IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 10 February 2015 (all times are UTC)
| 00:10 | <doctari> ubuntu 14.04 seems to be broken in several areas at this point
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| 02:34 | <Kermit_> anyone care to help with a web proxy related problem when running ltsp-build-client on RHEL6 (using a satellite server)?
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| 11:18 | <Guest6024> hi. what happens, if i create a edubuntu 14.04 ltsp server with Radeon Card and some clients need nvidia-173 for example. is it enought to install the secon driver (nvidia) too and do the settings in ltsp.conf? i have no idea, how the technologie work.
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| 12:25 | <Cristian-> good morning ppl
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| 12:26 | I want to know if its possible to use client's ip address on firefox... so I can identify the clients on proxy's logs.
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| 12:56 | <jumapico> Hi all
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| 12:56 | championofcyrodi, where i can get the ltsp docker image described in your post http://championofcyrodiil.blogspot.com/2014/08/ubuntu-1404-ltsp-docker-container.html
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| 13:02 | <Cedric_> any ltsp fans out here?
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| 13:24 | <championofcyrodi> jumapico: let me see if I can find it...
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| 13:24 | <jumapico> Thanks!
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| 13:25 | ltsp works fine under docker or has (big) issues?
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| 13:25 | <championofcyrodi> i had none
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| 13:25 | just ensure the /opt and /home folders are shared volumes with the host.
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| 13:25 | <jumapico> great!
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| 13:25 | <championofcyrodi> on my host it something like /data/ltsp-home and /data/ltsp-opt
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| 13:26 | otherwise the container will grow to an unwieldy size.
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| 13:26 | <jumapico> due performance or for don't lost data? (y can create a docker image for store data and works fine?)
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| 13:26 | ok
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| 13:27 | <championofcyrodi> likely you can. Ubuntu/Centos will use the devicemapper plugin, which will limit growth to a predefined pool of 100GB
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| 13:28 | <championofcyrodi> which makes the limit ~10G per container. if you install the linux-image-extra-$(uname -r) package, you'll get aufs support, and docker will use that by default.
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| 13:28 | I used host volume mounts as personal preference really.
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| 13:28 | so this is my docker install script: http://championofcyrodiil.blogspot.com/2014/09/just-install-docker-on-ubuntu-1404-64.html
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| 13:28 | <jumapico> i'm want user devicemapper
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| 13:29 | <championofcyrodi> and it looks like the dockerfile is on the post...
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| 13:29 | it's only th 6 lines.
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| 13:30 | it's the docker run command further down that carries the host specific info about forwarding port 2222 to 22 for ssh, etc...
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| 13:30 | <jumapico> yes, but what are the customizations for champion:ubuntu-base ?
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| 13:30 | <championofcyrodi> also the bottom points how where you use /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/... to set the custom sshfs port for home folders.
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| 13:30 | nothing
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| 13:31 | it's just ubuntu:14.04 image
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| 13:31 | <jumapico> ok
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| 13:31 | <championofcyrodi> oh... if you look above...
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| 13:31 | <jumapico> yes, i read your post :)
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| 13:31 | <championofcyrodi> i did a custom install of ubuntu 14.04 server edition on a VM, then exported the filesystem as a tarball, then used docker import
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| 13:32 | but likely that was a waste of time. it'll probably work fine with the ubuntu:14.04 from dockerhub
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| 13:32 | no wait... it looks like i had issues w/ the dockerhub version due to sshfs
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| 13:33 | something security related that wasnt default
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| 13:33 | <jumapico> I want try use smb instead of sshfs
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| 13:34 | <championofcyrodi> then you may have good luck with the dockerhub version.
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| 13:34 | <jumapico> (login generated home with smb mounted directories with user data)
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| 13:34 | Ok. Then i try it. Thanks championofcyrodi!
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| 13:35 | <championofcyrodi> you're welcome. let me know how it goes.
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| 13:35 | <jumapico> I count with you if i found problems ;)
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| 13:37 | <ogra_> championofcyrodi, so whats next ? a snappy package ? :)
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| 13:42 | <championofcyrodi> snappy?
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| 13:42 | * championofcyrodi googles it, cuz forgot if someone told me what it was. | |
| 13:42 | <championofcyrodi> [de]compression package from google?
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| 13:43 | <ogra_> nope
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| 13:43 | <championofcyrodi> hrm... well this is also interesting to me https://code.google.com/p/snappy/
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| 13:43 | <ogra_> the futuie of ubuntu ;)
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| 13:43 | *future
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| 13:44 | <championofcyrodi> at core i7 speeds, it would help w/ network bandwidth issues...
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| 13:44 | oh yea!
