IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 4 September 2009 (all times are UTC)
| 00:40 | alkisg has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:48 | ltspbot has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:49 | <zamba> yeah, now it works
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| 08:49 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 08:49 | <zamba> let's see for how long
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| 08:49 | <alkisg> Hey sbalneav
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| 08:49 | <zamba> but it's incredibly choppy
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| 08:49 | <alkisg> zamba: that's with LDM_DIRECTX=true?
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| 08:50 | <zamba> alkisg: yup
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| 08:50 | <ogra> !s
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| 08:50 | <ltspbot> ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 08:50 | <alkisg> Urm... are you sure the settings actually reach the client? Can you do a "getltscfg -a" from a local client terminal?
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| 08:51 | <sbalneav> Morning ogra!
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| 08:51 | <alkisg> (or just watch a youtube video and see the ssh usage; it should be zero)
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| 08:52 | <zamba> alkisg: those three are there, yeah
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| 08:52 | <alkisg> Ok.
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| 08:52 | <zamba> just tested the bandwidth between my client and the server to 94 Mbit/s
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| 08:52 | with iperf
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| 08:52 | <alkisg> What are you watching?
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| 08:53 | <zamba> Starting playback...
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| 08:53 | AO: [pulse] Connection died: Connection terminated
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| 08:53 | i'm playing music
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| 08:53 | and then suddenly that in mplayer
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| 08:53 | which means that something crashed
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| 08:53 | 128 kbit/s mp3 stream
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| 08:53 | <alkisg> Ah, the player also shows video while playing , right? (that screen-saver-like thing)
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| 08:53 | <zamba> nope.. this is mplayer
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| 08:54 | the -potential- bandwidth
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| 08:54 | i didn't mean that i pulled 94 Mbit/s
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| 08:54 | i just checked to see if the connection was good
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| 08:54 | <alkisg> Ah, ok
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| 08:54 | <zamba> but i looks like the local server just dies
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| 08:54 | the local pulseaudio server or whatever
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| 08:55 | it plays for a few seconds (very choppy) and then just terminates
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| 08:56 | <alkisg> CPU usage on the client, while playing?
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| 08:56 | <zamba> can i add an applet for that?
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| 08:57 | will that give me the local cpu utilization?
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| 08:57 | <alkisg> I don't think so. Better do: ltsp-localapps xterm
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| 08:57 | and run top or htop inside that
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| 08:57 | <zamba> ah!
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| 08:57 | cool
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| 08:57 | nice command
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| 08:57 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 08:58 | <zamba> but it's very hard to measure that now, since i'm not able to play back any sound no more :p
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| 08:58 | have to do another reboot for that
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| 08:58 | * alkisg thinks another client reboot is required... :) | |
| 08:58 | <zamba> god damn :)
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| 09:00 | back up
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| 09:00 | anything else you want me to check before i start the playback?
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| 09:01 | choppy
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| 09:01 | 3 % cpu
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| 09:01 | 0.13 in load
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| 09:01 | <alkisg> Nah, cpu isn't the problem
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| 09:02 | <zamba> it's still playing, but it's incredibly choppy
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| 09:02 | impossible to listen to
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| 09:03 | the server yawns at it, so it's no cpu issues there either
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| 09:04 | * ogra dances | |
| 09:04 | <zamba> hm.. looks like there could be something with the network..?
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| 09:05 | <alkisg> Or soundcard drivers?
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| 09:05 | Or pulse? :D
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| 09:05 | <zamba> i restarted the playback, and now it's fine
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| 09:05 | <ogra> are your NICs running in full duplex ?
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| 09:05 | <zamba> no choppiness
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| 09:05 | and there
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| 09:05 | it crashed
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| 09:05 | pulseaudio went down
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| 09:06 | but the interesting thing is that the traffic on the server was around 200 kbit/s when not playing, but the second i started playback of audio, it sky-rocketed to around 2000 kbit/s
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| 09:06 | <alkisg> Why is that interesting?
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| 09:07 | <zamba> 1800 kbit/s for just audio?
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| 09:07 | for an 128 kbit/s mp3 stream?
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| 09:07 | <alkisg> Uncompressed? why not?
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| 09:07 | <ogra> its uncompressed
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| 09:07 | <zamba> or is it decoded on the server?
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| 09:07 | ah, ok
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| 09:07 | again, that stupid distinction :p
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| 09:07 | <ogra> thats why flash is so bad on clients ...
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| 09:07 | <zamba> which i'm learning to love :)
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| 09:07 | <ogra> imagine you add uncompressed video to that with 30fps
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| 09:08 | <alkisg> ogra: not really, flash is bad even without network involved :)
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| 09:08 | <zamba> but what is causing the local server to crash?
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| 09:08 | <alkisg> Totem with no xv is much, much better than flash
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| 09:08 | <zamba> it's a local pulseaudio server, right?
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| 09:08 | <ogra> *and* the server tries to keep video and audio in sync :)
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| 09:08 | <alkisg> ...and totem with xv is perfect :)
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| 09:09 | * ogra goes back to watch his OO.o build on armel ... | |
| 09:09 | <alkisg> I don't know what flash does... calls putpixel instead of putimage? :-O
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| 09:09 | <ogra> probably putbit for every of the 16 bpp
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| 09:09 | :)
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| 09:10 | <zamba> any ideas, wise people? :)
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| 09:10 | <sbalneav> !flash
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| 09:10 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: "flash" is Yes, flash sucks. Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try the HQtube plugin. Install greasemonkey for firefox, and see http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/24999
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| 09:11 | <sbalneav> I use HQtube now
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| 09:11 | much better
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| 09:11 | <alkisg> sbalneav: if it could be easily installed for all users, it would be nice... but... :(
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| 09:11 | <sbalneav> I think you can have global GM scripts, can't you?
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| 09:12 | <alkisg> I don't think even greasemonkey can be globally installed :)
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| 09:12 | <sbalneav> You apt-get install it :)
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| 09:12 | <alkisg> Ah yes, it was the script that was the problem
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| 09:16 | <zamba> alkisg: could look like driver issues
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| 09:16 | <alkisg> Try another client, if you have handy...
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| 09:16 | <zamba> alkisg: tried on another machine now.. it had the same choppiness symptom for the first playbacks.. but then it settled with nice sound..
