IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Channel log from 10 November 2008 (all times are UTC)

00:00	<MM2> Hmm... we have this Shuttle barebone to test with ltsp and it has Marvell 88e8056 nic. It begins to boot, but it stops after a while. How I could compile nic-drivers to ltsp-kernels? Can it be done in 64-bit server? Client is 32-bit...
00:00	Barebone is K48
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05:01	<MM2> Hmm... we have this Shuttle barebone (K48) to test with ltsp and it has Marvell 88e8056 nic. It begins to boot, but it stops after a while. How I could compile nic-drivers to ltsp-kernels? Can it be done in 64-bit server? Client is 32-bit...
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05:16	<ogra> MM2, use your distros docs to compile a kernel ... compiling 32bit kenrles on a 64bt machine shouldnt be a problem inside a chroot
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05:44	<MM2> distro is ubuntu
05:45	But... If client boots up and loads kernel... and then it tries to load NIC driver and gets kernel panic
05:45	<ogra> well, there are docs on the wiki or help.ubuntu.com for kernel recompiling
05:45	<MM2> How I disable NIC specific driver loading?
05:45	<ogra> you blacklist it
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05:46	<MM2> How?
05:48	<ogra> put the driver name into a file you create in /etc/modprobe.d/ in the client chroot, run update-initramfs -u in the client chroot, run ltsp-update-kernels on the server
05:48	look at the other files in /etc/modprobe.d/ to see syntax examples
05:49	<MM2> did I ask right question? Could this solve problem?
05:51	<ogra> well, if a driver is missing, blacklisting wont help you
05:51	it removes drivers
05:52	<MM2> How to solve this problem then?
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05:53	<MM2> By compiling clients kernel with NIC driver build in to it?
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05:54	<ogra> you should only need the module, are you sure its actually missing ?
05:54	<MM2> no...
05:55	<ogra> well, check which driver would actually have to be used for that card and look if it isnt under /lib/modules in the chroot
05:56	if the driver is there but doesnt appear on boot, there might be a different problem
05:57	<MM2> http://mm.pastebin.com/m18df5db5 <- errors
05:57	problem is also that computer is not with me, I shall ask it to me and return with it here
05:58	<ogra> well, first do what i said above
05:58	find out which driver is needed by the card
05:59	<MM2> ok, I'll try that and then return
06:01	<cliebow> ogra:i spent most of theweekend trying to build an intrepid powerpc chroot..got throughthe absense of acpid in powerpc and found in the end with stgraber's help there apparently no squas built into the kernel..what is the best way to proceed from here..
06:01	<ogra> squashfs shouldnt be built into the kernel at all
06:01	its always been a module
06:02	<cliebow> so i need another pkg to provide it..
06:05	<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/daily-live/current/ indicates that there is a livecd ... since that uses squashfs it should be there and available
06:07	<cliebow> hmm...ill play with it today...i see a ubuntu pkg when googling..
06:07	im driving towork bbl
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08:19	<chrisinajar> Good morning!
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08:22	<AnyFile> Hi! I had translated some years ago the documentation into Italian (version 4.1). Now someone has reported me that there is a typograph error in the Italian text. How can I update and upload a new version of that manual?
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08:23	<ogra> notsure anyone cares for the 4.1 docs at all anymore, ltsp5 is in use since years
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08:25	<Ahmuck> ogra: not caring would mean they wouldn't be pointing out the typo error
08:25	<ogra> Ahmuck, not caring as in "nobody maintains it"
08:25	<Gadi> Ahmuck: cares for not cares about
08:25	* Gadi waves to ogra et al
08:25	<johnny> hello
08:26	<ogra> Gadi, hey, overcome your hangover ?
08:26	<Gadi> hehe
08:26	if ragnar can do it...
08:26	<johnny> ogra, yay for ubuntu kernel 2.6.27.. :( really nasty sata bug .. the last good kernel for me is from gutsy :(
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08:27	<johnny> actually i guess this sata bug is slightly less nasty than the last one :)
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08:27	<chrisinajar> Gadi: if francis can do it....
08:27	<johnny> the last one stopped my system from booting.. this one just cuts the transfer down to 3mb/s
08:27	<Gadi> chrisinajar: touche
08:27	as they say
08:27	;)
08:27	<rjune__> !g
08:27	<ltspbot> rjune__: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:27	<johnny> hello gadi..
08:27	<Gadi> rjune__: !!
08:27	johnny!
08:27	<johnny> sadly i could not join you gentlemen
08:27	hopefully next time
08:27	<chrisinajar> on the other hand, he also got like.... 12 hours of sleep :-P
08:27	<Gadi> rjune__: I dropped your name this weekend
08:28	<rjune__> How's life up in the big apple?
08:28	uh oh, on who?
08:28	<Gadi> chrisinajar: tell your warren to talk to rjune__
08:28	* johnny looks for warren
08:28	<Gadi> warren @ resara
08:28	<chrisinajar> Gadi: can do. He's still in maine right now doing some other stuff, but i think he'll be back home tomorrow...
08:28	<ogra> he wont have a hangover :) he rarely drinks
08:28	<rjune__> Gadi: you reccommended me to warren?
08:29	<Gadi> rjune__: yeah - warren @ resara
08:29	* johnny attacks warren
08:29	<rjune__> resara?
08:29	<Gadi> he's on a hunt for Indianians
08:29	;)
08:29	<warren> that isn't a word
08:29	<rjune__> I thought warren worked for redhat
08:29	<Gadi> that's this warren
08:29	now we have 2 warrens
08:29	:)
08:29	<rjune__> ah
08:29	hoosiers
08:29	<johnny> damn them warrens
08:29	<warren> stop making my IRC client throb
08:29	<Gadi> warren warren everywhere
08:29	<johnny> lol
08:30	<rjune__> LOL
08:30	<Gadi> and not a drop to drink
08:30	<ogra> which warren ?
08:30	<johnny> warren, well what do you expect when there are two?
08:30	<ogra> this warren ?
08:30	or that warren ?
08:30	<rjune__> Gadi: I was getting excited, I would love to work for redhat
08:30	<Gadi> for the joe sixpacks out there playing a drinking game .... "warren"
08:30	<warren> Gadi: that was a hilarious sketch
08:30	Gadi: Too bad she didn't win the election, many years of SNL skits that would have generated.
08:31	<Gadi> warren: yeah - comedians had a hard time making fun of the other candidates
08:31	:P
08:31	* ogra heard they want to sell her wardrobe on ebay now ?
08:32	<chrisinajar> yep.
08:32	<rjune__> Gadi: did you give him my phone # / email address too?
08:32	<Gadi> rjune__: no - told him to find u here
08:32	he's travelling atm
08:32	<rjune__> good thing I've been hanging out in here then, eh?
08:32	<Gadi> but, he'll track you down
08:32	hehe
08:32	<chrisinajar> He will indeed.
08:32	<Gadi> yeah - we missed you in Maine
08:33	<chrisinajar> though he's not very IRC active at all...
08:33	<Gadi> you know you are still invited to these things
08:33	<chrisinajar> as in: he just logged into IRC on wed for the first time...
08:33	<johnny> nubae, are you about?
08:34	<rjune__> yeah, I'll make it back one day, or at least send booze
08:34	<johnny> ltsp-build-client traps exit codes too harshly
08:34	<rjune__> I've got some really tasty mead
08:34	<Gadi> our resident goth
08:34	:D
08:34	<johnny> something like blah_blah_blah ; still makes ltsp-build-client fail
08:35	<ogra> its to intelligent to listen to blah_blah_blah ;)
08:35	<johnny> it's the ;
08:36	ltsp-build-client traps the error generated from blah_blah_blah and dies
08:36	even though we don't care about that error :)
08:36	<ogra> yeah, it surely can use some improvement
08:37	feel free to file an upstream bug, i'm willing to care
08:37	<johnny> i was trying nubae's fatclient script and had to try 5 times to make it work
08:37	commenting out bits here and there that should have failed gracefully
08:37	i didn't have any /etc/timezone for example..
08:37	that it was trying to copy over
08:37	<nubae> Im here
08:38	hardy or intrepid?
08:38	<johnny> intrepid
08:38	<ogra> you should always have /etc/timezone
08:38	<Gadi> johnny: oops
08:38	thats my mistake
08:38	<ogra> else something in your server went wrong already
08:38	<Gadi> it should be /etc/localtime
08:38	* Gadi fixes
08:38	<johnny> it does both
08:38	the time seems OK.. not sure why i don't have it :)
08:38	<nubae> hmmm, worked for me just fine without any tweaking as it did for others, what did u change/add?
08:39	<johnny> also.. the message about the admin user is not clear
08:39	i didn't understand what to type.. so i just made something up
08:39	<nubae> really... saying 'please choose a admin user that has administrative priveledges' isnt clear?
08:40	how would I word it better?
08:40	<Gadi> ah, wait - just noticed /etc/timezone waasnt in my last push
08:40	thats in the l-b-c scripts
08:40	<killsalad> hi all, how can I bound 2 nework cards in ubuntu - just can't find how to ?
08:41	<johnny> administrative privileges?
08:41	which user has administrative privileges? :)
08:41	<nubae> an admin user
08:41	<johnny> you mean is sudo capable?
08:41	<nubae> sure
08:41	<johnny> the main user on the server is called infoshopkeeper
08:41	<ogra> killsalad, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LinkAggregation ?
08:41	<nubae> should I write sudo capable?
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08:41	<johnny> no.. i just wnated to know what you mean
08:41	<nubae> yeah then just write him in
08:42	it will use his details as the main sysadmin on the fatclient, although it also copies over everyone else too, its just one users needs to be sudoed for a couple things, dont remember what
08:42	<johnny> my server is down atm.. trying to find what else i copied
08:42	waiting for it to restart
08:43	<killsalad> ogra: thanks
08:43	<nubae> so graceful check to see if /etc/timezone is in there... I'll add that
08:43	johnny: havent had many testers...
08:44	<rjune__> Gadi: think I should give warren a ring?
08:44	* nubae just found mysql doesnt encode to utf8 by default
08:44	<nubae> how 90s....
08:44	:D
08:44	<warren> damn it
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08:46	<johnny> nubae, i had to comment this out
08:46	#chroot $ROOT update-rc.d -f laptop-mode remove ; chroot $ROOT update-rc.d laptop-mode start 99 2 3 4 5 . stop 20 0 1 6 .
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08:46	<ogra> whats that for even ?
08:46	laptop-mode is a no-op
08:47	unless you explicitly enable it in /etc/default
08:47	<killsalad> Bounding requires some extra switch setup?
08:47	<rjune__> warren: I can call you if you like. but I don't think you're looking for folks from IN
08:47	<ogra> yes
08:49	<nubae> might be remnants from the workstation script that I based it on
08:49	* johnny has never heard of this oddjob thing before
08:50	<nubae> johnny: did bluetooth go through for you? on hardy it doesnt
08:50	<johnny> i think so
08:50	i have yet to actually boot off this
08:51	i only finished it in time for the meeting to be over and go home
08:51	<nubae> oh :-)
08:51	<johnny> since i had to run it a few different times
08:51	<nubae> yeah, I'll make sure I fix that... was there anything else?
08:51	<chrisinajar> rjune__: so why does Warren@Resara want to talk to you? (me == resara, also)
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08:52	<johnny> oddjob-mkhomedir
08:52	This package contains the oddjob helper which can be used by the pam_oddjob_mkhomedir module to create a home directory for a user at login-time.
08:53	<kwak> anyone knows how to block JonDo?
08:53	<johnny> huh?
08:53	<kwak> it's a proxy bypassing software.
08:54	<johnny> your users are smart
08:54	<kwak> i found out that one of my students using it.
08:54	<johnny> whoa
08:56	<kwak> not really. hehehe, i found out about it so not really smart. anyone can download a portable JonDo and run it without installation for windows. in Linux, just logon to a site which will do the same thing
08:56	<johnny> block the site ..
08:56	with some dansguardian or whatever is popular these days..
08:56	<kwak> i have a filtering web proxy, and it blocks the proxies, but still the portable ones are still not blocked.
08:56	<johnny> on windows?
08:56	<nubae> open DNS is probably the easiest
08:57	<kwak> yes blocking sites will work.
08:57	<rjune__> chrisinajar: dunno, Gadi said he dropped my name over the weekend
08:57	<cliebow_> rjune__!!!!!
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08:57	<rjune__> cliebow_!
08:57	<cliebow_> missed you..
08:58	<rjune__> chrisinajar: I'm assuming because you guys are trying to do work in Indiana
08:58	<cliebow_> chrisinajar, !!!
08:58	<chrisinajar> rjune__: we are indeed. Actually, Brendan and Warren are heading out there in a few days...
08:58	cliebow_!!
08:58	<rjune__> chrisinajar: where at in Indiana?
08:59	<chrisinajar> cliebow_: I'll admit it, I don't know the username->realname conversion for that one :-P
08:59	<cliebow_> cripes..now powerpc mouse and kbd are borked..and no ttys..
08:59	<chrisinajar> rjune__: I'm not sure, Brendan will be in here in a few minutes... He knows more about it than myself...
08:59	<cliebow_> chrisinajar, cliebow = chuck liebow..old buy.scruffy beard..
08:59	<chrisinajar> oh yes :)
08:59	<rjune__> old buy?
08:59	<ogra> cliebow, make sure hal and dbus are in the image
08:59	<cliebow_> heee!
09:00	<chrisinajar> Long time no see :-P
09:00	<ogra> and actually run
09:00	<rjune__> what you buying? I got bridge
09:01	<cliebow_> ogra:thing worked perfectly at breakfast..turned off..then back on at work..i will look into..but have no ctrl-alt-f2 tty
09:01	<ogra> right, sounds like hal isnt up
09:01	<cliebow_> no ctrl-alt-f2 when it was working prfectly
09:02	* cliebow_ cliebow reboots to watch flashy lettering go by
09:06	<cliebow_> ogra:this is standalone powerpc server..not client
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09:29	<pscheie> morning all
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09:33	<cliebow_> pscheie, Hey! get home ok?
09:35	<pscheie> eventually
09:35	plane was late arriving in Bangor, which made us late getting into Detroit, such that I missed my connection back to Mpls.
09:35	<cliebow_> figures...
09:36	<pscheie> took a later flight, which utlimately cost me $50 for a cab home from the airport rather than my wife & son picking me which was the original plan
09:37	<cliebow_> sorry to hear..great talking to you this weekend..
09:37	<pscheie> there were a bunch of other people on the flight who were continuing on past Mpls whose plans really got screwed up by it
09:37	yeah, I had a great time, looking forward to next year's already
09:39	<cliebow_> i am almost over the post-partum depression..i suppose it is good to realize once in a while you dont know what you are doing
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09:41	<pscheie> it will take me a few days to get over it;
09:41	<rjune_> chrisinajar: brenden show up?