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| 13:44 | <ogra_> transitional updates with automated rollbacks
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| 13:44 | <championofcyrodi> the new package management isolated (lxc) stuff
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| 13:44 | <ogra_> well, lxc is only one part
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| 13:44 | <championofcyrodi> i know..
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| 13:44 | but it's probably the closest part to cgroups
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| 13:44 | <ogra_> (works fine without any lxc involved)
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| 13:45 | <championofcyrodi> really?
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| 13:45 | <ogra_> yep
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| 13:45 | there is #snappy btw :)
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| 13:45 | <championofcyrodi> what are they using to separate conflicting dependencies?
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| 13:45 | <ogra_> snap packages ;)
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| 13:45 | they run in their own space but that doesnt neccesarily need to be a container
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| 13:46 | <championofcyrodi> are there other technologies for that besides solaris zones, lxc or virtualization?
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| 13:46 | <ogra_> simply shielded filesystem spaces through apparmor
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| 13:47 | <championofcyrodi> hmmm
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| 13:47 | <ogra_> indeed you can use docker ot lxc ... but you dont have to :)
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| 13:47 | *or
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| 13:48 | <championofcyrodi> Gotcha. I worked with Solaris zones a while ago, so when lxc blew up via docker, it felt very natural to me.
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| 13:49 | <ogra_> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/ btw
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| 13:49 | <championofcyrodi> ahhh a dual filesystem to support roll backs.. https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/guides/filesystem-layout/
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| 13:49 | <ogra_> right
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| 13:50 | <championofcyrodi> i love it when something so simple is awesome.
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| 13:50 | <ogra_> packages operate similar ...
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| 13:50 | so you could: snappy install ltsp
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| 13:50 | then snappy upgrade ltsp ...
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| 13:50 | <championofcyrodi> right...
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| 13:50 | <ogra_> then find your your $excotic_hw has issues and run snappy rollback ltsp
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| 13:50 | and have it back to the former state in munites
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| 13:51 | <championofcyrodi> i have to think about this for a bit, lol
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| 13:51 | <ogra_> so your clients will keep working and you have time to inspect
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| 13:51 | well, as i said -> #snappy
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| 13:51 | * ogra_ doesnt want to spam the #ltsp channel to much | |
| 13:51 | <ogra_> (only if you are interested indeed)
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| 14:00 | <Hyperbyte> This channel could use some good spamming though. =D
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| 14:01 | <ogra_> haha
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| 14:09 | <championofcyrodi> i think that with something like fuse+hdfs w/ HA Proxy, you could have more than 1 server host the root file system. so that if a server died, none of your clients would notice.
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| 14:09 | but then local caching...
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| 14:09 | has to be considered.
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| 14:11 | <ogra_> well, stgraber did a lot of that base work on ltsp-cluster ...
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| 14:11 | sadly i think that died over time ... not sure though
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| 14:17 | <championofcyrodi> i see how it could be unwieldy for a simple deployment.
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| 14:20 | but ldap+kerberos+distributed filesystem makes it more like an enterprise solution. and could be embraced by a lot businesses if marketed well.
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| 14:20 | hmmm ... https://www.ltsp-cluster.org/
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| 14:22 | is it just my dns? or is the image here: https://www.ltsp-cluster.org/documentation/technical-introduction broken?
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| 14:23 | <ogra_> looks fine in mine
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| 14:23 | (browser that is)
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| 14:24 | <championofcyrodi> https://www.ltsp-cluster.org/sites/default/files/ltsp-cluster-infrastructure.png gives me 403 Forbidden
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| 14:24 | <ogra_> oh, yeah
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| 14:24 | i thought you meant the logos etc
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| 14:38 | <vmlintu> jumapico: for us using samba for home dir mounts wasn't that stable (ltsp-server mounting homedirs from remote server with kerberos)
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| 14:39 | jumapico: This was with ubuntu 14.04 - with 12.10 it might have been a bit more stable, but cannot really be sure..
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| 14:43 | championofcyrodi: have you used distributed filesystems for home directories?
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| 14:44 | <championofcyrodi> not for a desktop/processing. Usually it is too slow.
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| 14:45 | but i think it is much better in more recent versions.
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| 14:47 | actually that isnt entirely true
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| 14:48 | that was w/ HDFS. Using Ceph now and getting ~80 MB/sec. on 1Gbps ether
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| 14:48 | <jumapico> vmlintu: currently when a user first login in a pc the account is checked agains ldap. If the home directory not exists, one is created based in /etc/skel-custom. In post login, samba directories (private and common) to the created home. I think that i can create in login and destroy in logout the home users dir
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| 14:48 | <championofcyrodi> our VMs are backed via ceph, and some of them actually run an X session with qxl driver.
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| 14:49 | so using a distributed filesystem like ceph should be plenty fast for home directories.
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| 14:50 | <vmlintu> championofcyrodi: what kind of user authentication ceph has?
