IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 9 July 2007 (all times are UTC)
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| 06:02 | <ecbr> ola a todos, alguem saber fazer funcionar o scroll do mouse nas estacoes ltsp, quais o parametros que tenho que colocar no lts.conf?
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| 06:06 | <cliebow> ecbr:you will have towait til a Spanish speaker joins the channel..
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| 06:06 | <ogra> ecbr, hey, this is an english channel, afaik ther is #ltsp-br
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| 06:07 | so either try english, switch to -br r hopw for a spanish person coming by
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| 06:07 | <Q-FUNK> or that would be brazilian, but never midn that
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| 06:07 | which means a funny kind of portuguese
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| 06:08 | <cliebow> vagrantc "might" be able to help..but sonds like you have a scrollmouse problrem
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| 06:08 | that looks like Spanish
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| 06:08 | 8~)
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| 06:08 | <Q-FUNK> portuguese+spanish=lusitanian, anyhow
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| 06:09 | almost the same language
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| 06:13 | <cliebow> guess we scared him...
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| 06:24 | <Q-FUNK> naa
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| 06:25 | he probably just doesn't speak English, poor lad. i'm guessing that he's a sacix user.
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| 07:19 | <cliebow_> anyone care to give me the quick rundown on bootfromharddisk for "challenged" laptops?
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| 09:25 | <ogra> hrm, where is jammcq if i need him ...
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| 09:25 | <cliebow_> ogra: any thoughts on pcmcia support in initramfs?
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| 09:31 | cdealer has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:33 | <cdealer> hey... what you think about using a QuadCore Xeon 1.60ghz/L2-2x4mb - 8GB DDR2 667mhz - 2x320GB SATA (RAID) for 60Clients?
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| 09:34 | <gvy> sata will suck badly
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| 09:34 | if you ever get down to it with i/o
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| 09:35 | i'd get dualcore or dual cpu system, maybe opteron not woodcrest, but at least 2x SCSI/SAS as a disk subsystem
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| 09:35 | <cdealer> gvy... scsi ?
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| 09:35 | Hmmm
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| 09:35 | the problem is the price that are very high
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| 09:36 | <gvy> raid1 of course (may be softraid but neccessary for reliability when you're gonna lose 60 users' data if anything)
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| 09:36 | cdealer, i've bought used 73g 10k for less than $50 this morning
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| 09:36 | <cdealer> [gvy]:: ebay ?
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| 09:36 | <gvy> and ebay prices are pure disaster (in that they're not accessible here)
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| 09:37 | not ebay but also second hand
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| 09:37 | cdealer, last time i've checked "opteron" in 19" servers on ebay.com there were 4-core (2x2) systems between $1000 and $2000
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| 09:37 | in northern america and australia
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| 09:37 | last week or so
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| 09:38 | btw quad-core xeons aren't even close to twice as good as 51xx...
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| 09:38 | <cdealer> [gvy]:: im talking from brazil... here SCSI are a very expensive ... here the server I was looking for are all about 20K (U$9k)
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| 09:38 | <gvy> only 1.5x, something like that
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| 09:39 | <cdealer> [gvy]:: but you think 8gb of memory could handle 60 Clients?
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| 09:39 | <gvy> cdealer, i wouldn't spend premium money on NEW&IMPROVED cpus :)
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| 09:39 | cdealer, i'm rather sure it could -- got hp proliant with 8x sas raid, 4 opteron cores and 8 gigs
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| 09:40 | it's gonna run 30 clients on half of the memory and half of the disks
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| 09:40 | the problem with sata is that it doesn't really handle parallel i/o :(
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| 09:41 | you could remedy that a bit by using xfs for heavy-duty filesystems but then some smart UPS *and* upsd are a neccessity
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| 09:41 | <cdealer> Hmmm interesting... looking btw it could realy become a problem
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| 09:41 | I must say that in the first look I was thinking that the memory would be a problem... now Im seeing that it could drop to the disks...
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| 09:42 | <gvy> yup
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| 09:42 | <cdealer> [gvy]:: let me see a good proliant option them
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| 09:43 | <gvy> cpu *number* might become a problem if you're getting looping processes but otherwise our office server (desktop X2 4400+) is doing fine for 5 clients with ca. 1gb ram dedicated to those
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| 09:43 | that includes 3 different browsers and 2 different desktops in use :)
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| 09:43 | and browsers tend to be heavily tabbed
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| 09:43 | <blinky_ghost> hi can anybody tell me how do I costumize login window on ldm?
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| 09:44 | <gvy> and that system is working as a build server as well (on separate disks: ide for package archive, scsi for actual build VPSes)
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| 09:44 | that's all stuffed into an openvz on altlinux. :)
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| 09:45 | <cdealer> [gvy]:: I have 3 proliants with QuadCore Xeon (2 processor each) and 4gb of memory each (maximum amount of each board) and 2 200GB SCSI disks (6 disks total)
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| 09:45 | <gvy> cdealer, btw here it's sata soft raid1, another installation with 10 clients is currently sata raid1 too (gonna provide separate disks for more clients planned -- up to 40 there)
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| 09:46 | <cdealer> [gvy]:: you think that one of those box could handle 60 clients of the memory could be a problem ?
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| 09:46 | <gvy> cdealer, can you try load tests on those? e.g. hook up 10 or 30 clients and look what happens?
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| 09:47 | <cdealer> [gvy]:: no.. because the ltsp its to be implemented ... they are being used as firewall, oracle and samba
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| 09:47 | <gvy> cdealer, might handle but then environment should be highly reusable with the whole set of apps running minimized as possible
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| 09:47 | e.g. no different browsers
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| 09:48 | <gvy> and preferably no heavy use of browser windows/tabs -- that tends to eat up most individual ram...
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| 09:48 | <cdealer> [gvy]:: the users will use the system only for internet (firefox), office apps and stuff like that (messengers too)
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| 09:48 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 09:48 | * gvy . o O ( 2xquad xeon as a firewall?! sure nice use ) | |
| 09:48 | <gvy> sbalneav, ! :)
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| 09:48 | <sbalneav> Morning vagrantc
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| 09:49 | <vagrantc> mornin
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| 09:49 | <gvy> cdealer, firefox tends to er... well if not leak then draw decent amount of memory
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| 09:49 | <sbalneav> On a train yet?
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| 09:49 | <gvy> if it's not possible to rip at least couple more gigs into ltsp system then you might have to resort to tricks like disabling firefox2 in-memory page caching
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| 09:50 | <cdealer> [gvy]:: the big problem is that they are already at the maximum of memory (4gb) ... =( I think about using a grid with these 3boxes
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| 09:50 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: no, a few hours yet
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| 09:50 | <gvy> both memory cache and pre-rendered pages (it's how they made backward/forward that fast)
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| 09:50 | cdealer, grid will help little i'm afraid
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| 09:50 | the problem is when you run a bunch of apps, one part of memory consumption is at least one copy of each + libs
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| 09:51 | <cliebow_> sbalneav, any thoughts on pcmcia support in the initramfs?
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| 09:51 | <gvy> the other is per-user non-COW data
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| 09:51 | with a few systems you're eating up the first part N times
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| 09:52 | cdealer, personally i'd try as possible to either get one system upped on ram, or exchanged for anything e.g. 2x2 core but 8 gigs
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| 09:52 | <ogra> vagrantc, where do you go ?
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| 09:52 | <vagrantc> ogra: portland
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| 09:52 | <sbalneav> cliebow_: Well, there IS support for pcmcia in the initramfs.
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| 09:52 | * gvy hails ogra, cliebow and vagrantc | |
| 09:52 | <ogra> vagrantc, oh, i thought you are already there
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| 09:53 | <cdealer> [gvy]:: you see... I have 3 good servers and Im stuck with the memory thing... will be very expensive to buy other server box only for the memory
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| 09:53 | * cliebow_ cliebow waves back 8~) | |
| 09:53 | * ogra waves | |
| 09:53 | <vagrantc> ogra: well, it's only about 2000 miles from here
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| 09:53 | <ogra> pfft
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| 09:53 | 2000 miles ...
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| 09:53 | <cdealer> [gvy]:: I will see what I can do.. thanks =)
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| 09:53 | <gvy> cdealer, well try with one, maybe i'm overly pessimistic
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| 09:53 | <ogra> sbalneav, do you have any clue where i could find a license for the sis oss driver ? the tgz on the wiki doesnt have any trace
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| 09:53 | <sbalneav> cliebow_: I guess the question is: what ISN'T working, that you wish was?
