IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 24 January 2009 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:18 | <alkisg> stgraber, about the xgettext thing, couldn't "file" be used to see the file types and then pass the appropriate "--language" parameter to xgettext?
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| 00:19 | Of course a "case" would be needed to convert "Bourne-Again shell script text executable" returned by file to "Shell" expected by xgettext --language, but it's only for 3-4 different file types, so it won't be hard...
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| 00:22 | <SDuensin> alkisg, do you ever sleep?
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| 00:22 | <alkisg> SDuensin: heh... I just woke up, I'm on UTC+2 .... 8:22 in the morning
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| 00:23 | <SDuensin> Ah! It's 12:23am here. I'm up watching Babylon 5 while the wife and kid are sleeping.
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| 00:23 | * alkisg is looking at imdb for babylon 5... | |
| 00:23 | <SDuensin> It's EXCELLENT science fiction. Basically a 5-year long TV novel.
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| 00:26 | <johnny> kc8pxy, you about yet?
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| 00:28 | <SDuensin> johnny - any progress with Sabayon?
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| 00:28 | <johnny> SDuensin, no.. i had to work many shifts in our store instead..
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| 00:28 | and i've been trying to get my gentoo ltsp box back up
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| 00:29 | <SDuensin> Is there anything I can do to just make it run?
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| 00:29 | <johnny> after that, i'll be able to work with scott
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| 00:29 | * SDuensin is a Scott! | |
| 00:29 | <johnny> it runs for me..
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| 00:29 | sorta..
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| 00:29 | get back to me in 2 days
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| 00:29 | <SDuensin> Nothing on Ubuntu. Dunno why they even bothered to package it.
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| 00:30 | <johnny> i had it working on ubuntu.. as long as i didn't prod it :)
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| 00:30 | <SDuensin> Is pressing "Edit" considered prodding?
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| 00:30 | <johnny> you're probably gonna have to install out of svn if you wanna help test it and whatnot
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| 00:30 | <SDuensin> I can do that.
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| 00:30 | * SDuensin is a code monkey. | |
| 00:31 | <johnny> you could help out with the patches then?
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| 00:31 | <SDuensin> I don't speak Python. I could learn.
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| 00:32 | I'm up to my ears in stuff now, but I do like to contribute to things I use.
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| 00:44 | <alkisg> Ryan52: thanks for http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk/revision/1063 :)
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| 00:45 | But I think break should ALWAYS be executed if (res == -1)...
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| 00:45 | <SDuensin> You guys all rock. I really appreciate all the work that's been put into LTSP.
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| 00:54 | <Ryan52> alkisg, the other possible errors that can cause it to return -1 are programming mistakes...I want things to be all weird and screwy and spamming syslog if somebody breaks the code, rather than it outputing a one line long error and acting normal.
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| 01:04 | <alkisg> Understood. Thanks again!
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| 01:31 | <alkisg> Is this a good way to send a patch? `bzr branch lp:~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk`, then modify e.g. el.po, then `bzr diff`, and finally send the result in the ltsp-devel mailing list?
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| 05:57 | <nubae> hmmm, doesn't ltsp-update-kernels do the same as: /usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels in chroot?
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| 06:56 | <alkisg> nubae: I think that the chroot version updates the kernels, the server version copies the chroot kernels to the server tftp directory.
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| 07:30 | <nubae> I thought the server version builds kernels too
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| 07:30 | not just copy
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| 10:23 | <stgraber> alkisg: about the "file" thing, if I can do that I can also tell xgettext that everything in rc.d/ are shell scripts ...
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| 10:23 | alkisg: but in this case, the Makefile is gnenerated by autotools so I can't :)
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| 10:23 | *:(
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| 10:23 | <alkisg> Ah.... I hate autotools
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| 10:23 | I had to use them once 3 years ago, and I still hurt! :P
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| 10:24 | <stgraber> yeah ... for ltsp-trunk we have our own stuff for gettext and it works relatively well but with ldm it only works with the C code :(
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| 10:25 | <alkisg> Anyway... I'm trying to dive a little deeper into ltsp... do you happen to know why ltspfs was implemented instead of using sshfs (from the server to the client) ?
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| 10:29 | <alkisg> stgraber, have you even used cmake? Is it really better than autotools?
