IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 31 December 2009 (all times are UTC)
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| 08:54 | <sbalneav> Morning all!
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| 08:56 | <Gadi> !s
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| 08:56 | <ltspbot`> Gadi: "s" :: Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 08:57 | <sbalneav> Morning Gadi!!!!
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| 08:57 | <alkisg> !g
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| 08:57 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "g" :: Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 08:57 | <alkisg> easier ;)
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| 08:58 | But we should modify the bot to display more ! for users with higher karma :D
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| 08:58 | <sbalneav> lol
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| 11:26 | <markit> hi, I've debian sid and also a sid installation. My question is, to update the "ltsp client" part, do I have to chroot and aptitude update / aptitude full-upgrade? or what does ltsp-update-image do?
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| 11:26 | and also, is debian sid, ltsp server 5.1.96-1, use nfs or NDB?
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| 11:26 | (and how can I tell? is debian the only one that is still with nfs, if it is?)
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| 11:27 | <johnny> debian can use both
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| 11:27 | if you don't use nbd, you don't need update-image
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| 11:27 | is there a reason you need to update the chroot?
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| 11:27 | if it's a major change, you should just delete the chroot and make a new onew
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| 11:28 | otherwise just chroot into it and apt-get upgrade/update
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| 11:29 | <markit> johnny: I've a eeebox that does not boot in a lenny chroot installation, and wondering if an update will fix. I've a sid installation here, so I would try the update process in advance
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| 11:29 | hope that a update will take less time than a complete recreation
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| 11:29 | <johnny> well.. try
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| 11:29 | chroot and update it
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| 11:30 | <markit> I've read about a "mount -t proc none /proc" and a "mount -t proc proc /proc" in another place.. which is teh right one?
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| 11:30 | in addition, how can tell debian if use nfs or nbd?
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| 11:30 | <johnny> if you didn't set nbd, it uses nfs
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| 11:30 | <markit> I've read that ndb should perform better
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| 11:30 | <johnny> sure.. but i don't know how to enable it on debian
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| 11:31 | the place is the chroot proc..
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| 11:31 | <markit> yes
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| 11:31 | <johnny> mount -t proc non /opt/ltsp/i386/proc
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| 11:31 | none*
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| 11:31 | <markit> I've read to do so inside chroot, that's the shorter path
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| 11:31 | <sbalneav> iirc, debian has a problem with the unionfs mount, which prevents it from being able to use nbd, or has that been fixed?
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| 11:32 | <markit> johnny: so is "none" and not "proc", thanks
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| 11:32 | <johnny> it doesn't matter
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| 11:32 | you could put proc
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| 11:32 | or anything else
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| 11:32 | <markit> ah, I see
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| 11:32 | <sbalneav> The documentation has a lot of this documented.
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| 11:32 | !docs
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| 11:32 | <ltspbot`> sbalneav: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 11:33 | <sbalneav> AH bug in the docs
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| 11:33 | <markit> sbalneav: I tried a ltsp installation but since client-side usb pen drive mount was needed, we had to revert to Thinstation
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| 11:33 | <sbalneav> mount -t proc /proc /proc
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| 11:34 | <markit> do you know if has been fixed?
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| 11:34 | <sbalneav> if what's been fixed?
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| 11:34 | mounting usb drives?
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| 11:34 | that's worked for yonks
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| 11:34 | <markit> sbalneav: oh, an added '/', are you sure?
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| 11:34 | sbalneav: yes, mount client usb drivers
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| 11:36 | <sbalneav> That's worked since the 4.2 days.
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| 11:38 | <markit> sbalneav: sorry, but is not true
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| 11:38 | there have been a lot of troubles
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| 11:38 | I don't recall the details, but I had contacts with debian manteiners I've found in irc
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| 11:39 | and they confirmed the problem and that someone was (hopefully) working on it
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| 11:39 | btw, looking in the official documentatino and searching the site for "mount -t" returns only an article, not related with upgrade of chroot
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| 11:40 | <sbalneav> You're looking at the upstream docs pdf?
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| 11:41 | It's on page 73
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| 11:41 | <markit> sbalneav: ehm, no, the wiki you pointed me to
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| 11:41 | <sbalneav> Did you download the upstream doc link that's ON the wiki page?
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| 11:41 | <markit> btw, the "local media" trouble was for Windows RDP through ltsp boot of the thin client
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| 11:42 | <sbalneav> Ah, that's Gadi's domain.
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| 11:42 | <markit> sbalneav: I'm trying to find it on that page, maybe I'm blind :)
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| 11:42 | <sbalneav> Yep, you must be
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| 11:42 | Got an 82 page pdf, right?
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| 11:43 | <markit> sbalneav: no, I can't locate the pdf link
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| 11:43 | ^F what to find it?
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| 11:43 | <Gadi> you rnag?
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| 11:43 | * markit depressed | |
| 11:43 | <Gadi> er, rang?
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| 11:44 | <sbalneav> markit: you got the wiki page loaded?
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| 11:44 | !docs
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| 11:44 | <ltspbot`> sbalneav: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 11:44 | <sbalneav> ^^ that one?
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| 11:44 | <markit> Gadi: do you know if the rdp / ltsp local usb storage device has been fixed in debian (sid)?
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| 11:44 | <sbalneav> the link to the pdf is, like, THE VERY FIRST LINK on the page.
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| 11:44 | * Gadi knows not the ways of debian | |
| 11:44 | <markit> sbalneav: oh, so sorry, I was on the main page, thinking to be on your link one
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| 11:45 | <Gadi> what version of ltspfs do they use?
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| 11:45 | <sbalneav> "You can find the latest upstream documentation as a PDF here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/ltsp/files/Docs-Admin-Guide/LTSPManual.pdf/download"
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| 11:45 | <markit> 5.1.96-1
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| 11:45 | <Gadi> thats LTSP not ltspfs
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| 11:46 | <markit> 0.5.13-1
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| 11:46 | <Gadi> ah - should work
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| 11:46 | <markit> thanks a lot to you both, I will give a try
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| 11:46 | <Gadi> you need to install ltspfs in the chroot, and then redirect disk:drives=/media/root in rdesktop
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| 11:46 | <markit> I've to run now, take children to an appointment
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| 11:47 | Gadi: redirect? how is it done? are "hot plug"?
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| 11:47 | <Gadi> SCREEN_07 = "rdesktop -r disk:drives=/media/root ..... "
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| 11:47 | <markit> oh, yes, thanks :)
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| 11:48 | <Gadi> then, you should see a drives share in windows under which folders will appear for local devices
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| 11:48 | <markit> thanks a lot, see you later, and happy new year :)
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| 11:48 | <Gadi> u2
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| 11:49 | <sbalneav> HNY Gadi, just in case you disappear later :)
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| 12:14 | <_UsUrPeR_> hey all
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| 12:14 | has anybody ever set up an internal repository before? I'm having some issues
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| 12:15 | <sbalneav> I did, once, long long ago
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| 12:16 | <{aaron}> internal what repository?
