IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 14 July 2011 (all times are UTC)
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| 08:35 | <rickogden> morning all
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| 08:37 | when I try to log in to a fat client, it restarts the gdm and has "nbd9: unknown partition table" in /var/log/messages, does anyone have any idea what the problem is?
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| 08:43 | <alkisg> rickogden: the problem is that you're using gdm instead of ldm :)
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| 08:45 | <rickogden> sorry, I meant ldm
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| 08:45 | "the graphical login screen bit"
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| 08:45 | <alkisg> Ignore the nbd9 warning, it's not relevant
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| 08:45 | Do you get an entry in the server /var/log/auth.log for the client trying to login?
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| 08:46 | <rickogden> alkisg: yes I do
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| 08:46 | <alkisg> OK, then it might be that X is crashing. What graphics card on the client, and what on the server?
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| 08:47 | <rickogden> alkisg: it's an onboard intel card
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| 08:47 | this was working perfectly until I installed netbeans
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| 08:47 | (on the fat client)
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| 08:47 | <alkisg> Hmm, that shouldn't matter, I believe something else caused the problem
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| 08:48 | distro/version?
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| 08:48 | <rickogden> Ubuntu 10.04 64 bit
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| 08:48 | <alkisg> With a 32bit chroot?
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| 08:48 | <rickogden> with i386 fat client
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| 08:48 | yep
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| 08:48 | just out of interest, is the 64 bit chroot stable?
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| 08:49 | <alkisg> I think in general canonical, mozilla, adobe etc etc suggest using 32 bit anywhere
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| 08:49 | <rickogden> ah ok
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| 08:49 | <alkisg> So personally I'm using 32bits even on servers, with pae so that they see all the ram
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| 08:49 | OK... for starters, get a local shell on the client:
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| 08:49 | !SCREEN_02
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| 08:49 | <ltsp> alkisg: SCREEN_02: to get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using%20a%20shell%20SCREEN.
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| 08:49 | <rickogden> just some of the terminals have 4gb of RAM, and with it being a fat client I wondered if it would be worth it
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| 08:50 | <alkisg> You could put a -pae kernel in the chroot
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| 08:50 | <rickogden> alkisg: already got that
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| 08:50 | I'm logged in as root on the client
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| 08:50 | <alkisg> But for casual use, 3 or 4 GB RAM don't make a difference to clients
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| 08:50 | OK. What's the output of `lcpci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA` ?
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| 08:51 | *lspci
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| 08:52 | <rickogden> vga compatible controller
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| 08:52 | sorry, this test machine isn't an onboard one (sorry) it's an nVidia GeForce 8400gs
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| 08:52 | <alkisg> Right. Let's see if temporarily disabling compiz helps:
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| 08:52 | !disable-compiz
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| 08:52 | <ltsp> alkisg: disable-compiz: To disable compiz for all users, run: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity.
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| 08:53 | <alkisg> Run this command as root on the client. It's temporary, it'll go away on the next reboot.
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| 08:53 | Then try to login *without rebooting the client*
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| 08:55 | <rickogden> nope, exactly the same
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| 09:10 | <alkisg> rickogden: sorry I was afk. Two questions, (1) does the lspci command above show that the nouveau driver is in use? and (2) do other clients work?
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| 09:12 | <rickogden> 1) yes 2) not tried, as I'm only testing it with one test client at the moment (and it used to work)
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| 09:15 | <alkisg> rickogden: ok, try with another client, it's the fastest way to see if the problem is X related or not
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| 09:15 | Even a virtual one (e.g. vbox) would do
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| 09:20 | <rickogden> alkisg: just tried a different client with different graphics card and processor
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| 09:20 | and mother
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| 09:20 | board
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| 09:20 | and it did exactly the same thing
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| 09:21 | <alkisg> OK. Can you (1) also try with another user, and (2) check the ~/.xsession-errors file, or pastebin it?