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| 09:16 | and it has been playing for 80 seconds now
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| 09:17 | <planxa> hola
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| 09:19 | <sbalneav> alkisg: Well, if GM doesn't support a global scripts option, then that's something we should file a bug on. I've googled around a bit, and you're right, I'm not coming up with any OBVIOUS hits.
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| 09:19 | planxa: hello
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| 09:19 | <zamba> 270 seconds and still playing :)
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| 09:20 | <alkisg> sbalneav: right, a feature request for that would be nice ;)
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| 09:20 | <sbalneav> Makes sense, if for nothing else other than HQtube.
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| 09:21 | I wonder what would happen if you just dumped a script into /usr/lib/firefox<mumble>/gm_scripts
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| 09:24 | <Blinny> zamba: Are you sure the choppiness isn't just low bandwidth to the world? Where the burst buffering isn't sufficient to cover the first few seconds? Maybe an underrun causes the crash.
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| 09:34 | <planxa> | |
| 09:38 | <alkisg> Μμμμμ αν θες στα ελληνικά, κάτι γίνεται... :)
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| 09:41 | <elias_a> En minä tuosta ymmärtänyt hölkäsen pöläystä, mutta LTSP on hieno juttu!
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| 09:41 | ;-)
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| 09:42 | Prego!
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| 09:43 | <ogra> alkisg, which is what ?
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| 09:44 | <alkisg> Nah, google translate didn't work :) I said that I could help him if he spoke greek :)
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| 09:44 | <ogra> ah
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| 09:44 | not even the german translation was close to that
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| 09:45 | <sbalneav> ᛊᚲᛟᛏᛏ
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| 09:45 | There's my first name in Futhork
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| 09:51 | <Blinny> heh
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| 10:31 | <alkisg> If I'm going to do user management in python, is this a good way to go? http://docs.python.org/library/pwd.html
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| 10:32 | <garymc> Had this problem a couple of weeks back managed to rectify but lost my paper telling me how. My problem, with one account only. When i load http://localhost/insert_record.php it asks to save it etc and doesnt load it in the browser. Now any other account loads it in the browser just not the one i use "Gary" This is in an LTSP server using Ubuntu server 9.04
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| 10:36 | <sbalneav> alkisg: The problem with user management THAT way is it only supports pwd *files*, which is exactly the problem we're in now.
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| 10:36 | alkisg: Here's my thoughts on the subject (FWIW)
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| 10:36 | <alkisg> sbalneav: the equivelant c function says it also supports nis and ldap
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| 10:37 | <sbalneav> For lookup, if nss is working
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| 10:37 | NOT for creating.
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| 10:37 | <alkisg> Ah :(
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| 10:37 | I'm all ears :)
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| 10:37 | <sbalneav> The add* tools are written in perl, and fairly standard across all distros.
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| 10:37 | i.e. adduser, addgroup, usermod, etc.
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| 10:38 | Lots of *other* graphical user managers/stuff has been built on top of those over the years.
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| 10:38 | <alkisg> And for reading? getent?
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| 10:39 | <sbalneav> Right. Lookup's not the problem. The libnss-* family provides a good solution for READING the info
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| 10:40 | NONE of the interfaces, however, handle the PUT side of things.
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| 10:40 | <alkisg> Sooo.... http://docs.python.org/library/pwd.html for reading, and adduser/group etc for writing, right?
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| 10:40 | <garymc> anyone?
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| 10:41 | <sbalneav> alkisg: right
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| 10:41 | <alkisg> sbalneav: what about useradd? E.g. how would I restore a shadow file entry?
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| 10:41 | (I mean the encrypted password)
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| 10:41 | <sbalneav> Well, those would need to be modified too,
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| 10:42 | *IDEALLY*, what we *really* need to do is get putpwent() and putgrent() calls to NOT write directly to /etc/passwd and /etc/group, but go through whatever mechanism's defined in libnss
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| 10:43 | the get(pw|gr)ent calls do that, but not the put.
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| 10:43 | In other words, libnss-* interfaces only handle READING, and not WRITING.
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| 10:43 | <alkisg> Hmmm ok but can we really do something about this? Isn't all this low level stuff handled by, I don't know, more professional coders?
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| 10:44 | <sbalneav> No more professional than we are :)
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| 10:44 | <alkisg> Yey :)
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| 10:44 | <sbalneav> I added the original shadow password support to libpam-ldap.
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| 10:45 | sbalneav@feniks:~$ cat /usr/share/doc/libpam-ldap/AUTHORS | grep Scott Scott Balneaves <sbalneav@legalaid.mb.ca>
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| 10:46 | <alkisg> Got it. So (as a newbie in the python & nss & linux world) I could start by using putpwent(), and when I'm finished (and more experienced :)) I could try sending patches so that it works for ldap, nis etc...
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| 10:46 | <sbalneav> I've just never found the time to sit down and dig into libnss-ldap and hack together the putpwent and putgrent support.
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| 10:47 | If I got off my *ss and did that... :)
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| 10:47 | <alkisg> Hmmm now to find something to get sbalneav off his *ss.... :D
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| 10:47 | <sbalneav> Yeah, I sit around all day doing nothing :)
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| 10:47 | <wima> sbalneav: a lot of people with ldap setups also have their samba stuff in there. the smbldap* tools make sure that unix and windows stay in sync. Would such a thing be possible?
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| 10:48 | <sbalneav> Well, with a proper putpwent and putgrent support, it would be easier, sure.
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| 10:48 | <zamba> Blinny: should be more than enough bandwidth to be able to provide a 128 kbit/s stream
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| 10:48 | Blinny: i've never experienced that with any other machine in the network
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| 10:49 | Blinny: and i had to restart mplayer/audacious a couple of times to make the choppiness to away
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| 10:49 | meaning.. the buffers got emptied every time
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| 10:49 | <sbalneav> Sigh. Well, when I get done with major sabayon hacking/cleanup, maybe that'll be my next project.
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| 10:51 | http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-shadow-devel/2008-June/006649.html
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| 10:51 | <wima> i'm doing a little web front-end that goes straight for the ldap db for user management
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| 10:51 | <sbalneav> See, the shadow supports still doing things like opening the /etc/password file directly :(
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| 10:53 | <alkisg> Hmmm but he also says that some support is there for going through libnss...
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| 10:54 | <sbalneav> The problem would be, at least for a put(pw|gr)ent, is libnss-ldap would need a "template" file somewhere, that the site could modify to indicate things like which ou groups and users get pushed to, etc.