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| 10:38 | <johnny> alkisg, because sshfs couldn't do certain things at the time
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| 10:39 | some of them it can do now, not sure if it is all.
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| 10:39 | <nubae> hey johnny... u were looking for me the other day...
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| 10:40 | <johnny> and now i forgot why..
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| 10:40 | <nubae> :-)
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| 10:40 | <alkisg> Thanks johnny
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| 10:40 | <johnny> there are reasons people still use autotools after all this time over newer things
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| 10:40 | it's not just habit.
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| 10:41 | <alkisg> I don't know autotools nor cmake, I just read some articles saying that it's a good thing (tm) and people are supposed to switch to it... :P
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| 10:42 | <johnny> then there's scons. and a million other tools.. all saying that
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| 10:42 | <nubae> whats wrong with autotools?
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| 10:42 | <alkisg> For me it's just that it is difficult to learn
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| 10:42 | Too many things to remember to just build a project
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| 10:42 | <johnny> nubae, stgraber is having trouble making non .sh extensioned shell scripts being known by gettext
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| 10:43 | <nubae> ah
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| 10:43 | <johnny> read up 30 or so lines
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| 10:43 | also a really recent post on ltsp-developer
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| 10:45 | <nubae> there's a nice howto for autotools here: http://markuskimius.wikidot.com/programming:tut:autotools
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| 11:34 | <Guza> on ubuntu ltsp work perfectly
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| 11:34 | when u will fix ltsp on gentoo?
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| 11:36 | <johnny> well. it is always going to be harder on gentoo, as we cannot force certain settings on our users
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| 11:36 | unlike ubuntu
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| 11:36 | so things can work easier on ubuntu
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| 11:36 | <Guza> heh
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| 11:36 | <johnny> i actually use ubuntu ltsp at my store
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| 11:36 | <Guza> never mind
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| 11:36 | <johnny> it works nice
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| 11:36 | <Guza> yes
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| 11:36 | it works great
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| 11:37 | great work
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| 11:37 | dont know what else to say
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| 11:39 | 3 days i was trying to setup ltsp on gentoo :D
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| 11:39 | <johnny> Guza, there are many things in gentoo that make things not as easy.. i must force certain unstable packages to be installed
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| 11:39 | <Guza> i found some manuals on gentoo web site:D
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| 11:39 | <johnny> you did not find any working manual
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| 11:39 | <Guza> nope
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| 11:39 | <Guza> i don't
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| 11:39 | <johnny> the ltsp guide on gentoo is for ltsp 4 which is deprecated
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| 11:39 | <Guza> :D
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| 11:39 | <johnny> Guza, perhpas you can help make certain packages stable
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| 11:40 | <Guza> no i cant
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| 11:40 | <johnny> so i won't have to hack so much :)
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| 11:40 | <Guza> i am not programer
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| 11:40 | :)
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| 11:40 | <johnny> using gentoo properly is hard if you are not a programmer
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| 11:40 | <Guza> just like gentoo
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| 11:40 | well sometimes
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| 11:40 | yes is hard
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| 11:41 | but more funny
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| 11:41 | :)
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| 11:41 | <johnny> well atm .. i can't build pango on my server
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| 11:41 | so i can't test my ltsp
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| 11:41 | nor can i build firefox :(
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| 11:41 | <Guza> LOL
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| 11:42 | <Guza> well once mroe time
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| 11:42 | <johnny> all my fonts come up as squares
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| 11:42 | <Guza> great work
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| 11:42 | i must go
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| 11:42 | :)
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| 11:42 | <johnny> when i get that stuff worked out.. i can test it
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| 11:42 | <Guza> and thanks for sharing it
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| 11:58 | <pdjbarber> can anyone help me in locating where the tftp server is configured in opensuse kiwi-ltsp?
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| 11:58 | i have my DHCP server on a firewall with no TFTP server capabilty, and it loads initial tftp file, but then tries to go to "server tftp." cannot find it so goes to DHCP server
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| 11:58 | ie my firewall
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| 12:06 | <alkisg> "it loads initial tftp file"... which file, pxelinux.0? and from where? the dhcp server or the ltsp server?