09:41	<pscheie> I'm always a bit jealous of folks like you who get to do ltsp as part of your day job
09:41	<chrisinajar> rjune_: he's putting back together his workstation right now...
09:42	<pscheie> chrisinajar, did warren find his way to wherever he was going, or did you give him back his GPS?
09:43	<chrisinajar> pscheie: i had to give him back his GPS -- I barely made it back to keene :-P
09:43	<pscheie> lost in America ;-)
09:44	glad I didn't have to do any driving and that fgiraldeau had a GPS or getting there would have been a nightmare I suspect
09:44	<rjune_> driving in the us isn't bad
09:44	specially out in the boonies
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09:46	<chrisinajar> brendan0powers: rjune_
09:47	<rjune_> brendan0powers: where in indiana are you guys coming?
09:47	<brendan0powers> rjune_: indianapolis
09:47	<rjune_> ah well
09:47	that's a bit north of me
09:48	I'm assuming you're coming to visit Huffman
09:48	<brendan0powers> were actually going to an educational conference as a vendor
09:49	<rjune_> oh, hecc
09:49	I forgot that was coming up
09:52	brendan0powers: gadi apparently told warran that he should talk to me as you're looking for folks in Indiana
09:52	<brendan0powers> rjune_: yes, we are
09:52	we've talked to huffman before, but it didn't really go very far
09:52	so were not looking for vars in the aria
09:53	<rjune_> what are you looking for in the area?
09:53	Huffman doesn't really directly control a lot
09:53	<brendan0powers> yea
09:53	<rjune_> and politically, he probably can't be seen to favor any one vendor
09:54	<brendan0powers> yea, we were trying to figure out what parts of our product were covered by the grant
09:54	<rjune_> dunno.
09:54	There's a lot of novell in the state though, so working with novell would be good
09:57	so what are you guys looking for in the area?
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09:58	<brendan0powers> rjune_: were looking for customers, as well as resellers in idiana
09:59	<rjune_> ah. can't help there.
09:59	I'm not in a position to be either.
10:01	<brendan0powers> any idea why gadi wanted us to talk to you?
10:01	:)
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10:07	<rjune_> brendan0powers: not really, gadi didn't say
10:08	<ogra> he always tries to fight the loneliness in the world :)
10:08	<rjune_> heh
10:08	I thought he meant tagomi when he said warrn at first
10:08	<brendan0powers> ha
10:09	<rjune_> yeah
10:09	I didn't know there were two
10:12	<brendan0powers> he probably won't be hanging out on irc much, so hopefully that will keep the confusion to a minimum
10:12	<stgraber> hey there
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10:31	<pscheie> hey stgraber, you fgiraldeau make it home okay?
10:35	<stgraber> yeah, we arrived at 8:30pm, was quite fast
10:35	ogra: did you see my mail about my MOTU membership ?
10:36	<ogra> stgraber, yeah, sorry, didnt comment yet
10:36	so much backlog
10:37	<stgraber> np, just wanted to make sure it didn't get lost somewhere (I had some SMTP issue as I moved everything to a new box)
10:37	<ogra> ah
10:37	how was the drinking^Whackfest ?
10:38	<stgraber> it was fun and we did quite a lot of work actually, the food+drink of saturday night was fun too (especially fgiraldeau :))
10:38	<ogra> heh
10:39	yeah, he i easily getting drunk, i remember that
10:39	<CAN-o-SPAM> fgiraldeau has proven to be the LTSP Lobster eating champion! :)
10:39	<ogra> *is
10:39	haha
10:40	he was already last year, did he extend his record ?
10:41	<CAN-o-SPAM> i'm fairly sure he ate 75% of the 20 or so tamales + his own lobster(s)
10:41	<ogra> heh, yeah, thats more than last year
10:42	<warren> BTW, I'm ripping out the thing in ltsp that prevents you from running a screen script on VT1
10:43	<CAN-o-SPAM> warren: what is your e-mail?
10:43	<warren> wtogami@redhat.com
10:43	<ogra> warren, please dont, it breaks with usplash and splashy
10:43	<warren> ogra: only if somebody sets it that way.
10:44	<ogra> and i think upstart also relies on tty1 being used as /dev/console
10:44	<warren> ogra: Fedora 10 runs X on VT1 (and nothing else), I want to make F10 LTSP match, so there's no flicker between modeset and X
10:44	<ogra> right, thats why we had put it in
10:44	<warren> I'm ripping it out
10:44	<ogra> please dont
10:44	<warren> Seriously, if somebody screws themselves, tell them "Don't do that."
10:45	<ogra> can you please at least discuss it on the ML before breaking it for others ?
10:45	<warren> You're preventing me from allowing flicker free boot
10:45	ogra: Gadi already ripped that out from his ltsp
10:45	<johnny> warren, yeah.. for fedora..
10:45	<ogra> and you break exisisting technology
10:45	<warren> Ripping out that prohibition isn't going to break you at all
10:45	your default configs don't use SCREEN_01
10:46	<ogra> it breaks as soon as you set SCREEN_01
10:46	<warren> just don't do it?
10:46	<ogra> theer is no default confog at all
10:46	but all old ltsp 4 docs use SCREEN_01 for setting stuff
10:46	<warren> And Gadi indicated that you're wrong about it breaking if you use VT1
10:46	He's been doing it that way by default for years
10:46	<ogra> its very likely that users use it
10:46	<johnny> we can't hold back forever tho..
10:47	<ogra> and btw sbalneav added that code
10:47	<warren> is sbalneav home yet?
10:47	<stgraber> ogra: what breaks ? starting X on tty1 or just doing anything with tty1 during the boot process ?
10:47	* ogra has no idea, but such a move needs really discussion on the ML imho
10:47	<Q-FUNK> warren: ubuntu makes a shitload of assumption about what happens with vt1 and things like where the LSB boot scripts output their shit to. might be safer to ask, instead of silently rip it out.
10:48	<warren> Q-FUNK: this is a prohibition based upon faulty assumptions about it breaking, gadi indicated that it isn't really a problem on Ubuntu, and it is directly counter to what I need in Fedora.
10:48	<ogra> Q-FUNK, s/ubuntu/upstart, splashy (debian) and usplash/g
10:48	<Q-FUNK> ogra: I'm not sure if it's upstart as much as how usplash messily redirects too many things to spare vt.
10:49	<ogra> initially the change was added on request of Keybuk for upstart
10:49	<Q-FUNK> personally, usplash has been nothing but a source of trouble, on both debian and ubuntu.
10:49	<warren> fine, I'll make it a runtime conditional for fedora only...
10:49	I don't have time to argue
10:49	<ogra> if you can make sure nothing breaks if a user sets SCREEN_01=shell i'm totally fine to change that
10:50	if you cant make sure it doesnt break please discuss such a change first
10:50	<Q-FUNK> and allthough it's off-topic, looking back, upstart was a bad idea. amazing that fedora adopted it too.
10:50	* ogra usually makes such changes in the packages as patches instead of breaking the world for everyone
10:51	<ogra> upstart is a very good idea and fedora did well to adopt it
10:51	<warren> ogra: I have zero patches in my package
10:51	100% upstream
10:51	<ogra> warren, well ...
10:51	<warren> upstart is lacking dbus event signaling
10:51	<ogra> just dont break upstream
10:52	well, and there are still a million of sysvinit scripts to be ported before upstart gains anyone any benefits
10:52	it simply takes a lot trasition time
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10:54	<ogra> warren, you should really consider patches for time pressing issues late in the release cycle
10:54	killsalad has quit IRC
10:54	<ogra> its not that hard to pull them in upstrea post release
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10:55	<warren> I'm fully comfortable with the way I operate
10:55	this upstream release methodology allows for this
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10:56	<devilbues> Hi can anybody tell me how do I activate local devices on rdesktop script?
10:56	<johnny> warren, you might be comfortable.. doesn't mean everybody else is
10:56	this is a community iirc :)
10:56	<warren> johnny: have I broken anything for other distros?
10:57	<johnny> not yet :)
10:57	just saying that you should listen to people's concerns
10:58	<ogra> warren, our upstream policy was always that upstream shouldnt be a moving target but only get fuly tested code that works on all distros
10:58	<warren> In the case of SCREEN_01, these concerns are incorrect.
10:58	<ogra> did you test it ?
10:58	<warren> yes
10:58	<ogra> on debian or ubuntu
10:58	<warren> I understand your concerns, so I am doing it as a conditional so fedora is excluded.
10:58	<johnny> sure.. but if a respected community member thinks you should bring it up on a list, then maybe you should
10:59	then we wouldn't have to have the conditional
10:59	<warren> Fedora uses an entirely different splash mechanism
10:59	<ogra> well, if its sane to remove it it might make sense to remove it for everyone
10:59	<warren> that might have something to do with it being no problem here
10:59	<ogra> but i really would prefer to not have such quick last minute shots in upstream
10:59	<warren> Gadi indicated however that it has been no problem for him on Ubuntu for years too
10:59	<ogra> thats why package patches exist
10:59	<warren> ogra: why do you care if my change doesn't change your behavior at all?
11:00	ogra: and you are not even pulling from upstream now anyway
11:00	<ogra> i do, jaunty development is open now
11:00	<warren> ok
11:00	but it wont change your behavior at all
11:00	<ogra> nothing i couldnt revert the next six months though
11:01	well, if it makes sense to have it in ubuntu i'd like to have it, i can only rely on the pointer from upstart upstream
11:01	and on scotts change which i think had a reason
11:01	<devilbues> Hi can anybody tell me how do I activate local devices, USB sticks, with rdesktop script?
11:01	<ogra> just reverting it would be to quick without getting feedback from all distros
11:02	* johnny knows nothing about rdesktop
11:02	<stgraber> warren: can you easily make it only apply for fedora for now ? So we can easily check what'd be the effect on Ubuntu/Debian/other distros
11:02	<ogra> and just adding a per distro hack just to circumventa quick shot for one distro seems unclean for upstream
11:02	such a last minute change belongs in a distro package patch
11:02	<warren> get over it
11:02	I'm doing it.
11:02	<ogra> or needs to be considered early enough
11:03	<stgraber> warren: I know some of our customers would like it (tty1=ldm, tty2=rdesktop, ...) so I can find some time to test it in Ubuntu
11:03	<warren> stgraber: just comment out the conditional to test it
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11:04	<ogra> great
11:04	make sure vagrant is aware though
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11:04	<ogra> he is still in pre release freeze and might pull from upstream
11:04	<warren> the codepath it is in, it wont even slow down other distros at all
11:04	<ogra> so hacks might bother him
11:05	<warren> debian wont even hit this codepath
11:05	* ogra doesnt care about slowness, but hackish stuff
11:05	<ogra> if we can do it for all of us, fine
11:05	but make sure it works for all of us
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11:06	<ogra> doing conditionals is a hack we should avoid if possible, and as i said is something i'd consider something belonging into a package patch
11:07	<warren> I understand your concern, but I wont do it that way.
11:07	ogra: what if half of the distros want to use VT1 in this way? all of them should have a patch?
11:08	<ogra> raping the upstream branch for a last minute distro fix is definately not what i call proper upstream coding
11:08	no, if half of them need it we need a conditional
11:08	<warren> "raping" is hyperbole
11:08	you're making a big deal out of nothing
11:08	<ogra> i just say its a matter that needs to be discussed enough in advance
11:08	if you cant do that do it in a patch
11:09	<warren> I'm not changing your behavior at all
11:09	how does that require discussion?
11:09	<Q-FUNK> warren: a lot of people agree with the overall idea of using vt1 for GUI, but other distros are not there yet. pulling the carpet from under people's feet is not the right way to achive it.
11:09	<warren> Q-FUNK: I'm not pulling the carpet
11:09	Q-FUNK: I'm not changing your behavior at all
11:09	alkisg has quit IRC
11:09	<ogra> Q-FUNK, he isnt pulling the carpet but adding a hack
11:09	which could be avoided if there was enough time for discussion
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11:10	<warren> I added far worse hacks than this that were subsequently removed
11:10	<ogra> i'm just disagreeing about adding a hack because someone refuses to treat last minute in distro changes as the thing they are and forces them in upstream, while we others dont
11:11	<warren> You are seriously overreacting.
11:11	<Q-FUNK> anythign particulary wrong with a conditional, if it makes it possible for warren to get his release done? anyhow, lenny+1 and jauty are not here yet, so there's time.
11:11	<ogra> well, i will stop using any patches in and ubuntu packages i touch in the future as well then
11:11	s/and/any/
11:11	<warren> that's fine with me, just don't break it for other distros
11:12	<ogra> which i did over the last years to not dump things into upstrem before having had proper tests and discussion
11:12	that will massively degrade quality
11:12	<warren> I disagree
11:13	<ogra> we once agreed to not do that upstream
11:13	<warren> did we?
11:13	<ogra> yes
11:13	<warren> I don't push anything upstream that I haven't tested, and if I'm unsure if it will break others I ask.
11:13	<ogra> upstream was supposed to always have clean code and to work on all distros
11:13	<warren> I need to go now.
11:14	<ogra> well, please check with stgraber who offered testing before pushing
11:14	so we get the cleanest possible solution
11:14	and make sue to also test with vagrant
11:14	*sure
11:15	<Q-FUNK> stgraber: you guys base your millex port on ubuntu?
11:15	<stgraber> need to go fetch some food, coming back soon
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11:16	<warren> staffencasa: I intend to put ldm on VT1, you could test that
11:16	oops
11:16	stgraber: ^^
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11:16	<ogra> Q-FUNK, it already is based on ubuntu
11:17	alkisg has joined #ltsp
11:18	<Q-FUNK> ah
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12:00	chrisinajar is now known as chrisinajar\|lunc
12:09	<Ahmuck> i have an amd64 server, and i386 clients. do i have to build seperatly?
12:09	<johnny> just set --arch i386
12:09	many other distros default to i386 on amd64.. but not ubuntu yet
12:09	to ltsp-build-client
12:09	<Ahmuck> ah. i'll bet that was my problem with my clients the other day
12:10	i'll try again tonight and see if i can't fix that
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12:23	<Gadi> wow... I walk away for a mtg, and I miss all the excitement
12:23	:)
12:23	<cliebow_> heh..
12:23	you and i should moderator..give out yellow cards
12:23	<Gadi> hehe
12:24	fwiw - I think 'erroring out' on SCREEN_01 was useful during a v4 to v5 transition period
12:25	Basti_dash has joined #ltsp
12:25	<Gadi> but, it is an inappropriate error case to be in upstream
12:25	as the error does not exist on all distros
12:26	and the ability to handle X on tty1 is completely a distro-specific thing
12:27	lunchtime...
12:29	<cliebow_> about time..
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12:44	<rjune_> Gadi: what did warran want to talk to me about?