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| 10:54 | arrgh
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| 10:54 | * sbalneav goes off to apt-get source libnss-ldap | |
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| 10:57 | <sbalneav> egrep "^_nss_ldap_" ldap-pwd.c | grep put
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| 10:58 | nada.
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| 10:58 | And that's the problem.
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| 10:59 | If we had that, then if you had ldap set up correctly in your /etc/nsswitch.conf file, and just did a regular "adduser" that made a call to "putpwent" eventually...
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| 10:59 | things would "Just Work" (c)(r)
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| 11:00 | and none of this hokey baloney would be needed.
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| 11:00 | The Ubuntu user manager would allow you to add users to your ldap server.
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| 11:00 | useradd, usermod, etc, all happy.
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| 11:01 | World peace. Christians, Muslims and Jews living in harmony. A brotherhood of man.
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| 11:01 | * sbalneav starts to hum "Age of Aquarius" | |
| 11:01 | <alkisg> Heh :)
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| 11:02 | Sounds like a good project... O:-)
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| 11:03 | <sbalneav> It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains. The stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
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| 11:03 | A free beer for the first person who identifies the quote.
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| 11:04 | * sbalneav peers around the channel | |
| 11:04 | <rjune_> sbalneav: sappho has good juice
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| 11:04 | <ogra> dune
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| 11:04 | <sbalneav> Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?
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| 11:04 | Ding Din Ding
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| 11:04 | We have a winner
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| 11:05 | <ogra> :)
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| 11:05 | <rjune_> Dune has some good quotes
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| 11:05 | <ogra> and that while i'm in a meeting and on a conf call at the same time ;)
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| 11:05 | <sbalneav> One of my favorite series of books
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| 11:06 | Not the new crappy ones like "The Butlerian Jihad" that these other Frank Herbert wannabees are writing.
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| 11:06 | <ogra> (so much about exciting ubuntu meetings :P )
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| 11:07 | sbalneav is now known as RocketMan | |
| 11:07 | <RocketMan> I heard that
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| 11:07 | RocketMan is now known as sbalneav | |
| 11:07 | <ogra> haha
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| 12:54 | <cnc> morning guys
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| 12:54 | for the last month or so, all my pxe machines are doing something weird with sound and video. the sound clips and video clips play so fast it's like they're on fast forward
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| 12:54 | any ideas?
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| 12:55 | <Blinny> cnc: You need a slower server.
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| 12:55 | <cnc> Blinny: lol
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| 12:55 | <alkisg> Put more machines :)
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| 12:55 | <Blinny> I'll be happy to trade you a slow one for your unwanted newish fast one.
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| 12:56 | <Lns> hahaha...cnc actually i remember having that issue a while back
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| 12:56 | <cnc> Lns: lol
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| 12:56 | any ideas?
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| 12:56 | i told the users, learn to listen and watch faster
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| 12:56 | <Lns> jeez its been so long..i think it had something to do w/alsa+pa
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| 12:56 | =p
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| 12:56 | cnc, dist?
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| 12:56 | <cnc> so switch to oss?
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| 12:56 | ubuntu 9.04
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| 12:57 | Lns: what does your lts.conf default look like
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| 12:58 | <Lns> cnc, it's got nothing fancy in there that would mess w/sound
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| 12:58 | * Lns is trying to remember what he did to fix it | |
| 12:58 | <cnc> * Massages Lns's brain..... *
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| 13:00 | <Lns> cnc, have you tweaked the sound settings at all since install?
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| 13:00 | I remember i had this issue back in the gutsy days
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| 13:01 | <cnc> Lns: no haven't changed a thing
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| 13:01 | Lns: it worked during the summer, I left it alone and then started getting reports
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| 13:01 | <Lns> have you updated server+chroot?
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| 13:01 | <cnc> i've updated the server
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| 13:01 | but not hte chroot
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| 13:03 | <Lns> i'd do that for good measure
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| 13:03 | <cnc> k let me find that command
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| 13:04 | <Lns> cnc, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/UpdatingChroot - should work mostly for jaunty too
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| 13:04 | just read it and s/hardy/jaunty/
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| 13:05 | * Lns should update that page to just copy the sources.list from server to chroot instead of manually adding lines | |
| 13:05 | <cnc> Lns: ty sir I will try that now, should I have all the clients logout?
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| 13:06 | <Lns> cnc, you dn't have to until you rebuild the nbd image
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| 13:06 | that's what the clients are pulling from
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| 13:06 | and have them reboot after you rebuild the image
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| 13:07 | <cnc> so don't have to until i do sudo ltsp-update-image ?
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| 13:07 | <Lns> right
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| 13:07 | <cnc> Lns: thank you I will try that and let you know how it turns out
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| 13:07 | <Lns> cool
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| 13:09 | <alkisg> Lns, isn't that "sudo cp -a /opt/ltsp /opt/ltsp-orig sudo rm -Rf /opt/ltsp/*" the same as "sudo mv /opt/ltsp/ /opt/ltsp-orig sudo mkdir /opt/ltsp" but a lot faster because it doesn't copy the contents?
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| 13:10 | <ftherese> I have a problem with mounting smb in ltsp
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| 13:11 | I have followed all the instructions online for mounting, but nothing I have done has enabled the user to access in rw mode
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| 13:11 | If I connect by browsing the network in ubuntu
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| 13:12 | I can mount it, but I have not found a way to write the fstab file that actually works
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| 13:12 | I am wondering if the authentication issue has anything to do with ltsp
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| 13:13 | <Gadi> ftherese: are you trying to automount an smb share on login?
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| 13:13 | <ftherese> yes
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| 13:13 | <Lns> alkisg, heh! yes. updating..geez
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| 13:13 | alkisg, well, if there are ppl logged in, that might not be a good idea
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| 13:13 | (mv)
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| 13:13 | <alkisg> I think mv is better than cp / rm in this case
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| 13:13 | <Gadi> ftherese: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ActiveDirectoryIntegration
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| 13:14 | follow the bottom part
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| 13:14 | <Lns> alkisg, agreed
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| 13:14 | <alkisg> Lns, because the files that are in use will still be accessible
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| 13:14 | <ftherese> Gadi: thanks, I'll try that
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| 13:15 | Gadi: do you think I'll need to install the libpam-mount package?
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| 13:15 | <Gadi> yes
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| 13:15 | <Lns> alkisg, the nbd image will still sit around you mean?
