IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 27 March 2010 (all times are UTC)
| 01:10 | * alkisg succeeded in sending commands to the clients _and_ receiving output, both to root+the user session, using a bash-based command server on the clients and a bash/openbsd-inetd based listener on the server! Finally! :) | |
| 01:17 | <cyberorg> alkisg, http://www.novell.com/documentation/nlpos9/?page=/documentation/nlpos9/nlpos9_admin/data/bv39ac1.html
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| 01:18 | <alkisg> cyberorg: thanks, but I think I really got it right, with encryption and everything
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| 01:18 | I'm using LDM_SSHOPTIONS="-L 9570:localhost:9570" in lts.conf to securely pass the commands to the client sessions
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| 01:19 | <cyberorg> cool :)
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| 01:19 | <alkisg> And I'm also able to get binary output, e.g. thumbnails of the client screen
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| 01:19 | And all that in bash (it has native tcp support)! I've never been too fond of bash, but now I changed my mind! :)
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| 01:20 | On the server I'm using openbsd-inetd, which is already there - so all that's needed are 2 small bash scripts...
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| 01:20 | ...and the commands are sent by a file socket, which can even support file-based authentication...
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| 01:20 | * alkisg goes on to package this as "sch-ltsp-server/client" :) | |
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| 01:51 | <alkisg> moldy, if you're interested, I'd like to hear your opinion on how to package this so that it's useful for other setups, not just greek schools...
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| 01:52 | I'm thinking two packages: ltsp-cmd-server / ltsp-cmd-client, and a ltsp-cmd-send binary which the admin will use to send commands to the terminals or the users
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| 01:52 | E.g. `ltsp-cmd-send pc12 poweroff` or `ltsp-cmd-send user123 get-screenshot`
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| 07:04 | <Q-FUNK> re
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| 07:05 | <alkisg> !localdev
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| 07:05 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "localdev" :: (#1) Information regarding using pluggable devices and cdroms with LTSP can be found at http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LTSP-42-LocalDev, or (#2) for ubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnableLTSP5LocalDevices, or (#3) for debian-edu: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/HowTo/LocalDeviceLtspfs, or (#4) http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev
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| 07:16 | <Q-FUNK> ogra! :)
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| 07:34 | <Ctek> hi guys, can someone give me some info regarding a "fat client" setup ?
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| 07:36 | <alkisg> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 07:37 | <Ctek> alkisg :) thank , i did parse that :)
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| 07:37 | <alkisg> Ctek: ah, you mean some specific info/question? Sure, shoot
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| 07:37 | <Ctek> the info i was looking is to diskuss some points that i do not fully understand :)
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| 07:38 | I have setup the server with nfs, tftp, syslinux etc
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| 07:38 | i did a install on a client then copied the / into the tftp server under /ubuntu
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| 07:38 | exported ok, edited the fstab (i hope correctly) but ... still no luck
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| 07:39 | <alkisg> What distro/version is this?
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| 07:39 | <Ctek> kubuntu 9.10
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| 07:39 | but i have tried also ubuntu
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| 07:39 | karmic and hardy
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| 07:39 | <alkisg> There's no upstream fat client support in hardy
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| 07:40 | <Ctek> the problem that i see ... is that when it boots the fstab is not loading correctly the root
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| 07:40 | <alkisg> You don't need to modify fstab
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| 07:40 | You just need to put NFS_HOME=/home in lts.conf
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| 07:40 | <Ctek> although when the console apears in the midddle of the boot proces the root is /
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| 07:40 | :) it dosen't go that far in the boot process
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| 07:40 | it says that the root cannot be mounted or found
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| 07:40 | <alkisg> Do you have stgraber's ppa in your sources? what ltsp version do you have?
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| 07:41 | dpkg -l ltsp-server and sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg -l ltsp-client
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| 07:41 | <Ctek> i don't use ltsp, i just want to use fatclient (or maybe i'm not explaining corectly wat i want to do)
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| 07:42 | <alkisg> Ctek: fat clients are based on ltsp
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| 07:42 | <Ctek> i think i hould start all over again from the start :) sorry if i did not explain corectly
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| 07:42 | <alkisg> You can't use the ltsp fat client method without installing ltsp...
