IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 14 February 2009 (all times are UTC)
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| 03:36 | <DarKnesS_WolF> i have a question, now let us say i do have some server which running a LTSP over ubuntu . and i have lots of other diskless or with disk to connect to this ltsp, in this case all the procissing will be done on the server side. what if i want each machine that connects to the ltsp over PXE boot to run the prossising on it is own CPU ... do u think this is can be done ? like a fat-client using ltsp ?
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| 03:43 | <nubae2> yes DarKnesS_WolF
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| 03:43 | it quite a common practice these days:
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| 03:43 | !fatclient
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| 03:43 | <ltspbot> nubae2: Error: "fatclient" is not a valid command.
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| 03:44 | <nubae2> hmmm... second...
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| 03:44 | @g search nubae.com/fatclient
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| 03:44 | <ltsplogbot> 582 Results | Re: Using nubae fatclient [was Re: whi @ http://www.mail-archive.com/edubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com/msg04981.html | Re: Using nubae fatclient [was Re: whi @ http://www.mail-archive.com/edubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com/msg04978.html | running nubae's fatclient in a lab...: @ http://osdir.com/ml/edubuntu-users/2009-02/msg00019.html | Nabble - edubuntu-users - running nubae @
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| 03:44 | http://www.nabble.com/running-nubae's-fatclient-in-a-lab...-td21825947.html
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| 03:44 | <nubae2> /nick nubae
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| 03:44 | duh
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| 03:50 | anyway try out the plugin, works quite well
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| 03:58 | <DarKnesS_WolF> nubae2: so the ltsp has the fatclient plugin ?
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| 03:59 | nubae2: but that will used normaly with ltsp ?
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| 04:16 | nubae2: nice work !.. what i did not understand u wrote " Download here " and it is a shell script but i don't udnerstand what this script doing ? building the LTSP-FatClient Image ?
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| 04:26 | <nubae2> correct
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| 04:26 | DarKnesS_WolF: How much do u understand of the concept of thin clients?
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| 04:26 | try and describe it to me
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| 04:42 | <DarKnesS_WolF> nubae2: sorry bad connection what i understand about thin clients that u do have one powerfull machine and many diskless machines
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| 04:42 | on the powerful machine u run terminal server and the diskless nodes just connects via pxeboot and fetch the image
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| 04:43 | but all the running prociess and memory are grabed from the powerful machine resources not from the thin client.
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| 04:44 | so if u have a P III machine and a server whiche is Xeon acting like TS , then the PIII takes the power from the Xeon.. the running OS / the memory the prossors and everything ..
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| 04:44 | nubae2: is that correct ?
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| 04:50 | <knipwim> any gentoo people around?
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| 04:51 | what's the way to go for the ltsp installation
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| 04:51 | follow the dberkholz setup at http://dev.gentoo.org/~dberkholz/ltsp/setup.txt?
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| 04:52 | or install ltsp-server from git and do ltsp-build-client?
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| 04:53 | <nubae2> DarKnesS_WolF: exactly
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| 04:53 | sorry was on phone
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| 04:53 | <DarKnesS_WolF> nubae2: okay perfect now the fat-client should be same concept
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| 04:53 | but
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| 04:54 | the proccising and the memroy and so on will be done on the client not on the server
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| 04:54 | right ?
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| 04:54 | <nubae2> so what fatclient does is build a whole fat nbd image for you and distribute it to your more powerful machines
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| 04:54 | yes
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| 04:54 | <DarKnesS_WolF> in this case all i need the powerful server for is just the dhcp tftp server and the image right ?
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| 04:55 | <nubae2> so things like centralised management of apps and users are still on the server
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| 04:55 | <DarKnesS_WolF> yes that what i am looking for ..
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| 04:55 | i'll have lap like 20 pcs
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| 04:55 | i dont' want to apt-get blabla on 20 ;-)
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| 04:55 | <nubae2> but the clients use their own ram and power mostly so that u can run flash, bandwidth intensive stuff blender
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| 04:55 | etc
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| 04:55 | <DarKnesS_WolF> perfect
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| 04:55 | ok i didn't get this plugin :)
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| 04:56 | <nubae2> yeah u dont need much for a server really... except remember it still has to build the image
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| 04:56 | so the better the machine, the faster the image is built
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| 04:56 | <DarKnesS_WolF> i did read ur howto it is like installing any ltsp but u do just add -fatclient applications .. so what the download here shell script is for ?
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| 04:56 | <nubae2> it creates the entire fat environment
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| 04:56 | <DarKnesS_WolF> nubae2: ok the server actually is a monster machine ;-) and the clients even are xeon machines acctually but i want the centrlized mangment .
