IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Request log from specific day:

Channel log from 2 December 2009 (all times are UTC)

00:37	alkisg has quit IRC
00:38	johnny has left #ltsp
00:38	johnny has joined #ltsp
02:12	johnny has quit IRC
02:19	mikkel has joined #ltsp
02:30	Selveste1 has quit IRC
02:38	alkisg has joined #ltsp
02:57	alkisg1 has joined #ltsp
03:00	alkisg has quit IRC
03:09	alkisg1 is now known as alkisg
03:37	rjune has quit IRC
03:59	Sarten-X has joined #ltsp
04:00	alkisg has quit IRC
04:45	alibaba has joined #ltsp
04:45	alkisg has joined #ltsp
04:46	nubae has joined #ltsp
04:49	<alibaba> Hello, I am totally new to LTSP. I use OpenSuSE 11.1 (32bit) on my test server and I have connected one VIA PC3500G mainboard to the LAN. Actually I get an IP-address assignes, the boot menue appears, and the boot process begins, but it hangs where the config is retrieved. It ends up in config.default, then waits a minute and tries again ...
04:49	Can somebody, please guide me?
04:51	<Appiah> stuck at pxe boot for the client?
04:51	(if I understand correctly)
04:52	<alibaba> The client loops in the second stage, where it already booted some part of Linux and wants to retrieve the config file.
04:53	It starts with full mac address, then cuts off the last char and tries again,...
04:54	As I am working on a production server (I have no other one), I am a bit scaried about making some bigger experiments.
04:55	<alkisg> alibaba: maybe you have another dhcp server in your network?
04:55	If so, you should define kiwiserver as a kernel parameter...
04:55	(or just turn off the second dhcp server...)
04:56	<alibaba> Nono, I surely have only one DHCP server.
04:56	<alkisg> cyberorg: ^^
04:58	alibaba: I meant this one: http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP/Troubleshooting search for kiwiserver in that page.
04:58	<alibaba> I did the 1-click installation of KIWI LTSP. I get the right IP-Address assigned (from DHCP), and then it shows the boot menu, so it already talks to the tftp server.
04:58	<Appiah> suse has a boot menu O_o ooooooo!
04:59	<alkisg> Also, there's a seperate channel for opensuse/ltsp in #kiwi or #kiwiltsp (i'm not sure which of the two)
04:59	<Appiah> yet to try suse ltsp
04:59	<alkisg> Well it's really easy to create a graphical pxe menu :)
05:00	I also have such a boot menu in my schools, with choices to boot localy or from a recovery CD etc etc
05:00	<alibaba> No, you mis-understand. I get this textmode menu (the text is on the server in /srv/tftpboot/message-ltsp
05:01	There I choose "kiwi-ltsp" and the boot process starts.
05:03	<alkisg> alibaba: do other clients work?
05:03	<alibaba> This is my first one and my first try in my life.
05:04	<alkisg> Well, to me it sounds like it can't locate the kiwiserver... (that's on the second stage, after the kernel boots)
05:05	But better ask in #kiwi as the technology is a little different...
05:09	<alibaba> Ha, it cannot locate the server tftp.hantsch.wien. The server name is not tftp, it is "goliath". WHere do I configure that?
05:10	<alkisg> See in that link I posted above, I think it's there...
05:29	Selveste1 has joined #ltsp
05:32	<alibaba> alkisg: It tries to contact "tftp.<mylocaldomain>" first, then uses 10.0.0.3 (this is the correct IP of my server). I would like to change "tftp" -> "goliath" as this is my server's name, but it should also work with the IP?
05:33	Then It tries to locate a config file by reducing the appended MAC address, finally it tries config.default, waits one minute, and retries the KIWI part then.
05:33	<alkisg> alibaba: I've only seen opensuse once, and it uses much different technology than the Ubuntu I currently use, so I can't help you much there... better ask in #kiwi...
05:34	<alibaba> Problem: There seems to be nobody present.
05:34	<alkisg> Well... that's why I use Ubuntu, more people there :D
05:34	<alibaba> I would never touch ubuntu again in my life. One try was enough.
05:35	<alkisg> Heh... sure those are personal choices for each one
05:35	I just think that most people here don't know about the kiwi technology enough
05:35	Try to find cyberorg either here or in #kiwi..
05:38	ftherese has quit IRC
05:38	<alibaba> Maybe this helps: The last lines are...
05:38	Registering new network client ...
05:39	Client registered <MAC address>
05:39	Waiting for configuration...
05:39	-> Then it waits ~ 1 minute and then it retries.
05:39	<alkisg> nubae: the ltsp log bot has been down for a week... :)
05:47	jetienne has joined #ltsp
05:47	<jetienne> q. do you guys use nbd ? network block device
05:49	alexqwesa has quit IRC
05:50	ftherese has joined #ltsp
05:52	Selveste1 has quit IRC
05:53	Selveste1 has joined #ltsp
05:59	alexqwesa has joined #ltsp
06:02	vicd has quit IRC
06:08	<jetienne> a rather quiet channel :)
06:09	<ogra> jetienne, depends which distro you use ... some use nbd, some dont
06:09	<alkisg> jetienne: yeah, it's quiet this hour... have any problems with nbd?
06:10	<jetienne> ogra: currently im not useing any at the moment, just looking for now
06:10	alkisg: when is it more active ?
06:10	<alkisg> Erm, when the clients boot...
06:10	<jetienne> ogra: which ones use ndb ?
06:10	<ogra> nbd is a lot faster than nfs but has some usability disadvantages
06:10	ubuntu
06:11	<alkisg> jetienne: it's NBD (network block device) are you talking about that or something else?
06:11	<ogra> and i think opensuse with their wrapped kiwi ltsp
06:11	<jetienne> alkisg: yep this is the one im talking about
06:11	ogra: ok thanks
06:12	<alibaba> Hi! Can somebody, please, help me with kiwi-ltsp?
06:12	<jetienne> alkisg: so the good time is more the us timezone ?
06:12	<ogra> alibaba, ask in #kiwi-ltsp
06:13	<alibaba> less activity than here.
06:13	<ogra> alibaba, kiwi doesnt use any of the default commands to maintain the clients
06:13	<alkisg> jetienne: yes, us mornings....
06:13	<ogra> so not many ltsp people know anything about it
06:14	<alibaba> Will it be easier to use the standard ltsp instead of the kiwi-ltsp? Meanwhile I get a bit upset on this.
06:14	<Appiah> define easy =/
06:14	I thought opensuse had some kind demo-ready-on-usbstick that works out of the box without installing
06:15	called life or something
06:15	<alibaba> I do what somebody tells me (or I follow step-by-step a manual), and then it simply WORKS.
06:15	<Appiah> for testing ltsp on suse I'd bet that's the one to use
06:15	<alkisg> All are easy to setup. It's just that more people know about Debian/Ubuntu to help you if something doesn't...
06:15	<alibaba> I don't want to play, I want to install and use. So no USB stick with some mionimized images.
06:15	<alkisg> (here)
06:15	<Appiah> its not mini
06:15	<alibaba> It must run on a fully blown up host.
06:16	<Appiah> well then again I should talk to much about it since I have yet to try it or kiwi-ltsp
06:16	should not*
06:17	Ubuntu has a alternate LTSP install
06:18	Suse "easy" thing : http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Live , Ubuntu "easy" thingy : http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/downloadmirrors (Alternate cd , choose LTSP on setup)
06:18	<ogra> !ubuntu
06:19	<ltspbot> ogra: "ubuntu" :: a Debian based GNU/Linux distrubution that includes a Ubuntu specific version of LTSP. It can be found at http://www.ubuntulinux.org. to install ltsp on ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
06:19	<ogra> just see the last link in the bots reply
06:19	<Appiah> got a trigger for the suse one?
