IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 9 January 2009 (all times are UTC)
| 00:00 | <alkisg> But it's not really a problem, the latest ltsp version doesn't need 30 seconds after a wrong password
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| 00:00 | It would be nice if restart x was *not* needed on this case, though
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| 00:00 | <Ryan52> ya.
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| 00:01 | <alkisg> zer0c00l: which distro?
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| 00:01 | <Ryan52> alkisg, zer0c00l said k12 linux
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| 00:01 | <zer0c00l> yeah
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| 00:01 | <alkisg> Sorry, didn't see that. No idea
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| 00:01 | <zer0c00l> ok
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| 00:19 | phantom has quit IRC | |
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| 00:23 | <alkisg> zer0c00l: oh, I forgot a "usr" in the path, it should be: /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/initramfs-tools/modules
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| 00:24 | <zer0c00l> ok
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| 00:25 | chrisinajar has joined #ltsp | |
| 00:27 | <zer0c00l> its not there too
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| 00:27 | <alkisg> zer0c00l: is your chroot in /opt/ltsp/i386 ?
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| 00:28 | <zer0c00l> i used a diffrent method.....
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| 00:29 | cyberorg has joined #ltsp | |
| 00:29 | <zer0c00l> i copied the /opt/ltsp/i386 of ltsp-5 (k12ltsp)
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| 00:29 | and also the ramdisk
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| 00:29 | chrisinajar has quit IRC | |
| 00:29 | <zer0c00l> the nfs will mount the /opt/ltsp/i386
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| 00:29 | on boot
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| 00:29 | and bring back the boot screen
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| 00:30 | i haven't followed ltsp-5 instructions
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| 00:31 | <alkisg> OK... sorry, I've never seen k12-ltsp.
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| 00:31 | <zer0c00l> ok
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| 00:32 | so which distro are you working in?
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| 00:32 | in that distro you can build your custom kernel and ramdisk for ltsp-5?
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| 00:32 | is there any links available for how to do that in step by step?
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| 00:35 | <alkisg> I'm on Ubuntu 8.10. I don't know of any tutorials on what you're looking...
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| 00:43 | zer0c00l: I'm just reading about k12ltsp... Is the current -EL version newer than the fedora-based one?
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| 00:44 | <zer0c00l> its based on fedora 9
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| 00:45 | EL?
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| 00:45 | <alkisg> Yeah, the cent-os based one
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| 00:45 | http://k12ltsp.org/mediawiki/index.php/Which_K12LTSP_should_I_download%3F
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| 00:45 | <cyberorg> zer0c00l, any reason for custom kernel/initrd?
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| 00:45 | <zer0c00l> i want to add wireless drivers
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| 00:45 | inside initrd
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| 00:46 | so that i can make thin clients work wirelessly
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| 00:46 | <cyberorg> just adding drivers would work?
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| 00:47 | <zer0c00l> i guess so
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| 00:47 | <cyberorg> what about security encryption etc?
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| 00:47 | <zer0c00l> thats not a problem
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| 00:48 | when i used 2.6.17 kernel it hasn't detected my lan card
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| 00:48 | mine is marvel
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| 00:48 | sky2 module
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| 00:48 | <cyberorg> and firmware?
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| 00:49 | <zer0c00l> so i used 2.6.23 custom kernel and it worked for me
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| 00:50 | <cyberorg> adding sky2 is easy, but wireless is drivers, firmware and unless you have insecure open access point - password/key to connect
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| 00:52 | <cyberorg> sky2 or wireless booting?
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| 00:52 | <zer0c00l> wireless booting
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| 00:53 | sky2 is for wired right?
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| 00:54 | <cyberorg> i assumed it was wired
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| 00:54 | <zer0c00l> yeah
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| 00:54 | sky2 is for wired
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| 00:55 | the ramdisk provided by k12 linux does not include all the wireless drivers
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| 00:56 | <cyberorg> ok, if you have openSUSE 11.1 test server i can try and help add modules to initrd
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| 00:56 | <zer0c00l> ok
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| 00:56 | let me download openSUSE 11.1
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| 00:57 | does it have tools to add modules to initrd
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| 00:57 | they have separate edition for ltsp or integrated with distro?
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| 00:57 | <cyberorg> yes
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| 00:57 | <zer0c00l> ok
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| 00:58 | <cyberorg> http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP
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| 00:58 | vagrantc has joined #ltsp | |
| 00:58 | <cyberorg> we install LTSP separately after installation of the OS
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| 00:58 | hi vagrantc :)
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| 01:05 | <vagrantc> hi
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| 01:14 | <zer0c00l> in opensuse does the mkinitrd command generates ltsp compatible ramdisk?
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| 01:26 | <Ryan52> vagrantc, you still around?
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| 01:26 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: yeah
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| 01:26 | hope to sleep soonish, though
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| 01:26 | <Ryan52> that sed has a syntax error also.
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| 01:26 | the 's/,$,,g' part.
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| 01:26 | sed: -e expression #2, char 7: unterminated `s' command
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| 01:26 | warren_ is now known as warren | |
| 01:27 | * Ryan52 noticed it and the missing ) when you first committed it, but then you went "poof" :) | |
| 01:27 | <Ryan52> and then I forgot :p
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| 01:27 | alkisg has quit IRC | |
| 01:28 | <vagrantc> gah.
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| 01:28 | i'm feeling sloppy
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| 01:29 | i noticed *both* of those and somehow still committed them.
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| 01:29 | <Ryan52> heh
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| 01:30 | <vagrantc> i normally use , for my sed expressions, so it's practically reflex
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| 01:31 | <zer0c00l> byeeeeee
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| 01:31 | room
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| 01:32 | <vagrantc> i was getting some really weird issues with multiple xatomwait commands running... now i realized that ldm doesn't use the same logic for dirs as run-parts ...
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| 01:33 | egrep ^[0-9a-zA-Z_\-]*$
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| 01:34 | and number of numbers, letters, underscores and hyphens
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| 01:35 | but ldm seems to run S01-localapps.old, S01-localapps.orig, and S01-localapps.[0-9] too ... so when i had a half-dozen in there, it would spawn a half-dozen localapps...
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| 06:52 | <Appiah_> does anyone know where nbd-server keeps it's log?
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| 06:53 | I'm having an issue "squashfs error" nbd0 Attemped send on closed socket
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| 06:54 | (when booting)
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| 07:01 | <alkisg> Appiah: grep nbd /var/log/daemon.log
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| 07:02 | But I also get this error in Ubuntu 8.10 while everything works fine.
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| 07:06 | <Appiah_> alkisg: thanks but already found it
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| 07:07 | log says nothing
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| 07:07 | it the same in syslog
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| 07:08 | alkisg: Ye I read about people getting the error when they are already logged in
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| 07:08 | but this is during boot
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| 07:08 | <alkisg> I get the error during boot, and it boots fine
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| 07:08 | <Appiah_> which makes it unable to boot
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| 07:10 | takes a long time for a [FAIL] to appear
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| 07:12 | <Appiah_> then you have to reboot
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| 07:12 | <Appiah_> We need the clients to be able to boot up and login at pretty much the same time =(
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| 07:13 | booting 3-5 at a time is not a simple solution when school students are using these terminals
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| 07:16 | <alkisg> Appiah_: when you finally boot the clients, do they work OK? I mean even under heavy usage, e.g. if you try to watch video in all of them...
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| 07:19 | <Appiah_> I'd say it's OK
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| 07:19 | the login time can get long during heavy use
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| 07:19 | but atm there is not much activity
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| 07:20 | some temrinals are on at login and one is being used, and we are rebooting 5 at the same time
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| 07:20 | to find 1-2 booting OK while the others get the nbd error when doing the "Setting up LTSP" step
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| 07:22 | <Appiah_> found this on the temrminal : ltsp-client-setup awk sort input output error
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| 07:31 | <nubae> Appiah_: still with the same issues?
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| 07:34 | <alkisg> Appiah_: I can't see a "Setting up LTSP" step in the boot process. What exactly does it say when the problem occurs?
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| 07:34 | <nubae> alkisg: are u subscribed to edubuntu-devel?