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| 04:57 | okay will use it on 64bit image
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| 04:57 | <nubae2> so.... enables sound, printer, local apps of choice,
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| 04:57 | <DarKnesS_WolF> because right now i already have ltsp running the classic way .
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| 04:57 | <nubae2> users etc
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| 04:57 | etc
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| 04:57 | <DarKnesS_WolF> nubae2: ok i have another idea but not sure if i can do it..
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| 04:58 | <nubae2> well, I advise it.... Sameer Verma in San Francisco is currently running it in a production lab for 32 clients and qutie happy
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| 04:58 | and I believe in SA they are running in many schools too
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| 04:58 | <DarKnesS_WolF> or it can be done. i was thinking of having like one server running virual images of many OS like XEN / openvz / vmware any solution like that .
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| 04:58 | <nubae2> I have tested extensively on intrepid.... but someone recently sent me a fix for hardy too, so think it will work there also
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| 04:59 | <DarKnesS_WolF> and then the clients will run a very minimal OS whihc can grap any image of the server and runn it local .
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| 04:59 | <nubae2> right
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| 04:59 | so vm per app or what?
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| 04:59 | why the vm I mean to ask really
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| 04:59 | <DarKnesS_WolF> not like that may be for OS like i'll have ubuntu / suse / windows anything i wanna test.
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| 05:00 | <nubae2> ahah, yes
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| 05:00 | well that can be done 2 ways
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| 05:00 | virtual players locally on the fatclients
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| 05:00 | <DarKnesS_WolF> nubae2: i wished i was able to do it via PXE boot but not sure how yet.
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| 05:00 | <nubae2> or other connections like rdp or whatever
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| 05:00 | <DarKnesS_WolF> okay that is a one which is common i think...
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| 05:01 | yes but in both cases u need actually an OS running :)
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| 05:02 | i am thinking of libvirt on a minimal debian or something
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| 05:02 | very powerful tool seems to be.
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| 05:02 | but no vmware support it do qemu / xen / kvm / openvz even
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| 05:04 | <nubae2> hmmm...
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| 05:04 | libvirt running where now?
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| 05:04 | well... u need just One OS image running
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| 05:05 | it could be put into a shared nfs folder
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| 05:05 | fat or thin, the idea there is the same really
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| 05:06 | <DarKnesS_WolF> yes libvirt will be running on a minimal debian or something
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| 05:06 | and via it connects to the xen server or so
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| 05:06 | <nubae2> if u can get it to work nice... I have had problems with it recently
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| 05:06 | well it can do xen or qemu
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| 05:07 | <DarKnesS_WolF> openVZ by the way sounds very great
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| 05:07 | even my VPS using it
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| 05:07 | <nubae2> I do not know it
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| 05:08 | <DarKnesS_WolF> it is OS virluziation level like a countainer
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| 05:08 | brb reboots for xen kernel be back i nfew
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| 05:08 | <nubae2> I've used virtualbox, kvm, and vmware, but not this one
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| 05:23 | <alkisg> DarKnesS_WolF: it seems to me that you don't want ltsp at all, just plain AoE... :)
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| 05:23 | <nubae2> AoE? wassat?
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| 05:23 | greetings btw
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| 05:23 | <alkisg> Ata Over Ethernet... we have this in ltsp too :)
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| 05:23 | Greetings!
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| 05:24 | <nubae2> stilll unsure what ata over ethernet uis
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| 05:24 | is
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| 05:24 | <alkisg> A remote hard disk, served by the server
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| 05:25 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATA_over_Ethernet
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| 05:25 | So he could have 1 disk for linux, 1 for windows, 1 for whatever...
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| 05:25 | ...and server them to the clients
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| 05:57 | <sepski> if one is using ATA across ethernet why not just use iscsi ?
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| 06:22 | <DarKnesS_WolF> nubae2: sorry took so long.. thx for the advice will test ur plugin tomorrow at work :) should i say which application included in the fat image ? or if i did not say anything it will generate pretty much all teh installed applications ?
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| 06:43 | <nubae2> look in the script
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| 06:43 | there is a list of packages
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| 06:43 | which u can adapt
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| 06:43 | by using the flag --highfat u install a pretty full desktop (about 1 gig of stuff)
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| 06:44 | alkisg: whats the advantage of ATA over doing virtual images then?
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| 06:45 | <alkisg> The advantage is that you can e.g. boot native Windows. No remote X, no rdp, just remote disk.
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| 07:13 | <nubae2> oh ok
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| 07:14 | what would cause my firefox page to refresh really really slow
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| 07:15 | Im using proprietary ati drivers
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| 11:26 | <schregge> hi
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| 11:27 | <schregge> i am running an amd64 system with i386 clients. i want to install additionial packages for the thinclients. how do i specify the architecture in the chroot environment
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| 11:27 | ?
