IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 9 May 2013 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:08 | <ltspuser_16> Hi , I would like to as if this thin client servers supports different OS like windows and MAC ? :)
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| 02:08 | <jammcq> no
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| 02:08 | LTSP is for Linux servers
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| 02:08 | and it serves up an OS image for a thin client that is also based on Linux
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| 02:08 | but...
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| 02:09 | you can connect to windows servers from that thin client
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| 02:10 | <ltspuser_16> thank you for answering sir
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| 02:10 | I am just new to this ..
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| 02:10 | <jammcq> sure, no problem
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| 02:13 | <ltspuser_16> Sir, what do I exactly need, like first I will be installing an ubuntu server ? then install the LTSP there ? am I right ? then after that ? what's next sir ?
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| 02:14 | <jammcq> ummm
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| 02:14 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
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| 02:24 | <ltspuser_16> huhuh i'm confused :(
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| 02:26 | but anyways thanks for your support ..
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| 02:26 | for sure i'll be goin' back to this site ;)
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| 07:56 | <ogzy> i was searching for nx connection from thinclient, but i am confused. Is it possible to make a connection to a nx server using nx when the client logged in to the terminal server or should it be defined during th boot process of the thin client?
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| 09:13 | <DJUnreal> ogzy: why would you want to open an NX session from a client at all?
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| 09:13 | what are you trying to achieve?
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| 09:17 | <DJUnreal> if you let us know your end goal... hopefully we can help out a bit :)
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| 09:29 | <lifeboy> alkisg: Do you have a bit of time that we can try and got to the bottom of my Wheezy chroot on Ubuntu server problem?
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| 09:29 | alkisg: My last result was: I can't cut and paste from the client, but essentially it copied the file over correctly and it is the lts.conf that contains my settings
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| 09:43 | <DJUnreal> lifeboy: wheezy chroot under ubuntu?
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| 09:43 | that sounds to me like a recipe for disaster before you start
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| 09:56 | <ltspuser_28> hi .. Am I going to install dhcp ? inputting service dhcp3-server start says unrecognized .. what shall I do ?
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| 09:57 | <DJUnreal> ltspuser_28: dhcp3-server has been replaced with isc-dhcp-server
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| 09:57 | so assuming you've done a standard install of ltsp-server-standalone
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| 09:57 | you'll have isc-dhcp-server instead of dhcp3-server
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| 09:57 | <ltspuser_28> ahh
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| 09:58 | <DJUnreal> if you look in /etc/init.d
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| 09:58 | you should be able to see isc-dhcp-server or something similar
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| 09:58 | that'll confirm it
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| 09:58 | <ltspuser_28> ok.. i'll check it .
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| 09:58 | thanks :))
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| 09:59 | <DJUnreal> No Problem
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| 09:59 | did that sort it?
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| 09:59 | it still uses /etc/dhcpd.conf
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| 09:59 | uhh
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| 10:00 | i meant /etc/dhcpd/dhcp.conf or whatever the standard file is
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| 10:00 | and it still works the same
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| 10:00 | <ltspuser_28> waits .. using service dhcp start is unrecognized as well :(
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| 10:00 | <DJUnreal> ie you can "include /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf;" just the same
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| 10:00 | nono... you don't do service dhcp start
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| 10:00 | you do service isc-dhcp-server start
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| 10:02 | <ltspuser_28> so sorry .. i'm still a newbie :( heheheh
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| 10:02 | <DJUnreal> which reminds me (thanks for the reminder) that i need to do some research on dhcp stanzas
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| 10:03 | hehe, no need to be sorry
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| 10:03 | we all had to learn at one point or another
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| 10:03 | this is partly why i don't use the service command
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| 10:03 | <ltspuser_28> yeah .. i'm just curious, from where are you ? :)
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| 10:03 | <DJUnreal> and instead manually run /etc/init.d/isc<tab> stop/start/restart
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| 10:03 | as it autocompletes it for me nicely
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| 10:03 | * DJUnreal is in England | |
| 10:04 | <lifeboy> DJUnreal: I have hard that doesn't needs 'cmov' support, which Ubuntu has dropped since 10.10 so Alkisg suggested I built a wheezy chroot, copy it to (by tar'ing) to the Ubuntu server, run "ltsp-update-image -a i386" and boot the clients with that.
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| 10:04 | I have hardware...
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| 10:04 | Dang! I have hardware that needs 'cmov'...
