IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 11 December 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:48 | <ball> Am I right in thinking 64 Mbytes isn't enough for an X terminal?
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| 00:48 | ...for use with LTSP
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| 00:51 | <johnny> it could be.. if you severely trimmed it down, and used nbd swap
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| 00:51 | but i can imagine the bootup will be slow
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| 00:51 | and also didn't require any proprietary drivers
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| 00:52 | <ball> I know I have more RAM, I'd just have to find it.
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| 00:53 | What is "nbd"?
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| 00:53 | <warren> nbd swap is default in fedora, i don't know about the other distros
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| 00:54 | There are some non-upstream hacks that can be done beyond turning off features to cut down RAM usage even further
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| 00:54 | <mchelen1> depends on the distro, DSL will run fine with 64mb ram from cd boot
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| 00:54 | <warren> an xorg.conf option can make it possible to use keyboard/mouse even without haldaemon
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| 00:54 | mchelen1: not as a LTSP5 client
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| 00:55 | <mchelen1> warren, oh no how come?
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| 00:55 | <ball> Right, but what is it?
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| 00:55 | <warren> I don't remmeber off hand
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| 00:55 | <mchelen1> hmm interesting
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| 00:55 | <ball> Hmm... /where/ is it?
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| 00:56 | <warren> i'm talking about only x.org 1.5
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| 00:56 | or x.org that fails to have any input devices with haldaemon stopped
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| 00:56 | haldaemon uses like 7MB RAM
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| 00:57 | Fedora might be the only distro that ships X that way.
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| 00:57 | I dunno
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| 00:57 | <ball> I know I have boxes of RAM here somewhere, it's just finding it.
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| 00:57 | <warren> it sounds stupid, but supposedly it cuts power usage and CPU wakeups substantially
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| 01:06 | <johnny> ships it with way?
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| 01:06 | requiring hal? or stripping it?
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| 01:06 | hopefully devicekit will help some?
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| 01:08 | <ball> Would having 512Mbytes of RAM help a lot?
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| 01:08 | <johnny> only if you run local apps
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| 01:08 | <ball> What about 256M?
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| 01:08 | <johnny> i think 128 is good for standard thin client functionality
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| 01:08 | <ball> I probably have a 128M DIMM around here somewhere.
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| 01:08 | 256M is US$20
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| 01:09 | ...which is somewhat affordable.
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| 01:09 | <johnny> 128 is fine.. it really is..
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| 01:09 | <ball> johnny: box has 64M now
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| 01:10 | <johnny> you said that already :)
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| 01:10 | * ball nods | |
| 01:10 | <johnny> 64 isn't quite enough unless you strip it
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| 01:10 | nbd is network block device
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| 01:10 | so you'd be exposing a swap device over the network
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| 01:10 | <ball> This thing has a local disk drive though, so it could swap to that.
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| 01:11 | <johnny> oh.. sure
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| 01:11 | USE_LOCAL_SWAP
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| 01:11 | in lts.conf
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| 01:11 | USE_LOCAL_SWAP=Y
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| 01:11 | it'll just be kinda slow..
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| 01:12 | <ball> Why would that be slower than swapping over a LAN?
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| 01:12 | <johnny> it wouldn't
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| 01:12 | it'd just be slower than having ram
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| 01:14 | <ball> oh, I see.
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| 01:14 | That makes sense.
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| 01:15 | <Ryan52> warren, wow, very scheduled :)
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| 01:15 | <warren> I did say ~
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| 01:16 | <johnny> i sure did miss my old music..
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| 02:38 | <polytan> hi
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| 02:40 | <johnny> polytan, i am happy.. i have ldm.. now i just have to test the usb :)
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| 02:40 | still haven't got my stable url yet ..
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| 02:40 | <polytan> :(
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| 02:40 | can you give me one ?
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| 02:41 | or just explain to me what to do to have the same as I need
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| 02:48 | <polytan> johnny, did you upload the ebuild on the overlay ?
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| 02:49 | <johnny> which ebuild?
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| 02:49 | <polytan> you just need a working stage3 ?
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| 02:49 | <johnny> a newer stage3
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| 02:49 | <polytan> ok
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| 02:49 | <johnny> here's one
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| 02:49 | http://www.funtoo.org/linux/x86/funtoo-x86-2008.12.07/stage3-x86-2008.12.07.tar.bz2
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| 02:49 | <polytan> no changes in ltsp-build-client ?
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| 02:49 | <johnny> lemme check..
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| 02:49 | you should emerge ltsp-server anyways
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| 02:50 | i found out one more manual thing to do
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| 02:50 | which i'm not sure how to automate yet
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| 02:51 | <polytan> what is it ?
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| 02:51 | <johnny> which is to run dispatch-conf or etc-update after the installation is complete, and then run rc-status to clear up the cache issues
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| 02:51 | in the chroot
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| 02:51 | <polytan> ok
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| 02:51 | so
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| 02:51 | I'm downloading the stage3 you gave me
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| 02:52 | I can simply try to ltsp-build-client --uri... and boot it ?
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| 02:52 | <johnny> --stage-uri
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| 02:52 | no.. i just said you had to do those other things
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| 02:52 | as well as fix genkernel
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| 02:53 | as soon as i figure out how to automatically update it
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| 02:53 | <polytan> ltsp-build-client --base /netboot/pxeclients --chroot GentooLTSP2 --locale fr_FR.UTF-8 --prompt-rootpass --arch x86 --stage-uri=file:///netboot/stage3-x86-2008.12.07.tar.bz2 --jobs 17
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| 02:53 | johnny> no.. i just said you had to do those other things : yes, of course
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| 02:54 | started
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| 02:54 | <johnny> maybe i'm doing the wrong thing with my export CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK
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| 02:54 | lemme look it up
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| 02:56 | <polytan> what is "CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK" ?
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| 02:57 | I will also clean the initrd : all stuff for raid, lvm, hdd are loaded for nothing
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| 02:59 | <johnny> aha polytan mind starting over ?
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| 02:59 | and trying one thing?
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| 02:59 | change CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK="" to CONFIG_PROTECT="-*" in /etc/ltsp/quickstart/profile.qs
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| 03:00 | and then once the install is done, leave me a message telling me if etc-update doesn't tell you that any files need updated
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| 03:03 | <polytan> ok
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| 03:04 | actually, the kernel has already been built
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| 03:04 | I'm a the "Installing extra-packages" state
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| 03:04 | at*
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| 03:06 | johnny, there is just one CONF_PROTECT occurancy ?
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| 03:06 | in pre_build_kernel section ?
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| 03:06 | <johnny> yes
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| 03:07 | i just want to see of the export gets used the entire time
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| 03:07 | i'd prefer not to set put it in the make.conf and then sed it out later
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| 03:07 | i will if i have to tho
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| 03:08 | <polytan> started
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| 03:08 | the first one has been finished
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| 03:09 | <johnny> it'd be nice to modify the script to add the portage 2.2 --jobs option
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| 03:09 | <polytan> I've never used portage 2.2
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| 03:09 | is it really more interesting ?
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| 03:09 | <johnny> and change the current --jobs to makeopts quoted
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| 03:09 | sure, it'll emerge packages in parallel
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| 03:09 | <polytan> hum
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| 03:09 | with --jobs=-j17, should be interesting
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| 03:10 | do you know a man explaining how to configure make.conf for portage 2.2 ?
