IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 16 January 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 06:27 | <fiberglasscivic1> Hello all, I need help with customizing clients
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| 06:29 | <alkisg> !ask
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| 06:29 | <ltsp`> alkisg: ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least 15 minutes after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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| 06:33 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so i noticed the new version re-generates the server certificate in the client too...
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| 06:34 | <alkisg> Hi vagrantc. No, the user is supposed to transfer that manually
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| 06:34 | <vagrantc> alkisg: there's no way to simple update the expiration date?
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| 06:34 | alkisg: yes, but the postinst regenerated the certificate
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| 06:34 | on the client
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| 06:34 | <alkisg> By "client" you mean the epoptes "server", right? Yeah
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| 06:35 | vagrantc: planned announcement: https://sites.google.com/a/epoptes.org/www/news/_draft_post#
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| 06:35 | I don't know about the date, I thought that too, but I doubted it, as it's part of the certificate itself,
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| 06:35 | <vagrantc> alkisg: no... when i upgraded it in ltsp, i saw a message about generating a new server cert
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| 06:35 | but i don't see ho wthat would happen.
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| 06:36 | <alkisg> When epoptes is upgraded from 0.3.x, a new certificate is generated
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| 06:36 | When epoptes-client is upgraded, nothing happens
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| 06:36 | The user is supposed to manually transfer the server.crt to the chroot or his standalone workstations
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| 06:36 | Now, even if we could update the date only, we'd need to do that on the clients
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| 06:37 | <vagrantc> sure
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| 06:37 | <alkisg> So the user would still have to chroot and upgrade epoptes-client...
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| 06:37 | <vagrantc> i dunno... maybe i was looking at the wrong screen or something...
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| 06:37 | <alkisg> Do you think we're allowed to run `epoptes-client -c` to fetch the certificate from the server in this case?
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| 06:37 | <vagrantc> i committed a few missing dependencies for epoptes-client as well...
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| 06:37 | <alkisg> Saw them, ty...
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| 06:38 | <vagrantc> every since i made ltsp-build-client build a truely minimal chroot, i'm finding all sorts of missing deps in things.
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| 06:38 | <alkisg> Hehe
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| 06:39 | I found one about svg while trying to run it in KDE too...
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| 06:39 | (the client)
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| 06:44 | <alkisg> vagrantc: so I was thinking, how about we did a release today to get rid of that certificate problem (and have the groups feature tested etc), and then after a week or so, to make another release that adds vinagre support + the few missing translations (i.e. I'm thinking of mailing the translators today).
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| 06:44 | Does that sound OK, or should we wait for vinagre + translations and only make 1 release?
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| 06:45 | <vagrantc> i'd like to get the cert problem fixed ASAP
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| 06:45 | alkisg: was wondering if you might want a cert generation script wrapper, instead of just dumping it in postinst
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| 06:51 | <alkisg> vagrantc: like, /usr/share/epoptes/generate-certificate, which the sysadmin could use to generate a certificate even after postinst?
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| 06:52 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yeah, or if they wanted to regenerate their certs for some reason
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| 06:53 | the postinst could simply call that, then...
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| 06:53 | <alkisg> Yup... I just don't know in which cases the sysadmin would need that, and not to call openssl himself, to add extra data that we don't provide
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| 06:54 | Like the authority or company name or manual expiration date etc
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| 06:56 | <vagrantc> it was a thought, i'm not set on it
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| 06:57 | * alkisg keeps it in mind, and goes on to rename "students" to "users" etc | |
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| 07:03 | * alkisg also makes a note to put info for certificate regeneration in the wiki | |
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| 07:27 | <fiberglasscivic1> !ask
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| 07:27 | <ltsp`> fiberglasscivic1: ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least 15 minutes after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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| 07:28 | <fiberglasscivic1> I am working on customizing my thin client builds and would like to know how to make it so that the client can make permanent changes
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| 07:34 | <alkisg> Permanent changes where? Whatever they change in their home directory is permanent...
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| 07:36 | <fiberglasscivic1> Things like panel items and install programs
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| 07:36 | <alkisg> To install programs, you just give them sudo access (or root access in debian)
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| 07:37 | To change panel items, they just edit the panels, nothing special
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| 07:37 | <fiberglasscivic1> The problem I have is that when the client reboots, those changes are lost
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| 07:37 | <alkisg> Maybe you have a broken setup somehow?
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| 07:38 | When a user on a thin client logs in, he's working on the server
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| 07:38 | So any changes he does are done on the server immediately
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| 07:38 | E.g. if you login on thin-client-1, and install gimp, then thin-client-2 immediately has gimp
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| 07:38 | Did you do a normal installation? Or did you do something weird like adding users to the chroot, and gdm, or fat clients etc?