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| 10:05 | * lifeboy thinks... eventually! | |
| 10:05 | * DJUnreal wonders... why not just install debian on the host server? | |
| 10:05 | <DJUnreal> probably a lot less painful in the long run
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| 10:06 | <ltspuser_28> wow .. amazing :) me, i'm from the philippines :)
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| 10:07 | <lifeboy> DJUnreal: I have gathered you're not an Ubuntu fan. ;-) Problem is the client has two sites (more coming), all running Ubuntu and notebooks too. Changing all that is a lot of work, when wheezy boots the clients fine. The only thing I can't figure out it why X doesn't start and connects to a server session...
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| 10:07 | * DJUnreal has no issue with ubuntu | |
| 10:07 | <DJUnreal> it's a perfectly valid OS
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| 10:08 | albeit a bastard love-child from debian that's somewhat mutated...
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| 10:08 | * lifeboy probably misread the growns he say here... | |
| 10:09 | <DJUnreal> my gut feeling looking at the situation
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| 10:09 | is that running multiple architectures is bad enough, but multiple OSs is worse for complexity... however, if it works...
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| 10:09 | <lifeboy> I hear you and if I had to do it from scratch, I might do it differently
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| 10:09 | <DJUnreal> but you're stuck with an existing environment, right?
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| 10:10 | <lifeboy> Yes, and I doubt that the client will pay to do it all over again.
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| 10:10 | * DJUnreal nods | |
| 10:10 | <DJUnreal> so the purpose of running wheezy at all is just to boot some clients with specific hardware requirements
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| 10:10 | <lifeboy> The alternative is that I return to running Ubuntu 10.04 and fix the NBD server manually... ?
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| 10:11 | I mean 10.04 as a chroot on 12.04 server
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| 10:14 | <ogzy> DJUnreal: trying to understand how a client make Nx connection to a NX server, seems it required reboot
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| 10:14 | <DJUnreal> ogzy: 2 mins and i'll focus on you next :)
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| 10:14 | lifeboy: did i summarise what you're trying to achieve correctly?
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| 10:15 | <ogzy> DJUnreal: ok
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| 10:15 | <alkisg> lifeboy: A 10.04 chroot cannot connect to a 12.04 server unless you modify the *server* to export nbd using port-style syntax. Sorry, I don't have much time to help you with the chroot issues currently.
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| 10:16 | And maybe you'll want vagrantc for that, he's using debian, I'm using ubuntu...
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| 10:17 | <lifeboy> DJUnreal: All the clients require that. We have deliberately used the same devices to be don't have build multiple chroots
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| 10:18 | alkisg: no problem, I think we're just brainstorming a bit on how to take this further
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| 10:18 | <alkisg> lifeboy: btw, I do have a wheezy chroot here connecting to my 12.04 server, and I didn't have to do any special configuration at all...
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| 10:20 | <lifeboy> alkisg: Which makes me think something else in my ltsp installed is damaged. I think I'll just clean it out and re-install it. It's not that hard and at least I'll know it's clean
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| 10:20 | <DJUnreal> lifeboy: what actually happens when you try to boot a client using the wheezy chroot?
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| 10:20 | or don't you get that far?
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| 10:21 | <lifeboy> It boots and drops me to a debian 7 login prompt
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| 10:21 | <DJUnreal> ogzy: question for you... what are you trying to achieve? ie why do you want your clients to run nx sessions at all?
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| 10:21 | <DJUnreal> lifeboy: in your lts.conf, turn on the syslog to master server option... that way you'll get some logging passed back to your LTSP host and we can try to work out what is/isn't happening
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| 10:22 | <ogzy> DJUnreal: it is a client requiest, want RDP and/or NX connection after the clients are opened
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| 10:22 | DJUnreal: seems this helps: http://bootpolish.net/pageloader.pl?page=home_howto_ltsp_ltsp5nxclient
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| 10:23 | <lifeboy> DJUnreal: Ok, will do that. The last thing I checked with alkisg was that tftp actually can read the lts.conf from the booted client, which was positive. It does look though as if the boot process does not read the lts.conf, which explains why the client never even tries to connect to the server
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| 10:23 | <ogzy> DJUnreal: by defining a SCREEN i can both log in to NX server and to terminal server?
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| 10:23 | <DJUnreal> in whcih case turning on syslog is pointless lol
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| 10:24 | <alkisg> ogzy: better use x2go instead of freenx
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| 10:24 | <ogzy> alkisg: as server?