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| 11:50 | <johnny> schregge, exactly what packages are you referring to?
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| 11:52 | <schregge> iperf, sane...
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| 11:52 | but i thin i have it. setarch i386 chroot.....
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| 13:47 | <phytax> Hi! Has anybody experience with wine in an LTSP environment? Setting up applications for a lot of users?
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| 13:47 | <ball> phytax: sounds like something that would want a powerful machine.
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| 13:48 | <phytax> ball:its a hp proliant with 16 GB ram and 2 x xeon quad core
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| 13:52 | <Ahmuck> phytax: it can be done, yes
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| 13:52 | there are peeps that do it and have done it. if you get it figured out by asking etc, please write a doc on it
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| 13:54 | <ball> phytax: sounds appropriate.
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| 13:54 | <phytax> Here i am asking ;-)
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| 13:55 | The installation will serv 26 clients in a school
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| 13:55 | <alkisg> phytax: what kind of application? Can it run on windows without installation (as a portable app)?
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| 13:55 | <phytax> No, sorry. The most wanted app is Delphi3 IDE
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| 13:57 | <alkisg> ...and I suppose you don't want to have multiple installations, one for each user, eh?
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| 13:57 | <phytax> It works for a single user. But installing for 900+ users is not ok
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| 13:58 | <alkisg> Then you'll probably have to do something with permissions, to make all of them use the same "drive_c" in wine
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| 14:01 | <phytax> alkisg:Yes, that's my approach, too. I hoped i would find somebody here who has done it before.
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| 14:02 | <alkisg> phytax: I've done it but only for applications requiring no installation - I've even made .debs out of them
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| 14:04 | <alkisg> phytax: the best way would be to install in one user, and then put a unionfs on top of it for other users - but someone has to do it and write a good tutorial first :)
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| 14:06 | <phytax> alkisg: sounds interesting.
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| 14:11 | <nubae2> stupid xorg.... my fglrx driver suddenly stopped working since yesterday
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| 14:11 | <alkisg> phytax: just wondering, any specific reason for not using Lazarus instead of delphi 3?
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| 14:11 | <nubae2> so I guess ATI is a bad choice now too... since there are no open source drivers for my card
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| 14:12 | and in the mean time I'm running in VESA
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| 14:12 | hi alkisg :-)
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| 14:12 | <alkisg> Heeeellloooooo nubae2... throw it away and buy an intel one :)
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| 14:13 | * nubae2 always comes in with a routine bitching about something, and then a greeting | |
| 14:13 | <nubae2> heh
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| 14:13 | /nick Nubae
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| 14:13 | <ball> I've got one box where I can't seem to run an Xserver, period.
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| 14:14 | <nubae2> thats quite dumb... one can t do /server commands directly in the haze part of empathy
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| 14:15 | guess I'll foi file a bug report
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| 14:15 | <phytax> alkisg : The teachers are new to linux and they need time for acclimatization
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| 14:15 | <nubae2> if only the sayying a bug report a day keeps the technician away were true :p
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| 14:16 | hmmm but that does make for an interesting email tag line
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| 14:16 | <alkisg> phytax: I think it'll be a bigger problem for them running delphi under wine, along with the applications they develop. Anyway, their call...
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| 14:16 | <nubae2> well, delphi has kilix running under it
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| 14:16 | <alkisg> In wine? nah...
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| 14:16 | <nubae2> but Ive had delphi apps running under crossover before
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| 14:17 | no of course not, natively... killix = delphi
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| 14:17 | <alkisg> Kylix is a linux version of delphi, but it was made really long ago, I doubt it would be easier to install now than the wine-based version
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| 14:18 | <phytax> yes, but kylix does not install under x86_64 ...
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| 14:18 | <alkisg> (Delphi was my main programming environment for the last dozen years)
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| 14:19 | <phytax> alkisg: and what is your opinion about lazarus?
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| 14:19 | <nubae2> alkisg: funny, my lead dev in my first software company too
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| 14:19 | we wrote a pretty elaborate real estate piece of software called q property
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| 14:19 | wonder if its still floating around some place
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| 14:19 | <alkisg> phytax: if it runs on gtk2 now (I haven't look at their latest progress) it'll be easier for the teachers than using delphi 3.
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| 14:20 | <nubae2> using delphi though, is a little like using a glow worm for light
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| 14:20 | a very ancient and traditional approach to problem with more modern solutions :-)
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| 14:21 | <alkisg> Delphi and Pascal is really nice... a shame that it doesn't have a big community or big companies behind it
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| 14:21 | <phytax> hehe, ok. But in this school the teachers use it.