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| 13:15 | <Gadi> if you intend to follow that wiki
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| 13:15 | <ftherese> yup
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| 13:16 | now i see that I've got to
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| 13:16 | <alkisg> Lns: that's a little deeper than my current linux knowledge, but I imagine that if nbd-server has the nbd file open, and you move it, then yes, it should still be accessible
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| 13:16 | But others here would know better
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| 13:19 | <Lns> i can at least put a disclaimer to have ppl logged out for now
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| 13:19 | should probably be a good thing when you're doing a major update anyway :)
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| 13:19 | <alkisg> Heh true :)
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| 13:26 | <Lns> done and done
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| 13:41 | <ftherese> Gadi: I am loging out, going to test it
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| 13:48 | <ftherese> Gadi: I followed those instructions
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| 13:48 | Gadi: to no avail
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| 13:50 | <sbalneav> alkisg: Meh, even worse than I thought
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| 13:50 | <alkisg> Ouch. Why?
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| 13:50 | * alkisg already started with python and the pwd module | |
| 13:50 | <sbalneav> the nss functionality in libc6 *itself* only supports gets.
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| 13:51 | <alkisg> Aaaah.... :( :( :(
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| 13:51 | <sbalneav> That is *completely* broken, IMHO
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| 13:51 | So.
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| 13:51 | Now I need to find out: is NSS a "standard" somewhere that *exclusively forbids* put operations?
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| 13:52 | This could turn into a massive project :)
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| 13:52 | <alkisg> I'd love to help, but about 1m over my head here...
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| 13:53 | *I'm
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| 13:54 | vmlintu has quit IRC | |
| 13:57 | * alkisg loves the python pwd module... all_users = pwd.getpwall() :) | |
| 14:05 | ftherese has quit IRC | |
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| 14:12 | ftherese has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:13 | <ftherese> Ok, so I've followed the Active Directory instructions on the community pages, and I still can't get write access to the share, anyone have any ideas?
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| 14:14 | johnny has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:15 | <Appiah> Anyway to make the terminals turn off if they are just on the login for lets say... 10min?
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| 14:17 | <johnny> no way that exists now
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| 14:18 | <Appiah> =/
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| 14:18 | <johnny> i know there is a timer in there for the timed autologin function, perhaps a hook could be placed for that
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| 14:19 | i don't know if anybody will want to spend the time to implement it tho
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| 14:19 | ftherese has quit IRC | |
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| 14:29 | <sbalneav> Appiah: You could just hack the LDM program with an alarm() call.
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| 14:29 | OK, Heading off for the long weekend
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| 14:30 | Cheers, all
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| 14:30 | <alkisg> Ciao sbalneav
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| 14:30 | <Appiah> _just_ hack
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| 14:30 | I suck at c
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| 14:31 | well if it's just something like that
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| 14:31 | I could put it on the LTSP wishlist ?
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| 14:32 | <alkisg> I think there's a timer somewhere else that puts the monitor in sleep mode, maybe you could hook on that instead of ldm
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| 14:33 | <Appiah> I still have NO idea on how to do that
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| 14:34 | I'll reques the feature..
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| 14:37 | <johnny> alkisg, i think that's just setting dpms..
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| 14:37 | Appiah, i really doubt you'll get a result in any decent time frame
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| 14:38 | i don't think there is a way to find out from ldm where it is at
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| 14:38 | <Appiah> I dont need it _now_
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| 14:38 | <johnny> i can't recall if it stays active (i've never looked) after login
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| 14:38 | <Appiah> It would be nice thou
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| 14:38 | <johnny> if it doesn't stay active after login you can just write a cron
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| 14:38 | vagrantc has quit IRC | |
| 14:39 | <johnny> but it sounds like it must
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| 14:44 | primeministerp has quit IRC | |
| 14:45 | <Appiah> I was thinking of places where the TC maybe is only used 2or3 hours of the day
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| 14:46 | and it just stands there on until someone logs on
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| 14:46 | or cut the power before weekends
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| 14:48 | vmlintu has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:51 | <Lns> Appiah, there are ways to do it on a scheduled basis via cron if that works, though i see a great use case for what you're suggesting
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| 14:54 | <Appiah> I dont see how I can do that with cron
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| 14:54 | how can the script see if anyone has been logged on ?
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| 14:54 | time based
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| 14:56 | <Lns> Appiah, i meant cron at certain times of the day, not after a certain amount of time with nobody logging in
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| 14:57 | tylerfixer has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:57 | <johnny> you an cut the power before weekends fine
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| 14:57 | via cron
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| 14:57 | just not the logged in part
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| 14:58 | since ldm is always running, there is no way to ask ldm whether somebody is logged in
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| 14:58 | oh.. there is one idea..
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| 14:58 | write a script that greps /var/log/ldm.log
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| 14:58 | hacky.. but it might work
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| 14:58 | and then cron the script to run every 5 minutes or whatever
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| 14:59 | <tylerfixer> Howdy all! I have a quick question regarding high Xorg cpu usage on my HP t5520 thin clients.It seems that Xorg is always using 99.9% cpu, even just displaying the desktop. I do have the correct Xorg drivers for my hardware (Via UniChrome), and they are working, but for some reason the clients are still using 99%cpu
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| 14:59 | <johnny> Appiah, look in /var/log/ldm.log to see what you need to grep for
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| 15:00 | tylerfixer, perhaps try the vesa drivers..
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| 15:00 | see if it is better.. not that i'm suggesting that is the proper thing you should be doing :..