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| 10:24 | <alkisg> lifeboy: the client should boot to ldm even without lts.conf
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| 10:24 | ogzy: both server and client
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| 10:24 | <ogzy> alkisg: ok will check it
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| 10:24 | <alkisg> freenx hasn't been updated since 2008
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| 10:24 | <DJUnreal> ogzy: it sounds a bit self-defeating to do that, but ok
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| 10:25 | <ogzy> DJUnreal: what is the suggested way then?
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| 10:25 | <lifeboy> alkisg: what tells the client to boot to ldm?
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| 10:25 | Is it in the chroot config?
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| 10:25 | <alkisg> lifeboy: /usr/share/init-ltsp.d/* has some scripts. One of them puts ldm as the default display manager in /etc/X11/default-display-manager
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| 10:25 | So then when X is started, ldm runs
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| 10:26 | There's also an ltsp-core initscript that launches sessions
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| 10:26 | <lifeboy> That's in the wheezy chroot, right?
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| 10:26 | <alkisg> I'm guessing that that one doesn't run for you, or encounters some problem
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| 10:26 | Yes, all those are in the wheezy chroot
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| 10:26 | With a root shell there, while the client was running, you could troubleshoot this
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| 10:26 | But sorry, no time to help more now
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| 10:27 | <DJUnreal> ogzy: i'm just trying to get my head around why anyone would want to do that
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| 10:27 | it's not necessarily a bad way to do it... i just don't understand why lol
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| 10:28 | <lifeboy> Ok, cool, alkisg: I can log into the running client so let me see what I can find...
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| 10:29 | <ogzy> DJUnreal: DJUnreal i don't either, the things i got till now, i can set the client so as to log in to RDP or NX servers directly without opening to treminal server, but also it is possible to se SCREEN_0N so that they can switch to that screen, did i understand right?
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| 10:29 | <DJUnreal> lifeboy: if you can get into the client... check your /var/log/messages too
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| 10:29 | <ogzy> alkisg: and x2go clients support freenx?
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| 10:30 | <alkisg> ogzy: wherever you see "freenx" in a site, think "x2go" instead. So, you won't have freenx at all anywhere in your setup.
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| 10:30 | !nx
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| 10:30 | <ltsp> nx: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WorkInProgress#NX or http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/FreeNX
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| 10:30 | <alkisg> Meh that's ancient, ignore it
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| 10:30 | !forget nx
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| 10:30 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 10:34 | <DJUnreal> so basically ogzy: you have an awkward user who wants to do silly things... sounds like a typical sysadmin's thing to deal with
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| 10:39 | i'm assuming you've installed the NX client on your server
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| 10:43 | <ogzy> DJUnreal: not yet, thinking about the solution. They want to connect to server via NX
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| 10:45 | <alkisg> ogzy: if you tell us more, we might be able to help more
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| 10:45 | E.g. why nx instead of the usual ltsp's remote X?
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| 10:45 | Do you have a low bandwidth network? Or do you want suspend/resume session support?
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| 10:46 | Otherwise, remote X is much faster than nx, in LANs...
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| 10:48 | <ogzy> alkisg: here their requirememtns: there should be a server that supports NX for the ckient connection using NX technologies 2) after the clients are opened, it should be possible to choose RDP or NX connection type with servers (this part is the one i am trying to figure out)
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| 10:49 | alkisg: they want also to distribue BIOS settings from the server so thet clients may update automatically
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| 10:49 | <DJUnreal> you'll need an NX client on your server
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| 10:49 | otherwise they can't open NX
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| 10:49 | <alkisg> ogzy: it sounds like they don't know what they want
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| 10:49 | <DJUnreal> distribute bios settings?