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| 03:10 | <johnny> it's not much different
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| 03:10 | just new cli options, and the lack of the need to revdep-rebuild
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| 03:10 | via the preserved-libs FEATURE
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| 03:11 | <polytan> ok
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| 03:11 | <johnny> no.. --jobs on emerge cli.. is different than the --jobs i currently have in ltsp-build-client
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| 03:11 | <polytan> maybe that I will try to switch today
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| 03:11 | <johnny> i'm going to rename the current --jobs to just --makeopts i think
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| 03:12 | if i can figure out how to work quoted args properly in sh.. maybe i'll just work
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| 03:12 | i'm kinda waiting for portage 2.2 to be stabled tho
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| 03:12 | before doing so
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| 03:12 | <polytan> johnny, so
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| 03:12 | I'm in the first chroot (without changing the option PROTECT)
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| 03:13 | what do you want me to do (like I was following a doc or a HOWTO)
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| 03:13 | <johnny> nothing your'e supposed to do
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| 03:13 | <polytan> genkernel ?
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| 03:13 | <johnny> that's why i'm having you test the thing i suggested
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| 03:13 | yes.. genkernel.. that should be it
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| 03:13 | for now
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| 03:13 | <polytan> and next ?
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| 03:13 | <johnny> setup the pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 03:14 | <polytan> done
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| 03:14 | <johnny> i'm just not sure how to automate that part
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| 03:14 | <polytan> generkenl --rebuild --menuconfig iniytrd ?
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| 03:14 | <johnny> since gentoo has multiple tftp servers avialable
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| 03:14 | just edit the file and genkernel initrd
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| 03:14 | that's all
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| 03:14 | <polytan> just edit the file => which file ?
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| 03:14 | <johnny> /usr/share/genkernel/x86/modules_load
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| 03:15 | <johnny> stuff is going to change a bit in the next genkernel
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| 03:15 | so.. any docs will need to be changed
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| 03:15 | i'm waiting for all this to stabilize before writing *official* docs
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| 03:15 | <polytan> yes, but modifiying this fikle, I will not have the driver in hard in the kernel and the dhcp command will not be able to be done
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| 03:16 | <johnny> you don't need it hard in the kernel if you modify that file
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| 03:16 | that's the point :)
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| 03:16 | <polytan> ok
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| 03:16 | <polytan> and I can put MODULES_NET="*" ?
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| 03:16 | <johnny> hmm..
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| 03:16 | i don't think so
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| 03:16 | maybe..
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| 03:16 | you'll have to look int the code
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| 03:17 | genkernel that is
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| 03:17 | to see how it finds the modules
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| 03:17 | <polytan> because I wil never know the type of the ethernet card I will have on the client
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| 03:17 | <johnny> yes.. that is the problem
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| 03:17 | genkernel doesn't have a way to do it now
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| 03:17 | and i don't have time to fix genkernel :)
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| 03:17 | <polytan> When I did it manually, I put all network drivers in hard
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| 03:17 | <johnny> so i am waiting on them to fix it
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| 03:17 | <polytan> it seemed to work
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| 03:17 | <johnny> well sure. that will work
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| 03:18 | <johnny> but you should modify the file anyway just to remove all the excess stuff
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| 03:18 | <polytan> I've done genkernel stuff
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| 03:18 | I can boot now ?
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| 03:18 | or try ;)
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| 03:18 | I've got a problem doing "emerge -uvDNa world"
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| 03:19 | [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/portage/layman/make.conf' in /etc/make.conf
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| 03:19 | <johnny> this is after it is done?
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| 03:19 | that's cuz of the bind mounting
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| 03:19 | <polytan> ok
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| 03:19 | <johnny> lemme give you a script
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| 03:20 | http://rafb.net/p/10ZNxV24.html
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| 03:20 | i use that
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| 03:20 | it's very simple
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| 03:20 | no variables even :)
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| 03:20 | just somethin i needed real quick
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| 03:20 | mount the stuff. chroot in.. when you exit.. unmount the stuff you mounted
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| 03:20 | this gentoo developer actually wrote a more comprehensive script that does the same thing
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| 03:21 | not sure if you feel like digging it out tho
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| 03:21 | <polytan> I've just missed mount /usr/local/portage :)
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| 03:22 | <johnny> no.. you need more
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| 03:22 | oh
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| 03:22 | well sure.. but this script makes it easier
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| 03:22 | you could make it work with any changeroot with a simple shell var tho
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| 03:22 | tchroot /path
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| 03:27 | <polytan> johnny, so
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| 03:28 | In the first chrrot (with the PROTECT command), I have to update "groff,openssl,libxml2,psmisc and openssh"
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| 03:28 | (emerge -uvDNa world)
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| 03:29 | and exactly the same on the second one
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| 03:35 | <polytan> johnny, MODULES_NET+"*" doesn't work ;)
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| 03:36 | johnny, the option PROTECT is really important
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| 03:36 | etc-update is done on a side and not on the other
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| 03:39 | it doesn't work adding the right module in the initrd
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| 03:39 | I will add it in hjard
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| 03:53 | <johnny> huh.. what about CONFIG_PROTECT?
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| 03:53 | did it work
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| 03:53 | your system is much faster htan mine :)
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| 03:54 | <polytan> johnny, it is better with the thing you asked me to change
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| 03:54 | no file to update
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| 03:55 | <johnny> YAY!
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| 03:55 | i will commit that
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| 03:56 | now.. when you boot
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| 03:56 | tell me if you get a bunch of it checking cached dependencies between every step
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| 03:57 | if you do.. i'll add an rc-status to the end of the install.. which'll solve the issue
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| 03:57 | openrc seems to want to keep trying to calculate them on a ro fs
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| 04:14 | <polytan> johnny, there is no ldm starting after boot
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| 04:14 | <johnny> hmm.. worked for me..
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| 04:14 | weird
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| 04:14 | <polytan> how to know which X11 package is missing ?
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| 04:14 | <johnny> should be none
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| 04:14 | <polytan> on both chrrot (with prortect option and not) there is no ldm
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| 04:15 | <johnny> is it installed?
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| 04:15 | what is the last few services to start ?
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| 04:15 | <polytan> network filesystem, syslog-ng,local
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| 04:15 | again the ip command not found !
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| 04:15 | grrr
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| 04:16 | <johnny> hmm.. weird..
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| 04:16 | <polytan> you've forgotten to add the iproute2 programm I think ;)
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| 04:18 | <johnny> ok.. lemme add that in a moment
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| 04:20 | <polytan> I don't have ldm neither actually :/
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| 04:22 | <johnny> ok.. ltsp-client now has iproute2 dep
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| 04:22 | and i commited the CONFIG_PROTECT thing
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| 04:23 | <polytan> ok
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| 04:23 | and for ldm ?
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| 04:23 | <johnny> i did a fresh install yesterday.. and it worked
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| 04:23 | you're gonna have to check your logs or something
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| 04:24 | <polytan> I've found it
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| 04:24 | the "SERVER" variable isn't well set
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| 04:24 | <johnny> hmm.. that's cuz if ip
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| 04:24 | <polytan> and the default one (192.168.0.254" should be the same as your...
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| 04:24 | <polytan> )
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| 04:24 | <johnny> ok.. so install iproute2 and reboot
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| 04:25 | <johnny> polytan, oh.. here it is
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| 04:26 | it's cuz your chroot name OOPS
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| 04:26 | this was stolen directly from ubuntu
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| 04:26 | and debian
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| 04:26 | i started with their initscripts and modified them for gentoo
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| 04:26 | SERVER=$(sed -ne '/ltsp.*nfs/ { s/^\([^:]*\):.*$/\1/; p; q }' /proc/mounts)
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| 04:26 | see.. it looks for ltsp in the chroot name
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| 04:27 | which is why your server var isn't filled :)
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| 04:27 | <polytan> ok
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| 04:27 | <johnny> so.. if your chroot was under /opt/ltsp.. it'd work just fine
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| 04:27 | <polytan> but with the right default ip (192.168.32.254) it doesn't boot
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| 04:28 | <johnny> what happens?
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| 04:29 | <polytan> (do you know why the "hostname" displayed in the command line is only "192" instaed of the complete hostname in /etc/conf.d ?)