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| 09:54 | <gvy> cdealer, but altlinux is quite optimized for memory consumption: we have -Wl,--as-needed as default gcc (thus linker) options and the campaign against library bloat is like year long already
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| 09:54 | <sbalneav> Which, the kernel driver?
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| 09:54 | <ogra> i pathed it and have it running, it could go into gutsy ... but not unlicensed
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| 09:54 | <sbalneav> Morning ogra, btw
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| 09:54 | <ogra> sbalneav, yeah
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| 09:54 | <gvy> it really did help with lowering memory footprint
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| 09:54 | <ogra> afternoon :)
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| 09:54 | its getting cloudy in london
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| 09:55 | <sbalneav> I thought everything that was in the kernel was gpl2 licensed, or is this an external driver?
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| 09:55 | <ogra> but the view is awesome :)
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| 09:55 | sbalneav, no idea, its on the ltsp wiki
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| 09:55 | <sbalneav> heh
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| 09:55 | <ogra> it was never in the kernel officially though
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| 09:55 | <sbalneav> ok
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| 09:55 | * gvy . o O ( ogra w4r3z d00d ) | |
| 09:55 | <sbalneav> then I'm not sure.
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| 09:56 | <ogra> kylem just said he could write an alsa variant of that within a week
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| 09:56 | hmm
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| 09:56 | <cdealer> [gvy]:: so you think that maybe 4gb could handle(64mb per user) ?
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| 09:56 | <sbalneav> That'd be the way to go.
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| 09:56 | <cliebow_> sbalneav:just contemplating my pile of old laptops..wondering whether i could dump kernel on the hard drive and use pcmcia cards..
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| 09:57 | <ogra> i wonder if BenC would kill me if i steal kyle for a week :)
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| 09:57 | <gvy> cdealer, it's not "per user"
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| 09:57 | <sbalneav> cliebow_: I guess the thing to do would be to TRY it and see :)
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| 09:57 | ogra: I think you're bigger than benc, IIRC, so I bet you could take him in a fight. :)
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| 09:58 | <cliebow_> i thought i;d stick damnsmall on it and point to the ubuntu kernel
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| 09:58 | <gvy> it's like 300 or 400 megs "for all" (sum of one copy of apps/libs size) and the rest is "per user"
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| 09:58 | <ogra> sbalneav, well, he forgot his poker set ... i'd have good chances to "win" kyle for a week :)
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| 09:58 | <sbalneav> lol
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| 09:59 | <gvy> cdealer, even without that baseline, i'm afraid it resembles 1--2 firefox windows/tabs at a time -- if you go more or less actively swapping on the same drives as user data and software you're in deep trouble...
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| 09:59 | <cdealer> [gvy]:: so... to avoid problems I will search for a good mb that supports 16gb of ram and use it
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| 09:59 | <ogra> cliebow, well, you could put the whole squashfs image pus kernel on the client (from gutsy) its only 120M for the image plus the space for the kernel
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| 09:59 | s/pus/plus/
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| 09:59 | <gvy> cdealer, probably yes
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| 10:00 | <cdealer> [gvy]:: I have processor to spare and disk too... the only botleneck is the memory...
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| 10:00 | <vagrantc> ogra: i think you should be clear when reporting on debian bugs, and you're referring to features, to mention that the versions you're talking about are from ubuntu
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| 10:00 | <gvy> cdealer, ram and disk subsystem are more important for the majority of things to do with a server
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| 10:00 | <cdealer> Im going to lunch... later im back
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| 10:00 | <ogra> vagrantc, with the assumption that you sync eventually
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| 10:00 | <gvy> we do HPC so i know a bit of when it's not exactly so too :)
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| 10:00 | <ogra> debian is at 5.0.8 afaik
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| 10:00 | <vagrantc> 5.0.8debian2
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| 10:01 | <ogra> i'm about to release 5.0.21
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| 10:01 | i just added the x config stuff to my tree
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| 10:01 | <vagrantc> but there isn't really a direct correlation between ubuntu versions and debian versions, since there really isn't an upstream
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| 10:01 | <ogra> i'll put (ubuntu) to the versions in the future
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| 10:02 | <gvy> btw... ogra, should we submit altlinux scripts and a few occasional minor patches as well?
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| 10:02 | <vagrantc> frequently the debian version includes patches from newer ubuntu versions, and sometimes vice-versa
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| 10:02 | <ogra> gvy, if you make changes that should be upstream, please do :)
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| 10:02 | <gvy> seems i've underbothered a person working on it here :)
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| 10:02 | <ogra> vagrantc, yep, understood, i'll make that clearer
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| 10:03 | <vagrantc> ogra: like, for example, the 5.0.8debian2 version includes the unencrypted LDM support
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| 10:04 | <ogra> and the new ldm ?
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| 10:04 | <vagrantc> no
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| 10:04 | <cliebow_> ogra:i'm a gonna give it a whirl...
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| 10:04 | <vagrantc> haven't had any luck with the new ldm
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| 10:04 | <ogra> hmm
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| 10:04 | weird
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| 10:05 | it works just fine here
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| 10:05 | <vagrantc> i'm not really sure what to try ... it seems to log in and start a session, yet the login screen respawns simultaneously
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| 10:05 | with only the patches in the gutsy branch
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| 10:07 | <ogra> thats really stranfe
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| 10:07 | *strange
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| 10:07 | <cliebow_> ogra:will you clarify the role of squashfs for me...it ends up being the rootfilesystem?
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| 10:07 | <ogra> for me it starts the ssh tunnel and then starts a second ssh client that runs the session over the socket
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| 10:07 | cliebow, yep
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| 10:07 | well
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| 10:08 | squashfs+unionfs="/"
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| 10:08 | <cliebow_> k
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| 10:08 | <vagrantc> squashfs+tmpfs+unionfs, no?
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| 10:08 | <ogra> unionfs mounts a ramfs and merges that with the squashfs
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| 10:09 | <ogra> right, what vagrantc said
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| 10:09 | <cliebow_> thank you...
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| 10:12 | <vagrantc> or ... unionfs(squashfs+tmpfs)="/"
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| 10:14 | <EXP__> how i can write zdsk file to floppy, when i have usb floppy drive?
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| 10:14 | <vagrantc> ogra: when do you hit portland?
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| 10:15 | <ogra> my itinary says july 21 20:14
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| 10:16 | after hanging around for four hours on philadelphia before
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| 10:19 | * ogra starts to like this office .... | |
| 10:19 | <ogra> bzr push took less than 5 seconds :)
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| 10:20 | * ogra just added the new X config script | |
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| 11:01 | <ukasz> hi
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| 11:01 | <gvy> dzen dobry
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| 11:01 | <ukasz> i have a problem with indirect option
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| 11:01 | witam:)
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| 11:01 | gvy znasz sie cos ?
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| 11:02 | gvy: mam problem
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| 11:02 | <gvy> ukasz, well, i don't really speak polish :-)
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| 11:02 | <ukasz> moze mi pomozesz
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| 11:02 | aha
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| 11:02 | :P
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| 11:02 | lol
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| 11:02 | <gvy> mozhe, ale krashe english :-)
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| 11:02 | <ukasz> are you polish ?
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| 11:02 | * gvy lives in ukraine and travels carpathians at times | |
| 11:02 | <gvy> nope, russian
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| 11:02 | <ukasz> aha
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| 11:02 | ok so let me say what is the problem
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| 11:03 | when i write in SCREEN_07=startx -indirect 192.168.2.225 it shows me a chooser witch x servers but i can not log in to anyone
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| 11:04 | when i do alt+ctrl+backspace it is restarting x and shows me the chooser again
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| 11:05 | when i write SCREEN_07=startx and XDM_SERVER=192.168.2.225 i don't have chooser but i can log into the x server. but when i do alt+ctrl+backspace it sends me to console
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| 11:06 | gvy: any idea
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| 11:06 | ?
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| 11:06 | <gvy> hm
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| 11:06 | what ltsp flavour is it?
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| 11:06 | <ukasz> oh i have ltsp v5 and debian
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| 11:06 | <gvy> did you want X -query 192.168.2.225?
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| 11:07 | <ukasz> when i have indirect option i have gray screen with black X in the middle
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| 11:07 | <gvy> it's X started but w/o apps (including display/window manager)
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| 11:07 | <ukasz> my goal is to bot thin clients and let the choose the x server. and whenever thay will do alt+ctrl+backspace it will send them to the chooser
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| 11:08 | <vagrantc> ukasz: do you have a chooser configured ?
