IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 16 January 2015 (all times are UTC)
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| 06:04 | <austrian> I'm looking for a little clarity from anyone on using bennabiy's ppa for building a mint chroot. I'm new so please forgive the ignorance. Steps: 1. install ubuntu 14.04 server, 2. add ppa to sources, 3.??? If I apt-get install ltsp-server, won't that pull the stardard ltsp package? How do I use the mint sources that are found in the ppa?
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| 06:05 | <alkisg> austrian: try ltsp-pnp, it works fine with linuxmint 17 without using any ppa
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| 06:05 | !ltsp-pnp
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| 06:05 | <ltsp`> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 06:06 | <alkisg> I don't know about bennabiy's ppa, I haven't seen him for a while
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| 06:06 | !seen bennabiy
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| 06:06 | <ltsp`> bennabiy was last seen in #ltsp 1 week, 0 days, 4 hours, 54 minutes, and 42 seconds ago: <bennabiy> vagrantc: you here?
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| 06:06 | <austrian> I plan on trying ltsp-pnp but I want it on a headless server first.
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| 06:07 | <alkisg> austrian: put ltsp-pnp somewhere else, e.g. in a vm instead of a chroot, build the i386.img ltsp image, and then transfer it to your headless server
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| 06:07 | Managing VMs instead of chroots should be easier :)
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| 06:08 | <austrian> I've gone off the deep end and have the ltsp server as a virtual machine. The server running all of my 43 servers in a atom based cpu with very little horse power left for graphics.
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| 06:08 | <alkisg> You don't need to *start* graphics
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| 06:08 | You can have a real linuxmint installation in your headless server, and just not run graphics whenever you don't want them
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| 06:08 | <austrian> alkisg: Hmmm. That's an interesting idea. You've got me thinking.
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| 06:09 | <alkisg> I.e. if you're doing it for RAM reasons, you're doing it wrong :)
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| 06:09 | headless is for security people, that think that having xorg installed is a security issue
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| 06:09 | <austrian> I've given 4 gigs to the ltsp vm. Seems to run the 24 clients fine.
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| 06:09 | <alkisg> Lets start with the most significant question, "what are your client specs"?
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| 06:10 | I.e. will they run as fat (recommented) or as thin?
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| 06:10 | <austrian> Running as fat.
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| 06:10 | Fanless AMD units with 8 gigs of ram.
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| 06:10 | <alkisg> Then do it as I'm suggesting, it will be much better for you in all accounts
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| 06:10 | 1) install linuxmint in a vm, with graphics and everything
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| 06:11 | 2) put ltsp-pnp in it, create image etc, have ltsp completely ready
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| 06:11 | 3) start saving ram :)
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| 06:12 | <austrian> Ok. So have that headless ltsp server as is.... Use the .img file generated from the Mint ltsp-pnp machine?
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| 06:13 | <austrian> Or replace the headless completely?
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| 06:13 | Does the lts.conf file configurations work the same on ltsp-pnp?
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| 06:19 | <alkisg> austrian: replace the headless completely, it doesn't help you anywhere
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| 06:19 | lts.conf works the same, yes
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| 06:21 | <austrian> Thank you for responding. I'm going to experiment and report back.
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| 06:23 | <austrian> alkisg: Sorry, one last question: What is the advantage of using dnsmasq? I'm running fine without it with an external dhcp server.
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| 06:25 | <alkisg> austrian: the advantage is that you don't have to change anything in your external dhcp server, e.g. it could be a non-configurable router,
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| 06:25 | but in your specific case, you can just omit one line in dnsmasq, the one about proxydhcp, and configure next-server in your external dhcp server, np
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| 06:26 | dnsmasq also provides dns and tftp
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| 06:26 | So if e.g. you want to block facebook in all your ltsp clients, you have a central point to do it,
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| 06:26 | and it also speeds up things
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| 06:27 | <austrian> Any documentation on installing it on mint. Web searches seem to come up with much.
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| 06:28 | <alkisg> austrian: which mint version? 17?
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| 06:28 | <austrian> Yes please!
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| 06:28 | <alkisg> Just follow the ltsp-pnp wiki page, but ignore the steps about adding the greek schools ppa, you don't need it
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| 06:28 | <austrian> Thanks again.
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| 06:28 | <alkisg> austrian: I'll be around for a few hours,
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| 06:29 | if you want, install a clean linuxmint 17 VM and ping me then
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| 06:29 | Once you have a desktop installation, it only takes a few minutes to transform it to an ltsp-pnp server :)
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| 06:29 | <austrian> Installing now.
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| 06:33 | You've got me excited. I'm new to linux and have had to put together a large network all with linux. VERY happy with the results and also how helpful the community is.
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| 06:51 | <alkisg> austrian: linuxmint requires the "install-recommends" parameter
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| 06:52 | I've only done it once yesterday, so, to be quicker + safer, let's do this via vnc, ok?
