking
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| 01:32 | <muppis> Funny.. It is as 022 in /etc/profile, which should loaded in every login.
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| 01:33 | <alkisg> See the docs for umask in /etc/login.defs
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| 01:39 | <muppis> Hmm..
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| 02:56 | <muppis> alkisg, still no joy.
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| 03:17 | Trixboxer (~Trixboxer@office.supportdepartment.net) joined #ltsp. | |
| 03:36 | <muppis> acroread and vlc works, but firefox and google-earth doesn't.
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| 04:25 | otavio (~otavio@debian/developer/otavio) joined #ltsp. | |
| 04:27 | <alkisg> muppis: so now `getltscfg -a` works fine?
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| 04:27 | <muppis> alkisg, yes.
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| 04:28 | <alkisg> And you get a "localapps" menu for acroread and vlc, but you don't get one for firefox?
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| 04:29 | <muppis> Yes. And as I removed _items -setting from lts.conf, also ltsp-cluster-info shoed up to menu.
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| 04:29 | *showed
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| 04:29 | <alkisg> Can you put the output of getltscfg -a to pastebin?
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| 04:30 | * muppis hops to other pc... | |
| 04:31 | <muppis> http://pastebin.com/68kAQ4dC
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| 04:34 | <alkisg> You only removed DNS_SERVER? Ok, looks good
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| 04:35 | Now, on a thin client, on a regular gnome-terminal. *not* on a local xterm:
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| 04:35 | echo $XDG_DATA_DIRS
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| 04:36 | <muppis> /usr/share/gnome:/tmp/ltsp-localapps-<user-removed>/:/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/
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| 04:36 | <alkisg> Good. Now, `ls -l /tmp/ltsp-localapps-<user-removed>`
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| 04:36 | Is firefox there?
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| 04:37 | <muppis> It's under applications -dir.
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| 04:37 | <alkisg> Well, then that's the one that is on your menus
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| 04:37 | <muppis> As well acroread, vlc and others.
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| 04:37 | <alkisg> Try it. Go to the firefox menu, and *drag* it to your desktop
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| 04:38 | Then, in your desktop dir, do: `cat firefox.desktop`
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| 04:38 | And see if it calls ltsp-localapps
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| 04:38 | <andygraybeal> morning!
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| 04:38 | <muppis> Nope, it calls directly firefox.
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| 04:39 | As file under tmp calls xprop.
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| 04:39 | <alkisg> muppis: something doesn't make sense
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| 04:39 | andygraybeal: hello
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| 04:39 | <muppis> I've noticed..
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| 04:39 | <andygraybeal> alkisg, :))))
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| 04:40 | <alkisg> muppis: the gnome menus get their data from XDG_DATA_DIRS. And you say that, well, they don't
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| 04:40 | You don't happen to have an "applications" dir in /usr/share/gnome, right?
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| 04:41 | <muppis> Nope.
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| 04:41 | <alkisg> I don't know what goes wrong. Wanna vnc?
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| 04:42 | <muppis> Why not.
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| 04:42 | <alkisg> x11vnc -connect alkisg.dyndns.org
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| 04:42 | From the thin client
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| 04:43 | <muppis> Be my guest.
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| 04:48 | <alkisg> muppis: ok, left vnc
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| 04:48 | You have customized menus for that user
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| 04:48 | Those override the ltsp generated ones
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| 04:48 | Remove the .local/share/applications folder
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| 04:48 | <muppis> Ok.
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| 04:58 | <muppis> alkisg, hey, thanks. Now only google-earth is missing.
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| 05:12 | <alkisg> muppis: drag it on gedit and see its path
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| 05:12 | bbl
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| 05:33 | brunolambert (~brunolamb@2001:470:8829:1000:221:6aff:fe94:21d8) joined #ltsp. | |
| 05:36 | shawnp0wers (~spowers@linuxjournal/staff/shawnp0wers) joined #ltsp. | |
| 05:39 | <robehend11> if i install LTSP on a 11.04 box, will my clients get Unity as their interface? I'm wanting to see how it performs.
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| 05:45 | <brunolambert> robehend11: sure
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| 05:45 | <robehend11> ah, cool. guess i have a weekend project
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| 05:45 | bobby_C (~bobby@85-124-22-227.teleworker.xdsl-line.inode.at) joined #ltsp. | |
| 05:46 | <brunolambert> if you get the edubuntu version of it, you can install LTSP at installation time by checking a box
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| 05:47 | <robehend11> if i'm not mistaken, the Edubuntu 11.04 doesnt include unity.
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| 05:50 | <andygraybeal> how do i get the localapps (like firefox) to have the 'ubuntu look and feel' and not just the 'xwindows' feel?
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| 05:52 | <robehend11> if i'm not mistaken, thats the gtk themeing, correct?