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| 09:21 | I assume that you didn't get any apt-related errors when you installed netbeans, right?
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| 09:21 | <rickogden> alkisg: I already checked with a variety of different users
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| 09:22 | <alkisg> Because netbeans, java etc shouldn't be at all related to login problems
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| 09:22 | But if e.g. you got a prompt to select between gdm and ldm, and you selected gdm, then that would make a difference
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| 09:22 | <rickogden> and should the .xsession-errors file be on the client or the server?
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| 09:22 | <alkisg> The same
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| 09:22 | On the server, and it's mounted on the client with sshfs
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| 09:23 | Btw you're using sshfs, not nfs, right?
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| 09:23 | (the default is sshfs)
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| 09:23 | <rickogden> alkisg: I'm using the default which I think is sshfs
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| 09:24 | ok, if I do a tail -f on the .xsession-errors file and try to log in, nothing is added
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| 09:25 | it doesn't look like it's getting as far as mounting the sshfs
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| 09:28 | ah ok, getting an output now
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| 09:28 | <alkisg> You did say you got a login at /var/log/auth.log on the server, right?
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| 09:28 | <rickogden> id: cannot find name for user ID 1007
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| 09:29 | X Error of failed request: BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation)
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| 09:30 | Failed to start message bus: Memory allocation failure in message bus
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| 09:30 | EOF in dbus-launch reading address from bus daemon
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| 09:30 | <alkisg> That doesn't sound good. Are you using something non-standard wrt user accounts? LDAP or anything/
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| 09:31 | <rickogden> I am using LDAP, but this isn't an LDAP user
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| 09:31 | I've tried both LDAP and non-ldap and both are the same
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| 09:31 | I can ssh in fine
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| 09:32 | <alkisg> If you run this as root on the client, you don't see any output, right? pgrep gdm
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| 09:32 | While this does give you output: pgrep ldm
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| 09:33 | <rickogden> alkisg: correct
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| 09:36 | <alkisg> rickogden: from ldm, go to the preferences button, and select the "xterm" session there.
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| 09:36 | Then try to login. Does the xterm session work?
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| 09:36 | <rickogden> alkisg: I've already been through them all and all have the same result
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| 09:37 | <alkisg> I suspect something goes wrong with the logic that copies the user accounts from the server to the client
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| 09:37 | E.g. if you had a syntax error in your server /etc/passwd, maybe the bash script that handles it would choke on that
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| 09:38 | And would result in no user accounts being transfered to the client
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| 09:38 | <rickogden> the cursor changes to "working" then the whole screen goes black apart from a text cursor in the top left hand corner, then the ldm starts back up
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| 09:38 | <alkisg> But debugging that is a little tricky to do over irc
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| 09:38 | <rickogden> alkisg: right
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| 09:39 | strange how you can log in locally, via ssh and via nx perfectly though?
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| 09:39 | I've not altered any of the user settings at all
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| 09:39 | I might just recreate the fat-client from scratch
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| 09:40 | <alkisg> But you say that you can login from ldm too
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| 09:41 | I.e. you see an entry in the server auth.log
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| 09:41 | Logging in isn't the problem; maybe getting the user accounts list is the problem
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| 09:42 | <rickogden> when I try to login using ltsp it is logged, then says "subsystem request for sftp" and then "Received disconnect from..."
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| 09:44 | <alkisg> Yup, that sounds like it's failing *after* login. And the message about the missing uid makes me thing about the bash script that handles user transfer
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| 09:44 | <rickogden> yeah
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| 09:44 | and yet the only thing changed between it working and it not working is the running of ./netbeans-install.sh on the chroot
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| 09:45 | * rickogden seriously considers version controlling the chroot directory | |
| 09:46 | <alkisg> If I had to guess, I'd guess that the problem is on the server, not in the chroot. E.g. a malformed /etc/passwd.