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| 12:16 | <sbalneav> http://www.debian-administration.org/article/Automatic_Debian_Package_Repository_HOWTO
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| 12:16 | <_UsUrPeR_> {aaron}, internal 9.10 ubuntu repository
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| 12:17 | <{aaron}> oh. no.
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| 12:17 | <_UsUrPeR_> woop! never mind, I got it
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| 12:17 | the issue was my sources.list on the client
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| 12:17 | I had /<site>/ubuntu/dists
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| 12:17 | I needed to take out /dists
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| 12:17 | :D
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| 12:17 | <sbalneav> As with most things with the apt system, once you know the magic, things work perfectly
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| 12:17 | * _UsUrPeR_ does a dance | |
| 12:17 | <sbalneav> it's knowing the magic
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| 12:18 | _UsUrPeR_: btw, sabayon-rc2 just got released.
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| 12:18 | <_UsUrPeR_> sbalneav: ORLY?
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| 12:18 | is that for 9.10?
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| 12:18 | <sbalneav> No, upstream
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| 12:18 | <_UsUrPeR_> k
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| 12:18 | <sbalneav> but I've got an rc1 in my ppa
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| 12:18 | <{aaron}> maybe this is not the right channel but I figure you guys would be knowledgable: anybody know of good resources (FOSS software) for PXE booting thin clients to talk to MS terminal services? as far as I understand it MS doesn't provide any PXE option itself... i'm exploring turning a small windows network to thin clients (w/ FOSS/Linux of course)
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| 12:19 | <sbalneav> rc2 won't affect any ubuntu users, it just adds selinux support for our fedora friends
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| 12:19 | {aaron}: ltsp does that through rdesktop support.
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| 12:20 | You just boot ltsp, and set SCREEN_07=rdesktop
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| 12:20 | <{aaron}> sbalneav: i'd like to reuse existing fat client/desktop machines for now, so the question is, how do I get them a PXE image - do you advise just running an LTSP PXE server on the network?
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| 12:20 | i don't think i can turn the MS server into a PXE server (for free at least)
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| 12:21 | <sbalneav> Yeah, just set up an ltsp server.
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| 12:21 | <_UsUrPeR_> {aaron}: so to understand this, you want to boot a thinclient, then have it display a windows logon?
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| 12:21 | <{aaron}> (I've also considered running all the server and desktops as images in virtualbxo on a linux server...but that's pushing it)
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| 12:21 | <sbalneav> If you want stuff that runs on MS, you're on your own for that.
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| 12:21 | bbiab, lunch
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| 12:22 | <{aaron}> _UsUrPeR_: well, yeah, a logon to a Windows client OS on the network, either through Terminal Services or some other magic
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| 12:23 | <{aaron}> the shame is that this whole network and all the hardware exist to serve 1 (windows) application :6
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| 12:23 | <alkisg> ...and it doesn't run under wine?
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| 12:23 | <_UsUrPeR_> {aaron}: the best way to do that with PXE is to boot a client off LTSP, and have the terminal switch to rdesktop. It's INCREDIBLY easy to do
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| 12:23 | <{aaron}> alkisg: haha, it barely runs under windows ...
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| 12:23 | _UsUrPeR_: ok cool, thanks :)
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| 12:23 | <alkisg> {aaron}: that doesn't matter, I've seen old edu apps that run on wine but not on windows
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| 12:24 | (designed for 9x...)
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| 12:24 | <_UsUrPeR_> {aaron}: start yourself off by installing an LTSP server. 9.10 alternate is my recommendation for a server with two NICs
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| 12:24 | <{aaron}> alkisg: i'd probably run it under virtualbox before wine... there is paid support and stuff that i wouldn't want to violate (even if it doesn't make any sense)
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| 12:24 | <_UsUrPeR_> {aaron}: If you are able to finish up before 5:00PM EST, I will be able to give you some pointers.
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| 12:25 | <alkisg> {aaron}: sure, but with wine you'd be able to run it for all users, while on vbox just for one.
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| 12:25 | <{aaron}> alkisg: hmm, interesting, i'll check it out
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| 12:25 | <alkisg> ...and with much lower cpu/ram requirements. OK.
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| 12:25 | <{aaron}> _UsUrPeR_: i'm not in a position to actually start right at the moment. would I need two NICs?
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| 12:26 | <_UsUrPeR_> {aaron}: you don't need two NICs, but the alternate LTSP install for ubuntu assumes that you are running two NICs
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| 12:26 | <{aaron}> alkisg: my perception of wine is pretty bad but that is from years ago so it's probably a lot better these days
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| 12:26 | <_UsUrPeR_> {aaron}: one NIC will be for the network cloud, while the other NIC is dedicated to offering DHCP to booting clients.
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| 12:26 | <{aaron}> ultimate goal: migrate off the shitty windows server. short term goal: reduce $$$ and maintenance problems
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| 12:27 | <alkisg> {aaron}: I've been developing an edu app in Delphi for years. I used wine to port it to Linux. It's just fine, I don't need to rewrite it in a cross platform tool...
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| 12:27 | <_UsUrPeR_> If you have a single NIC, you will have to manage your outside DHCP network to direct all MAC addresses for thinclients toward the LTSP server.
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| 12:27 | <{aaron}> alkisg: not FreePascal, shame ;)
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| 12:28 | _UsUrPeR_: well, it's a closed network, not connected to the internet (yeah...), and the only machines subject to DHCP would be the clients I assume
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| 12:28 | <_UsUrPeR_> {aaron}: hmm. So the server won't be online?
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| 12:29 | <{aaron}> newp
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| 12:29 | <_UsUrPeR_> that is required fr updates and building the LTSP client image...
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| 12:29 | s/fr/for
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| 12:29 | <alkisg> Not if he uses the alternate cd
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| 12:29 | (the building part)
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| 12:29 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: you sho 'bout that?
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| 12:29 | <{aaron}> yeah, I saw a tutorial on youtube, i'll probably have to temporarily connect it, or just build the machine elsewhere
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| 12:29 | * _UsUrPeR_ capitualtes to alkisg's superior knowledge on the subject | |
| 12:30 | <alkisg> The alternate cd contains all the necessary packages for chroot building
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| 12:30 | <{aaron}> cool
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| 12:30 | <alkisg> (except for any langpacks needed etc)
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| 12:31 | <{aaron}> i will probably get a copy of the program and try to test this all out in a local virtualbox network first
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| 12:40 | <alkisg> Happy new year to all...