06:19	!suse
06:19	<ltspbot> Appiah: "suse" :: You can find out about openSUSE's LTSP5 implementation at: http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP
06:19	<ogra> just note that you will likely not get as much support for suse here
06:20	simply because they dont use plain ltsp and you need special config and commands
06:25	<alibaba> I threw this crap out now.
06:25	<Appiah> :D
06:25	<alibaba> Really, if there is to help available and I have to such out everything off my fingertips, this is too risky.
06:26	<ogra> well, their livecd/usb key approach is pretty cool ...
06:26	<Appiah> I dont like "outofthebox" stuff on ltsp . good idea for demo , true
06:26	<ogra> as long as you dont want to configure anything and everything just works the suse thing might be fine
06:26	<Appiah> but I think you end up with bloat
06:27	<ogra> at the point where you want to start configuring or customizing it gets tricky
06:27	yeah, it defiantely adds some bloat
06:27	<Appiah> if you build it up you get a better understanding of the components
06:27	<alibaba> Might be. But I want to use this in an office. And therefore I need something that definitely works without endless fiddleing in configs.
06:27	<Appiah> instead of having something "just work" and when its not working you have no idea on what to do
06:28	thin clients for browsing or what alibaba ?
06:28	<alibaba> Right. Therefore _useful_ documentation should exist.
06:28	<ogra> !docs
06:28	<ltspbot> ogra: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
06:29	<alibaba> No, the TCs shall be full workstatios. Full KDE 3.5 or 4 must run for all clients.
06:29	<ogra> ubuntu debian and fedora comply to 100% to these upstream docs
06:29	and ubuntu has a lot additional documantation under https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
06:29	<Appiah> alibaba: oh , not gnome?
06:29	what kind of applications are they gonna use and how many clients?
06:31	<alibaba> As I said, this is no toy, this is powerusage. 4-5 users (one on the host itself) use KDE and usual office stuff. (OpenOffice, Firefox, kmail, ...)
06:32	The host will be a AMD64 Phenom2 X4 with 8GB RAM, this will be plenty enough.
06:32	<Appiah> openoffice,firefox,kmail does not sound like "powerusage"
06:32	to me
06:32	sounds like everyday tasks
06:32	<alibaba> No. But it must be fast.
06:32	<Appiah> ofcourse
06:33	<alibaba> And because this are former Windows users, gnome is no option.
06:33	(too different)
06:33	<alkisg> Huh?
06:33	<Appiah> oh ?
06:33	please tell me more
06:33	<alkisg> My students at school preferred gnome over kde...
06:33	<Appiah> about that, very intressting!
06:33	Never heard that argument for Gnome vs KDE
06:34	<alibaba> I (for myself) don't get warm with gnome. I prefer KDE (in style of KDE 3.5).
06:34	<alkisg> And you'll stay in the past? ::)
06:34	<Appiah> I have not used KDE in a long time , but it works as good/bad as gnome for me! :D
06:34	<alibaba> Gnome surely is not the future? :)
06:35	<alkisg> KDE on some distros has some integration problems with LTSP, you might want to keep that in mind.
06:35	(I meant 3.5 vs 4)
06:35	<alibaba> Well, it looks more like Win, so it is easier for win users.
06:35	<Appiah> does suse use KDE or Gnome as default?
06:35	<alibaba> What I choose. It offers both at setup.
06:36	<Appiah> I see
06:36	then I assume kiwi-ltsp should not have a problem running KDE
06:37	<alibaba> I presume that LTSP can export/use any kind of graphical desktop?
06:38	At least it suggests that?
06:38	<Appiah> well like alkisg wrote there are some issues in KDE
06:39	Dunno what they are but I'd like to try openbox and similar one day
06:39	<alibaba> I was told ~2 weeks ago: LTSP is much better than usual thin clients (with embedded linux), because they are cheaper and more flexible. And they have no probem with KDE at all. -- Hmm what shall I believe now?
06:41	I understodd it in this way: I have a ready setup host, add ltsp, and then I can use multiple screens for multiple users. Meanwhile I get the impression that this ends in endless config issues.
06:41	<alkisg> The config "issues" are mainly for optimization. The default setup should be fine for such small office usage.
06:42	E.g. people run LTSP with thousands of clients.
06:42	<alibaba> Ok. Fine.
06:43	<Appiah> the configs are not always LTSP related but more General Linux server configs
06:43	<alibaba> I installed KIWI and experienced that the TC starts booting, then hands when talking to "Kiwi". Actually nobody could help me. :(
06:43	<Appiah> and people have a hard time drawing a line between , whats general stuff and whats LTSP
06:43	<alkisg> alibaba: yeah, not many people know about kiwi here.
06:43	It's not part of ltsp (the kiwi technology)
06:43	<Appiah> Dont Suse have a channel for that and/or forum?
06:44	<alkisg> Yes, #kiwi-ltsp, we told him that...
06:44	<alibaba> And on #opensuse-kiwi it is quies like in a grave.
06:44	quiet...
06:44	<alkisg> Well, that's your distro of choice... :)
06:44	<Appiah> kiwi-ltsp is like a LTSP fork
06:44	should you think of it like that
06:44	and most people here know LTSP , but not the fork
06:44	<alkisg> You could try their mailing lists if you want
06:45	<alibaba> Ok. So the question is: If I use the standard LTSP without KIWI: Will it be better then?
06:45	<alkisg> Better? I don't know. More support here? Yes.
06:46	<alibaba> I surely don't change the distro only because of LTSP. SuSE and all debians differ too much in behavior.
06:47	Will the standard LTSP run on OpenSuSE 11.1, too, and are there binaries for that?
06:47	<Appiah> but then again you can turn to Novell for kiwi-support right? :)
06:47	<alibaba> :)
06:48	Watch activities in #kiwi ;)
06:49	alkisg has quit IRC
06:50	<alibaba> Sometimes I think it is easier using TC's with embedded Linux. Then all I have to do is activating xdm's or kdm's remote access. I actually presumed that LTSP will not need much more.
06:55	<Appiah> xdm/kdm "remote access" uses xdmcp and thats not ltsp
06:55	ltsp uses ldm with ssh
07:05	lucascoala has quit IRC
07:07	pmatulis has joined #ltsp
07:07	<alibaba> Ok this is a difference, but the behavior (from users point of view) is the same. Switch on, wait a bit, log in, work.
07:09	I found now a 54 pages .odt manual. Will read it and then - possibly - give it another try.
07:09	<Appiah> for kiwi? :)
07:10	<alibaba> https://forgesvn1.novell.com/viewsvn/education/trunk/docu/kiwi-ltsp/
07:10	kiwi-ltsp.odt
07:12	If this doesn't work, I will use normal TC's with embedded Linux. Saves time and nerves...
07:15	<Appiah> :D
07:17	Cristina2 has joined #ltsp
07:18	<jetienne> TC=?
07:18	<alibaba> Thin Client (with embedded Linux)
07:19	alkisg has joined #ltsp
07:19	<jetienne> alibaba: thx
07:20	<Appiah> alibaba: is there openoffice,kmail and such on it?
07:20	<alibaba> jetienne: All I have to do then is connect it to LAN, switch it on, and configure a few things. And enabling xdmcp is no problem.
