IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 8 February 2018 (all times are UTC)
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| 09:16 | <galileo_> hello
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| 09:17 | is there sombebody who can help me about fat-client
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| 09:17 | ?
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| 09:30 | <alkisg> Hello galileo_
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| 09:30 | Sure, ask your question
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| 09:31 | <galileo_> alkisg : I want to create the smaller fat client possible
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| 09:31 | <alkisg> Why, what's your end goal?
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| 09:32 | If you think that "small" means "light", that's NOT the case
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| 09:32 | <galileo_> I used ltsp-build-client --arch i386 --fact-client --fat-client-desktop xubuntu-client
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| 09:32 | <alkisg> Normally, this is the best way to create a light chroot:
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| 09:32 | !ltsp-manager
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| 09:32 | <ltsp> ltsp-manager: LTSP Manager is a GUI tool that makes LTSP maintenance easy. It's the recommended way to install LTSP in common setups. More info: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Ltsp-manager
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| 09:32 | <galileo_> It works well but now I want to uninstall specific apps in ltsp image
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| 09:32 | <alkisg> But why?
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| 09:33 | <galileo_> I'm lost in differents documentations I readed
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| 09:33 | <alkisg> galileo_: why do you want a smaller image?
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| 09:33 | Do you think that it will be lighter?
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| 09:33 | <galileo_> because I use fat-client and I don't need all apps
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| 09:33 | <alkisg> And?
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| 09:33 | Where's the problem in having applications that you don't need?
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| 09:33 | <galileo_> and I whant to unsinstall them
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| 09:34 | <alkisg> Why?
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| 09:34 | <galileo_> I use fat-client
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| 09:34 | <alkisg> I have a 10 GB image that boots fine in 64 MB RAM
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| 09:34 | Why would I uninstall applications?
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| 09:34 | <galileo_> ok
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| 09:34 | <alkisg> If you don't want to see them in the menus, you can easily hide them
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| 09:35 | By one command in lts.conf
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| 09:35 | <galileo_> alkisg : can you tell me the way to uninstall apps?
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| 09:35 | <alkisg> Sure
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| 09:35 | sudo ltsp-chroot
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| 09:35 | and then
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| 09:35 | apt-get purge package
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| 09:35 | This uninstalls applications
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| 09:35 | <galileo_> ok
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| 09:35 | do I have to ltsp-update-image after apt-get purge package ?
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| 09:36 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 09:36 | it's the wrong way to do things, but whatever you ask :/
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| 09:37 | <galileo_> please tell me the rigth way
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| 09:37 | <alkisg> i can't, because you don't answer my question
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| 09:37 | "why do you want to uninstall apps"
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| 09:39 | <bcg_> for example: in commercial usage you don't want to include irc client to ltsp clients.
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| 09:39 | <alkisg> bcg_: uninstalling a dependency of xubuntu-desktop, breaks things
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| 09:39 | Hiding an app is one lts.conf command
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| 09:40 | And a client can easily run whatever he likes from home
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| 09:40 | <bcg_> that was just an example for "why?"
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| 09:40 | client can, yes, but it should not be too easy.
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| 09:40 | <galileo_> perhaps I'm confuse about the way ltsp server running
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| 09:41 | <bcg_> I've seen user running ssh-daemon at port 443 at his home computer to get access to irc client.
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| 09:41 | <galileo_> so I want my client run in fat mode
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| 09:41 | I want the image to be smaller as possible to be loaded from network
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| 09:41 | <bcg_> ...as normal outgoing irc port was blocked in firewall.
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| 09:42 | <galileo_> what is the tigth way to do that?
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| 09:43 | <alkisg> galileo_: right, that's your problem
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| 09:43 | The image is not "downloaded" from the network
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| 09:43 | Only the "sectors" that are needed are fetched each time
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| 09:43 | So you can have a 10 GB image, and the client to only use 50 MB
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| 09:45 | I.e. you really shouldn't care at all how big your image is
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| 09:46 | It makes no difference in speed, ram, cpu, nothing
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| 09:46 | <galileo_> ok
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| 09:46 | so how can I select apps I want to be avalaible for clients?
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| 09:47 | <alkisg> INIT_COMMAND_01="rm /usr/share/applications/myapp.desktop"
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| 09:47 | <galileo_> In fact I try to help a school, there is 1 server 4Go RAM
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| 09:47 | an ten clients 2Go RAM
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| 09:47 | when users try to launch firefox or libreoffice, the server is out of memory
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| 09:48 | <bcg_> Is this "uninstalling a dependency of xubuntu-desktop, breaks things" true? In rpm/yum/dnf world you have soft dependecies, that can be uninstalled without breaking things.