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12:46	<warren> Gadi: sbalneav: ogra: vagrantc: I want to tag ltsp-trunk and ldm-trunk soon
12:56	<jc2it> In /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/ltsp/screen.d I have created a custom script that runs a terminal emulator via telnet. In my lts.conf file I have added a line that assigns the scritp to run on SCREEN_03. This works fine, but I want to make the script run on the default SCREEN. How is this specified?
12:57	<warren> jc2it: switch to fedora which allows that, Ubuntu/Debian do not allow that
12:57	<Gadi> rjune_: they have interest in Indiana schools - I wanted to get you involved as my favorite Hoosier :) Dig deep. I think you know more than you know (how Zen)
12:58	<jc2it> What do I change in Ubuntu to allow that?
12:58	<Gadi> jc2it: screen scripts are a race condition - you cannot determine which screen will come up by default
12:58	jc2it: and graphical screen will always steal focus
12:59	warren: can you test the timezone code I pushed this morning?
12:59	<warren> Gadi: yes, hold
12:59	<vagrantc> wow, i didn't even have to complain about switching -a to && :)
13:00	<Gadi> vagrantc: yeah, and I changed my timezone code accordingly for u before I pushed ;)
13:00	<warren> anybody against tagging?
13:00	<vagrantc> Gadi: ?
13:00	<Gadi> vagrantc: I pushed to ltsp-trunk this morning
13:00	<vagrantc> ah, i didn't get to the timezone code yet
13:00	<Gadi> support for TIMEZONE and TIMESERVER params
13:01	<vagrantc> cool.
13:01	<jc2it> I have tried not specifying a graphical screen in the lts.conf file, but it just blinks a cursor at me.
13:01	<Gadi> in which I had used -a in my code (so changed it)
13:01	why is -a against policy?
13:01	<jc2it> Other than loging into the GUI and creating a login script what are my options?
13:02	<Gadi> jc2it: add a chvt to your script
13:02	<vagrantc> Gadi: it's not POSIX sh
13:02	<Gadi> really?
13:02	wow
13:02	<vagrantc> might be part of the XSI extensions
13:02	* Gadi never would have thought
13:03	<vagrantc> dash and bash implement it, but there are a few obscure shells that don't, and it's not so difficult to use &&
13:03	<Gadi> yeah
13:03	<jc2it> Thanks i will look at that, I am not familiar with chvt. It looks promising though
13:03	<Gadi> just needed to be careful with my ['s
13:03	<vagrantc> yeah
13:05	<Q-FUNK> ][
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13:20	<warren> dash question
13:20	echo "foo" 2> /dev/null is OK?
13:23	<vagrantc> should be.
13:23	presuming by ok, you mean that errors should go to /dev/null
13:24	<Gadi> warren: I usually do: echo "hi" 2>/dev/null
13:24	(no space after >)
13:24	not sure if there's a diff
13:24	<vagrantc> oh yeah! "hi" works, but "foo" breaks with dash.
13:24	<Gadi> hehe
13:25	<warren> "foo" isn't POSIX compliant?
13:25	chrisinajar\|lunc is now known as chrisinajar
13:26	<vagrantc> yeah, i think POSIX standard requires blarg umpf chat blah where most people would use foo bar baz bat
13:26	that wacky POSIX
13:27	Lns has quit IRC
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13:29	* vagrantc is wondering if soonish would be appropriate to bump the revision numbers a bit ... i.e. ltsp 5.2, ldm 2.1 or whatever
13:30	nicoAMG has joined #ltsp
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13:31	<hallmant> Hi everyone! Does anyone know how to get Audacity to work on LTSP 5? I've been reading lots about pulseaudio and esc and jack and whatnot, but I'm afraid it starts going over my head. When I run "padsp audacity" I get this error: Expression 'ioctl( devHandle, SNDCTL_DSP_CHANNELS, &temp )' failed in 'src/hostapi/oss/pa_unix_oss.c', line: 397
13:31	* Gadi would like to move the while-loop for respawning the screen scripts into screen_session and out of individual scripts
13:31	<Gadi> any objections?
13:32	<vagrantc> Gadi: hmmm...
13:32	Gadi: currently there's some things we do inside the while loop and some things we do outside ... that would cause things to be redone multiple times
13:32	maybe that's a good thing, maybe not.
13:32	<Gadi> vagrantc: I can take care to do things intelligently
13:33	<vagrantc> Gadi: i'm not questioning that :)
13:33	<Gadi> but, it is a step in the direction of getting updated session settings from a server on the fly
13:33	that would take effect upon logging out of a session
13:33	bobby_C has joined #ltsp
13:33	<Gadi> or ctrl-alt-backspace
13:34	this is what ltsp-cluster achieves
13:34	<vagrantc> oh, i see what you mean ... not the ldminfod related session settings, but other stuff
13:34	<Gadi> right
13:34	like say I want to change from ldm to rdesktop
13:34	ctrl-alt-backspace and bam
13:34	Im in windows
13:34	without a reboot
13:35	or logout from Linux and bam im in windows
13:35	actually
13:35	<rjune_> Gadi: depends on what they want
13:35	I can't be a reseller or customer right now
13:35	<Gadi> rjune_: dig deeper
13:35	;P
13:36	vendors benefit from advocates as much as customers
13:37	<rjune_> heh
13:37	<Gadi> advocates follow the same rule of thumb as real estate - location, location, location
13:37	sbalneav aint the only booth-babe in our midst
13:37	;)
13:40	<rjune_> my ass doesn't look as good as his
13:40	<chrisinajar> have any more pictures been uploaded from bts?
13:40	<Gadi> more? /me has not seen pics
13:40	<chrisinajar> Preferably scott's and warren's... pretty sure they both took some good ones...
13:40	Gadi: warren's blog post has 1 picture :-P
13:40	<Gadi> ah
13:41	<chrisinajar> of the LABSTAH dinner...
13:42	i need to get my ldm code on launchpad....
13:42	<Gadi> man, I feel drunk just looking at that pic
13:42	<chrisinajar> i really like trask in that picture...
13:42	<Gadi> chrisinajar: did you finish it?
13:42	Lns has joined #ltsp
13:42	<chrisinajar> Gadi: untested, but yeah, i finished it while at BTS...
13:43	<Gadi> cool
13:43	we love untested code
13:43	;)
13:43	push it
13:43	<chrisinajar> the greeter needs a bit more work, but the ldm part is completely ported over to the new protocol...
13:43	so right it A) is not tested B) will break the gtk greeter...
13:43	* chrisinajar is useful :)
13:44	<Gadi> did you mention your efforts to ogra? I am sure he would be interested
13:44	<chrisinajar> ogra: brendan and i are almost done writing a themable qt based greeter, using a new much-more-sane io protocol for talking to the greeter from LDM
13:44	<Gadi> ogra: chrisinajar and brendan0powers were working on a Qt-based greeter with a modified messaging protocol to ldm.c
13:44	doh
13:44	<chrisinajar> i beat you!
13:44	<Gadi> hehe
13:45	<chrisinajar> it was mostly ldm_iface.c that needed changing..
13:45	* Lns just configured SCREEN_02 to automatically launch Zork I =D
13:45	<chrisinajar> Lns: i read your name as "ln -s"
13:46	<Lns> chrisinajar: :p I'm so linky
13:46	<brendan0powers> we havn't quite done the 'themable' part yet
13:46	but if you happen to enjoy some really ugly nested frames, its perfect:)
13:47	<chrisinajar> and it's untested
13:47	and doesn't launch the new greeter at all
13:48	<rjune_> Gadi: you can drink right?
13:48	<chrisinajar> in fact, right now it lauches the old greeter which doesn't support the new protocol, so there's no way it can work as of yet...
13:50	<brendan0powers> I'm pretty sure implementing theeming will be a one night project
13:50	<chrisinajar> well, all that's left is testing and some more gui stuff..
13:50	<brendan0powers> i just have to figure out how to load SVG images
13:51	aparently its really easy, i've just never done it
13:51	rjune_: yes, he can drink:)
13:52	<chrisinajar> oh, and the theme part is sane and simple... it's not as flexible as like, GDM themes, but it will be rediculously easy to work with and flexible //enough//
13:52	as in, no insane protocol... it's all ini format...
13:53	K_O-Gnom has joined #ltsp
13:53	<brendan0powers> actually, there is QT syle sheet file
13:53	in addition to the ini file
13:53	for chanign font color, and button backgrounds etc..
13:54	<Gadi> hehe
13:55	sorry - was on ph
13:56	<rjune_> Gadi: I have to send you some homemade mead
13:59	<Gadi> rjune_: beer-style or wine-style?
13:59	not all mead is created equal
14:00	<rjune_> wine style
14:00	<Gadi> grapes?
14:00	or just honey?
14:00	<rjune_> nope
14:00	at the moment I have some just honey, some oaked
14:00	some blueberry, some raspberry
14:00	some blueberry wine, some mixed berry wine
14:00	<Gadi> casks used for anything other than mead?
14:01	in the past?
14:01	<rjune_> no casks
14:01	all glass jugs
14:01	<Gadi> beautiful
14:01	<rjune_> toasted oak cubes
14:01	<Gadi> cool
14:01	Id love some
14:01	is it yummy?
14:02	u know, mead is what made Winnie The Pooh so damn stupid
14:03	<rjune_> it is yummy
14:05	I have just a little bit of orange mead too but it's all spoken for
14:05	I think I may make more of it though
14:06	<chrisinajar> Gadi: so who is ogra and why would he particularly find the greeter thing interesting?
14:06	when it comes to ltsp community, i really only know the people who went to bts :-P
14:06	<Gadi> ogra is Ubuntu LTSP incarnate :) And he has been working on a gtk-fixed greeter in his spare time atm
14:07	seems it is greeter season
14:07	;)
14:07	<chrisinajar> what's the license supposed to be on this stuff?
14:07	because qt's license might be incompatible with it :-P
14:08	qt == dual license /w gpl (meaning not lgpl)
14:08	Basti_dash has quit IRC
14:10	<johnny> huh?
14:10	compatible with which?
14:10	<chrisinajar> i dunno what the license status of ltsp is, other than "open source"... :-P
14:11	<rjune_> Gadi: so you likey honey wine, eh?
14:14	<vagrantc> chrisinajar: most of it is GPL
14:14	<chrisinajar> vagrantc: awesome.
14:15	<vagrantc> i think mostly GPL v2+ ... not sure anyone's made a push for v3
14:16	<chrisinajar> vagrantc: does ltsp have anything against lgpl or other licenses that support closed and open source?
14:18	as if it matters, because what I'm writing needs to be GPL because it's Qt but....
14:18	* vagrantc prefers GPL to anything else
14:18	<chrisinajar> if i write something that //could// be lgpl, then i would prefer it to be.... imho, if i'm going to give code away, i want to give it to everyone...
14:19	<vagrantc> even the free software foundation discourages use of the LGPL these days
14:20	<chrisinajar> yeah but does ltsp?
14:20	<vagrantc> as an active upstream LTSP developer, it would displease me a little, yes.
14:20	<chrisinajar> ok, I'll keep it
14:20	GPL then :)
14:21	<vagrantc> i don't really see who misses out on GPL vs LGPL other than folks who want to take and not give back
14:22	i can't speak for all the LTSP developers, mind you
14:23	<brendan0powers> lgpl only really makes sense for libraries
14:23	<chrisinajar> yeah, i understand that argument I just personally disagree with it. I believe that free software should be free for both comercial and non-comercial software developers.
14:23	indeed
14:23	<vagrantc> GPL is not non-commercial
14:23	that's comparing apples to oranges
14:24	<chrisinajar> there should be a half lgpl license :-P... GPL but commercial closed source can still link to it...
14:24	so that changes made still need to be released, but closed source can link to it
14:25	<warren> [warren@newcaprica k12linux]$ bzr push
14:25	Using saved push location: bzr+ssh://wtogami@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/
14:25	Permission denied (publickey).
14:25	<brendan0powers> that's what lgpl essentially is
14:25	<warren> If I've been kicked out of LTSP upstream, I'm forking.
14:25	<brendan0powers> you didn't here, there was a vote...
14:28	<Gadi> lol
14:28	warren: that happened to me at hackfest
14:29	are you pushing from your usual machine?
14:29	<sbalneav> Afternoon all
14:29	<warren> Gadi: yes
14:29	<chrisinajar> i think gobby should ship with ltsp...
14:29	i know just the version!!
14:29	<Gadi> warren: maybe its on lp's side
14:29	loather-work has quit IRC
14:30	<Gadi> warren: what happens if you use lp:~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk
14:30	<warren> Gadi: it works now
14:30	<Gadi> yeah - just got the email
14:31	<sbalneav> fgiraldeau: You about, Francis?
14:31	hello Warren, vagrantc, gadi, chrisinajar brendan0powers et al.
14:31	<Gadi> !s
14:32	<ltspbot> Gadi: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
14:32	<warren> sbalneav: how do you feel about me tagging ldm-trunk soon?
14:32	<chrisinajar> sbalneav: Howdy :)
14:32	<sbalneav> warren: well, I'd REALLY like to figure out why vagrantc's still having problems, but if HE's ok with that, I'm ok.
14:33	<warren> sbalneav: he's having logout problems?
14:33	<sbalneav> yeah, apparently
14:33	<warren> sbalneav: if ANYTHING is still using the socket it wont close right?
14:33	<sbalneav> vagrantc: Still, I'm assuming?
14:33	Well, I don't know. Certainly Ubuntu and Fedora don't seem to have the problem.
14:34	<vagrantc> sbalneav: not positive i've tested with the latest ldm-trunk, let me check.
14:34	<sbalneav> when I got home tomorrow, I was going to set up a Lenny box and try to figure out what's causing it.
14:34	warren: I guess my question is: why the rush to tag?
14:35	<warren> sbalneav: I want to build something now
14:35	<vagrantc> in lenny, i included a patch to enable/disable the "kill -1 $PPID" stuff ...
14:35	<sbalneav> ah, a "LDM_FIX_BROKEN_LOGOUT"?
14:35	<vagrantc> and that seemed to work in lenny, last i checked.
14:35	LDM_FORCE_LOGOUT boolean
14:36	setting it to false in then used rc.d/K* scripts to call "ssh -O exit" appropriately
14:36	<sbalneav> warren: what, you can't build something without it being tagged? I'm fine with it, as it seems to affect distros more than it does me. If vagrantc's ok with it, so am I
14:36	<vagrantc> and didn't call "kill -1 $PPID"
14:36	<warren> sbalneav: tags are meaningless
14:37	sbalneav: this tag is just a point in time
14:37	<sbalneav> Then tag
14:37	<vagrantc> not meaningless... it means it's useful to at least one distro
14:37	<warren> vagrantc: perhaps you can use something like lsof to see what process is still attached to the socket?
14:38	<vagrantc> i can kill all processes and X still hangs
14:38	warren: oh, you mean client-side?
14:38	<warren> vagrantc: yes
14:38	<vagrantc> ok, i tested to 940 and still had the problem.