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| 07:40 | <fiberglasscivic1> I followed a tutorial at this link http://www.havetheknowhow.com/Configure-the-server/Install-LTSP.html
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| 07:41 | <alkisg> OK, so try what I said above
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| 07:41 | Open a thin client, and install a program, e.g. htop
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| 07:41 | Then check on another thin client if that program is immediately available. It should be.
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| 07:41 | And if you reboot both clients, the program should still be there
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| 07:42 | If you see any indication that that's not the case for you, stop and say so
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| 07:42 | <fiberglasscivic1> Ok, give me a minute
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| 07:59 | <fiberglasscivic1> Ok, I installed a program on one thin client and logged into a second. The second thin client doesn't have the new program
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| 08:05 | <alkisg> fiberglasscivic1: from the first thin client, type: hostname
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| 08:05 | Is that the hostname of your server?
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| 08:06 | <fiberglasscivic1> no
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| 08:06 | <alkisg> Then your setup is wrong
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| 08:06 | When you login, do you see the LDM screen? http://www.stgraber.org/download/images/ldm.png
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| 08:07 | Also, which distro are you using? ubuntu server? Which version?
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| 08:08 | <fiberglasscivic1> I do not see the ldm screen. Ubuntu Server 10.04
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| 08:09 | <alkisg> What do you see when you login on your thin clients?
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| 08:09 | GDM? A text console?
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| 08:10 | <fiberglasscivic1> http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/7980/screenshotrd.png
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| 08:10 | I believe that's gdm
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| 08:10 | <alkisg> Indeed
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| 08:10 | So you did 2 things wrong
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| 08:10 | 1) you install gdm (or ubuntu desktop or something) in your chroot
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| 08:10 | That would make your clients fat clients, not thin clients
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| 08:11 | 2) you created users in your chroot
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| 08:11 | You should create users in your server instead
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| 08:11 | Delete your chroot and start over
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| 08:11 | <fiberglasscivic1> Easy enough
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| 08:11 | <alkisg> Remember that you need ubuntu-desktop installed on your server
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| 08:11 | Even if it's a server installation instead of a desktop one
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| 08:12 | <fiberglasscivic1> I have it installed so I can vnc into the server
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| 08:12 | <alkisg> OK
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| 08:13 | * alkisg would use x2go instead of vnc though | |
| 08:17 | <fiberglasscivic1> I will check it out. There are some limitations in VNC that I don't like anyway
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| 08:20 | While I'm waiting on the client to build, I have another question. I read about auto login for specific machines by adding info to the dchpd.conf file. Will this also select the desktop environment if there are multiple types available?
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| 08:39 | <alkisg> fiberglasscivic1: you don't need to add info to dhcpdc.conf for this. You put the autologin info to lts.conf
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| 08:39 | !lts.conf
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| 08:39 | <ltsp`> alkisg: lts.conf: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
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| 08:40 | <alkisg> Read the man page for autologin while you wait :)
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| 08:40 | <fiberglasscivic1> that's where I'm at now
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| 08:40 | lol
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| 08:40 | I want to be able to boot htpc's from my ltsp server
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| 08:41 | as well as normal terminals
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| 08:41 | your info fixed my problem. Thanks for the help
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| 08:41 | no more adding users to the chroot
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| 08:42 | <muppis> fiberglasscivic1, if you want to use DVD drive in htpc, you need add user to cdrom group in chroot to able access the drive.
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| 08:43 | <alkisg> fiberglasscivic1: what are your htpc client specs? RAM, CPU ?
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| 08:43 | If they have enough RAM, you'll probably want to use them as fat clients
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| 08:43 | Because multimedia streaming with local lan X traffic is slow + cpu + bandwidth consuming
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| 08:44 | <muppis> I runned xbmc as local app.
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| 08:44 | <alkisg> muppis: but you had to do a lot of workarounds for the dvd to work etc
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| 08:44 | While with fat clients they'd just work
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| 08:44 | <muppis> alkisg, not really. Just add user to cdrom group. :)
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| 08:45 | <alkisg> muppis: what about camera?
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| 08:45 | And, why have all the ltspfs overhead?
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| 08:45 | Traffic going from the client to the server and then to the client again?
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| 08:45 | <muppis> xbmc access directly to device, doesn't use ltspfs.
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| 08:46 | <alkisg> Anyway the concept is the same with either localapps or fat clients, i.e. to run the apps locally
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| 08:47 | Did you install firefox locally as well?
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| 08:47 | <fiberglasscivic1> probably the Foxcon nt435H with Intel Atom D425 @ 1.8ghz and 1GB or 2GB of ram
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| 08:48 | no DVD drive
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| 08:48 | <muppis> Dedicated chroot and user for htpc, only launching xbmc.