07:21	Appiah: No. It acts similat to a LTSP client. Apps are running on the host.
07:21	<Appiah> oh your gonna use xdmcp instead
07:21	<alibaba> Well, why not?
07:21	<Appiah> performance
07:21	<alkisg> Sound, localapps, local devices etc...
07:22	<Appiah> I have not benchmarked it but there was a huge difference when I tried it
07:22	<alibaba> If I get LTSP not running, performance of LTSP is zero.
07:22	<Appiah> :D
07:23	<alibaba> Sure, I'd prefer LTSP also because it is cheaper (TC's cost twice as much), but if I get no help, what shall I do?
07:24	<Appiah> learn I'd guess
07:25	I mean if you have a pxeboot issue it might not be that "LTSP" related
07:26	<alibaba> Always also a question of time. If I spend days and weeks, it is cheaper to use TC's.
07:26	<Appiah> I just search the mailinglist now and I found your issue
07:26	searched*
07:27	http://www.mail-archive.com/ltsp-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net/msg36739.html
07:27	<alibaba> exactly what I have.
07:29	Ah, not exactly what I have... Mine looped at "waiting for config..."
07:30	In the Kiwi part.
07:31	Where it tries to load finally config.default.
07:32	<Appiah> do you have /srv/kiwi-ltsp/i386.img. ? whats the config.default like?
07:32	rjune has joined #ltsp
07:33	<alibaba> I had it. (I kicked off the whole stuff from my server 1 hour ago because I was very upset.)
07:35	I must leave for a customer visit now. When I come back I will give it another (possibly final) try.
07:42	The_Code has joined #ltsp
07:56	hersonls has joined #ltsp
07:59	<alkisg> stgraber: would it be possible for the italc client autodiscovery to use the (m)dns name (e.g. alkis.local below) instead of the IP?
07:59	=;eth0;IPv4;italc\032alkisg;_italc._tcp;local;alkis.local;10.160.31.10;5900;"alkis" "7e4758f8e6fc7b7c2dc855d1aee980f7" "3ec9f99796dec3a76966e832eb82ce8b" "9e3b610be3aba3e83a1d6e685cf15ee3"
07:59	This way iTalc would "see" the client again if the client was rebooted and a different IP was assigned to it. Or, some teachers want to be able to run italc-launcher once to generate the file, and then just run italc (or set AUTODETECT_CLIENTS=False). If the clients take a dhcp address, that isn't currently possible, but it would be possible if we used the dns names of the clients.
08:02	(in other words, would you consider accepting a patch for a configuration option that does that? :))
08:04	And, I'd also like to send a patch for LTSP client reboot/shutdown etc if you think that would be appropriate...
08:05	I.e. send a dbus call for logout, and leave an appropriate file or environment variable that would be picked up by LDM, and it would then decide to reboot/shutdown etc.
08:05	Gadi has joined #ltsp
08:08	ogra has quit IRC
08:08	ogra has joined #ltsp
08:10	<alkisg> Gadi: would it be possible to put a hook to the 'RequestShutdown' dbus method of 'org.gnome.SessionManager', and when the user selects shutdown from the gnome menu, then the hook would leave some flag for LDM to pick up, so that then LDM would then call poweroff instead of restarting?
08:13	<ogra> ugh
08:13	<Gadi> Hmm... you could set an Xatom
08:13	but, ogra would prefer that you just make dbus work properly
08:13	<ogra> why not do it properly instead of applying hacks over and over
08:13	<alkisg> ogra, better ideas? :)
08:13	<Gadi> :P
08:13	<ogra> yeah
08:14	<Gadi> just read the german dbus manual
08:14	;)
08:14	<alkisg> Are dbus hooks possible? If so, I could send a patch to make reboot/shutdown work in an hour or so. Properly integrading dbus is beyond me :)
08:14	Muwahahaha :)
08:14	<Gadi> it tells you how to fix it in plain german
08:14	<ogra> the time you guys put into all these hacks to work around the missing dbus feature would better be put into fixing dbus and not having to supply weird hacks at all
08:14	<alkisg> (about the german dbus manual)
08:15	<ogra> i know sbalneav looked into it and we discussed a solution in maine
08:16	<alkisg> ogra: well... in Jaunty we had a patch for fusa that hided the menu items for reboot/shutdown, but now in Karmic it isn't there... The dbus hack would be at least a little better I think, until sbalneav or some other dev properly merged the 2 buses...
08:16	E.g. it would even make italc work to reboot clients remotely
08:17	hersonls has quit IRC
08:17	<ogra> alkisg, well, 60% of the scripts and "fixes" ltsp ships would just go away once dbus works right since dbus already does the right things for all the stuff we always wroked around
08:18	in your specific case: if you have proper dbus communication the shutdown option in gnome would simply just shut down the client
08:19	<Gadi> so, ogra, where are the notes of your conversation?
08:19	rjune has quit IRC
08:19	<Gadi> is there a blueprint somewhere?
08:20	<ogra> nope
08:20	we had a whiteboard, ask scottie ... he might have noted stuff down
08:20	* Gadi pulls out a fresh drawing board
08:20	<ogra> i pointed him to gabriel as a poof of concept
08:20	hmm, nice typo :)
08:20	* alkisg takes pop-corn, sits back and watches carefully... :)
08:21	<Gadi> hehe
08:21	* Gadi sits next to alkisg
08:22	<alkisg> Hey, this sit is reserved for people that are not able to help with dbus merging! Begone! :)
08:23	* alkisg commits to provide as much pizza and beer is needed for sbalneav and Gadi to do this :)
08:23	<Gadi> hey- all I know about dbus is that you never want to be late for it or have the wrong fare
08:23	<Appiah> since I'm so far away, I'll give your pizza and beer ... over the internet
08:24	I can make a large pizza in ascii
08:24	<alkisg> No ascii-mushrooms for me, please!
08:24	<Appiah> dont be picky!
08:25	<alkisg> Soooooo... if dbus merging is going to take a loooong time, maybe I could try to send a tiny-mini patch to make shutdown/rebooting work? :D
08:33	<Gadi> alkisg: since you like to play: http://gabriel.sourceforge.net/howto.html
08:33	<alkisg> No no no - no remote stuff for me, thank you :)
08:33	Just a local reboot/shutdown is enough!
08:34	(and really, even if dbus lets 2 processes connect remotely, how would the whole "tree" be merged?"
08:35	<ogra> you dont merge the tree
08:35	the session bus on the server talks to the system bus on the client
08:36	and needs to ignore the system bus of the yerver
08:36	*server
08:37	<alkisg> I can't imagine how that would happen without patching dbus itself...
08:38	<ogra> yes, you very likely need to change dbus for that
08:38	<alkisg> But what about other "relations" that the session bus has, with the system bus on the server?
08:39	<ogra> which ones would that be ?
08:39	<alkisg> E.g. won't it have consolekit references for the server system bus?
08:39	I don't know, I'm way out of my depth here, but I imagine it would have some relations...
08:39	<ogra> not if LDM uses CK on the client :)
08:39	* Gadi kicks alkisg out of his seat and grabs his popcorn
08:39	<ogra> ldm needs to provide the right info to CK on the client at login
08:40	then the clients system bus has all you need for PK and CK
08:40	* alkisg hopes it's "just" ck, and not much other stuff... :(
08:40	<ogra> and you wont need any additional hacks at all anymore
08:41	<alkisg> Right... well, until good ole Scotty has a few weeks to spare on this, what about 1-2 more small-tiny-mini patches? :P :D
08:41	<ogra> i.e. you could drop 60% of ltspfs ... remote sound volume handling, all the little hacks that work around missing dbus comm.