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| 15:00 | but at least you might know where the problem lies
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| 15:00 | <tylerfixer> here's what's interesting.. at the LDM desktop login screen, Xorg is using the correct amount of CPU usage (around 1-2%)
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| 15:01 | but as soon as I connect using LDM or even XDMCP the cpu usage shoots through the roof
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| 15:01 | nubae has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:03 | <nubae> Ubuntu One is weird enough... wanted to figure out what it was, so clicked on it... tries t take me to my launchpad page over and over... ie never changing from the "sign in as Nubae" page
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| 15:03 | <Appiah> Lns: ye that I can make
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| 15:03 | shutdown everyday after school/office hours
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| 15:03 | but I dont see how to make an inactivity based shutdown
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| 15:04 | <nubae> oh... guadalinex has something like that in its app, Gesuser... u might want to take a look, its supposed to be open source
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| 15:05 | <johnny> Appiah, i just told you
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| 15:05 | of course it only works in the case that you suggested
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| 15:05 | which is not logging into ldm at all
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| 15:06 | <Appiah> sorry thought you were taking about shutting down on weekends / end of the days
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| 15:06 | <johnny> both
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| 15:06 | <Appiah> that's no problem for me
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| 15:06 | it's the timebased inactivity I dont get :D
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| 15:06 | <johnny> i just told you how to check for inactivity
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| 15:06 | for lack of ldm login
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| 15:06 | <Appiah> I'll readu p
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| 15:06 | read up*
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| 15:07 | <tylerfixer> Okay, so I just tried the VESA driver, and it's the same, if not worse
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| 15:07 | <johnny> grep "whateverldmloginstring" /var/log/ldm.log
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| 15:07 | you might need to save the results of the check on a temporary file
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| 15:07 | by time
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| 15:09 | <tylerfixer> Anyone got any ideas as to why Xorg would use so much cpu on the thin clients when connected through "X -query" or LDM ?
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| 15:09 | <Appiah> what desktop is it loading?
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| 15:09 | <tylerfixer> Gnome
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| 15:09 | <Appiah> any localapps running?
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| 15:10 | <tylerfixer> no local apps on the thin clients
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| 15:14 | are there any logfiles you'd recommend me to check on the thin clients?
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| 15:14 | I'm pretty sure that it's not the server, too, since it's waaay overspec'd for a thin client server (16gb ram, 2x dual core opterons@ 2.4ghz)
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| 15:15 | <johnny> tylerfixer, the standard stuff in /var/log
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| 15:16 | moquist has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:16 | <tylerfixer> i've checked the xorg.6.log file, and I haven't found anything too interesting, just a bunch of debug information from the Via unichrome driver
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| 15:18 | <tylerfixer> oh, and it would probably help to state that I have enabled LDM_DIRECTX=True, and I have verified that it is working with getltscfg
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| 15:21 | <nubae> tylerfixer: what is so much cpu and with what apps running?
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| 15:21 | oops
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| 15:21 | scratch last part... not reading properly
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| 15:21 | <tylerfixer> well, on the client, the Xorg process is using 99.4% cpu just sitting here
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| 15:21 | no worries :)
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| 15:21 | <nubae> wow ok
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| 15:22 | <tylerfixer> i have pidgin open, and that's it
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| 15:22 | if i CTRL+ALT+F1 and run top, Xorg is bringing this system to a crawl
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| 15:22 | <nubae> can u do a ps aux and pastebin it
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| 15:22 | <tylerfixer> sure can do
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| 15:23 | will the clipboard transfer from a VT on the thin client to the x session?
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| 15:23 | <nubae> think at least we can do process of elimination by killing deamons
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| 15:23 | <tylerfixer> okay
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| 15:23 | <nubae> hehe... that sounded funny
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| 15:23 | <tylerfixer> demon slaying... sounds fun!
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| 15:24 | <nubae> yeah killing the 'nice' deamons
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| 15:24 | (grin)
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| 15:24 | we'll have to make them angry.... then kill
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| 15:25 | <alkisg> tylerfixer: do you have both italc installed and vino enabled?
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| 15:25 | <tylerfixer> I'm not sure what you mean, I've never heard of italc or vino
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| 15:25 | <alkisg> OK, then you don't :)
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| 15:25 | <nubae> well we'll get to see which deamons aren't playing nice from the ps cat
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| 15:26 | <alkisg> I had such high cpu usage in xorg when italc and vino (both are vnc servers) were at the same, 5900, port
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| 15:26 | ...and I couldn't understand why, because *they* didn't cause any cpu usage; only xorg did
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| 15:27 | <tylerfixer> hmm... the cpu usage is on the client, not the server...
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| 15:27 | <alkisg> Yes, on the client
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| 15:27 | <tylerfixer> hmm, how would I check?
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| 15:27 | <nubae> login the to the client via ssh (enabling root pass first)
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| 15:27 | <alkisg> No, if you don't have those programs installed it's something else for you. I'm just saying that it was difficult for me to pinpoint the problem...
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| 15:27 | <nubae> well, enable root pass, rebuild image
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| 15:28 | <cnc> exsudo umount /opt/ltsp/i386/proc
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| 15:28 | <nubae> alkisg is right though, its probably some app on the sever
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| 15:28 | <cnc> lol wrong windows sorry
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| 15:29 | <nubae> u running anything SDL based on the thin clients?
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| 15:29 | cnc has quit IRC | |
| 15:29 | <nubae> maybe using alsa?
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| 15:29 | <tylerfixer> I have root password enabled, and I can switch to the local console
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| 15:29 | I DO have sound enabled
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| 15:29 | but it's through pulseaudio
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| 15:30 | <nubae> ah, well then it shold be ok... there used to be a serious CPU hogging issue with SDL apps when not running through pulse
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| 15:30 | <tylerfixer> here's my ps aux -- http://pastebin.ca/1554239
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| 15:31 | <alkisg> tylerfixer: also do a netstat -tulpn, maybe it'll show something...
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| 15:31 | <tylerfixer> okay
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| 15:32 | just X, pulseaudio, and ltspfsd
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| 15:32 | <nubae> btw... htop is a nice app to use for checking these values too
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| 15:33 | <tylerfixer> htop? never heard of it either, but i can apt-get it for you if it makes diagnosing this easier
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| 15:33 | <nubae> yeah will give u some good info
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| 15:33 | its top, but a little nicer
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| 15:35 | mine, for example, tells me flash is taking most of the cpu, as is expected
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| 15:35 | <johnny> uggh flash
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| 15:35 | how i hate you
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| 15:35 | <nubae> :-(
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| 15:37 | wow, firefox, just gave me the coolest failure notice... it stats with "well, this is embarrasing"
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| 15:38 | <nubae> gon upload it to flicker... never seen anything like that...
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| 15:38 | <tylerfixer1> sorry about that, my thin client crashed
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| 15:38 | did I miss anything?
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| 15:39 | <nubae> no.... but the thin client crashing sounds related to the high cpu usage
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| 15:39 | <tylerfixer1> yep
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| 15:39 | it overheated
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| 15:40 | <alkisg> tylerfixer1: there was a how-to-x-troubleshooting in the ubuntu wiki somewhere, that suggested closing all the apps one-by-one to isolate the problem of high X usage. Maybe you should try that; I.e. run gnome-system-monitor and start killing all *user* processes...