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| 06:52 | !vnc
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| 06:52 | <ltsp`> I do not know about 'vnc', but I do know about these similar topics: 'x11vnc', 'kvm-vnc', 'vnc-plinet', 'vnc-alkisg'
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| 06:52 | <alkisg> !x11vnc
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| 06:52 | <ltsp`> x11vnc: One way to share a graphical screen with a remote person is: [local pc] port forward 5500, run: vncviewer -listen [remote pc] sudo apt-get install x11vnc; x11vnc -noshm -connect <technician-ip>
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| 06:52 | <austrian> Sorry. Don't know what install-recommends is.
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| 06:52 | <alkisg> Hmm
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| 06:52 | OK, do this:
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| 06:52 | sudo apt-get install x11vnc
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| 06:52 | x11vnc -connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr
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| 06:52 | This will share your VM screen with me
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| 06:54 | <austrian> Happy to give it a try. I'm on satellite, so with the routing that satellite companies do, we may not be able to connect.
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| 06:55 | <alkisg> It's outgoing connection, usually it works even behind firewalls...
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| 06:58 | <austrian> reverse_connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr failed
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| 06:59 | <alkisg> austrian: is this under X?
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| 07:00 | I.e. from a graphical terminal, not the real console?
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| 07:00 | <austrian> From graphical.
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| 07:00 | <alkisg> OK, no remote, let's see if we can make it work via irc,
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| 07:03 | ...i edited the ltsp-pnp wiki page to update for mint,
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| 07:03 | So, now, run these:
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| 07:03 | sudo -i
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| 07:03 | apt-get update
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| 07:03 | apt-get --yes --install-recommends install dnsmasq ltsp-server-standalone ltsp-client ldm-ubuntu-theme
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| 07:03 | ltsp-config dnsmasq
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| 07:04 | /usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels
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| 07:04 | ltsp-update-image --cleanup /
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| 07:04 | After those, try to boot a client
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| 07:04 | <austrian> Now, with ltsp-server-standalone, doesn't that install a dhcp service on the machine?
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| 07:04 | <alkisg> No, it uses dnsmasq
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| 07:05 | That's an alternative dependency, isc-dhcp OR dnsmasq
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| 07:05 | You can see the list of programs being installed when you run that apt-get install command, you won't see isc-dhcp there
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| 07:06 | Meh wait a bit
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| 07:06 | <austrian> Wow, simple install-recommends. Very cool.
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| 07:06 | <alkisg> Ah ok I'm on 12.04, yup ok false alarm, no need to wait, go on
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| 07:06 | That's a problem with linuxmint, it uses --no-install-recommends by default, which is bad
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| 07:07 | Users should report the problem to clem, to make --install-recommends the default
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| 07:07 | As it is with all other debian/ubuntu variants
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| 07:08 | <austrian> Wasn't able to locate ltsp-config
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| 07:09 | But it is installed.
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| 07:10 | <alkisg> austrian: ? what are the error messages?
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| 07:11 | ltsp-config is at /usr/sbin/ltsp-config, installed by ltsp-server
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| 07:11 | <austrian> We are building the image.
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| 07:11 | <alkisg> dpkg -S /usr/sbin/ltsp-config
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| 07:11 | ltsp-server: /usr/sbin/ltsp-config
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| 07:11 | OK
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| 07:16 | <austrian> Image built.
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| 07:16 | <alkisg> Try to boot clients
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| 07:17 | austrian: what arch are you using? i386?
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| 07:18 | (the mint cd, was it 32 or 64 bit?)
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| 07:18 | <austrian> What information do I need to place in the DHCP server? Root path and boot filename?
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| 07:18 | 64bit
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| 07:19 | <alkisg> root path and boot filename, yes
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| 07:19 | austrian: are all your clients 64 bit?
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| 07:19 | <austrian> All 64 bit.
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| 07:19 | <alkisg> Cool
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| 07:20 | path=/opt/ltsp/amd64 and filename=/ltsp/amd64/pxelinux.0
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| 07:21 | <austrian> Client: Count not find kernel image: vmlinuz
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| 07:21 | <alkisg> !pastebin
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| 07:21 | <ltsp`> pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 07:21 | <alkisg> put results there
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| 07:21 | ls -lhaR /var/lib/tftpboot /etc/nbd-server
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| 07:21 | <austrian> In the /opt/ltsp/ folder the only directory listed is images.
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| 07:21 | <alkisg> That's fine
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| 07:21 | And it should have amd64.img there
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| 07:22 | You can put small results here, e.g. up to 5 lines
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| 07:22 | another feedback needed: grep i386 /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf
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| 07:22 | <austrian> cannot access /etc/ndb-server: No such file or directory
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| 07:23 | <alkisg> nbd
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| 07:23 | not ndb
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| 07:25 | austrian: do note down any problems you encounter, so that I update the ltsp-pnp wiki page for others
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| 07:25 | <austrian> grep i386 /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf is empty.