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| 10:49 | that's getting into the realms of enterprise class server management
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| 10:50 | <alkisg> An ltsp server can be an nx server too. LTSP clients will use remote X to connect to it, and windows or remote clients will use NX
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| 10:50 | <DJUnreal> and the only way to do that is with something like IBM's ASU64 utility for IBM's systems
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| 10:50 | <alkisg> And that's as easy as `apt-get install x2goserver`
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| 10:50 | * DJUnreal concurs with alkisg though... the users don't know what they want (and probably why they want it either) | |
| 10:51 | <DJUnreal> reading what you said there
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| 10:52 | 2) after the clients are opened, it should be possible to choose RDP or NX connection type with servers
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| 10:52 | it makes me think they want to choose between a new session on the server
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| 10:52 | <ogzy> DJUnreal: most probably
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| 10:52 | <DJUnreal> and reconnecting to an existing display that someone else is using
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| 10:53 | <ogzy> DJUnreal: i will search for possibilities before asking the client
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| 10:53 | <alkisg> Anyway, the short answer is that ltsp clients can connect to nx/rdp/ltsp servers, so their requirements are met
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| 10:53 | Just remember that ltsp is about netbooting, the rest (nx/rdp/remote x) can be done without ltsp as well
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| 10:54 | <ogzy> alkisg: i get that, i am athe point of whether a LTSP client want to connet to NX server, what should it be done. The simple answer is install nxclient?
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| 10:54 | <alkisg> x2goclient
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| 10:54 | <ogzy> alkisg: and its server as well
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| 10:54 | <alkisg> yup, x2goserver in the server side
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| 10:55 | <ogzy> alkisg: and do i need to make some chroot settings at the LTSP server side? most probably yes, any example about it?
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| 10:56 | <alkisg> ogzy: it depends on if you want the clients to have only an nx session, or if you want them to login to ltsp (ldm) first, and then run x2goclient from the menu
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| 10:56 | <ogzy> alkisg: second one most probably
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| 10:56 | <alkisg> Then you just install x2goclient on the server
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| 10:56 | No configuration needed, just an `apt-get install` away
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| 10:57 | <ogzy> alkisg: and the clients will run it to connect via nx?
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| 10:57 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 10:57 | <ogzy> alkisg: and for only nx session part?
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| 10:58 | alkisg: need some script handling under screen.d/?
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| 10:58 | <alkisg> More difficult, you'd want a screen-script then , or to use the x2go thin client package
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| 10:58 | There's already a screen script for rdp, but not for x2go
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| 10:58 | It would be welcomed upstream, if written...
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| 11:00 | * DJUnreal grins | |
| 11:05 | <ogzy> alkisg: ok got the point
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| 11:54 | <DJUnreal> ooh!
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| 11:54 | * DJUnreal thinks life is about to become a whole lot more simple | |
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| 13:25 | * DJUnreal stretches | |
| 13:34 | <cyberorg> ogzy, don't need any special screen-script to run x2go http://lizards.opensuse.org/2012/09/27/run-x2go-thin-client-using-kiwi-ltsp/
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| 13:35 | you can use similar approach to whichever chroot you are using instead of suse
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| 13:37 | <ogzy> cyberorg: i am planning to use ubuntu ltsp
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| 13:38 | <cyberorg> ogzy, lts.conf part will remain same whichever distro you use
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| 13:39 | <ogzy> cyberorg: the explanation is for SCREEN_07, that is bot remote X and x2go will be connected, right?
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| 13:39 | bot = both
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| 13:40 | <cyberorg> it just launches x2go client on screen 7, you can connect to any x2go server from there
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| 13:41 | <ogzy> cyberorg: screen 7 is the one that we switch via ctrl + alt + 7?
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| 13:41 | <cyberorg> yes tty7, it is not remote X, it is running on the client from where you connect to x2go server that will get X session from the server to client
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| 13:42 | <ogzy> cyberorg: so i will have remote X session at tty1 and x2go session at tty7
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| 13:42 | cyberorg: the problem is whether i just need x2go at tty1
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| 13:43 | <cyberorg> you can put it wherever you want, in example it uses screen 7
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| 13:44 | <ogzy> cyberorg: so if i say tty1 no remote X will be opened but x2go is used instead of default ltsp X handling?
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| 13:45 | cyberorg: the thing is whether the clients use just nx to connect to terminal server changing things for SCREEN_01 will be ok?
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| 13:46 | <cyberorg> x2go is not nx, yes if they just use x2go then you can just run x2goclient on any screen
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| 13:47 | <ogzy> cyberorg: i my clients connect via NX
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| 13:48 | <cyberorg> you can probably launch nxclient in kiosk mode then
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| 13:49 | <ogzy> cyberorg: thats what i found on Internet but x2go confuses me, alkisg said the new thing is x2go
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| 13:50 | <cyberorg> ogzy, yes, it is nx replacement
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| 13:50 | <ogzy> cyberorg: i need my clients able to connect to NX servers also, so what should i use at a screen x2goclient or nxclient?