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| 07:35 | <Appiah_> nubae: na we got past the DHCP issue
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| 07:35 | <alkisg> nubae, no
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| 07:35 | <nubae> oh... how?
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| 07:35 | alkisg: u should subscribe... so we can discuss the future of edubuntu there
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| 07:35 | <nubae> especially which apps are to go into Jaunty
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| 07:35 | <Appiah_> with an ugly workaround , we plugged in and old machine that had 8.04 on it , used its dhcp3-server and made it point to the 8.10 tftp
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| 07:36 | and that worked >_>
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| 07:36 | <nubae> hmmm, so it was the dhcp server in 8.10?
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| 07:36 | <Appiah_> we tried downgrading 8.10 dhcp3 but that didnt work
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| 07:36 | <alkisg> nubae: I don't know if I'm the right person for this... I don't use much apps from the edubuntu addon cd, I don't even have it installed at school, I only installed it at a home pc to see what's in it
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| 07:36 | <Appiah_> we used an older version of dhcp3 , still didn't work
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| 07:36 | now we are having an issue with this squashfs
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| 07:36 | <nubae> u could try create a chrooted dhcp, maybe that would work
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| 07:36 | <Appiah_> sorry I'll try to read what the step is called
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| 07:37 | <nubae> alkisg: this is to discuss which new items should be supported by edubuntu community
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| 07:37 | like, the ones that are popularly used by schools that are not in main
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| 07:37 | ie, outside the addon-cd
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| 07:38 | <alkisg> nubae: I'll subscribe, but I don't know how much I'll be able to help... :(
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| 07:38 | <Appiah_> * Setting up LTSP Client" thats the step that fails
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| 07:38 | <nubae> well, just giving input like saying 'I like progam X' is already good ;-)
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| 07:39 | <Appiah_> then etc/rcS.d/S* and all of of them say input/output error
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| 07:41 | <alkisg> Do you have anything customized in the chroot or is it default install?
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| 07:41 | <Appiah_> S32ltsp-client-setup is one of them
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| 07:41 | the chroot is pretty much clean
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| 07:42 | we did install some stuff and remove it later
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| 07:42 | we can try to wipe it and make a new one
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| 07:42 | <nubae> yeah try it with a virgin chroot first
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| 07:42 | messing with the chroot, however small, may cause booting issues
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| 07:42 | <alkisg> I don't think I see any rcS.d/S* messages in the console, maybe there's a broken script somewhere...
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| 07:48 | <encompass> Howdy all, can someone point me to a ltsp howto for ubuntu that shows me how to do a setup WITHOUT PXE, for example from cd/hd/or floppy
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| 07:49 | <alkisg> encompass: http://www.rom-o-matic.net/ => download either floppy or cd version
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| 07:50 | <encompass> alkisg: woot thanks
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| 07:50 | <alkisg> encompass: if you have grub/lilo on your laptop, you may also download gpxe.krn and load it from menu.lst with kernel=gpxe.krn
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| 07:50 | (to put it on the hd, I mean)
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| 07:51 | <encompass> that is probably the best direction for me
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| 07:51 | thnaks
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| 07:55 | <Appiah_> same thing happend with a clean client image
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| 08:23 | <Appiah_> any new ideas? =(
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| 11:06 | <kc8pxy> i'm the proud new owner of a successful ltsp-build-client. how do i test it?
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| 11:08 | <johnny> what other infra do you have setup? existing dhcp /tftp server?
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| 11:09 | <kc8pxy> existing dhcp, never needed a tftp before.
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| 11:09 | alkisg has quit IRC | |
| 11:09 | <johnny> what dhcp server
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| 11:10 | <kc8pxy> dhcpd in portage.
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| 11:10 | <johnny> ok, so ..
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| 11:10 | first enable ldminfod for xinetd
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| 11:10 | so you don't forget later
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| 11:11 | just change the line disable = yes to disable = no
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| 11:11 | under /etc/xinetd.d/
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| 11:11 | <kc8pxy> wha?
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| 11:11 | <johnny> and then start it up
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| 11:11 | and make sure it starts on boot
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| 11:11 | <kc8pxy> please assume i have never done any of this
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| 11:11 | <johnny> i am
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| 11:12 | i told you which line to change specifically
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| 11:12 | and then use rc-update to enable it to start at boot
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| 11:12 | and also manually start it
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| 11:12 | <kc8pxy> johnny: i never isntalled xinetd myself.. did the build-client do it for me?
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| 11:12 | <johnny> yes
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| 11:12 | no
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| 11:12 | sorry
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| 11:12 | emerging ltsp-server should have
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| 11:12 | <kc8pxy> ok, please do not assume i know such facts.
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| 11:13 | <johnny> well you didn't need to know
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| 11:13 | unless it doesn't exist :)
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| 11:13 | if i tell you to do something, that means it should exist :)
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| 11:15 | <kc8pxy> which file in xinetd.d/ do i edit to change the line?
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| 11:15 | i don't see a ldminfod
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| 11:16 | <johnny> hmm.. perhaps i missed something..
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| 11:16 | i bet i did..
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| 11:16 | lemme see
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| 11:16 | <kc8pxy> johnny: seeing how, as with all beta-quality software(which i consider ltsp-server on gentoo, easy to do :-(
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| 11:17 | <johnny> huh?
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| 11:18 | <kc8pxy> missing a bit of this, or a bit of that, is easy, when you are just getting something up to par :)
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| 11:18 | * kc8pxy knows from experience :-( | |
| 11:18 | <johnny> this was a recent change in the structure of ltsp
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| 11:18 | i just didn't add the dep
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| 11:19 | i did the ebuild, but forgot the dep
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| 11:19 | <kc8pxy> doh! :)
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| 11:19 | <johnny> one moment
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| 11:20 | <kc8pxy> i've done that with the rails app i use often.. when i update it via git, i have to change permissions, because apache won't work with it owned by the user, and rake db:migrate won't run with it permissioned so apache can serve it :-(
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| 11:21 | sometimes i update, and DOH< i forgot to re-chown it :)
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| 11:22 | <johnny> kc8pxy, layman -s ltsp
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| 11:22 | and emerge ltsp-server
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| 11:22 | it should pull in ldminfod now
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| 11:25 | now i need to go back over the other changes
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| 11:32 | <kc8pxy> johnny: do i need to do a full ltsp-build-client from scratch now?
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| 11:32 | <johnny> no
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| 11:32 | not for this anyways
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| 11:34 | <kc8pxy> it didn't pull in any new packages in emerge, just had a profile.qs change.
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| 11:35 | <johnny> does your local copy have ldminfod in ltsp-server ?
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| 11:35 | net-misc/ldminfod
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| 11:35 | it should yell at you to unmask it (keyword)
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| 11:36 | <kc8pxy> didn't say anything. let me check it with update-eix&& eix ldminfo
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| 11:37 | <evilx> are there any documents on getting LTSP to use VNC instead of X11?
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| 11:37 | <kc8pxy> it's in the overlay, but not installed,
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| 11:37 | evilx: ...... why?
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| 11:38 | <evilx> would it be faster then X1?
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| 11:38 | X11?
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| 11:38 | <kc8pxy> evilx: why?
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| 11:38 | <evilx> that was my question would it be faster
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| 11:39 | <johnny> no
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| 11:39 | it wouldn't
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| 11:39 | if it were.. and did what we needed, we'd be using it
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| 11:39 | kc8pxy, look at the ebuild contents
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| 11:39 | <evilx> hm ok
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| 11:39 | <johnny> for ltsp-server
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| 11:40 | <kc8pxy> evilx: i didn't think it would be.. instead of full screens, with x11, the client is given x11 commands, which are FAR smaller than vnc. IIRC. smaller data for the dame task = faster
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| 11:41 | <evilx> hmm ok
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| 11:41 | <johnny> kc8pxy, look!
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| 11:41 | so i can get back to work :)
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| 11:42 | last line of RDEPEND should have it ..
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| 11:42 | <kc8pxy> it does.. why did it not get pulled?