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| 07:25 | <alkisg> Cool
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| 07:26 | <austrian> Have dhcp-range=192.168.1.0,proxy
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| 07:27 | And dhcp-option=17,/opt/ltsp/amd64 but there is no /opt/ltsp/amd64 folder.
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| 07:29 | <alkisg> It's the nbd name, not a folder
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| 07:30 | $ cat /etc/nbd-server/conf.d/ltsp_amd64.conf
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| 07:30 | [/opt/ltsp/amd64]
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| 07:30 | exportname = /opt/ltsp/images/amd64.img
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| 07:30 | It's the name of the section there []
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| 07:30 | I'm waiting for the pastebin link with the results of the ls command
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| 07:30 | (09:21:33 πμ) alkisg: ls -lhaR /var/lib/tftpboot /etc/nbd-server
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| 07:33 | <austrian> DNS isn't working on the mint box.
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| 07:34 | <alkisg> On the mint server?
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| 07:35 | Temporarily, manually edit /etc/resolv.conf and add "nameserver 8.8.8.8" there
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| 07:36 | Then put the results of the commands in pastebin
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| 07:36 | You may need to follow the section about DNS from the ltsp-pnp wiki page
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| 07:39 | <austrian> paste.ubuntu.com/9760193/
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| 07:39 | <alkisg> You're missing the kernels in tftp
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| 07:40 | That means that `ltsp-update-image -c /` didn't finish correctly
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| 07:40 | Did you see any error messages when you ran it?
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| 07:40 | <austrian> I didn't.
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| 07:40 | <alkisg> Are you here in irc from the mint box, so that you copy/paste easily?
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| 07:41 | http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ltsp&prompt=1
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| 07:41 | <austrian> No, the mint server is remote.
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| 07:41 | <alkisg> You can visit that ^ page from the mint box to be able to copy/paste easily
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| 07:41 | <alkisg> Cool
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| 07:42 | run: sudo ltsp-update-kernels
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| 07:42 | What's the output? Did the kernels now go to tftp?
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| 07:43 | <austrian> updating /var/lib/tftpboot directories for chroot: amd64
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| 07:44 | <alkisg> And again, ls -lhaR /var/lib/tftpboot
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| 07:44 | You should see a vmlinuz there if successful
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| 07:45 | <austrian> Nope.
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| 07:45 | <alkisg> austrian: do you have /boot in a different partition?
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| 07:46 | (it's not the default...)
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| 07:46 | <alkisg> What is the size of /opt/ltsp/images/amd64.img ?
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| 07:46 | <austrian> 1.3 Gb
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| 07:47 | <alkisg> It looks ok, you can loop-mount it somewhere and see if it contains the kernel:
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| 07:47 | sudo -i
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| 07:47 | mkdir /tmp/squashfs
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| 07:47 | mount -o loop,ro /opt/ltsp/images/amd64.img /tmp/squashfs
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| 07:48 | ls /tmp/squashfs/boot
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| 07:48 | umount /tmp/squashfs
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| 07:53 | <austrian> mount point /tmp/squashfs does not exist. Need to create it?
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| 07:53 | <alkisg> See the mkdir command above
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| 07:54 | <austrian> mounted
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| 07:54 | contents look nice.
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| 07:57 | <austrian> It does contain the kernel.
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| 08:01 | I did not, however, use this from the wiki : echo 'IPAPPEND=3' >> /etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf
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| 08:04 | <alkisg> You don't need it since you have an external dhcp
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| 08:12 | austrian: it sounds like ltsp-update-kernels is having problems with your setup, but sorry no time to help you debug it via irc
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| 08:12 | you could try to manually copy the kernel in tftp
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| 08:13 | Watch for any error messages while running ltsp-update-kernels etc, or run it via sh -x and post the results to pastebin
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| 08:13 | <austrian> I can do that. I'm going to give it some time and catch you later. Thank you very much for your time. I learned alot already.
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| 08:13 | <alkisg> sudo sh -x /usr/sbin/ltsp-update-kernels
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| 08:15 | <austrian> paste.ubuntu.com/9760305/
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| 08:17 | <alkisg> austrian: try this in /etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf: LIST_KERNELS_64="*"
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| 08:17 | The line exists, you just need to add a star
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| 08:17 | Then run ltsp-update-kernels again and check tftp to see if vmlinuz got there
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| 08:18 | <austrian> Nope.
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| 08:19 | Found the issue.
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| 08:20 | link for vmlinuz is in the root but not found in /boot/
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| 08:20 | <alkisg> it isn't needed there though
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| 08:20 | Wait, are you saying that the squashfs /boot/ dir doesn't contain a kernel?