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| 13:52 | <cyberorg> nx and x2go servers both? not sure x2go client connect with nx server, maybe install both of them and run them in kiosk mode on 2 different screens if it does not
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| 13:59 | <ogzy> cyberorg: http://googlefodder.blogspot.com/2012/09/nomachine-nx-freenx-neatx-which-should.html better to use x2go with its server and client
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| 14:03 | <DJUnreal> or alternatively, tell your users that they're idiots and that they'll put up with the system the way you build it and stop moaning :)
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| 14:38 | <anivair> morning! Anyone want to help me address some display issues? I know, graphics is everyone's favorite!
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| 14:42 | <Hyperbyte> !anyone
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| 14:42 | <ltsp> anyone: Don't ask questions that start with "has anyone ..." or "can anyone ...". Answering these questions often require global telepathy, and we don't posess that. Why don't you ask the next question, the real one, instead?
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| 14:42 | <anivair> Fair enough.
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| 14:44 | New LTSP server. I've got a combination of the older red thin clients (diskless workstations) and the newer current models. The red models are showing me distorted displays (stretched out at a series of repeating 45 degree angles). I was hoping it was a VGA connection problem, but alas, a new thin client using a VGA connection doesn't have the same issue.
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| 14:44 | all the newer boxes are fine, but the older ones give me a garbage display
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| 14:45 | <||cw> anivair: often that's a video mode issue. have you tried different resolutions, or adding modelines for your monitors?
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| 14:46 | <anivair> I have not. To be honest, I just got the server booting yesterday, so I haven't tried anything yet. Today is my day set aside to fix it.
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| 14:47 | it's been a long time since I set up a server. I'm not even sure were to set that up anymore
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| 14:51 | <DJUnreal> could also be a driver/module issue
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| 14:52 | i know for a fact that i need to configure stuff for my clients to get them using modules their graphics cards like
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| 14:52 | <anivair> I was thinking it might, since they're older and my graphics card and server are brand new
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| 14:52 | DJUnreal: where did you configure that? I'll start playing with it
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| 14:54 | <DJUnreal> i /think/ it's going to need to be configured in lts.conf
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| 14:54 | <alkisg> !learn vga as to see which VGA driver an ltsp client use, run this either on a !localxterm or on !screen_02=shell: lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA
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| 14:54 | <ltsp> Error: "grep" is not a valid command.
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| 14:54 | <DJUnreal> but i've not got that far yet
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| 14:54 | <alkisg> !learn `vga as to see which VGA driver an ltsp client use, run this either on a !localxterm or on !screen_02=shell: lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA`
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| 14:54 | <ltsp> (learn [<channel>] <key> as <value>) -- Associates <key> with <value>. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. The word 'as' is necessary to separate the key from the value. It can be changed to another word via the learnSeparator registry value.
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| 14:54 | <alkisg> !learn vga as `to see which VGA driver an ltsp client use, run this either on a !localxterm or on !screen_02=shell: lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA`
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| 14:54 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 14:54 | <alkisg> !vga
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| 14:54 | <ltsp> vga: (#1) to see which VGA driver an ltsp client use, run this either on a !localxterm or on !screen_02=shell: lspci -nn -k, or (#2) to see which VGA driver an ltsp client use, run this either on a !localxterm or on !screen_02=shell: lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA
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| 14:55 | <alkisg> !forget vga #1
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| 14:55 | <ltsp> Error: There is no such factoid.
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| 14:55 | <alkisg> !forget vga 1
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| 14:55 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 14:55 | <alkisg> !vga
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| 14:55 | <ltsp> vga: to see which VGA driver an ltsp client use, run this either on a !localxterm or on !screen_02=shell: lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA
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| 14:58 | <anivair> I'll give that a shot on the thin client. .... how do I log into the command line of those again? it's asking for a login and password.
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| 14:58 | <DJUnreal> presumably you'll need to set up a user in your ltsp chroot that has a password
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| 14:59 | <alkisg> !screen_02
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| 14:59 | <ltsp> screen_02: To get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using_a_shell_SCREEN
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| 15:04 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, there is one less Windows computer in the world. :)
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| 15:07 | <DJUnreal> and one more technician
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| 15:08 | <anivair> bak. The box that's working is using an Intel driver: 945GSE Express. i915 kernel.