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| 12:07 | <pdjbarber> it loads the initial tftp file from the ltsp server using the "next server" paramater on the dhcp server
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| 12:09 | the initail file is the pxelinus.0 file
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| 12:09 | sorry pxelinux.0 file
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| 12:10 | <alkisg> And what do you mean with "then tries to go to "server tftp." cannot find" ?
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| 12:10 | The next file to be loaded would be pxelinux.cfg/default (or mac address) and then the kernel
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| 12:11 | <pdjbarber> the boot messages say "Checking server name: tftp."
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| 12:11 | then "server: tftp. not found"
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| 12:11 | <alkisg> Well, if it thinks that your server is named "tftp" it will be difficult to find it! :)
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| 12:12 | But before that, doesn't it load the pxelinux configuration file?
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| 12:12 | <pdjbarber> finally "using <dhcpserverIP> from dhcpcd-info
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| 12:12 | <johnny> simple fix .. tell your server that tftp exists.. as a hostname..
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| 12:13 | and it is the same as your ltsp server
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| 12:13 | or.. look at your dhcp config and set the hostname there
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| 12:13 | <pdjbarber> i have put a dns entry in for tftp in my dns server but still same problem
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| 12:13 | <alkisg> ...it shouldn't be loading pxelinux.0 if dhcp.conf was misconfigured...
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| 12:13 | <pdjbarber> it loads pxelinux.0 from ltsp server no problems
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| 12:13 | <johnny> alkisg, it's the second time through
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| 12:14 | in the initramfs that it is screwed up
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| 12:14 | but that is some custom suse thing
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| 12:14 | <alkisg> pdjbarber: is your kernel/initramfs loading at all? or it stops right after loading pxelinux.0?
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| 12:15 | <pdjbarber> it is loading with no probs, only on second tftp file it is having problems
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| 12:16 | <alkisg> Ah, ok, if the kernel is loading then it's not a tftp problem
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| 12:16 | <johnny> alkisg, yes it could be.. for lts.conf
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| 12:16 | ubuntu/gentoo/fedora get the lts.conf over tftp
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| 12:17 | suse probably does too
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| 12:17 | <alkisg> johnny: I meant that tftp is not to blame, it isn't misconfigured, it works ok, something else is the problem (like, thinking that the server hostname is tftp)
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| 12:17 | <johnny> but gentoo and fedora do it after the initramfs, while ubuntu/debian does it in the initramfs
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| 12:17 | yes.. thus my comment about the suse initramfs earlier
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| 12:17 | i don't know if suse does it in the initramfs or after
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| 12:17 | <pdjbarber> i think Suse gets the lts.conf after initramfs
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| 12:18 | <alkisg> pdjbarber: so what is it trying to load from tftp?
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| 12:18 | <pdjbarber> a config file...which is what i was used to seeing with LTSP4
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| 12:19 | <johnny> yes.. lts.conf
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| 12:19 | <alkisg> Ok... I have no idea about this, I thought it was a tftp problem. Why don't you try asking in #kiwi?
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| 12:20 | <pdjbarber> ok...will try #kiwi then, thanks
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| 12:24 | <alkisg> I wonder what linux would look like if there was only one (highly customizable) distro out there, with much fewer toolkits / window managers / alternatives, so that programmers could better focus their efforts...
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| 12:24 | <johnny> that's not what would happen
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| 12:24 | <laga> alkisg: people would develop additional distros, more toolkits/WMs/alternatives
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| 12:24 | <alkisg> Heh...
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| 12:24 | <johnny> that's not how programmers work
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| 12:25 | there is one exception to the rule tho
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| 12:25 | <alkisg> E.g. I have 17 years of experience with assembly / C / windows API, and I'm 1 year to linux, and I can't code anything... I can't even select a toolkit! :)
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| 12:25 | <johnny> gtk+/qt
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| 12:25 | if qt would have been LGPL from the start.. we might not have gtk+
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| 12:25 | and that would have been a big deal
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| 12:26 | <alkisg> johnny: if you were in my position, what would you choose among the two of them?
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| 12:26 | <johnny> depends
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| 12:26 | on your portability concerns
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| 12:26 | <alkisg> I'd like my apps to be able to run on windows, because they'll probably be educational applications
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| 12:26 | <johnny> generally.. i only write webapps :)
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| 12:26 | for ultra portability :)
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| 12:27 | <alkisg> Sure... like web engines aren't a hell...