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| 09:48 | <galileo_> and clients freeze
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| 09:48 | what is the rigth way to corret this problem?
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| 09:51 | <alkisg> you're probably NOT using fat clienst then
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| 09:51 | because of some error
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| 09:51 | <galileo_> I think in this time school using thin-client
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| 09:52 | I did some tests in another platform to build fat client
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| 09:52 | <alkisg> galileo_: if you want, I can have a remote look and see what you have there
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| 09:54 | <galileo_> it is not possible at this moment
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| 09:54 | <alkisg> ok
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| 09:54 | <galileo_> perhaps I should ty local_apps command in lts.conf?
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| 09:54 | <alkisg> galileo_: in general, I have hundreds of schools with those specifications, and they run fine
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| 09:54 | No
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| 09:55 | <galileo_> 4Go seems to be very small for 10 clients running firefox?
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| 09:55 | <alkisg> galileo_: the ltsp fat clients run firefox with their own ram
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| 09:56 | So, 4 GB on the server, and 2 GB on the clients, means that the server can support 50 clients with no problem
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| 09:56 | <galileo_> can you give me an example of ram conf in servers and clients?
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| 09:56 | <alkisg> Yes, 4 GB on the server and 2 GB on the clients is a good example
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| 09:56 | <galileo_> in fact as I said server is out of memory and in thin mode 0% of client memory is used
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| 09:57 | <alkisg> That's because you did something wrong
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| 09:57 | <galileo_> apps running on server not on client
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| 09:57 | <alkisg> I don't know what you did wrong. You need to be there and run commands and tell us the output etc.
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| 09:57 | This is the tutorial I've written, it's a very good how-to:
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| 09:57 | !ltsp-manager
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| 09:57 | <ltsp> ltsp-manager: LTSP Manager is a GUI tool that makes LTSP maintenance easy. It's the recommended way to install LTSP in common setups. More info: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Ltsp-manager
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| 09:57 | <alkisg> Follow this next time
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| 09:57 | <galileo_> alkisg : I didn't nothing, someone intall the system in this school and didn't product any documentation
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| 09:58 | <alkisg> OK, reinstall then
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| 09:58 | <galileo_> so I try to debug this situation
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| 09:59 | alkisg : what do you want me to reinstall? ubuntu or ltsp?
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| 09:59 | <alkisg> If you want my advice, reinstall the server using my documentation
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| 09:59 | (I'm an ltsp developer btw)
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| 09:59 | But if you want to "troubleshoot" the existing installation, sure, you can do that as well
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| 10:00 | It won't be the best way to do it though
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| 10:00 | How many ltsp clients does the school have?
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| 10:00 | <galileo_> 10
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| 10:00 | <alkisg> It's the same as schools here, ltsp-manager was build just for that setup
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| 10:00 | And I propose ubuntu mate 16.04, not xubuntu
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| 10:01 | As no ltsp developer uses xubuntu, so it's not very tested
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| 10:01 | <galileo_> why do you popose mate ?
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| 10:01 | ok
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| 10:01 | <alkisg> 3 ltsp developers use mate :)
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| 10:01 | Thin clients can't use gnome or unity
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| 10:01 | And between xfce, mate, lxde... mate is the most mature
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| 10:02 | Fat clients can use gnome and unity, but we wanted to use the same environment everywhere
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| 10:02 | So just follow the wiki page instructions, and you should be up and running in 1 hour, including the os installation
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| 10:04 | <galileo_> in wich case do you preconise fat-client? I think it is when clients have a lot of RAM 1, 2 or 4 Go
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| 10:04 | Gb
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| 10:04 | <alkisg> Clients with more than 512 MB RAM, get to be fat clients
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| 10:04 | With less, they become thins
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| 10:05 | <galileo_> ok
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| 10:05 | So I'm going to ask the scool if they accept a full reinstallation
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| 10:06 | <alkisg> You can also test it at home if you like
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| 10:07 | <galileo_> yes I think they would want to use edubuntu apps
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| 10:07 | <alkisg> We stopped edubuntu at 14.04
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| 10:07 | <galileo_> but as you say I should not install edubuntu-desktop?