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| 11:42 | <johnny> emerge ltsp-server -av
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| 11:43 | <kc8pxy> just ltsp-server
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| 11:43 | <johnny> emerge -1 ldminfod -av
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| 11:43 | <evilx> i guess ltsp-server is not in the main portage
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| 11:43 | <johnny> no.. it isn't
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| 11:44 | it's in an overlay
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| 11:44 | <evilx> ah, was going to say I just logged on a server and noticed
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| 11:44 | <kc8pxy> johnny: keywords.. fixing
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| 11:48 | <sbalneav> evilx: vnc specifically tries to keep the amount of data flowing over the wire small
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| 11:49 | but at the cost of greatly increased processing power needed to calculate the smalles "dfferences" it can send.
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| 11:49 | ccherrett has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:49 | <sbalneav> so for a slow speed connection (say, over a wan link), VNC will give you much faster performance.
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| 11:50 | <johnny> but.. local devices..?
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| 11:50 | <sbalneav> but, on a fast (100 mbps or better) lan, with 30 or so clients, you'll simply kill the server with processing.
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| 11:50 | johnny: ?
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| 11:50 | Was that directed at me?
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| 11:50 | <johnny> they don't work over plain vnc?
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| 11:51 | <sbalneav> Not as far as I know.
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| 11:51 | <johnny> yeah.. that's what i thought
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| 11:51 | just making sure
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| 11:51 | <ogra> just because johnny didnt patch it yet :P
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| 11:51 | slacker
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| 11:51 | <johnny> ogra, how are you!
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| 11:51 | <sbalneav> hey ogra!
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| 11:51 | <ogra> :)
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| 11:51 | hey
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| 11:51 | busy
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| 11:51 | <sbalneav> I'm off for lunch, be back in an hour.
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| 11:51 | <johnny> so.. when are we gonna hack on dbus and test it and whatnot?
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| 11:51 | <ogra> building arm stuff
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| 11:52 | <CAN-o-SPAM> hey ogra, any word from the HW guy?
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| 11:52 | <johnny> kc8pxy, so.. where are you now?
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| 11:52 | <ogra> hmm, not to me, his boss asked me for your mail addy and wanted to mail you ... but thats four weeks ago
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| 11:52 | <CAN-o-SPAM> haven't heard anything
| |
| 11:52 | <ogra> though given that all my mails to ltsp.org come back he mght have a similar issue
| |
| 11:52 | <kc8pxy> johnny: got ldminfod in /etc/xinetd.d/ set NOT to disable.
| |
| 11:53 | Lns has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:53 | <ogra> jam@Ltsp.org
| |
| 11:53 | Delay reason: SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<jam@Ltsp.org>:
| |
| 11:53 | host www.ltsp.org [70.91.230.211]: 450 Server configuration problem
| |
| 11:53 | <johnny> so.. add it to your rc-update
| |
| 11:53 | and /etc/init.d/xinetd start
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| 11:54 | kc8pxy, and then... you need to setup your tftp server
| |
| 11:54 | you should have tftp-hap
| |
| 11:54 | err -hap
| |
| 11:54 | UGGH
| |
| 11:54 | -hpa
| |
| 11:57 | you want to set INTFTPD_PATH="/var/lib/tftpboot" in /etc/conf.d/in.tftpd
| |
| 11:57 | and also set that to start on boot and start it now
| |
| 11:58 | zerocool has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:58 | <zerocool> hi
| |
| 11:59 | <johnny> kc8pxy, and then mkdir -p /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/x86
| |
| 11:59 | ooh.. one more
| |
| 11:59 | pxelinux.cfg
| |
| 11:59 | directory
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| 12:00 | mkdir -p /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/x86/pxelinux.cfg
| |
| 12:01 | and then you want /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/x86/pxelinux.cfg/default file with this contents
| |
| 12:01 | DEFAULT bzImage ro initrd=initramfs root=/dev/ram0 real_root=/dev/nfs nfsroot=192.168.2.4:/opt/ltsp/x86
| |
| 12:01 | <zerocool> anybody online know much abt rdesktop to windows from ltsp clients?
| |
| 12:01 | <johnny> with your own ip instead..
| |
| 12:01 | zerocool, some people do.. but i'm not one of em..
| |
| 12:02 | <zerocool> johnny, kool man. how about another?
| |
| 12:02 | <kc8pxy> i've done it, IIRC
| |
| 12:03 | but i don't know much about it
| |
| 12:03 | <zerocool> kc8pxy, alright when u did were the clients randomly disconnecting every 5 or 10 mins if they didn'
| |
| 12:04 | <johnny> kc8pxy, done that ?
| |
| 12:04 | <zerocool> t log in to the windoz server?
| |
| 12:04 | <johnny> what i said that is
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| 12:04 | japerry has quit IRC | |
| 12:04 | <johnny> kc8pxy, it'd be nice if i could force the choice of directory here :( so you didn't have to do this manually .. :(
| |
| 12:05 | <kc8pxy> johnny: when all is done and stable, i plan to have many and several options in the pxelinux.cfg, will that hinder things?
| |
| 12:06 | <johnny> i don't know
| |
| 12:06 | <zerocool> like before the username and pw are enter you get the windoz login screen but if you don't enter the login info then windoz disconnects the client. the local rdesktop process then reconnects to the server.
| |
| 12:06 | <Gadi> zerocool: that is a built-in Windows "feature"
| |
| 12:06 | <johnny> kc8pxy, since you manually maintain it, that is up to you i guess
| |
| 12:06 | <Gadi> if you want to mitigate its annoyance, put a while loop in the /usr/local/bin/rdesktop file we made yesterday
| |
| 12:07 | <johnny> kc8pxy, so.. tell me when you get all that done
| |
| 12:07 | <Gadi> that will respawn rdesktop within X (and not respawn the xserver)
| |
| 12:07 | <zerocool> Gabi, ok kool. I'll check that. But the ltsp client does reconnect but it just looks stupid that the sreen blanks out then comes back.
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| 12:07 | pmatulis has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:08 | * kc8pxy wishes he had set a logger on this channel :-( | |
| 12:08 | <johnny> there is a logger
| |
| 12:08 | <zerocool> i get it. i'll try that.
| |
| 12:08 | <Gadi> zerocool: the rdesktop screen script doesn't get much loving around here
| |
| 12:08 | <zerocool> Gadi, tks.
| |
| 12:09 | <Gadi> that will change with the next release
| |
| 12:09 | :)
| |
| 12:10 | <johnny> kc8pxy, ???
| |
| 12:11 | <kc8pxy> johnny: I'm watching the kids too, so I'm working a bit slow
| |
| 12:11 | <johnny> you're the one with the deadline :)
| |
| 12:11 | lol
| |
| 12:11 | <kc8pxy> true :)
| |
| 12:12 | <johnny> i'm tryin to help you get it goin
| |
| 12:12 | but i may not be able to stay in and out
| |
| 12:12 | i'll prolly be gone by 3 for a little while.. but i'll be back in the evening EST
| |
| 12:12 | 3 EST that is..
| |
| 12:15 | kc8pxy, after that.. you need to ln -s pxelinux.0 into ltsp/x86
| |
| 12:15 | you can find the path via equery or whatever
| |
| 12:16 | and copy your kernel and initramfs into ltsp/x86
| |
| 12:16 | you are going to have to do one nasty hack until genkernel gets a bug fix
| |
| 12:17 | chroot into the ltsp chroot like so linux32 chroot /opt/ltsp/x86 and then edit /usr/share/genkernel/x86/modules_load and add your various network modules to MODULES_NET
| |
| 12:17 | vagrantc has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:17 | <johnny> and you can remove all the other lines you don't need
| |
| 12:17 | and then genkernel initrd and copy that into the ltsp/x86
| |
| 12:17 | and you should be good to boot
| |
| 12:17 | ooh.. you also have to add to dhcpd config , there should be an example config file for that in the docs
| |
| 12:17 | * vagrantc has been busy re-writing the localapps group handling code ... | |
| 12:17 | <vagrantc> the old code did some evil things
| |
| 12:18 | <Gadi> thems fightin words
| |
| 12:18 | <vagrantc> heh
| |
| 12:18 | <Lns> zerocool: What, did your mommy buy you a 'puter for Christmas? ;)
| |
| 12:19 | * Lns needs to watch Hackers again | |
| 12:19 | <kc8pxy> lns: LOL...