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| 12:27 | <johnny> ie6 is the devil
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| 12:27 | <alkisg> My site even runs on ie4 :P :D
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| 12:27 | <johnny> sure.. for now..
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| 12:27 | as you're not taking advantage of newer js frameworks
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| 12:27 | which make things much easier to deal with
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| 12:27 | like jquery
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| 12:28 | <alkisg> That's true, I don't use any framework.
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| 12:28 | <johnny> i'd suggest it
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| 12:28 | or.. you could do a prism app
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| 12:28 | an xulrunner app
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| 12:28 | <alkisg> Nah, I like building my own libraries from scratch
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| 12:28 | <johnny> that is silly
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| 12:28 | don't do it
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| 12:28 | take advantage of what exists
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| 12:28 | don't reinvent the wheel
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| 12:28 | <alkisg> I like the experience, it's not like I'm trying to make money out of it
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| 12:29 | <johnny> be the change you want to see
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| 12:29 | right now.. you're directly contradicting your original intent
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| 12:29 | ie: "what if there were only one..."
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| 12:29 | <alkisg> Yes, that would save me time, I wouldn't have to make my own library to run in IE4 to 8, webkit, gecko, khtml etc...
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| 12:30 | <johnny> ie4???
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| 12:30 | those people can't even see much of the internet
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| 12:30 | <alkisg> Yes, there are some schools with ie4...
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| 12:30 | <johnny> hack em
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| 12:30 | so they have to upgrade :)
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| 12:30 | <alkisg> I had an embedded mshtml in one of my applications
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| 12:30 | So I had to support windows 95/98 etc
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| 12:30 | <johnny> that would suck
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| 12:30 | people are dropping support for that left and right
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| 12:31 | does gtk or qt still work on that even? :)
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| 12:31 | <alkisg> Yeap... 6 months of development, and 4 years on compatibility / portability debugging...
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| 12:31 | Bah, I got tired now, I'm also dropping support for them, so I don't care if qt/gtk support them
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| 12:31 | <johnny> good
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| 12:32 | those people need to be forced to upgrade
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| 12:32 | people like them are holding back the internet
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| 12:32 | <alkisg> Well, I used to be one of those people, with ancient PCs I couldn't do much. Then my school got a server and I got to know ltsp, and things changed... :)
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| 12:33 | Money is the main problem for upgrading :(
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| 12:33 | <johnny> raise some money :)
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| 12:33 | every student gives $2 .. and you can upgrade :)
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| 12:33 | student/parent
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| 12:33 | bug corporations for old computers
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| 12:34 | <alkisg> I got 2 celerons / 600 Mhz from corporations. You can't really do much with them, except for ltsp clients
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| 12:34 | <johnny> which to them are really old.. but newer than what you have :)
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| 12:34 | try ones with a shorter upgrade cycle
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| 12:34 | 2 or 3 years is fine
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| 12:34 | <alkisg> I don't think we have such organizations in my town! :)
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| 12:35 | <johnny> go farther afield :)
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| 12:35 | greece is not a huge country
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| 12:36 | <alkisg> But anyway, now with ltsp they're fine, I can even watch 20 fps full screen video. Only 3d apps are missing, but I don't care much
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| 12:36 | <johnny> alkisg, maybe i do world tour of ltsp.
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| 12:36 | get ltsp users to feed me on my travels as i help them with system admin tasks and programming :)
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| 12:37 | <alkisg> Well, if you ever come to greece, you have a place to stay and as much beer as you can drink. No lobster, though... :P
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| 12:37 | <johnny> i would love to do an "open source world tour"
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| 12:38 | it would be awesome.
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| 12:38 | i could probably make that trip last an entire year
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| 12:38 | <alkisg> Ah, things are easy for bachelors... :(
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| 12:39 | <johnny> i'm not one..
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| 12:39 | got a gf
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| 12:39 | <alkisg> Well, you can take her with you, I'm sure she won't object to a trip round the world... :P
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| 12:40 | Me, with 3 kids, it's more difficult! :D
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| 12:41 | <johnny> that's why i haven't had kids :)
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| 12:41 | yet
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| 12:42 | <alkisg> ....and I got to go now, to feed one of them!!! :P bbl
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| 15:48 | <tinpardo> hola
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| 16:57 | <wpger> anyone figure out how to have an Xsession follow you from terminal to terminal?