08:41	<alkisg> OK ok joking aside, I wish I could help on this, but damn my 17 years of windows programming, I can't :(
08:42	<Gadi> alkisg: you have some virtual machine test setups to play with?
08:42	<alkisg> Gadi, sure
08:42	* Gadi suggests trying gabriel as-is and report back on how it really works
08:42	<Gadi> from a user POV
08:43	* Gadi thinks until someone gets this thread of talk to action, it will always be a bar topic
08:43	<Gadi> ;)
08:43	* alkisg thinks gabriel works on an application level, while we'd like to work on a level below than, on the dbus sources probably...
08:43	<alkisg> *that
08:43	But nope, I don't think I'm capable of working on dbus sources
08:43	<Gadi> we won't know whats broken until we try
08:43	:)
08:44	<alkisg> I haven't even made any glib programs yet.... :(
08:45	<Gadi> alkisg- gnome-panel is just an application
08:45	if you run a remote gnome-panel with gabriel's dbus set up and tell it to shutdown, what happens?
08:45	<Appiah> can you explain in simple terms, what will the dbus handle , that scripts does today?
08:46	for ltsp
08:46	<Gadi> Appiah: dbus is how d-applications talk to d-system
08:46	:)
08:46	<Appiah> :D
08:46	<Gadi> so, they can be used to tell the system when to mount volumes, shutdown/reboot, pop up messages, etc
08:47	any application can listen to d-bus and do d-right thing
08:47	<Appiah> and right now there are "hacks" to deal with that instead of normal dbus-server , dbus-client connection ?
08:47	<Gadi> right now, the client's dbus is not connected to the server's dbus
08:48	so, when you plug in a thumb drive, we use ssh to tell the server to react
08:48	<Appiah> ah
08:48	<Gadi> but, if the server were listening to the client's dbus, it would already know
08:48	and react appropriately
08:48	as if the event were local
08:48	<Appiah> well if it's testing thats needed. I'd be happy to help.
08:49	<Gadi> so, we need to divorce the session dbus from talking to the server's system and instead talk to the client's system
08:50	<Appiah> well dbus is written just like X to act as server-client right?
08:51	<Gadi> dbus has a driver, and all the apps are simply passengers trying to get off
08:51	:)
08:52	or on
08:53	six2one has joined #ltsp
08:53	<Appiah> :D
08:57	mikkel has quit IRC
09:03	<sbalneav> Morning all
09:03	nubae has quit IRC
09:03	<alkisg> Hey dbus-man :)
09:03	<Appiah> yoyo
09:11	<sbalneav> I've been looking at d-bus, and hacking with gabriel.
09:16	<alkisg> sbalneav: does it look feasible?
09:21	<sbalneav> Feasable? Yes. Trivial? No.
09:22	I'd like to see if I can get something going for Lucid. But I need to clear the decks for at least a couple of weeks to sit down and have a long hard look at it.
09:22	<Gadi> what is it lacking?
09:23	<sbalneav> Everything
09:23	gabriel doesn't DO anything
09:23	<Appiah> O_o
09:23	<sbalneav> it's a toy.
09:23	<Gadi> like the kind you get on the fifth night of Chanuka?
09:24	not special enough for the first or the last day
09:24	mostly filler?
09:26	<sbalneav> It's definitely a good example of what we want to write. But if anyone thinks this is simply going to be a case of "package gabriel and we're done", it's going to be way more complicated than that.
09:29	bobby_C has joined #ltsp
09:30	CAN-o-SPAM has joined #ltsp
09:33	Brian_H has joined #ltsp
09:39	<Appiah> sbalneav: so the goal is to build something that uses gabriel?
09:40	<sbalneav> No
09:40	Like I say, gabriel's a toy, and doesn't do too much
09:40	we'll either have to build something at a higher level that uses gabriel on the low end
09:41	or, more likely, just do something from scratch, seeing as how gabriel's unmaintained.
09:41	<Appiah> =/
09:41	ltsp fork-like gabriel?
09:42	Egyptian[Home] has quit IRC
09:42	<sbalneav> Well, we either pick up maintaining gabriel as part of ltsp, or steal bits from gabriel that do what we want to do our own thing.
09:42	<ogra> no
09:43	add ssh support to dbus is the proper solution
09:43	based on the proof of concept gabriel shows
09:43	<sbalneav> Well, sure.
09:43	But I've already become upstream for ltsp, and now sabayon
09:43	<ogra> else you have to maintain that stuff forever ...
09:43	<sbalneav> I'm not really wanting to be upstream for dbus as well.
09:44	<ogra> just push a patch to upstream dbus and have the dbus guys take care
09:44	<sbalneav> Oh, c'mon ogra. You, of ALL people know how it works :)
09:44	<ogra> else you will always be behind on security fixes etc ... if they fix stuff upstream, they will fix ssh transport too
09:44	<sbalneav> Once we submit the patch, unless we maintain it, it breaks in subsequent releases :)
09:45	<alkisg> Doesn't dbus already support tcp/ip sockets as addresses? Or we want to encrypt those as well?
09:45	<ogra> then you file an upstream bug :)
09:46	<sbalneav> Yeah, kinda like I filed the "ssh-askpass mechanism doesn't extend to pam" bug with upstream ssh 2.5 years ago?
09:46	Or I filed the "cups doesn't handle %%IncludeFeature" bug with both cups upstream AND ubuntu 1 year ago? :)
09:47	<Appiah> yes it can use TCP/IP alkisg
09:47	<sbalneav> One way or the other, we're going to be on the hook to make this work.
09:47	However, your point about doing it in dbus itself is valid.
09:47	and probably where I SHOULD focus my efforts.
09:48	Selveste1 has quit IRC
09:48	<sbalneav> Wethere I work on our own stuff, or work as part of dbus, it's the same work :)
09:48	brendan0powers has joined #ltsp
09:49	<brendan0powers> sbalneav: hey, just an update, the authentication project isn't dead:)
09:50	sbalneav: I've been working on it quite a bit, but the scope/organization of the project is probably going to change
09:50	sbalneav: I'l let you know the details once there more concrete
09:52	<Ahmuck> what's gabriel? link?
09:53	<ogra> http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=gabriel+dbus
09:56	evilx__ has joined #LTSP
09:58	Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp
10:04	<alkisg> sbalneav: ok, dbus merging will need some time or it may never be implemented, understandable. How would you feed about a small ldm patch to enable rebooting/shutting down of the clients? E.g. a script sets a xatom "LDM_ACTION=poweroff", then logs off the user, and then ldm sees the xatom and shuts down the PC?
10:05	<ogra> alkisg, why not use ltsp-localapps ?
10:05	<alkisg> ogra, with what? reboot? Not enough privileges...
10:05	Also, it'd be nicer if a proper logout was done before powering off the PC
10:06	I.e. proper == set the poweroff xatom, call gnome logout from dbus, and then ldm shuts off the PC
10:06	<ogra> indeed you need a privileged listener on the client side
10:06	ldm should be able to do that with a few patches though
10:07	it already has shutdown/reboot code
10:07	<alkisg> Right, I'm willing to write + test a patch for that
10:07	As long as it has a chance to be accepted...
10:07	<ogra> why shouldnt it ?
10:08	<sbalneav> As a completely stupid question, why not just press the power button?