| |
| 12:19 | * Gadi thought he was the only one allowed to talk trash | |
| 12:20 | <kc8pxy> Lns: IIRC Lord Nikon said that, yes?
| |
| 12:20 | <vagrantc> well, it seems like the old code more or less assumed that it was ok to re-number existing groups on the client ... this re-write basically only adds groups if they don't already exist on the client, and adds the user to existing groups as needed
| |
| 12:20 | <Lns> kc8pxy: yes, yes he did!
| |
| 12:20 | <vagrantc> and handles gid discrepancies ...
| |
| 12:21 | <Lns> Gadi: sorry, i forgot I didnt have the trash talking token :(
| |
| 12:22 | <ltsppbot> "vagrantc" pasted "localapps patch to minimize tweaking /etc/groups" (89 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/166
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| 12:23 | <vagrantc> now i'll also tackle re-writing the user's default group if needed
| |
| 12:23 | <kc8pxy> johnny: got the those lines i think.
| |
| 12:25 | * vagrantc feels dirty, mangling /etc/groups and /etc/password so much | |
| 12:27 | * ogra hands a box of detergent to vagrantc | |
| 12:27 | <kc8pxy> johnny: into the tfpt ltsp/x86 dir?
| |
| 12:27 | * vagrantc now feels poisoned | |
| 12:27 | <ogra> heh
| |
| 12:27 | <johnny> kc8pxy, ?
| |
| 12:27 | yeah.. the one i had you create...
| |
| 12:29 | <kc8pxy> ln -s /usr/share/syslinux/pxelinux.0 /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/x86/pxelinux.0 ??
| |
| 12:29 | look right?
| |
| 12:29 | <johnny> no
| |
| 12:30 | oh yes
| |
| 12:30 | sorry
| |
| 12:30 | that's fine
| |
| 12:30 | <Gadi> vagrantc: why not continue to use usermod?
| |
| 12:30 | <vagrantc> presuming your tftpd daemon doesn't mind symlinks
| |
| 12:30 | Gadi: so i don't have to have /etc/ writeable
| |
| 12:31 | <Gadi> you still need to cp $TMPGROUP /etc/group
| |
| 12:31 | <vagrantc> Gadi: yes.
| |
| 12:31 | Gadi: it does
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| 12:31 | <Gadi> doesnt that require writable /etc?
| |
| 12:31 | <vagrantc> writeable /etc/group, yes.
| |
| 12:32 | not writeable /etc
| |
| 12:32 | <Gadi> does usermod create a tmp file in /etc?
| |
| 12:32 | <vagrantc> yes
| |
| 12:33 | <Gadi> are you sure?
| |
| 12:33 | <johnny> fighting writable /etc seems like a bad battle :(
| |
| 12:33 | <vagrantc> or soemthing like that
| |
| 12:33 | <Gadi> I thought it edits /etc/group directly
| |
| 12:33 | <johnny> lots of fragile hacks
| |
| 12:33 | <vagrantc> Gadi: there's one check i haven't done yet, making /etc/group- writeable
| |
| 12:33 | Gadi: it edits it directly, but it tries to create a lockfile, and i believe that lockfile is beside /etc/group
| |
| 12:34 | <Gadi> ah
| |
| 12:34 | Im with johnny, Id rather use tools as much as possible
| |
| 12:34 | <vagrantc> i agree, but i don't want to require a writeable /etc
| |
| 12:34 | <Gadi> rather than sed'ing the file
| |
| 12:35 | <johnny> i think it would be better time spent on making writable /etc easier
| |
| 12:35 | is it that debian does not come with aufs or unionfs built in?
| |
| 12:35 | there's always funionfs ..
| |
| 12:35 | or whatever
| |
| 12:35 | <Lns> funionfs? 8)
| |
| 12:35 | <vagrantc> no, those exist.
| |
| 12:35 | <kc8pxy> johnny: where did genkernel put my kernel/initrd?
| |
| 12:36 | <johnny> in /boot in the chroot
| |
| 12:36 | <kc8pxy> and what is this hack?
| |
| 12:36 | * kc8pxy avoids genkernel like the plague. | |
| 12:36 | <johnny> the hack is that genkernel does not have many network modules built in
| |
| 12:36 | kc8pxy, that would be silly.. genkernel is great..
| |
| 12:36 | building lvm enabled intramfs would suck
| |
| 12:36 | by hand
| |
| 12:36 | <vagrantc> johnny: aufs exists in debian, and works with NBD ... haven't tried with NFS recently. i really don't want to force NBD.
| |
| 12:37 | <johnny> well.. don't force nbd
| |
| 12:37 | for aufs
| |
| 12:37 | force aufs*
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| 12:37 | aufs should work fine with nfs
| |
| 12:37 | <kc8pxy> johnny: mebbe in curren rev, but i had ugliness in it's infancy. i got in the habit of compiling it manually.
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| 12:37 | <vagrantc> historically unionfs-style filesystems haven't played nice with NFS
| |
| 12:37 | <johnny> sure.. but i thought that was the point of the aufs version in the first place
| |
| 12:37 | hanthana is now known as sdziallas_____ | |
| 12:37 | <johnny> over unionfs
| |
| 12:37 | sdziallas_____ is now known as hanthana | |
| 12:38 | <vagrantc> johnny: it brings us back to your fragility argument... i've seen it unionfs+nfs stuff break, get fixed, get broken again, get fixed ... over and over again
| |
| 12:38 | <johnny> kc8pxy, genkernel is unnecessary if you don't use an initramfs of course.. but building one by hand would suck
| |
| 12:38 | vagrantc, seems on ubuntu it has been fine for a year?
| |
| 12:38 | is that not the case/
| |
| 12:38 | ?
| |
| 12:38 | <vagrantc> johnny: they're not using NFS
| |
| 12:38 | <johnny> people still use it with nfs
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| 12:39 | even if it isn't distributed that way by default
| |
| 12:39 | <vagrantc> maybe it has finally stabalized.
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| 12:39 | <johnny> ogra would know
| |
| 12:39 | or laga maybe
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| 12:39 | <ogra> ?
| |
| 12:39 | what do i know ?
| |
| 12:39 | <kc8pxy> johnny: i believe i agree.. but the only time i use an initramfs is when I'm setting up a bottsplash, or when i cp /mnt/cdrom/isolinux/gentoo* /mnr/gentoo/boot/ :)
| |
| 12:39 | <ogra> i know nothing
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| 12:40 | <vagrantc> ogra happily abandoned NFS a long time ago, no? :)
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| 12:40 | <johnny> sure, but the docs still tell you how to enable nfs for testing and developing
| |
| 12:40 | i myself tried it, didn't have a problem.. but that was before aufs
| |
| 12:41 | and laga was the one who spearheaded that effort ?
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| 12:41 | <vagrantc> i think those instructions switch it back to bind mounting
| |
| 12:41 | <ogra> yes, i did
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| 12:41 | <kc8pxy> johnny: where is the bzImage and initrd?
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| 12:41 | <johnny> vagrantc, maybe it's only a mythbuntu thing then
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| 12:41 | kc8pxy, i just told you ?