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| 09:46 | Anyway, gotta go, later... :)
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| 09:47 | <rickogden> thanks for all your help alkisg!
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| 09:48 | <Hyperbyte> !alkisg
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| 09:48 | <ltsp> Hyperbyte: alkisg: The LTSP oracle. Our beacon of hope in the world of LTSP. With the guidance of this divine emperor, we shall prevail..
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| 09:48 | <Hyperbyte> All hail alkisg.
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| 09:48 | <rickogden> agreed
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| 11:12 | <blkdg> hi, i am looking at k12ltsp. can i just download the live demo, burn to dvd and reboot? will i then have server capabilities, and machines with pxe can boot from me?
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| 11:20 | thanks anyhow
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| 11:42 | <pedronveloso> hi
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| 11:52 | <Hyperbyte> Hey there
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| 12:52 | <mgariepy> good morning everyone
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| 12:52 | <andygraybeal> heya, morning :)
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| 12:54 | <Hyperbyte> Afternoon. :)
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| 12:56 | <andygraybeal> hi Hyperbyte :))
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| 15:07 | <knipwim> Hyperbyte: enjoying the weather?
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| 15:09 | <Hyperbyte> Heh
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| 15:09 | Not this morning, no.
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| 15:10 | Had to go to city hall first, for passport... (going on vacation to Norway in august)
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| 15:10 | Which is the other direction from work...
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| 15:10 | Ended up spending a little under an hour on my scooter in the rain...
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| 15:18 | <toddobryan> Hey all! I'm using LTSP on Ubuntu and have a mixed environment with thin and fat clients.
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| 15:19 | I've tried setting the PATH variable in /etc/environment and /etc/profile on the fat client image, but the setting doesn't take.
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| 15:19 | When students open the terminal, the PATH is still the default value.
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| 15:21 | (I teach programming, so students use the terminal quite a bit.)
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| 15:24 | <alkisg> toddobryan: afaik ldm doesn't source /etc/profile, that's why it doesn't work
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| 15:24 | search launchpad, there's a bug report about it + a workaround
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| 15:24 | <toddobryan> OK...I'll go look.
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| 15:26 | <toddobryan> Is ldm LightDM?
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| 15:27 | <alkisg> !ldm
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| 15:27 | <ltsp> alkisg: I do not know about 'ldm', but I do know about these similar topics: 'ldm-trunk', 'ldm-source', 'ldm-dualhead', 'ldm-po'
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| 15:28 | <alkisg> !learn ldm as LDM is the LTSP Display Manager, required for LTSP thin/fat clients, because it authenticates the users to the server via SSH.
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| 15:28 | <ltsp> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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| 15:32 | <Hyperbyte> .
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| 15:33 | !lts
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| 15:33 | <ltsp> Hyperbyte: lts: Long Term Support. Ubuntu usually releases one of these every two years. Instead of the 18 months support period, these are supported 5 years for server packages and 3 years for desktop packages. So far, that's: 6.06 (now end of support), 8.04 (only supported for servers) and 10.04. The next one will be 12.04..
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| 15:48 | <toddobryan> alkisg: Shouldn't a PATH setting in /etc/environment work? Do you think it's getting reset somewhere later?
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| 15:55 | <alkisg> toddobryan: which /etc/environment? in the server or in the chroot?
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| 15:55 | <toddobryan> The chroot.
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| 15:56 | Or do I need to set it in the server?
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| 15:56 | Or both.
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| 15:56 | I can do both...
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| 15:56 | :-)
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| 15:56 | <alkisg> Did you update your chroot? If you cat /etc/environment on a fat client, is it there?
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| 15:56 | <toddobryan> It is, and it has the correct PATH in the file.
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| 15:57 | But if you echo $PATH in the terminal, it's just the default PATH.
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| 15:57 | <alkisg> I think that currently it should be working for fat clients, but not for thin...
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| 15:58 | <toddobryan> I'll be at school tomorrow and will check everything to make sure, but I don't think it's working for fat clients.