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| 11:08 | ukasz: -indirect requires that you configure the chooser
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| 11:09 | <ukasz> well let me paste my gdm.conf but i forgot the aste site
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| 11:09 | * vagrantc doesn't actually remember how to configure the chooser | |
| 11:09 | <gvy> ukasz, pastebin.ca
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| 11:10 | * gvy never used multiple dms even if there are two in lan right now | |
| 11:10 | <vagrantc> !pastebot
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| 11:10 | <ltspbot`> vagrantc: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
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| 11:11 | <ukasz> http://pastebin.ca/610674
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| 11:12 | it is gdm.conf on an x server not on ltsp server
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| 11:12 | <gvy> here in kdm.conf, there's a commented out sample line:
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| 11:12 | #ChooserHosts=*,ugly,sky,dino,kiste.local,login.crap.com
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| 11:12 | you have gdm on *clients*?
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| 11:13 | that is, terminals
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| 11:13 | <ukasz> gdm on ltsp and on x server
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| 11:13 | <gvy> s/kdm.conf/kdmrc/
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| 11:14 | <vagrantc> ukasz: what do you mean by x server ?
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| 11:15 | <ukasz> server with installed applications and xdcmp enablem
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| 11:15 | <gvy> X server is a process which is physically accessing videocard and input devices
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| 11:15 | thus on a terminal
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| 11:16 | <vagrantc> that's why i asked
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| 11:16 | <gvy> "LTSP server" is an "application server"
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| 11:16 | <ogra> well
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| 11:16 | not really ...
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| 11:16 | its a bootserver as well
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| 11:16 | <gvy> not neccessarily :)
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| 11:17 | <ogra> well, both or either ;)
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| 11:17 | <gvy> some PXE implementations i've stumbled on would ignore next-server and thus force me to put tftpd near (pre-existing) dhcpd ;(
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| 11:17 | <ukasz> but my goal is to boot thin clients from ltsp server and then "send" them to a diffrent server witch has installed gdm gnome desktop etc. and to enable my clients to choose between application servers
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| 11:18 | <gvy> ukasz, well... if they don't really need to choose each time you could bind them by mac addresses
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| 11:18 | * ogra wouldnt even know if -indirect is respected by the startx script ... nobody really cares for XDMCP in ltsp5 ... so it might be broken | |
| 11:19 | <ogra> even though i think since we just use the startx script from 4.x unmodified it probably should work
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| 11:19 | <gvy> e.g. form two subnets with different options passed
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| 11:19 | <ukasz> as i written before. if i do that it client will get a login prompt and will login,but will return to console whenever it pushes ctrl alt backspace.
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| 11:20 | <ogra> err
| |
| 11:20 | thats kind of expected ?
| |
| 11:20 | oh, wait, to console you say ? ... no, that isnt
| |
| 11:20 | <ukasz> yes that it what i mean
| |
| 11:21 | <ogra> probabyl the startx script is broken then
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| 11:21 | <ukasz> ofcourse that hapen if i supply XDM_SERVER option in lts.conf
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| 11:21 | <ogra> but as i said, we dont really focus on any of the insecure stuff
| |
| 11:21 | <ukasz> so what do you suppouse?
| |
| 11:22 | <cliebow_> ogra:ya think everything in /var/lib/tftpboot with a 2.6.22-7-386 should be moved to an old lappie to boot from?
| |
| 11:22 | <ogra> cliebow, hmm
| |
| 11:22 | likely ...
| |
| 11:22 | <cliebow_> cant hurt anyway..
| |
| 11:22 | <ogra> you will somehow need to tell the system to actually boot that :)
| |
| 11:22 | <cliebow_> like grub?
| |
| 11:22 | <ogra> i.e. make a manual grub setup
| |
| 11:23 | <cliebow_> i put damsmall on there..so i can tweak menu.lst..
| |
| 11:23 | <ukasz> hmm i have problems with this ltsp ever since.
| |
| 11:23 | but i really want it
| |
| 11:24 | please help
| |
| 11:24 | <vagrantc> the startx script doesn't respawn
| |
| 11:24 | so if you kill the X server, that's it.
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| 11:25 | <ukasz> ok i will coppy the startx sript from the official site
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| 11:25 | <vagrantc> once we get support for multiple login servers in LDM, i think we can say goodbye to XDMCP
| |
| 11:25 | <sbalneav> I think we were using inittab before to run the screen_session script, so when it dies, init would respawn.
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| 11:25 | <vagrantc> ukasz: it's the same script
| |
| 11:26 | like sbalneav said
| |
| 11:26 | <sbalneav> We're not spawning it from init anymore, so it's kind of a one shot deal.
| |
| 11:26 | I agree with vagrant, getting multi-host login going in ldm2's the way to go.
| |
| 11:26 | <vagrantc> i wrote some code in the sdm screen script to use "daemon" to respawn it. could do the same for startx
| |
| 11:27 | <cliebow_> ogra: where does the squashfs live?
| |
| 11:27 | <ogra> in /opt/ltsp/images
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| 11:27 | <cliebow_> aha
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| 11:27 | <ogra> /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img to be precise
| |
| 11:28 | <cliebow_> Wow!
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| 11:29 | <ogra> well, respawning from init i hard without init :)
| |
| 11:29 | *is
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| 11:29 | <ukasz> vagrantc: use sdm ?
| |
| 11:30 | <vagrantc> ukasz: no, but there's code in the sdm screen script to respawn that you could use to modify the "startx" script.
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| 11:30 | <cliebow_> heh!'][
| |
| 11:34 | <ukasz> ok i vagrantc: i do get a login prompt on ltsp server and when i choose "run xdcmp chooser" i get a list of servers and i can login and alt ctrl backspace doesn't return me to console
| |
| 11:34 | i am not a programmer (the good one) what should i modiffy ?
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| 11:38 | <sbalneav> ukasz: You'd want to look at the /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/ltsp/screen.d/startx file
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| 11:38 | tell me when you've got it open.
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| 11:39 | efra has quit IRC | |
| 11:40 | <ltsppbot> "ukasz" pasted "startx" (186 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/208
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| 11:41 | <ukasz> sbalneav: it is on http://pastebot.ltsp.org/208 what should i moddify ?
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| 11:41 | <sbalneav> Lets try this.
| |
| 11:41 | Go down to line 167, just above the line that says:
| |
| 11:41 | if [ -w /proc/progress ]; then
| |
| 11:42 | Insert a line that says:
| |
| 11:42 | while /bin/true; do
| |
| 11:42 | Then, at the very end of the file
| |
| 11:42 | after the "fi"
| |
| 11:42 | add a line that says:
| |
| 11:42 | done
| |
| 11:43 | I have no idea if it will work, but it's worth a try.
| |
| 11:43 | restart the workstation, and see if you get the desired behavior.
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| 11:43 | FernandoMM has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:45 | * ogra stares out the window ... seeing a big thunderstorm approach while sitting in 27th floor is slightly exciting | |
| 11:45 | <sbalneav> Where are you?
| |
| 11:47 | <ogra> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_and_structures_in_London
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| 11:47 | muh2000 has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:47 | <ogra> in number 17
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| 11:47 | <sbalneav> Whatcha doin' in London?
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| 11:47 | debconf?
| |
| 11:48 | <ogra> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millbank_Tower
| |
| 11:48 | sitting in the canonical office ...
| |
| 11:48 | (distro development sprint)
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| 11:48 | <cliebow_> it is not raining up is it?
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| 11:48 | <sbalneav> Ah, cool.
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| 11:48 | <ogra> its still below clouds ....
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| 11:48 | <ukasz> sbalneav: it din't work. i have XDM_SERVER=192.168.2.225 ( witch is a diffrent computer than ltsp) and it din't send me to it
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| 11:48 | <ogra> ugh
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| 11:48 | <ukasz> :(
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| 11:48 | <ogra> thunder
| |
| 11:49 | <cliebow_> Cool@!
| |
| 11:49 | that is actually a popular expletive in Maine..
| |
| 11:49 | <sbalneav> ukasz: My patch doesn't do anything for that, it was for hitting ctrl-alt-backspace, and re-starting.
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| 11:49 | Does it fix that?
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| 11:50 | efra has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:51 | <ukasz> sbalneav: it doesn't. i couldn't log into 192.168.225. just to a ltsp server
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| 11:52 | <ogra> does it restart if you hit ctrl-alt-backspace ?