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| 05:53 | <muppis> Looks like it.
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| 05:53 | <robehend11> so you'd have to throw the whole gtk setup into a localapp as well, I'm guessing. Unless it could be tied into ltsp-remoteapps somehow..
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| 05:54 | <andygraybeal> aah
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| 05:54 | so gtk theming is huge?
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| 05:55 | and probably a bad thing if i do install it?
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| 05:59 | <robehend11> andygraybeal: no idea, actually. never really minded enough to find out haha
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| 06:00 | generally though, less you put in the chroot, faster it runs, as its loading less over the network
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| 06:01 | <andygraybeal> robehend11, awesome thank you sounds good.
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| 06:01 | <robehend11> no problem.
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| 06:17 | Gadi (~romm@ool-18bbe47a.static.optonline.net) joined #ltsp. | |
| 06:20 | <robehend11> wow. i'm surprised how quick unity is running on an old celeron with 512 megs of ram. Impressive
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| 06:26 | <alkisg> As a thin client?
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| 06:27 | <robehend11> oh, not yet. Thats the next step. I wanted to make sure it would be usual on a stand-alone first ;)
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| 06:27 | <alkisg> I found it slower than old gnome on my daughters atom/1g ram
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| 06:27 | <robehend11> i'm noticing slower boot times, but after I'm in, it seems pretty responsive
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| 06:28 | <alkisg> I liked the extra screen space though
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| 06:28 | <robehend11> agreed. I also like how it auto-fullscreens and gets out of the way
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| 06:31 | though i do wish it would let me get rid of the Applications and Menu switcher launchers. I'm getting this setup for preschool, and they click EVERYTHING
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| 06:32 | <alkisg> Yeah it needs much policing. I don't care for the workspace switcher myself, never understood the meaning of multiple workspaces (yet with the same desktop icons)
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| 06:33 | <andygraybeal> so cute :) (preschoolers clicking @ everything!)
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| 06:33 | <robehend11> I use multiple workspaces only when I dont have multiple monitors.
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| 06:33 | andygraybeal: tell that to how many mice they go through. It's amazing.
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| 06:34 | <andygraybeal> i used to work at a prison system (several prisons) before optical mice... the inmates would always steal the balls.. and supposedly smoke them.. but i never believed who told me this.
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| 06:34 | <alkisg> robehend11: how do you use them? You put firefox/evolution on one of them, and e.g. openoffice/gedit on the other? It seems to me that would take lots of clicks and organization with little to gain (I always use maximized windows anyway)
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| 06:34 | Smoke the mouse balls?!!!!
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| 06:35 | <andygraybeal> yes, someone told me that, i think he was puling my leg, i was 19
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| 06:36 | <robehend11> alkisg: depends on what i'm doing. But ya, text editor on one, firefox on another. or 2 firefox windows, if for some reason i dont want to sue tabs.
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| 06:36 | alkisg: finally got rid of mouse balls. No longer will I have them flying around the labs :D
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| 06:36 | <andygraybeal> robehend11, yes, the invention of optical mice is awesome.
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| 06:37 | * alkisg had serial mice up until 2 years ago | |
| 06:37 | <robehend11> so did we :(
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| 06:37 | <andygraybeal> no cleaning the little rollers either
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| 06:37 | <robehend11> we've updated now to PS2 Opticals! wooo
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| 06:37 | <andygraybeal> :)
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| 06:38 | <robehend11> though I did find that our kindergarten decided to see what was inside one of them, and based it open with a snow boot
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| 06:38 | they were dissapointed with their findings
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| 06:38 | nosedrum (~quassel@92.103.117.4) joined #ltsp. | |
| 06:38 | <nosedrum> hi there
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| 06:38 | <robehend11> hello!
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| 06:38 | <nosedrum> i have a issue -_-
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| 06:39 | client not boot anymore
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| 06:39 | <robehend11> has anything changed in your enviroment since the last clean boot?
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| 06:39 | <nosedrum> no
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| 06:39 | error boot: initramfs
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| 06:39 | <robehend11> what happens when you try to boot?
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| 06:39 | <nosedrum> i have a clue in syslog:
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| 06:40 | Apr 29 15:29:28 ltsp_a19 dhcpd: DHCPDISCOVER from 00:04:23:1b:02:c8 via eth0
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| 06:40 | Apr 29 15:29:28 ltsp_a19 dhcpd: DHCPOFFER on 192.168.19.51 to 00:04:23:1b:02:c8 via eth0
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| 06:40 | Apr 29 15:29:30 ltsp_a19 dhcpd: DHCPREQUEST for 192.168.19.51 (192.168.19.1) from 00:04:23:1b:02:c8 via eth0
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| 06:40 | Apr 29 15:29:30 ltsp_a19 dhcpd: DHCPACK on 192.168.19.51 to 00:04:23:1b:02:c8 via eth0
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| 06:40 | Apr 29 15:29:30 ltsp_a19 in.tftpd[7862]: tftp: client does not accept options
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| 06:40 | last line
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| 06:40 | <robehend11> hmm. well thats odd. Have you tried the old standby of just rebooting the server, see if DHCP cleans itself up?