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| 12:42 | /opt/ltsp/x86/boot
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| 12:42 | CAN-o-SPAM has quit IRC | |
| 12:43 | <vagrantc> ok, so i'll re-write my patch to assume a writeable /etc
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| 12:43 | <Gadi> ah, peer pressure on the playground
| |
| 12:43 | its a beautiful thing
| |
| 12:43 | <johnny> of course.. that generates work for me.. as i currently rely on bind mounts too :)
| |
| 12:44 | cuz it just worked with the setup
| |
| 12:44 | <vagrantc> but i'll continue to work on my crazy patches too :P
| |
| 12:44 | <Gadi> of course you will
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| 12:44 | <vagrantc> johnny: i bet you had similar problems to what caused me to look into this
| |
| 12:44 | <Gadi> (isnt he just precious)
| |
| 12:44 | :)
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| 12:44 | <johnny> vagrantc, i had it with /etc/ld.so.cache
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| 12:44 | <vagrantc> johnny: gid discrepancies, localapps user in the wrong groups
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| 12:44 | <johnny> for the gentoo env-update command
| |
| 12:44 | that requires writable /etc
| |
| 12:45 | so the plan is to use aufs or funionfs .. no matter how much work it takes
| |
| 12:45 | too many commands to hack
| |
| 12:45 | to continue fighting the flow
| |
| 12:46 | that is my argument anyways...
| |
| 12:46 | we can't have hacked versions of everything people want to use
| |
| 12:49 | <vagrantc> Gadi: ok, so what's the tool to add a group that's distro-independent?
| |
| 12:49 | the previous code relied on simply appending it to groups... but i want to use *tools* to do this. :)
| |
| 12:50 | <Gadi> groupadd
| |
| 12:50 | <vagrantc> you sure it works consistantly across distros?
| |
| 12:50 | <Gadi> if we can use usermod, we can use groupadd
| |
| 12:51 | <johnny> any tool that is in util-linux or coreutils should exist across distros
| |
| 12:51 | util-linux-ng ..
| |
| 12:51 | <vagrantc> i remember useradd and adduser being very different between debian and redhat-derived systems
| |
| 12:51 | <johnny> useradd and adduser are different tools
| |
| 12:52 | useradd is in one of those
| |
| 12:52 | adduser isn't
| |
| 12:52 | <Gadi> right - but useradd and useradd should be equivalent
| |
| 12:52 | ;)
| |
| 12:52 | <johnny> i don't think i even have adduser
| |
| 12:52 | <vagrantc> groupadd [-g GID [-o]] [-f] [-K KEY=VALUE] group
| |
| 12:52 | <johnny> oh.. i do..
| |
| 12:52 | <Gadi> but, why are you adding groups anyway?
| |
| 12:53 | you should never add groups
| |
| 12:53 | <vagrantc> Gadi: because i'm only adding groups to the thin client that the user is part of
| |
| 12:53 | <Gadi> be careful, tho
| |
| 12:53 | your script should:
| |
| 12:53 | <ogra> how do you make sure the GID matches ?
| |
| 12:53 | <vagrantc> well, we certainly haven't been careful yet.
| |
| 12:53 | all sorts of issues with the current code.
| |
| 12:54 | well, having a matching gid is actually a security issue ... i.e. if a daemon already started with one gid, and suddenly that gid is taken over by some other group, you have problems.
| |
| 12:54 | <Gadi> 1. when server groups and client groups have same name and different ids and are system groups, use client group entries and throw awway server
| |
| 12:54 | pmatulis has quit IRC | |
| 12:55 | <Gadi> 2. when a server group has a gid that is the same as a client group, and it is a system group, dump it
| |
| 12:55 | (no sense in changing gids of server groups)
| |
| 12:56 | you should never change gids
| |
| 12:56 | in this code
| |
| 12:56 | <vagrantc> then i end up without a group name
| |
| 12:56 | <Gadi> how?
| |
| 12:57 | <vagrantc> if 2 kicks in, and there's no corresponding group on the client?
| |
| 12:58 | <Gadi> it should have a group of that name, just a different ID
| |
| 12:58 | lets do an example
| |
| 12:58 | so this isnt so confusing
| |
| 12:58 | :)
| |
| 12:58 | server: pulse=110, fuse=111
| |
| 12:59 | client: fuse=110, pulse=200
| |
| 12:59 | user is member of fuse and pulse
| |
| 12:59 | <vagrantc> yeah, that's no problem.
| |
| 12:59 | what about...
| |
| 12:59 | <Gadi> but pulse and fuse have same gid
| |
| 13:00 | but, we want the user to be a member of the client's groups with the client's gids
| |
| 13:00 | <vagrantc> server: fuse=111, pulse doesn't exist client: pulse=111, fuse=200
| |
| 13:00 | <Gadi> ok, well then the user is only a member of fuse
| |
| 13:00 | (cannot belong to pulse, as pulse doesnt exist)
| |
| 13:01 | so, we want:
| |
| 13:01 | <vagrantc> so we throw out groups that aren't on the client ...
| |
| 13:01 | <Gadi> user on client is member of fuse (200)
| |
| 13:02 | no, the user never belonged to pulse, so we just dont add him to pulse
| |
| 13:02 | when we modify what groups the user belongs to, we use usermod
| |
| 13:02 | pmatulis has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:02 | <Gadi> so: usermod -G fuse $user
| |
| 13:02 | <vagrantc> right.
| |
| 13:02 | usermod handles missing groups?
| |
| 13:02 | <Gadi> the key is, fuse should be 200
| |
| 13:02 | myGroups does
| |
| 13:03 | because myGroups is all the groups that the user belongs to on the server
| |
| 13:03 | <vagrantc> presuming i didn't break that
| |
| 13:03 | <Gadi> we just need to make sure the groups on the client all have the client-side gids
| |
| 13:03 | <vagrantc> right
| |
| 13:03 | <Gadi> and not server gids
| |
| 13:03 | when groupsnames overlap
| |
| 13:03 | hanthana has quit IRC | |
| 13:03 | encompass has left #ltsp | |
| 13:04 | <Gadi> the only thing missing from current code is to throw out groups that have conflicting gids
| |
| 13:04 | <vagrantc> so, the simplest way i see to do that is ... get the user's server-side groups, append any missing groups on the client.
| |
| 13:04 | <Gadi> which is what tripped you up
| |
| 13:04 | because you had:
| |
| 13:04 | fuse:x:111
| |
| 13:04 | pulse:x:111
| |
| 13:05 | so, we just need to throw away dup'd gids
| |
| 13:05 | <vagrantc> i think it's easier to only add what you need, no?
| |
| 13:06 | <Gadi> I think I wrote it that way, so I could just loop through one file
| |
| 13:06 | instead of having to check the contents of one file against another
| |
| 13:06 | so, append the lines to the end, and then throw them out
| |
| 13:07 | <Lns> you guys are AWESOME
| |
| 13:07 | just wanted to say that.
| |
| 13:07 | <Gadi> if you start with the current code, it would just mean for each line storing a "gids" list along with the "gnames" list
| |
| 13:07 | <vagrantc> what i'm thinking ... since the only groups we care about are the groups the user should belong to ... we ignore missing groups?
| |
| 13:07 | <Gadi> and throwing out the dups
| |
| 13:07 | <vagrantc> forget about dupes ... let's just not duplicate it
| |
| 13:07 | add what you need, and only what you need
| |
| 13:07 | <Gadi> what if you add a group that conflicts
| |
| 13:08 | <vagrantc> conflicts how?
| |
| 13:08 | <Gadi> ok, say the current groups list has:
| |
| 13:08 | fuse:x:111
| |
| 13:08 | pulse:x:112
| |
| 13:08 | myGroups tells you the user belongs to the fuse group
| |
| 13:09 | you want to check the groups file and see if it has the fuse group, then if it does, move on and if it doesnt add it in
| |
| 13:09 | or conversely
| |
| 13:10 | its just more complicated
| |
| 13:10 | too many checks
| |
| 13:10 | too many loops
| |
| 13:10 | <vagrantc> i think it's complicated to handle dupes
| |
| 13:11 | * vagrantc will write another patch | |
| 13:11 | <Gadi> I can fix ur problem with one or two lines on the current code
| |
| 13:12 | and it will only go through the group file once
| |
| 13:12 | <vagrantc> i think it's ugly to assume that all the server-side groups belong on the client
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| 13:12 | pmatulis has quit IRC | |
| 13:12 | pmatulis has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:13 | * Gadi goes to patch current code for vagrantc | |
| 13:13 | <Gadi> :)
| |
| 13:17 | <ltsppbot> "Gadi" pasted "Done" (30 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/167
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| 13:18 | pmatulis_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:19 | <ltsppbot> "Gadi" pasted "Typo" (30 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/168
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| 13:19 | <Gadi> :)
| |
| 13:20 | shall I commit it?
| |
| 13:20 | damn pastebot
| |
| 13:21 | <ltsppbot> "Gadi" pasted "Stupid pastebot" (30 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/169
| |
| 13:22 | "vagrantc" pasted "only add user to client groups that are present" (58 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/170
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| 13:24 | <Gadi> uh... you seem to be missing the part where you add groups
| |
| 13:24 | :)
| |
| 13:24 | <vagrantc> that's intentional
| |
| 13:25 | <Gadi> how is your user going to be a member of the "Domain Users" group?
| |
| 13:25 | <johnny> why overcomplicate this to save a few lines of text.. i don't think it is that big of a deal to use have what the server has..
| |
| 13:25 | <vagrantc> why bother adding them?
| |
| 13:25 | johnny: the result is my localapps don't have access to fuse
| |
| 13:25 | <Gadi> all of those files in his home directory that belong to his workgroup will not have proper ownership
| |
| 13:26 | johnny: thats not the goal here
| |
| 13:26 | <vagrantc> does sshfs use numeric gids?
| |
| 13:26 | <Gadi> vagrantc: its the same system as any *nix
| |
| 13:27 | but, you need to preserve non-system groups
| |
| 13:27 | <vagrantc> ah, right.