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| 08:48 | <alkisg> fiberglasscivic1: yeah either with localapps or with fat clients, try to run your multimedia apps locally
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| 08:49 | !fatclients
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| 08:49 | <ltsp`> alkisg: fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 08:49 | <alkisg> ...and somewhere near there there's a page for localapps too
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| 08:49 | <fiberglasscivic1> I'm familiar with that section. It's where I've learned a lot about thinclients and network booting in general
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| 08:59 | by running the apps locally, will that help to smooth out video? or does the server hardware matter for that
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| 09:00 | <muppis> It will help smooth. Local apps are only loaded from server, everything else is happened in client.
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| 09:01 | <fiberglasscivic1> I'll look into it.
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| 09:01 | <alkisg> Accelleration from the graphics card on the client also helps (e.g. vdpau) to play hd video
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| 09:03 | <fiberglasscivic1> I'm going to look into this further tomorrow. It's 4am here now. Bed is calling. lol
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| 09:03 | Again, thanks to everyone for the help
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| 14:21 | <_UsUrPeR_> stgraber: woo! Fix committed upstream -- https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/907055
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| 14:25 | <alkisg> Woot, way to go _UsUrPeR_!
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| 14:26 | <_UsUrPeR_> :D
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| 14:26 | alkisg: that is a crazy process
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| 14:27 | <alkisg> Yeah... the bright side is that since it's so difficult, it's also difficult to get untested code into the kernel :D
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| 14:27 | <_UsUrPeR_> true that
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| 14:27 | also, the submission process is insane, but that keeps everything organized for the maintainers
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| 14:28 | still, I feel like I just finished a doctorate dissertation :)
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| 14:28 | <alkisg> Hehehe
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| 14:28 | * alkisg wishes he will finally get to do that in a few months himself... | |
| 14:30 | <_UsUrPeR_> heh. so do I.
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| 14:30 | The process is 90% waiting, 19% correspondence, and 1% creating the patch
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| 14:30 | err 80% waiting
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| 14:30 | also 1% math ;)
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| 14:30 | well crap
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| 14:31 | that's right - to get a patch in a kernel, you need to give 109%
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| 14:31 | <alkisg> :D
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| 14:34 | <stgraber> _UsUrPeR_: yeah! now Linus will hopefully pull from that branch into the 3.3 branch quite soon so the kernel team will be happy to pull the change into our kernel
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| 14:35 | and yeah the kernel has become pretty well organized making things quite a bit bureaucratic and slow, with sub-sub-system maintainers (intel driver), sub-system maintainers (drm stack) and then kernel maintainers
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| 14:35 | each of them having to review and push the changes to the next one
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| 14:43 | <Flaw> i'm having a bit of trouble getting thin clients to play nicely. Thus far I've managed to get them booting, PXE boot works and I get to the login manager, but after logging in, the only thing I get is a terminal window covering 1/4th of the screen
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| 14:43 | any ideas where to start looking?
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| 14:44 | this is on an ubuntu server edition, 11.10
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| 14:46 | <alkisg> Flaw: did you install ubuntu-desktop in your server?
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| 14:46 | <Flaw> mmmm, not that I know of
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| 14:46 | I imagined building the client image would have taken care of things like that
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| 14:46 | that would make sense though
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| 14:50 | <alkisg> It's usually recommented to install with the alternate cd, instead of the server cd, so that you don't have to do that manually
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| 14:56 | <Flaw> yeah, I'll try installing that and see what happens
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| 14:56 | thanks
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| 15:15 | <nubae> hi... anyone here know how to make openchrome driver work properly for ltsp
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| 15:16 | seems to work fine for regular ubuntu, just not ltsp
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| 15:16 | <nubae> on ltsp, screen comes up with what seems to be a desynched screen...
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| 15:16 | but I've tried all I can think of in lts.conf
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| 15:17 | only thing I can think of doing is compiling a special image with the openchrome driver compiled in
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| 15:19 | <nubae> but that seems like a bit of a pain if there is another way.. . I did do this once before when the latest ATA driver didnt work with ltsp, so the procedure would be the same only with openchrome closed source drivers from VIA
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| 15:21 | Its pretty important in my opinion as there are now really powerful fatclients that cost 150 euros 2ghz via processor, 2 gigabytes RAM, HDMI, blueray, 1920x1080 FULL HD
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| 15:22 | Seems like a real good deal, oh and hard drive 160 gb... it makes for the perfect fatclient (ltsp based) and was made for ubuntu so...
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| 15:23 | perhaps its because I'm still with 10.04, and maybe these are running a newer openchrome fixed version of ubuntu
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| 15:25 | this is the make and model btw if anyone is interested> ZC-MC7 Zaapa
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| 15:29 | It's half the price of Acer aspire revo R3610 which though runs an atom processor seems less powerful
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| 17:59 | <vagrantc> !seen alkisg
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| 17:59 | <ltsp`> vagrantc: alkisg was last seen in #ltsp 3 hours, 8 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <alkisg> It's usually recommented to install with the alternate cd, instead of the server cd, so that you don't have to do that manually
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| 17:59 | <vagrantc> being helpful, as usual.