10:08	<alkisg> sbalneav: suppose I want to poweroff 12 PCs while sitting on the server, how do I do that?
10:08	<ogra> or rather fix the karmic fusa applet ;)
10:09	<sbalneav> alkisg: Gee, I dunno. Walk over there and press the power buttons?
10:09	<ogra> oh, i thought you wanted to integrate it with fusa
10:09	<alkisg> sbalneav: hmmm I thought you were the same size as me, man...
10:09	<ogra> (thought called indicator-session nowadays i think)
10:09	<alkisg> Are you really willing to walk over 12 PCs instead of just clicking "poweroff" from italc?
10:10	<ogra> alkisg, yeah, so its healthy to move a bit :)
10:10	<sbalneav> I walk around entire FLOORS to turn off machines :)
10:10	But yeah, code up a patch, I'll gladly put it in.
10:10	<alkisg> Heh I was just about to complain about that :D
10:12	evilx_ has quit IRC
10:12	<alkisg> ogra: sure I could write a patch for indicator-applet-session to set the appropriate xatom, would you help in pushing that to Ubuntu?
10:12	(we already had one for fusa, so I don't think it'll be a big problem...)
10:13	<ogra> i dont think that would go into karmic
10:13	<alkisg> No no, in Lucid...
10:13	<ogra> s/would/could/
10:13	talk to upstream
10:13	i think their channel is #ayatana
10:14	<alkisg> OK, I'll try, thanks...
10:14	<ogra> while you're at it you could also ask about lucid and the missing ltsp patch ;)
10:15	apparently it shows shutdown/reboot while it shouldnt
10:15	<alkisg> What missing patch?
10:15	Wasn't that an ubuntu-only patch?
10:15	I don't think it was ever upstream, was it?
10:15	<ogra> the one that supresses the shutdown/reboot options to be in the menu
10:15	ayatana is a canonical project
10:15	<alkisg> Aaaaah ok now I get it :)
10:15	<ogra> and is upstream for indicator-session
10:16	when they switched from fusa to indicator-session they dropped that patch
10:16	<alkisg> I'll give that a try :)
10:16	<ogra> :)
10:16	i thik there is even a bug about that open
10:17	<alkisg> (of course it'd be better if voiced by an ltsp developer, but anyway I'll try...)
10:19	alibaba has quit IRC
10:21	staffencasa has joined #ltsp
10:21	<sbalneav> alkisg: If you write a patch for ldm, you're an ltsp developer :)
10:22	<ogra> he wrote lots of patches already
10:22	<sbalneav> ok
10:22	<alkisg> Nah... I won't be an LTSP developer until I catch up with you guys in a meeting and eat lobster :)
10:22	<ogra> at least there are many bugs with patches :)
10:22	<sbalneav> well then, he should have access to the bzr repo then.
10:23	All in favour of adding alkisg to ltsp-delevloers group, say aye
10:23	aye
10:23	ogra: ?
10:23	Gadi: ?
10:23	vagrant's not here
10:23	stgraber: ?
10:24	<ogra> do as you like :) i have no objections
10:26	<sbalneav> alkisg: I'll check with the others, but if you're producing valid patches/work, AFAIC, you should have access to the repo.
10:32	<alkisg> Thanks a lot sbalneav, I appreciate that. I got a (good) answer from #ayatana, but have to leave right now, I'll be back later on with news :)
10:33	<sbalneav> stgraber says aye.
10:34	Gadi: Help us Gadi-wan kenobi, you're our only hope.
10:37	alkisg has quit IRC
10:44	otavio has quit IRC
10:44	otavio has joined #ltsp
11:02	cld has quit IRC
11:02	<Gadi> sorry, guys was afk
11:02	need to read backlog...
11:03	<sbalneav> Gadi: alkisg's been filing bugs and producing patches.
11:03	<Gadi> this much is clear
11:03	:)
11:03	<sbalneav> I'm suggesting we add him to ltsp-devel group, so he has access to the bzr repo
11:03	In other words, he's an ltsp developer now.
11:04	<Gadi> definitely - if he wants such an unglorious title
11:04	:)
11:05	we are a motley crew, aren't we?
11:05	<sbalneav> Well, sure.
11:05	Bar's pretty low to join our merry little gang
11:05	I just gotta find vagrant.
11:06	* Gadi hopes that was a non-sequitor
11:06	<sbalneav> Well, I want to make sure HE's ok with it.
11:06	I mean, who knows? Maybe vagrant and alkisg have some kind of blood feud going that we don't know about :)
11:06	<Gadi> that's what I thought you meant. Vagranc's pretty close to the top of our bar
11:06	:)
11:07	alkisg has joined #ltsp
11:07	<sbalneav> wb alkisg
11:07	<alkisg> Heya :)
11:08	Well in #ayatana they say the check with consolekit now if the user is able to restart/shutdown etc the machine
11:08	(consolekit is on the system dbus)
11:08	So we should be looking there to make things work properly...
11:09	* Gadi thinks dbus is driving in circles
11:09	<alkisg> Well at least that is more DE independed
11:09	(as opposed to calling gnome/kde dbus methods...)
11:13	johnny has joined #ltsp
11:15	mherweg has joined #ltsp
11:15	<sbalneav> !seen vagrantc
11:15	<ltspbot> sbalneav: vagrantc was last seen in #ltsp 1 day, 20 hours, 45 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <vagrantc> oh, also, using nbd-client's initramfs hooks, networking doesn't break nbd either.
11:16	mherweg has left #ltsp
11:24	jaytea has joined #ltsp
11:29	Sarten-X has quit IRC
11:29	bobby_C has quit IRC
11:31	six2one has quit IRC
11:39	six2one has joined #ltsp
11:45	evilx has joined #LTSP
11:46	Egyptian[Home] has quit IRC
11:59	evilx__ has quit IRC
11:59	Selveste1 has joined #ltsp
12:04	ftherese has quit IRC
12:18	evilx_ has joined #LTSP
12:20	shawnp0wers has joined #ltsp
12:21	<alkisg> Heh, X99-zzz-logout-action already has the needed code... :) But what creates the file "/tmp/ldm-logout-action" ?
12:22	<johnny> alkisg, grep?
12:22	<alkisg> johnny: grep didn't reveal the secret... :(
12:22	<johnny> alkisg, i gotta wonder if we should use dbus instead of files in /tmp tho.. since we basically require dbus anyways
12:23	alkisg, what did you grep for?
12:23	<alkisg> For the file name
12:23	<johnny> or rather.. the OS requires dbs
12:23	did you grep for logout-action ?
12:23	<alkisg> grep -r '\-action'
12:23	<johnny> ah.. suck
12:23	/me pokes Gadi
12:24	<alkisg> Bah sorry I was in the ldm source tree
12:24	* alkisg greps again in the ltsp tree :D
12:25	* Gadi needs to run - bbiab
12:25	<alkisg> Bye Gadi
12:25	<shawnp0wers> _UsUrPeR_, Gadi, stgraber, or anyone else that might have a knowledgable thought on the issue -- I'm about to put 4 identical servers live with LTSP5 on Ubuntu, is ltsp-cluster advantageous enough to install now or should I do it the "old way" and wait a bit before jumping into clustering
12:28	<alkisg> Heh yeah, it works fine, what I wanted to do is already implemented :D
12:28	ltsp-localapps echo shutdown > /tmp/ldm-logout-action :)
12:28	<CAN-o-SPAM> shawnp0wers: whats most important factor in this decision? Time?