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| 10:07 | <alkisg> The educational apps are of course available in ubuntu
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| 10:08 | There's just no "edubuntu-desktop" anymore
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| 10:08 | <galileo_> if I rigth understand
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| 10:08 | i install ubuntu mate 16.04
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| 10:08 | then ltsp-server-standalone
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| 10:08 | <alkisg> No.
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| 10:08 | You're going wrong again
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| 10:09 | <galileo_> then ltsp-build-client --arch i386
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| 10:09 | <alkisg> No.
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| 10:09 | I can't help you if you don't listen
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| 10:09 | !ltsp-manager
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| 10:09 | <ltsp> ltsp-manager: LTSP Manager is a GUI tool that makes LTSP maintenance easy. It's the recommended way to install LTSP in common setups. More info: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Ltsp-manager
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| 10:09 | <alkisg> Click there please
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| 10:09 | And read
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| 10:09 | <galileo_> sorry I forgot this one
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| 10:09 | <alkisg> This is the ONLY link you need
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| 10:09 | <galileo_> I readed it and have difficulties to install it
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| 10:10 | <alkisg> You read, follow the pages, and you are done in one hour
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| 10:10 | What was the difficulty?
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| 10:10 | <galileo_> not able to install it
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| 10:10 | <alkisg> What was the error message?
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| 10:10 | Because I've done that in hundreds of schools
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| 10:10 | And I've seen no error message
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| 10:12 | <galileo_> give me few minutes, I'm trying rigth now to install it and then I will come back to you
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| 10:12 | <alkisg> OK. Please read and follow the instructions in order. Don't just try one thing without doing all the previous ones.
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| 10:12 | I also have a link to the .iso there, use it
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| 10:18 | <galileo_> Cannot add PPA: 'ppa:~ts.sch.gr/ubuntu/ppa'. ERROR: '~ts.sch.gr' user or team does not exist.
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| 10:19 | <alkisg> Did you copy/paste the command? Is this Ubuntu MATE 16.04?
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| 10:21 | Here is the page:
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| 10:21 | http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Ltsp-manager/Installation
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| 10:21 | Here is the command: add-apt-repository ppa:ts.sch.gr; apt update
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| 10:21 | <galileo_> I copy paste but it is not ubuntu mate, sorry, one more mistake
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| 10:21 | <alkisg> Yet, you didn't ran that command...
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| 10:22 | <galileo_> so I'm going to test with your iso
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| 10:22 | thank's again for your help
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| 10:22 | <alkisg> You're welcome. Which distro were you trying on?
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| 10:22 | Because the add-apt-repository command should work in all ubuntu flavors, even linux mint...
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| 10:22 | Just not on debian
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| 10:23 | <galileo_> i tried xubuntu-desktop
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| 10:24 | <alkisg> The command works in xubuntu as well
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| 10:24 | <galileo_> in fact ubuntu-server and then I installed xubuntu-desktop
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| 10:24 | <alkisg> You just didn't copy/paste the command from the wiki
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| 10:24 | Somehow you used your own, wrong command
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| 10:25 | See the command again: add-apt-repository ppa:ts.sch.gr
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| 10:25 | Compare with the one you ran. You didn't ran the wiki command.
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| 10:29 | <galileo_> about command add-apt-repository ppa:ts.sch.gr
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| 10:29 | i use the good one but I forget to set correct proxy
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| 10:29 | because I'm behind a proxy rigth now
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| 10:32 | <alkisg> ok
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| 10:38 | <galileo_> ok I currently trying ltsp-manager
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| 10:39 | <alkisg> galileo_: are you trying on top of an existing ltsp installation, which already has ltsp-server-standalone? If yes, this will break things
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| 10:42 | <galileo_> not a problem it is a test platform (proxmox)
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| 10:42 | <alkisg> If it has ltsp-server-standalone, you need to mention it because it won't work
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| 10:43 | You need to remove it and all the other ltsp related stuff before continuing
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| 10:43 | E.g. isc-dhcp-server and a lot of others
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| 12:56 | <galileo_> I'm back
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| 12:57 | about the school I try to help
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| 12:57 | the teacher told me that the problems comes after upgrade from 14.04 to 16.04
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| 12:58 | do you recommand a way to upgrade ubuntu to preserve ltsp working
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| 12:58 | ?