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| 15:09 | the box that's not working is using a VIA driver. CN700/PYM800. viafb kernel
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| 15:09 | <DJUnreal> that's good
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| 15:09 | oh
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| 15:09 | not so good
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| 15:09 | via drivers (and via onboard embedded video cards) are sh!te
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| 15:09 | <anivair> heh
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| 15:09 | yeah
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| 15:09 | <DJUnreal> therein lies your first problem
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| 15:10 | <anivair> No argument
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| 15:10 | <DJUnreal> best find a kernel module for via video that doesn't suck
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| 15:10 | <anivair> I'm not sure management will like it if my best suggestion is "let's scrap all these old boxes", though it's not impossible
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| 15:11 | where do I put this module? On the thin client somehow, or on my server?
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| 15:11 | <DJUnreal> tell 'em they're unsupported antiquated hardware that's terribly inefficient and will detract from the user experience and therefore decrease morale, with the knock-on effect of decreasing productivity and increasing complaints... (or some such other business-case-related bullsh!t)
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| 15:11 | in your chroot image
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| 15:12 | the one being handed out to the client
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| 15:12 | <anivair> Got it
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| 15:12 | (that might work .... I think I'll go see how many of these we have in use first .... no sense in going out of my way for three clients)
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| 15:12 | <DJUnreal> did i mention i'm good at finding excuses to get rid of old crap?
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| 15:13 | <anivair> Good deal, man.
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| 15:17 | <alkisg> anivair: which kernel and graphics stack are you using? 12.04.2? Or e.g. 12.04.1?
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| 15:18 | Try also with XSERVER=vesa for those clients
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| 15:21 | <anivair> 12.04.2
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| 15:22 | <alkisg> anivair: dpkg -l xserver-xorg xserver-xorg-lts-quantal|grep ^ii
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| 15:22 | (server)
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| 15:22 | (chroot)
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| 15:23 | If that tells you "lts-quantal", then you could try downgrading the chroot to 12.04.1, the drivers there are a bit different
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| 15:23 | But do try with XSERVER=vesa in lts.conf first...
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| 15:24 | <anivair> trying
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| 15:24 | (and it IS lts-quantal
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| 15:29 | <anivair> yeah, the vesa option in there actually diasabled BOTH clients. The reds now give me a diagonal stretch in the opposite direction, and the new boxes won't load.
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| 15:29 | So i guess that's not optimal for me
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| 15:30 | <alkisg> You can specify XSERVER=vesa based on client mac, so that it only affects the old clients, but if it doesn't work...
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| 15:31 | <anivair> yeah ... nobody's on th is server, so I just threw the switch, but no. it has AN effect, but not the desired one
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| 15:31 | <alkisg> So you'd need to try different kernels + xorg servers now, in order to find some that works on those, if you care enough for them...
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| 15:31 | <anivair> I may just sit on the new server till I can replace the 5 red clients we need
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| 15:32 | better off getting new hardware than having to deal with it breaking every time my kernel updates
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| 15:32 | but thanks for the support, as usual.
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| 15:32 | At least I now have an excuse to get rid of the old boxes
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| 15:45 | <DJUnreal> ooh
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| 15:45 | yet again awesome service from Madcatz
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| 15:45 | * DJUnreal knew there were many reasons he loves this company | |
| 15:45 | <dawydiuk> How do you guys handle email accounts. That is to configure thunderbird it wants to know the person's email address, name… Before I can even setup the server stuff(Imap, hostname..)
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| 15:47 | I should say I'm not using a persistent home currently. It's setup to autologin all clients as the same user, as all computers should be identical.
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| 15:49 | <dawydiuk> is everyone leaving this up to their users to use web based email?
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| 15:50 | * DJUnreal doesn't allow his users to have e-mail | |
| 15:50 | <DJUnreal> simple solution
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| 15:56 | <||cw> dawydiuk: I'm not sure how you mean "Before I can even setup the server stuff"... that's normally a separate system, that you'd setup first
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| 16:00 | * alkisg also notes that using the same user account in all clients is asking for trouble... many DEs and programs can't cope with that | |
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| 16:04 | <Galaxy283> Hey guys, I'm doing a revision for my exams. There's this question that has popped up and I would like a few pointers on how to answer it. ""Network protocols are intrinsically related to operating systems". Critically appraise this statement in relation to the LTSP project." Any help would be appreciated!
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| 16:05 | * DJUnreal points at alkisg there as the local LTSP representitive | |
| 16:10 | <||cw> I don't know the context of that assertion, but out of context like that, I'd fully disagree with it
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| 16:11 | network protocols are not related to operating systems at all, in any way.