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| 12:46 | <_UsUrPeR_> anyone active in ehre?
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| 12:46 | err here
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| 12:47 | when running an ltsp-build-client, what sources.list is used? It should be pulling from the local repository right now, but it's not.
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| 12:52 | <sbalneav> Back from lunch
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| 12:54 | <johnny> _UsUrPeR_, not unless you told it to copy the sources..
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| 12:54 | <sbalneav> _UsUrPeR_: There's an option you'll have to pass to ltsp-build-client, --extra-dists I think, but I've had a glass of wine for lunch so don't quote me.
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| 12:54 | <johnny> it uses the default from the install
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| 12:54 | no
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| 12:54 | <sbalneav> Err
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| 12:54 | <johnny> it's some --copy-sources-list ir soemthing
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| 12:54 | <sbalneav> I had a glass of wine AT lunch
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| 12:54 | <johnny> _UsUrPeR_, ltsp-build-client --extra-help
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| 12:54 | <sbalneav> I had more than just the wine :)
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| 12:55 | * sbalneav suspects everyone thinks I just drink bum-wine for lunch :) | |
| 12:55 | <johnny> mmm
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| 12:55 | <sbalneav> Axctually
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| 12:55 | might make my sysadin job more bearable
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| 12:56 | <_UsUrPeR_> I did run it as ltsp-build-client --arch i386 --copy-sourceslist
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| 12:56 | <johnny> then it should be using it..
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| 12:56 | but did you actually look to make sure it did?
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| 12:56 | look in your chroot's sources.list
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| 12:56 | <_UsUrPeR_> still building
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| 12:56 | :P
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| 12:57 | I'll check after it's done
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| 12:58 | <johnny> we should rename that var
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| 12:58 | --copy-extrarepos or somethingg..
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| 12:58 | the name is too debianish now
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| 12:58 | <_UsUrPeR_> :)
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| 12:59 | it's detailing exactly what it does. I'm not familiar with debian nomenclature. Do they have vars named in an exacting basis like this?
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| 13:04 | <johnny> _UsUrPeR_, ltsp5 was mostly built on ubuntu.. and most of the debian/ubuntu bits have been cleaned out... but not all..
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| 13:05 | * vagrantc notes that the first distro to release with ltsp5 was not ubuntu | |
| 13:05 | <vagrantc> though it was still called muekow
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| 13:05 | <_UsUrPeR_> johnny: ahh. So is --copy-sourceslist a verbatim command from debian?
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| 13:05 | <vagrantc> that's a crazy ubuntu command
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| 13:05 | <johnny> no
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| 13:05 | it's an ltsp command to copy /etc/apt/sources.list
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| 13:06 | but.. it should be generic.. as we have similiar files in gentoo and fedora
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| 13:06 | <_UsUrPeR_> ahh
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| 13:23 | <Lns> Does anyone care to take a peek at these irc logs from yesterday ( http://logicalnetworking.net/other/LnsBotlogs/lns.log.30Dec2009 ) - do a search for "goals" and read from that line on..let me know what you think about it (communications library/socket for ltsp).. we're looking to do something like this and possibly get it included in Ubuntu 10.04 if possible..
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| 13:24 | <_UsUrPeR_> Lns: will do :)
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| 13:24 | <Lns> thanks!
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| 13:24 | <johnny> there's also telepathy for that kinda thing Lns
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| 13:24 | <_UsUrPeR_> lns: was that goals search a message from you to moldy?
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| 13:24 | <johnny> using telepathy tubes would get you a dbus channel
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| 13:25 | also.. it'd be nice to have a slimmer zeroconf lib
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| 13:25 | than avahi
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| 13:25 | by default
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| 13:25 | <Lns> hmm
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| 13:25 | <johnny> Lns, here's something else for you to chew on tho
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| 13:25 | <Lns> johnny: lemme take a look at telepathy
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| 13:25 | <johnny> http://blog.fubar.dk/?p=108
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| 13:25 | Lns, read this bit first tho.. it's a bit easier
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| 13:26 | the important part for you is after "Finally, I did a really cute hack a few weeks ago - I made Palimpsest use D-Bus over TCP/IP over SSH to speak to udisks:"
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| 13:26 | altho you should read the whole thing anyways.. it's neat
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| 13:26 | <Lns> _UsUrPeR_: yes
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| 13:26 | <johnny> anybody interested in the future of disk management on linux should read that
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| 13:28 | <Lns> johnny: would telepathy tubes be able to facilitate very fast/slim communications between computers for command+control (things like shutdown/reboot/shell commands/etc)?
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| 13:29 | we're talking about an ltsp server sending command requests to potentially hundreds of clients at a time
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| 13:29 | <johnny> pretty sure Lns
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| 13:29 | all you're doing is faciliating networked dbus
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| 13:30 | <Lns> what would be the benefit of using those versus a piggybacked ssh connection like ltspfs?
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| 13:31 | <johnny> because it's designed to do it up front?
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| 13:32 | Lns, look at the hackery done for password expiration and the like for ssh in ldm
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| 13:32 | we still don't use libssh (or whatever it is)
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| 13:32 | also
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| 13:33 | Lns, altho.. you could of course tunnel the dtube over ssh iirc
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| 13:33 | Lns, i really would like to see ltsp clients come with a daemon like avahi by default tho..
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| 13:33 | would make it easier to figure out which machine to talk to..
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| 13:34 | <sbalneav> Lns: slim HAH
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| 13:36 | johnny: I looked in to libssh
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| 13:36 | using libssh would solve the password expiry screen scraping
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| 13:37 | <Lns> hey sbalneav =) Any thoughts on this particular venture?