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| 20:29 | <vagrantc> sheesh... i wonder if we shouldn't ship some sort of disable-compiz wrapper in LTSP packages...
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| 20:30 | actually, we could disable compiz from ldm based on an lts.conf setting
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| 20:30 | * vagrantc wonders if there's a way to temporarily disable compiz on a per-session basis. | |
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| 20:37 | <abeehc> maybe metacity --replace
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| 20:38 | <stgraber> vagrantc: IIRC there's a way of disabling compiz in lts.conf. For per-user, there's a gconf/dconf key for that (can't easily check here but it's something like window-manager, gconf-editor should make it easy to find it)
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| 21:12 | <vagrantc> stgraber: can't seem to find the lts.conf variables...
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| 21:15 | <stgraber> vagrantc: hmm, indeed, I thought you could override SKIP_CHECKS but apparently you can't ...
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| 21:15 | maybe mgariepy knows another way to turn off compiz
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| 21:17 | <mgariepy> vagrantc, maybe you can just use another session which disable compiz
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| 21:17 | !ldm_session
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| 21:17 | <ltsp`> mgariepy: Error: "ldm_session" is not a valid command.
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| 21:25 | <vagrantc> i was just thinking, given how often it comes up for LTSP, we should have something built-in so that users don't have to mess with long gconf commandlines
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| 21:26 | (users/sysadmins)
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| 21:37 | <mgariepy> !compiz
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| 21:37 | <ltsp`> mgariepy: compiz: the default window manager in gnome is gnome-wm, which automatically chooses compiz if it thinks that the card supports it. Compiz is causing login problems to some clients (LP #673072). To disable it, see !disable_compiz. To restore it, see !restore_compiz
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| 21:37 | <mgariepy> !disable_compiz
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| 21:37 | <ltsp`> mgariepy: disable_compiz: To disable compiz for all users, run: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
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| 21:37 | <mgariepy> apt-get purge compiz can work too ;)
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| 21:37 | hehe
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| 21:46 | <nubae> stgraber, any idea about what I mentioned above?
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| 21:48 | <stgraber> nubae: for openchrome issues you'll probably want to talk to mgariepy, I don't have VIA hardware around anymore
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| 21:49 | nubae: also keep in mind that unless VIA changed their CPU quite a bit recently, none of them will be supported in 12.10 (you'll still have the LTS for 5 years though)
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| 21:49 | <nubae> any idea why it works on regular ubuntu but not on ltsp?
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| 21:49 | stgraber, can u embelish? we were thinking on buying many more of these clients
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| 21:50 | <stgraber> can you check if X is started with a config? (ps aux | grep X), if it's, then maybe that's because LTSP has an old VIA hook that's messing up with recent openchrome
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| 21:50 | <nubae> it starts no problem, but the res is totally out of synch
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| 21:51 | <stgraber> nubae: We'll drop non-PAE support completely in 12.10, so any hardware hardware that doesn't support PAE (VIA, Geode, most Pentium M, ...) won't be able to boot anymore
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| 21:51 | <nubae> u know horizontal sidelineing
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| 21:51 | not sure how to explain it
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| 21:51 | oh
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| 21:51 | <stgraber> so unless VIA recently implemented PAE on their new CPUs, they won't be able to boot
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| 21:51 | <nubae> so the C7 doesnt support PAE?
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| 21:52 | <stgraber> nubae: according to wikipedia it may depend on the C7
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| 21:52 | nubae: grep "pae" /proc/cpuinfo will tell you
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| 21:54 | <nubae> hmm its cy/m
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| 21:54 | sorry
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| 21:54 | c7-m
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| 21:54 | its unsure if it is PAE or not
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| 21:55 | <stgraber> c7-m is Esther which should have pae, best to check the CPU flags though and try booting the i386 pae kernel to make sure it works
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| 21:57 | <nubae> http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/processors/c7-m_ulv/specs.jsp
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| 21:57 | I dont have the client handy
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| 21:57 | but ill check
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| 21:58 | so would u suggest i compile within the chroot specifically for closed source VIA video?
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| 21:58 | it does boot with pae
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| 21:58 | thats what we have with our fatclients
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| 21:58 | its just the video problem
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| 21:59 | in launchpad theres a mention of openchrome issues but it got closed due to time
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| 21:59 | I guess
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| 22:00 | thing is, price wise, these boxes are half the prices of the acer atom based box and seems more potent
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| 22:02 | I have reason to believe Spanish government pushed for this hardware to be made for ubuntu
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| 22:04 | but they dont much care for ltsp
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| 22:04 | only extremadura is going that route
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| 22:09 | In regards to X, I'm running a standard fatclient with various apps preinstalled but not even an lts.conf was used
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