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| 04:30 | <polytan> johnny, there is no ldm log in /var/log but ldm is installed
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| 04:31 | <johnny> hmm ?
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| 04:31 | well sure.. no ldm log if ldm doesn't even try to start
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| 04:31 | <Appiah> not even if it fails to start?
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| 04:31 | <johnny> no idea
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| 04:31 | i said not even try to start tho
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| 04:32 | which sounded like the problem
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| 04:32 | polytan, what hostname ?
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| 04:32 | <polytan> the histnamle of the machine is its ip
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| 04:32 | <johnny> no.. tha'ts bad
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| 04:32 | don't do that
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| 04:33 | that is not acceptable
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| 04:33 | <polytan> I did nothing myself :)
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| 04:33 | <johnny> oh
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| 04:33 | well it shoudl default the hostname to
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| 04:33 | client-$ip
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| 04:33 | <polytan> no
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| 04:33 | <johnny> did you try this after installing iproute2 ?
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| 04:33 | <polytan> ccat /etc/hostname => hostname=192.168.32.1$
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| 04:34 | -$
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| 04:36 | <johnny> which is now in ltsp-client by default in the future, i just added it
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| 04:38 | <polytan> I don't understand why there is no log somewhere for thing not working
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| 04:38 | shiould be something somewhere :/
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| 04:39 | <johnny> because maybe it didn't try to start?
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| 04:39 | so it could not generate log yet
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| 04:39 | <polytan> how to check ?
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| 04:39 | <johnny> well first.. answer my question
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| 04:39 | did you install iproute2 in the chroot
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| 04:39 | and then did you reboot
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| 04:39 | <polytan> yes
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| 04:39 | 4 times
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| 04:39 | humm
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| 04:40 | should I re-emerge ltsp-server ?
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| 04:40 | <johnny> sure.. but that won't solve this problem
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| 04:40 | but it will bring in my fixed config file..
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| 04:40 | <polytan> because I don't have done it since yesterday
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| 04:40 | <johnny> oh.. there are some other oddities
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| 04:41 | i forgot that the package cache, will not evaluate new dependenies if you install binary packages
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| 04:41 | <polytan> and that's what I'm doing
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| 04:41 | <johnny> which means the dep i added to ltsp-client will not take effect for you until you delete the packages
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| 04:41 | you should layman -S
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| 04:42 | <polytan> I will clean my package/x86 folder
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| 04:42 | <johnny> and then re emerge ltsp-server
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| 04:42 | <polytan> did you include PKGDIR="/usr/package/x86/" or just let the default one ?
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| 04:42 | <johnny> i have to go to bed now polytan it is really late
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| 04:42 | <polytan> johnny, yes
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| 04:42 | <johnny> i will be back later
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| 04:42 | <polytan> have a nice night, I will work on it ;)
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| 04:42 | <johnny> let me know what happens
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| 04:45 | <polytan> I have to reboot
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| 04:47 | <polytan> re
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| 04:50 | <polytan> building the kernel
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| 04:56 | extra-packages
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| 05:01 | still extra-packages
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| 05:02 | * warren notes this is why he thinks Gentoo is silly. | |
| 05:02 | <polytan> I don't understand why it is so long
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| 05:02 | and I don't have any information like 15/16 packages done or 3/150 packages done
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| 05:03 | warren, yes, but it is also fantastic :)
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| 05:08 | <polytan> johnny, I have to go to eat
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| 05:08 | I will let you a memo
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| 05:08 | see you tonight
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| 05:14 | <dpreacher> hello
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| 05:15 | how do we verify which n/w cards come with PXE and whether the PXE included would be supported by LTSP?
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| 06:07 | <polytan> modifying /usr/share/ltsp/ltsp_config and emerging iproute2, I can connect my client to the server johnny
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| 06:07 | I don't know how the usb works
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| 06:18 | <generalsnus> we have a ltsp enviroment, and the ltsp servers(xubuntu) authenticates with M$ AD. we would like to get USB drives to work for the clients.. It used to work on both servers.. now, this has stopped working on 1 of the servers..prolly after a update.. thing is.. we dont really remember how we got it to work the first time around.. So what config files are involved here?
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| 06:19 | <polytan> generalsnus, you just should need LOCALDEV=True in lts.conf
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| 06:19 | and all your users in "fuse" group
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| 06:19 | the doc says that
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| 06:19 | but it doesn't work here :(
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| 06:20 | <generalsnus> all users in fuse group? there are no users on the ltsp server
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| 06:21 | all users resides in AD..
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| 06:21 | <polytan> so I don't know :(
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| 06:21 | but I'm interesting by your config
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| 06:21 | my users are also on a AD server
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| 06:21 | <Appiah> hehe I'm just trying that atm
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| 06:22 | I have had linux server auth against AD before but not with LTSP
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| 06:22 | <generalsnus> all users are meber of a group called domain^users tho
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| 06:22 | <Appiah> so I'm trying it now
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| 06:22 | <generalsnus> we used likewise-open for the authentication.. 1 button join domain
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| 06:25 | <nubae> generalsnus: just make sure your users in AD are all in the fuse group
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| 06:26 | <polytan> I don't have any fuse group on my server :(
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| 06:27 | <nubae> hmmm what do u get if u do groups
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| 06:27 | on the command line
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| 06:27 | anyway, I dont know about AD, but for openldap, u can add users to the relevant groups
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| 06:28 | localdev=true is on by default, u dont need that
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| 06:28 | <generalsnus> nubae: it wont matter if i made a goup on ad and called it fuse... the ltsp server couldnt care less.. and i cant add the user, since the user dosent exist
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| 06:28 | <nubae> the groups should be created by AD on your server
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| 06:28 | <generalsnus> and it seems i can add a group to a group on linux
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| 06:29 | <nubae> AD controls your users and groups, thats the idea behind it
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| 06:29 | <generalsnus> the only group that is created on server is domain^users
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| 06:29 | <nubae> thats not enough
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| 06:29 | <generalsnus> the students are member of like 7 groups on ad
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| 06:29 | <nubae> to make it work on linux that is
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| 06:30 | on the linux side, have u installed ldap client or something similar?
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| 06:30 | so that AD can talk to the clients?
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| 06:31 | <generalsnus> we authenticate with likewise-open.. thats the only thing we installed in addition to ltsp server
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| 06:31 | <polytan> how to put a specific xkblayout ?
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| 06:32 | I added the option in the [default] section of lts.conf
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| 06:32 | but nothing changed :(
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| 06:32 | <nubae> added what=
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| 06:32 | ?
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| 06:33 | generalsnus: take a look here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ActiveDirectoryWinbindHowto
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| 06:34 | * nubae reboots... | |
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| 06:38 | <generalsnus> nubae: why would i use that howto, when using likewise-open.. is a lot easier.. its only a 1 click join domain.. everything works.. besides mounting of usb drives
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| 06:53 | <generalsnus> nubae: why would i use that howto, when using likewise-open.. is a lot easier.. its only a 1 click join domain.. everything works.. besides mounting of usb drives
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| 07:14 | <nubae> generalsnus: if u want usb devices or any other local devices for that matter u'll need to set up your groups correctly
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| 07:15 | <nubae> note I know nothing about windows systems, I am a linux geek... but setting it up with opneldap works no problems, devices and all
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| 07:16 | greets QFUNK... I see the ministry again on tuesday... I will ask whats happening in relation to thin cans...
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| 08:08 | <Blinny> If a local device (usb stick) has multiple partitions on it, how can I access them all from a thin client? I'm using Ubuntu Hardy
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| 08:12 | <nubae> should just show up
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| 08:12 | <Blinny> My ext2 partition is showing up but not the ntfs one
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| 08:12 | Does the chroot have support for ntfs by default?