12:28	alkisg has quit IRC
12:31	Kevin` has quit IRC
12:32	johnny has left #ltsp
12:33	<ogra> alkisg i suppose you saw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPClientShutdownReboot
12:33	oh, he's gone
12:34	evilx has quit IRC
12:35	rjune has joined #ltsp
12:38	<shawnp0wers> CAN-o-SPAM: Just whether or not management makes sense
12:41	The_Code has quit IRC
12:44	jetienne has left #ltsp
12:45	Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp
12:49	hersonls has joined #ltsp
12:57	<Ahmuck> ogra: i assume the script shutdowns the thin client from the logout button rather than logging out and then shutting down?
13:01	alkisg has joined #ltsp
13:04	dro has joined #ltsp
13:07	Kicer86 has joined #ltsp
13:11	Ahmuck-Jr has joined #ltsp
13:12	<Ahmuck-Jr> interesting, ltsp client runs faster on my pc than kubuntu
13:17	johnny has joined #ltsp
13:20	Ahmuck has quit IRC
13:22	<shawnp0wers> Am I correct in thinking I no longer need the DHCP option: option root-path "1.2.3.4:/opt/ltsp/i386" for each client?
13:22	I think NBD does away with that...
13:22	(I'm referring to LTSP5 of course)
13:23	<dro> shawnp0wers: you talking about in lts.conf ?
13:23	rjune has quit IRC
13:23	<shawnp0wers> No, for my dhcp server
13:23	<dro> or in your dhclient.conf
13:23	rjune has joined #ltsp
13:23	<johnny> sure..
13:23	<shawnp0wers> I've been putting the option in by habit, as it was needed to mount the root dierectory for ltsp4.2
13:23	but I just removed it and my client seems to be happy...
13:24	I just want to make sure my brain is working correctly. :)
13:25	<sbalneav> yeah, if you're doing nbd, the root-path isn't needed.
13:26	<shawnp0wers> thanks. :)
13:40	dro has quit IRC
13:49	<alkisg> ltsp-localapps "/bin/sh -c 'echo shutdown > /tmp/ldm-logout-action'"
13:49	Works like a charm :)
13:50	On to patching indicator-session with that... :P :D
13:55	Urm, what's the standard way to spawn a process in glib? g_spawn_sync?
13:57	Probably g_spawn_command_line_sync...
14:07	Comnenus\| has joined #ltsp
14:10	<Comnenus\|> I am putting ltsp on Debian. The guide says to have client use a PXE boot. I don't want thin clients though...is it possible to connect to the terminal server and be presented with a login prompt using something other than xdmcp ?
14:10	<sbalneav> alkisg: there's a bunch of different ways, but if you're doing this within ldm, why not just use my helper function, ldm_spawn
14:10	<johnny> Comnenus\|, don't use ltsp then
14:10	<alkisg> sbalneav: no no change is needed in LTSP, all the functionality is already there
14:10	<johnny> ltsp isn't what you want really
14:10	<Comnenus\|> johnny: is it strictly PXE booting?
14:10	<johnny> it's strictly network booting
14:10	<Comnenus\|> darn =/
14:10	<johnny> it setups an bootable environment
14:11	what you want is just remote X/NX/vnc
14:11	or rdp
14:11	<sbalneav> Comnenus\|: ssh -X server gnome-session :)
14:11	<alkisg> sbalneav: I don't know who made X99-zzz-logout-action, but it's just what I needed (from the LTSP part) :)
14:11	<Comnenus\|> sbalneav: I wish it was that easy.
14:11	<johnny> sbalneav, have you tried new feature of empathy for sharing desktops yet?
14:11	Comnenus\|, why sin't it?
14:12	<sbalneav> Comnenus\|: at the end of the day, that's all LTSP is doing
14:12	<johnny> yep
14:12	<sbalneav> johnny: no
14:12	<Comnenus\|> johnny: can any of those handle multiple users in their own desktop, and when they connect to the server they have to enter their login/pass ? I've only used VNC after the session is already active.
14:12	<johnny> sbalneav, you should.. it's nice
14:12	what sbalneav says.. yes
14:12	<alkisg> Comnenus\|: see also freenx
14:12	<Comnenus\|> excellent, thank yoyu.
14:12	<johnny> Comnenus\|, i mean.. what sbalneav says is what you can do
14:12	<sbalneav> Who would I want to share my desktop with? You'd all see my goat-porn wallpaper!
14:13	* sbalneav kills the conversation dead yet again
14:13	<alkisg> Woah, goat-porn? And I thought my shark-porn was kinky... :D
14:13	<Comnenus\|> hah
14:14	<johnny> sbalneav, it's good for remote trouble shooting, without having to tell people to touch their firewall to forward ssh
14:14	<alkisg> johnny: you can also VERY easily do that with reverse vnc
14:14	<johnny> alkisg, as easy as empathy ?
14:14	<alkisg> (but empathy is also really easy if you have it installed :))
14:14	<johnny> i don't know about that
14:14	<alkisg> johnny: wanna try?
14:14	<Comnenus\|> And it's not that easy because it has to mirror a windows terminal server as closely as possible... but unlike my current windows terminal servers, it has to work.
14:14	<johnny> we already did alkisg :)
14:14	<alkisg> Not with x11vnc :)
14:15	<johnny> that requires typing on the cli doesn't it?
14:15	<sbalneav> I still can't get empathy to do anything with a webbly camera :(
14:15	<alkisg> x11vnc -connect address <== is all it takes
14:15	<Comnenus\|> not everyone using it is going to be able to install various clients and specify ssh parameters. don't ask.
14:16	<alkisg> You can more easily copy/paste that in the Alt+F2 dialog, than install empathy and add a contact (if you don't already have that)
14:16	But sure, empathy is cooler if you already have a contact that wants to help you
14:17	<sbalneav> Who's got a web cam?
14:17	* alkisg does, but he's in the middle of a shark-related affair :P
14:18	<Comnenus\|> oh crap am I missing shark week?
14:19	<sbalneav> I've been trying to make web-cam calls to a couple of people, but &^@&*%# empathy NEVER seems to work.
14:19	<alkisg> sbalneav: alkisg at gmail (or jabber)
14:20	<sbalneav> k, hold on landshark
14:20	prolly have to disconnext from here
14:21	<johnny> alkisg, empathy comes by default now.. tho
14:22	as part of the gnome package set..
14:22	<alkisg> sbalneav: hold on it rings but I can't see the dialog!
14:22	<johnny> so any distro with gnome 2.28 should have it.. except for those like gentoo/arch/etc
14:22	and even gentoo comes with it.. it's just so easy to remove..
14:22	<sbalneav> One ringy-dingy
14:22	Two ringy-dingys
14:23	Oh, something's happening
14:23	<alkisg> I can see a pitch black square :)
14:23	<sbalneav> So can I
14:23	<alkisg> Maybe I should quit pidgin?
14:23	<Ahmuck-Jr> it's soooo kewl to see you having problems
14:23	<sbalneav> \o/ for empathy, best program EVAR!!!!!11111one
14:23	<alkisg> Heh, I can hear you typing :)
14:23	<Ahmuck-Jr> it means my whining and complaining doesn't make me feel so bad
14:23	<johnny> Ahmuck-Jr, everybody has problems
14:23	<alkisg> I can hear you, can you?
14:24	<Ahmuck-Jr> johnny: i tend to have a few more :(
14:24	well, cookie break time is here ...