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| 14:22 | <ball> I miss Pascal a lot.
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| 14:23 | <nubae2> pascal is more like using a 80s style mobile phone to ring from the ocean :p
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| 14:24 | <phytax> It seems to be a good way to teach children programming, anyway
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| 14:25 | <ball> Logo's a good way to teach children programming.
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| 14:25 | <alkisg> Logo sucks. Scratch is a lot better
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| 14:25 | The logo syntax is a mess
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| 14:25 | <ball> Pascal's a good way to write maintainable code.
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| 14:29 | <phytax> alkisg: thank you for your time. I will think about unionfs and wine. bye
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| 14:29 | <alkisg> bye... there are some tutorials on the net using different approaches, google is your friend. :)
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| 14:32 | <knipwim> any gentoo people around?
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| 18:26 | <nothingman> does anyone have a link to information on nbd usage?
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| 18:26 | I have trouble having multiple users on one server
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| 18:27 | ugh, slow brain today
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| 18:28 | nbd bandwidth usage, I mean
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| 18:34 | <vagrantc> you could use iptraf and look for traffic on port 2000 (the default used with NBD on ubuntu and debian)
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| 18:34 | <stgraber> nothingman: My biggest server currently has 3500 connections on it and works well
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| 18:35 | <nothingman> scott: specs?
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| 18:36 | <stgraber> 2xXeon 3.2Ghz, gigabit link and 3GB of RAM
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| 18:37 | but that's because it's the smallest configuration I could find available as blade for that customer :)
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| 18:37 | <nothingman> and for clients?
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| 18:37 | <stgraber> clients are mainly Wyse thin clients (via based) and some webdt (geode based with 90MB of ram ...(
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| 18:44 | <nothingman> hm, I have an older 100Mb hub and 256MB laptops acting as clients to a 2GHz laptop with 1GB
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| 18:44 | any suggestions what my bottleneck might be?
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| 18:48 | <vagrantc> nothingman: a hub or a switch?
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| 18:48 | <nothingman> oh, a hub I think
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| 18:48 | yeah
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| 18:49 | <vagrantc> nothingman: you could try connecting it with a crossover cable directly to the other laptop
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| 18:50 | <stgraber> you can't expect to do any ltsp work with a hub
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| 18:50 | you need switches
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| 18:50 | otherwise one client's traffic will kill your whole network
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| 18:53 | <nothingman> yeah
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| 18:53 | it's pretty good once they're all booted
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| 18:58 | <stgraber> Ryan52: is it possible to display a multi-line message with ldm-dialog ?
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| 19:24 | <Ryan52> stgraber, dunno.
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| 19:24 | hmm. one sec.
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| 19:30 | stgraber: $ ./ldm-dialog --message "a
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| 19:30 | b"
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| 19:31 | that works fine for me.
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| 19:34 | <stgraber> Ryan52: cool, and is there a way to make the window bigger ?
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| 19:35 | Ryan52: What I need for ltsp-cluster is to show a message at the first boot of the thin client with it's IP address, mac address and URL of the control center
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| 19:35 | so the tech doing the install can just connect to the web UI and configure the thin client
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| 19:36 | So basically a "This thin client hasn't been configured yet. Here is the system informations:" and then IP, MAC, URL to the control center and possibly more things (CPU, RAM and video)
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| 19:44 | <Ryan52> why do you need it bigger?
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| 19:44 | is the stuff too wide?
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| 19:45 | <stgraber> yeah
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| 19:45 | <Ryan52> if you need it wider, tweak ldm-dialog.c, there are some things defined at the top. :P
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| 19:46 | alternatively I can just add a --width option easily.
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| 19:46 | * Ryan52 is gonna redo it so that it's smart enough to figure out the width itself ... eventually. | |
| 19:46 | <stgraber> that or a --fit-content option that'd disable the forced width
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| 19:46 | (usually gtk is good at that)
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| 19:47 | <Ryan52> I think I have some form of evil that I used that makes that not work.
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| 19:47 | <stgraber> oh
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| 19:47 | <Ryan52> I'll look at it when I get home and have a window manager that will actually let me see the width ... this window manager forcibly stretches everything.
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| 19:48 | <stgraber> hehe :)
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| 21:44 | <stgraber> Ryan52: another thing about ldm-dialog, for the translation of the buttons you're currently using gettext. Was there any reason not to use gtk's stock buttons ? I believe these are translated as part of gtk and automatically gets the right icon
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| 22:41 | <dberkholz> knipwim: hi, much of my howto is outdated now. you want the ltsp overlay (available in layman)
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| 22:47 | <Ryan52> stgraber, ya, I'll look at that too.
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| 23:54 | <head_> hello
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| 23:59 | <ball> hello head_
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