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| 13:17 | <alkisg> galileo_: upgrades usually work fine
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| 13:18 | If something breaks, to troubleshoot it, we need specific error messages
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| 13:18 | Tell the teacher to come here so that I can help him directly without chatting so much
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| 13:26 | <galileo_> alkisg : teacher is not a linux user
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| 13:27 | <alkisg> It doesn't matter, my teachers aren't either :)
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| 13:27 | <galileo_> it is hard for him to use ltsp admin size
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| 13:27 | by the way is ask me to help him
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| 13:28 | <alkisg> OK, but now we spent a few hours for something that can be fixed in a couple of minutes :)
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| 13:31 | <galileo_> I don't think so
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| 13:33 | you told me to use ltsp-manager, seems to be great but I would want to learn to use ltsp without gui
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| 13:34 | I wil install ltsp-manager for teacher of course but I want to know how it works without GUI
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| 13:35 | <alkisg> Why?
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| 13:36 | <galileo_> why not?
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| 13:36 | I prefer tu use bash in most of time
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| 13:36 | I don't think it is a lost of time
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| 13:37 | <alkisg> Isn't this a school?
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| 13:37 | Isn't the teacher there?
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| 13:37 | Isn't it better for him to maintain it?
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| 13:39 | <galileo_> I'm here to ask question for teacher and for me
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| 13:39 | perhaps teacher need gui
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| 13:39 | so I will install it for him
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| 13:39 | bu I don't want to use gui
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| 13:40 | <alkisg> OK
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| 13:40 | Both are possible
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| 13:40 | LTSP manager supports both
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| 13:40 | Both for you and the teacher
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| 13:40 | But anyway I meant that I could solve the teacher problem in a couple of minutes
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| 13:40 | Even without ltsp manager
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| 13:40 | Without chatting for hours... :)
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| 13:40 | <galileo_> do you mean ltsp-build-client is abandoned?
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| 13:44 | <alkisg> We don't maintain ltsp-build-client a lot, but it's still supported
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| 13:44 | But this is not related to the GUI/non GUI talk
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| 13:44 | LTSP manager uses ltsp-update-image -c /, i.e. console again, in the background
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| 13:49 | The difference is if the teacher wants to install e.g. tuxpaint to all the clients, he doesn't need to use a terminal
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| 13:50 | If YOU want to use a terminal, of course you can though, with all versions of ltsp
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| 13:52 | <galileo_> sorry to ask but I don't understand the current way to add a apply to client
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| 13:52 | I read the doc for few weeks now and I'm confuse
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| 13:52 | <alkisg> you read the ltsp manager wiki?
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| 13:52 | it mentions how you add programs
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| 13:52 | it's just 7 pages
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| 13:57 | <galileo_> sorry but I just look at the wiki and didn't find how to do that
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| 13:58 | <alkisg> http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Ltsp-manager/Update_image
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| 14:00 | I.e. you use your software center, install tuxpaint, and go to the update image menu
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| 14:00 | If you want to use console, it's apt install tuxpaint; ltsp-update-image -c /
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| 14:01 | The main difference is, there are no chroots. That's why it's easy.
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| 14:01 | It's not the GUI. It's the lack of chroots.
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| 14:03 | See also the previous, non-gui version, without chroots:
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| 14:03 | !ltsp-pnp
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| 14:03 | <ltsp> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is the recommented method to install and maintain LTSP for "usual" setups. Since it doesn't involve chroots, it requires little to no command line to maintain it. It automatically supports both thin and fat ltsp clients. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 14:03 | <alkisg> ltsp manager uses ltsp-pnp, and adds a gui
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| 14:03 | (and shared folders and a lot others)
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| 14:10 | <galileo_> this is a point a confuusion i didn't understand user have to install an applicaion in the server before update client image
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| 14:10 | I guess it was possible to create differents images with differents arch , apps list, desktop, ...
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| 14:11 | without install it on server
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| 14:19 | <alkisg> LTSP supports both methods
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| 14:19 | You're using the old one, which is difficult
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| 14:19 | And I'm proposing the new one, which is more suitable for schools
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| 14:20 | <galileo_> ltsp-manager --help
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| 14:20 | return nothing
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| 14:20 | <alkisg> The wiki page is the help
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| 14:21 | <galileo_> wiki don't talk about ltsp-manager use with bash
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| 14:22 | <alkisg> That's still ltsp
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| 14:22 | man ltsp-update-image
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| 14:22 | <galileo_> ok
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| 14:23 | <alkisg> There is only one version of ltsp, which supports both chroots and non-chrooted installations
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| 14:23 | So it still has the same manpages
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| 14:30 | <nehemiah> Can I use ltsp manager to manage more than one image/architecture?