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| 07:42 | OK, go ahead
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| 07:43 | <Ctek> I did tried LTSP setup and "Fat client setup" but that did not work as expected, if you remember from last week :)
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| 07:43 | so... now i tried the "diskless" option
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| 07:43 | <alkisg> Nope, I don't remember anyone trying fat clients and not getting them working...
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| 07:43 | <Ctek> this is wat i'm tring now ... to boot and run a diskless
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| 07:44 | the discution was about puting LTSP into eBox, you did point me to some neat stuff but i switched the work in diskless direction
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| 07:46 | anyway, between diskles and fat are indeed some major differences but if you can make me understand on how the fstab and other files sould be modified... to make it work :)
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| 07:46 | <alkisg> What do you mean "diskless"? Fat clients *are* discless
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| 07:46 | How are you planning on booting the clients?
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| 07:46 | <Ctek> diskless is to boot the SO from a server without loading the server with compute processess
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| 07:46 | from pxe
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| 07:46 | <alkisg> That's fat client
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| 07:47 | My kid is playing games in a laptop beside me that does not have a hard disk
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| 07:47 | It's not a thin client, it's a fat client served by ltsp
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| 07:47 | <Ctek> in the docs there ware some differences but i also tink that they are related
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| 07:47 | but in your setup the laptop is using the same so as the server ?
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| 07:48 | in diskless client setup you could serve with pxe any so (in theory)
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| 07:48 | <alkisg> What is "so"? Do you mean "os"?
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| 07:48 | The fat client is served with pxe
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| 07:48 | <Ctek> yes :) in my lang it is reverse
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| 07:49 | <alkisg> You can't use the same os. You don't want two servers...
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| 07:49 | You don't want to load nfs server, nbd server, pxe server etc on the client
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| 07:49 | <Ctek> :)
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| 07:50 | correct, you are right
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| 07:50 | that's why i did install kubuntu on the client and then cp to the share folder in server
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| 07:50 | <alkisg> A, so you're trying to invent your own method?
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| 07:50 | That also won't work. :)
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| 07:50 | <Ctek> but the thing is that the "repair console" apears in the middle of the boot process
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| 07:51 | <alkisg> If you invest a few months on your method, you'll come up with a new ltsp implementation
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| 07:51 | <Ctek> i tried to install with debootstrap but that only made things worse ...
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| 07:51 | <alkisg> All that you're trying to do is what ltsp does
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| 07:52 | <Ctek> yes but wit ltsp i did have a load of 75 % on the cpu with 1 client
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| 07:52 | <alkisg> With fat clients you won't have any load at all
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| 07:52 | <Ctek> i indeed have a lousy server but when serving only nfs i have 0.8 % load
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| 07:52 | <alkisg> As everything will be processed by the client.
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| 07:53 | <Ctek> yes that's what i want also :)
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| 07:53 | <alkisg> Do read the wiki page I linked above. I believe it's *exactly* what you're looking for.
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| 07:53 | <Ctek> ok, now sumarising what i have explain until now, do you think that it is a fstab problem? i do not export the / correctly or what can it be ?
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| 07:54 | <alkisg> No, I need it's a "you didn't implement diskless workstations" problem
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| 07:54 | <Ctek> i did modify the / to be rwx to nobody
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| 07:54 | <alkisg> You'll need a few months of coding to get it working
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| 07:54 | <Ctek> :)
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| 07:55 | so... diskless booting is to hard to make it work..... ?
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| 07:55 | <alkisg> LTSP needed 10 years to get diskless booting working
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| 07:55 | That's exactly what ltsp is for
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| 07:56 | So if you want to reinvent it, go ahead, but don't expect it to work by just changing fstab...
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| 07:56 | <Ctek> no, of course i do not want to reinvent the LTSP ... :)
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| 07:57 | but diskless booting was working before LTSP...