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| 16:58 | any way to redirect an existing session to another terminal
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| 16:58 | <johnny> something everybody wants..
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| 19:00 | <stgraber> vagrantc: about your changes to the .pot, they will be overwritten the next time we update them. You should fine a way to fix that in the autotools scripts/templates or in the Makefiles
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| 19:01 | vagrantc: basically, doing: sh autogen.sh && ./configure && cd po && make ldm.pot shouldn't overwrite your changes
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| 19:02 | <vagrantc> stgraber: yeah, i know. but it's important to have those changes in there, as those are important things to have if someone starts a new translation
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| 19:03 | <stgraber> yeah, I'm pretty sure you can tell the autotools what to put in these fields and so it won't overwrite them the next time we rebuild the .pot
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| 19:04 | but I'm not really an autotools expert so can't really help here :)
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| 19:05 | <vagrantc> yeah, i just posted a message suggesting maybe to switch away from autotools for the .po* stuff, if that's actually easier.
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| 19:09 | <warren> hmm, is using -depth really the best idea?
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| 19:09 | can't you do exactly the same thing with options in xorg.conf?
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| 19:09 | it seems inconsistent
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| 19:12 | <vagrantc> if the only option you're changing is -depth, why generate an xorg.conf?
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| 19:55 | <stgraber> vagrantc: just read your message, as far as I'm concerned, the less we rely on autotools for things that can be done another way the better :)
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| 19:56 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 19:56 | <stgraber> for the po/ dir using autotools seems extremely complex and hard to change it to work the way you want
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| 19:57 | <vagrantc> right, that's why i suggested autotools ... for some things, autotools is a good thing. but if it's something simple, i don't see much reason to go with it.
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| 19:57 | er, suggested *not* using autotools...
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| 19:58 | <stgraber> I don't know if xgettext can be told that some files are c and some other are scripts and if we can tell it to append its output to an existing .pot
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| 19:58 | if not, we may have to generate two distincts pot
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| 19:58 | <vagrantc> or merge two pot files...
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| 19:59 | xgettext --join-existing maybe, on a second or third run...
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| 20:01 | <stgraber> ok, I guess I'll wait till tomorrow and if nobody comes with the autotools way of doing it I'll just go ahead and get rid of autotools for gettext and implement something similar to what was done for ltsp-server
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| 20:01 | <vagrantc> --package-name and --package-version to hopefully set that stuff properly...
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| 20:04 | <vagrantc> hrm. --package-name and --package-version only substitute in project-id-version ... *sigh*
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| 20:08 | <warren> you don't need to autotoolize every part of it
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| 20:44 | <stgraber> anyone working on ltsp-trunk at the moment ? I'm planning to tag soon (packaging something else at the moment, then I'll do it)
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| 20:44 | <warren> I'm fixing something Fedora only for ltsp-trunk, but testing will require more time
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| 20:44 | just go ahead
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| 20:44 | I'll just tag again later.
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| 21:27 | <Shingoshi> What makes kiwi-ltsp different from everything else that's out there?
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| 21:43 | <vagrantc> it's kind of it's own thing.
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| 21:44 | they use some of the ltsp software, but a lot is just implemented in their own way with their own convetions...
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| 21:53 | <stgraber> vagrantc: looks like I was a lot behind at syncing ltsp-build-client plugins with Debian :)
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| 21:53 | <vagrantc> i've done a bunch of crazy stuff, yes. :)
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| 21:54 | <stgraber> I just had a quick look through your plugin list and symlinked everything that should apply to both Debian and Ubuntu
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| 21:54 | btw, for things that work for both Debian and Ubuntu I'd suggest we put them in Debian and then symlink from Ubuntu
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| 21:55 | <vagrantc> having symlinks in both directions isn't really a bad thing.
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| 21:56 | * vagrantc is hankerin to plan another hackfest | |
| 21:58 | * vagrantc waves | |
| 22:01 | <johnny> hello vagrantc
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| 22:01 | vagrantc, we will meet again someday
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| 22:01 | of that i am sure
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| 22:59 | <johnny> kc8pxy, you around?
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