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| 14:35 | <alkisg> nehemiah: sure, you manage the first one with ltsp-manager, and the rest in chroots
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| 14:45 | <nehemiah> Okay, thank you. I'm very new to ltsp. And I basically do not understand much yet. Installed Ubuntu server on my server and created a client image (not using ltsp-manager). Then I used ltsp-chroot to get into the chroot environment and installed some things and rebuilt the image. The reason for not using ltsp-manager is that ltsp manager was building and amd64 image and I need a i386 image first. Are you saying that I can install ltsp-mana
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| 14:45 | ger within my i386 chroot environment and manage the image from there? I realize that my questions might be very wrong :)
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| 14:47 | <alkisg> nehemiah: mention your setup first, number of clients, cpu/ram etc
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| 14:49 | <alkisg> Usually, it's best to have a single chroot when you have i386 and amd64 clients
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| 14:50 | <nehemiah> Gladly, my test setup is a six core amd cpu with 16gb of memory. The thin clients that I'm currently using are atom based 32bit HP thin clients. They're working great. But, we're looking to deploy this on many locations where they'll just be using anything that they have kicking around.
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| 14:51 | The number of clients, per location can vary from 25 to over 100.
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| 14:52 | <||cw> if you're not going to do thick clients then a i386 client image will do fine, even on x64 hardware.
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| 14:52 | <nehemiah> We have a second hand quad core Xeon server that would be the production environment for one of thos locations.
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| 14:52 | <||cw> you don't even want a 64bit client image unless the clients have 3GB ram or more anyway
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| 14:53 | <nehemiah> I think that we'll be sticking with thin client only setups because we basically want our users to just connect a computer/client to network and start using it.
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| 14:55 | <||cw> for ltsp manager, you'd need to install the server as 32bit. it's a very minor performance difference from 64bit due to PAE, but you likely won't notice at all due to the network latency anyway
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| 14:55 | <nehemiah> Okay, but that doesn't mean that my server installation should be 32bit right? And can I then still use ltsp-manager to manage my 32bit image?
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| 14:55 | <||cw> and desktop apps that need more than 2GB ram each are rare
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| 14:55 | <nehemiah> Oh, okay
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| 14:55 | <||cw> yes, the server OS install would be 32bit
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| 14:55 | <alkisg> !fat
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| 14:55 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'fat', but I do know about these similar topics: 'fatclient-printers', 'epoptes-fat-clients', 'fat-internal-disks', 'fat-passwd', 'fat-sudo', 'fatclients'
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| 14:55 | <alkisg> !fatclients
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| 14:55 | <ltsp> fatclients: Nowadays LTSP supports thin and fat clients. They are both diskless and netbooted from the same LTSP chroot, but while thin clients run the session on the server and transfer the screen, fat clients run the session locally with their own CPU/RAM, thus performing amazingly better. See also !ltsp-pnp and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 14:55 | <alkisg> !flash
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| 14:55 | <ltsp> flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
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| 14:57 | <||cw> nehemiah: well, fat clients are preferred. if your clients are dual core and 1.5GB+ ram they'll perform significantly better than thin
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| 14:57 | <nehemiah> Wow, didn't know they could be disk-less too.
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| 14:57 | <||cw> yeah, that's the whole point of LTSP
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| 14:59 | <nehemiah> Okay, so the reason why I went for a 64bit set-up is that I'm afraid that distros are dropping 32bit support. Should I be worried for that?
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| 14:59 | <alkisg> nehemiah: for existing clients, you can use ubuntu mate 18.04 for 5 years
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| 14:59 | For new clients, buy 64bit, and a cheap server
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| 14:59 | (existing, i mean 32 bit)
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| 15:00 | <||cw> yeah, by the time that happens, core2 systems will be the "old crap laying around"
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| 15:00 | <alkisg> A cheap fat client server (i.e. any modern pc) can easily serve 50 fat clients
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| 15:00 | <||cw> in a lot of places it already is
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| 15:07 | <nehemiah> I guess another beginners question; how do I discern if a client should be starting as fat or thin?
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| 15:08 | <alkisg> Auto is: >500 mb ram => fat, else thin
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| 15:08 | Manual with: LTSP_FATCLIENT=True/False in lts.conf,
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| 15:08 | OR with FAT_RAM_THRESHOLD if you want to separate based on RAM
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| 15:11 | <nehemiah> Thank you. Can I also disable fat client based on say, mac address? I'm just thinking that those atom based thin clients I'm testing with, have 2gb of ram but the processor performance is horrible.