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| 13:37 | <sbalneav> however, libssh DOESN'T support command sockets, so we'd have to completely re-implement command sockets ourselved.
| |
| 13:38 | Yeah, good freaking luck. I look forward to the code.
| |
| 13:38 | <johnny> and that's why i thought dbus was a good idea..
| |
| 13:38 | err dtubes
| |
| 13:38 | <sbalneav> I'm going to put it plainly as I can.
| |
| 13:39 | Everbody's got lots of ideas.
| |
| 13:39 | Don't mean crap 'till someone writes some code.
| |
| 13:39 | <johnny> sometimes it takes awhile to hash out the idea ..
| |
| 13:39 | before you can write the code..
| |
| 13:39 | <sbalneav> We've been hashing out this idea for 3+ years now.
| |
| 13:40 | <johnny> sure.. but we still have trouble talking the same language on it
| |
| 13:40 | and what components should be part of it..
| |
| 13:40 | <Lns> sbalneav: well yanqui seems to think it might not be too difficult.. we already had some basic command socket stuff going under python using netcat a few months ago..
| |
| 13:40 | <sbalneav> I've been ripping apart gabriel and actually playing around with getting some code written.
| |
| 13:41 | Anything for LTSP's gonna have to be in C
| |
| 13:41 | <Lns> right, and that's what he said this one would be written in
| |
| 13:41 | <sbalneav> Not everbody's got dual core thin clients with 2 gigs of ram.
| |
| 13:41 | K, well, when I see it, I'll be a beleiver.
| |
| 13:41 | <Lns> =)
| |
| 13:41 | i understand
| |
| 13:42 | <sbalneav> People talked about how much better our lives would be if Sabayon only worked for 2+ years.
| |
| 13:42 | <Lns> well...
| |
| 13:42 | that's a bit bigger of a project, too
| |
| 13:42 | <sbalneav> Actually, no.
| |
| 13:42 | this is much bigger, and more complicated.
| |
| 13:43 | and nobody's done it yet.
| |
| 13:43 | there is
| |
| 13:43 | NO
| |
| 13:43 | NOTHING
| |
| 13:43 | <Lns> even if it's done in the fashion of ltspfs regarding ssh sockets?
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| 13:43 | <sbalneav> that currently allows you to tie multiple dbus' together
| |
| 13:43 | <Lns> (just fyi i have no clue what i'm talking about ;) mainly repeating stuff)
| |
| 13:44 | <sbalneav> ltspfs, as far as I'm concerned, shouldn't communicate over ssh, it should communicate over X atoms.
| |
| 13:44 | that way, if you tunnel the X over ssh, you get encryped ltspfs, if you use LDM_DIRECTX, then you get unencrypeted.
| |
| 13:45 | but Keith P and jammcq poo-poohed the idea, so I stopped it.
| |
| 13:45 | <Lns> but for something "simple" such as basic commands from server -> client...
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| 13:45 | dro has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:45 | <Lns> nothing high bandwidth that is
| |
| 13:47 | <sbalneav> It's a BIG problem, because what you want to do is take things off the SYSTEM bus on the thin client, and put them on the SESSION bus on the users's session on the server.
| |
| 13:47 | But only CERTAIN KINDS of messages.
| |
| 13:47 | And maybe, if you have localapps, you want to DUPLICATE messages to multiple sources.
| |
| 13:47 | think firefox as a localapp.
| |
| 13:48 | you want the memory stick to appear for a file->save image as for the thin client,
| |
| 13:48 | but you ALSO want the memory stick to appear to the open office process on the server.
| |
| 13:49 | But you DON'T want device add signals for hal, for say, the video device becoming available, to get shoved onto the session bus, because nobody cares about that but the local thin client workstation.
| |
| 13:49 | It's FIENDISHLY difficult.
| |
| 13:50 | and there's going to be LOTS of ugly, ugly edge cases.
| |
| 13:51 | <Lns> thanks for the insight sbalneav! it's much appreciated
| |
| 13:51 | <sbalneav> I know I'm sounding like a negative nellie.
| |
| 13:51 | <Lns> nah
| |
| 13:51 | * vagrantc has been pretty happy with xatoms/xproperties so far | |
| 13:51 | <Lns> you're being realistic
| |
| 13:51 | <sbalneav> But I want people to be realistic.
| |
| 13:52 | <vagrantc> alkisg's shutdown using xatoms was so much simpler than any of the other proposals.
| |
| 13:52 | <sbalneav> I keep hearing things like "DTUEBS WILL SOLVE ALL OUR PROBLEMZZZ!" or "JUST WRITE A DBUS CONNETOR DUUUDE", but it's NOT that simple.
| |
| 13:52 | sure,
| |
| 13:52 | <vagrantc> tell it like it is!
| |
| 13:53 | * vagrantc cheers on sbalneav | |
| 13:53 | <Lns> lol
| |
| 13:53 | <sbalneav> and look how much dancing we have to go through to make xatoms work.
| |
| 13:53 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i feel like we have a common grumpitude not shared by a lot of folks
| |
| 13:53 | <sbalneav> I'm getting old an pissy :)
| |
| 13:53 | <Lns> get off my lawn!
| |
| 13:53 | <sbalneav> dtubes is a great technology.
| |
| 13:54 | dbus is a great technology
| |
| 13:54 | <vagrantc> sure beats fetishizing the newest shiny thing
| |
| 13:54 | <sbalneav> but ALL THESE TECHNOLOGIES have been written with the COMPLETE IDEA of having one complete box with everything running on it locally.
| |
| 13:54 | NO ONE
| |
| 13:54 | IS THINKING
| |
| 13:54 | ABOUT THIN CLIENTS
| |
| 13:55 | anymore.
| |
| 13:55 | <Lns> remote X period
| |
| 13:55 | <sbalneav> and any of these technoligies we try to leverage/use
| |
| 13:55 | we're going to have to drag KICKING AND SCREAMING
| |
| 13:55 | into a remote X environment.
| |
| 13:56 | The stupid thing is, with the economy the way it is, and the environment the way it is, thing clients are MORE FREAKING RELAVENT than they've ever been before. But Linux has basically morphed into an OS that's almost thin-client hostile.
| |
| 13:57 | whew
| |
| 13:57 | </rant>
| |
| 13:58 | <dro> sbalneav: do you think linux has been morphed that way because developers are trying to push it to be a desktop replacement?
| |
| 13:58 | <Lns> dro: yes
| |
| 13:58 | yes yes and yes
| |
| 13:58 | <sbalneav> Not just a desktop replacement.
| |
| 13:58 | a MICROSOFT replacement.
| |
| 13:58 | We don't seem to be interested in doing something stable/workable/functional
| |
| 13:58 | <Lns> because that is peoples' main complaints - it's not windows.
| |
| 13:59 | and at the core, the issue is that people are afraid of change.