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| 15:40 | <tylerfixer1> kids had just finished a session of youtube (much to their dismay, it was more like a slideshow) so the CPU was primed for failure
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| 15:40 | aliksg: interesting idea
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| 15:41 | i suppose i could just start randomly killing things
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| 15:41 | processes related to Gnome, right?
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| 15:41 | <alkisg> Well, all the processes that get started by the user that is logged on that terminal
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| 15:41 | Not specifically gnome-related...
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| 15:41 | <tylerfixer1> okay
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| 15:41 | moldy has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:41 | <tylerfixer1> let me try that
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| 15:41 | <moldy> hey
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| 15:41 | bieb has left #ltsp | |
| 15:42 | <nubae> well, I would kill them based on niceness
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| 15:42 | <alkisg> tylerfixer1: and of course after each kill, see if that fixes the cpu problem
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| 15:42 | <tylerfixer1> yeah, let me try to bring up a local xterm on the other thin client and start killing things
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| 15:42 | to see when the usage goes down
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| 15:45 | hmm i killed pulseaudio on the server, and the cpu usage on the client went up-- now pulseaudio on the client is using 2% cpu
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| 15:47 | this is very strange.. xorg just sitting there on one of the clients is now using 99.2% cpu
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| 15:48 | just on the gnome desktop. I have killed the panels and most other processes
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| 15:48 | and xorg is just chewing up that cpu
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| 15:51 | hey.. interesting log line from Xorg -- "(WW) CHROME(0): [drm] for optimal performance, please increase the frame buffer"
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| 15:54 | does it help at all to know that my ltsp chroot is of Ubuntu 8.04 ?
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| 15:55 | well, i've got to go for the moment, but I will be back later tomorrow
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| 15:56 | thanks for all your ideas
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| 16:04 | vagrantc has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:09 | Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:09 | <Q-FUNK> re
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| 16:12 | <nubae> gosh... open source really is just a one way battle...
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| 16:12 | the more one gives, the more people bite your arm off
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| 16:22 | <alkisg> relax... it's just words :) I'm sure the feelings say differently
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| 16:23 | <vagrantc> that's why i study aikido. so i can defend myself and my users from themselves
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| 16:24 | <alkisg> vagrantc: the new beta rom-o-matic allows for embedding scripts when you press [configure]!! http://etherboot.org/share/mdc/gpxe.git/contrib/rom-o-matic/build.php
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| 16:24 | <vagrantc> ooooh.
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| 16:24 | <alkisg> That *is* *cool* :)
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| 16:25 | * vagrantc bites someone's arm off | |
| 16:28 | <vagrantc> alkisg: it's stuff like that that makes a network-bootable gPXE very attractive.
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| 16:28 | if pxeclient != gGPXE, load gPXE over the net
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| 16:28 | <alkisg> Yeah... if only we could replace the boot roms with this easily, we wouldn't even need tftp :)
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| 16:29 | pmatulis has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:29 | * vagrantc used to use custom etherboot images that downloaded the kernel/initrd over NFS | |
| 16:29 | <alkisg> Yeah, one of the devs even made me a patch for reading scripts directly from gpxe.txt files
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| 16:30 | (passed as initrds)
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| 16:32 | <vagrantc> does gPXE support https for network boot?
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| 16:32 | <alkisg> Yes, but I don't know how mature that is
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| 16:32 | <vagrantc> you'd have to configure each terminal with the right certificates, but it'd actually be a way to get secure network booting if you really needed it.
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| 16:33 | Gadi has left #ltsp | |
| 16:34 | fotanus has left #ltsp | |
| 16:37 | <alkisg> Um my script didn't work... :(
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| 16:38 | Ooops I forgot to put #!gpxe on top.... retrying...
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| 16:38 | <zamba> alkisg: what are you trying to do?
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| 16:38 | <Q-FUNK> I'm wondering if they ever got gPXE to properly build over Coreboot?
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| 16:38 | <nubae> alkisg: thing is.... on irc... words is all we got... so we need to be careful how we use them... I've had my fair share of misunderstandings... but soemtimes its difficult to interpret something in any way than negative
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| 16:38 | <alkisg> zamba: to create a customized gpxe disk by just using the beta version of rom-o-matic
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| 16:39 | nubae: see the logs, he didn't mean to offend you
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| 16:39 | He says so after you left
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| 16:40 | <zamba> i've barely scratched the surface of gpxe.. but what can it bring to the table when it comes to ltsp?
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| 16:40 | <alkisg> *Yup it works fine! Way to go, gpxe!*
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| 16:40 | Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:41 | <alkisg> zamba: It can boot ltsp with no dhcp server at all, or over http
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| 16:41 | <nubae> well fine, but its not the first time I've had folks say stuff in that way to me, when I've busted my balls to make life easier for newcomers... it just starts to get to you after a while
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| 16:41 | the fun starts to fade
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| 16:41 | <zamba> alkisg: over http instead of using tft?
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| 16:41 | alkisg: tftp*
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| 16:41 | <alkisg> zamba: yup
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| 16:41 | <zamba> alkisg: which means a faster boot, right?
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| 16:41 | <nubae> but never mind me... I', just ranting now
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| 16:42 | <alkisg> zamba: yes, among other things. You can e.g. boot ltsp over the internet
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| 16:42 | <zamba> alkisg: cool
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| 16:42 | <alkisg> nubae: I know the feeling. Don't let it get to you... I'm sure he didn't mean it like you understood it
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| 16:43 | <vagrantc> and if they did mean it so badly, blow them off. it's not worth it.
| |
| 16:43 | * vagrantc is commenting without knowing any context | |
| 16:44 | <nubae> vagrantc: thats what I did... left the channel
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| 16:45 | btw... importing git branches straight into bazaar is way cool
| |
| 16:45 | work via git, and then with a single click bam its in launchpad... love it
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| 16:54 | alkisg has quit IRC | |
| 17:10 | <sbalneav> Yeah, don't turn into a bitter old fart like me.
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| 17:12 | vagrantc: At least I'm not Ulrich Drepper bitter.
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| 17:12 | <vagrantc> i'm a bitter old fart too. hell, i *still* use NFS.
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| 17:15 | gentgeen__ has quit IRC | |
| 17:15 | <sbalneav> YOU're not that old, you're young
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| 17:15 | <Q-FUNK> Drepper...