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| 15:14 | <alkisg> sure
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| 15:15 | All lts.conf variables can be set per ip, per mac, per hostname etc
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| 15:16 | <||cw> nehemiah: it's still worth testing those as fat clients. network latency can be more brutal than a slow CPU sometimes.
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| 15:21 | <nehemiah> Yes, we'll definitely test it.
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| 15:46 | <galileo_> alkisg : thank's for your help and your patience
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| 15:49 | <alkisg> galileo_: np
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| 19:19 | <nehemiah> I changed my test set-up, now running Ubuntu 32bit. Installed ltsp-manager and build the client image. The client boot gets stuck to where it says '/dev/dbd0 does not exist'. What am I doing wring?
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| 19:21 | <vagrantc> "/dev/nbd0" ?
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| 19:22 | !ltsp-manager
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| 19:22 | <ltsp> ltsp-manager: LTSP Manager is a GUI tool that makes LTSP maintenance easy. It's the recommended way to install LTSP in common setups. More info: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Ltsp-manager
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| 19:22 | <nehemiah> Correct, typo.
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| 19:22 | <vagrantc> nehemiah: did you follow the instructions in the link above?
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| 19:22 | there's a prepare server step that configures the network services
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| 19:22 | well, all those steps are important
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| 19:23 | "initial setup" is the one i was thinking of
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| 19:24 | <nehemiah> No, I'm one of does guys that first tries, then fails and start reading after I failed.
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| 19:25 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i think i mentioned this before, but the flow for the ltsp-manager documentation doesn't have a link to the next step on each page ... that seems likely to cause people to miss steps ... e.g. clock on preparation, read and do all those steps, and then you press the back button and open up installation, read and do, back button, etc...
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| 19:25 | alkisg: or just having all the steps on one page?
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| 19:26 | though then maybe people get information overload...
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| 19:27 | <alkisg> vagrantc: good idea. Mediawiki may even have a plugin for next/previous page
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| 19:27 | I don't like the "all in one page" though. But, there's another, pdf export plugin, for those that need it offline
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| 19:27 | <vagrantc> alkisg: oh, that would be cool
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| 19:28 | nehemiah: i'm much the same :)
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| 19:28 | nehemiah: or at least, i skim for what i think i need, experiment, read deeper, experiment and eventually end up reading the whole thing
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| 19:28 | nehemiah: but i need the experimentation to make sense of what i'm reading
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| 19:28 | <alkisg> It took me about 2 years to get the teachers to actually read the 7 installation steps. It takes just 10 minutes, but they prefer to lose 10 hours trying instead. :D
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| 19:28 | <vagrantc> sure
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| 19:29 | :)
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| 19:29 | some of us have to learn the hard way ... hopefully without dragging too many other people into it
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| 19:29 | though i'm guessing alkisg always gets dragged into it :)
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| 19:38 | <nehemiah> I followed the steps and they didn't help. I still get that ndd0 error.
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| 19:38 | nbd0*
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| 19:40 | <vagrantc> service nbd-server status ?
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| 19:40 | <nehemiah> It says actice (running)
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| 19:41 | <vagrantc> could you paste the output of "ltsp-info --verbose" to pastebin:
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| 19:41 | !paste | echo nehemiah
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| 19:41 | <ltsp> nehemiah paste: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 19:41 | <nehemiah> One thing. On the wiki page with the installation instructions for ltsp-manager, it has some commands which we did after running the initial setup script
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| 20:11 | <nehemiah> I'm kind of stuck with the nbd thing. Here is the output of ltsp-info --verbose: https://pastebin.com/xXwECAXC
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| 20:15 | <alkisg> nehemiah: did you run the commands in the initial setup page?
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| 20:15 | Sorry, in the installation page, http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Ltsp-manager/Installation
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| 20:15 | "Warning: due to some recent bug in LTSP, you also need to manually paste the following commands in a terminal: "....
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| 20:22 | <nehemiah> Yes, I did and a double check just confirmed that the changes where made and the file was added.
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| 20:22 | What's not here is this file: /etc/ltsp/nbd-server.allow
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| 20:22 | Don't know if that makes a change
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| 20:22 | <alkisg> nehemiah: can you pastebin the contents of the /etc/nbd-server/conf.d/ltsp_$arch.conf package?