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| 08:12 | <nubae> not sure
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| 08:13 | probably not if u dont see it
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| 08:14 | <Blinny> ntfs-3g and libntfs-3g23 are installed in the chroot
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| 08:16 | <nubae> try mounting it manually
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| 08:17 | <Blinny> Actually, I believe the partition is fat32
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| 08:19 | Well, dmesg on the client only shows one partition.
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| 08:19 | <nubae> well this is not a solution really, but u could just pug it into the server
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| 08:21 | <Blinny> I'm doing this as a first foray into local devices. I have some users who want to plug in a camera so I figured I'd try my USB thumb drive first.
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| 08:22 | <nubae> yeah at my location, I forced people to go through the server
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| 08:22 | bit of security and ease of use
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| 08:22 | <Gadi> warren: ping
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| 08:24 | <rjune> !g
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| 08:24 | <ltspbot`> rjune: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 08:24 | <Gadi> mornin, rjune
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| 08:25 | <rjune> what's new?
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| 08:25 | <Gadi> rainy day
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| 08:26 | <rjune> :-(
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| 08:26 | sunny here
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| 08:34 | <Blinny> Hey Gadi - you know why a local device only mounts one partition?
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| 08:35 | I plug it into windows - if I umount cleanly the next time I plug into a thin client it mounts the vfat partition. If I unmount uncleanly (just pull it) it will mount the ext2 partition.
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| 08:36 | <Gadi> you have two partitions?
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| 08:36 | <Blinny> Yes.
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| 08:36 | <Gadi> fat is part1 and ext2 is part2?
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| 08:37 | <Blinny> Wait, scratch that - only one partition.
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| 08:37 | Pardon me - I'm on some whacked out muscle relaxers
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| 08:37 | <Gadi> np - as long as u share
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| 08:37 | :)
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| 08:37 | <Blinny> They make you sleepy and dumb.
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| 08:38 | <Gadi> I could use some of that
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| 08:38 | * Gadi needs a mental health day | |
| 08:38 | <Blinny> This is weird though...
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| 08:38 | After an unclean windows unmount, the thumb will mount on the thin client as empty - I copied a file to it that persisted across umount/mounts
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| 08:39 | <Gadi> you may have been copying a file to the mountpoint
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| 08:39 | and not the device
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| 08:39 | it may be in the tmpfs of the client
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| 08:39 | <Blinny> Ah!
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| 08:40 | * Gadi wonders if we do a rmdir or an rm -rf | |
| 08:40 | <Gadi> to delete the mountpoint
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| 08:40 | rmdir would fail (due to the presence of a file)
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| 08:40 | <Blinny> It'd be nice for future fuses to say 'you're not really mounted even though an icon shows up on your desktop with the correct device label'
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| 08:41 | <Gadi> well, you definitely found a quirk
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| 08:41 | <Blinny> Learn something new every day. Thanks Gadi.
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| 08:42 | Does LTSP have a suggested... place to make suggestions?
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| 08:42 | <Gadi> so, the icon didnt go away either?
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| 08:42 | <Blinny> It does if you pull the device
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| 08:42 | <Gadi> ah
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| 08:42 | <Blinny> A full-on fat install tells you windows didn't unmount cleanly so I'm not mounting this; you may force it if you don't use windows
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| 08:42 | <Gadi> but when the device is plugged in, you have an icon but the device itself was never mounted
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| 08:43 | <Blinny> I have an icon with the correct device name
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| 08:43 | <Gadi> gotcha
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| 08:43 | yeah, we should actually send a signal to remove the ltspfs mount if the mount to the client fails
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| 08:43 | that's easy enough to do
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| 08:44 | <Blinny> Makes sense - the device size reported is the same as my thin client's tmpfs (109MB)
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| 08:44 | <Gadi> can you file a bug on launchpad?
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| 08:44 | <Blinny> Sure
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| 08:44 | <Gadi> I guess it is a bug against ltspfs
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| 08:44 | or ltsp
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| 08:44 | one of the two
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| 08:45 | <Blinny> I'll try fs
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| 08:45 | Thanks for the help/tips
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| 08:45 | <Gadi> np
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| 09:13 | <jammcq> g'morning friends
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| 09:16 | <Appiah> Hi friend!
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| 09:16 | <pscheie> hey jammcq
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| 09:17 | <Gadi> Blinny: I just pushed a fix for that problem into upstream ltspfs
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| 09:18 | morning, jammcq
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| 09:21 | <Blinny> Gadi: You are teh awes0mzz.
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| 09:22 | <rjune> Blinny, he is.
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| 09:35 | <alkisg> Hello... I want to write that "nvidia and ati suck, do prefer intel graphics cards" in an ltsp manual I'm preparing, but I can't write it due to policy reasons. Is something like this written somewhere in any docs, so that I can link there instead of saying it?
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| 09:36 | :)
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| 09:37 | <rjune> first off, that's awful grammar
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| 09:37 | second off, nvidia and ati cards do not suck. intel cards are not always preferred.
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| 09:37 | <alkisg> rjune: don't worry, my Greek is better, the manual will be in Greek
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| 09:37 | rjune: really? People here told me that nvidia overwrites some opengl libraries,
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| 09:38 | and I've heard of many problems with the ati drivers...
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| 09:38 | <polytan> johnny, hello :)
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| 09:38 | <rjune> nvidia does overwrite gl libraries at least it used to.
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| 09:38 | intel works out of the box.
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| 09:38 | but nvidia and ati perform better.
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| 09:38 | <polytan> I have a few more hours at work :)
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| 09:38 | <nubae> what's wrong with ATI?
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| 09:39 | <alkisg> Oh, forgot to say that I'm talking about the *server* graphics card
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| 09:39 | <polytan> alkisg, I'm using nvidia proprio drivers on my computer
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| 09:39 | <alkisg> The clients will have whatever they have, 10 years old PCs
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| 09:39 | <nubae> oh well doesnt really matter whats in the server does it
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| 09:39 | <polytan> and it works perfectly with the 8800gtx and 2 wide screens (different size)
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| 09:40 | <alkisg> But if I put the commercial nvidia drivers on the server, won't that affect the clients?
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| 09:41 | <rjune> alkisg, oh, server graphics card is completely irrelevant
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| 09:41 | <sbalneav> Sigh, I'm going to regret weighing in on this, but I've switched from using nVidia and ATI to using exclusively intel. I do some linux gaming at home, and I've been very happy with intel. Speed's just fine, and everything always just "works out of the box", even connectiong to display projectors.
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| 09:41 | <alkisg> sbalneav: don't worry, you won't regret it... but please, can I quote you on that? I can't find it written anywhere!!! :D
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| 09:41 | <rjune> sbalneav, aka, it's good enough performance wise, and they OSS their drivers so its easy to work with
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| 09:42 | alkisg, server doesn't matter.
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| 09:42 | <sbalneav> Since I've switched to Intel graphics, I don't have to look at xorg.conf anymore, which is a blessing.
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| 09:42 | <rjune> use whatever card you want.
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| 09:42 | sbalneav, since I switched to ubuntu I don't have to look at xorg.conf anymore, which is a blessing
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| 09:42 | <alkisg> rjune: so I can have the latest proprietary nvidia drivers on the server, and the older proprietary nvidia drivers on the chroot?
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| 09:42 | <sbalneav> alkisg: You can certainly quote me on that, but I'm hardly an authority that anyone would give any weight to :)
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| 09:42 | <nubae> we would
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| 09:42 | :-)
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| 09:43 | <sbalneav> I've got *YOU* all fooled then :)
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| 09:43 | <rjune> alkisg, yes. but don't bother with the proprietary drivers on the server. there's no point
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| 09:44 | <sbalneav> rjune: Well, only problem with that is, I've seen lots of instances where the "server" for the classroom or whatever ends up being the teachers workstation, and IT drives the other terminals in the classroom.