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| 15:58 | * alkisg is too deep into delphi code to task-swtch to ltsp code right now :D | |
| 15:59 | <toddobryan> Thanks. If you have time to look into it later, I'd appreciate it.
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| 16:59 | <nivardus> when attempting to boot a fat client it disconnects after nbd recieves the size of the file/device http://paste2.org/p/1520314 DHCP and everything else seems fine, ubuntu boot screen appears momentarily the first attempt
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| 17:05 | <alkisg> !quiet-splash | echo nivardus:
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| 17:05 | <ltsp> nivardus: quiet-splash: to disable the splash screen in Ubuntu, in order to see any boot error messages, run `sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default` and remove quiet splash ..
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| 17:10 | <dgroos> alkisg: you really are advancing this !thing...
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| 17:11 | nice idea/time saver.
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| 17:12 | <alkisg> Hey dgroos, how are you? Yeah it helps, most people here have reoccuring questions
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| 17:13 | <nivardus> alkisg and ltsp: not much more to go by: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9o3OM983y_k/Th8jWi012eI/AAAAAAAAAYQ/M8bjsBIf4ZE/s640/IMG_20110714_131125.jpg
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| 17:14 | <alkisg> nivardus: first, ltsp is a helper bot that just remembers things and tell them back when someone instructs it,
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| 17:15 | and second, this screenshot tells that the nbd disconnection *isn't* the problem
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| 17:15 | <dgroos> alkisg: Pretty good, busy with my summer :)
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| 17:15 | <alkisg> Just before logon, a deliberate nbd connection/disconnection happens. So ignore that warning.
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| 17:15 | <dgroos> How are you doing?
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| 17:15 | <alkisg> So, moving on, it might be an X related problem. Can you try putting SCREEN_07=shell in your lts.conf ?
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| 17:16 | dgroos: fine - unfortunately too busy with my phd. Fortunately I won't miss my vacations because of it :D
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| 17:19 | <dgroos> alkisg: Good. I'm taking off next year from teaching to finish mine--do dissertation.
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| 17:19 | ...though it is filling up my summer some.
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| 17:27 | <nivardus> alkisg: after defining SCREEN_07=shell in my image's default lts.conf area behavior is unchanged.
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| 17:30 | actually no, it's loading lts.conf from tftpboot/ltsp/i386 instead of the fatclient image's directory. I have a prompt
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| 17:30 | at least now I can troubleshoot the x problem, thanks :)
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| 17:32 | <alkisg> !whatis nomodeset | echo nivardus
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| 17:32 | <ltsp> nivardus nomodeset: Unfortunately, Kernel Mode Setting (KMS) doesn't work well with some cards. To disable it, open /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default and replace quiet splash with nomodeset ..
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| 17:32 | <alkisg> Try this, it might help.
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| 17:50 | <nivardus> alkisg: "init: udev-fallback-graphics main process (1150) terminated with status 1 \n init: gdm main process (1164) killed by TERM signal" am I missing drivers?
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| 17:51 | or maybe shell issues from 11.04
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| 17:54 | <alkisg> nivardus: lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA
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| 17:55 | This will tell you your graphics card + driver in use
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| 17:55 | What's the output?
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| 17:57 | <nivardus> Intel Corporation 82945G/GZ Integrated Graphics Controller [8086:2772] (rev 02) \n Subsystem: Dell Device [1028:01ad] \n Kernel modules: intelfb, i915
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| 17:58 | I started x manually I'm on the desktop on the ltsp client atm, mm
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| 18:05 | <alkisg> nivardus: gdm? You shouldn't have gdm on the client, you should be using ldm instead
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| 18:05 | cat /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/default-display-manager
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| 18:06 | What do you have there?