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| 13:27 | <Gadi> :)
| |
| 13:27 | thats why we bother getting the groups from the server to begin with
| |
| 13:27 | <vagrantc> so if you have gid discrepancies, there's no proper way to handle it
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| 13:28 | <Gadi> well, we should prefer local ids to server ids
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| 13:28 | I suppose we could simply edit /etc/nsswitch.conf
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| 13:28 | and just concat the two
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| 13:29 | but, that seems less clean
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| 13:29 | and prolly wont have the desired result
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| 13:29 | actually, yeah, that wont work
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| 13:29 | <vagrantc> Gadi: yeah, prefer local ids ... occasionally you'll have a file that seems to have the wrong gid...
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| 13:29 | <Gadi> the code I pasted should do the job
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| 13:29 | :)
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| 13:29 | <vagrantc> testing now
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| 13:29 | <Gadi> make sure you go the last paste
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| 13:29 | :)
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| 13:29 | I was fighting with pastebot
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| 13:31 | <vagrantc> Gadi: alas, it doesn't work.
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| 13:31 | <Gadi> what?
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| 13:31 | no way
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| 13:31 | impossible
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| 13:31 | dont believe it
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| 13:31 | howd you break it?
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| 13:31 | :)
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| 13:31 | <vagrantc> user is in 3 groups on the server, and 1 group on the thin client
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| 13:33 | <Gadi> ok, which groups?
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| 13:33 | <vagrantc> ah, gid on client same as user's default group.
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| 13:34 | <ogra> ouch
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| 13:35 | <vagrantc> i have, of course, been trying to test all the bizzare weirdnesses.
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| 13:35 | :)
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| 13:35 | i'll try and test the more common cases, and see how it handles.
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| 13:36 | bobby_C has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:36 | <vagrantc> pulse not on server, fuse 106 on server, pulse 106 on client, fuse 107 on client
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| 13:36 | sepski has quit IRC | |
| 13:36 | <vagrantc> handled that just fine.
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| 13:38 | <vagrantc> Gadi: go ahead and commit that, i'd say
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| 13:38 | <Gadi> cool
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| 13:39 | <vagrantc> but there are some hopefully unusual corner cases it doesn't handle.
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| 13:39 | <vagrantc> we do pretty much assume the user's default group has the same gid on the server and client
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| 13:40 | <Gadi> well, we also tend to assume that each user is in his/her own group
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| 13:40 | (for localdev stuff)
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| 13:40 | <vagrantc> right
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| 13:40 | <johnny> which is not true on opensuse..
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| 13:40 | <ogra> which is not true on al distros
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| 13:40 | <johnny> or gentoo for that matter
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| 13:40 | <vagrantc> we make lots of assumptions in general :)
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| 13:40 | <johnny> gentoo has no fuse group
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| 13:40 | neither does opensuse
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| 13:40 | <Gadi> you know what happens when you assume...
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| 13:41 | <ogra> you make fast progress :)
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| 13:42 | <Lns> maybe we should just fork from all distros and make an LTSP-OS =p
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| 13:42 | <johnny> lol
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| 13:44 | <vagrantc> Lns: LTSP 4.x ?
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| 13:45 | RobertLaptop has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:45 | <Lns> umm, well is that not affected by the gid prob?
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| 13:45 | <kc8pxy> cp /opt/ltsp/x86/boot/*x86-2.6.27-gentoo-r7 /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/x86/
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| 13:46 | now the hack is?
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| 13:46 | <johnny> i told you already
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| 13:47 | ?
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| 13:47 | the hack is fixing the initramfs to include the network modules
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| 13:48 | so you have to edit /usr/share/genkernel/x86/modules_load in the chroot
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| 13:48 | and add the modules you need to MODULES_NET
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| 13:48 | and you can go ahead and remove the other modules you don't need
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| 13:48 | to make it start up faster
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| 13:51 | <kc8pxy> and when i edit that file, that fixes it? or i need to run int through genkernel again?
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| 13:51 | and that's int eh chroot?
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| 13:54 | I'm sorry to come across as a dunce to this, but this is my first ltsp install, and i don't fully understand how and why all the peices work, on in the case of the gentoo package, ALMOST work, OOB.
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| 13:55 | i guess I'm spoiled tht most of the gnetoo ebuilds i use, either don't exist, or work 90%+ oob., with a few configurations needed sometimes.
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| 13:57 | <johnny> kc8pxy, read up
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| 13:57 | i told you that you had to run genkernel initrd
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| 13:57 | warren has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:57 | <johnny> ater editing that file
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| 13:57 | and yes i told you that it was in the chroot
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| 13:57 | <warren> pscheie: ping
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| 13:57 | <johnny> kc8pxy, is it too much to ask that you read up? :(
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| 13:58 | <warren> pscheie: we have to respin the k12linux f10 media for a new system-config-network and slight change in the quick start guide.
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| 13:58 | <rjune> warren, who was doing the local app whitelist stuff?
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| 13:58 | <pscheie> warren, pong
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| 13:59 | warren, what needs to change?
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| 13:59 | <warren> rjune: me mainly, what's up?
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| 13:59 | pscheie: Verify that "Controlled by NetworkManager" is unchecked. Then click the OK button.
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| 13:59 | <rjune> somebode was asking about it the other day, I knew you were doing it, but I thought somebody else was helping a bit
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| 14:00 | <warren> pscheie: Uncheck "Controlled by NetworkManager", then click the OK button.
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| 14:00 | <pscheie> warren, ok
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| 14:00 | <warren> pscheie: the new version pushed January 7th is default to checked, the combination of that new version plus this doc change eliminates a failure case.
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| 14:01 | pscheie: actually, I'll handle updating hte package, I wanted to import it into a bzr tree anyway.
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| 14:01 | pscheie: I need to get this done in a few hours to get the spin ready for release before tomorrow's FUDCon talk
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| 14:02 | <pscheie> ok, so do I just need to fix it upstream?
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| 14:04 | spectra has quit IRC | |
| 14:04 | <kc8pxy> johnny: only half of what you have said to me is lit up, (through named higlighting) and sorting through the unhillighted stuff, i'm not always sure i got it all.
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| 14:05 | <johnny> so.. what do you need to know now?
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| 14:05 | spectra has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:07 | <warren> pscheie: well yes, but I'm going to create an "upstream" bzr repo for this right now.
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| 14:07 | <pscheie> warren, oh, ok
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| 14:07 | so...what, if anything, do you want me to do over the next 24 hours?
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| 14:08 | Gadi has left #ltsp | |
| 14:08 | <kc8pxy> i copied the pxe.0 file, and the kernel. i need to edit the modules_load and genkernel initrd , then copy the new initrd. is dhcp config the last step??
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| 14:08 | <johnny> kc8pxy, pretty sure yes
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| 14:09 | <warren> pscheie: only test the next image I push
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| 14:09 | which could be in an hour or two
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| 14:11 | pscheie: what is your fedora account name again?
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| 14:12 | <kc8pxy> johnny: sorry to bug.. i simply need thigns to work, and this is the most trouble i've had getting a layman program to work.