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| 09:44 | <jstephan> hi all, maybe someone has an idea at http://picpaste.de/failure.png
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| 09:44 | <alkisg> rjune: ok, thanks. I'm afraid that even if I tell the rest of the Greek teachers not to install the proprietary drivers on the server, they will install them though.
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| 09:45 | the usual setup will be what sbalneav said above.
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| 09:45 | <rjune> alkisg, if they cannot be trusted, don't give them root
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| 09:45 | <sbalneav> jstephan: yeah, something's blocking your nbd.
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| 09:45 | <rjune> sbalneav, that's retarded, the teacher should have a terminal too.
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| 09:46 | <alkisg> rjune: I'm just going to give them a manual, they're going to do whatever they want, it's their labs.
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| 09:46 | rjune: that's not always feasible
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| 09:46 | <jstephan> sbalneav: waht means something? :-)
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| 09:46 | <sbalneav> rjune: right, because everyone's got *BUCKETS* of money to buy one extra thin client in rjune's little fantasy land.
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| 09:46 | people DO it
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| 09:46 | <alkisg> E.g. if the terminals are celerons @300MHz, and the teacher wants to show some 3d application like google earth, he'll have to use the server
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| 09:46 | <rjune> alkisg, ah, you're not it, you're a vendor.
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| 09:47 | <alkisg> rjune: no, I'm just writing a manual to give them basic installation instructions...
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| 09:47 | <Blinny> Jeez automount of usb sticks is a big PITA when trying to use gparted
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| 09:47 | <sbalneav> jstephan: Check that you haven't got a firewall blocking the root nbd ports on the server, or that you haven't got some ports shut down on a managed switch.
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| 09:47 | <rjune> sbalneav, the purpose of terminals is to save buckets of money, hence they're inexpensive and easy to maintain. I also believe in eating your own dogfood
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| 09:48 | <jstephan> sbalneav: well its starts to bbot, and i got this ubuntu slpash, so shuld it really be blocked?
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| 09:49 | <alkisg> rjune: we're talking about converting old labs to LTSP with a badget of 500€ for each lab (= the money for the new server)
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| 09:49 | <sbalneav> rjune: many, MANY ltsp installations are implemented without BUYING anything, rather simply re-using hardware that's there. I'm just saying I've seen it happen, and it's out there. So the graphics performance DOES matter to people on the server, sometimes.
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| 09:50 | jstephan: it's not starting to boot, it's blocking right at the mount of nbd, it's only got the kernel down from tftp at that point.
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| 09:50 | <Gadi> sbalneav: this is a virtualbox error
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| 09:50 | I have had it, as well
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| 09:50 | <jstephan> http://picpaste.de/failure_1.png maybe this shows better
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| 09:50 | <sbalneav> Oh, ok, didn't look too closely
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| 09:50 | <Gadi> usually helps if I cold-boot the client
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| 09:50 | <jstephan> Gadi: what did you do?
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| 09:50 | <Gadi> but not always
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| 09:51 | <alkisg> I have this error on one of my labs, and it continues booting fine.
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| 09:51 | <sbalneav> jstephan: does it boot with a REAL terminal?
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| 09:51 | <Gadi> ogra once told me there's a magic word to pass it
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| 09:51 | but I am not sure what it is
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| 09:51 | <sbalneav> If so, then I don't care about virtualbot.
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| 09:51 | box
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| 09:51 | <jstephan> sbalneav: well, havent tried, good point
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| 09:52 | <Gadi> jstephan: did you try to google the error in quotes + virtualbox?
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| 09:53 | perhaps google knows the magic word
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| 09:53 | * Gadi tried please - but that didnt go over well | |
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| 09:57 | <jstephan> Gadi: one entry, nice but not helpfull :-)
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| 10:30 | <Blinny> Gadi: One more for you - try plugging in a local device with a swap partition - ltspfs will try to mount but fail, but still appear to have mounted
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| 10:32 | <Gadi> Blinny: the fix I pushed should care for that, as well
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| 10:32 | <Blinny> Bully!
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| 10:33 | <Gadi> basically, if it fails to mount, it tells the system to remove the ltspfs mount
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| 10:33 | <Blinny> Dig.
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| 10:33 | Should I remove the bug report or..?
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| 10:33 | <Gadi> if you want to try it, I'll paste the diff
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| 10:35 | <Blinny> I've got 16 people logged in right now -- better not try it at the moment.
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| 10:36 | <Gadi> ok
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| 11:35 | <warren> Gadi: pong
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| 11:37 | <Gadi> warren: I responded to ur email wrt geode
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| 11:37 | (after I pinged u)
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| 11:44 | <sbalneav> OK all, go to linux.com, and comment on the K12 story! warren! Make some noise WHOOOOOOOOO LTSP ROCKS!!!one11!
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| 11:44 | <warren> fuck
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| 11:44 | they were supposed to interview me about it
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| 11:44 | ltsppbot has quit IRC | |
| 11:45 | <sbalneav> Well, go there anyway :)
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| 11:47 | <warren> sbalneav: I really wouldn't have mentioned SuSE in that list. Have you actually looked at what SuSE is doing?
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| 11:47 | <warren> sbalneav: SuSE is going down a different path that might even be better, but it is decidedly a fork that confusingly uses the LTSP name.
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| 11:47 | sbalneav: and they continue to give nothing back to us
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| 11:48 | <nubae> they say its because they can't
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| 11:48 | <sbalneav> They haven't given us any patches?
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| 11:49 | <warren> sbalneav: almost zero that were usable to upstream
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| 11:49 | <Gadi> You'll find the LTSP crowd in #ltsp on freenode to be a happy go lucky bunch, and lots of fun to be with.
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| 11:49 | come now, people
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| 11:49 | get happy
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| 11:49 | and go lucky
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| 11:49 | <sbalneav> I *AM* happy!
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| 11:49 | <Gadi> are u go lucky?
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| 11:50 | <sbalneav> Well, it was either that or call us an "inconsolte lot of beer drinkers and lobster eaters"
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| 11:50 | <warren> and lobster brain eater....
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| 11:50 | <sbalneav> But one day my mom might want to get on the internet, and I'm trying hard not to leave a bad impression :)
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| 11:51 | I'm pretty lucky, I think.
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| 11:51 | I get to hang out with a bunch of really cool people a few times a year...
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| 11:51 | ogra has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:51 | <sbalneav> I help out hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people world wide.
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| 11:52 | I want for nothing. I have a full belly and 4 walls around me
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| 11:52 | Geez, what the heck else can I ask for out of life?
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| 11:53 | Yup. I'm lucky
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| 11:53 | so I am, happy go lucky
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| 11:53 | johnny has quit IRC | |
| 11:53 | <Gadi> whew
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| 11:53 | that means we've maintained the integrity of the internet
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| 11:53 | :)
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| 11:53 | johnny has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:54 | <sbalneav> Well there's a strictly enforced rule, you know. "No lying on the internet"
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| 11:54 | We all took the oath when we got our accounts, after all.
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| 11:55 | * sbalneav raises right hand | |
| 11:55 | <sbalneav> "I solomly swear...."
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| 11:55 | prolly spelt that wrong
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| 11:55 | solomnly
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| 11:59 | <nubae> solemnly
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| 12:17 | <Blinny> http://media.serious-internet.biz/serious_internet/images/lulz/2008/05/01/2a130787818bfe91f6dbb3a58d9b3e3f_640x480.jpg (yes, sfw)
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| 12:18 | I wonder if Wolfram put that one in his book...
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| 12:22 | <warren> Gadi: ping
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| 12:22 | Gadi: Option "NoPanel" "true"
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| 12:22 | Gadi: have you tested it with X.org 1.5 and modern geode versions?
