IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 11 August 2019 (all times are UTC)
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| 05:00 | <alkisg> (01:07:00 AM) rkwesk: I am working through updating documentation on ltsp with bullseye (will be Debian 11)
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| 05:00 | Richard, Debian 11 will probably have LTSP 19
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| 05:01 | So whatever documentation you're preparing now, won't apply. Just document Buster, not Bullseye
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| 05:07 | If a script is needed, I should include it to ltsp19; if using network manager is enough, I should documented in `man ltsp dnsmasq`; there shouldn't be much need for distro-specific tutorials in ltsp19
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| 05:16 | vagrantc: someone here claimed that we have a security issue in ltsp5; that if someone uses "fish" as a login shell, he logs in as root
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| 05:16 | Dunno if you care to test/re-release...
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| 05:17 | <vagrantc> seems highly improbably
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| 05:17 | improbable
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| 05:17 | in fact, if someone uses an alternate shell, login generally fails completely in my experience
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| 05:18 | <alkisg> (09:35:23 AM) uumas: Apparently ltsp5 logs anyone whose login shell isn't /bin/bash (or is /usr/bin/fish, didn't bother testing) in as root on clients. Took a moment to hunt that one down (one user logs in as root while everyone else is normal)
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| 05:18 | <vagrantc> easy enough to test
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| 05:19 | guess it could be error handling in one of the ldm login hooks or something
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| 05:19 | <alkisg> (10:12:16 AM) uumas: Was apparently much quicker to test than I thought. Submitted a report!
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| 05:20 | uumas: where? I don't see it in launchpad... I wonder if I have enough rights to see ltsp security issues though...
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| 05:26 | vagrantc: remind me please, shell is "arch:any", or "arch:all"?
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| 05:27 | * alkisg is constantly having a hard time remembering/googling this | |
| 05:27 | <vagrantc> could be either
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| 05:27 | <alkisg> The one that doesn't need rebuilding, I mean
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| 05:27 | That is built only once
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| 05:27 | <vagrantc> arch:all
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| 05:27 | <alkisg> Ty!
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| 05:28 | <vagrantc> "all" architectures are able to use the same package, "any" architecture could build a package.
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| 05:28 | * alkisg tries to find a few spare bytes in his mind to store that... | |
| 05:29 | <vagrantc> it almost makes sense in english, but it's very nuanced
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| 05:30 | <alkisg> Eh, "all" architectures are able to build the source package, while "any" of them can rebuild a binary if it needs... too much word playing for my non-native english...
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| 05:30 | <vagrantc> agreed, it's too subtle a distinction
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| 05:30 | * alkisg managed to stored that look up epoptes or ltsp19 the next time he needs it | |
| 05:30 | <alkisg> *store
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| 05:30 | <vagrantc> even for a native speaker
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| 07:27 | <uumas> alkisg: This is the bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1839431
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| 07:28 | It says "Only the security group can see this information"
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| 07:32 | I added you as a subscriber for the bug. Idk of that helps
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| 07:39 | <alkisg> uumas: I just tried it and I can see it, dunno if the subscription helped or not
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| 07:39 | uumas: please add vagrantc too; I'm too focused on ltsp19 now to re-focus on ltsp5...
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| 07:40 | thanks :)
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| 07:42 | <uumas> alkisg: Added
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| 14:52 | <alkisg> debian/control = something like https://termbin.com/0i3b
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| 16:28 | <mmarconm> anyone using ltsp on lubuntu 18.04, with lxqt ?
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| 20:01 | <alkisg> vagrantc: now with the usr merge... are we supposed to write #!/bin/sh or #!/usr/bin/sh ?
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| 20:19 | <uumas> alkisg: Not sure, but #/bin/sh is at least better for backwards compatibility and the symlinks aren't going away because literally everything depends on them.
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| 20:19 | <alkisg> uumas: I think fedora doesn't even have a /bin/sh symlink anymore; will need to re-check
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| 20:21 | <uumas> That couldn't possibly be
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| 20:27 | alkisg: Yeah, Fedora, Debian and Arch all have the entire /bin symlinked to /usr/bin
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| 20:27 | <alkisg> Great
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| 20:28 | Maybe I was looking in the initramfs; I do remember something weird about fedora, but not what it was
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| 20:29 | <uumas> alkisg: And (debian) systems upgraded from older versions still have it only in /bin/sh so you should definitely use that.