14:24	* Ahmuck-Jr troddles off
14:24	<sbalneav> I wish drinking were more of a problem for me. Might make the other problems seem more bearable :)
14:25	<Ahmuck-Jr> heh, u might get a whole lot done as well
14:25	<sbalneav> alkisg: Why don't you buzz me
14:25	<alkisg> ok
14:25	sbalneav: but I guess pidgin is using the camera, so I'll quit it
14:25	<sbalneav> ok
14:25	alkisg has quit IRC
14:26	<sbalneav> What, you use PIDGIN for irc?
14:35	alkisg has joined #ltsp
14:36	<sbalneav> alkisg: Soooo, care to report our findings?
14:36	:)
14:37	<alkisg> Well... that... was... not really what we expected from empathy :)
14:37	<sbalneav> Well, actually, that was EXACTLY what I expected from empathy
14:37	Comnenus\| has quit IRC
14:37	<sbalneav> unfortunately :)
14:37	<alkisg> I'd describe this as half-singlex communication :D
14:38	(i.e. only 1 voice was passing through, with no video whatsoever :))
14:38	<sbalneav> alkisg: dude, getcherself off pidgin for irc. Use irssi, running under screen.
14:38	Then you can just detach, re-attach later, eyc.
14:38	<alkisg> Nah - it'd mess up with all my gnome-terminal tabs
14:39	And I do like the pidgin smilies... :P
14:39	<sbalneav> phhht
14:40	<alkisg> ...and the <ping!> sound when someone pings me... and the nice tab switching...
14:41	...and having just one program for all my IM needs... OK enough pidgin love, back to sharks :D
14:41	<sbalneav> What's wrong with typing /win 11 when you want to switch windows? :)
14:47	<alkisg> YEAAHH!! /me now has ltsp clients that can actually reboot and shutdown from the gnome menu
14:48	In gtk-logout-helper.c:
14:48	} else if (action == LOGOUT_DIALOG_SHUTDOWN) {
14:48	+ g_spawn_command_line_async("ltsp-localapps \"/bin/sh -c 'echo shutdown > /tmp/ldm-logout-action'\"", &error);
14:48	+ g_clear_error (&error);
14:48	res = dbus_g_proxy_call_with_timeout (sm_proxy, "RequestShutdown", INT_MAX, &error,
14:50	<Gadi> alkisg: clever. I appreciate your hacks, if no one else does
14:50	:)
14:51	<alkisg> Merci!!!
14:51	<Gadi> you need another for reboot, yeah?
14:51	<alkisg> Yes, 2 more lines below
14:51	} else if (action == LOGOUT_DIALOG_RESTART) {
14:51	g_spawn_command_line_async("ltsp-localapps \"/bin/sh -c 'echo reboot > /tmp/ldm-logout-action'\"", &error);
14:51	g_clear_error (&error);
14:51	res = dbus_g_proxy_call_with_timeout (sm_proxy, "RequestReboot", INT_MAX, &error,
14:51	<Gadi> that code must have been an stgraber add-in
14:51	<alkisg> I don't see anything using it, though
14:51	Well now it does :D
14:52	* Gadi is surprised executing random commands from a /tmp file made it past the sensors ;)
14:52	* Gadi bets ltsp-cluster uses it
14:52	<alkisg> It only checks for 2 specific keywords in that file
14:52	It doesn't execute random commands...
14:52	<Gadi> fine, well s/random/dangerous/
14:52	;)
14:53	Lns has joined #ltsp
14:53	<alkisg> Sure, an xprop would be a better solution I think
14:53	<Lns> Hi all
14:53	<alkisg> Hi Lns
14:53	rjune has quit IRC
14:53	rjune has joined #ltsp
14:53	shawnp0wers has quit IRC
14:54	akuepker has joined #ltsp
14:54	* Lns weeps
14:54	<Lns> I don't get it...why does HP release server firmware updates through .exe files only....
14:55	I feel like I'm caught in a vortex of Microsoft that will never let go of me no matter how hard I try
14:56	<stgraber> Gadi: what are you guys talking about ? :)
14:57	<johnny> Lns, at least dell is working on driver updates through special device files..
14:57	<stgraber> Gadi: nope, I don't fork gnome :)
14:57	Gadi: we just don't have shutdown/reboot in the menu and have them as menu entries in the Application menu (using the localapps menu stuff)
14:58	<Lns> johnny: that's kinda cool...but i just don't get why they can't release OS agnostic bootable ISOs or something. Seriously. they're a hardware company.
14:58	The closest thing is a floppy image. Come on. it's the 2000's already.
14:58	<johnny> why should you have to turn off your computer?
14:58	<Lns> Nobody has a floppy drive anymore.
14:59	well in my case i'm trying to upgrade my CPUs. ;)
14:59	<johnny> sure.. but in general
14:59	<Lns> i'd think updating the BIOS/firmware requires a reboot
14:59	<alkisg> stgraber: would you consider accepting a patch for iTalc that used the same method for ltsp client reboot/shutdown?
15:00	stgraber: also, indicator-session isn't gnome, it's canonical :D
15:03	tstafford has joined #ltsp
15:05	<stgraber> alkisg: you are one of these weird guys who don't use local ICA right ? :)
15:05	because otherwise shutdown/reboot works just fine
15:06	<alkisg> stgraber: heh, yeah, one of those weird guys using the default installation :D
15:06	Ahmuck-Jr has quit IRC
15:06	<stgraber> hehe
15:06	<alkisg> stgraber: shutdown works fine? how? the code is broken...
15:06	<johnny> Lns, updating shouldn't..
15:06	having it actually be used.. perhaps..
15:06	but not actually updating it..
15:07	<alkisg> stgraber: I was going to include a dbus call to properly logout/shutdown/reboot standalone clients, too...
15:08	with shell: dbus-send --system --dest=org.freedesktop.ConsoleKit --type=method_call --print-reply --reply-timeout=2000 /org/freedesktop/ConsoleKit/Manager org.freedesktop.ConsoleKit.Manager.Restart
15:08	<stgraber> alkisg: should be good as long as you make sure it won't do that when it runs locally
15:08	<alkisg> Errr sorry with gnome session instead of consolekit
15:08	<stgraber> alkisg: as I doubt ConsoleKit is working correctly when called from a localapp
15:08	<alkisg> stgraber: sure, np, I'll test all 3 methods to verify they work OK
15:09	hersonls has quit IRC
15:09	<alkisg> (ltsp, localapps, and standalone clients)
15:09	<johnny> seems like policykit might not like such a thing..
15:10	<alkisg> johnny: that's on standalone clients, and the line I pasted above is wrong
15:11	It needs org.gnome.SessionManager/RequestReboot instead
15:12	Kicer86 has quit IRC
15:13	<Lns> hrm...ok well HP packages their firmware update images in .exe files. deceptive but at least there's a light at the end of the tunnel now :)
15:16	rjune has quit IRC
15:16	rjune has joined #ltsp
15:24	evilx_ has quit IRC
15:28	akuepker has quit IRC
15:46	<alkisg> Just wondering, do we currently have any way to disable reboot/poweroff from the LDM screen?
15:48	evilx has joined #LTSP
15:53	vagrantc has joined #ltsp
15:54	moldy has quit IRC
15:54	Topslakr has quit IRC
15:54	_UsUrPeR_ has quit IRC
15:54	moldy has joined #ltsp
15:54	_UsUrPeR_ has joined #ltsp
15:54	tarbo has joined #ltsp
15:58	<alkisg> stgraber: I talked with the guys at #ayatana and I think I could get that /tmp/ldm-logout-action based hack accepted in gnome-session (there's already a debian/patch for the same region of code). Is that OK from the LTSP side? Will the /tmp/ldm-logout-action trick still work for Lucid?