14:39	<warren> vagrantc: I can't think of a way to test it on the server side
14:39	<vagrantc> i suspect 941 and 942 won't fix the issue.
14:40	warren: well, when we attempted the "ssh -O exit" approach during the pdx hackfest, it actually worked to kill one of the users processes server-side.
14:41	<ogra> Gadi, brendan0powers, chrisinajar, feel free to do whatever you like for a qt greeter, the backend is sbalneav's area, please make sure that communication protocol changes are implemented in the current gtk greeter so i can port them over to the new gtk port
14:41	nicoAMG has quit IRC
14:42	<sbalneav> ogra!!!!
14:42	<ogra> i'm sure th ekubuntu people would love you for a plain qt greeter
14:43	<vagrantc> warren: you probably want to update the rc.d/Makefile.am before tagging, in any case
14:43	<warren> vagrantc: what needs updating?
14:43	vagrantc: oh, yes.
14:43	<vagrantc> :)
14:43	<chrisinajar> ogra: i can send you the specs for the new protocol....
14:43	ogra: scott knows of it, i don't think we ever went over the fine details of it, but we got his blessings :-P
14:44	spectra has quit IRC
14:44	<brendan0powers> we probably should stick it on a wiki somewhere
14:44	<hallmant> Hi everyone! Does anyone know how to get Audacity to work on LTSP 5? When I run "padsp audacity" I get this error: Expression 'ioctl( devHandle, SNDCTL_DSP_CHANNELS, &temp )' failed in 'src/hostapi/oss/pa_unix_oss.c', line: 397
14:44	nicoAMG has joined #ltsp
14:44	<sbalneav> Yeah, I can coordinate the new changes, and we can actually properly document them
14:44	<ogra> chrisinajar, as long as it ends up in the current greeter i dont really care, i just need it in there to port it over to the new freely themeable gtk greeter
14:44	Basti_dash has joined #ltsp
14:45	<sbalneav> We've got an LTSPmanual.xml, I'm thinking of adding LTSPdeveloper.xml
14:45	<ogra> my focus is really on the UI only atm, if sbalneav approved it i totally trust his judgement ;)
14:46	<chrisinajar> sbalneav: so how do i do the thing with launchpad/bzr that you wanted?... I'm totally and completely unfamiliar with bzr... i checked out ldm-trunk and then edited it...
14:46	<sbalneav> you added the files in there?
14:46	<ogra> chrisinajar, make sure to commit in as small chunks as you can
14:47	<sbalneav> Probably the easiest (gadi and vagrantc, jump in here if I tell them something stupid) is...
14:47	put that branch aside...
14:47	<ogra> branch off from the ldm-trunk tree
14:47	<sbalneav> do a clean checkout of ldm-trunk
14:47	<chrisinajar> yes, that... how do i do that!
14:47	branching
14:47	<brendan0powers> and where do the branches go?
14:47	<sbalneav> bzr branch ldm-trunk ldm-trunk-qtgreeter
14:48	cd ldm-trunk-qtgreeter
14:48	<ogra> cd ldm-trunk; bzr branch ../chrisinajar-branch; cd ../chrisinajar-branch
14:48	<sbalneav> add your qt greeter
14:48	<ogra> yeah or what scottie said
14:48	<sbalneav> bzr add <the files)
14:48	bzr add <the files>
14:48	<ogra> create a launchpad user
14:48	that gives you a free option to push branches as you like
14:49	<sbalneav> then bzr push lp:~chrisinajar/ltsp/ldm-trunk-qtgreeter
14:49	* vagrantc likes the ldm-trunk-qtgreeter branch, as that gets people on the right track with feature-specific branches
14:49	<sbalneav> right, yeah, get a LP account.
14:49	<ogra> its very important that you commit in small chunks though
14:50	not so important for the first commit if you add a lot of new files, but for each feature you add do a single commit
14:50	<chrisinajar> hmm... i get an error on the push... "http does not support mkdir()"
14:50	ogra: it's already like, 90% done :-P.... oops!
14:50	Basti_dash has quit IRC
14:50	<chrisinajar> i have an lp account with keys all set up already...
14:51	<ogra> right, then commit what you have and from then on start committing in small chunks
14:51	its easier for people to look at changes you make if they are feature specific
14:52	<chrisinajar> indeed
14:52	so that push command doesn't work though...
14:52	<Appiah> I'm unable to try it myself right now but , if you enable lets say firefox as a local app , do you have to do extra configuration to get the sound to the client?
14:52	or should it just work?
14:53	<chrisinajar> "Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir()"
14:55	dtrask has joined #ltsp
14:55	<ogra> chrisinajar, --create-prefix
14:55	you eed that for the initial branch creation on LP
14:56	<chrisinajar> ogra: same error
14:56	<dtrask> ogra: we missed you at LTSP BTS
14:56	<ogra> dtrask, i missed being there
14:57	chrisinajar, hmm, should work
14:57	<dtrask> ogra: we drank Scotch in your name ;-)
14:57	<brendan0powers> how do we deal with more than one launchpad account, i have most of the actual qt greeter code
14:57	<ogra> dtrask, great !
14:57	brendan0powers, everyone has a branch :)
14:57	or multiple
14:58	<brendan0powers> hmm
14:58	<chrisinajar> ogra: well brendan and i share...
14:58	* vagrantc cringes
14:58	<ogra> what matters is that both of you work of the same initial one
14:58	<brendan0powers> that makes things a bit more complicated
14:58	<chrisinajar> we count as 1 developer that works twice as hard :-P
14:58	<brendan0powers> i wonder if we could have a local svn that gets pushed to launchpad
14:58	<chrisinajar> well, could i give brendan access to my branch?
14:59	<ogra> better use two branches and merge occasionally
14:59	<dtrask> that could work
14:59	<ogra> and also make sure to get your stuff merged upstream
15:00	hallmant has quit IRC
15:00	<ogra> chrisinajar, did you create a branch with the LP web ui ?
15:00	<dtrask> brendan and chris...welcome to the community :-)
15:01	<brendan0powers> ogra: whats the process for that
15:01	<ogra> then you should use --use-existing-dir instead of --create-prefix
15:01	<brendan0powers> also, what version of qt comes with ltsp
15:01	<chrisinajar> ogra: nope. i made an account, checked out, edited, and am now trying to push...
15:01	<ogra> there is a create branch button somewhere in launchpad for your account
15:01	<vagrantc> would it be possible/wise to split the greeters into their own source projects?
15:01	<ogra> they should be in their own subdirs anyway
15:01	<warren> oh man.
15:01	<chrisinajar> vagrantc: i think no. subdirs, yes...
15:01	<warren> plymouth to gdm flicker free is ... special
15:02	it takes a screenshot, then crossfades from plymouth to gdm when X starts
15:02	<ogra> lol
15:02	<dtrask> warren: cool
15:02	* vagrantc hates the idea of having to build a qt greeter as a by-product of making changes to the gtk greeter
15:02	<ogra> fake FTW
15:02	<warren> OTOH, plymouth is pretty bad ass. think splash with animation in native resolution of X.
15:02	<dtrask> ;-0
15:02	;-)
15:03	<brendan0powers> warren: how many video cards are supported?
15:03	<warren> brendan0powers: at the moment only r300 to r500 chipsets
15:03	brendan0powers: intel should be working again soon
15:03	<dtrask> well...gotta get bck to cleaning up
15:03	dtrask is now known as dtrask_away
15:03	<ogra> vagrantc, well, then lets make both greeters separate source trees ... but that will take a lot of extra work and probably needs to split out ldm-dev
15:04	<warren> many other cards work with similar badassness with vga=something, but there's flicker when X starts
15:04	<ogra> warren, i though intel was nearly there as well ?
15:04	only ati^Wamd ?
15:04	<brendan0powers> warren: are there plans to support more cards?
15:04	<warren> ogra: it worked before, but after GEM it needs to be fixed again
15:04	<brendan0powers> warren: especially legacy ones
15:05	<ogra> bah
15:05	<warren> ogra: geode works in vesafb, there is flicker
15:05	<ogra> well, at leat it works :)
15:05	<warren> brendan0powers: only if the driver is ported to use kernel modesetting. requires workk in both kernel and that particular driver.
15:05	<vagrantc> ogra: yeah. i guess for now keeping them all munged together is fine.
15:05	* vagrantc dreams of this stuff someday stabalizing
15:06	* vagrantc is glad to see work on a qt frontend for ldm
15:06	<brendan0powers> warren: ah, for some reason i was under the assumption that vesafb wasn't supported in plymouth
15:06	<warren> gaah...
15:06	xinit spews lots of text to the console before it runs X
15:06	noisy
15:06	<brendan0powers> it would be great if the kernel could fall back to something like vesafb if a modesetting driver wasn't available
15:08	<ogra> warren, pfft, cosmetics
15:10	<vagrantc> current ldm-trunk totally breaks LDM_DIRECTX for me.
15:12	<warren> vagrantc: I'l test- that in a moment
15:12	* brendan0powers wonder if anyone has every gotten audacity to record anything:)
15:13	<ogra> brendan0powers, as localapp ? that needs fiddling
15:13	<Gadi> vagrantc: but LDM_DIRECTX=False works?
15:13	<chrisinajar> figured out the bzr thing
15:13	* brendan0powers should learn to re-read his messages for typos
15:13	* ogra hugs chrisinajar
15:13	<chrisinajar> i needed to run the command to set my username so that is uses ssh isntead of http
15:13	<ogra> yeah
15:14	<brendan0powers> ogra: yea, I turned off pulseaudio first, but it still quircky
15:14	<warren> vagrantc: looks like the new xinit stuff is failing to use the XAUTHORITY
15:14	<ogra> set a proper mailadress as well in your ~/.bazaar config
15:14	<vagrantc> the thing that's been confusing me this whole time is the XAUTHORITY file is getting removed by something while LDM is running.
15:14	so i don't see how it could work.
15:14	<ogra> vagrantc, is that with experimental?
15:15	<sbalneav> Here's my bazaar.conf as recommended to me by vagrantc:
15:15	[DEFAULT]
15:15	launchpad_username = sbalneav
15:15	email=Scott Balneaves <sbalneav@ltsp.org>
15:15	append_revisions_only = True
15:16	<vagrantc> ogra: with ldm-trunk.
15:16	ogra: debian experimental is working fine for me.
15:17	<warren> this doesn't look good
15:17	<vagrantc> every commit since ldm 2.0.16
15:17	has broken ldm for me
15:17	nicoAMG has quit IRC
15:17	dtrask has joined #ltsp
15:17	<brendan0powers> does ldm have a config file for selecting the greeter?
15:17	<warren> xauth: Creating new authority file /var/run/ldm-xauth-akdfjakdjfa
15:17	<ogra> oh, i didnt try anything beyond .14
15:17	<warren> xauth: (stdin):1: bad "add" command line
15:17	<ogra> .14 runs fine in intrepid
15:18	i got a lot of positive feedback for intepid
15:18	*intrepid
15:18	<sbalneav> vagrantc: Will you be around tomorrow afternoon/eveing?
15:18	* ogra fires up olive and looks at the branches
15:18	<warren> this is exactly why I wanted to tag partway through hte hackfest
15:18	it worked up until a certain point
15:18	one of the later commits broke ldm here
15:18	* dtrask is away: Gone away for now.
15:18	dtrask is now known as dtrask-is-busy-o
15:19	<vagrantc> sbalneav: i'll be at work much of the day
15:19	sbalneav: so around ... sort of
15:19	<Gadi> ah
15:19	<sbalneav> I really, REALLY want to get this going for you in debian
15:19	<Gadi> since 2.0.16 we pulled X out of ldm
15:19	<sbalneav> so I want to sort this out.
15:19	<Gadi> I guess we didnt text LDM_DIRECTX
15:20	<sbalneav> Is it breaking with LDM_DIRECTX?
15:20	<vagrantc> sbalneav: yeah, me too. i like the direction it's going a lot! i just need it to work :)
15:20	<warren> it is broken with and without LDM_DIRECTX
15:21	<sbalneav> warren: gimme a sec, lemme see what I did.
15:21	if there's a problem, it's in the ldm screen script, that was the last thing we touched.
15:21	<vagrantc> i had it partially working up till 940, if i recall correctly.
15:21	but it still would hang on logout
15:22	<dtrask-is-busy-o> cliebow: thanks for being such a great host this weekend
15:22	<warren> the three xauth commands are failing
15:22	K_O-Gnom has quit IRC
15:22	<ogra> wow, commit 928 bis gross
15:22	*is
15:22	six2one has quit IRC
15:23	dtrask-is-busy-o has quit IRC
15:23	<sbalneav> warren: Oh, did you re-build ltsp-trunk as well?
15:23	<Gadi> it becomes unnecessary if X is pulled out of ldm
15:23	<ogra> - * (c) Scott Balneaves, sbalneav@ltsp.org, 2007, 2008
15:23	+ * (c) Scott Balneaves, sbalneav@ltsp.org, 2007, 2008
15:23	* Oliver Grawert, ogra@ubuntu.com, 2005, 2006, 2007
15:23	- * Vagrant Cascadian, vagrant@freegeek.org,
15:23	+ * Vagrant Cascadian, vagrant@freegeek.org,
15:23	* ogra scratches head
15:23	<warren> sbalneav: no, something is needed?
15:23	<sbalneav> We fixed up the screen-x-common file
15:23	<warren> oh
15:24	<vagrantc> anything in recent ldm-trunk require fixes from ltsp-trunk ?
15:24	<sbalneav> yeah we ditched the separate $DISP envionment variable and just use $DISPLAY
15:24	yeah
15:24	<vagrantc> ah.
15:24	<warren> that would explain it
15:24	buildling now
15:24	<sbalneav> ok
15:24	whew
15:24	stgraber and I tested it, I thought,
15:24	<chrisinajar> is it possible to give brendan access to my branch?
15:24	<Gadi> yeah - I keep bumping up to places where I need to make changes in diff trunks that depend on each other
15:24	<ogra> these patches you guys did over the hackfest look massively weird
15:24	lots of whitespace changes
15:24	<sbalneav> but we might have tested wrong :)
15:25	<warren> ogra: where?
15:25	<ogra> chrisinajar, he shoudld just have is own branch
15:25	<sbalneav> Well, when I found bad whitespace (trailing spaces, etc) I just cleaned them up.
15:25	blank lines with 3 spaces on them, etc.
15:25	That bad?
15:26	<ogra> warren, well, more removal and adding of the same line that whitespace ... the whitespace changes are usually just removing and re-adding ampty lines
15:26	*empty
15:26	probably just patch being clever or something though
15:27	sbalneav, nah, should just be mentioned in the changelog if you clean up
15:27	but its fine
15:27	<vagrantc> sbalneav: we should put a: test -z "$DISPLAY" && DISPLAY="$DISP"
15:27	<ogra> the patches just look a bit weird
15:27	<vagrantc> to keep some backwards compatibility
15:27	<ogra> meh, you hardcoded syslog ?