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| 12:22 | Gadi: now I don't have any actual GX2 here to test so I don't actually know...
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| 12:23 | <warren> Gadi: and what exactly are you suggesting regarding XSERVER=?
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| 12:23 | Gadi: how do you avoid two XSERVER lines?
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| 12:24 | <Gadi> warren: if your hack sets XSERVER, then it will use your value of XSERVER when it writes the driver line
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| 12:24 | if your hack writes the driver line, then you may ned up with 2 driver lines
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| 12:24 | so, you should set XSERVER
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| 12:24 | <warren> Gadi: but th driver line would write only once
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| 12:25 | Gadi: oh I see, you edited my quote, that is not good =)
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| 12:25 | <Gadi> :)
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| 12:25 | sorry
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| 12:25 | <warren> ok, committing
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| 12:25 | I plan on tagging in about 2 hours
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| 12:25 | <Gadi> so you just set XSERVER, right?
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| 12:26 | <warren> Gadi: yes
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| 12:26 | <Gadi> good
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| 12:26 | now in terms of the driver option,
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| 12:26 | <warren> Gadi: although
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| 12:26 | <Gadi> that may be a good thing to write directly
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| 12:26 | <warren> Gadi: this script would run after XS98-xserver which means fail
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| 12:27 | <Gadi> so it doesnt get overwritten by an lts.conf var
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| 12:27 | <warren> should I set it to XS97?
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| 12:27 | <Gadi> what did you name ur script?
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| 12:27 | <warren> XS98-xserver-LONGER-NAME
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| 12:27 | <Gadi> ah
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| 12:27 | <warren> XS97 ten?
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| 12:27 | then
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| 12:27 | <Gadi> yeah, I would put hacks in the middle
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| 12:28 | so, XS97 is better
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| 12:28 | that give XS98-xserver a chance to override it
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| 12:28 | and set it
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| 12:28 | <warren> Gadi: are you sure Option "NoPanel" "true" is needed with the xorg 1.5 and modern geode driver?
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| 12:28 | <Gadi> well, actually just set it
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| 12:28 | warren: it is on my hardware
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| 12:28 | <warren> why?
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| 12:28 | <Gadi> because the BIOS reports the presence of a panel
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| 12:29 | it is a BIOS issue for me, but the option would simply always force the absence of a panel
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| 12:29 | hmm...
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| 12:29 | ur right
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| 12:29 | maybe lets keep that out for now
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| 12:29 | <warren> if you ship it, you should add your own hack file
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| 12:29 | <Gadi> Ill add my own hack for it
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| 12:29 | agreed
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| 12:30 | warren: does your script check if XSERVER is empty?
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| 12:30 | your hack that is
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| 12:30 | before setting it
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| 12:30 | I think that would be the friendly way of doing it
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| 12:31 | [ -z "$XSERVER" ] && XSERVER="geode"
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| 12:31 | <warren> Gadi: I wouldn't bother with [ -z "$XSERVER" ]
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| 12:32 | <Gadi> why?
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| 12:32 | <warren> Gadi: if the previous lspci conditional is true, then you can't possibly have anything else.
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| 12:32 | <Gadi> but, suppose someone is troubleshooting and wants to set XSERVER=vesa
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| 12:32 | <warren> damn you
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| 12:32 | * warren pushes again | |
| 12:32 | <Gadi> hehe
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| 12:32 | sorry
| |
| 12:33 | * Gadi is neurotic by nature | |
| 12:33 | <warren> in my experience, vesa has never worked on any geode for me
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| 12:33 | <Gadi> (sounds like a Jewish rock band)
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| 12:33 | <ogra> jiddish metal ?
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| 12:33 | <Gadi> ogra!!!
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| 12:33 | surfs up!
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| 12:33 | <ogra> just on my way to the smoking area ...
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| 12:33 | bbs
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| 12:34 | <warren> Gadi: shit, is it really -z and not -n?
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| 12:34 | <Gadi> -z = empty, -n = not empty
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| 12:34 | <warren> oh
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| 12:34 | ok
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| 12:34 | * warren driving now | |
| 12:34 | <warren> bbl
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| 12:35 | warren has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:35 | <warren> whoa. FSF files suit against Cisco
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| 12:35 | http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/11/1745254
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| 13:38 | * vagrantc would put the whole geode block in if [ -z "$XSERVER" ] ; then ... | |
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| 13:39 | * ogra would fix geode :P | |
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| 13:41 | <stgraber> ogra: patches are welcome :) looks like it's not that easy ...
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| 17:00 | * vagrantc is noticing a problem with LDM_LOGING_TIMEOUT and LDM_AUTOLOGIN | |
| 17:01 | * vagrantc tries plain old LDM_GUESTLOGIN | |
| 17:01 | <vagrantc> LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT, that is.
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| 17:07 | so, specifying LDM_USERNAME causes problems with LDM_GUESTLOGIN, LDM_AUTOLOGIN and LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT
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| 17:07 | the weirdest is when it logs in, but the greeter is still running... so the window manager starts to manage it as a window...
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| 18:15 | <stgraber> warren: so, tagging ltsp ? (/me is actually waiting to package the same version for Ubuntu)
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| 18:16 | <warren> stgraber: i'm doing testing now
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| 18:16 | <stgraber> ok
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| 18:23 | <Ryan52> vagrantc, erm, what? did you get it figured out? if not, I'll look at it...
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| 18:25 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: haven't figured it out yet.
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| 18:25 | <Ryan52> okay, I'll look then.
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| 18:26 | ugh. either gmail is broken or my internet is, because I can't check my email through mutt or the web interface :(
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| 18:29 | <nubae> its not gmail :-)
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| 18:30 | <warren> hmm
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| 18:30 | login is failing
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| 18:30 | X dies
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| 18:31 | oh damn, this might be dbus related
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| 18:31 | brb
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| 18:31 | rebooting
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| 18:35 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: gah. i can't figure it out. works fine from virtualbox, just not on real hardware.
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| 18:36 | <Ryan52> hrm...and you've tried with multiple thin clients?
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| 18:36 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: it has failed with two different thin clients...
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| 18:36 | one of which... might be other issues.
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| 18:37 | <Ryan52> maybe it's a race condition then?
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| 18:37 | that seems unrelated, but..
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| 18:38 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: the weirdest is when the greeter keeps running even though login suceeds...
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| 18:39 | warren has quit IRC | |
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| 18:43 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: i'll test one of those terminals with just defaulting to the terminal...
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| 18:44 | <warren> damn, login failed again
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| 18:45 | ssh login succeeds
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| 18:46 | but soemthing else fails
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| 18:46 | then X restarts
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| 18:47 | this is the first time I've run it since gadi's merge
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| 18:48 | <warren> even failsafe fails
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| 18:48 | <Ryan52> what did gadi merge?
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| 18:49 | <warren> Ryan52: all of the screen-session.d stuf
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| 18:50 | I guess that isn't the cause though, because that happens before X runs
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| 18:50 | I have X, ldm, login to account, just dies after that
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| 18:52 | <Ryan52> ya, that's what I was gonna say.
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| 18:54 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: so, i tried again with one of the terminals acting wonky ... with LDM_USERNAME set, it borks. without it set, it works fine (using the hostname and such)
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| 18:54 | <warren> Ryan52: ooh
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| 18:55 | Ryan52: LDM_SYSTEMWIDE_DMRC=/somewhere/somethig
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| 18:55 | Ryan52: if that thing its pointed out doesn't exist, you login and it dies
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| 18:55 | <Ryan52> really??
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| 18:55 | warren, it shouldn't.
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| 18:55 | <vagrantc> if it's missing entirely?
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| 18:55 | i.e. LDM_SYSTEMWIDE_DMRC isn't set?