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| 14:12 | <pscheie> warren, peterscheie
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| 14:13 | <warren> pscheie: adding you to a bzr group so you have access to changing stuff here.
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| 14:13 | there
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| 14:13 | <johnny> kc8pxy, you're using the wrong program then.. ltsp is complicated
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| 14:13 | alekibango has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:13 | <johnny> and due to bugs in the required programs.. life is more difficult still
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| 14:13 | <warren> pscheie: oh, you're already there.
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| 14:14 | <johnny> kc8pxy, you haven't really had all that many problems so far anyways :)
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| 14:14 | the genkernel initrd thing is the most annoying thing to deal with in the whole setup
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| 14:15 | i'd like to convice them to start afresh with the initramfs and use something else instead
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| 14:15 | <pscheie> warren, how'd that happen?
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| 14:15 | <warren> pscheie: btw, did you modify the .ks files for f9 livecd any?"
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| 14:15 | pscheie: I must have added you earlier.
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| 14:15 | <johnny> like initramfs-tools or whatever that new tool that was proposed by the fedora developer
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| 14:15 | <pscheie> warren, I don't think I modified them
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| 14:16 | * pscheie scratches head because he's been twiddling with kickstart files at work all week | |
| 14:16 | <pscheie> (not ltsp-related .ks files)
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| 14:16 | <warren> nod
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| 14:17 | pscheie: ok, I'm removing the livecd kickstart files from ltsp-server and making a bzr repo dedicated to it.
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| 14:17 | <pscheie> warren, what's the advantage of a bzr repo over cvs?
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| 14:17 | <johnny> lol
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| 14:17 | cvs is terrible..
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| 14:17 | <warren> yeah, what johnny said.
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| 14:18 | <johnny> i wonder when fedora will switch from cvs.. do you know anything about that warren?
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| 14:18 | <warren> pscheie: we already use bzr for everything else ltsp related, so might as well use all the same tool
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| 14:18 | <pscheie> you'll have to do better than that
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| 14:18 | <warren> johnny: fedora will not switch away from cvs only to have a better tool, there will be a complete redesign of how sources are handled
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| 14:18 | <pscheie> warren, there is that, of course, but how does the work with fedora which is still cvs based?
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| 14:19 | <warren> johnny: it will have to take into account quilt-like functionality, making it easy to keep patches isolated from each other and promote pushing patches back upstream.
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| 14:19 | <johnny> warren, perhaps in a similiar fashion to what ubuntu will do with bzr?
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| 14:19 | <evilx> question let say you have your xsession as default with no .xsession where would it read the config files for xfce?
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| 14:19 | <johnny> being that they will likely get there first..
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| 14:19 | <pscheie> johnny, why is cvs 'terrible'? What's terrible about it?
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| 14:19 | <warren> pscheie: you use (whatever tool) to generate the tarball which you upload into fedora /cvs/pkgs
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| 14:19 | pscheie: it is just a way to track and generate the tarball that you currently build manually
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| 14:19 | <johnny> pscheie, it doesn't track renames very well, poor binary support, requires a centralized server
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| 14:20 | .cvs directories in every directory
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| 14:20 | <warren> johnny: will do? there are plans?
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| 14:20 | <johnny> can't have local history
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| 14:20 | <warren> johnny: Ubuntu's status quo is "if everyone only used us as upstream, we wont have a problem of pushing things to upstream"
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| 14:21 | <johnny> warren, not really...
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| 14:21 | warren, they are switching away from src debs.. or so ogra says
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| 14:21 | and putting it all in bzr
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| 14:21 | <ogra> already happened
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| 14:21 | <johnny> there we go
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| 14:21 | <ogra> http://package-import.ubuntu.com/
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| 14:21 | <johnny> warren, until you clean your own house, stop yelling at ubuntu
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| 14:22 | <warren> ogra: why is it called package-impot?
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| 14:22 | <johnny> you are not on the high horse yet
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| 14:22 | <warren> johnny: what are you talking about specifically? (is this about davidz?)
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| 14:22 | <ogra> warren, because it imports from debian atm
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| 14:22 | <johnny> sure, among others
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| 14:22 | warren, it's not about davidz, but a culture that lets him continue doing what he is doing
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| 14:22 | <pscheie> ogra, where in Deutschland are you?
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| 14:23 | <warren> johnny: who are the others? Could you please document these cases where we're sucking? Our leadership takes this criticism seriously, but people have to calmly write it down.
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| 14:23 | <ogra> warren, at some point there will be parallel upstream branches and you can just merge back and forth
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| 14:23 | <evilx> this is driving me nuts, I cant figure out where xfce pulls it data from for default, so i dont need to set this xsession for every user on the ltsp
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| 14:23 | <johnny> warren, you're the one who told me that others in that dept were bad, you didn't name names :)
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| 14:23 | <warren> johnny: ok, could you please write down the entire story?
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| 14:23 | <ogra> pscheie, in the middle ... city is called Kassel
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| 14:23 | <johnny> so i can't name them back to you :)
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| 14:23 | <warren> johnny: I'm now in a position to effect change...
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| 14:23 | <johnny> oh really..
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| 14:23 | <warren> but I don't know the full story
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| 14:23 | <johnny> ok.. i'll see what i can do :)
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| 14:23 | <warren> If this bad behavior continues today, especially, then it needs to be documented.
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| 14:23 | <pscheie> ogra, my family wants to go to Germany this summer; I may stop by & say hello
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| 14:24 | <ogra> feel free, but tell me in advance :)
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| 14:24 | <pscheie> ogra, I just did ;-)
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| 14:24 | <ogra> where do you plan to go ? north or south ?
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| 14:24 | * ogra would suggest seeing berlin | |
| 14:24 | <pscheie> coming from Denmark, heading to the south & Austria
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| 14:25 | <johnny> warren, on it :)
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| 14:25 | <ogra> ah well, then you visit bavaria, not germany :)
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| 14:25 | <pscheie> but we'll probably fly out of Frankfurt
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| 14:26 | <warren> johnny: it helps if the language sticks to the facts, and rather than sound accusatory, talk about how it is problematic for others to use, provide feedback and contribute back.
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| 14:26 | <ogra> well, thats about 200km from here
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| 14:26 | <johnny> warren, yes.. i understand
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| 14:26 | <pscheie> which way?
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| 14:26 | <warren> (aren't there two frankfurts?)
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| 14:26 | <ogra> yep
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| 14:26 | but only one with an airport :)
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| 14:26 | <warren> heh
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| 14:26 | <pscheie> ah, just found Kassel on the map
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| 14:26 | <ogra> the other is half polish
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| 14:46 | <rjune> ogra, howdy
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| 14:46 | <ogra> he rjune
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| 14:47 | *hey even
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| 14:48 | <rjune> I'm starting to think I won't be hearing back from Rick.
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| 14:49 | though I do need to get my package built for ubuntu
| |
| 14:49 | so that'll be happy, and a good start to learning debs.
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| 15:46 | <sbalneav> 3
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| 15:48 | <zerocool> Gadi, u there?
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| 15:49 | <vagrantc> zerocool: doesn't appear to be.
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| 15:50 | <zerocool> so it looks. i'll check back later.
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| 16:02 | <evilx> hmm i switched to xfce and firefox is still slow on being responsibe
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| 16:02 | responsive
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| 16:03 | ive tried that other browse epiphany but it doesnt seems to like support all of ajax
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| 16:05 | <johnny> evilx, not too many extensions ?
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| 16:05 | or do you have compiz or anything like that?
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| 16:06 | <evilx> no compwiz or extensions
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| 16:17 | <Lns> evilx: what is exactly being unresponsive? can you give more detail?
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| 16:18 | <warren> vagrantc: sbalneav: how do people feel about the current *-trunk?
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| 16:19 | hmm
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| 16:19 | nevermind, I'll wait
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| 16:19 | the version i'm using seems good
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| 16:19 | <vagrantc> warren: i was considering tagging ltsp-trunk today...