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| 20:30 | <alkisg> Dracut is fine too; dunno what I'm mis-remembering...
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| 20:30 | * vagrantc found the argument for /usr merge dubious | |
| 20:31 | <vagrantc> would have been better to move everything from /usr into /bin and /sbin
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| 20:32 | <uumas> Why did /usr/* exist in the first place when they already had equivalents in /
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| 20:32 | * alkisg would love it if the top dirs actually meant something useful; e.g. /usr => read only; /etc => host info; /var => writeable etc etc; in this sense, /bin would go into usr... | |
| 20:33 | <alkisg> E.g. ideally, it should be possible to install all debian buster arches into a single disk, and netboot any number of clients off of that
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| 20:33 | /usr/share would contain the arch:all packages, while the arch:any would go in /usr/<arch> or something (or /lib)
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| 20:38 | <uumas> alkisg: It's not really that common to need multiple arches under a single root. I can see that as being difficult to maintain (but could be wrong)
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| 20:39 | <alkisg> uumas: I think some concepts in FHS are oriented towards that separation though
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| 20:40 | <uumas> Could be, haven't dug too deep into it. There's chroot and debootstrap which mostly achieve the goal for the few purposes that need it though.
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| 20:42 | * alkisg has generated the first alpha version of "ltsp_19.08-1_all.deb"; enough for today, tomorrow the installation tests start :) | |
| 20:42 | <vagrantc> the reason for the /usr separation is historical and made sense at the time, largely due to the price of fast disks
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| 20:42 | <alkisg> -rw-r--r-- 1 alkisg alkisg 55K Αυγ 11 23:37 ltsp_19.08-1_all.deb ==> 55k, not bad :D
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| 20:43 | <uumas> alkisg: Oh nice :D But yeah nothing should ever depend on anything being in /usr/* that wasn't there before usr migration for the foreseeable future.
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| 20:44 | <alkisg> And having a very quick way to push things from /etc/ltsp/* to ltsp.img to the clients is very very handy... e.g. I put code to look for sshfs there, so that if it's not in a live cd, the sysadmin can just put the binary in /etc/ltsp/ssh-$(uname -m)
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| 20:44 | <uumas> And oh hey, same timezone
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| 20:44 | <alkisg> In the summer only!
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| 20:44 | I think in the winder we're different; we're UTC+02 here
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| 20:44 | <uumas> Same here
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| 20:44 | <alkisg> Ah, cool
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| 20:45 | <uumas> I think most of the world has summer time
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| 20:45 | Dunno about Asia
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| 20:45 | Or anything other than America/Europe for that matter
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| 20:46 | <vagrantc> relying on any particular PATH layout is asking for troubles...
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| 20:47 | <alkisg> PATH? About /etc? No if it's there, I symlink it to /usr/bin/sshfs
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| 20:50 | <vagrantc> assuming a system-wide PATH exists at all ... but i've been getting into more esoteric distros :)
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| 20:51 | * alkisg googles for distros named "soul searching debian" or similarly... | |
| 20:51 | <alkisg> ...what esoteric distros?!
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| 20:52 | <vagrantc> GNU Guix and NixOS
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| 20:52 | <alkisg> Heey that thing can run gnome? nice
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| 20:53 | <vagrantc> i think the only thing in an expected path is /bin/sh ... everything else is dynamically added to PATH at boot.
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| 20:53 | well, that's even an oversimplification... but anyways
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| 20:54 | solves the problem of weather to use /bin/foo vs. /usr/bin/foo in a very different way ... by discovery.
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| 20:55 | <alkisg> Well, packages could ship package/bin/ dir, package/sbin dir, package/man dir etc etc, and the "dpkg/installer/whatever" could just look there and update a master cache on installation/uninstallation
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| 20:55 | No need for global locations at all..
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| 20:58 | <vagrantc> well, that doesn't allow different users to have different versions installed :)
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| 20:58 | but probably best not to derail #ltsp further :)
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| 20:59 | <alkisg> There are system services and user services; system settings and user settings; system cache and user cache; no problems there...
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| 20:59 | Yeah, it's midnight anyway; pumpkin time
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| 21:00 | * vagrantc waves to alkisg | |
| 21:00 | * alkisg would wave, but ogra would say "shore" again :P | |
| 21:00 | <alkisg> ....so... goodnight!
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