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| 06:40 | <alkisg> That warning isn't something significant. distro/version?
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| 06:41 | <nosedrum> pxe boot -> dhcp -> ubuntu logo -> initramfs message (i'm not physicaly on site, final user on phone...)
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| 06:41 | ubuntu 9.04
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| 06:41 | server already rebooted
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| 06:41 | <alkisg> Does he see something on the client, above the initramfs prompt?
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| 06:42 | E.g. complains about nbd?
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| 06:42 | <nosedrum> i tell him...
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| 06:42 | target filesystem doesn't have /bin/init
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| 06:43 | and
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| 06:43 | Non initramfs try passing init=bootarg
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| 06:43 | and many message with mounting fail
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| 06:44 | <alkisg> 9.04 is the old ubuntu version, jaunty, right? Not 10.04...
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| 06:44 | <nosedrum> yes
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| 06:44 | <alkisg> And you say there were no updates, no calls to ltsp-update-image etc, correct?
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| 06:44 | <nosedrum> upgrade of our 80 servers in few weeks
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| 06:44 | but this server works since two years
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| 06:44 | but he say he never reboot the client
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| 06:44 | always on logon screen
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| 06:45 | <alkisg> Ah. So it might have broken months ago?
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| 06:45 | <nosedrum> i don"t really know ....
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| 06:45 | <alkisg> OK
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| 06:45 | Does he get a shell?
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| 06:45 | <nosedrum> i have test ltsp-update-image -a i386
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| 06:45 | <alkisg> busybox>
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| 06:45 | <nosedrum> yes busybox
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| 06:45 | <alkisg> So there was a call to ltsp-update-image
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| 06:46 | OK
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| 06:46 | On the client, tell him to try:
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| 06:46 | nbd-client 1.2.3.4 2000 /dev/nbd0
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| 06:46 | Where 1.2.3.4 == server ip
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| 06:46 | <nosedrum> sorry
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| 06:46 | no
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| 06:46 | busybox no
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| 06:46 | last message
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| 06:46 | <alkisg> initramfs> ?
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| 06:47 | <nosedrum> (initramfs) _
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| 06:47 | <alkisg> OK, that's busybox
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| 06:47 | <nosedrum> k
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| 06:47 | <alkisg> Tell him to try that nbd-client command
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| 06:47 | It'll either fail, or say "negotiation... size..." etc
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| 06:47 | <nosedrum> "ndb-client" + enter ?
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| 06:47 | <alkisg> (04:46:14 PM) alkisg: nbd-client 1.2.3.4 2000 /dev/nbd0
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| 06:47 | (04:46:19 PM) alkisg: Where 1.2.3.4 == server ip
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| 06:47 | <nosedrum> ok
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| 06:48 | Last message repeated 1 time(s). | |
| 06:50 | <nosedrum> error connect no route to host
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| 06:50 | network fail ?
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| 06:50 | <alkisg> Maybe there's another dhcp server on his network, giving broken ip addresses
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| 06:50 | <robehend11> nah, he saw the request and offer in syslog for that mac address
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| 06:50 | <alkisg> Tell him to run: ipconfig -n eth0
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| 06:51 | robehend11: that's the pxe requrest
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| 06:51 | Not the ipconfig request
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| 06:51 | <nosedrum> i ask people about a guy who plug wifi routeur or somethin
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| 06:52 | <alkisg> And check the output of ipconfig, if the subnet is the one of the ltsp server or not
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| 06:52 | <nosedrum> who can i find another dhcp ???
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| 06:53 | <alkisg> nosedrum: here's an easy way to verify if that's the problem or not
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| 06:53 | Tell him to run:
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| 06:53 | sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 06:53 | <nosedrum> i have ssh on server
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| 06:53 | <alkisg> Ah nice
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| 06:53 | <nosedrum> i try myself this
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| 06:53 | <alkisg> At the end of that file, put:
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| 06:53 | IPAPPEND 3
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| 06:53 | On a new line
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| 06:53 | Save, and tell him to reboot the client
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| 06:53 | If it's a dhcp problem, that will work around it
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| 06:53 | <nosedrum> root@ltsp_a19:/var/log# cat /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 06:53 | DEFAULT vmlinuz ro initrd=initrd.img quiet splash
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| 06:54 | i put you ine after ?