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| 18:07 | <nivardus> /usr/sbin/ldm but in my fatclient chroot, maybe it's loading from i386 even though I've set it to boot the fatclient image in dhcpd.conf
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| 18:08 | <alkisg> You don't need 2 separate images, one fat chroot can serve both thin + fat clients
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| 18:09 | <alkisg> To see which image it loaded, on SCREEN_07=shell, cat /etc/ltsp_fat_chroot
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| 18:11 | <nivardus> the fat client path is in ltsp_chroot not ltsp_fat_chroot so it's being loaded as a thin client I presume...
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| 18:18 | starting ldm manually: GLib-CRITICAL **: g_strsplit: assertion 'string != NULL' failed \n No such file or directory: No such file or directory...
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| 18:19 | <alkisg> OK so to sum up, you're having problems with X on a thin chroot, right? You want to troubleshoot this? Or you want to try with the fat chroot instead? What do you have in your lts.conf currently?
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| 18:23 | <nivardus> SCREEN_07=shell is the only argument (in [default] )
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| 18:29 | <nivardus> I need to head out, but thank you very much for your patience and advice, alkisg. I think some of the issues may be from using ltsp server on an existing desktop machine, as I'm not sure why it would be trying gdm otherwise
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| 18:31 | <Hyperbyte> Speaking of !quiet-splash... I disabled the splashscreen on my LTSP installation, and me, as well as collegues, have the notion that the clients boot much faster
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| 18:31 | Is this between our ears, or do they really boot faster?
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| 22:32 | <ball> Is LTSP used with a variety of host Linux distributions? Are there a few that are most prevalent?
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| 22:36 | <Hyperbyte> ball: LTSP should run be able to run on any Linux distribution, but setup will be difficult
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| 22:37 | Ubuntu, Debian and Fedora have best LTSP integration, for easy installation.
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| 22:37 | Debian I haven't tried, but supposed to be good. Fedora's integration is outdated, doesn't work anymore since Fedora 12 without tweaking
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| 22:38 | Ubuntu has a special LTSP spin, Edubuntu.
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| 22:38 | It's what I'm using after having ditched Fedora.
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| 22:48 | <andygraybeal> Hyperbyte, i'm interested in the quicker load without the splash answer also :)
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| 22:49 | <ball> I wonder if Xubuntu have it as an option.
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| 22:49 | <Hyperbyte> !quiet-splash | echo andygraybeal
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| 22:49 | <ltsp> andygraybeal quiet-splash: to disable the splash screen in Ubuntu, in order to see any boot error messages, run `sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default` and remove quiet splash ..
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| 22:50 | <Hyperbyte> Not sure if it's quicker load though... it *seemed* quicker, but that could just be imagination. Let me know what your experience is. :)
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| 22:50 | <andygraybeal> Hyperbyte, oh i mean you never got an answer as if it makes a difference on load time
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| 22:50 | *cool
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| 22:50 | <Hyperbyte> ball, LTSP is included in default Ubuntu distributions
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| 22:50 | <andygraybeal> aah i don't want to do it unless i hear more :)
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| 22:50 | <Hyperbyte> apt-get install ltsp-server I believe
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| 22:50 | Edubuntu just has it as option during installation, and sets up the entire server and client ready-to-go.
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| 22:51 | andygraybeal, you could just try it, see how it works. In the file above, there's two options 'splash' and 'quiet'. 'splash' enables/disabled the splash screen during boot, 'quiet' enables/disables debug messages
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| 22:52 | Easily remove, easily put back. :)
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| 22:52 | *removed
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| 22:52 | <andygraybeal> aah okay cool
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| 22:52 | <Hyperbyte> To me it seemed faster, but it could just be that, because you're not staring at a white screen with "Ubuntu" on it, but rather some boot messages scrolling by, that it seems to go quicker
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| 22:53 | Or it could be because my thin clients have problems with setting the proper video mode during the splash screen and disabling it saves them time figuring out the video mode... I haven't looked into it that much yet, just experimented a little today. :)
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| 22:53 | I'm gonna sleep, g'night all. :)
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| 22:55 | <andygraybeal> night night :)
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| 23:00 | <ball> I didn't mind the Is it difficult to configure?