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| 17:15 | <sbalneav> You're like, not even 30 yet
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| 17:15 | * Q-FUNK faits | |
| 17:15 | <nubae> sbalneav: I never appreciated how much shit u put with till lately :-)
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| 17:15 | its really a wonder you're still around
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| 17:15 | <sbalneav> The only time my ire gets up, and the one kind of whine that will ALWAYS get a rise out of me is...
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| 17:16 | "Why doesn't someone here (write|fix) X?"
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| 17:16 | To which my answer is, always, a variation of:
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| 17:16 | * vagrantc is an old young fart | |
| 17:16 | <Q-FUNK> what's wrong with X?
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| 17:17 | <sbalneav> "What, are *YOUR* fingers broken?"
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| 17:17 | X the variable
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| 17:17 | Not X the windowing system :)
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| 17:17 | <nubae> sbalneav: well, thats exactly what happened, only that it was after I made a suggestion to use a particular tool
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| 17:17 | <Q-FUNK> teenage vagrant ninja turtle? ;)
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| 17:17 | <nubae> I'm not gonna get into it though...
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| 17:17 | <vagrantc> we'll start with your fingers, if that doesn't convince you, we'll go for the knees. that'll teach people to contribute proper-like.
| |
| 17:18 | * vagrantc flips a coin | |
| 17:18 | <Q-FUNK> that shot with William Shatner going after a holder with this tiny gun is preceless.
| |
| 17:18 | <nubae> was like.... you can use zsync.,.., they were like, how do u do that... I said.. well google it and then write a tutorial... to which they said... ah u dont know how to use it... why dont U write a tutorial
| |
| 17:19 | shit... I said I wasnn't gonna let it get to me
| |
| 17:19 | ...
| |
| 17:19 | <vagrantc> nubae: what you need is more coffee!
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| 17:19 | take that edge off.
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| 17:19 | <Q-FUNK> the "show me the code" approach simply isn't a universal answer. it would be nice if some people understood that.
| |
| 17:20 | or, in that case, show me the tutorial
| |
| 17:20 | * vagrantc only has a borken spoon | |
| 17:20 | <vagrantc> people will have to find their own spoon if they want to be fed.
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| 17:21 | <sbalneav> vagrantc++
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| 17:21 | gentgeen__ has joined #ltsp | |
| 17:21 | <sbalneav> nubae: Yeah, I've had that a few times.
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| 17:22 | * sbalneav looks to see if ogra's gone | |
| 17:22 | <sbalneav> Pssst, hey, anyone here know anything about git and github?
| |
| 17:22 | I've got a problem.
| |
| 17:23 | <nubae> git sure
| |
| 17:23 | I just ran my git branch through bazaar... was super neato
| |
| 17:23 | <sbalneav> ok, so, I've got the sabayon stuff in git, 'cuz that's what upstream wants
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| 17:24 | <nubae> u know u can import it into launchpad right?
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| 17:24 | <sbalneav> So I'm doin' my git add's git commits and git pushes, right? Works fine
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| 17:24 | <nubae> i mean and then use bazaar
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| 17:24 | <sbalneav> But upstream wants to pull from me in git
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| 17:25 | anywho
| |
| 17:25 | so. On github, if I look at:
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| 17:25 | http://github.com/sbalneav/sabayon/tree/master
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| 17:25 | <nubae> y didnt u make a branch upstream?
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| 17:25 | <sbalneav> You'll see the latest "update"'s from last night
| |
| 17:25 | It's on the gnome servers
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| 17:26 | I'm not an official gnome developer yet.
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| 17:26 | <nubae> ah they dont wanna give u access
| |
| 17:26 | ?
| |
| 17:26 | ok
| |
| 17:26 | <sbalneav> But if you look at the COMMITS:
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| 17:26 | http://github.com/sbalneav/sabayon/commits/master
| |
| 17:26 | You can see later commits than last night.
| |
| 17:27 | So, here's my question. Did I break something?
| |
| 17:27 | <nubae> how are u pushing?
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| 17:27 | <sbalneav> git push
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| 17:27 | <nubae> and what does your config file look like?
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| 17:28 | .git/config
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| 17:28 | <sbalneav> errrm, where's the file? I'm just as stupid at git as I am at BZR
| |
| 17:28 | I'm an equal opportunity idiot
| |
| 17:28 | one sec
| |
| 17:28 | <nubae> in mainline
| |
| 17:29 | <ltsppbot> "sbalneav" pasted "Not sure who the git is: me or git" (9 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/501
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| 17:29 | <nubae> i usually push doing push origin master if i get problems
| |
| 17:29 | sometimes fixes things
| |
| 17:30 | <sbalneav> sbalneav@phobos:~/Devel/git/sabayon$ git push origin master
| |
| 17:30 | Everything up-to-date
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| 17:30 | sbalneav@phobos:~/Devel/git/sabayon$
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| 17:30 | I think I've borken the web site
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| 17:31 | I'm wondering if it's because I put ' 's in a commit message
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| 17:31 | http://github.com/sbalneav/sabayon/commit/e66f4e7679dae3ab69d2b920e4c9e3b8ba9eb8b4
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| 17:31 | since thats the commit message where it stopped working
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| 17:32 | <nubae> hmmm mine looks like: gitorious@git.sugarlabs.org:pyclic/mainline.git, pyclic being project, mainline being branch
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| 17:32 | well the commits are in the .git dir
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| 17:32 | y could try deleting the comment
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| 17:32 | and recommit
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| 17:34 | your config file looks funny though
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| 17:34 | u seem to have this missing... but maybe this is just mine:
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| 17:34 | [branch "master"]
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| 17:34 | remote = origin
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| 17:34 | merge = refs/heads/master
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| 17:34 | mikkel_ has quit IRC | |
| 17:35 | <sbalneav> Hm wierd
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| 17:36 | Well, I've got a support question in, we'll see what they say.
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| 17:36 | <nubae> u could do the following...
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| 17:37 | delete the local git, saving whatever files u modified today
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| 17:37 | then pull
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| 17:37 | then repush
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| 17:37 | I mean clone
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| 17:37 | then repush
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| 17:38 | <sbalneav> If I do a git clone NOW in a different directory, I'm getting everything.
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| 17:38 | And it's obviously seeing my commits: I can find them.
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| 17:39 | I think I've uncovered a web site bug.