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| 14:52 | <championofcyrodi> i think it also has a fuse connector, so whatever your client POSIX supports... i'm not entirely sure because it's all 'root' on the cluster side, and authentication is abstracted through the VMs. let me do some quick reading.
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| 14:54 | https://ceph.com/docs/v0.79/rados/operations/auth-intro/ - looks like there is a ceph block device client
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| 14:54 | which i believe would behave similar to something like nbd?
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| 14:56 | <vmlintu> jumapico: yes, you can call pam_mkhomedir from samba's pam stack to create the home dirs.. not sure about removing them on logout
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| 14:57 | championofcyrodi: so there would be a distributed and replicated block device that holds the filesystem that multiple file servers export?
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| 14:57 | <championofcyrodi> yes
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| 14:58 | thus, you would likely want the folders to be read-only if shared amongst users... home folders may be okay due to the inherent multi-tenant design of the /home folder.
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| 14:59 | e.g. only I and writing to /home/champion and only you are writing to /home/vmlintu
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| 15:00 | 's/I and writing/I am writing/g'
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| 15:03 | * championofcyrodi needs to reboot | |
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| 16:11 | <Jay_> ehlo
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| 16:11 | anyone alive down here? :)
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| 16:16 | I'm not sure my ltsp is setup properly. Has been running for a while now but I'm trying to get to the bottom of some performance issues and I notice some things from the docs are not consistent with what I see here. For instance getltscfg is something I can't find
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| 16:17 | Also, if I do lspci on a client, should I see the client's video card or the server's ?
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| 16:24 | <jay_> hey
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| 16:53 | <work_alkisg> Hi
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| 16:53 | !localxterm
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| 16:53 | <ltsp`> localxterm: Any applications that you launch on a thin client actually runs on the server, not on the client itself. If you want to open a program on the client locally, you can type 'ltsp-localapps <program>' in a run dialog or in a terminal. For example, 'ltsp-localapps xterm' to open a terminal running on the client.
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| 16:53 | <alkisg> Do that ^
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| 16:56 | <jay_> did
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| 16:56 | <alkisg> What does lspci say there?
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| 16:56 | <jay_> the client's vga adapter
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| 16:56 | <alkisg> Right, the first was running on the server, the second on the client
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| 16:57 | <jay_> now, when I open a terminal on a client, the prompt is the server's prompt, not the client (the one from ltsp-localapps xterm)
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| 16:57 | <alkisg> Yes, that's what LTSP is about
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| 16:58 | Processes by default run on the server
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| 16:59 | <jay_> so is the client using its own video card or the server's ?
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| 16:59 | after quite a while of very painfully running the network (with somewhat frustrated clients) I'm wondering if the clients shouldn't actually be in chroot
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| 17:00 | <alkisg> What are your client specs? Cpu, Ram?
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| 17:00 | <jay_> sec, booting one now
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| 17:01 | <alkisg> jay_: just run `free` and `less /proc/cpuinfo` on that localxterm
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| 17:02 | <jay_> yeah, it shows 2 core Celeron 2.6Ghz, 4G ram
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| 17:02 | and an Intel video card
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| 17:03 | <alkisg> So your clients are good enough to run as fat
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| 17:03 | !fatclients
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| 17:03 | <ltsp`> fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 17:03 | <alkisg> !ltsp-pnp
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| 17:03 | <ltsp`> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 17:03 | <alkisg> Read those wiki pages
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| 17:05 | <jay_> ok, but just for my peace of mind (and so I understand things a bit better). When a client boots, logs on in ldm, gets a window manager. Should the client see itself chrooted ? Because when I open a terminal on a client I see the server's filesystem, not the chroot
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| 17:05 | and second, how can I check if I'm properly using the client computer's video card ?
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| 17:06 | <alkisg> The client should see the server's file system
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| 17:06 | Imagine it like remote desktop. The client boots from some file system (the chroot), then does remote desktop to the server
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| 17:07 | So it's about the same like if you connected to the server with remote desktop from some windows pc, it no longer matters that the client was booted with linux
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| 17:08 | <jay_> so the only bit related to chroot is the image booted and used to do remote desktop ?