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| 20:22 | nbd-server.allow shouldn't exist
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| 20:25 | <nehemiah> https://pastebin.com/BVkpFx2v
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| 20:26 | <alkisg> Seems fine. So, what error do you get on the client?
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| 20:26 | Never mind I read it above. Do you get an initramfs> shell?
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| 20:26 | If so, try this, while putting your server IP there:
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| 20:27 | !nbd-client
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| 20:27 | <ltsp> nbd-client: To try mounting the NBD image from the client initramfs: nbd-client 192.168.67.1 -N /opt/ltsp/i386 /dev/nbd0
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| 20:27 | <nehemiah> Setting up nbd error nbd-client ... Error Socket failed : Connection refused
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| 20:28 | <alkisg> (it may be the IPAPPEND 3 line as well)
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| 20:28 | Soo...
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| 20:29 | your nbd-server is running, yet you can't connect from a client?
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| 20:29 | That doesn't sound right
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| 20:29 | <nehemiah> alksig: The manual option seemed to work
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| 20:29 | <alkisg> Ah
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| 20:29 | OK, on the client, type this:
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| 20:29 | cat /proc/cmdline
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| 20:29 | Do you see a long ip=xxxx parameter?
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| 20:31 | Actually, shorter method, on the server: cat /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default | nc termbin.com 9999
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| 20:32 | <nehemiah> http://termbin.com/huwb
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| 20:32 | <alkisg> Right, the IPAPPEND 3 didn't take effect
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| 20:32 | You probably ran those commands AFTER you did the other steps
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| 20:32 | And not in their correct order
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| 20:32 | <nehemiah> Yes, I did
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| 20:32 | <alkisg> :)
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| 20:33 | <nehemiah> I failed majorly there
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| 20:33 | <alkisg> grep ipappend /boot/pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 20:33 | Is it ipappend 3 there?
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| 20:33 | Or ipappend 2?
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| 20:33 | grep ipappend /boot/pxelinux.cfg/ltsp
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| 20:34 | <nehemiah> It's 2
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| 20:34 | <alkisg> OK, so: sudo /usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels
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| 20:35 | sudo cp /boot/pxelinux.cfg/ltsp /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/
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| 20:35 | And finally, grep ipappend /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 20:35 | Is it 3 now?
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| 20:35 | <nehemiah> Yes 3 now
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| 20:35 | <alkisg> OK, reboot client
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| 20:35 | <nehemiah> Doing it as we speak
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| 20:39 | Victory! Thank you.
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| 20:39 | <alkisg> np
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| 20:41 | <nehemiah> Okay, so I did some simple tests. I attahed my laptop to the ltsp server, and it plays video very well. Now when I boot my Atom based clients with 2gb of memory, video is a little choppy but the have Intel graphics that support HD playback.
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| 20:42 | Would it be better to use those as thin clients?
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| 20:42 | <alkisg> On the atom client, open a terminal
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| 20:42 | Does it say "user@server", or "user@ltsp123"?
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| 20:42 | <nehemiah> user@ltsp41
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| 20:43 | <alkisg> Then it's a fat client.
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| 20:43 | cat /proc/cpuinfo
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| 20:43 | What is the exact model?
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| 20:43 | <nehemiah> Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N280 @ 1.66HHz
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| 20:43 | <alkisg> https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Atom+N280+%40+1.66GHz
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| 20:43 | 287 score
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| 20:44 | This is quite low powered
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| 20:44 | For example, recent atoms are 8 times faster than that
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| 20:44 | e.g. 2000 score, while i3's have 6000 score
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| 20:44 | Now, it depends on a lot of other things
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| 20:45 | <nehemiah> I know they're very slow. Just wondering if running them as Thin clients would in this case be better. I've got about 8 of them
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| 20:45 | <alkisg> For example, tuxpaint, libreoffice impress, would run better locally
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| 20:45 | youtube might run a bit better remotely, but not full screen
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| 20:46 | it also depends on your networking, the server cpu, ram ...
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| 20:46 | It's best to actually try both modes and decide yourself
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| 20:46 | Try it with one client first, just put LTSP_FATCLIENT=False in lts.conf and reboot the atom client and check
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| 20:48 | <nehemiah> Thank you will try. I could see for a bunch of new/second hand client but in we are always on a limited budget. Is there anything you'd recommend looking into? Preferably something that's small.
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| 20:50 | Is it worth looking into getting a better graphics support for the Intel video chips my clients have? The GPU should be able to render HD.