15:27	:(
15:28	* ogra was hoping for a switch
15:28	<sbalneav> ogra: Would you like a switch between local file logging and syslogging?
15:28	<ogra> yeah
15:28	<sbalneav> I couuld do that.
15:28	OK, NP
15:28	<ogra> syslog is evil if you dont have dns set up
15:28	<sbalneav> I'll do it tomorrow night when I get home.
15:29	I'm just in McQuillan's office now, and don't have any test facilities.
15:29	<ogra> heh, pere rules :)
15:29	the merge train tracks in olive look really sexy btw :)
15:30	<sbalneav> Do we want a command line switch to LDM for remote logging (i.e. ldm -r) or just have ldm read a LDM_SYSLOG variable
15:30	<ogra> you really can see how much alcohol was involved :)
15:30	<sbalneav> olive?
15:31	<vagrantc> seems like LDM_DIRECTX is borked for me.
15:31	<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ldm-tree.png
15:31	dont drink and drive :P
15:31	:)
15:32	<vagrantc> LDM_DIRECTX=false is working for initial login, but fails on subsequent logins
15:32	<ogra> yea, olive, try it, its the best bzr gui i have seen yet
15:32	<sbalneav> Was I doing that wrong? I thought I was supposed to do make changes in my tree, and merge them into trunk for each small change.
15:32	<ogra> sbalneav, it just looks like a funnly slalom
15:33	<sbalneav> works to login, and fails to logout, or doesn't allow a login?
15:33	<ogra> serpentines down the beer trail
15:33	wow
15:34	* ogra is impressed by all the changes
15:34	<ogra> you did pretty damn good work guys ...
15:34	<sbalneav> sbalneav@vger:~$ aptitude search olive
15:34	p olive - console RSS reader
15:34	We were busy
15:34	That's not it, I think
15:34	It a package?
15:34	<vagrantc> sbalneav: current status is first login works fine, logs out fine. subsequent logins hang on login.
15:35	<ogra> sbalneav, apt-get install bzr-gtk
15:35	<sbalneav> vagrantc: Ah, well at least the LOGOUT is fine for the first one :)
15:35	<ogra> another cool think is bzr-dbus if you have avahi installed and running at hackfests
15:35	<vagrantc> sbalneav: it's been that way the whole time.
15:36	anyways, i've got to run off to work. will be back soonish
15:36	<ogra> it adds a little notification icon that pops up a message if anyone in the LAN commits to an upstream branch
15:36	<vagrantc> sbalneav: for a long time it was first login works fine, logs out fine. subsequent logins hung on logout.
15:36	<ogra> requires that anyone has it installed and avahi on though ...
15:37	vagrantc has quit IRC
15:37	<ogra> that logout worked though
15:38	<sbalneav> Getting closer :)
15:39	ogra: The log switch is easy, we just create a my-syslog function, and either call vfprintf or vsyslog depending on the value of LDM_SYSLOG
15:39	<ogra> yeah, sounds trivial
15:40	<sbalneav> I'll add it tomorrow night.
15:40	starting LDM as a client of xinit fixed warren's race condition.
15:41	<ogra> does it respawn properly then ?
15:41	<sbalneav> yeah
15:41	<ogra> cool !
15:41	hey did i mention that i met the founder of the digital research lab on the weekend ?
15:42	that was pretty cool
15:42	<brendan0powers> wow, launchpad+bzr is way more awsome than i thought it would be
15:42	<pscheie> ogra, what lab is that?
15:42	<ogra> pscheie, never head of DR ?
15:42	*heard
15:42	<warren> hmm...
15:43	I can't see a login
15:43	I see the sentinel immediately
15:43	<ogra> they wrote DR-DOS before MS came on the scene
15:43	<pscheie> yes, I remember DR from years ago, wasn't sure if that's who you meant
15:43	<ogra> were bought by compaq later
15:43	and the DR lab turned into handhelds.org
15:44	<pscheie> I thought DR was around at the same time as MS, early '80s
15:44	<ogra> afer compaq dropped them nokia bought them, now they run mojo.handhelds.org
15:44	yeah
15:44	<warren> something is still broken =(
15:44	<pscheie> I remember using DR-DOS in latter 80's
15:44	<ogra> they are fossils :)
15:44	<sbalneav> Ok, heading out to dinner.
15:44	<brendan0powers> what version of qt usually ships with ltsp
15:44	<ogra> enjoy
15:44	<sbalneav> Be on later tonight, I'd expect.
15:44	<brendan0powers> the qt greeter probably needs at least 4.2
15:44	<ogra> brendan0powers, none
15:44	<sbalneav> see you all later.
15:45	<pscheie> brendan0powers, I'd think it would depend on the distro
15:45	<ogra> brendan0powers, the packager needs to add a dependency
15:45	<chrisinajar> ok
15:45	<brendan0powers> hmm, thats a bit of a problem
15:45	<ogra> each for his distro
15:45	make a dep insode the autoconf magic
15:45	<brendan0powers> there was talk about spliting greeters into there own source trees, how would this happen?
15:46	<ogra> we would need a ldm-dev package in the distros that provides the header files
15:46	and probably an ldm-common that provides the backend
15:46	<chrisinajar> well, the ldm part is the same for the two greeters, so there could be a ldm-common, then a ldm-qtgreeter and ldm-gtkgreeter or something...
15:46	<ogra> then you create a ldm-gtk or -qt package that has a build dependency on ldm-dev
15:46	<brendan0powers> do the greeters use any of the ldm headers?
15:47	<ogra> ldminfo at least
15:47	but thats a hell lot of work
15:47	lest start off with keeping both greeters inside the tree for now
15:47	<brendan0powers> it shouldn't be too hard to put the qt greeter into the ldm tree
15:47	<ogra> but we should work on a plan to split it up later
15:48	<brendan0powers> i just need to figure out how automake works
15:48	<ogra> right, just use a subdir
15:48	scott is your man for that
15:48	autoconf needs to get the right bits to check for the dependencies
15:49	so that configure will check for the qt headers in the right version
15:49	the rest is a matter of the distro packagers
15:50	in ubuntu we dont have QT on the CD so i wouldnt wnat to ship the QT greeter on the ubuntu CD ... on the kubuntu CD we dont have gtk, they would love the QT greeter instead
15:51	<Q-FUNK> agreed
15:51	<chrisinajar> ogra: this is going to be awesome.
15:51	<ogra> so the resuting binary packages in ubuntu would be ldm-common for the backend, ldm-gtk for the ubuntu greeter and ldm-qt for the kubuntu one
15:52	yeah
15:52	i was waiing long for someone to write a QT version :)
15:53	<chrisinajar> ogra: well, qt is what we do :-P
15:54	<ogra> yeah, i somehow couldnt get the kubuntu community intrested ever, these are the only QT guys i have around in the ubuntu community
15:54	seems they were happy with my kde theme for the gtk greeter
15:55	though that was only half hearted, just adding a lot of blue and a kde lookalike gtk theme (and kubuntu logo)
15:55	<chrisinajar> ogra: yeah, scott mentioned the desire for a qt greeter at bts, and brendan and my ears perked up :-P... We write just about everything with qt...
15:56	<ogra> great
15:56	<warren> sbalneav: Gadi: did you folks test with LDM_DIRECTX=yes while doing these changes to ldm and ltsp?
15:56	<ogra> <-- no clue about C++
15:56	<chrisinajar> ogra: do you code in other languages?
15:57	i still don't really know where everyone fits in the big picture...
15:57	<ogra> python, pygtk, C, C+gtk and shell are my preferred ones
15:57	i remember some stuff in perl still
15:58	in the end i can learn every lang i need to but the above are my usual tools
15:58	<warren> sbalneav: Gadi: using the latest ltsp-trunk and ldm-trunk, logins get stuck after ssh connects
15:58	<brendan0powers> ogra: i'm pretty sure ubuntu does have qt4
15:58	its part of the lsb standard
15:58	<ogra> if i can avoid i dont touch java :)
15:58	<stgraber> warren: all my tests were with LDM_DIRECTX=yes
15:59	<ogra> brendan0powers, sure, not so sure what the other distros involved have though, debian might be behind a bit
15:59	they will be until lenny releases
16:00	ubuntu/kubuntu is already defaulting to KDE4 so QT4 or bigger should be there already
16:01	<warren> stgraber: could you please retest with latest ltsp-trunk and ldm-trunk? perhaps I broke something, but I undid my changes and it still doesn't work...
16:01	brb
16:02	<stgraber> warren: I'll have a look
16:02	dtrask_away has quit IRC
16:03	<cliebow> any pictures up of bts??
16:03	<warren> I put Francis on my wallpaper.
16:06	<ogra> haha
16:06	<chrisinajar> i want to see scott and warren's pictures really bad...
16:07	i know they got some good ones..
16:07	<ogra> warren, by looking at the code i dont see anything that could caue your probs
16:07	*cause
16:07	<warren> the francis picture is the only good pciture
16:07	<chrisinajar> i believe scott got francis leaning back finishing off that bottle...
16:08	that one will be funny
16:09	johnny has left #ltsp
16:10	<chrisinajar> pretty much any picture of francis from saturday has the potential of being hysterical...
16:10	* ogra glares at
16:10	<ogra> sound = g_strconcat("ESPEAKER=", ldm.ipaddr, ":16001", NULL);
16:10	- esdpid = ldm_spawn(esdcmd, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL); /* launch ESD */
16:10	+ esdpid = ldm_spawn(esdcmd, NULL, NULL, NULL); /* launch ESD */
16:10	shouldnt we simply just drop esd ?
16:11	and while we're at it also shudder nasd ?
16:12	<rjune_> what are you planning on using for remote audio?
16:12	<ogra> we use pulse since over a year
16:12	<chrisinajar> robots
16:12	<rjune_> does artsd talk to pulse?
16:13	<ogra> inging robots, awesome idea !
16:13	*singing even
16:13	<rjune_> the primary reason for nas was because artsd didn't always work well with esd. though esd was the preferred method
16:13	<chrisinajar> it's the best way to relay sound, really...
16:13	<ogra> rjune_, hmm, it might not, so yeah esd might till be needed
16:13	*still
16:13	<rjune_> artsd used to send the name of the file over the link. which may not be required now
16:13	<ogra> esd emu in pulse is fine
16:14	nas can really go
16:14	though arts compatibility is a valid point, even though kde upstream dropped support for 3.x
16:14	<rjune_> support for arts or suppport for nas?
16:15	<ogra> and kde 4 doesnt use arts anymore afaik
16:15	for kde 3.x
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16:15	<ogra> kde3 isnt supported upstream anymore
16:16	<rjune_> ah
16:18	well, kde3 is in ubuntu LTS
16:20	johnny has joined #ltsp
16:23	<ogra> rjune_, nope
16:23	the only things that are LTS for ubuntu are ubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-server
16:24	not edubuntu, xubuntu or kubuntu
16:24	<rjune_> KDE isn't included in ubuntu?
16:24	<ogra> it never was
16:25	<chrisinajar> it is in kubuntu though :)
16:25	<ogra> right
16:25	<rjune_> so being able to apt-get install kde-libs is irrelevant?
16:25	<ogra> kbuntu is 100% kde
16:25	for LTS, yes
16:25	<rjune_> so you have in official ubuntu repositories, software which is not part of official ubuntu?
16:25	<johnny> they are officially ubuntu...
16:26	<ogra> right
16:26	<johnny> they are just not lts..
16:26	<ogra> but not LTS
16:26	<rjune_> ok then
16:26	<ogra> there would have been LTS for kde if the kde people could have made up their minds
16:27	<rjune_> it was bad timing
16:27	<ogra> but they refused to support v3.x upstream and v4.x wasnt even remotely ready
16:27	<rjune_> 4 wasn't ready and 3 would be dead in a year
16:27	<ogra> it slowly gets there now
16:27	right
16:27	so there was no way to support it for 3 years
16:32	<stgraber> ogra: hmm, it still has some major issue for thin client support (that we are trying to fix)
16:32	<ogra> kde4 ?
16:32	well
16:33	sebas gave me a little intro on the current kde4
16:33	last weekend
16:34	but indeed i couldnt judge it wrt ltsp
16:34	<johnny> uggh.. "no mixer elements found"
16:34	how can i fix this stupid sound :(
16:34	<ogra> make sure the right libalsa plugins are istalled on the server
16:34	<johnny> uhmm?
16:35	this is an upgrade from hardy
16:35	<ogra> err, libasound
16:35	<johnny> shouldn't they all be there?
16:35	<stgraber> ogra: it takes >25s to open a session (not only on a thin client), xdg menu seems a bit broken, sound doesn't use pulse by default, you can switch user/reboot/shutdown, plasmoids use some software rendering making huge amount of X11 traffic
16:35	<ogra> yeah
16:35	<stgraber> ogra: and some other things we have on our list :)
16:35	<ogra> geeez
16:35	thats a long list
16:36	<johnny> libasound-plugins is installed
16:36	<stgraber> well, we have 5 months to fix that (before our next major update for our customers)
16:36	<johnny> err libasound2-plugins
16:36	<ogra> right
16:36	<johnny> so.. then what? :)
16:36	<ogra> no ide
16:36	a
16:36	<johnny> :(
16:36	<ogra> it should pick up the pulse mixer
16:36	check your asoundrc.asoundconf
16:37	of the user
16:37	<johnny> which one?
16:37	oh
16:37	i'll put em back
16:37	they were unusable in hardy
16:37	<ogra> there is a xsession script setting that up
16:37	<johnny> pulse kept dieing all the time
16:37	i had to use alsa only
16:37	i could try pulse again..
16:37	<ogra> doent matter on the server
16:37	<johnny> the server is a desktop
16:37	so it does matter :)
16:37	<ogra> right
16:37	no
16:38	PULSE_SERVER points to the client
16:38	<johnny> my clients are probably fine
16:38	<ogra> it doest matter at all if pulse runs on the server or not
16:38	<johnny> but they have no speakers
16:38	i want sound to come out of the speakers attached to my server :)
16:38	<ogra> ah
16:38	<johnny> being played as a user logged into gdm on the server
16:38	<ogra> well, then have fun fiddling :)
16:39	<johnny> no.. that's a standard use case for ubuntu :)
16:39	ignore the ltsp part
16:39	i can't find quality assistance for ubuntu anywhere
16:39	<ogra> ah, default desktop ? no ltsp involved?
16:39	<johnny> pretend that it is :)
16:39	<ogra> pretend ?
16:39	<johnny> yes.. it does do ltsp serving
16:39	<ogra> so ther are no clinets attached?
16:39	aha
16:39	<johnny> but it is also a standard desktop
16:39	<ogra> did the user ever log in through ltsp ?
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16:40	<johnny> uhmm.. that is possible..
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16:40	<chrisinajar> is there an ldm.conf?