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| 11:53 | <ukasz> yes it does
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| 11:53 | <sbalneav> ok
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| 11:53 | <ogra> so the fix works
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| 11:53 | <sbalneav> You bet.
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| 11:54 | <ogra> :)
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| 11:54 | <gvy> he sprints. :)
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| 11:54 | <ogra> we really need that selection mode for ldm ...
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| 11:54 | <sbalneav> As for logging into other servers, I'd have to know more about your network.
| |
| 11:54 | <ogra> but i doubt thats doable in time for gutsy
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| 11:54 | * gvy . o O ( and a userlist? ) | |
| 11:54 | <ogra> gvy, hrd to do
| |
| 11:54 | *hard
| |
| 11:54 | <sbalneav> Not on my todo list.
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| 11:54 | <gvy> ogra, yep, we discussed that in short
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| 11:55 | either separate daemon or pre-created pseudo user for ssh transport seems needed
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| 11:55 | <ogra> we'll surely have such a thing some day if we just easily can query an ldap server
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| 11:55 | gvy, neither will pass any security review :)
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| 11:55 | <gvy> er... tossing (open)ldap in might be problematic
| |
| 11:56 | <ogra> why ?
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| 11:56 | <sbalneav> Why do you need a userlist?
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| 11:56 | <ogra> we'll need that anyway at some point for local apps
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| 11:56 | <gvy> ogra, well pseudo might do but that brings in another problem, either it's created same-time-same-place or manually synced... which is not pretty
| |
| 11:57 | <ogra> gvy, that would bring various other probs
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| 11:57 | <sbalneav> Out for lunch. Back later
| |
| 11:57 | <gvy> sbalneav, 'cause users would have a hard time typing their usernames correctly in the larger deployments i've seen :o(
| |
| 11:57 | ogra, sure, that's why i didn't even try to demand that
| |
| 11:57 | (as if i'd demand anything for free anyways, heh :)
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| 11:58 | <sbalneav> Question: if they can't type in a username, how they gonna type in a password? :)
| |
| 11:58 | * ogra has seen a 2000 user windows NT4 deployment ... and has never seen problems with users not remembering their own names :) | |
| 11:58 | <sbalneav> out
| |
| 11:58 | <gvy> ogra, that is, thanks for sync, if we come up with any sane ideas, i'll sync back :)
| |
| 11:58 | <ogra> gvy, the way ldm works now, you would have a control tunnel owned by the pseudo user that breaks security completely
| |
| 11:59 | <gvy> (to sbalneav's back) well if it's "1" they could
| |
| 11:59 | <ogra> user lists are possible ... but i dont think its doable in a sane way without using ldap
| |
| 11:59 | <gvy> ogra, that might mean another connection; but requiring ldap for that sounds definitely more sane
| |
| 12:00 | <ukasz> ok guys any idea how to do that damm chooser ?
| |
| 12:00 | <ogra> gvy, if its "1" youre better off to define autologin per workstation :)
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| 12:00 | <gvy> ogra, users would sometimes roam though (i'm not even making this up!)
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| 12:00 | <vagrantc> i think some sort of autologin that uses the host or ip address by default would be sane.
| |
| 12:01 | <gvy> the problem was the difference: some departments would be more smart, and some... erm... less
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| 12:01 | well, that could save a day in some situation, again...
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| 12:01 | <vagrantc> the way sdm works, is if you specify a username, it uses that, and if you don't specify a username, it defaults to hostname
| |
| 12:01 | <gvy> btw is there any sort of "use case" pake on wiki that such stuff could be dumped onto?
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| 12:01 | i mean, what works, what doesn't, and in between
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| 12:02 | s/pake/page/
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| 12:02 | <vagrantc> and, if they don't specify a username, it can be configured to log into a different server
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| 12:02 | spectra has quit IRC | |
| 12:02 | <vagrantc> so you can have all your anonymous accounts on a different machine
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| 12:03 | wouldn't be too hard to get similar behavior in LDM
| |
| 12:04 | <ogra> vagrantc, if you have any idea how to avoid the screen flashing for my commit 386 that would be great
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| 12:04 | <ukasz> what do you do when u have to put severall applicatin servers ? one is not enough ? how does your lts.conf look like ?
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| 12:04 | <ogra> i played with chvt a bunch but that just avoids that the user sees white text on tty1
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| 12:05 | X flashing three times before starting up *feels* strange ...
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| 12:06 | <vagrantc> ogra: this is just the new x configuration stuff?
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| 12:06 | <ogra> vagrantc, yup
| |
| 12:06 | http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ltsp/gutsy-ltsp/revision/ogra%40ubuntu.com-20070709151737-1o1kndd0or2ktdg4?start_revid=ogra%40ubuntu.com-20070709151737-1o1kndd0or2ktdg4
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| 12:06 | http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ltsp/gutsy-ltsp/annotate/ogra%40ubuntu.com-20070709151737-1o1kndd0or2ktdg4?start_revid=ogra%40ubuntu.com-20070709151737-1o1kndd0or2ktdg4&file_id=configurex.sh-20070709151557-6ft3udkgno192vxg-1
| |
| 12:06 | these two
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| 12:06 | (second is the new file)
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| 12:07 | i've put a clear at the top and bottom for now
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| 12:07 | <vagrantc> ukasz: i haven't set it up with LTSP yet.
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| 12:07 | <ogra> but tats not the proper solution
| |
| 12:10 | <gvy> ukasz, i'd basically start reading up on xdmcp and chooser... if it's not a well walked path
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| 12:11 | and that might get you into sort of development
| |
| 12:11 | or at least fixing up something in a part of a project that's considered un(der)maintained and untested (xdmcp is that with ltsp5)
| |
| 12:12 | that might be not that scary as it sounds... especially when you do need the result
| |
| 12:12 | ukasz, but you might also want to formulate the initial problem, not the way you currently see a solution
| |
| 12:13 | <ogra> gvy, XDMCP should die
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| 12:13 | we're workig ard to get ldm feature comlete to completely replace it
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| 12:13 | <vagrantc> and until we can replicate all of the functionality of it, it won't die.
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| 12:13 | efra has quit IRC | |
| 12:14 | <ogra> putting time into XDMCP is a waste imho ... but we wont refuse sent in patches indeed :)
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| 12:14 | <vagrantc> agreed :)
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| 12:15 | efra has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:15 | <gvy> ogra, i don't disagree
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| 12:16 | but i oppose the "break it and maybe some day create a robust alternative" in devel@altlinux all too often...
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| 12:16 | even on a "default permissions" (especially changing them) side
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| 12:16 | you see, we employ control(8) originating from Owl, and perms on critical stuff like suid binaries are usually kept very restricted in the package
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| 12:17 | but brought to some reasonable state by control script
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| 12:17 | spectra has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:17 | <gvy> so that there's no race with loosening perms up between snapshotting e.g. /bin/su state before package upgrade and restoring it afterwards automatically
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| 12:18 | but sometimes things would get tightened up without control script :-/
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| 12:19 | oh well, that's rather for security-obsessed distros like owl or alt. :)
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| 12:20 | <ogra> gvy, we dont break it ... its just not cared for ... for 90% of the cases we have ldm is fine as is
| |
| 12:20 | * vagrantc finds ldm lacking | |
| 12:20 | <ogra> fo the other 10 you still have the XDMCP script there
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| 12:20 | <gvy> ogra, again, i don't disagree :-)
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| 12:21 | <ogra> vagrantc, ldm2 will change that a lot
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| 12:21 | cdealer has left #ltsp | |
| 12:21 | cdealer has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:22 | <ogra> vagrantc, i'm having some basic code for automatic printer detection at home :) ldm2 makes that trivial ...
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| 12:22 | also having shutdown/reboot options in the desktop to affect the client wont be any prob anymore
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| 12:23 | <gvy> that sounds interesting, 'cause currently on todo
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| 12:23 | <ogra> the communication has improved so much that we're probably even able to have hal only seeing the client HW in an ltsp session
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| 12:24 | thats why i pushed so hard for implementing everythng client side
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| 12:24 | (everything session related in mean indeed)
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| 12:26 | gvy, well, have a look at he new ldm code :)
| |
| 12:27 | it spawns an ssh tunnel independently of the session ... with a socket attached to it ...