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| 07:58 | <alkisg> Yes, but that was before all those services that do not work with a plain nfs root
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| 07:58 | <Ctek> no offence to LTSP users/developers, but i wanted a more simple aproach to the problem:)
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| 07:58 | <alkisg> Live CD booting has casper to deal with exactly those problems - that the services are not designed to work with a read only system
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| 07:59 | Ctek: I tried what you're trying now this summer. I even succeeded in booting the client over nfs
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| 07:59 | <Ctek> hm... you might be right with this, i did not see this ....
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| 07:59 | <alkisg> I named the project "twin clients" because it was using the root of the server, not a separate virtual disk
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| 07:59 | Then I got hit by all those services that had problems
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| 08:00 | After solving the first 5-10 problems, I realized I was reinventing ltsp...
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| 08:00 | <Ctek> :)
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| 08:00 | <alkisg> So I invested in ltsp fat clients instead. And it's working fine, no server cpu load at all.
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| 08:01 | <Ctek> ok, from what you are sayng i deduce that i had a faulty LTSP - fat client setup with taht load on the srv...
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| 08:01 | <alkisg> You didn't have a fat client setup at all
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| 08:01 | If the server has any load, you're using thin clients, not fat
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| 08:01 | For each connected fat client, I only have 1 ssh process, the logon process
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| 08:02 | Nothing else. No processes/cpu load at all.
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| 08:03 | <Ctek> if you do not mind can you summarise the steps here (trust me i did read all the docs, but maybe explained i can see what i did miss)
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| 08:03 | if you do not mind, ofcourse
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| 08:04 | <alkisg> I've written that page exactly for this purpose: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 08:04 | If you follow that one, from the "preparation" and below, you'll have a working fat client setup
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| 08:05 | If at any step you feel that something's not working, ping me
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| 08:05 | I've tried that with ubuntu/edubuntu, but it should work with all *buntu variants
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| 08:05 | <Ctek> okay, i'l start from scratch again :) Anyway, Thank you for the time and pacience you had with me
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| 08:06 | :)
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| 08:06 | <alkisg> np
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| 08:06 | <Ctek> maybe to someone who understand this it can be boring or seem dumb but i did needed to discuss with someone else beside myself :D
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| 08:07 | I'll let you know about the status of the "Experiment" :)
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| 08:08 | <alkisg> If that's a home setup, I'd suggest Lucid
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| 08:08 | If it's a production setup, Karmic...
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| 08:08 | <Ctek> it will be in production finaly so i stik with karmic
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| 08:08 | <alkisg> ok
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| 08:08 | <Ctek> although the server that i have has hardy on it :)
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| 08:09 | <alkisg> That won't do
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| 08:09 | <Ctek> ??
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| 08:09 | <alkisg> You need lsp-server 5.2
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| 08:09 | <Ctek> :((
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| 08:09 | <alkisg> Fat client support was introduced in ltsp 5.2
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| 08:09 | There are backports for karmic, but not for hardy
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| 08:10 | <Ctek> ok, now a bunch of #$#@* just run trough my mind explaining the load i had on the server
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| 08:10 | <alkisg> (so if you tried with hardy, I'm pretty certain you didn't get fat clients working :))
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| 08:10 | <Ctek> exactly ...
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| 08:10 | how stupid can I get not top see this
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| 08:10 | <alkisg> "This page is specific to Ubuntu versions 9.10, 10.04" :)
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| 08:11 | <Ctek> right, right and right again to you, and wrong, wrong and wrong on my....
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| 08:12 | you were right about fat, and i was wrong to miss taht sentince ....
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| 08:13 | ok, now it should explain some of my problems, not to look for excuses, but reading so many docs i think i did not take into consideration taht warning in the begining...
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| 08:13 | The question is .... Can I install LTSP 5.2 over my distro ?