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| 23:00 | oops
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| 23:00 | I walked away from the keyboard mid-thought there.
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| 23:01 | That's what happens when the office manager gets talking about air conditioning.
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| 23:02 | I should start reading some LTSP documentation from the sound of things.
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| 23:02 | The server has two Ethernet ports. I'll use one to connect to the Internet (via an existing LAN) and the other will be for the terminals.
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| 23:04 | How difficult is it to create an image for each terminal type?
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| 23:16 | <andygraybeal> depends, are most of them i386?
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| 23:17 | * ball nods | |
| 23:18 | <ball> Two types: one is a VIA EPIA M10000 "Nehemiah" board with 1 Gbyte RAM and Unichrome graphics, the other type is Compaq iPaq legacy-free.
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| 23:19 | (with probably 1M RAM, Intel graphics)
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| 23:19 | Both PXE-capable.
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| 23:31 | <TheMatrix3000> how would i make ltsp redundant?
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| 23:34 | <ball> Invent something better ;-)
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| 23:34 | I'm guessing you want fail-over though
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| 23:34 | ...between different hosts, perhaps
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| 23:36 | <TheMatrix3000> what if i did ltsp-cluster
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| 23:36 | with 2 application servers
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| 23:36 | the goal is to provide lots of uptime
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| 23:36 | <ball> That's what I would like to do, eventually.
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| 23:39 | I have found it difficult getting straight answers about the practicality of that though, sadly.
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| 23:43 | <ball> ...and a consultant would cost more than the second server.
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| 23:54 | <TheMatrix3000> yea :(
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| 23:55 | is it possible though?
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| 23:55 | <ball> Probably.
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| 23:55 | <TheMatrix3000> andygraybeal: all are i386
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| 23:55 | <andygraybeal> TheMatrix3000, should be easy then :)
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| 23:55 | <TheMatrix3000> how?
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| 23:56 | how would you make a redundant ltsp settup
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| 23:56 | is ltsp-cluster redundant?
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| 23:56 | <andygraybeal> TheMatrix3000, oh i thought you were responding to something eles
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| 23:56 | *else
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| 23:56 | <TheMatrix3000> oh
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| 23:56 | <ball> andygraybeal: Mine are all i386 too
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| 23:56 | (the terminals and the servers)
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| 23:56 | <andygraybeal> ball, that's who i was responding too
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| 23:56 | :)))
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| 23:56 | <TheMatrix3000> ahhh
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| 23:56 | lol
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| 23:56 | yea, i got it lol
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| 23:56 | <andygraybeal> why would you need different images for i386 boxes?
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| 23:56 | <TheMatrix3000> <<<< idiot
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| 23:57 | <ball> andygraybeal: Different graphics chips, processors etc?
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| 23:57 | <andygraybeal> TheMatrix3000, yea, some people in here have ltsp clusters :) i would love to have a fail-over machine too!
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| 23:57 | ball, graphics can be handled in lts.conf file
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| 23:58 | processors.. you mean like CPUs?
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| 23:58 | * ball nods | |
| 23:58 | <andygraybeal> well.. what is the slowest CPU?
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| 23:58 | <ball> 800 MHz Celeron Coppermine
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| 23:58 | <andygraybeal> these machines don't need to be very fast
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| 23:58 | <ball> ...or, arguably VIA C3 at 1 GHz ;-)
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| 23:59 | <andygraybeal> celeron... omg. .. umm. my head stopped.. umm..
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| 23:59 | i bet you'd be just fine
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| 23:59 | i think you don't need different images for the setup.
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| 23:59 | are you planning on running as fat or thin clients?
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| 23:59 | <ball> Thin, just graphical terminals.
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| 23:59 | <andygraybeal> yea, you should be fine
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