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| 18:56 | <warren> vagrantc: set in my case, I typoed it
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| 18:56 | Ryan52: you do have ldm-dialog to tell the user it doesn't exist
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| 18:56 | <Ryan52> warren, it's not doing error checking, so I don't see how it could have died..
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| 18:56 | <warren> Ryan52: perhaps GLOBAL is better than SYSTEMWIDE?
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| 18:56 | <Ryan52> if [ -n "$LDM_SYSTEMWIDE_DMRC" ]; then do_scp $LDM_SERVER:$LDM_SYSTEMWIDE_DMRC $TEMP_SYSTEM_DMRC
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| 18:56 | fi
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| 18:57 | if do_scp gives an error, it will just go on it's merry way, using the empty file that mktemp created.
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| 18:57 | warren, ya, I know that the dmrc stuff needs more error checking, and I'll do that soonish.
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| 18:57 | soonish means in the next few days in the case :)
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| 18:57 | <warren> LDM_SYSTEMWIDE_DMRC or LDM_GLOBAL_DMRC?
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| 18:58 | global sounds better to me...
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| 18:58 | <Ryan52> the latter is shorter, so ya, go with that :)
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| 18:58 | <warren> want me to rename it or will you?
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| 18:59 | <Ryan52> you can :)
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| 19:00 | <Ryan52> I just set this in my lts.conf: LDM_SYSTEMWIDE_DMRC=/blah/blah/blah
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| 19:00 | and it logged me in fine..
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| 19:01 | (and /blah/blah/blah does not exist on my system :p)
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| 19:01 | <warren> Ryan52: TEMP_SYSTEM_DMRC, should I rename this too?
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| 19:02 | <Ryan52> I wouldn't, but you can..
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| 19:02 | * vagrantc would | |
| 19:02 | * Ryan52 doesn't care much about variable names when they aren't exposed to the user | |
| 19:03 | * vagrantc considers coders a different kind of user | |
| 19:03 | * Ryan52 gives in and agrees | |
| 19:04 | <warren> pushing, please review that
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| 19:10 | <warren> stgraber: ok, ltsp and ldm seem OK... if you really need to tag go ahead
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| 19:12 | there is the possibility that I need to do more changes after testing further
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| 19:14 | stgraber: ltspfs too
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| 19:14 | I gotta drive now, be back in ~2 hours
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| 19:15 | <Ryan52> what's up with the wombat part of his cloak?
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| 19:16 | <vagrantc> i really don't get how specifying LDM_USERNAME would be causing problems ...
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| 19:16 | unless it's something like lack or presence of a trailing newline?
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| 19:17 | <Ryan52> works for me on my "thin" client :)
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| 19:17 | <vagrantc> works for me on my virtualbox thin client...
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| 19:17 | with the same server.
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| 19:18 | i do notice both those machines take an inordinatel long time to get DHCP...
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| 19:18 | maybe particularly bad network lag somehow triggering a race condition?
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| 19:21 | * Ryan52 goes to ping flood his testing network and will try again | |
| 19:22 | * ogra shudders about LDM_SYSTEMWIDE_DMRC | |
| 19:22 | <Ryan52> worked fine.
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| 19:23 | <vagrantc> user's ~/.dmrc takes precedence, yes?
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| 19:23 | <ogra> why dont you just use the servers defaults (which is the normal fallback atm) ... if you want something changed systemwide, change it systemwide
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| 19:23 | <Ryan52> vagrantc, yes, they do.
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| 19:23 | ogra, because warren has no way to change that from GNOME.
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| 19:24 | ogra, he requested the feature because of that..
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| 19:24 | <ogra> sigh
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| 19:24 | why would you change it from gnome ?
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| 19:24 | with that change root has to create a systemwide dmrc, how is that different from changing systemwide defaults ?
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| 19:25 | <vagrantc> on systems with no way to change systemwide defaults... ?
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| 19:25 | * ogra doesnt get the difference beyond the fact it adds an ugly nonstandard file | |
| 19:25 | <Ryan52> there is no way to change the systemwide default.
| |
| 19:25 | according to warren.
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| 19:25 | for warren.
| |
| 19:25 | * ogra doesnt belive that | |
| 19:25 | * vagrantc is happy that it's easy to change the systemwide defaults on Debian :) | |
| 19:25 | <ogra> yeah
| |
| 19:25 | that seems really insane
| |
| 19:26 | but well, i'm no RH user so i cant really judge ...
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| 19:26 | * vagrantc flees to aikido | |
| 19:26 | <ogra> but to me that rather looks like an error in the design of the underlying system that should be fixed instead of adding a hack to ltsp for it
| |
| 19:26 | anyway ...
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| 19:26 | <Ryan52> cya
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| 19:27 | ogra, ask warren about that one, I'm just teh code monkey :p
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| 19:28 | <ogra> yeah, i wont complain further, its just pretty ugly to not fix the actual bug :)
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| 19:29 | but the bug is probably that RH isnt based on debian anyway *g*
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| 19:29 | <rjune_> ogra!
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| 19:29 | howdy mate
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| 19:29 | <ogra> hey
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| 19:29 | <Ryan52> hehe
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| 19:29 | <rjune_> gots to go back to eating.
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| 19:55 | <rjune_> ogra: your day almost done?
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| 21:07 | <warren> stgraber: ping
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| 21:21 | <warren> stgraber: ok nevermind, I'll just tag all three myself.
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| 22:04 | <Sarten-X> anybody awake tonight?
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| 22:04 | <vagrantc> !question
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| 22:04 | <ltspbot`> vagrantc: "question" is if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can. please also mention the linux distro and release you're using. :)
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| 22:05 | <Sarten-X> I'm on my way to Africa to help install some new donated computers. I'm looking at Edubuntu, and I know nothing about LTSP.
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| 22:05 | one of the concerns with the machines is a lack of hard drive space, since they're all donated
| |
| 22:06 | I was told LTSP would be the way to go, but like I said, I know nothing about it
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| 22:07 | <mistik1> unless you need something specific ltsp.org is a good place to start
| |
| 22:07 | If you can setup an environment to play with even better
| |
| 22:07 | <Sarten-X> the other major concern is the lack of any kind of internet connection where I'm headed. There's no Internet connection to the site, so any extra packages will need to be transported by hand.
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| 22:08 | is there a list of what's needed? I looked at what I could find on the LTSP site, but I'm not much more enlightened than before
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| 22:08 | and i'm afraid my play environment isn't working out, either
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| 22:10 | <mistik1> Well if you are going with edubuntu you should not need much more than you install CDs
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| 22:11 | <Sarten-X> just the alternative installer, and the edubuntu add-on, right?
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| 22:11 | <mistik1> If i were you I would grab a copy of vmware server, install a master server and a few clients
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| 22:11 | <Sarten-X> oo
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| 22:11 | <vagrantc> virtualbox-ose is also very easy to use
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| 22:11 | <Sarten-X> hadn't thought about VMs
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| 22:11 | <mistik1> vmware can boot via PXE
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| 22:11 | <vagrantc> so can virtualbox
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| 22:12 | <mistik1> cool
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| 22:12 | * vagrantc does 95% of LTSP development with virtualbox | |
| 22:12 | <mistik1> sorry but the last time I tried virtualbox it left me frustrated so I could not personally recommend it
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| 22:12 | <Sarten-X> heh
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| 22:13 | I've used virtualbox for a while... never PXE, though
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| 22:13 | <mistik1> that may well have changed though
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| 22:13 | <vagrantc> you simply shift network boot up in the boot menu :)
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| 22:13 | <Sarten-X> ...boot menu? in the VM?