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| 06:54 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 06:54 | <nosedrum> your line*
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| 06:54 | ok
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| 06:54 | root@ltsp_a19:/var/log# cat /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 06:54 | DEFAULT vmlinuz ro initrd=initrd.img quiet splash
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| 06:54 | IPAPPEND 3
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| 06:54 | they reboot client...
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| 06:55 | <alkisg> Btw, is that a server with 2 nics?
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| 06:55 | <nosedrum> just one
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| 06:55 | it's WORKS !
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| 06:55 | you just Rocks !
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| 06:55 | <alkisg> OK, now here's how to find the rogue dhcp server
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| 06:56 | On your server, run: sudo ipconfig -n /usr/lib/klibc/bin/ipconfig
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| 06:56 | <robehend11> and smack whoever brought it in >:D
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| 06:56 | <alkisg> It will request a dhcp address but will not assign it to the card
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| 06:56 | Sorry
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| 06:56 | Wrong command
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| 06:56 | sudo /usr/lib/klibc/bin/ipconfig -n eth0
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| 06:57 | <nosedrum> good command now ?
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| 06:57 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 06:57 | <nosedrum> ^^
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| 06:57 | k
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| 06:57 | IP-Config: eth0 hardware address 00:23:8b:ce:df:ad mtu 1500 DHCP RARP
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| 06:57 | IP-Config: eth0 complete (from 192.168.1.1):
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| 06:57 | address: 192.168.1.105 broadcast: 255.255.255.255 netmask: 255.255.255.0
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| 06:57 | gateway: 192.168.1.1 dns0 : 192.168.1.1 dns1 : 0.0.0.0
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| 06:57 | rootserver: 192.168.1.1 rootpath:
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| 06:57 | filename :
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| 06:57 | <alkisg> rootserver == the rogue dhcp server
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| 06:57 | 192.168.1.1
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| 06:59 | <andygraybeal> do you guys run evolution as a localapp?
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| 06:59 | <nosedrum> possible
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| 06:59 | <robehend11> nope. I've moved em all to webmail
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| 06:59 | <andygraybeal> robehend11, tell me why? what about calendar ?
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| 06:59 | <robehend11> andygraybeal: becuase Google Apps is free for education :D
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| 07:00 | * alkisg uses evolution to see his gmail + google calendar etc :D | |
| 07:00 | <robehend11> ;)
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| 07:00 | I just went with webmail, cuz then students/staff will remember how to get there out of the office, mostly
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| 07:00 | <alkisg> Evolution requires gconf, I think apps that need gconf don't play well as localapps
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| 07:00 | <robehend11> easy enough to tell em to go to mail.xxxxx.com, regardless of where they are ;)
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| 07:01 | <andygraybeal> alkisg, okay, thank you for clearing that up for me
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| 07:01 | robehend11, agreed that
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| 07:01 | <alkisg> andygraybeal: it's been more than a year since we last talked about gconf in the chroot here, so you'd better try it yourself to verify it's still problematic
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| 07:02 | <andygraybeal> i'd rather just take your word :)
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| 07:02 | <alkisg> :)
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| 07:02 | <nosedrum> O MY GOD !
| |
| 07:02 | | |
| 07:02 | <robehend11> kill it with fire?
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| 07:03 | Wow, Netopia? They still work?
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| 07:03 | <nosedrum> a guy use it from bellow as a switch !!!!!
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| 07:03 | lol
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| 07:04 | <robehend11> fun when people add stuff to the network without asking, isn't it?
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| 07:04 | <nosedrum> and a dhcp server turn on it...
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| 07:04 | <alkisg> nosedrum: that'll "teach" you to make your servers autoritative ;0
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| 07:05 | (i.e. to send NACKs for rogue dhcp offers)
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| 07:07 | <nosedrum> sure alkisg
| |
| 07:07 | have you more explanation about IPAPPEND 3 ? i'm curoious and not understand this totaly
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| 07:08 | <alkisg> It instructs pxelinux to pass the IP it got in the pxe stage as a kernel parameter
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| 07:08 | Then the initramfs reuses the pxe ip, instead of asking for a new one
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| 07:08 | <nosedrum> nice !
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| 07:08 | <alkisg> In the pxe stage, your clients ignore the rogue offers, because those don't have a boot filename
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| 07:08 | <nosedrum> thx for all ! you really rocks guys !
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| 07:09 | <alkisg> So with ipappend 3 it works even with rogue dhcp servers. But sure it's good to shut them down anyway.
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| 07:09 | You're welcome
| |
| 07:09 | <nosedrum> there is a donate page for ltsp, i'll try to demand my boss to donate some money to that magic project and community
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| 07:19 | <Gadi> there is a donate page for LTSP? blasphemy
| |
| 07:19 | * Gadi wonders who is collecting.... :) | |
| 07:20 | <alkisg> It's for the lobsters in BTS :P
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| 07:21 | <Gadi> in that case, I don't think they could possibly take in enough :P
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| 07:48 | <andygraybeal> would you guys bother to run inkscape or gimp locally?