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| 12:27 | now everything you exectute like ssh -S <socketname> <command> will be executed as the user you are logged in on the server
| |
| 12:28 | so the X session is actually started like that ...
| |
| 12:28 | the socket persists for the duration of the session ...
| |
| 12:29 | so adding a udev script that checks for the socket existance and then runs gnome-printer-manager through that tunell in the users session is trivial
| |
| 12:30 | (an udev script that reacts on plugging in printers indeed)
| |
| 12:30 | <gvy> ogra, again, is there ldm[2] page on wiki? i'd add this there
| |
| 12:30 | <ogra> indeed thas limited to usb printers atm ... but i guess you understand the principle ...
| |
| 12:30 | gvy, nope
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| 12:30 | <gvy> yup
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| 12:30 | <ogra> feel free to create one
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| 12:31 | meduxa has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:31 | <ogra> anyway, everybody seems to leave the office here ... i think i'll join so i dont have to walk alone to the hotel
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| 12:34 | <gvy> thanks, and good night :-)
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| 12:36 | irule has quit IRC | |
| 12:40 | <ukasz> your wiki site is nice but where i can find how to configure ldm ??
| |
| 12:43 | <gvy> ogra, http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LDM (autolinked from http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/IntegratingLtsp)
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| 12:45 | <sbalneav> ukasz: Perhaps you could tell us a bit how your network's laid out?
| |
| 12:45 | The startx script may work for you, depending on how you've got things set up.
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| 12:46 | <ukasz> i have one server and my workstation. and ofcourse a thin client. on server i have installed ltsp nfs and dhcp. on workstation i have debian with gnome
| |
| 12:48 | <sbalneav> On the server, do you have two nics? I.e. does the thin client hang off the server, or are these two servers you want to speak to and the client on one common network?
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| 12:49 | <ukasz> on the server (it is also a router) i have 2 nics. everything (client workstation and server) resides on one physical network
| |
| 12:50 | <sbalneav> ok, you say you've only got one server.
| |
| 12:50 | So how are you expecting the chooser to work, via -indirect?
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| 12:50 | ogra has quit IRC | |
| 12:51 | <ukasz> yes but the reason why i want the chooser is that i have a job to configure several application servers.
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| 12:51 | yes via indirect
| |
| 12:51 | <sbalneav> ok, but RIGHT NOW you only have one box listening via XDMCP, right?
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| 12:52 | <ukasz> yes
| |
| 12:52 | <sbalneav> Have you configured the xdmcp on that server with "allow-indirect"?
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| 12:53 | <ukasz> yes
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| 12:53 | <sbalneav> How?
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| 12:53 | <ukasz> in gdm.conf
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| 12:53 | irule has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:53 | <cdealer> [gvy]:: we come to a conclusion: 2xQuadXeon 1.60Ghz - 2x4MB L2 - 1066mhz / 2x200GB SCSI / 16GB DDR2 667mhz / 2xGigabyte NIC ... up to 70 Thinclients ... what do you think ?
| |
| 12:54 | <ltsppbot> "ukasz" pasted "gdm.conf" (3 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/209
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| 12:54 | <ukasz> sbalneav: line above shows my gdm.conf on my workstation
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| 12:55 | <sbalneav> Did you do this in the gdm.conf, or gdm.conf.custom?
| |
| 12:55 | This is on debian?
| |
| 12:55 | <ukasz> yes debian
| |
| 12:55 | in gdm.conf
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| 12:56 | <sbalneav> I believe you want to make those changes in gdm.conf-custom.
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| 12:57 | vagrantc: That's where gdm does custom setup now, correct?
| |
| 12:57 | <vagrantc> not sure the exact name, but something like that
| |
| 12:57 | <ukasz> i don't have that file. i have debian sid on workstation
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| 12:57 | <gvy> cdealer, there's no 200GB SCSI, 73/146
| |
| 12:57 | <vagrantc> if there's two nics ... is the workstation on a different network ?
| |
| 12:58 | i also don't think XDMCP works across NAT, but i could be wrong.
| |
| 12:58 | <cdealer> [gvy]:: they are 183gb
| |
| 12:58 | <gvy> cdealer, should do but quads are pretty expensive here -- i'd prefer 2x5150 or 5160, or two opterons 275+
| |
| 12:58 | <sbalneav> It won't, but my reading of his network was that what we're interested in is all on one side of the router.
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| 12:58 | <ukasz> one nic is connected to a dsl modem and second to my private network
| |
| 12:59 | <sbalneav> ukasz: lets do thisL
| |
| 12:59 | <vagrantc> ah, got it./
| |
| 12:59 | <cdealer> [gvy]:: We already have the SCSI disks and the Xeon processors we will take from those 3 proliants we have here =D
| |
| 12:59 | <sbalneav> netstat -an | grep :177
| |
| 12:59 | <gvy> cdealer, that means that i prefer 2x2.66/3.00 to 4x1.66 since that improves peak single-thread performance
| |
| 12:59 | cdealer, ah
| |
| 12:59 | well should be still all good
| |
| 12:59 | <sbalneav> ukasz: Please paste the output of that command
| |
| 13:00 | <cdealer> [gvy]:: we are thinking about buying the intel S5000VSA or intel S5000PSL MB who can support 16GB of ram
| |
| 13:01 | <gvy> cdealer, if at all possible, try an upgrade/trade-in
| |
| 13:01 | those mobos are pretty expensive =/ and with hp i'd not be surprised with custom sized ones
| |
| 13:01 | <ukasz> udp6 0 0 :::177 :::*
| |
| 13:01 | <cdealer> [gvy]:: well... this hp thing is something we are afraid...
| |
| 13:02 | <gvy> cdealer, that is, from manager's pov it's safer to try and give one box and some money for another box
| |
| 13:02 | <cdealer> [gvy]:: direct with HP ?
| |
| 13:03 | * gvy is facing similar trouble: www.linux.kiev.ua asks for upgrade, can do homegrown 19" with desktop guts and scsi or pay 1.5x as much and buy 19" prebuilt server... | |
| 13:03 | <sbalneav> ok, so it's listening. So, you do an XF_ARGS="-indirect w.x.y.z", and it won't connect?
| |
| 13:03 | <gvy> cdealer, with someone who sold you these three i guess
| |
| 13:03 | it's not that cheap hardware they shouldn't treat you at least with some respect and it's also not that old not to re-sell
| |
| 13:04 | <ukasz> no i do SCREEN_07=startx -indirect x.y.z.s
| |
| 13:04 | <sbalneav> That's wrong, I think
| |
| 13:04 | Do a "SCREEN_07=startx"
| |
| 13:04 | <ukasz> ok i am trying now
| |
| 13:04 | <cdealer> [gvy]:: the problem is that every new buy must be done through an audiction
| |
| 13:04 | <sbalneav> XF_ARGS=" -indirect x.y.z.s"
| |
| 13:05 | Ah, no
| |
| 13:05 | wait that should be fine, was misreading the script.
| |
| 13:05 | <gvy> cdealer, i don't know your details, and i don't tell that's feasible... situations do differ
| |
| 13:06 | <sep> how is ldm called ? what's running screen.d/ldm ?
| |
| 13:06 | <sbalneav> So, the startx doesn't connect, or just gives you a grey X on the screen?
| |
| 13:06 | <gvy> although here folks who are on budget and buy sparingly somehow don't yet buy quads(-on-a-chip). :)
| |
| 13:06 | <sbalneav> sep: SCREEN_07=ldm
| |
| 13:07 | <ukasz> please w8
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| 13:12 | <sep> and ltsp-client reads in this variable
| |
| 13:13 | <sbalneav> sep: well, the client uses that variable to determine what screen script to run on tty7
| |
| 13:16 | <sep> so when that variable is missing, where would i look ? what's responsible of setting it ?
| |
| 13:16 | <vagrantc> sep: from the ltsp-client init scripts
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| 13:17 | sep: /usr/lib/ltsp/ltsp_config
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| 13:17 | <sbalneav> sep: By default, if none is specified, it defaults to ldm
| |
| 13:17 | <vagrantc> sep: that's what sets the variables
| |
| 13:18 | <ukasz> sbalneav: now i have something messed up. i don't have the chooser
| |
| 13:19 | <sbalneav> what DO you have?
| |
| 13:20 | <sep> i'm working on http://bugs.skolelinux.no/1210, ldm starts fine on the stock install. but does not start after ltsp-make-client have run. and i have the default debian-edu lts.conf (that works prior to using make-ltsp-client)
| |
| 13:21 | sound=y localdev=y and networkswap
| |
| 13:23 | <sbalneav> So, if you blow away the /opt/ltsp chroot, and rebuild it with ltsp-build-client, ldm won't restart?
| |
| 13:23 | <ukasz> sbalneav: now i have normal login window. without the chooser
| |
| 13:23 | <sep> seams ltsp_config don't set SCREEN_07=ldm if there is a configured displaymanager
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| 13:23 | and ltsp-make-client installs kdm
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| 13:23 | <sbalneav> ukasz: ok, but you've only got ONE box doing xdmcp, right?