16:40	<ogra> well, remove the ltsp-sound script form Xsesssion.d
16:40	<johnny> hmm ? why?
16:40	i'm confused
16:40	<ogra> it sets the asound setup to point to pulse by default
16:40	<chrisinajar> man, developing this is proving to be difficult considering that I don't run ltsp at all :-P
16:40	<johnny> i would like to use pulse again
16:41	see if it has improved
16:41	<ogra> chrisinajar, virtualbox ;)
16:41	<chrisinajar> I want to have a ldm related config thing... what file should i read from?
16:41	<johnny> ogra, i had two confusing things going on here
16:41	<ogra> chrisinajar, just use global vars
16:41	<chrisinajar> ogra: yeah, we'll probably put up an ltsp VM at some point...
16:41	<ogra> these are exporte from lts.conf by default
16:41	<johnny> one.. is that the intrepid upgrade comes with a broken kernel for me
16:41	<ogra> *exported
16:41	<johnny> and the hardy kernel is also broken with my sata card
16:41	<chrisinajar> ok
16:42	<johnny> and the earlier hardy kerenls are missing my sound drives
16:42	<chrisinajar> by global i assume you mean environmental?
16:42	<johnny> so i'm back to the gutsy kernel
16:42	until a fixed intrepid kernel comes out
16:42	<ogra> johnny, you dont use and freaking sata raid setup, right ?
16:42	<johnny> no
16:42	<ogra> *any
16:42	<johnny> it's 1 hard drive
16:42	<ogra> werid
16:42	<johnny> it's a filed bug
16:42	3mb/s transfer
16:43	<ogra> no fix released yet ?
16:43	<johnny> too slow to use
16:43	not yet
16:43	<ogra> 3M ?
16:43	switch to a USB key :)
16:43	<johnny> seems to occur with the sata_nv
16:43	<ogra> should get you 16-20
16:43	<johnny> lol
16:43	i'd rather keep using my disk..
16:43	so.. one question
16:43	even if pulse is running
16:43	if i type alsamixer on intrepid.. what should happen?
16:44	on a standard desktop that is
16:44	<ogra> you should see the pulse master control
16:45	<johnny> aha.. now is ee what you mean
16:45	if [ -n "$LTSP_CLIENT" ]; then
16:45	/usr/bin/asoundconf set-pulseaudio
16:45	else
16:45	if [ ! type pulseaudio > /dev/null 2>&1 ]; then
16:45	/usr/bin/asoundconf unset-pulseaudio
16:45	fi
16:45	<ogra> right
16:45	<johnny> so.. i shouldn't have any asound stuff in my home of the server user?
16:46	or i should? :)
16:46	<ogra> .asoundrc.asoundconf should point to pulse in intrepid in any case
16:46	pcm.!default { type pulse }
16:46	ctl.!default { type pulse }
16:46	and pules should be running all the time
16:47	<johnny> and that's it?
16:47	<ogra> yeah
16:47	<johnny> i have a crapload of other stuff in that file that is backed up
16:47	the one i moved out of the way to just get plain alsa in hardy.. due to pulse being so broken
16:47	<ogra> the ltsp script will only unset pulse if its not installed
16:50	* ogra decides to call it a day
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17:06	<jc2it> So i would like to default to SCREEN_03 at boot time. I have tried various lts.conf configurations, but always Screen_07 is the default. I f I don't specify SCREEN_07 the cursor just blinks at me. Somone here suggested adding 'chvt 3' to my custome telnet script, but that did not work. Perhaps I put it in the wrong place, but the end seemed to be the likely place.
17:07	What I am wondering is if I can display a command just prior to displaying the login request?
17:08	<Gadi> jc2it: can you pastebot your screen script?
17:08	!pastebot
17:09	<ltspbot> Gadi: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
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17:19	<johnny> ogra, :(
17:19	pulse is back.. but it still can't connect to the server
17:19	even after log back in
17:20	the sound modules don't load
17:20	wtf
17:20	this is a mess
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17:29	<vagrantc> i wonder if ldm-trunk 943: Silence "xauth: creating new authority file ..." message
17:29	is what really borked ldm this last time...
17:31	<stgraber> how could redirecting the output of xauth to /dev/null break ldm ?
17:31	<ltsppbot> "jc2it" pasted "lts.conf & wy60 & ldm" (220 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/97
17:32	<vagrantc> stgraber: well, we're doing all sorts of stderr and stdout redirections ...
17:33	<jc2it> I think this is what you were interested in. The wy60 script is change in two places from the stock Ubuntu 8.04 telnet script. The ldm2 script is changed only in one, at the end.
17:34	<Gadi> jc2it: change chvt 3 to chvt ${TTY} and put it right before the while loop
17:34	in wy60
17:34	<vagrantc> now i can't even get a login at all.
17:34	<Gadi> jc2it: then, just set SCREEN_03 = wy60
17:34	and dont set ldm
17:35	jc2it: the ldm screen script will always steal the focus away
17:36	unless you add a console prompt that asks you to press Enter to bring up the ldm login screen before exec'ing ldm
17:38	vagrantc: is there a reason we do the add via <<EOF?
17:38	and not just as: xauth add....
17:38	<chrisinajar> so this is me procrastinating on porting the gtk greeter over to the new protocol...
17:39	<Gadi> seems to me we could dump the -f as well
17:39	"By default, xauth will use the file specified by the XAUTHORITY
17:39	environment variable"
17:40	xauth -q add ${DISPLAY} . $MCOOKIE
17:40	should do it
17:41	<johnny> cat /proc/asound/cards is shows no cards
17:41	it worked fine in hardy.. WTF
17:41	this sucks
17:42	<vagrantc> Gadi: you think i understand the reasons why y'all did all this crazy stuff?
17:42	:)
17:42	<Gadi> hehe - that has been there forever
17:42	like that
17:42	we didnt change it
17:42	(over hackfet)
17:42	*s
17:43	would you like me to push a version like that?
17:43	<johnny> is there a place to get decent help for ubuntu ?
17:43	* johnny wonders
17:43	<vagrantc> ldm is totally and utterly broken for me right now.
17:44	<Gadi> cool
17:44	then, I can make changes
17:44	:)
17:44	gonzaloaf_laptop has quit IRC
17:45	<johnny> #ubuntu is useless
17:45	they need to split that up into categories or something
17:45	<chrisinajar> johnny: #linux is pretty good.
17:45	<johnny> well i think my problem is relatively ubuntu specific
17:46	<chrisinajar> yeah, people ask distro specific stuff all the time because #distro sucks :-P
17:46	<johnny> at least i know how to fix gentoo..
17:47	my real problem i think..
17:47	<chrisinajar> ask in #linux, and either myself or someone else who knows what you're talking about will probably answer :-P
17:47	<johnny> is that i can't use the newest ubuntu kernel due to a bug in my sata controller
17:47	the last usable kernel on this box is from gutsy
17:47	perhaps that is the real problem
17:48	<chrisinajar> have you tried compiling your own?
17:48	take hardy and patch it /w working sata stuff...
17:48	<johnny> i don't know what kind of automagical stuff is going on
17:49	i know how to compile a kernel on gentoo ..
17:49	but this is kinda weird.. there seems to be more steps in fixing one of these odd distro kernels with all the patches and whatnot
17:49	<chrisinajar> it's the same :-P
17:49	<johnny> hardy and intrepid kernels are both broken
17:49	<chrisinajar> just get the kernel source via packages, it gives you the kernel source with all the patches they use, then apply your patch
17:49	<johnny> hmm.. actually i should check for an update today
17:49	<chrisinajar> tadaa!
17:50	<johnny> more like.. rever their patch
17:50	that causes teh breakage..
17:50	<chrisinajar> indeed
17:50	<johnny> if icould figure out which one..
17:50	<chrisinajar> compiling kernels is way easier than it sounds :-P
17:51	don't let the lack of convenient emerge command deter you from compiling things yourself sometimes :)
17:51	<vagrantc> so, ldm-trunk 945, hangs on login, ... it gets as far as "expect saw: LTSPROCKS", and "logged in sucessfully" ... and then sits there.
17:51	<Gadi> how about 946?
17:52	<jc2it> Thanks Gadi that explaination makes great sense. Unfortunately, I cannot make it work correctly.
17:53	<Gadi> jc2it: where are you getting stuck?
17:53	<johnny> chrisinajar, i have compiled at least 100 kernels in the past 6 years
17:53	but. gentoo kernels are almost vanilla
17:53	<chrisinajar> johnny: 101!
17:53	<johnny> so it's easy to find fixes
17:53	<chrisinajar> do iiitttt
17:53	<johnny> that don't tramp on other fixes
17:54	<jc2it> It still gets a blinking cursor. Your comment about stealing focus made me think, and i pressed ctrl + alt + f3 and it switches to SCREEN_03. It does not seem to be switching from SCREEN_07
17:54	<chrisinajar> johnny: gotta admit it's worth a try though :)
17:54	<jc2it> The blinking cursor is just nothing assigned to that SCREEN
17:55	<johnny> chrisinajar, thing is.. this is the reason WE USE UBUNTU
17:55	so we don't have to compile kernels
17:55	damn thing should just work
17:56	<chrisinajar> hahaha, indeed
17:56	* vagrantc waits for ldm-trunk 946
17:56	<johnny> maybe i'll copy my fedora kernel over..
17:57	see if it has the same issues
17:57	but then there's the whole splash thingy..
17:57	<Gadi> jc2it: did you move your chvt line to before the while loop?
17:57	if you put it at the end it wont work
18:00	<ltsppbot> "jc2it" pasted "new wy60" (22 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/98
18:00	<jc2it> like that
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18:00	<Gadi> oops
18:00	shouldnt be tty...
18:01	should be...
18:01	one sec...
18:02	<jc2it> It should be ${TTY} without the tty portion of the data?
18:02	<Gadi> should be: chvt vt${TTY}
18:02	oh wait
18:03	no
18:03	sorry
18:03	start with: chvt 3
18:03	(Gadi gets stupider as the day gets longer)
18:04	then you can change it to this if chvt 3 works:
18:04	TTY=$(tty)
18:04	TTY=${TTY#/dev/tty}
18:04	chvt ${TTY}
18:04	and that will make it generic
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18:05	<Gadi> ..oh, you have that code already
18:05	sorta
18:05	with what you currently have, you could get away with just: chvt ${TTY#/dev/tty}
18:06	well, whatever
18:06	u get the gist
18:06	* Gadi shuts up
18:07	<gonzaloaf_laptop> hi, can you help me to dimension a server for 20 PCs running desktop apps like OOo, planner, etc. ?
18:07	<jc2it> yup, chvt 3 works great in that spot. i will try chvt ${TTY#/dev/tty} thanks
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18:07	<Gadi> jc2it: it wont work
18:08	comment out your TTY lines up top
18:08	and use:
18:08	TTY=$(tty)
18:08	TTY=${TTY#/dev/tty}
18:08	chvt ${TTY}
18:08	<vagrantc> Gadi: are the localapps-menu things dependent on the newer ldm ?
18:09	<Gadi> vagrantc: I dont think so
18:09	they are not even enabled unless you do: LOCAL_APPS_MENU = True
18:09	<vagrantc> right
18:09	<Gadi> and set a bunch of things i the chroot
18:09	*in
18:09	<vagrantc> i'd like to look at beating my head against a different wall for a while :)
18:09	<Gadi> its not as automagic yet as it should/will be
18:10	did 946 work the same as 945?
18:10	<vagrantc> just about to try
18:10	<Gadi> ok
18:10	also, before you give up on it, try with a fresh user account
18:10	just to rule out weirdness
18:10	<vagrantc> yeah, i was just starting to think about that.
18:11	<Gadi> we were testing mostly with ltsp-cluster autologin which generates a fresh account on the fly
18:11	that may be the diff
18:12	<vagrantc> ah.
18:13	<jc2it> Gadi that last change did work correctly. thanks for all of your help.
18:13	<Gadi> jc2it: np - sorry for blathering
18:13	;)
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18:15	<johnny> Gadi, are you gonna do a ppa of newer ltsp stuff?
18:15	would be useful :)
18:15	i'd be interesting in testing it
18:15	<Gadi> u got the wrong girl
18:15	stgraber is the packager
18:15	;)
18:15	<johnny> maybe he will
18:15	<Gadi> cough cough
18:15	<johnny> why won't my sound card work damnit :(
18:16	<vagrantc> Gadi: with a fresh user, i'm back to "works fine on initial login, hangs at login on subsequent logins"
18:16	<Gadi> oh wait!
18:16	I know another diff
18:16	ltsp-cluster does the whole screen script in a loop
18:17	which means they mktemp a new xauth each time!
18:17	and export it
18:17	<vagrantc> Gadi: yeah, i noticed that as well.
18:17	<Gadi> duh!
18:17	and we remove it!
18:17	<vagrantc> right
18:17	<Gadi> how did this ever work after one time?
18:17	this is silly
18:17	mind if I fix and push?
18:18	I dont see why we exclude the top part from the while loop
18:18	<vagrantc> well, i was kind of hoping it would be broken indefinitely :)
18:18	<Gadi> :P
18:19	<vagrantc> that was acutally a change i was testing manually
18:19	and i didn't commit it
18:19	<chrisinajar> does anyone know gtk well and wants to rewrite a large portion of the ldm gtk greeter?... I don't know gtk or glib at all, but i need to port the gtkgreeter over to the new protocol...
18:19	<Gadi> hehe
18:19	committed
18:20	pushed
18:20	<vagrantc> which is probably why it was working a little more for me the other day
18:20	<chrisinajar> i could do it with a bit of time, but it requires learning gtk, which isn't a quick process....
18:20	mccann has quit IRC
18:20	<Gadi> vagrantc: still baffles me that ldm worked before
18:20	* chrisinajar can't break those cuffs
18:20	<stgraber> chrisinajar: you should check with ogra (tomorrow morning as he's german and so should be sleeping now), he had planned to rewrite a good part of the gtk greeter, maybe he can take care of that (if he's the time)
18:21	<chrisinajar> yeah, and if i get upstream to accept it, then he'll have to use the new protocol :-P
18:22	stgraber: any news on kde4?
18:23	<stgraber> chrisinajar: I wouldn't expect much news about kde4 until tomorrow, these guys are weird, they try not to work after work hours ...
18:23	<chrisinajar> ah, i just work on lower priority or fun stuff after hours :-P
18:23	after hours is where the magic happens
18:23	<Ryan52> chrisinajar: what changes need to be made?
18:24	<chrisinajar> Ryan52: to gtk greet?
18:24	<Ryan52> yes
18:24	<stgraber> chrisinajar: but kded not starting the first time because of a missing file/parameter and then making everything to wait for dbus or something similar seems like very likely to be the problem
18:24	<vagrantc> Gadi: so, a totally fresh user works on initial login ... but then, even after purging the user, it doesn't work ever again
18:24	<chrisinajar> Ryan52: we redesigned the protocol that it uses to communicate with ldm...