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| 07:49 | or openoffice
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| 07:49 | <alkisg> Why not go for fat clients then?
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| 07:49 | <andygraybeal> yea, that's not what i'm trying to do
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| 07:50 | i'm querying for the general feeling though - i guess it's basically firefox, flash... java plugin... ?
| |
| 07:50 | that normlaly gets run locally to conserve resources
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| 07:51 | * alkisg never uses localapps, either plain thin or plain fat | |
| 07:51 | <alkisg> (on < 500 ram or > 500 PCs respectively)
| |
| 07:52 | <andygraybeal> ok
| |
| 07:53 | i still don't quite understand the fat client.. but that's me needing to read more.
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| 07:53 | <alkisg> Imagine all localapps
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| 07:53 | <andygraybeal> it took me long enough to understand the thin client :)
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| 07:54 | <alkisg> E.g. tux*, impress, google earth, flash, 3d apps, games won't play very well on thin clients
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| 07:54 | But they play fine as localapps or on fat clients
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| 07:54 | Everything that needs exceesive screen updating
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| 07:54 | <andygraybeal> so fat clients have HD's right?
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| 07:55 | <alkisg> No
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| 07:55 | <andygraybeal> okay, yes confusing. i'm sorry
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| 07:55 | <alkisg> It's still ltsp
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| 07:55 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 07:55 | <andygraybeal> yes, reading now. let me take a second.
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| 07:55 | <alkisg> A fat chroot automatically boots good PCs as fat clients, and low ram PCs as thin clients
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| 07:55 | <andygraybeal> oh craziness
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| 07:56 | <alkisg> So it's really easy to administer
| |
| 07:56 | bbl
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| 09:51 | <andrew_ubuntu> Hi all. Got an interesting problem. I have several Asus EEE Box PCs that use a JMicron JMC25x ethernet card (module jme.ko). They fail to boot on Ubuntu 9.10 due to a bug in the module for that kernel. I have tried Ubuntu 10.10 and they boot, but they will crash back to a login when we try and run a remote app from another linux box (I suspect an XORG error).
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| 09:53 | <andrew_ubuntu> I thought about building a new kernel in the Ubuntu 9.10 chroot, but I do not know how to do this. I also thought about getting USB Ethernet adapters, but do not know if this would even work, or support pxe,etc. My only other thought was to copy the jme.ko kernel from the Ubuntu 10.10 chroot and put it in the 9.10 chroot, rebuild the image... but that failed to boot as well. Any other thoughts on how to get around this?
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| 09:54 | <robehend11> andrew_ubuntu: Have you looked at the video card drivers? If i remember right, alot of those EEEBoxes have Ions, which need the binary driver from Nvidia to do their job right
| |
| 09:55 | That was the fix for my Acer Aspire Revo boxes, which are quite similiar, at least
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| 09:55 | <andrew_ubuntu> these are Intel, which I specifically made sure they had because of all the problems I've had with ATI/Nvidia.
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| 09:55 | <robehend11> ah, nvm then ;)
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| 09:57 | <andrew_ubuntu> And, as far as the remote app that we run, I evoke that using SSH, but I cannot find any specific errors as to why it crashes the desktop.
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| 09:57 | <robehend11> weird. I've only had drivers for nics either work great or not at all. :(
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| 09:57 | ooo, luch, bbl
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| 09:57 | lunch*
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| 09:57 | <alkisg> andrew_ubuntu: which intels? 8xx?
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| 09:58 | <andrew_ubuntu> My only other option is to try OpenSuSE or Fedora...
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| 09:58 | <alkisg> lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA
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| 09:58 | <andrew_ubuntu> let me check the video card...
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| 10:00 | the odd thing is, my server is Ubuntu 9.10, so I got the bright idea that I would just build a Ubuntu 10.10 chroot and NOT change the server....this will boot those boxes, but they still crash when I run that in-house app. So, it obviously has something to do with the chroot, not the server.
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| 10:01 | The video card is Intel 945GME (rev 03)
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| 10:03 | Does anyone have experience with USB Ethernet adapters? I didn't even think of trying that until today.
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| 10:05 | these boxes do have wireless ethernet... that is another thought, and I have read something about a way to boot via wireless (in a roundabout way).
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| 10:08 | <andrew_ubuntu> well, I am off to lunch... if anyone can think of anything to try I will be eternally grateful!!!