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| 17:08 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 17:08 | That is not true for fat clients though
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| 17:08 | For ltsp fat clients, all the applications are in the chroot
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| 17:08 | <jay_> pretty much what I previously understood. Just wanted to double-check
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| 17:08 | <alkisg> (still netbooted)
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| 17:09 | <jay_> think I'll get a performance boost. The operations are quite decent. Rendering browsers on the other hand is really really horrible ;(
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| 17:09 | <alkisg> !flash
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| 17:09 | <ltsp`> flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
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| 17:09 | <jay_> no flash mate
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| 17:09 | <alkisg> It's just an example
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| 17:10 | It's impossible to get 2.5 gbps to watch hd
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| 17:10 | <jay_> simply opening tabs in chrome or firefox is insanely laggy
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| 17:10 | <alkisg> Scrolling a firefox window is like an HD movie
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| 17:10 | It's still 30 fps
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| 17:10 | So you still need a lot of Gbps per client
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| 17:10 | <jay_> only have 1Gbps
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| 17:10 | <alkisg> That's why thin clients will always lag a bit
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| 17:11 | Depending on the app
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| 17:11 | People then run localapps or fat clients
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| 17:11 | Try ltsp-pnp...
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| 17:11 | <jay_> so switching to fat client should boost performance
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| 17:11 | <alkisg> It would be like running linux locally
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| 17:12 | Your clients would run linux fine if they had a local disk, so they will run fine with ltsp fat clients too
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| 17:12 | <jay_> the server is quite powerful btw. And I only have a handful of clients
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| 17:13 | <alkisg> If you'll be doing math apps, then use it, if you're going to be browing, don't
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| 17:13 | *browsing
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| 17:13 | (sorry multitasking too much)
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| 17:13 | <jay_> I'm sorry, don't "which one ?". I'm doing mostly browsing and office
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| 17:14 | <alkisg> I mean, don't use thin clients, that would in turn use a lot of your server's cpu
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| 17:14 | Use fat clients, which will use their own cpu
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| 17:14 | Because the limiting factor, the network, will make performance suck, no matter how powerful your server is
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| 17:16 | <jay_> ok, thanks a lot
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| 17:17 | <alkisg> You're welcome
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| 17:30 | <gvy> folks have been bonding like 6x GigE happily back in dualcore opteron days OTOH
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| 17:30 | though hd is evil in that regard indeed
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| 17:36 | <alkisg> If one also bonds 3 NICs for each client, sure :)
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| 17:36 | With 4k displays it'll still be a problem though :D
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| 17:37 | 3840×2160×30×32 = 8 gbps per client...
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| 17:38 | And I think the target for e.g. firefox scrolling will be 60 fps, so 16 gbps per client
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| 17:38 | Uncompressed Xorg on the network doesn't sound feasible with those conditions
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| 19:48 | <JuJuBee> I need help getting my students to be able to add a printer. They opened system settings -> printers and were able to find and add the printer in my room, but it does not show up in the list of printers in any application to print to.
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| 19:54 | <alkisg_web> Libreoffice?
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| 20:00 | Ooops, "any"... ok, libreoffice does have a bug there but it wouldn't be "any app"...
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| 20:10 | <championofcyrodi> jay_/alkisg: I've seen traditional X forwarding work a lot better with compression enabled. is that the default? (ssh -XC)
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| 20:10 | (for ltsp thin clients)
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| 20:10 | <alkisg_web> championofcyrodi: no, it wouldn't work well for video etc
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| 20:11 | Compressing GB of data real time would kill the server cpu
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| 20:11 | It's good for a single remote client though, but not for many local clients
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| 20:11 | <championofcyrodi> how does NX do it?
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| 20:12 | <alkisg_web> NX works much worse than plain X under LAN
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| 20:12 | You can't watch a video without dropped frames
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| 20:12 | <championofcyrodi> interesting. I don't see that happening at all.
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| 20:12 | <alkisg_web> NX is much, much better than plain X over WAN though
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| 20:12 | <championofcyrodi> but my clients are Core i3s
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| 20:12 | on LAN, X was lagging w/ youtube... NX wasnt.
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| 20:12 | on our LAN*
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| 20:13 | <alkisg_web> Youtube doesn't use xvideo
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| 20:13 | So that way it needs more bandwidth than your lan can offer
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| 20:13 | <championofcyrodi> well that would be chrome then?
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| 20:13 | <alkisg_web> In that case, then sure compression would help for a single client, and it would kill the server cpu
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| 20:14 | VLC can use xvideo, and most other video players
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| 20:14 | <championofcyrodi> okay i got you. my clients are using NX to separate servers, so that's why the ltsp server isn't choking on it.
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| 20:14 | (and they are fat clients)
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| 20:15 | <alkisg_web> NX also reduces round-trips. That would help a lot in LTSP if we could get it without the compression part
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| 20:16 | * alkisg_web is checking two bugs related to TIMESERVER, that somehow make the end result work :-/ | |
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| 21:15 | <Mikhail> Hello. I've set up a FAT client environment with 10 stations and a ltsp server. I would like to establish a VPN tunnel from each of the FAT clients. My understanding is the fat clients "dont rely" on server's connection for their internet access. I failed at my first attempt. I guess my question is: Is it even possible to establish a VPN tunnel from each of the fat clients at the same time?
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