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| 17:39 | I'm betting the comment with the ''s has buggered something up.
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| 17:39 | <nubae> looks like maybe the website didnt like your comments then
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| 17:39 | yeah
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| 17:39 | magic quotes is probably off, and their code doesnt deal with it
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| 17:40 | <sbalneav> right.
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| 17:40 | <nubae> if its php
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| 17:40 | <sbalneav> Trust me to break something. :)
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| 17:41 | I'm too literate. I use things like quotes and punctuation and full words.
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| 17:41 | <nubae> :-)
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| 17:41 | yeah they don't expect that these days
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| 17:41 | best use just acronyms to be on the safe side
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| 17:41 | <sbalneav> i shud lern 2 typ mr web 20
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| 17:42 | Anywho
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| 17:42 | <nubae> yys
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| 17:42 | btbs
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| 17:42 | :-)
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| 17:42 | <sbalneav> Labour day weekend here, my fellow brothers in this glorious workers paradise!
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| 17:43 | I'm off to the cottage to, err, not labour.
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| 17:43 | <nubae> shame that doesnt exist in Spain :-(
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| 17:43 | enjoy...
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| 17:43 | <sbalneav> I'm off. See you all Monday night.
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| 17:44 | I'm I get really frisky, I may make a tweet.
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| 17:44 | Although most of my cottage tweets tend to either involve food, or, um. Food.
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| 17:45 | So, sayonara!
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| 17:53 | <nubae> vagrantc: u around still?
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| 17:53 | sbalneav: have a good one
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| 17:53 | <vagrantc> nubae: pretty much
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| 17:54 | <nubae> can u look at something for me, tell me your opinion... been playing around with the moodle database extension
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| 17:54 | and what it can do
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| 17:54 | http://www.linux-for-education.org/mod/data/view.php?id=2747
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| 17:55 | I figured, building a little linux commands db would be helpful... in the moodle way
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| 17:55 | I just wanna know if it looks ok, and whether it'd be useful to newcomers to linux
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| 17:55 | the idea being... load each command with many usage examples
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| 17:56 | also... is the db itself obvious enough
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| 17:56 | could pretty much anyone add to it if they wanted to
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| 17:56 | ?
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| 17:56 | <vagrantc> the only part i don't get is the "similar to" stuff ...
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| 17:57 | <nubae> ah ok... and was it obvious tht u have to click on the actual term to get more info about it?
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| 17:57 | similar to = related commands
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| 17:57 | is that better wording?
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| 17:57 | <vagrantc> yeah, much better
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| 17:58 | similar would be appropriate for alternate implementations... related is a little more general.
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| 17:58 | <nubae> trying to make it easy as possible for real beginners
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| 17:58 | ok, changed to related
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| 17:58 | the moodle DB module just rocks...
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| 17:58 | <vagrantc> nubae: the link wasn't immediately obvious, but it didn't take too long to figure out
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| 17:58 | <nubae> I havent seen anything like it in any other CMS
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| 17:59 | how could I make it more obvious... write click for more info?
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| 17:59 | or, click to expand?
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| 17:59 | make it bigger letters?
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| 17:59 | <vagrantc> not sure
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| 18:01 | <nubae> ok, take a look now
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| 18:02 | wow, if that DB was filled it would be so cool... every entry autolinks to documents in the rest of the site
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| 18:02 | <vagrantc> looks better
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| 18:02 | <nubae> so if apt-get is mentioned in a tutorial, it gets autolinked
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| 18:02 | and would take them to the entry
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| 18:03 | could u also try and see if u can add an entry as a guest user.... what does it tell u when u try?
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| 18:03 | or dont u ge thtat option in the tabs?
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| 18:05 | I guess usage would be better changed to examples
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| 18:14 | maybe u could even get some freegeekers to expand it :p
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| 18:17 | you'll notice its conspicoulsy missing debian specific tutorials
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| 18:39 | <vagrantc> stgraber: Name Status Last Modified Last Commit
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| 18:39 | lp:~vagrantc/ltsp/ldm-ubuntu-packaging-fixes
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| 18:39 | bah
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| 18:39 | stgraber: just a couple minor fixes that bring debian and ubuntu closer in sync
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| 18:42 | stgraber: also proposed for merging via launchpad.
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| 19:13 | vagrantc has quit IRC | |
| 19:19 | * nubae just added a apt-get entry to the DB... wow that is a long one ;-) | |
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| 20:47 | <Ahmuck-Sr> aptitude please
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| 22:15 | <johnny> hmm.. that tyler guy should rebuild his chroot
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| 22:15 | if he comes back.. please suggest it
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| 22:16 | perhaps we need to have a script that will just spit back info from the system
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| 22:16 | reading /etc/debian-release /etc/lsb-release, /etc/redhat-release, etc
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| 22:16 | for the system and chroot
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| 22:16 | basic hardware, etc
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| 22:17 | nubae, what exactly are you upset about? i don't see anything incendiary in the chatroom itself?
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| 22:24 | <Ahmuck-Sr> johnny: u mean me ?
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| 22:24 | ! apt-get, but aptitude. aptitude is better
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| 22:25 | <johnny> huh
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| 22:25 | i've never once use aptitude
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| 22:25 | seriously..
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| 22:25 | 7 year apt-get user
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| 22:26 | commands i use are just apt-get , apt-cache, and apt-file
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| 22:26 | i wonder if aptitude existed when i started
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| 22:35 | <Ahmuck-Sr> it's a little safer iirc
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| 22:48 | <johnny> safer?
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| 22:49 | apt-get install seems pretty safe to me
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| 23:18 | <Ahmuck-Sr> johnny: http://pthree.org/2007/08/12/aptitude-vs-apt-get/
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| 23:21 | <johnny> so.. why is aptitude not the default interface :)
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| 23:21 | if it's so good :)
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| 23:21 | altho good to see about the problems that used to be solved
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| 23:21 | err weren't solved
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| 23:21 | like autoremove
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| 23:21 | i remember that being a problem waaay back
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| 23:22 | <Ahmuck-Sr> Learn aptitude. Use aptitude.
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| 23:24 | <alkisg> Ahmuck-Sr: don't let ogra hear you, he hates aptitude :)
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| 23:24 | goodmorning btw
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| 23:28 | <Ahmuck-Sr> yes, it's getting towards the start of morning
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| 23:28 | i'm getting sleepy though at 11:28 pm
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