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| 10:10 | <vagrantc> andrew_ubuntu: there have been a lot of changes in the X.org drivers since 9.10
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| 11:21 | <andrew_ubuntu> vagrantc: I hope it is not XORG related then and just something simple. One test I did not run was to see if a box w/o the JMicro NIC does the same thing. I am going to try that now. That will at least rule out the NIC being the problem.
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| 11:43 | <andrew_ubuntu> Yup, it crashes even on a terminal w/o the JMicro NIC :(
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| 11:43 | <alkisg> andrew_ubuntu: did those terminals *not* crash with some distro?
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| 11:43 | (or version)/
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| 11:44 | <andrew_ubuntu> So, looks like I really only have 2 choices. Try a different Distro, or contact our software ppl and have them fix it (could potentially be lots of money which is why I haven't gone that route yet).
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| 11:44 | <alkisg> Or it might be something simple like disabling compiz :)
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| 11:44 | (which is on by default)
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| 11:45 | <andrew_ubuntu> alkisg: Ya, I turned off compiz. I have not tried another distro yet though... might be my next move.
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| 11:45 | <alkisg> How did you turn off compiz?
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| 11:45 | And why are you trying 9.10 and not e.g. 10.04 which is more recent + an lts?
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| 11:45 | <andrew_ubuntu> under appearance... selected none
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| 11:47 | I tried 10.10, had the crashing problems, so then I just went to 9.10 which I knew worked because I already have one branch using that. That is when I discovered the JMicro's don't boot. 10.04 doesn't allow the JMicros to boot either.
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| 11:47 | <alkisg> You can easily add the jmicro module to the initramfs
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| 11:47 | It's just 1 line
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| 11:47 | And being an lts, you can also easily try the maverick or natty kernels
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| 11:47 | (those kernels are backported for lts releases)
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| 11:48 | <andrew_ubuntu> how do you add those kernels? (I did have to add the jme.ko to the initramfs otherwise it would not detect).
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| 11:49 | <alkisg> Here's the proper way to add the jme module: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AddingModules
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| 11:49 | <andrew_ubuntu> yup, that is the page I followed.
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| 11:49 | <alkisg> And to add a new kernel, you just install the package, e.g. for maverick it is...
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| 11:49 | linux-image-generic-lts-backport-maverick
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| 11:50 | That always depends on the maverick kernel, so it even gets updated automatically
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| 11:50 | And linux-image-generic-lts-backport-natty for 2.6.38
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| 11:51 | Finally, when the crash happens, check xorg.log and ~/.xsession-errors for that user
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| 11:55 | <andygraybeal> i'm going to try the fatclient setup right now :)
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| 12:04 | <andrew_ubuntu> alkisg: ya, I've checked .xsession-errors and nothing pops out at me. I've even checked the logs in the chroot at the time of crash. nothing even gets logged. I am going to try and install linux-image-generic-lts-backport-maverick in my 9.10 chroot, but I don't see that package listed. Do I need to add a PPA to get that?
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| 12:08 | <alkisg> andrew_ubuntu: no, you need to install an LTS release for that, i.e. 10.04. :)
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| 12:09 | <andrew_ubuntu> oic
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| 12:10 | I overlooked the blatant LTS part of linux-image-generic-lts-backport-maverick lol
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| 12:12 | well, I think I will either try installing 10.04 w/ the Maverick kernel, or I will try OpenSuSE. I will stop back if I run into any developments. Thanks for all your help!
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| 12:12 | <alkisg> I'd try nomodeset first :)
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| 13:45 | <andygraybeal> alright, i am running fat clients in my testing! amazing!
| |
| 13:46 | i am having a problem with the script 'ltsp-enter-chroot' .. copied/pasted what is on this page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients - then i chmod +x'd it. when i run it it says "syntax error: "(" unexpected. i'm running 10.04
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| 13:54 | <alkisg> andygraybeal: there's a newer "ltsp-chroot" utility upstream in LTSP, use that instead
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| 13:55 | <andygraybeal> okay, i'm not sure how to do that sort of thing... 'upstream' and all like trouts.
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| 13:55 | is there documentation?\
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| 13:55 | <alkisg> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/view/head:/server/scripts/debian/ltsp-chroot
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| 13:55 | <andygraybeal> k awsome
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| 13:56 | woah, vagrantc is a part of freegeek?! awesome!
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| 13:56 | <alkisg> Please also delete the "ltsp-enter-chroot" it from the wiki page and put the above link :)
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| 13:56 | <andygraybeal> okay, i have to create user account, two seconds.
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| 13:57 | <alkisg> So to "enter chroot", you run: sudo ltsp-chroot -p
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| 13:58 | <andygraybeal> awesome, sounds great. can't wait.
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| 13:58 | ltsp is the most awesomness
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| 14:01 | where would the file live?