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| 13:59 | <sbalneav> the only thing that seems to count these days is:
| |
| 13:59 | WE HAVE TO LOOK/BEHAVE like windows
| |
| 13:59 | take IceWM
| |
| 13:59 | Fantastic little windowmanager
| |
| 13:59 | light
| |
| 13:59 | simple
| |
| 13:59 | low on resources
| |
| 13:59 | <Lns> case in point: http://techie-buzz.com/linux-distros/chinese-pirates-hacked-ubuntu-to-look-like-windows-xp.html
| |
| 13:59 | <sbalneav> and now, completely and utterly useless
| |
| 14:00 | <dro> i read an article on slashdot where a chinese group that in the past sold/released a ton of hacked winxp cd/software, have now switched to ubuntu but morph it so that it looks like winxp
| |
| 14:00 | <sbalneav> cause it doesn't speak dbus/policykit/blahkit/fookit.
| |
| 14:00 | <dro> LOL lns
| |
| 14:00 | <Lns> sbalneav: not useless to those who don't need all that stuff...it's not like it got worse
| |
| 14:00 | it's just on its own path
| |
| 14:01 | like us :)
| |
| 14:01 | <dro> Lns: what are the chances that we would post something about the same article lol
| |
| 14:01 | <Lns> dro: cuz it was recent news :)
| |
| 14:01 | and we all read slashdot ;)
| |
| 14:01 | <sbalneav> Lns: well, yeah, it IS useless, because now half the programs you'd want to run under it don't work correctly because they're expecting desktop DBUS integration
| |
| 14:02 | <johnny> i read it the opposite that you do..
| |
| 14:02 | <Lns> hrm
| |
| 14:02 | <johnny> i think it's a good thing to convert the programs to do that
| |
| 14:02 | talkin about afraid of change..
| |
| 14:03 | <dro> one of my customers recently demanded that i quit using linux in their network, they said it was insecure and their board members didn't like it, so I shut off the ltsp server and when I had 100+ tickets open that their systems no longer worked, I explained to the board that linux=functionality and to quit being afraid of technology
| |
| 14:03 | <Lns> heh
| |
| 14:03 | <sbalneav> johnny: converting programs only works if the tools to convert are there.
| |
| 14:03 | case in point
| |
| 14:03 | sabayon
| |
| 14:03 | <johnny> sure.. but you already found a replacement
| |
| 14:03 | <sbalneav> gksu's busted currently in lucid
| |
| 14:04 | I go to find out what can be done about this in ubuntu-devel
| |
| 14:04 | <johnny> sure..and who's fault is that?
| |
| 14:04 | one individual developer
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| 14:04 | <sbalneav> their answer, "convert to policykit"
| |
| 14:04 | OK, fine, so I go to look at policykit
| |
| 14:04 | <johnny> why didn't they just turn gksu-policykit to gksu?
| |
| 14:04 | wouldn't that have directly solved the problem?
| |
| 14:04 | <sbalneav> gksu-policykit isn't written yet.
| |
| 14:04 | it asks for the password ON THE COMMAND LINE.
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| 14:04 | <johnny> then blame the ubuntu developers for pushing
| |
| 14:05 | something before it's ready
| |
| 14:05 | different problem
| |
| 14:05 | <Lns> that's par though johnny
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| 14:05 | <sbalneav> lemme finish the story
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| 14:05 | <johnny> sbalneav, you already told the story to me didn't you? this is for somebody else's benefit?
| |
| 14:05 | <sbalneav> so, I go to look for policykit bindings for python
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| 14:05 | for the other people listening
| |
| 14:05 | * Lns is listening | |
| 14:05 | <johnny> Lns, well.. it has been par.. it doesn't have to be
| |
| 14:06 | it's ubuntu that gets the bad PR flack for it
| |
| 14:06 | <sbalneav> there AREN'T any policykit bindings for python "How do I convert to policykit then?" I ask
| |
| 14:06 | "Well, either talk raw dbus to PK, or if you'd like to write bindings....?" is the answer.
| |
| 14:07 | So, FreeDesktop.org is pushing solutions to problems that THEY HAVEN;T EVEN FULLY WRITTEN yet.
| |
| 14:07 | this isn't Ubuntu's problem specifically, it's endemic to Linux, at the moment.
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| 14:08 | <johnny> freedesktop.org isn't pushing anything..
| |
| 14:08 | blame fedora :)
| |
| 14:08 | <Lns> sounds like FD needs to pay more attention to the community as a whole?
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| 14:08 | <johnny> Lns, it's fedora that makes the freedesktop specs often
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| 14:08 | then they push them as solutions in fedora
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| 14:08 | or rather.. in gnome
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| 14:08 | <sbalneav> Well, all the major distros cite "FREEDESKTOP.ORG SEZ...", so who's pushing it then?
| |
| 14:08 | SOMEONE's pushing it.
| |
| 14:09 | <Lns> So the tower gets taller and taller, until it falls over eventually
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| 14:09 | linux is NOT a monolith
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| 14:09 | <johnny> Lns, i don't think it's quite that bad.. it did get us dbus , shared-mime-info, and a bunch of other important tools
| |
| 14:09 | <Lns> and should never be treated as such
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| 14:09 | <johnny> i feel like folks are looking at teh wrong places that are causing the problems here..
| |
| 14:09 | especially folks who don't see the fedora -> fdo -> gnome cycle
| |
| 14:10 | <Lns> it's hard when you have increasingly fewer bodies making decisions for an entire software ecosystem
| |
| 14:10 | <johnny> Lns, fdo is for defacto specs, not actual specs.. ..
| |
| 14:10 | which is what is happening..
| |
| 14:10 | <Lns> right
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| 14:10 | <sbalneav> johnny: ok, so how do we solve it?
| |
| 14:10 | <Lns> people are treating them as actual specs though
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| 14:10 | <johnny> Lns, and i think it's gave us alot of good
| |
| 14:10 | most of the time
| |
| 14:10 | <Lns> not arguing that johnny =)
| |
| 14:11 | <sbalneav> I'd argue the opposite.
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| 14:11 | <johnny> sbalneav, for one.. make sure you're in touch with people like davidz
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| 14:11 | <Lns> but it's causing a lot of harm to those they aren't considering
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| 14:11 | <johnny> and the gnome developers on gnome-hackers
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| 14:11 | <sbalneav> compared to 5 years ago, I have MORE problems with Linux than I used to.
| |
| 14:11 | <johnny> many of them who are fedora developers..
| |
| 14:11 | <sbalneav> WAY more.
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| 14:11 | <johnny> sbalneav, except you couldn't do half the stuff you can do now..
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| 14:11 | <Lns> with more functionality comes greater complexity
| |
| 14:11 | <johnny> without lots of cli stuff
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| 14:11 | yep
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| 14:11 | <sbalneav> BUT THE STUFF I COULD DO WORKED>
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| 14:11 | <johnny> lol
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| 14:11 | <Lns> hehe...i see that point well
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| 14:11 | <sbalneav> Now, I can do lots of things
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| 14:11 | <johnny> plenty of stuff i want to do is much better now
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| 14:12 | like gstreamer..
| |
| 14:12 | <sbalneav> all at 80% functionality.
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| 14:12 | <johnny> i <3 gstreamer
| |
| 14:12 | we need more actual developers to keep the conversion train rolling then
| |
| 14:12 | and more developers who care about thin clients who work on softwar relevant to thin clients
| |
| 14:12 | <sbalneav> right, and that brings us around to my origial comment.