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| 13:23 | you won't get the chooser unless there's TWO or more boxes on the network offering XDMCP.
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| 13:24 | <ukasz> yes
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| 13:24 | <sbalneav> yes, what?
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| 13:24 | <ukasz> no that is not true
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| 13:24 | <sep> sbalneav, if i rebuilt the ltsp chroot as a thinclient only i expect it would work as expected.
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| 13:24 | <ukasz> i can run an xdcmp chooser from my own computer
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| 13:26 | <sep> just wondered when ltsp_config changed. since i am prettu sure it did set SCRREN_07 in the sarge version even with a dm installed
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| 13:26 | mopey has quit IRC | |
| 13:26 | <ukasz> i can run an xdcmp chooser from my thin client only when i get a standard login and then go to operations and run xdcmp chooser
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| 13:27 | <sbalneav> Well, what's your remote greeter set to in gdm?
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| 13:27 | You probably want to set it to gdmchooser instead of gdmgreeter or gdmlogin.
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| 13:27 | <sep> vagrantc, it we set SCREEN_07=ldm manually in lts.conf will it break anything else ?
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| 13:28 | <vagrantc> sep: shouldn't
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| 13:28 | <ukasz> i havestandart cgreeter
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| 13:28 | <vagrantc> sep: ah.
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| 13:28 | <sep> any chance that ltsp_config will revert to setting SCRREN_07=ldm even with a configured dm installed ?
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| 13:28 | <vagrantc> sep: i think i know what's happening.
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| 13:28 | <ukasz> you mean on myworkstation ?
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| 13:28 | <sep> we realy want to release terra soonish :)
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| 13:28 | <sbalneav> ukasz: RemoteGreeter=/usr/lib/gdm/gdmchooser
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| 13:28 | <vagrantc> sep: if you have a display manager installed, it defaults to that.
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| 13:29 | <sep> vagrantc, didn't use to.
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| 13:29 | <vagrantc> sep: this is with your thin-client + workstation all in the same chroot ?
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| 13:29 | <sep> yes
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| 13:29 | <vagrantc> sep: it's been that way for quite some time.
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| 13:29 | <sep> havent played with this since sarge released :)
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| 13:29 | <sbalneav> hmm
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| 13:29 | no, that doesn't seem right.
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| 13:30 | <sep> ltsp_cleint say if [ "$display_manager_configured" = "true" ]; then
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| 13:30 | # Do nothing, these daemons (xdm, gdm, kdm, wdm, etc.) should configure themselves.
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| 13:30 | <sbalneav> Dunno. Been so long since I've dealt with choosers.
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| 13:30 | <sep> and with kdm installed that's obviously true
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| 13:31 | <vagrantc> sep: if you modify /etc/X11/default-display-manager
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| 13:31 | sep: but then you'll have to configure kdm to ignore that
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| 13:31 | <ukasz> sbalneav: maybe i can do what i want with ldm ?
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| 13:32 | <sbalneav> ukasz: ldm currently doesn't support multiple hosts.
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| 13:32 | <sep> well just as long as it works.
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| 13:32 | <sbalneav> It will on the next version.
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| 13:33 | <ukasz> when it will be released (just curious)
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| 13:33 | ?
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| 13:33 | <vagrantc> sep: well, now you know where it's breaking ...
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| 13:33 | <ukasz> where should i put the RemoteGreeter=/usr/lib/gdm/gdmchooser ? in witch section in gdm.conf ?
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| 13:33 | <sep> vagrantc, thanks it's all clear now :)
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| 13:34 | <sbalneav> ukasz: I don't think that will work.
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| 13:35 | ukasz: we're targetting october.
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| 13:36 | <sep> vagrantc, thin client and workstation from the same chroot is not a goal for ltsp ?
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| 13:37 | <vagrantc> sep: hasn't been worked on much
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| 13:39 | <sep> would adding SCRREN=07=ldm make ldm start on the workstations too ?
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| 13:39 | <vagrantc> probabl
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| 13:39 | y
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| 13:43 | <sep> vagrantc, sorry for asking before thinking :)
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| 13:45 | <ukasz> ok maybe a diffrent question. what machine you think will be good for 20 thins ??
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| 13:46 | <sbalneav> ukasz: A dual core box of some kind with 2 gigs of ram should work fine.
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| 13:47 | 4 gigs of ram, if you want some wiggle room
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| 13:48 | ps -ef | grep LTSP_CLIENT | wc
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| 13:48 | 77 1751 15957
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| 13:49 | So, I've got 77 people logged in on this server.
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| 13:49 | 13:47:34 up 14 days, 20:27, 7 users, load average: 1.87, 1.75, 1.52
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| 13:49 | it's a quad xeon, with 5 gigs of ram.
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| 13:49 | <ukasz> the reason why i would like to chave that chooser is that not every office can affort those kind of servers. i could setup some weaker servers
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| 13:51 | <jvin248> Hi..... Since there is some discussion on servers.. Has anyone set up an LTSP server that is made up of a cluster of weaker computers (like an openmosix server with an LTSP layer to run clients from)? Any leads on where to look at how to install/setup such a configuration?
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| 13:51 | <sbalneav> jvin248: Lots of people talk about it, none/few have done it.
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| 13:52 | <jvin248> That's what I thought. I can see it being a big challenge.
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| 13:53 | <sbalneav> ukasz: Well, dunno what I can tell you. Either keep fiddling with the startx, or wait till we get ldm2 done.
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| 13:53 | <jvin248> A few months ago I was trying to get the server part running and struggled (without starting with any LTSP)
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| 13:54 | <sbalneav> Seeing as how openmosix is still alpha on 2.6 kernels, I don't really view it as a serious contender.
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| 13:56 | <ukasz> sbalneav: i can't wait for that :-) btw do i only need ssh server on ltsp server to make ldm working ?
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| 13:56 | <sbalneav> yep
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| 13:56 | <ukasz> mhm
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| 13:57 | can i make ldm to send ssh requests to a diffrent computer ?
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| 13:58 | ah maybe i will manage to convince my employee to buy a better server
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| 13:59 | * gvy is away: ~ | |
| 14:00 | bobby_C has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:11 | <ukasz> will ldm work in chrooted enviroment ??
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| 14:41 | <cliebow_> sbalneav: you still around? if i were to swap in the ubuntu ltsp kernel and initramfs what would a grub entry look like?
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| 14:41 | title ltsp
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| 14:42 | kernel /boot/vmlinuz'
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| 14:42 | root=??
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| 14:47 | root=/dev/ram?
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| 14:50 | <sbalneav> dunno
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| 14:51 | <cliebow_> what spurs losding of the iniramfs once the kernel is loaded?
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| 14:52 | J45p3r_ has quit IRC | |
| 14:53 | <cliebow_> i guess i see that with etherboot the ramdisk is tagged on..and in pxe it is defined in default file
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| 14:58 | <shale> howdy.... i'm trying to get a thin client to work in ubuntu, running feisty server, the client pxe boots OK, loads initrd.img OK, but then at the initial ubuntu boot screen it pauses then falls to a blinking cursor.
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| 14:58 | Any ideas why?
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| 14:58 | mopey_ is now known as mopey | |
| 14:59 | <cliebow_> shale:you get an initramfs prompt?
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| 15:01 | <shale> no, just the ubuntu splash screen then it drops to a blinking cursor.
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| 15:01 | if i do ALT-F1 it doesn't show any errors
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| 15:01 | the last line is "filename: ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
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| 15:01 | <cliebow_> maybe you should comment out splah quiet in default file of pxelinux.,cfg
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| 15:01 | might give you some info to go on
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| 15:02 | <shale> ok
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| 15:03 | same thing
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| 15:03 | do i need to /etc/init.d/something restart ?
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| 15:03 | <cliebow_> no..just reatart the client
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| 15:04 | <shale> ok
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| 15:04 | ya, same thing
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| 15:04 | do i need to apt-get install anything other than ltsp-server ?
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| 15:04 | <cliebow_> i cant tell where in the process it borks..
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| 15:04 | you have run ltsp-build-client
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| 15:05 | <shale> yes i did, and it created the /opt/ltsp/i386 dir
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| 15:05 | but since the OS is just feisty server, i'm wondering if i also need to have installed gnome or other stuff like that?