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| 08:14 | <alkisg> You'd need to backport it yourself
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| 08:15 | <Ctek> hm... i already know the answer to this :D
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| 08:15 | <alkisg> It would take experience and some development skills to do that :)
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| 08:15 | So I guess you could try it on Lucid, get it ready, and update your hardy to lucid in a month that will come out?
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| 08:16 | <Ctek> none of that in large quantities on my behalf, beside some tweaks and some lines of code, nothing to fancy...
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| 08:17 | But, i think i can make it work on having two servers ... the problem is that the LTSP clients wil have to authenticate against the Main LDAP server ....
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| 08:17 | <alkisg> No problem there
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| 08:17 | <Ctek> but that's a long way before that happens
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| 08:18 | I mean, i should test before and see that i do reach the point where i have the server and the clients working flawlesly
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| 08:20 | ok, i'll start today and keep you posted if i do reach some working point :)
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| 08:20 | <alkisg> OK
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| 08:20 | <Ctek> thank you for info and support
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| 08:21 | <alkisg> You're welcome.
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| 10:07 | <moldy> alkisg: sounds fine for me
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| 15:33 | <jammcq> ogra_cmpc: ping
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| 15:35 | I'm at a Lucid bugjam and i'm trying to get my 3g evdo wireless device to work
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| 15:36 | but since they dropped HAL, i don't know what file to find the device mapping
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| 15:43 | <ogra_cmpc> jammcq, likely some udev rule that modemmanager ships (guessing here)
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| 15:45 | <jammcq> ogra_cmpc: hmm, possibly in /lib/udev/rules.d ?
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| 15:45 | that's where I'm looking now, but not finding a map of usb devices
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| 15:46 | <ogra_cmpc> yeah, likely, havce a look at modemmanager
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| 15:46 | <jammcq> look at? not sure what you mean. docs? run a program?
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| 15:46 | my experience with lucid so far has lasted about 10 minutes
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| 15:47 | not familiar with all the new goodies yet
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| 15:48 | <ogra_cmpc> dpkg -L modemmanager
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| 15:49 | and see if it ships any rules files
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| 15:49 | if not, check dmesg if the kernel properly recognizes the device at all
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| 15:49 | all low level hal functionallity moved either into kernel or udev
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| 15:50 | all high level hal functionallity moved one level up (i.e. for xorg into the xinput drivers)
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| 15:51 | <jammcq> according to the dpkg -L, there's a couple 77-mm-X files, but when I go looking in /lib/udev/rules.d, those files aren't actually there
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| 15:54 | <ogra_cmpc> hmm, i see them here
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| 15:55 | <jammcq> hmm
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| 15:57 | holy crap, it works !
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| 15:57 | <ogra_cmpc> what did you do ?
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| 15:57 | <jammcq> this little usb device is actually 2 devices. it's a 3g modem and a USB flash drive
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| 15:58 | <ogra_cmpc> ah, silly windows driver partition ?
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| 15:58 | <jammcq> in the past, I'd have to edit 2 files. one in /etc/udev/rules.d, to tell it to eject the storage device
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| 15:58 | then, it appears as a modem
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| 15:58 | <ogra_cmpc> i have a wlan stick with such crap
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| 15:58 | <jammcq> so i added a new connection in Network manager (maybe modem manager), and it appeared as a choice
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| 15:59 | <ogra_cmpc> heh
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| 15:59 | <jammcq> I used to have to edit 2 files. the udev file, and then a hal file to add the 0x5030 device id
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| 15:59 | but apparently, I don't need to add that entry anymore, cuz it's being recognized automatically now
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| 15:59 | <ogra_cmpc> yeah
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| 15:59 | <jammcq> so... it's actually freaking working :)
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| 15:59 | <ogra_cmpc> send flowers to asac :)
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| 16:00 | <jammcq> heh
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| 16:00 | <ogra_cmpc> he maintains NM and friends
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| 16:00 | <jammcq> cool
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| 16:00 | now, I'll play with nm-openvpn plug-in, see if that works any better
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| 16:00 | <ogra_cmpc> (as well as firefox etc ... and he's my tech lead in mobile)
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