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| 14:12 | <Lns> LTSP needs to be heard more in the community, we need exposure
| |
| 14:12 | <sbalneav> ideal walk, code talks.
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| 14:12 | <johnny> Lns, ... heard doesn't help..
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| 14:12 | <Lns> we are a good case for consideration of "alternate" uses of linux
| |
| 14:12 | <sbalneav> ideas, sorry
| |
| 14:13 | <johnny> Lns, actually being involved in developing the programs that affect ltsp..
| |
| 14:13 | that's what helps
| |
| 14:13 | <Lns> it all helps johnny
| |
| 14:13 | <johnny> or indoctrinating
| |
| 14:13 | Lns, as sbalneav ideas walk, code talks
| |
| 14:13 | <Lns> i understand...for those who can't code, they need to do something
| |
| 14:13 | <johnny> Lns, then they need to talk directly to the coders
| |
| 14:13 | <Lns> ideas only form into code when they are ideas first
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| 14:13 | robbie_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:14 | <Lns> right
| |
| 14:14 | <johnny> and that's what's not happening
| |
| 14:14 | <Lns> which is what i'm doing right now ;)
| |
| 14:14 | <johnny> no.. you're talkin to the wrong people
| |
| 14:14 | you need to talk to the people like davidz
| |
| 14:14 | and warren
| |
| 14:14 | warren can make some stuff happen
| |
| 14:14 | he told me to yell for him we feel redhat is running roughshod over the community process
| |
| 14:14 | <Lns> how about we e-mail them this log?
| |
| 14:15 | <johnny> which is what happened when hal first came about
| |
| 14:15 | Lns, .. no.. please.. no logs :)
| |
| 14:15 | <Lns> heh
| |
| 14:15 | <johnny> take the logs and make them coherent points
| |
| 14:15 | <Lns> i can write blogs about this, though i might be inaccurate to some point...i have ideas and ideals for linux which i think i share with all of you guys
| |
| 14:16 | <johnny> Lns, so.. one good thing to do.. would bring more redhat folks into ltsp
| |
| 14:16 | <Lns> brb..
| |
| 14:17 | <johnny> Lns, but who is your blog audience?
| |
| 14:17 | that is teh question..
| |
| 14:18 | too many people write blogs about problems that just gather a bunch of ill formed people.. and folks who are scared of "bloat"
| |
| 14:19 | <Lns> johnny: the point is to write a blog and send it to the people who can make a difference (warren/davidz/etc)
| |
| 14:19 | <johnny> or.. instead
| |
| 14:19 | talk to them directly.. so you are writing exactly the truth
| |
| 14:19 | and then write a blog about the result..
| |
| 14:20 | <Lns> whatever though... i can write a blog then blog about talks with them about it too
| |
| 14:21 | the important thing is to communicate the ideas
| |
| 14:21 | so before i start on this in a couple of minutes, pushing my appointment to do some work at a school for this, what are our main points here?
| |
| 14:22 | That Linux/X/Gnome are getting too "single desktop" centric?
| |
| 14:22 | that no attention is being paid to the roots of what X is supposed to be capable of?
| |
| 14:22 | that developers are forgetting why *nix has survived longer than most any other OS and trying to mimic OSes that tend to pay most attention to market share?
| |
| 14:23 | That people are too interested in ease of use rather than real power and flexibility with technology?
| |
| 14:25 | <dro> sounds like you nailed it to me
| |
| 14:27 | <Lns> Let me quote "In the beginning there was the command line"...
| |
| 14:27 | <johnny> Lns, i don't think that is the right way to phrase it..
| |
| 14:27 | <Lns> (I love this excerpt)
| |
| 14:27 | <johnny> nor do i think it is true
| |
| 14:27 | nothing is exactly single desktop centric on purpose
| |
| 14:28 | it's not like they tried to do it
| |
| 14:28 | it's just a consequence of the development cycle atm until things stabilize a bit more
| |
| 14:28 | what i'm seeing, is more things going back to the roots
| |
| 14:29 | via the removal of hal
| |
| 14:29 | and the new xorg stuff
| |
| 14:29 | <Lns> http://pastebin.com/m260ddd77
| |
| 14:29 | johnny: i agree with you as well...these new technologies are very immature still imo, obviously since there are basic issues such as backward compatibility
| |
| 14:30 | <johnny> it can easily happen when you try to do too much in a 6 month cyle
| |
| 14:30 | <Lns> heh
| |
| 14:30 | <johnny> but it's hard not to do 6 months either.. as people want more updates :)
| |
| 14:31 | look wat happened with the kernel before they kept a rolling 2.6
| |
| 14:31 | and the 2.{odd,even}
| |
| 14:31 | you had tons of custom patched kernels, everybody had them
| |
| 14:31 | patches that never made it upstream, because by the time they could be applied.. they no longer applied :)
| |
| 14:32 | <Lns> maybe a point is to cut back on drastic changes even though you have a 6mo. cycle...
| |
| 14:32 | <johnny> because the merge window was too long
| |
| 14:32 | sure.. but the distros can't choose that
| |
| 14:32 | <Lns> exercise some restraint
| |
| 14:32 | <johnny> for example..
| |
| 14:32 | how many upstream developers does canonical actually employ?
| |
| 14:32 | compared to redhat
| |
| 14:32 | it seems obvious as to why redhat is driving the train
| |
| 14:33 | <Lns> that is an illusion
| |
| 14:33 | <johnny> huh?
| |
| 14:33 | <Lns> gnu/linux is outside of any single body
| |
| 14:33 | <johnny> upstream to gnome especially ...
| |
| 14:33 | sure..but this is about what sfotware is available by the time distros package the software
| |
| 14:33 | you're mostly right
| |
| 14:34 | but not about gnome
| |
| 14:34 | and the kernel
| |
| 14:34 | the rest of the software.. yes.. kernel and gnome..no
| |
| 14:34 | and infra freedesktop stuff..
| |
| 14:35 | Lns, technologies like network manager and policykit are mainly developed by redhat developers
| |
| 14:35 | <Lns> it seems as though debian is the one entity that really seems to humble this mentality
| |
| 14:35 | <johnny> or were in their intiial
| |
| 14:35 | initial phases*
| |
| 14:36 | <Lns> so redhat starts these projects then drops them
| |
| 14:36 | <johnny> drops?
| |
| 14:36 | <Lns> to let the community seal the leaks
| |
| 14:36 | <johnny> dan williams still works on networkmanager
| |
| 14:36 | davidz still works on policykit
| |
| 14:37 | it's not that they drop anything.. it's just that they have other responsibilities too
| |
| 14:37 | so some stuff gets left by the wayside
| |
| 14:37 | <Lns> where are the rest of the developers ? why are there only single people doing this that affect so many?