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| 08:21 | <austrian> That is correct.
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| 08:21 | <alkisg> In your mint server, do you have /boot in a different partition?
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| 08:21 | <austrian> I saw the link and "ass"umed that it was in /boot.
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| 08:21 | <alkisg> (in the mint vm)
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| 08:21 | What's /etc/fstab like in your mint server?
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| 08:22 | <austrian> boot is on /dev/vda1
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| 08:22 | <alkisg> (09:45:49 πμ) alkisg: austrian: do you have /boot in a different partition?
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| 08:22 | <austrian> vlm
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| 08:23 | <alkisg> That was 40 minutes ago :)
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| 08:23 | If you had answered that, we wouldn't spend 40 times debugging it :)
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| 08:23 | Copy /boot to your root partition...
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| 08:24 | `ltsp-update-image -c /` doesn't handle nested mounts well
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| 08:24 | <austrian> My mistake.
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| 08:24 | <alkisg> Then run `ltsp-update-image -c /` as well
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| 08:24 | <austrian> So no lvm for the volume?
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| 08:25 | <alkisg> For now, do these:
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| 08:25 | sudo -i
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| 08:25 | mkdir /tmp/sda1
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| 08:25 | mount --bind / /tmp/sda1
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| 08:25 | ls /tmp/sda1/boot
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| 08:25 | (it should be empty)
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| 08:25 | cp -r /boot /mnt/sda1/boot
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| 08:25 | umount /mnt/sda1
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| 08:25 | ltsp-update-image -c /
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| 08:26 | Then file a bug report for ltsp to handle nested mounts better...
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| 08:26 | Can't you put /boot in an lvm volume?
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| 08:27 | "The ability to read files from an LVM was added with GRUB2, which means that all recent versions of Ubuntu (Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala and later) have it. "
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| 08:27 | No need for separate /boot...
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| 08:28 | <austrian> Dang. Very sorry for that.
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| 08:29 | If it makes you feel any better you taught me a tremendous amount. I can now pass it on.
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| 08:32 | <alkisg> Nah, it doesn't help, I've done that 1000 times in the last years and too few people actually contributed here later on :)
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| 08:34 | <austrian> I've been using linux for 5 months now. Finished a lts.conf gui configuration tool and working on a ldap tool for ltsp. So trying to give back.
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| 08:36 | Found the kernel and booted. Life is getting better.
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| 08:36 | <alkisg> :)
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| 08:37 | <austrian> That is just a thing of beauty. Just out of curiosity, how long have you worked with ltsp?
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| 08:39 | <alkisg> since 2008
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| 08:39 | If you want to contribute gui editors etc, it would be nice to get in touch with ltsp devs *first*
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| 08:39 | :)
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| 08:40 | <austrian> Probably a good idea. Just wanted to see if I could do it. Coming from a windows development background.
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| 08:41 | <alkisg> me too, I was for 17 years a windows dev before switching to linux in 2008
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| 08:42 | <austrian> Bad part is, I can't turn back now. Love it. LTSP has so many business possibilities. Quite frankly, I can't believe it has not exploded in popularity.
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| 08:43 | <alkisg> Since 2008 I got it in 1000+ schools in greece... :) http://www.ltsp.org/stories/widget-map/?location=Greece
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| 08:44 | Linux does need a sysadmin at some level though so it's difficult for companies that don't have support available
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| 08:44 | <austrian> That is true. So it is possible to make this into a business venture. That is encouraging.
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| 08:45 | <alkisg> If you're planning to use ltsp for a long time, and contribute to it, then do hang around here, me and vagrantc and possible others will be willing to help future contributors... although we're a bit tired by "potential" contributors that do their job and then disappear :)
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| 08:45 | <austrian> Completely understand.
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| 08:47 | One of the things I am working on now, and have chatted with vagrantc about it, is a theme randomizer.
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| 08:47 | <alkisg> theme for ldm?
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| 08:47 | <austrian> Yes.
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| 08:48 | Each boot and re-loading of the ldm it has a random theme.
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| 08:50 | <austrian> We were also looking at some ram drive configurations where the image could be cached on the client.
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| 08:54 | <alkisg> ldm is going away, don't give it too much development time
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| 08:54 | I think we do have an initramfs parameter that caches the nbd image in ram
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| 08:57 | <austrian> Guess I'm already behind. I'll be around. Helping where I can. Bash scripts are a little foreign to me as of right now.
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| 08:57 | <alkisg> python + gtk or qt would be fine too :)
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| 08:59 | <austrian> Qt is amazing. Let's do that.
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| 13:58 | <championofcyrod1> zentyal has a gui for ltsp
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| 13:58 | https://wiki.zentyal.org/wiki/En/3.0/Thin_client_service_%28LTSP%29
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| 13:59 | austrian ^
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