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| 14:04 | <alkisg> Put it in /usr/sbin so that it gets overwritten if you ever get a newer ltsp version which contains it
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| 14:04 | <andygraybeal> cool
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| 14:43 | <dgroos> Not sure why, but I can see video on the server but not on the thin clients (running localapps).
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| 14:43 | <andygraybeal> what type of video?
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| 14:43 | <dgroos> I've installed any and all video components into the chroot as I could finde.
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| 14:44 | mpg4
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| 14:44 | <andygraybeal> mplayer doesn't play it?
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| 14:44 | <dgroos> which I used to be able to see. Actually, I can see flash--just that's not what I need my students to see.
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| 14:44 | mplayer, vlc, gzine don't work.
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| 14:47 | <andygraybeal> i'm sure someone will be around that can help.. i can't really help
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| 14:47 | does vlc actually open?
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| 14:47 | <dgroos> andygraybeal: thanks for getting things started.
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| 14:48 | Yes. vlc works well on the server and looks like it would do the best I think, but it shows a blue screen instead of the video. The audio work.
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| 14:48 | <andygraybeal> i'm sure you made sure the right codecs are installed?
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| 14:50 | <dgroos> As far as I could, did all the multimedia install pages I could find in the Ubuntu wiki. Also, did more than 1 blog post. Pretty much they were just getting repetitive so that's why I think I got them all...
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| 14:51 | <andygraybeal> sorry it's obvious, but did you check to make sure it's actually the localapps running vlc?
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| 14:51 | <dgroos> It's weird that the mp4's were working both with stand alone player and with firefox earlier in the year, they were working flawlessly, but now don't work. Never figured out when it happened though since we didn't do video for a while.
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| 14:52 | hmmmm... obvious to one might be opaque to another ;) I'll check.
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| 14:54 | <dlbass> Hi, vagrantc!
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| 14:56 | I put together a simple guide using the steps you taught me on Monday. I thought it might be a nice thing to see about adding to the documentation for LTSP. Here is a link to it if you get time to check it out. https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1SBVIywwUid9ElFa1uOAGI1ILYrrxu_wNWwGIu1QnMNU
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| 14:57 | <andygraybeal> dgroos, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPLocalAppSetup <--- this website says to run 'ltsp-localapps programname' ... ltsp-localapps vlc
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| 14:57 | see if it works
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| 14:58 | i'm new, so i'm not expecting to be much help to you.
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| 14:58 | <dgroos> andygraybeal: thanks, I'll check it out.
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| 14:58 | 2 heads are better than 1... :)
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| 14:59 | <dlbass> hey andygraybeal
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| 14:59 | ho'ws it going?
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| 15:00 | <andygraybeal> hi dlbass.. it is good. i just learned how to set up fat clients today! i'm running it in a test environment! i'm waiting on a confirmation code so i can help edit the ltsp wiki
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| 15:01 | <dlbass> what do you mena by fat clients exactly?
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| 15:01 | <andygraybeal> that's exactly what i said.. it took me the longest time to wrap my head around thin clients.... check this out: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 15:02 | the machines don't have hd's like thin clients... but they should have more memory - -and all the applications get offloaded into the clients memory space!
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| 15:02 | so it taxes the clients more, and the server less.
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| 15:02 | <dlbass> that is awesome!
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| 15:03 | we might have to check into that.
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| 15:03 | <andygraybeal> if all yuor machiens have >500 fat clients ar a good choice. all my boxes i got from an auction @ around $30 .. and they all have 1GB of ram.
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| 15:03 | err >500MB
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| 15:03 | yea, alkisg walked me through it today
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| 15:04 | i got an 8GB server.. and it's crammed jammed... i need some relief.. and this will be it.
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| 15:05 | <dlbass> that's cool. We can get a lot of free computers from the local community college for free that would have 500Mb to 1Gb of ram. And with the possibilty of ripping the HDD out and throwing them into a lab it might be worth it.
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| 15:05 | I will have to tell my boss about it. How much performance increase did you get?
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| 15:07 | <andygraybeal> i'm just testing for today - but the server is running with about 400MB of memory and the client is running firefox using 167mb of memory .... times that by however many people are using firefox by however many tabs they have open :)
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| 15:08 | yea, i'm pretty lucky... i can buy p4 machines from a local university auction w/ 1gb+ of memory in them for about $30 every quarter. there is quite a selection. i test every machine before the auction.
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| 15:09 | <dlbass> I shall read into this fat client stuff. Currently I am trying to get my second network card to work, but it does not want to. I have one that is working for the LTSP connection, and one that I want to connect me to the internet. Fresh install of Edubuntu 10.10
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| 15:10 | <andygraybeal> i'm conservative... 10.04 till 2015 :)
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| 15:10 | or something
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| 15:11 | <dlbass> I might should have done that. I like natty a lot so far, so I was planning to upgrade this machine to that...