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| 20:50 | <alkisg> !cheap-client
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| 20:50 | <ltsp> cheap-client: https://www.gearbest.com/tv-box-c_11262/nt1_windows~10/
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| 20:53 | <nehemiah> I'll look into that. I've got to of those kind 'Nexbox' but I didn't get them to boot from the network yet. Also, I didn't think them to be more powerful than the Atom client I have.
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| 20:55 | <||cw> you can get core2 small form factors for about $40 shipped on ebay, and i3's for under $60
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| 20:55 | <alkisg> They have 2000 score, 8 times faster
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| 20:55 | Check the cpubenchmark site
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| 20:56 | Booting from the network can be done easily with local kernel, even if they don't have netboot ability
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| 20:56 | (which they do)
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| 21:07 | <nehemiah> After having disabled thick client mode, my client boots to the point where LDM should be loaded and fails.
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| 21:08 | <alkisg> Intel has broken a few things
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| 21:08 | Try enabling this in lts.conf
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| 21:08 | X_SMART_COLOR_DEPTH=False
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| 21:12 | <Rsymond> Unable to boot VMWare View
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| 21:18 | <nehemiah> alkisg: That fixed it. The performance is a lot better in thin client mode for these machine. We will look into replacing them for some of those devices you suggested or even something else. Thank you for all the help.
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| 21:21 | <alkisg> np
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| 21:21 | Rsymond: is this related to ltsp?!
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| 21:22 | <Rsymond> hi alkisg
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| 21:22 | yes
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| 21:22 | <alkisg> Rsymond: ok, describe your issue in a paragraph
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| 21:22 | <nehemiah> So, another thing I'd like to try is running an LTSP server as a KVM or even better would be a container. Are there any caveats I need to be aware of?
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| 21:27 | <Rsymond> UbuntuLTSP/VMWareViewVDI follwing the ubuntu wiki but thin client is unable to communicate with server.
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| 21:28 | client is able to get an address from dhcp but stuck there
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| 21:28 | fat clients boot and runs good
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| 21:32 | <alkisg> Rsymond: which ubuntu wiki?
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| 21:33 | When you say "fat clients" do you mean diskless ltsp fat clients?
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| 21:33 | Aaaah you mean https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/VMWareViewVDI ?
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| 21:34 | That's an unmaintained thing that someone wrote in 2011, which is not related to ltsp
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| 21:34 | *I mean, to the upstream ltsp development
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| 21:35 | <Rsymond> ahh okay
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| 21:36 | <||cw> Rsymond: can you boot the client to a console prompt?
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| 21:36 | <Rsymond> it will not
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| 21:36 | <||cw> and then does running the vmview from the screen.d folder work?
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| 21:36 | well, work on that first then.
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| 21:37 | if you can boot to the normal ltsp login, then you messed up somewhere in your lts.conf maybe
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| 21:37 | <Rsymond> okay will do
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| 21:37 | <||cw> but yeah, that guide is old as hell. you'll probably want to re-implement from scratch using it as inspiration
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| 21:37 | <alkisg> Also from what I can see, vmware view was last updated in 2012?
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| 21:38 | Why are you using that then?!
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| 21:38 | There are more up to date technologies... what's your end goal, to see a windows desktop or a server?
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| 21:38 | <||cw> some people use old stuff....
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| 21:38 | but the new version is called Horizon
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| 21:39 | <alkisg> Maybe it got renamed to "vmware horizon" now...
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| 21:39 | Yeah
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| 21:39 | <Rsymond> our ogranziation has lots of samsung nc190 that they would like to reuse
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| 21:39 | with ltsp they are old as heck
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| 21:39 | lol
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| 21:40 | <alkisg> Rsymond: do those work with ltsp?
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| 21:40 | Do they support linux?
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| 21:42 | From a quick glance, they mention they're pcoip, which doesn't use a standard cpu, it can't boot linux...
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| 21:42 | <Rsymond> ahh okay
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| 21:43 | <alkisg> "thin clients" means "a bit local linux", while "zero clients" mean "no local (open) operating system"
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| 21:43 | You can put a cheap client behind them, and use them as ltsp fat clients :)
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| 21:43 | !cheap-client
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| 21:43 | <ltsp> cheap-client: https://www.gearbest.com/tv-box-c_11262/nt1_windows~10/
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| 21:45 | <Rsymond> thanks
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| 21:46 | <alkisg> np
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