18:24	<Gadi> ok - try with 947
18:25	<chrisinajar> Ryan52: we are also writing a qt greeter, which is well on it's way
18:25	the new protocol is a bit more sane, and a lot more flexible...
18:25	also, greeters will be run as an unprivilaged user
18:25	but the protocol is mostly what breaks it :-P
18:26	<Ryan52> chrisinajar: can you tell me about this new protocol? If so, then I might be able to help...
18:26	<vagrantc> Gadi: sourcing screen-x-common all over again?
18:26	<Gadi> chrisinajar: ryan52 has intimate knowledge of the gtk greeter
18:26	vagrantc: bear with me
18:26	:)
18:26	lets see if it works
18:26	<chrisinajar> Ryan52: certainly... it still uses io to do it, we simply redesigned the commands that are run back and forth... let me look up the doc we wrote and pop it in a pastebin...
18:27	that we wrote with gobby manliness :)
18:28	<Gadi> vagrantc: I am totally convinced this is why it worked in our tests and not with u or warren
18:29	<vagrantc> Gadi: first login works, fails to bring the greeter back up ... no X
18:30	on logout
18:30	<Gadi> hmm...
18:30	<chrisinajar> Ryan52: pastebin.com/f3dccbb76
18:30	<Gadi> can you tell where it gets stuck?
18:31	* Gadi looks at ltsp-cluster code...
18:32	<Ryan52> chrisinajar: does sbalneav have an ldm branch somewhere that makes ldm follow this protocol?
18:32	<chrisinajar> Ryan52: i do
18:32	<vagrantc> Gadi: couldn't tell exactly ... possibly has something to do with ":not a tty" being set to the display
18:33	<Gadi> that would do it
18:33	<Ryan52> chrisinajar: this one? https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisinajar/ltsp/ldm-trunk-qtgreeter
18:33	<chrisinajar> yep!
18:33	I'll push so the latest changes are there
18:33	i've been tweeking and stuff...
18:34	ok, it's pushed...
18:34	Ryan52: note that i haven't tested the ldm stuff as I don't run ltsp and therefor don't have a suitable test environment right now... I'll be setting up a VM soon....
18:34	<Gadi> vagrantc: do you get that error? DISPLAY=:not a tty?
18:34	<vagrantc> Gadi: it's just crazy inconsistant.
18:34	<chrisinajar> but it does compile, and should in theory work :-P
18:35	<Ryan52> okay :)
18:36	<chrisinajar> Ryan52: we'll have a working qt greeter for testing really soon, probably today or tomorrow.... right now the only obstical is getting automake and qt to get along...
18:36	Ryan52: we == me and brendan0powers
18:36	<Ryan52> chrisinajar: cool! I like qt waaaay better than gtk! I'll do the gtkgreet stuff tomorrow...
18:36	<Gadi> oh wait
18:37	vagrantc: this is how ltsp-cluster runs the ldm screen script: openvt -w -f -c ${TTY} /usr/share/ltsp/screen.d/ldm
18:37	perhaps because otherwise they do not get a TTY
18:37	<Ryan52> chrisinajar: does it support guest login? :)
18:37	<chrisinajar> Ryan52: Awesome... If you have any questions at all about the protocol or anything, ask... I'm on here just about all the time...
18:37	<Gadi> which produces your error
18:37	<chrisinajar> Ryan52: if it passes "username @GUEST@" then it's guest log in...
18:39	<Ryan52> okay, the rest I can figure out by looking at your code.
18:40	<chrisinajar> Ryan52: awesome, thanks a bunch. I really didn't want to have to learn gtk to get this thing working :-P... I'll help with that I can...
18:42	<Ryan52> "my legs are on fire!" and "My arms are on crack!"
18:42	:)
18:42	<stgraber> Gadi: yeah, you need to use openvt if you don't want to get a TTY="no tty" the second time you run it :)
18:43	<Gadi> stgraber: thx :P
18:43	<chrisinajar> Ryan52: we're new to bzr, so we wanted to test merging and stuff...
18:44	it seemed like a logical progression...
18:44	<Gadi> I think this is a good time to put the loop into screen_session and have it launch the session with openvt
18:44	<Ryan52> hehe
18:44	<Gadi> what do you think?
18:44	<Ryan52> chrisinajar: woah. there's a 200 line long block commented out code...is that really needed? 0.o
18:44	chrisinajar: and where's the qt greeter at?
18:44	<Gadi> stgraber - what does the -f flag do in openvt?
18:45	I do not see it on the version I have on this system
18:45	<brendan0powers> i hate automake
18:45	<stgraber> Gadi: +1, I can then get rid of most of our ltsp-cluster hack :)
18:45	<chrisinajar> Ryan52: no, it's there for my own reference to the old protocol...
18:45	Ryan52: commented out == old protocol functions...
18:45	<vagrantc> Gadi: we use openvt in the shell screen script ...
18:45	<chrisinajar> Ryan52: once we get the qt greeter to compile under automake it'll be in there...
18:45	Ryan52: want the source anyway? it wont compile...
18:45	<stgraber> Gadi: that's a good question :) I'd say its "force" but I can't find it in the manpage ... probably something I copy/pasted from somewhere
18:45	<brendan0powers> also keep in mind a great deal of this was writen with 3 hours of sleep
18:45	<stgraber> Gadi: just drop the -f
18:46	<chrisinajar> hahaha, indeed
18:46	<brendan0powers> so we still need to go and do code cleanup
18:46	<Gadi> ok
18:46	johnny has left #ltsp
18:46	<Ryan52> chrisinajar: why is this in your personal launchpad? why not make a team? I'm sure you coulda convinced ogra to make a subteam for Qt greeter work.
18:46	<chrisinajar> Ryan52: because we wrote all of it within the last 3 days
18:46	<Gadi> any objection to running all screen scripts with openvt?
18:46	<chrisinajar> Ryan52: we just got launchpad working a few hours ago
18:47	Ryan52: and what is a team.
18:47	jammcq has joined #ltsp
18:47	<jammcq> hey all
18:47	<chrisinajar> Hello!!
18:47	<Ryan52> chrisinajar: so that you, brendan, and I can all push to the same repo.
18:47	<jammcq> hey chris
18:47	<Gadi> hey, jammcq
18:47	<stgraber> chrisinajar: just create a ldm-qt-team or something and set the branch owner to this team
18:47	<chrisinajar> Ryan52: awesome. I'll set it up.
18:47	<jammcq> Gadi: hey
18:47	<stgraber> chrisinajar: then you, brendan0powers and anyone else who wants to commit, can join or be invited to that team
18:47	<Gadi> vagrantc, stgraber, warren: any objection to running all screen scripts with openvt?
18:47	<Ryan52> chrisinajar: well, lets make it a subteam of ltsp if we can...ask one of the admins of that team.
18:48	<stgraber> Gadi: no objection, I already do it for all of mine :)
18:48	<Gadi> cool
18:48	Im gonna make the changes
18:48	<vagrantc> Gadi: i guess not.
18:48	* vagrantc is a little weary of testing breakages
18:48	<chrisinajar> jammcq: wanna make an ldm-qt subteam of ltsp for me & brendan & Ryan52? :)
18:48	<jammcq> ummmmm
18:48	<Gadi> vagrantc: hang in there a little longer, pls
18:48	<chrisinajar> (the correct answer is yes, btw)
18:49	<Gadi> 30 mins?
18:49	<jammcq> I'd just have to figure out how
18:49	<stgraber> chrisinajar: you can create the team yourself
18:49	<chrisinajar> stgraber: yeah but then it's not a subteam of ltsp, right?
18:49	<Ryan52> chrisinajar: oh, I see...just make a team.
18:49	<chrisinajar> ps: I totally don't know how to use launchpad... I can't stress that enough :-P
18:49	<stgraber> chrisinajar: right, but I don't think you need it to be a subteam
18:49	<vagrantc> we can always make it a subteam later, if we want, can't we?
18:50	<stgraber> chrisinajar: having it a subteam would give any member of this one commit rights to the whole LTSP project, not sure it's a good idea :)
18:50	vagrantc: sure
18:50	<chrisinajar> oh, yeah screw that.
18:50	<Ryan52> stgraber: I got it backwards...>.<
18:50	launchpad confuses me -_-
18:50	<stgraber> vagrantc: we can then invite that team as you'd for a user
18:50	<chrisinajar> time to fiddle with the launchpad ui and find how to make a team!
18:50	* chrisinajar drumroll
18:51	<stgraber> chrisinajar: https://launchpad.net/people/+newteam
18:52	<Ryan52> chrisinajar: /me is ryan52 on launchpad
18:54	<stgraber> chrisinajar: make it a restricted team so only invited people can join, it's usually a good idea when you're using it to store branches :)
18:55	<chrisinajar> i'm pushing to it now...
18:57	Ryan52, brendan0powers, the new team branch is now up... ~ltsp-ldm-qt/ltsp/ldm-trunk-qtgreeter
18:57	<brendan0powers> awsome
18:58	as soon as I figure out how to make automake not suck, I'l push the qt greeter:)
18:58	<Ryan52> brendan0powers: automake will always suck. :)
18:58	<brendan0powers> yea
18:58	* chrisinajar raises hand
18:59	<chrisinajar> if i wanted to isntall ltsp on a vm to test this stuff, what would you suggest as my best bet...
18:59	just straight up ubuntu ltsp?
19:00	johnny has joined #ltsp
19:01	<brendan0powers> i wonder if i can just get autotools to run qmake and generate the makefile
19:01	<stgraber> chrisinajar: two VMs with network working (one with two NICs, one on internet the other for the LAN). Ubuntu is easy to install and is up to date, so yes it's probably a good choice (and you know it quite well)
19:01	staffencasa has quit IRC
19:01	<stgraber> basically just take the alternate CD, boot it and it F4 at the boot menu, then select LTSP
19:01	it'll give you a working LTSP setup
19:02	<chrisinajar> hmm... does kubuntu have that badass alternative isntall ltsp thing?
19:02	because i really like kde :-P
19:02	<stgraber> I don't think so, at least it's not part of the ISO testing testcases
19:02	you can also just install kubuntu and install ltsp-server afterwards
19:02	doing: apt-get install ltsp-server && ltsp-build-client
19:02	<chrisinajar> huh, that's cool..
19:02	<stgraber> should give you a working LTSP
19:03	then just update /opt/ltsp/i386/ with the new ldm and run ltsp-update-image to regenerate the squashfs
19:05	<chrisinajar> awesome, thanks stgraber
19:08	<Gadi> vagrantc: pushing new ltsp-trunk and ldm-trunk
19:08	932 and 948, respectively
19:08	stgraber: this should eliminate the need for some of your code
19:09	<rjune_> Gadi ?
19:09	<Gadi> hey
19:09	<rjune_> odd to see you here
19:09	<Gadi> I know - I should really go home
19:09	:)
19:09	<jammcq> Gadi: good ride home yesterday?
19:09	<Gadi> long
19:09	but uneventful
19:11	warren has joined #ltsp
19:11	<stgraber> Gadi: yeah, we are currently discussing how we'll continue developing ltsp-cluster with intrepid/jaunty. Once we get that sorted out (should be soon) I'll start working with the new upstream LTSP, packaging it for ubuntu and getting rid of all things we merged from upstream ltsp-cluster code.
19:11	<Gadi> stgraber: eventually, we can squeeze your getltscfg-cluster stuff into screen_session
19:12	<stgraber> Gadi: I'd wait before merging this one, we're still working on the new control center which should make getltscfg-cluster a lot shorter and easier to merge
19:12	<Gadi> ok
19:12	<stgraber> but yeah, we'll probably have it merged before Jaunty's release
19:13	<Gadi> ok, gotta run
19:13	vagrantc, warren: please test the latest ltsp-trunk + ldm-trunk
19:13	and see if it resolves the issue
19:13	also, make sure that you both have openvt in the chroot
19:13	I'll catch you in the AM
19:14	Lns has quit IRC
19:14	<stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~$ dpkg -S /bin/openvt
19:14	kbd: /bin/openvt
19:14	should be in the chroot
19:14	Gadi has left #ltsp
19:16	<warren> what was the actual problem?
19:17	<stgraber> not really a problem, but all the screen scripts had their own loop
19:18	something we also want with ltsp-cluster is to be able to change a SCREEN_XX without rebooting
19:19	that change will help achieve that. I haven't looked at Gadi's change yet but it should be possible to get the config again just before respawning the screen script, making it possible to change it
19:19	so a ldm thin client could become a RDP client when the user logout instead of having to reboot
19:23	<Ryan52> brendan0powers, chrisinajar: merged from ldm-trunk and pushed. run "bzr pull --remember lp:~ltsp-ldm-qt/ltsp/ldm-trunk-qtgreeter" to get the changes. If you already have local commits, then run "bzr merge lp:~ltsp-ldm-qt/ltsp/ldm-trunk-qtgreeter && bzr commit -m 'merge ldm-trunk'"
19:23	local commits meaning ones that have not been pushed to the team repo.
19:32	<vagrantc> stgraber: actually, it was a genuine problem ... X fails to restart from ldm's screen script
19:35	<warren> The latest changes to ldm-trunk and ltsp-trunk made it worse
19:35	openvt: /dev/tty1: illegal vt number
19:36	<stgraber> warren: hang on a sec, I'll look at the code
19:36	warren: looks like -c X is wrong, it should just be the TTY number, not the path
19:36	<warren> did he actually test it before committing?
19:36	it seems to be getting worse
19:36	stgraber: which file?
19:37	<sbalneav> Back
19:37	<stgraber> warren: screen_session probably
19:37	<sbalneav> Friday and saturday we were testing, yeah.
19:37	<Ryan52> sbalneav: no, gadi just broke stuff worse.
19:38	<stgraber> warren: TTY_NUM should be better
19:38	<warren> hence, he didn't even test it
19:39	<stgraber> warren: can you test it ? I don't know if something like "openvt -w -c 01 ..." works or if it needs "-c 1"
19:39	<warren> testing now
19:39	<stgraber> if it does, TTY_NUM will break and we'll need to get drop the 0
19:39	<warren> ok god
19:39	it is bad
19:40	vt 1 is in use, use -f to force
19:40	or sometihng
19:40	<sbalneav> Oh, gadi added some stuff?
19:40	<warren> looping rapidly
19:40	it is utterly broken now
19:40	<stgraber> hehe, so that -f was there for a reason :)
19:40	we were wondering what was the -f from the openvt in my scripts as it's not in the man page
19:40	helpme has joined #ltsp
19:41	<warren> weren't we already using openvt?
19:42	<stgraber> I think we were, but we basically now moved the loop from the screen.d scripts to screen_session
19:42	<warren> why?
19:42	was the cause of the complete failure of ldm to login found?
19:42	<vagrantc> we were only using openvt in the "shell" screen script
19:43	at least it isn't just my environment that's completely broken.