| |
| 14:37 | what needs to happen for redhat to collaborate better?
| |
| 14:37 | <johnny> because everybody else is busy? not enough programmers?
| |
| 14:37 | <Lns> pssh
| |
| 14:37 | <johnny> Lns, imo canonical should put some people to work on helping faciliate transistions
| |
| 14:37 | then you wouldn't have these problems
| |
| 14:38 | <Lns> bah
| |
| 14:38 | <johnny> i'm sure ogr a would disagree tho..
| |
| 14:38 | <Lns> we're looking too much up to these companies
| |
| 14:38 | <johnny> Lns, few other people have the time and knowledge to do some of the heavy stuff
| |
| 14:38 | <Lns> we're losing the forest for the trees
| |
| 14:38 | <johnny> somebody has to get paid to do it right sometimes
| |
| 14:38 | right?
| |
| 14:38 | you don't do what you do for free do ya? :)
| |
| 14:39 | all the time at least :)
| |
| 14:39 | <Lns> but when you put paid people in control of a free ecosystem, then it becomes a paid ecosystem.
| |
| 14:39 | <johnny> Lns, one solution.. would be to setup a consulting company to help
| |
| 14:39 | Lns, look at collabora
| |
| 14:39 | the people behind telepathy
| |
| 14:39 | and gstreamer a bit as well
| |
| 14:39 | * Lns owns a consulting company | |
| 14:40 | <johnny> sure.. but who's paying you to do upstream work ..
| |
| 14:40 | you're an integrator.. that's different
| |
| 14:40 | altho some of your stuff does go upstream.. it's not the main point.. it's to deploy what is already written
| |
| 14:40 | right?
| |
| 14:40 | <Lns> people pay me to integrate...i use that money to help with upstream work
| |
| 14:40 | <johnny> sure.. but one thing would be to get paid directly for upstream work
| |
| 14:41 | <Lns> that's the wrong method imo
| |
| 14:41 | i know what you mean though
| |
| 14:41 | <johnny> yet it's not
| |
| 14:41 | collabora is doing very well
| |
| 14:41 | and i'm happy with what they have came up
| |
| 14:41 | and that spanish company who did alot of the other gstreamer work
| |
| 14:41 | <Lns> and look at *us*
| |
| 14:42 | #ltsp
| |
| 14:42 | <johnny> Lns, most of these projects (to my eye) seem written by companies collaborating
| |
| 14:42 | sure.. it's actually very similiar with ltsp :)
| |
| 14:42 | <Lns> exactly.
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| 14:42 | <johnny> to what i just said :)
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| 14:42 | <Lns> so we nee....*rides the wave*
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| 14:42 | <johnny> except our environment involves elements of all the other ones
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| 14:42 | that's the major problem here... our issues are with everything they do :)
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| 14:43 | <Lns> so we need to become closer with all of the upstream projects.
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| 14:43 | <johnny> yes
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| 14:43 | <Lns> we need to communicate more with them
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| 14:43 | <johnny> yes
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| 14:43 | <Lns> and vise versa obviously
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| 14:43 | <johnny> sure.. but first we have to convince them that we matter
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| 14:43 | <Lns> and we do that through evidence of our "client base"...we need to talk their talk as well
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| 14:44 | we need an actual body that represents the LTSP community as a whole
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| 14:44 | <johnny> Lns, for example.. ibet you could convince warren to get together some of the redhat employees that are relevant to our issues :)
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| 14:44 | <Lns> that would be great
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| 14:44 | but who's going to talk to them about our issues?
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| 14:45 | we have no hierarchy
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| 14:45 | <johnny> we don't need one
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| 14:45 | <johnny> just a list of teh issues we have
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| 14:46 | and how we might solve them given our constraints
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| 14:46 | <Lns> how do we compile an all encompassing list that gives a voice to everyone involved without much assumption?
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| 14:46 | <johnny> Lns, for example.. i suggested something like having avahi like daemon included by default in ltsp
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| 14:47 | all encompassing isn't as important up front.. as solving some of te issues solve others
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| 14:47 | <Lns> true
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| 14:47 | <johnny> so.. perhaps we might see a way to slim the daemon by 2/3rds or something..
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| 14:47 | or even just find a way to split the lib into a min version..
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| 14:47 | whatever..
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| 14:50 | Lns, so.. more directly modifying upstream projects to fit our needs.. while fitting the original ones..
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| 14:50 | instead of dealing with what they push out
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| 14:51 | Lns, so.. to summarize.. a proactive position vs a reactionary one
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| 14:52 | <Lns> sure
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| 14:53 | but to educate upstreams to our existence is necessary as well, so modifications aren't always necessary as they already cater to more of a generic environment
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| 14:53 | removes backpedal
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| 14:53 | both are necessary
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| 14:55 | <Lns> we need to be included in their "spheres of consciousness" so we can avoid these predicaments in the first place
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| 14:55 | and we can adopt new technologies as they come out more readily
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| 14:56 | <Lns> the problem is, their spheres revolve around established entities more than niche communities like us
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| 14:56 | so, imho, a good thing to think about might be to create an established entity for the ltsp community, so we can be represented better
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| 14:58 | we all sort of revolve around the ideals of what has always been important in *nix
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| 14:58 | <Lns> inter-compatibility and flexibility based on small tools
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| 14:59 | <johnny> i don't think tha'ts necessarily changed.. only the names and the tools :)
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| 14:59 | <Lns> look at polkit
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| 14:59 | <johnny> look at hal
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| 14:59 | hal appeared.. it was huge
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| 14:59 | got huger
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| 14:59 | then got split
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| 14:59 | same thing will happen to polkit
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| 15:00 | same thing that happened to xorg
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| 15:00 | <Lns> my point is, people come up with these huge elaborate solutions that they can't handle by themselves, and the result is a huge growing pain for the community at large
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| 15:00 | <johnny> eventually the same will happen to the linxu kernel itself
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| 15:00 | <Lns> and it's not always necessary - look at us for example
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| 15:00 | <johnny> eventually the linux kernel will be split, mark my words.. it'll end up as some sort of micro kernel
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| 15:00 | <Lns> we don't do anything huge and elaborate
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| 15:01 | i agree
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| 15:01 | <johnny> Lns, well is more peeps worked on polkit from the beginning.. it could have been cleaned during development
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| 15:01 | polkit was meant to solve a problem
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| 15:01 | the gnome team accepted it as it was
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| 15:01 | and that's how it went down
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| 15:02 | <Lns> so, if ltsp community was closely tied to the gnome community, we could have spoken up and said "hey! what about xyz...that's gonna be a HUGE issue."