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| 16:19 | <warren> spinning perhaps the final release ISO's now
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| 16:20 | <vagrantc> i'll probably just make a debian-specific patch to handle non-writeable /etc
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| 16:22 | <warren> I wont be consuming upstream again until post-release
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| 16:27 | Guest6803 is now known as johnny | |
| 16:28 | * warren spinning new images | |
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| 16:38 | <evilx> Lns, like when a combo box is selected it takes like 10-15s to show up
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| 16:38 | combo or dropdown box whatever you wish to calli t
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| 16:38 | <Lns> evilx: java?
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| 16:38 | <evilx> no
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| 16:39 | it html
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| 16:39 | <Lns> hrm
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| 16:39 | never heard of that outside of a java applet
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| 16:41 | <evilx> looks like I have more stuff to kill from running, Thunar,gam_server,update notifier,gnome power manager,trackerd, gnome=-screen-server
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| 16:44 | bobby_C has quit IRC | |
| 16:45 | <johnny> trackerd is the only thing that might hurt you
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| 16:45 | killing gam_server is bad
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| 16:45 | that means you won't see updates of files
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| 16:45 | until you refresh the view
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| 16:45 | like.. if you had a file browser window open
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| 16:45 | and then you saved a file into it.. you would not know
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| 16:46 | <evilx> basically all I need these thin clients to run is thunderbird,firefox,abiword,openoffice
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| 16:46 | <johnny> until you manually refreshed it
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| 16:46 | that is not the case
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| 16:46 | those applications like having things like gam_server
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| 16:46 | <evilx> hm ok
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| 16:46 | <johnny> you should not kill what you dont understand
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| 16:46 | find out what something does first
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| 16:46 | your problems are probably elsewhere
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| 16:46 | <evilx> true
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| 16:47 | <johnny> like with your video drivers
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| 16:47 | <evilx> it seems x has changed since last time i have used it
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| 16:47 | <johnny> or poor network
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| 16:47 | <evilx> wel thunar isnt important
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| 16:47 | <johnny> i bet it respawns..
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| 16:47 | and you will not be able to stop it
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| 16:48 | <evilx> probably
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| 19:01 | <warren> pscheie: http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/ltsp/k12linux/f10/rc2/ Respun K12Linux F10 images. I really need help testing this quick. Gotta release before FUDCon tomorrow.
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| 20:55 | <warren> pscheie: let's not mention LiveDVD at all anymore
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| 20:55 | <warren> pscheie: modern machines capable of running a livecd can all USB boot
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| 20:55 | pscheie: and USB is a better idea for almost everyone
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| 20:55 | pscheie: simpler docs this way.
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| 21:42 | <vagrantc> planning on tagging ltsp-trunk shortly...
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| 21:43 | <stgraber> ok, may be interested to have this one too, just let me have a look at the changes
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| 21:43 | <vagrantc> stgraber: hopefully my switch to using id instead of groups won't break your pam_groups workaround
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| 21:44 | <stgraber> I hope so, let me have a look
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| 21:45 | vagrantc: both seems to behave the same way
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| 21:45 | <vagrantc> good good!
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| 21:46 | <stgraber> Did gadi make sure that it doesn't break Windows group names too ?
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| 21:46 | (things like Domain Admins)
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| 21:46 | <vagrantc> don't know, but i didn't change the part of the code that supports that much at all
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| 21:49 | <stgraber> ok, other than that Windows thing (I spend all Monday morning debuging that with Gadi), everything looks good so just go tagging.
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| 22:03 | <vagrantc> stgraber: one of these days, i'd like to simplif debian/rules a bit by switching to debhelper 7 ... another item on the TODO list for syncing...
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| 22:05 | * Ryan52 <3 dh7 :) | |
| 22:14 | <rjune_> stgraber: you're a debian guy, right?
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| 22:16 | <johnny> ubuntu..
| |
| 22:17 | he's our goto guy with ogra bein so busy
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| 22:17 | <rjune_> heh
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| 22:17 | I thought ogra was beating on arm stuff mostly
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| 22:21 | <johnny> yes.. being busy :)
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| 22:29 | <vagrantc> there's always one more thing with an upload... *sigh*
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| 22:41 | <stgraber> vagrantc: sounds good, I like the idea of simplifying debian/rules
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| 22:41 | * vagrantc puts off debhelper 7 for another day | |
| 22:41 | <stgraber> rjune_: yeah, I'm doing the LTSP work in Ubuntu now, I'm still waiting to get main upload rights though so my uploads are sponsored by ogra or other core devs
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| 22:42 | <rjune_> stgraber: I just wanted to confirm some DHCP things in debian
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| 22:42 | config file is /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf, initscript is /etc/dhcp3/dhcp-server
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| 22:43 | <vagrantc> init script is /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server
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| 22:43 | <stgraber> vagrantc: btw, what package is ltsp-localapps in in Debian ? I had some issue with application server not having ltsp-server (only ldminfod installed) and was wonderding if you've put it in ldminfod instead of ltsp-server in Debian
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| 22:44 | *wondering
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| 22:44 | <vagrantc> stgraber: i haven't split out ldminfod from ltsp-server yet. will do post-lenny
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| 22:45 | i don't want experimental to get stuck in new
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| 22:46 | <stgraber> hmmm, ok. How did you do that ? as ldminfod was moved from ltsp-trunk to ldm-trunk ? (so changing to the other source package)
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| 22:46 | <vagrantc> it's ironic. i've been begging to split out ldminfod for ages, and now that others have done it, the timing isn't right for me :)
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| 22:46 | stgraber: copy of ldminfod in debian/ dir
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| 22:46 | <stgraber> ok
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| 22:47 | <vagrantc> stgraber: i'd rather name the package ldm-server, so it makes sense to have other ldm server related dependencies and such, though.
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| 22:47 | and other scripts and such, if they come along
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| 22:48 | <stgraber> right and it looks better than my ugly ldminfod binary package :) I'll just sync that change when you do it
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| 22:49 | (and do the paperwork to get a package out and another through the NEW queue :))
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| 22:49 | * stgraber should check if we have a paperwork-less way of renaming packages | |
| 22:54 | * vagrantc can't imagine ubuntu using actual *paper* :) | |
| 22:54 | <vagrantc> paperless paperwork?
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| 22:54 | try2free has left #ltsp | |
| 22:56 | <stgraber> yeah, it's called wikipages and bug reports :)
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| 22:58 | <vagrantc> tagged 5.1.47, uploading 5.1.47-1 to debian experimental
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| 23:00 | taking forever to push ltsp-trunk
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| 23:03 | stgraber: tarball should be at http://incoming.debian.org/ for the next 2-3 hours ... and then hit debian experimental
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| 23:09 | <stgraber> vagrantc: ok, will download it.
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| 23:09 | <vagrantc> maybe sunday i'll tag and upload ldm
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| 23:12 | <Ryan52> vagrantc, might be better to tag it sooner...I'm gonna try to do #509877 this weekend, which includes pretty invasive changes to gtkgreet.
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| 23:14 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: debian bts?
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| 23:14 | * Ryan52 nods | |
| 23:15 | <Ryan52> kinda scary changes, actually...
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| 23:15 | <vagrantc> ah, yes. "faces" support
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| 23:16 | well, my last test packages worked fine, so i guess i'll just tag ldm then
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| 23:16 | <Ryan52> what else was on my ltsp todo list? somethin screwy with password expiry that I was gonna look at, Gadi asked for a bunch of ldm-dialog stuff, anything else?
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| 23:17 | <vagrantc> ok, it shouldn't be too hard. i'll just do another ldm upload tonight, too. :)
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| 23:19 | <Ryan52> why can't you tag tonight and upload whenever you feel like? 0.o
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| 23:19 | <vagrantc> because i think i can pull it off before the next incoming processing :)
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| 23:20 | <Ryan52> heh
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| 23:46 | <vagrantc> tagged and pushing ldm 2.0.28 ...
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| 23:53 | and uploading ldm 2.0.28-1 to debian experimental...
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| 23:54 | Ryan52: might be good to work on debian #509877 in a separate branch and merge it when it's working reasonably well, in any case
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| 23:55 | <Ryan52> what do you mean by separate branch?
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| 23:56 | it already is (on my local branch) ;)
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