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| 15:06 | <cliebow_> feisty server...you Will need x
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| 15:07 | Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:07 | <cliebow_> you can sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop..or edubuntu-desktop or xubuntu-desktop..or kubuntu-desktop..whatever flavor you like
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| 15:08 | <shale> hmm ok
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| 15:08 | is installing all that required if i want to launch rdesktop?
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| 15:08 | i don't really want to install 1.5GB worth of stuff just to launch rdesktop
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| 15:09 | <cliebow_> umm..you better ask one of the schmarties..
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| 15:09 | <shale> hehehe
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| 15:10 | <cliebow_> Gadi is not here atm..he has done a lot with rdesktop..and Scottie seems preoccupied
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| 15:11 | * cliebow_ cliebow googles | |
| 15:11 | sep has quit IRC | |
| 15:12 | <shale> ok i'll hang out hoping one of the wizards shows up :)
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| 15:14 | <whiprush> an xserver and rdesktop should do the trick
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| 15:15 | <cliebow_> first thing in the morning is good..while ogra is not sleeping
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| 15:24 | <shale> what is the smallest xserver?
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| 15:26 | Guaraldo has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:27 | <shale> or do i have to use one of the *-desktop ones? (like ubuntu-desktop)
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| 15:28 | lynn_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:29 | <lynn_> any one know how to set my ltsp server to use a different ethernet card?
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| 15:31 | <shale> lynn_: you mean so one nic goes to the wan and the other has thin clients plugged into it?
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| 15:32 | <lynn_> yes
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| 15:32 | that's how it is, but eth1 changed to eth2. the LAN connects to eth0
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| 15:35 | <shale> try this https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ThinClientHowtoNAT
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| 15:35 | <lynn_> I switched out the thin-client server card and the new one shows up as eth2
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| 15:36 | xlyz has left #ltsp | |
| 15:37 | <lynn_> thanks shale
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| 15:44 | <john_s> can two samba servers use active dirctory for auth? IF so how?
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| 15:45 | <shale> john_s: yes
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| 15:45 | <john_s> Ok, so how please
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| 15:46 | ?
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| 15:47 | <joebake1> john_s: Google for terms "samba" and "winbind"
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| 15:47 | <john_s> sure
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| 15:47 | I am well past that
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| 15:47 | <shale> well, you use a combination of winbind, kerberos, and acl
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| 15:47 | <john_s> ok, so where are the rid's stored
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| 15:47 | ?
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| 15:48 | and how is the uid/gid map kept consistent between the two servers?
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| 15:48 | <shale> are you sure you're in the correct chan?
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| 15:48 | <john_s> perhaps not
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| 15:48 | I am sort of pursuing this on #samba as well
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| 15:48 | I am just hoping that someone has been here before
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| 15:49 | I can't tell if I am thick or I am not asking the right question
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| 15:49 | <shale> http://www.google.com/search?q=authenticating+samba+to+active+directory&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
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| 15:50 | <john_s> Ok shale, I appreciate that. But I am sort of hoping that someone has 2 LTSP servers that need to live on a windows domain as domain members and share a single source of authentication
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| 15:50 | and that they can sort of nudge me in the right direction
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| 15:51 | Everything I've found sort of stops at one linux server as a domain member
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| 15:52 | <shale> have you seen this page? http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WinIntegration
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| 15:53 | <john_s> yes, thanks
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| 15:53 | Thats pretty good. But I am trying to scale it to more than one server
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| 15:54 | <shale> seems to me it would be the same procedure for the 2nd server, so long as it joins the domain with a diff name.
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| 15:54 | <john_s> One way to do that is to use smbldap and set up another domain and then I *think* I could set up an inter-domain trust
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| 15:54 | ahh, yes but the problem is that each ltsp server would then have its own uid/rid map so that users could share files accross the two serers
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| 15:55 | and one of the things I want to have happen is have an nfs file store on a different machine.
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| 15:55 | so \home is somewhere else than the LTSP server is
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| 15:56 | am I being clear or am I babbling?
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| 15:56 | <shale> i guess i don't understand the prob... two domain members, linux servers, should be able to share the file shares from other servers, incl /home dirs.
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| 16:00 | <john_s> ok. Well as I understand it (an there may be other ways to do this) if you use winbind and samba the default way that authentication is handled is that winbind maps windows RID to unix UID's and stores them locally in a database in /usr/lib/samba (i/var/lib/samba/winbindd_idmap.tdb) that works great for a single server. Now suppose another server is set up and it joins AD as well. It also has a local instance of the winbind_idmap.tdb, but it
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| 16:00 | am I missing something easy here?
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| 16:00 | basically if you
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| 16:00 | sorry,, basically if your users don't have the same map they can't mount files from other servers as that same user
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| 16:01 | <shale> hmm, i'm out of my depth on this one, sorry
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| 16:01 | <john_s> The reason I think this is sort of an LTSP question is because it is about how to scale LTSP
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| 16:02 | <shale> have you seen the pdf at the bottom of this page: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Documentation
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| 16:02 | <john_s> shale: thats fine. I am out of my depth too :-)
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| 16:03 | thanks. I have read that.
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| 16:04 | <shale> how bout this one: http://math.univ-lille1.fr/~hafidi/terminal-services/
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| 16:04 | <john_s> Ok, well as I say I know that some folks are using smbldap which is pretty cool, but as I fooled with it, it appeared to me that I was going to not only have to create a parallel domain with parrallel user records but that I would need to investigate inter-domain trusts as well
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| 16:07 | Yes, I like this fellow stuff, he is really great, but I think he missed the boat here. His solution is to run a cron job every five minutes to reset uids as I read it. Thats downright scary! "For some reason the ID mappings may change. Thus, the files owner and group on the home directories will not correspond the id and gid of the user. A solution consists of running a cron, say every 5 minutes, to check that each homedir is really owned
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| 16:07 | "
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| 16:08 | I really appreciate your help. I am definatly puzzled. Anyone else care to chime in on this?
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| 16:11 | <shale> for the number of folks in this chan, it's pretty quiet
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| 16:11 | i've been trying to figure out how to boot a thin client straight to rdesktop for a while now but no one ever answers :)
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| 16:13 | <john_s> yeah
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| 16:13 | ok so maybe I can help with that. I assume that you edited your /lts.conf file right?
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| 16:14 | <shale> yes i added... SCREEN_02 = rdesktop ip.of.server
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| 16:14 | efra has quit IRC | |
| 16:15 | <shale> but i can't even get it to give me a linux login window
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| 16:16 | <shale> i started with a plain jane feisty-server install, then added xfce4 but it still didn't work, so now am installing ubuntu-desktop
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| 16:16 | <shale> previously, i'd just done apt-get install ltsp-server rdesktop
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| 16:16 | the pxe client booted the initrd.img fine, showed the ubuntu splash page, then dropped to a blinking cursor.
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| 16:17 | <john_s> hm, I've had similar issues. Did you try setting rdesktop to by screen_01 just for giggles?
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| 16:17 | <shale> no i didn't but will try that
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| 16:18 | <john_s> This is something that I never got working right and finally gave up on myself. I could get it to go to X, or tty but never automagically to a remote redesktop
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| 16:19 | <shale> changing it to SCREEN_01 gives same effect.
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| 16:19 | <sbalneav> john_s: did you install rdesktop in the chroot?
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| 16:19 | it's not there by default, iirc
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| 16:19 | <shale> sbalneav: no, i just did apt-get install rdesktop and then ran ltsp-build-client... how do i install it in the chroot?
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| 16:20 | <sbalneav> chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
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| 16:20 | then apt-get install rdesktop
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| 16:20 | I don't use rdesktop myself, so I've never tested that part.
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| 16:20 | But I suspect that's your problem.
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| 16:20 | <shale> hmm i'll try it
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| 16:21 | altho when i removed the rdesktop line from lts.conf and tried even then i never even got an xfce login screen
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| 16:21 | <sbalneav> Anywho, heading home for the day.
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| 16:21 | <shale> do i need to apt-get install xfce4 as chroot?
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| 16:21 | <sbalneav> no
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| 16:21 | <shale> thx sbalneav
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| 16:21 | <sbalneav> because it runs on the server.
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| 16:21 | bye
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| 16:29 | <john_s> So is there anyone on channel right now with _more_ than one ltsp server AND a Win2k3 domain controller?
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| 17:01 | <lynn_> is there a way to smooth out choppy video on ltsp thin-clients?