19:43	<stgraber> warren: does "${openvt} -f -w -c ${TTY_NUM} ${SCRIPT_DIR}/${SCREEN_SCRIPT} ${SCREEN_ARGS}" works for you ?
19:43	<warren> well, it is even worse now
19:43	<stgraber> I don't have a thin client around and even if I did I don't have fresh enough ltsp on my setup at the moment ... so can't really test it myself
19:45	<warren> ssh connects and it fails to display any X client
19:45	* vagrantc suggests stgraber's ltsp go freshen up in the powerder room
19:45	<warren> stgraber: that made it work again
19:45	I at least get to ldm now
19:45	but I still can't connect to any session
19:45	even the LDM_DEBUG_TERMINAL fails
19:46	<stgraber> warren: I suspect Xauthority to be broken in your case
19:47	so something in the xauth part of the ldm screen.d script must be wrong
19:48	<sbalneav> stgraber: It was working when we left, are these gadi's cleanups to the xauth that did it?
19:48	<warren> is ldm-trunk working for anyone?
19:49	<stgraber> warren: do you have something in /var/run/ that looks like ldm-xauth-$PID ?
19:49	<warren> looking
19:50	<stgraber> warren: btw, is that LDM_DIRECTX ?
19:50	<warren> stgraber: /var/run/ldm-xauth-RANDOMSTUFF
19:50	stgraber: equally broken with or without LDM_DIRECTX
19:51	<stgraber> warren: xauth -f /var/run/ldm-xauth-RANDOMSTUFF list
19:51	<warren> prints cookies
19:51	<stgraber> ok, can you check the X process, is it using /var/run/ldm-xauth-RANDOMSTUFF ? (should be -auth /var/run/ldm-xauth-RANDOMSTUFF)
19:52	<sbalneav> What happens if you remove the "-auth ${XAUTHORITY} from the xinit line?
19:52	<stgraber> sbalneav: ah, right this one should be needed as we now have XAUTHORITY
19:52	<vagrantc> hrm.
19:53	<warren> stgraber: yes, X is run with it
19:53	<vagrantc> for some bizaarrre reason, i've got a thin-client that getltscfg works when i specify by ip address, but not macaddress.
19:53	i'm cutting and pasting the mac address out of DHCP logs...
19:54	<stgraber> vagrantc: weird, failing to get the mac out of ifconfig or something similar ?
19:54	<warren> vagrantc: did you get ldm-trunk to work at all?
19:55	<vagrantc> warren: slightly, but i haven't tried for a while. i'm working on actualy work problems right now.
19:55	<stgraber> warren: do you have something in .xsession_errors on the server ? like failing to access DISPLAY
19:55	<vagrantc> main thing i get is it logs in, but for whatever reason the ssh call that starts the Xsession never happens.
19:56	<sbalneav> What does syslog say?
19:57	<warren> hold, might have found something
19:57	* vagrantc tries to troubleshoot two problems simultaneously
19:57	<sbalneav> Should be logging to the server in daemon.log
19:57	<warren> X is running as :1, but it is trying :0
19:58	<stgraber> oh, so DISPLAY is wrong ?
19:58	<sbalneav> Off by one somewhere?
19:58	<warren> nope, that is not it
19:58	deleted .xsession_errors and logged in again, nothing
19:58	what is daemon.log?
19:59	I don't have that
19:59	<stgraber> warren: so it's probably just in syslog or messages
19:59	<sbalneav> Ok, for fedorea whare does LOG_DAEMON log to
19:59	It'll be there
20:01	<warren> Spawning greeter: /usr/libexec/ldm/ldmgtkgreet
20:01	ssh_session: ssh -Y -t -M -S /var/run/ldm_socket_1765_172.31.100.254 -o NumberOfPasswordPrompts=1 test@172.31.100.254 echo LTSPROCKS: /bin/sh -
20:01	expect saw: test@172.31.100.254's password:
20:01	expect saw: #015#021LTSPROCKS#015
20:01	Logged in successfully.
20:01	had to copy that manually
20:01	it is failing to run any of the rc.d scripts as well
20:01	stgraber: are you going to commit that fixed openvt line?
20:02	<stgraber> warren: I can do it yes, I also have some other minor things to change (like not having a "break" when you aren't in a loop :))
20:02	<sbalneav> But you never get an "Established ssh session." message?
20:02	<warren> no
20:04	<sbalneav> We've got a double free
20:04	<warren> eh?
20:04	<sbalneav> warren: can you delete line 564 in ldm.c?
20:04	g_free(ldm.password)
20:04	<vagrantc> i've never noticed getltscfg to just simply not work.
20:04	<stgraber> warren: pushed
20:05	<sbalneav> That's 'cuz mcquillan wrote it :)
20:05	<warren> sbalneav: line 564 is the } after exit(0);
20:05	<sbalneav> in ldm.c?
20:05	<warren> yes
20:05	<sbalneav> durr
20:05	527
20:06	dopeslap me
20:06	* vagrantc is beat ugly
20:06	<vagrantc> even getltscfg is failing me today.
20:07	<sbalneav> HAS THE WHOLE WORLD GONE MAD?!?!
20:07	<stgraber> sbalneav: what's the problem with that g_free ?
20:07	<sbalneav> We do it already in ssh_chat
20:07	rcy has joined #ltsp
20:07	<stgraber> ah, ok I only checked ldm.c :)
20:08	<warren> building again...
20:08	<stgraber> sbalneav: why didn't it break when we tested it at the hackfest ?
20:09	<sbalneav> Dunno.
20:10	It may not fix warren's problem.
20:10	But it IS a bug, so let's squash it. :)
20:10	<stgraber> yeah
20:10	<warren> it might be that fedora's standard build flags are a lot more hostile to programming errors
20:11	<sbalneav> I find it odd though that between the last syslog message he DOES get, and the one he doesn't is the double free. :)
20:11	<warren> anyone object to me redirecting the xinit line to /dev/null so it is less noisy?
20:12	<vagrantc> thought you already did that...
20:12	<sbalneav> We should probably save it somewhere, but for now, sure.
20:12	<warren> didn't commit it because I was trying to figure out why tf I couldn't login
20:13	sbalneav: the stuff it prints is not important at all, the important stuff goes into /var/log/Xorg.*log
20:13	<sbalneav> yeah, true enough
20:13	sure bitbucket it.
20:14	<stgraber> the less output my users get the better, go ahead and > /dev/null it
20:14	rcy has quit IRC
20:14	<warren> will have to direct both stderr and stdot
20:15	<stgraber> right
20:15	<warren> still cannot login
20:16	dirigeant has joined #ltsp
20:18	<warren> is nobody else able to test this?
20:18	sbalneav: http://togami.com/~warren/temp/messages
20:18	<sbalneav> I don't have a thin client here at the moment :(
20:18	<warren> sbalneav: this is after removing that g_free()
20:18	I don't have a thin client here either
20:18	I'm using kvm
20:19	<stgraber> I'd need to download an iso image first and internet is ultra slow here (100kB/s or so) ... :(
20:20	<vagrantc> i don't see anything unusual about this terminal, but it absolutely refuses to configure in lts.conf via mac addresss.
20:21	<sbalneav> warren: OK, in sshutils.c
20:21	lets try this
20:21	at line 234, the gfree(port)
20:21	change it to:
20:21	if (ldm.override_port) {
20:21	g_free(port);
20:21	}
20:22	After the syslog message "Logged in successflly", the only things are the g_free password
20:23	<stgraber> and the close_greeter part in ldm.c, then it frees ldm.password and should display Established
20:23	<warren> ok, test a build with this?
20:23	<vagrantc> i can log in once on a freshly created account, but then subsequent logins on that account fail, even if i kill all the users's processes, remove the home directory, and re-create the account.
20:30	<sbalneav> Wow
20:30	warren: yeah
20:30	<warren> building now
20:30	<sbalneav> vagrantc: What does daemon.log say on a failed login?
20:31	otavio has quit IRC
20:33	<vagrantc> i mentioned it in backscroll
20:33	<warren> booting...
20:33	<vagrantc> i've tried so many combinations, my brain is mush.
20:33	15:50 < vagrantc> so, ldm-trunk 945, hangs on login, ... it gets as far as "expect saw: LTSPROCKS", and "logged in sucessfully" ... and then sits there.
20:33	<warren> sbalneav: still nothing
20:34	<stgraber> vagrantc: so same as warren it seems
20:34	<warren> so... only vagrantc and I actually tested it
20:34	it is busted
20:35	<sbalneav> Well, it was certainly working when stgraber and I were testing it.
20:36	<warren> reinstallin the chroot from scratch...
20:37	<stgraber> I'm installing virtualbox at the moment, I'll try with an old Intrepid ISO image, updating it but it'll take a while before I get a working LTSP
20:37	<vagrantc> sbalneav: the ltsp-cluster magic account creation thingy probably made it work a little unusual, though...
20:38	mccann has joined #ltsp
20:38	<stgraber> vagrantc: only parts of the tests were done with the autologin, I used standard ldm (with a real account) for some testing on saturday and sunday
20:39	<vagrantc> when we get it working again, let's call it ldm 2.1, eh? :)
20:39	it's doing enough wacky differences that i think it's warranted.
20:40	<sbalneav> When it's sitting there doing nothing, can we do an strace on ldm?
20:41	<warren> reinstalling chroot now, will take a while
20:41	brb shower
20:43	<sbalneav> vagrantc: Can you strace ldm, see what it's up to after the "Logged in successfully"
20:43	<vagrantc> not tonight, i have a headache
20:43	<stgraber> ok, my test setup is installing
20:43	(standard LTSP, not LTSP+ltsp-cluster)
20:45	<sbalneav> K, hold on, I'll exit X and try running it here.
20:52	back
20:53	brendan0powers has quit IRC
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20:54	<stgraber> sbalneav: so ? have you been able to reproduce ?
20:54	<warren> back
20:54	brendan0powers has quit IRC
20:54	brendan_ has quit IRC
20:54	brendan0powers has joined #ltsp
20:54	brendan_ has joined #ltsp
20:55	brendan0powers has quit IRC
20:55	brendan_ is now known as brendan0powers
20:56	<sbalneav> warren: still trying to get ldm to run locally.
20:56	I think I'm missing the theme
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21:03	<stgraber> sbalneav: you also need to ask configure to put libexec in /usr/lib
21:04	otherwise ldm will try to load /usr/lib/ldm/ldmgtkgreet.so but ldmgtkgreet.so would be in /usr/libexec
21:04	<sbalneav> yeah, got it.
21:04	figuring out now
21:05	<warren> I thought Debian didn't have a libexec dir?
21:05	libexec is a GNU standard that Debian doesn't follow
21:05	<stgraber> warren: we don't but ./configure still tries to use it instead you force it to use /usr/lib
21:05	*until
21:08	<sbalneav> Hm, after the X session ends, I get a sigwaitinfo error in syslog
21:08	vagrantc: you see that?
21:13	<warren> sbalneav: you want me to strace ldm?
21:14	<sbalneav> yeah, it'd help, I think.
21:14	<warren> i'll start the strace right before I login
21:16	oh interesting...
21:16	type wrong name and password, no response from server, restarting...
21:16	and stuck at a black screen
21:16	just like what happens after a successful login
21:17	<vagrantc> sbalneav: see what?
21:17	sbalneav: the libexec thing?
21:18	both debian and ubuntu call from debian/rules: ./configure --prefix=/usr --libexecdir=/usr/lib
21:22	<warren> sbalneav: similar failure path with a wrong login to a correct login
21:25	sbalneav: http://togami.com/~warren/temp/ldm.out
21:25	sbalneav: at this point ldmgtkgreet is defunct
21:27	<sbalneav> Oooooooh
21:27	hold on.
21:28	<warren> sbalneav: should I add those two fixes of g_free() usage to ldm-trunk or you will?
21:34	<sbalneav> Go ahead.
21:34	I'm knees deep into what I think is vagrant's problem
21:34	<warren> sbalneav: related to my problem?
21:35	<sbalneav> Possibly.
21:35	Not sure.
21:35	<warren> sbalneav: my strace tells anything?
21:36	<sbalneav> STill working on it.
21:36	Hard with no X :)
21:37	* vagrantc ponders uploading the virtualbox image for the ltsp server
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21:50	<warren> sbalneav: my latest theory is something odd is going on with the ldm_spawn changes
21:50	sbalneav: I last tested it with success before 940
21:51	sbalneav: not exactly 940, sometime before that
21:51	at the point where I suggested "I want to tag here because it works and I wanted a point in time" but you suggested yuou wanted more fixes in first
21:52	This is an example of why tags != releases
21:52	if I had tagged at that time, we would have a better idea of where it broke
21:52	<jammcq> can't you do a diff using a point-in-time ?
21:52	even cvs does that
21:53	<warren> jammcq: I don't remember exactly when that point in time was
21:53	<jammcq> friday morning
21:53	<warren> what timezone are these date/times in bzr?
21:53	I have no clue
21:54	<jammcq> figure it out.... it can't be that hard
21:55	<warren> I'm rather displeased not only that ldm broke, but Gadi checked in further changes that broke it even more
21:55	<stgraber> bzr diff -r date:2008-11-06
21:55	<warren> his changes were so bad, he clearly couldn't have tested it.
21:55	<jammcq> and he said he'd be back on line first thing in the morning
21:56	clearly it's important to not "break the build" but he'll fix it. he's good for it
21:57	<warren> gadi's problem was fixed by stgraber
21:57	<jammcq> ok, then what's the problem?
21:57	<sbalneav> warren: We were at a hack fest, making a lot of changes
21:58	Did you see an entire test lab in that room that I didn't?
21:59	* Ryan52 opens up virtualbox and sees an entire test lab
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22:01	<sbalneav> Ryan52: We tested it on one thin client we had.
22:01	it worked there.
22:02	<warren> - g_spawn_async_with_pipes(
22:02	+ g_spawn_async_with_pipes (
22:02	NULL, /* Working directory: inherit */
22:02	argv, /* Arguments, null term */
22:02	NULL, /* Environment, inherit from parent */
22:02	flags, /* Flags, set above */
22:02	setup, /* Child setup function: passed to us */
22:02	- data, /* user_data, passed to us */
22:02	+ NULL, /* No user data */
22:02	sbalneav: curious, why data -> NULL?
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22:05	<warren> nevermind, I see.
22:05	<sbalneav> warren: We weren't passing any data args to the setup functions
22:05	So I just cleaned it up.
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22:10	* warren sleep... early morning doctor appt
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23:08	<ms1> Hi
23:08	can anyone help me with italc with ltsp ? I am a little confused ...
23:08	on hardy 8.04.1
23:12	on Hrdy, only client is installed by default ...italc ver 1.07....should I install the master too or remove the client and istall master and client ver 1.09 ?
23:12	:-)
23:12	slow day I guess
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