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| 22:13 | <vagrantc> i've been using virtualbox since 1.5 versions ... currently 1.6
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| 22:13 | <mistik1> yes
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| 22:13 | <Sarten-X> I'm gonna have to play with it more
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| 22:14 | <mistik1> they have a BIOS
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| 22:14 | <Sarten-X> well yes... i've just never played with it
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| 22:15 | <mistik1> vagrantc: When i was trying it I had no time to bend it to my will in the usual way either, I had work to get done at time :)
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| 22:15 | I did so much promise though
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| 22:16 | s/so/see
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| 22:16 | <vagrantc> mistik1: yeah, i pretty much waited till it had a backport to debian stable, and i've been hooked ever since :)
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| 22:16 | so it had already gone through a good amount of testing
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| 22:16 | <Sarten-X> is there anything special I should do to the donated machines?
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| 22:17 | like move as many hard drives to one as I can?
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| 22:17 | <vagrantc> make sure they network boot before shipping them
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| 22:17 | Sarten-X: carry hard drives in your personal luggage with lots of padding.
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| 22:17 | <Sarten-X> I don't touch them until I'm there... they're coming from another volunteer
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| 22:18 | <vagrantc> i know a project that shipped stuff to uganda and 99% of the hard drives failed in shipping
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| 22:18 | so diskless terminals are a good idea :)
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| 22:19 | <mistik1> Sarten-X: do you know if all the machines support PXE booting?
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| 22:19 | <Sarten-X> good to know about hard drives
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| 22:19 | I'll send a note to the other volunteer
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| 22:19 | <vagrantc> they're sensitive to shock
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| 22:19 | <mistik1> if you are unsure it may be a good idea to create an etherboot build environment on your personal station
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| 22:20 | <Sarten-X> I'll also try and get her to check the PXE abilities, but she's not really a computer person
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| 22:21 | etherboot?
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| 22:21 | <mistik1> if I were you I would setup that etherboot environment and travel with a bunch of floppies :)
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| 22:22 | <Sarten-X> what be etherboot?
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| 22:22 | a floppy disk to force PXE?
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| 22:23 | <mistik1> etherboot.org
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| 22:27 | <Sarten-X> so... one floppy image for all supported cards? or would I have to rebuild it for each card I run across?
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| 22:32 | <davidj> Sarten-X: A floppy won't hold all of the supported card drivers.
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| 22:32 | <Sarten-X> ah
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| 22:33 | <davidj> If you have the budget, buy a stack of replacement network cards before you go.
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| 22:33 | <Sarten-X> i don't quite have the budget for that, i'm afraid... heck, I'm hoping they even have NICs
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| 22:34 | <mistik1> Sarten-X: They reason why I said prepare for etherboot is in case the machines have NICs but are not PXE bootable
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| 22:34 | <davidj> http://www.disklessworkstations.com/cgi-bin/web/100011.html?id=2P9TP3mC $16 apiece.
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| 22:35 | If they don't have nics, ltsp won't work.
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| 22:35 | <Sarten-X> figured that
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| 22:35 | <mistik1> What I used to do was remove the front plate from the floppy drive and slide it inside the case and block the slot
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| 22:35 | on the floppy I would put and etherboot image for that box :)
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| 22:35 | <davidj> Sarten-X: Call Diskless workstations and ask if the have anything less expensive. Explain your situation and see what they can come up with.
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| 22:35 | <Sarten-X> ah
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| 22:36 | <mistik1> tricks of the days before PXE was everywhere and working with low budget
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| 22:36 | <Sarten-X> mistik1: sounds like a viable option
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| 22:36 | davidj: thanks... I'll do that
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| 22:36 | <vagrantc> gPXE actually supports a large number of drivers and fits on a floppy
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| 22:36 | <davidj> The only problem with etherboot is that you have to make an image for each nic. Even cards with the same part number sometimes have different chips on them.
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| 22:36 | <mistik1> how are you davidj
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| 22:37 | <davidj> I am well. How's carpentry these days?
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| 22:37 | <mistik1> davidj: Well low budget needs to be handled with more time commitment in my experience
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| 22:37 | vagrantc has quit IRC | |
| 22:37 | <mistik1> davidj: No carpentry at all of late
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| 22:38 | I've been coding only for just over a year now
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| 22:38 | <Sarten-X> the budget's my biggest issue... second is the complete lack of network. As it is, all my budget's going to go toward just getting a LAN up
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| 22:38 | <davidj> Really? Congrats! What kind of work are you doing?
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| 22:39 | <mistik1> Well a lot of web applications and such
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| 22:39 | <davidj> Sarten-X: I have a 24-port hub you can have. It can be cascaded to a 48-port.
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| 22:39 | Any web design work?
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| 22:39 | <mistik1> Asset tracking, content filtering and such
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| 22:39 | just a little
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| 22:40 | <Sarten-X> davidj: I'll take it
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| 22:40 | <mistik1> Been doing much more web apps vs web pages
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| 22:40 | <davidj> I need a website for my business, and I'm too busy to build it. Are you within my budget?
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| 22:40 | <mistik1> I dont know, am I?
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| 22:40 | :)
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| 22:41 | davidj: Email me what your needs are
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| 22:41 | awilliams@tsiware.com
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| 22:42 | include time frame in that
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| 22:42 | I have a great deal to do before the new year so time is critical
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| 22:55 | <davidj> OK
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| 22:56 | I simpathize, I've got a lot to do by 5pm tomorrow ;-)
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| 22:57 | <mistik1> Its amazing to me that people are willing to wait years for Microsoft to add a feature or fix something and these same folks wants it done right now from the like of us
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| 22:58 | Maybe is was a mistake to be reliable :)
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| 23:02 | davidj: what do you think of this site? www.tsiware.com
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| 23:04 | <davidj> looking now
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| 23:05 | <mistik1> that's what we did with drupal
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| 23:05 | hpsd48.ab.ca we also did with drupal
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| 23:06 | <davidj> It looks really good. The flash is a bit much, but I'm funny that way, I'd rather not have things buzzing around on the screen.
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| 23:06 | That site looks really good.
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| 23:07 | <davidj> They both seem to take a long time to load.
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| 23:07 | <mistik1> davidj: I understand, the flash works well for us there
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| 23:07 | <davidj> Is that Drupal or the site?
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| 23:08 | I see how it does, it looks really good.
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| 23:08 | <mistik1> which one takes long?
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| 23:08 | thanks
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| 23:08 | <davidj> hpsd takes about a minute
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| 23:08 | <mistik1> I have been noticing that
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| 23:08 | <davidj> I'm not knocking the site, just flash in general.
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| 23:08 | <rjune_> davidj: howdy
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| 23:08 | <davidj> For my site, I'd prefer something that loads really quickly.
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| 23:09 | Hey!
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| 23:09 | It's old home week. How's the family?
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| 23:09 | <rjune_> good
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| 23:09 | <mistik1> I dont host it so I dont know, I do know a lot telco work is being done in that area too so it may be a bad route
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| 23:09 | * davidj is falling asleep at the keyboard | |
| 23:09 | <mistik1> heh
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| 23:09 | <davidj> tsiware.com looks really good.
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| 23:10 | hpsd hasn't finished loading yet.
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| 23:10 | <rjune_> mistik1: if you don't have time, I'm always looking for work.
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| 23:10 | <mistik1> rjune_: noted
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| 23:11 | <davidj> I asked mistik1 first.
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| 23:11 | I hadn't thought about asking you, I should have.
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| 23:11 | <rjune_> davidj: hence the reason I told him that if he didn't have time, I'm always looking for work
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| 23:12 | ogra: how was the booze?
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| 23:12 | <davidj> I'm going to bed now. 'night, everyone.
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| 23:12 | <rjune_> night
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| 23:12 | <mistik1> g`night davidj
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| 23:12 | <Sarten-X> g'night
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| 23:13 | <stgraber> warren: sorry, was out for some food. If your question was about tagging+releasing, I'd have answered "go ahead" :)
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| 23:20 | <Sarten-X> ok
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| 23:20 | here goes the edubuntu install...
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