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| 15:03 | <Lns> imo we have to remind everyone else about why it's not always a good idea to adopt early and fix bugs later
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| 15:04 | we represent some pretty extensive and large networks of computers that people depend on
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| 15:06 | ltsp networks are normally very mission critical (hospitals for example)...we can't be directed by some guy at RH that says "well xyz software sure seems like it can fix stuff, as long as everyone adopts it!" and throws it in Fedora for people to trip over
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| 15:06 | <johnny> Lns, i really doubt you'll have good luck with that
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| 15:06 | better at making them right in the first place..
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| 15:06 | <Lns> exactly.
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| 15:08 | <johnny> and it involves people getting involved nearer the beginning..
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| 15:09 | <Lns> yep
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| 15:11 | it also involves people exercising consideration for an entire ecosystem instead of their own distro
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| 15:11 | to realize their actions affect everyone, just like dropping a pebble in a pond
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| 15:12 | it's so interesting to see how far linux has come
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| 15:12 | we've become this paradoxical entity, representing an entire system as well as many individual systems
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| 15:14 | and to me anyway, ltsp is in between the two...we're like the ether that facilitates an interconnectedness of individual systems, but outside the main system
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| 16:35 | <Ahmuck> http://www.helpmysql.org/
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| 16:44 | <jelly-bean> thin client boots but when you try to login it just comes back to the login screen
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| 16:44 | is there an error log i can find somewherE?
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| 16:48 | <Lns> For those interested: http://blog.logicalnetworking.net/index.php/lnsblogs/my-viewpoint-of-the-ltsp-project-and-cor?blog=5
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| 16:48 | jelly-bean: sure you're using the right username/password?
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| 16:49 | jelly-bean: have you changed IP addresses of the LTSP server?
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| 16:49 | <jelly-bean> well we just created 4 users and none of them work
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| 16:50 | trying a fake user to see if its a dif. response
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| 16:50 | doesnt matter what we type same result
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| 16:50 | it goes to the black terminal then restarts the gdm
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| 16:52 | on we have a read-only filesystem
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| 16:52 | it must be the way we setup our nfs
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| 16:53 | <Lns> could be..have you checked server logs?
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| 17:08 | <Lns> johnny: you wanna send that link along to davidv and warren? :)
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| 17:08 | <jelly-bean> nope that wasnt' teh prob
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| 17:08 | Lns: where are the server logs
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| 17:09 | <Lns> jelly-bean: /var/log
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| 17:09 | <jelly-bean> nothing is really showing up
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| 17:10 | daemon.log and syslog have stuff
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| 17:10 | but its just like ... here i'll pastebin
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| 17:10 | <Lns> jelly-bean: did you happen to change your server IP?
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| 17:10 | <jelly-bean> pastebin.com/d4640855a
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| 17:10 | Lns since when? yes possibly
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| 17:11 | <Lns> jelly-bean: did you run ltsp-update-sshkeys after you changed it?
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| 17:12 | those logs don't show anything relevant i don't think
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| 17:13 | <jelly-bean> ok just ran that cmd on serverand restarted thinclient
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| 17:13 | but same result
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| 17:14 | does hardware matter
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| 17:14 | server is running a quad core
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| 17:14 | the clients are duo and single core
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| 17:15 | <Lns> you're running nfs you said?
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| 17:15 | <jelly-bean> ya
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| 17:15 | well technically
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| 17:16 | xenserver + nfs
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| 17:16 | <Lns> k
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| 17:16 | <jelly-bean> and ubuntu ltsp is a domU
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| 17:16 | so ubuntu shouldnt know the dif
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| 17:16 | and the ltsp server is working
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| 17:16 | ah rebuilding the client solved it
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| 17:16 | rebuilding the image*
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| 17:16 | <Lns> hrm..well in my exp. the only things that make ldm restart like that is either a bad password or needing to ltsp-update-sshkeys
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| 17:17 | if you're running nfs you don't need to ltsp-update-image...
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| 17:17 | <jelly-bean> no the ubuntu ltsp server is running in a virtualized env
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| 17:17 | it doesnt know anything about nfs
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| 17:18 | its the emulator that is using nfs
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| 17:21 | <Lns> oh
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| 17:22 | well then run ltsp-update-image after ltsp-update-sshkeys, then reboot the client
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| 17:22 | <jelly-bean> ok next q
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| 17:22 | security and cloning user profiles
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| 17:22 | i dont want users getting into other user's stuff
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| 17:22 | i guess this falls under general linux admin
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| 17:25 | <Lns> check out sabayon, specifically sbalneav's ppa (he's lead dev on that) for user profile management
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| 17:34 | <Lns> Happy new year all!! I'm outta heeeeere
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| 17:34 | Lns has quit IRC | |
| 17:37 | <sbalneav> Evening all
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| 17:40 | * vagrantc waves | |
| 17:44 | * ogra wishes a happy 2010 ! | |
| 17:45 | <ogra> yay tim,ezones
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| 17:47 | alkisg has joined #ltsp | |
| 17:49 | <alkisg> Happy new year to all from Greece :)
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| 17:58 | <sbalneav> alkisg: Ευτυχισμένο το Νέο Έτος
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| 17:59 | (or so google translate tells me)
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| 17:59 | <alkisg> Why thank you, that was a perfect translation :)
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| 17:59 | * sbalneav takes the babel fish out of his ear | |
| 18:00 | <alkisg> Heh, another Douglas Adams reader... :)
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| 18:01 | I really enjoyed all the 5 books in that series
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| 18:05 | <sbalneav> The world lost a great author, with a very keen insight into the human condition.
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| 18:06 | heh
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| 18:06 | The Boghog is the only native animal of planet NowWhat, "all other having long ago died of despair".
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| 18:10 | There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
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| 18:10 | There is another theory which states that this has already happened.
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| 22:39 | <cyberorg> Happy New Year folks :)
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| 22:40 | <sbalneav> Happy new year!
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| 22:45 | <stgraber> still 15 minutes to go here ;)
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| 22:50 | <cyberorg> stgraber, then what you you doing on IRC, you should be out having fun!!
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| 22:50 | <sbalneav> We're sad, sad people :)
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| 23:02 | <stgraber> yeah, 2010 ! Still an hour to go for sbalneav though ;)
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| 23:02 | Sarten-X has quit IRC | |
| 23:02 | <sbalneav> stgraber: Bon Annee!
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| 23:03 | <stgraber> sbalneav: merci
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| 23:03 | <sbalneav> Whoops
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| 23:03 | Sorry
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| 23:03 | Bonne
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| 23:03 | My french is tres rusty :)
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| 23:04 | <stgraber> hehe, no problem, that grammar mistake is easily understandable from an english speaker ;)
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