16:06	<sbalneav> vagrantc: hey there
16:07	<vagrantc> using a predictible location in /tmp is a security problem, at the very least, a DoS attack.
16:07	chrisinajar has quit IRC
16:12	<sbalneav> alkisg: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream
16:12	By unanimous approval.
16:13	<alkisg> sbalneav: woah, thank you guys! I promise I won't erase the whole branch deliberately! :D
16:13	vagrantc: there's no executable code in that /tmp file. It isn't a script
16:14	vagrantc: it's a text file being read, and if it contains "reboot", the X99 script reboots. The same goes for shutdown...
16:15	<sbalneav> For service above and beyond the call of duty, valour in the face of enemy fire, and a penchant for sharks, alkisg has become (all together now)
16:15	* sbalneav does zombie hands
16:15	<sbalneav> oooooneeee ooooooooffffff uuuuuuussssssssssssss
16:16	<alkisg> Heheheheeee... /me imagines sbalneav with zombie hands and can't stop laughing :D
16:16	Cristina2 has quit IRC
16:17	<sbalneav> alkisg: Want an @ltsp.org address?
16:17	I'll ask jammcq next time I see him about to set you one up.
16:18	<alkisg> Heh, that'd be fun, but I'm not using my @ubuntu address either, so I don't know...
16:18	<CAN-o-SPAM> alkisg: congrats
16:18	<alkisg> Thank you CAN-o-SPAM :)
16:18	<sbalneav> You owe me (at next year's BTS) One Ouzo
16:18	<alkisg> I'll bring tsipouro, it's better!
16:19	<sbalneav> whatever
16:19	<alkisg> (and also hand made :))
16:19	<sbalneav> somethin' greek
16:19	And I want you to thow the glass on the ground and scream OPA!
16:20	'Cuz that'll make me giggle.
16:20	<alkisg> Heheheh!!! /me thinks sbalneav watched some greek movies from the fifties :D
16:21	<sbalneav> yup
16:21	<alkisg> Now we throw plates on the ground!
16:21	<sbalneav> Even better
16:46	alkisg has quit IRC
16:46	jaytea has quit IRC
16:55	CAN-o-SPAM has quit IRC
16:57	Lns has quit IRC
16:59	<sbalneav> I just discovered xargs -I
16:59	My life just got better
16:59	alexqwesa has quit IRC
16:59	<sbalneav> You know what I love about Unix/Linux?
17:00	No matter how much I learn, there'll always be something new.
17:01	<johnny> never listen to somebody who says they "know unix" :)
17:01	nobody does.. :)
17:01	alexqwesa has joined #ltsp
17:07	* vagrantc looked into the eye of unix
17:11	GodFather has joined #ltsp
17:12	<johnny> vagrantc, no wonder you are the way you are..
17:29	Sarten-X has joined #ltsp
17:32	scottmaccal_ has joined #ltsp
17:32	vagrantc has quit IRC
17:35	scottmaccal_ has quit IRC
17:40	tstafford has quit IRC
17:41	Sarten-X has quit IRC
17:45	GodFather has quit IRC
17:49	Gadi has left #ltsp
18:21	Sarten-X has joined #ltsp
18:24	six2one has quit IRC
18:31	six2one has joined #ltsp
18:34	staffencasa has quit IRC
18:40	ogra has quit IRC
19:16	vagrantc has joined #ltsp
19:36	vagrantc has quit IRC
19:44	rjune has quit IRC
19:47	Brian_H has quit IRC
19:50	alexqwesa has quit IRC
20:00	alexqwesa has joined #ltsp
20:01	alexqwesa has quit IRC
20:03	pmatulis has quit IRC
20:03	alexqwesa has joined #ltsp
20:03	kleewyck has joined #ltsp
20:04	alexqwesa has quit IRC
20:08	lonchiton has joined #ltsp
20:09	<lonchiton> i am having problems with thin-client-manager can any one help me?
20:11	<moldy> lonchiton: describe your problem
20:12	<lonchiton> i follow this tutorial https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VncOnLtspClients
20:13	but when i write this xvnc4viewer 192.168.0.20 on a terminal, return this error connection refused(111)
20:13	or if i run thin client manager i cant see the clients
20:14	<moldy> i don't know if the vnc support in the tcm that comes with ubuntu is working at all (never tried it)
20:14	you should try to get vnc itself working before you try tcm
20:16	what does "nmap 192.168.0.20 -p 5900 -sT -sU" say?
20:16	<lonchiton> ok
20:17	<moldy> your first task is to check wether the vnc service on the thin client is running at all
20:18	i need to sleep now... you can leave me a message here and i will respond when i get back
20:18	if you do, highlight me (mention my nickname)
20:18	good luck ;)
20:18	<lonchiton> 5900/tcp closed vnc
20:18	5900/udp closed unknown
20:18	MAC Address: 00:04:23:0D:6F:EE (Intel)
20:18	<moldy> closed = vnc service not running
20:19	for some reason, your client is not starting the service. did you reboot it? try to start the service manually
20:19	<lonchiton> yes, i do it
20:19	<moldy> use something like "ps ax" to check that vnc is running
20:19	good night :)
20:19	<lonchiton> thanks
20:20	alexqwesa has joined #ltsp
20:20	Ahmuck-Jr has joined #ltsp
20:23	try2free has joined #ltsp
20:24	lonchiton has left #ltsp
20:27	sene has joined #ltsp
20:42	sene has quit IRC
20:44	Ahmuck-Jr has quit IRC
20:45	Ahmuck-Jr has joined #ltsp
20:48	try2free has left #ltsp
21:15	Sarten-X has quit IRC
21:27	vicd has joined #ltsp
21:41	Ahmuck-Jr has quit IRC
21:42	Ahmuck-Jr has joined #ltsp
21:43	<Ahmuck-Jr> fwiw, firefox crashed with flash on a 2ghz, 3gb thin client
22:20	rjune has joined #ltsp
22:27	yanu has quit IRC
22:27	yanu has joined #ltsp
22:34	kleewyck has quit IRC
22:42	Sarten-X has joined #ltsp
23:00	<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Jr: Yup, flash sucks.
23:01	It crashes quite a bit on my 3 ghz, 4 gig full fledged WORKSTATION at home, with a hard drive.
23:08	<Ahmuck-Jr> i've never had it lock the whole system up
23:10	admin_ has joined #ltsp
23:10	<sbalneav> I have
23:10	I had it latch my X up so bad, I had to ssh in from another box and reboot.
23:11	<Ahmuck-Jr> heh, i just press the reboot button
23:12	really though, from what i can see, a quad core server and hefty clients is what makes this ltsp thing work
23:15	Ahmuck-Jr has quit IRC
23:15	Ahmuck-Jr has joined #ltsp
23:16	<Ahmuck-Jr> sorry, missed the last tidbit, newegg images (flash) locked my browser up
23:22	admin_ has left #ltsp
23:23	vicd has quit IRC
23:25	vicd has joined #ltsp
23:26	alkisg has joined #ltsp
23:48	moquist has quit IRC
23:56	alibaba has joined #ltsp
23:57	mushroomtwo is now known as mushroomblue
23:57	<alibaba> Hello, do I understand right that LTSP does a distributed computing (the client runs the application)? Why else do I need an nfs mount of the user's /home trough nfs?