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| 16:11 | that's the whole point of a "protocol", it's way for unrelated things to communicate
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| 16:12 | <Galaxy283> Hmm "intrinsically", let me look up the definition of this.
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| 16:12 | <jammcq> network protocols are independent of the operation systems
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| 16:12 | <||cw> including OS's and embed systems that are so simple that they aren't really an OS.
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| 16:12 | <jammcq> s/operation/operating
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| 16:13 | <Galaxy283> essential part of whole.
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| 16:13 | <||cw> is the http and telnet and ftp support on a wiznet device an OS?
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| 16:13 | or, taken another way, is the tcp stack an intrinsic part of the OS? or is it add-on software?
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| 16:14 | since you can build a linux kernel with no networking support, I'n say it's an add-on
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| 16:14 | <jammcq> hmm
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| 16:14 | not sure i'd agree with that
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| 16:14 | the networking protocols are implemented within the operating systems
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| 16:14 | <Galaxy283> Wow I've started up a debate.
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| 16:14 | <||cw> DOS's network support is an add on, by design.
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| 16:15 | <jammcq> sure you can disable/enable it, but it's still implemented by the kernel
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| 16:15 | <||cw> Galaxy283: yeay! \o/
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| 16:15 | <Galaxy283> Haha!
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| 16:15 | * DJUnreal sits back with popcorn | |
| 16:15 | <jammcq> just like memory management, filesystems, process management
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| 16:15 | <alkisg> OS > kernel too
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| 16:15 | <||cw> jammcq: but it can be completely removed from the kernel and implemented separate in user too
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| 16:16 | <jammcq> yeah, but it's not typically done that way
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| 16:16 | <||cw> such as, ppp over slip serial
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| 16:16 | but that makes it "not intrinsic"
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| 16:16 | <jammcq> well... depends on the definition of 'intrinsic'
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| 16:16 | <||cw> "essential part of whole"
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| 16:16 | <Galaxy283> The word intrinsic is throwing me as well.
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| 16:16 | <dawydiuk> ||cw: whats DEs?
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| 16:17 | <||cw> dawydiuk: desktop environment
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| 16:17 | <jammcq> and how do you appraise that in relation to the LTSP project?
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| 16:17 | <Galaxy283> it's also defined as "belonging naturally."
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| 16:17 | <||cw> now, network support for ltsp is intrinsic.
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| 16:18 | but that's not "the OS"
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| 16:18 | <DJUnreal> in short dude... it's a crappy question and far too vague to be sensibly answered
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| 16:18 | tell the exam board to go and get stuffed :)
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| 16:19 | <Galaxy283> Aren't all University exam questions like that? This is not the first question that I've got a bit stumped with.
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| 16:19 | <DJUnreal> you could put a rant in about their use of the word intrinsic and how daft they are, but i doubt it'd give you many marks ;)
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| 16:20 | <Galaxy283> I have caused a bit of bantering in networking on a different question haha!
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| 16:20 | DJUnreal, haha I would love to get marks for ranting at them.
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| 16:21 | * DJUnreal grins | |
| 16:21 | <DJUnreal> and on that note
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| 16:21 | i'm gonna skidaddle for the weekend
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| 16:21 | ciao folks
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| 16:21 | <Galaxy283> Bye!
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| 16:22 | <Galaxy283> jammcq, where should I start if I were to answer this?
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| 16:31 | <Galaxy283> I'm re-reading everything that has been said and I'm stumped to how to start haha!
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| 16:51 | <||cw> Galaxy283: since it says "Critically appraise", I might say something about it's not intrinsic to an OS, but then how it is for the LTSP application layers
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| 16:51 | bah, took too long
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| 17:52 | <unkmar> using a local drive swap partition as swap space. This to be a endevour in my near future.
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| 17:53 | <vagrantc> be careful about booting laptops on such a network that has suspend to disk
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| 17:53 | it will wipe out the suspended state
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| 17:57 | <unkmar> vagrantc: Thanks for the warning. I be sure that suspend to disk is disabled for all the local boots. They aren't likely to boot local again. Better safe than sorry. :)
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| 17:57 | s/I/I'll/
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| 21:00 | <Enslaver> howdy all
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| 22:34 | * Hyperbyte yawns | |
| 23:02 | <muppis> Insomnia?
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