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| 17:05 | i'm using switch, not a hub, and testing with 2 gigabit ethernet cards. however, the video is still choppy!
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| 17:09 | <mopey> You could bypass the encryption of X, by using what they talked about here http://marc.info/?l=ltsp-discuss&m=118343389721369&w=2
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| 17:11 | and your switch needs to be a gigabit switch, right? Not just the cards.
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| 17:11 | Or else it will run at 100mb
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| 17:12 | (if your switch is only 100mb)
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| 17:13 | <lynn_> the switch is 1000, i'll try that link. thanks mopey
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| 17:15 | <shale> anyone know how to get ltsp to auto-launch rdesktop to a specific address?
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| 17:16 | <mopey> you could put it in rc.local
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| 17:17 | /opt/ltsp/.../rc.local
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| 17:21 | <john_s> shale: the chroot idea didn't work, huh?
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| 17:21 | <shale> john_s: nope
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| 17:22 | <john_s> but other things work like telling it to got to a tty automagically right?
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| 17:22 | <shale> i wonder if my problem could be related to my running the ltsp server out of a VM
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| 17:22 | john_s: no, actually, i can't even get a login screen
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| 17:22 | <john_s> um, wait have you ever gotten a login?
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| 17:23 | <shale> john_s: No :)
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| 17:23 | <john_s> like on tty1 does it come up with the gnome splash or whatever
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| 17:23 | ohhhh
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| 17:23 | <shale> ubuntu splash appears then it goes to a blinking cursor and nothing after that
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| 17:23 | <john_s> I think you should start there first. So you are saying. It pxe boots, you see all that great nearly meaningless boot info and then you get a splash and then it keels over?
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| 17:24 | <shale> correct
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| 17:24 | <john_s> ok and your server is hosted on vmware but your client is a real world computer?
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| 17:24 | <shale> i figured it was because there was no X installed, so i apt-get installed xfce4 but same effect.
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| 17:24 | correct, server = vm, client = classic p3
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| 17:26 | <john_s> ok, well try going pre-graphical by setting this option in lts.conf SCREEN_01 = shell
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| 17:26 | SCREEN_01 = shell
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| 17:26 | sorry the space doesn't need to be that big, gaim is being mean
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| 17:26 | then you'll need to reboot your client
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| 17:27 | <shale> ok rebooting...
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| 17:27 | <john_s> one advantage to this is not only will you know if you are really connecting but any meaning debug message re: your vga card or whatever will be here
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| 17:27 | <mopey> wait. you need to set SCREEN_02 not SCREEN_01 I think for ltsp5
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| 17:27 | <shale> after it loads initrd.img it says Ready. then it shows the ubuntu splash, and now it just dropped to a blinking cursor.
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| 17:28 | yes ltsp5 (ubuntu feisty)
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| 17:28 | <mopey> Try SCREEN_02=shell
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| 17:28 | <john_s> ok, something isn't quite right, since you probably shouldn't get an ubuntu splash at all
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| 17:28 | <shale> trying SCREEN_02 now
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| 17:29 | still getting the splash
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| 17:29 | <john_s> I am not sure you are actually pxe booting
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| 17:29 | <mopey> SCREEN_01 is reserved for something. That was a hangup for me when I was trying to debug.
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| 17:29 | <john_s> ok
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| 17:29 | are you seeing all of the typical linux dmeg type stuff when you pxe boot the piii
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| 17:30 | <shale> got splash again
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| 17:30 | <john_s> shale: are you seeing typical linux boot mesg stuff from the piii
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| 17:30 | ?
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| 17:31 | your reboots are awfully speedy it seems to me
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| 17:31 | <shale> when it pxe boots, i get the PXE stuff, Loading vmlinux..., Loading initrd.img.... Ready. then Loading, please wait... a bunch of IP-config info incl rootserver, rootpath, filename, then the blinking cursor.
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| 17:31 | <john_s> ok and if you hit alt F2 what do you see?
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| 17:31 | <shale> so john_s, no i don't think i'm seeing the linux dmesg stuff
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| 17:31 | <mopey> Check your dhcpd.conf stuff
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| 17:32 | <shale> when i hit alt F2 I see just the blinking cursor, altF1 shows me all that stuff i listed above.
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| 17:32 | <mopey> Like yout root-path
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| 17:32 | <john_s> I agree with mopey
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| 17:32 | I think you aren't actually booting the kernel
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| 17:32 | you may have to adjust a bit
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| 17:33 | <shale> rootpath = /opt/ltsp/i386 bootfile name = ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0 boot server host = 10.21.2.229
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| 17:34 | <john_s> ok and when you go to ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0 is there an image there with that name?
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| 17:35 | <shale> when i got to /opt/ltsp/i386 i see all the linux dirs (bin, boot, dev, etc).
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| 17:36 | <john_s> like when I do # locate pxelinux.0 i see # /tftpboot/lts/2.6.17.8-ltsp-1/pxelinux.0
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| 17:36 | ok but look for the boot image, probably in /tftpboot/lts/ or something
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| 17:36 | <shale> root@ltsp:/opt/ltsp/i386# locate pxelinux.0
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| 17:37 | <john_s> wait sorry just do locate pxelinux.0 from your command prompt
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| 17:37 | <shale> i have three pxelinux.0
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| 17:37 | <john_s> ok they are probably associated with various kernels right?
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| 17:37 | <shale> /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0 /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/syslinux/pxelinux.0 and /opt/ltsp/i386/boot/pxelinux.0
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| 17:38 | <john_s> i think you need to point it at the one in tftpboot my systems a bit different than yours but thats a hunch so you need to adjust your path in dhcp accordingly
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| 17:39 | dunno, perhaps I am offbase here since I am using LTSP 4.2 what do you think mopey?
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| 17:40 | <mopey> I've never used ltsp4.2, so I have no idea.
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| 17:40 | <shale> i'm using ltsp5
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| 17:41 | <mopey> ahhh, I misunderstood
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| 17:41 | I think you have it right shale
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| 17:41 | That's where the pxelinux.0 is on mine.
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| 17:42 | What about your server host, is that ip right? Maybe your vm is doing something there?
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| 17:42 | <shale> its the correct ip, the PXE boot makes it through loading vmlinuz and initrd.img
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| 17:44 | should the dhcp option 067 bootfile name (ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0) refer to /var/lib/tftpboot/... or /opt/... ?
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| 18:10 | <antiyanki> HOla...
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| 18:10 | primera ves por el canal IRC
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| 18:10 | ignoro incluso si Uds. me ven
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| 18:10 | ando medio perdido con cuestiones relativas al lts.conf.... me echarian una manito?
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| 18:19 | <antiyanki> Perdón por la impaciencia.....
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| 18:19 | pero que pasa que esto se mueve tan poco
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| 18:19 | ??
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| 18:19 | Uds. son usuarios ltsp con Ubuntu????
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| 19:07 | <shale> anyone use ltsp with xfce4?
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| 19:10 | <shale> anyone use ltsp with xfce4?
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| 19:32 | <cliebow> ive used xubuntu-desktop with ltsp ok..
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| 20:16 | <antiyanki> Hola
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| 21:26 | <griberal> Can LTSP be run over an broadband Internet connection?
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| 21:27 | <MrMoo> You probably want to look at the FreeNX connectivity
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| 21:28 | <griberal> What is the difference between the two?
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| 21:29 | <MrMoo> FreeNX has optimised network handling
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| 21:29 | you cannot boot a client over a broadband connection though
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| 21:30 | <griberal> So, why wouldn't one use FreeNX for local thin clients also?
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| 21:30 | <MrMoo> but you can probably copy the necessary files to a hard disk, etc.
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| 21:31 | FreeNX is a new custom protocol, its not basic X11
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| 21:31 | some people are concerned over its security policy
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| 21:31 | and its a few extra packages and configuration
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| 21:32 | its a spin off from NoMachine NX
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| 21:32 | a commercial solution
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| 21:33 | a competitor to 2X I believe
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| 21:33 | The cute feature of NX is that you can disconnect sessions like the console program screen
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| 21:35 | <griberal> So LTSP doesn't work well over an Internet connection?
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| 21:35 | <MrMoo> LTSP 4.2 uses regular X11 so it needs a lot of bandwidth and is insecure, ~300KB/s
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| 21:35 | LTSP 5.0 tunnels through SSH so it would be a lot better
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| 21:36 | http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/FreeNX
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| 21:37 | it would not work out of the box
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| 21:37 | but it is feasible
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| 21:37 | you would need some serious testing to see if its sensible
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