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| 15:12 | <andygraybeal> i'll thik about it in 12.04 comes out i think that's the next ltsp
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| 15:12 | er... LTP
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| 15:12 | LTS
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| 15:14 | <dlbass> ah
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| 15:14 | grub is also broken on this machine
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| 15:14 | It is such a turd.
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| 15:17 | well guys, I'm off, cya later!
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| 15:18 | <andygraybeal> dgroos, did yuo try running 'ltsp-localapps program_name' to see if something came up?
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| 15:43 | <dgroos> andygraybeal: coming back to the irc...
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| 15:43 | I've been testing lots of things.
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| 15:43 | I tried to run .mov, .mp4, .flv and none work on the client. All work on the server. .flv works on firefox.
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| 15:44 | I ran a .mov locally with vlc, it didn't work, but I did open up a local term and found it WAS running locally on the client.
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| 15:45 | I just used the 'ltsp-localapps vlc' and got similar results--audio but no video.
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| 15:45 | I wasn't able to run either gxine or mplayer with ltsp-localapps. That might be interesting...
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| 15:49 | just figured I had to use 'totem' for name of movie player, it launched but wouldn't play the video. They complain about different plugins not installed.
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| 15:50 | <abeehc> have you done ubuntu-restricted-extras?
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| 15:51 | <dgroos> abeehc: yes, both in chroot and regular root.
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| 15:51 | <abeehc> vlc rules nevermind anyway
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| 15:51 | i'd focus there.. vlc has a "messages' log that might be helpful
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| 15:51 | <dgroos> (I agree!)
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| 15:51 | <abeehc> iu'm just jumpin in; what video hardware are we talking about?
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| 15:52 | ohh, have you disabled compiz?
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| 15:52 | <dgroos> client with onboard video. Yes I've disabled compiz.
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| 15:53 | The clients ran both locally and via firefox earlier in the year so I know the hardware works.
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| 15:53 | <abeehc> i'd wonder what "xvinfo" says on the client
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| 15:53 | i think that's relevant notsure
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| 15:54 | <dgroos> (trying to get back to my local terminal...)
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| 15:56 | how does one copy text from a local terminal? right clicking isn't working...
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| 16:02 | <dgroos> abeehc: OK, couldn't copy the text but took screen shot and pastebin-ed the image at: http://imagepaste.nullnetwork.net/viewimage.php?id=2166
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| 16:03 | <abeehc> I think that lacks a section that my client shows lemme just see.. not sure it's the issue but who knows
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| 16:04 | have you set color depth in lts.conf?
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| 16:04 | <dgroos> no...
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| 16:05 | <abeehc> maybe do vlc -vvvvvvvv filename and paste the output?
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| 16:05 | <dgroos> That brings me to something I've been thinking for a while, we need a repository of sort of simple, sample, lts.conf files. Would you post part of yours? I'll put it in my blog, attributed to you.
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| 16:06 | <abeehc> mine's not that simple... the ltsp-docs package and man lts.conf is what i rely on
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| 16:07 | <dgroos> I liked the docs though often can't decipher the man pages.
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| 16:08 | <abeehc> the most basic would simply be http://pastebin.com/pfqD7EvW
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| 16:08 | it used to be ltsparameters.txt but then it moved into the man page. I think there are good simple examples of the bottom of the man page
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| 16:08 | i imagine more interesting samples coould become a part of ltsp-docs not sure
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| 16:09 | <dgroos> OK, still don't know how to save output from a local xterm to my desktop... and there was too much output to do screen shots... command?
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| 16:09 | <abeehc> well the package pastebininit makes it easy
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| 16:09 | but i myself, have openssh in the chroot
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| 16:10 | <dgroos> thanks for the sample lts.conf -- I've got that most basic--am running firefox and another program as localapp all the time.
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| 16:12 | I'll take a look at the pastebininit, thanks. And, unfortunately I've got to let go of this problem right now but good news... It will still be there tomorrow! ;)
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| 16:12 | <abeehc> my xvinfo matches onthe client so that's no issue
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| 16:12 | <dgroos> thanks abeehc and andygraybeal
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| 16:12 | <abeehc> good luck
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| 16:13 | <dgroos> cool, thanks.
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| 21:55 | <listpi> when ltsp client is booting in kiosk mode .....it stuck with
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| 21:55 | (initramfs )
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| 21:55 | and not giving firefox
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| 21:55 | any solution
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| 22:29 | <chupacabra> http://boppin.com/neruda.html
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| 22:42 | <listpi> ltsp installation fail in 9.10 karmic
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| 22:42 | wat to do
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| 23:38 | <listpi> ltsp installation fail in 9.10 ubuntu
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| 23:39 | any solution
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| 00:00 | --- Sat Apr 30 2011 | |