IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Channel log from 16 January 2008 (all times are UTC)

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04:11	<XTaran> Hi.
04:16	Anyone knows how a process can distinguish if it's running on the ltsp-client or the chroot on the ltsp-server? Had problems after the cron update since I then had two crons on the server running, one normal and one in the chroot.
04:37	<johnny> there is nothing running in the chroot perse
04:37	but you mean one of your clients had a cron?
04:37	you can filter the output of the pslist to the users that are running
04:37	ps list
04:37	rather
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04:53	<XTaran> johnny: Software updates are made inside the chroot on server (in case of Debian running apt-get), aren't they?
04:53	<johnny> no
04:53	<XTaran> johnny: Ok.
04:53	<johnny> mods are only made by an admin who chroot's into the chroot
04:53	and then rebuilds the image afterwords
04:54	<XTaran> There is no image. There is an NFS root.
04:54	<johnny> the image is distributed to the clients, who unpack it
04:54	i think the way it works with nfs is the same
04:54	<XTaran> Hmmm, maybe that's a Debian specific issue?
04:54	<johnny> doubtful
04:55	nothing shold be left running if the users are logged out in any case
04:55	<XTaran> johnny: I'll check. THanks for your time!
04:55	<johnny> there are issues with that..
04:55	but not with cron
04:55	afaik anyways
04:55	people can use screen
04:56	<XTaran> johnny: Has nothing to do with users, just with the way the NFS root for the clients is updated.
04:56	<johnny> hmm.. i never updated the images except on the server
04:56	chroot into it
04:56	<XTaran> johnny: Yeah, that's what we do. And what caused the problems.
04:56	<johnny> nothing should be running in the chroot tho ?
04:57	* johnny tries to imagine
04:57	<johnny> hmm.. i got my ltsp box ..
04:57	<XTaran> johnny: Well, if you make the updates, apt-get & co are running inside the chroot. And may have left over daemon processes like cron.
04:57	<johnny> i'm about to find out
04:57	yay virtualbox
04:58	it's ubuntu, so close enough
04:58	<XTaran> johnny: No hurry, it's just that I want to find out if we do something wrong or if this is a flaw by design which needs to be workarounded. :)
04:58	<johnny> gimme 10 minutes..
04:59	<XTaran> johnny: :)
04:59	<johnny> i love ltsp
04:59	i also love learning about ltsp
04:59	i remember the problem i have with firefox, but that's only with the booted clients
04:59	evil thing
04:59	going to test firefox3
04:59	to see if that solves it
05:00	<XTaran> Firefox makes a lot of hassles in managed environments...
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05:02	<johnny> aha.. silly me
05:02	yes.. i can see something running in that manner
05:02	but.. apt-get should clean up after itself properly
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05:02	<johnny> i totally disregarded one aspect of the chroot
05:03	plus i initially thought of it as from the clients for some silly reason.. maybe cuz it's 5am
05:04	perhaps i'm too used to my vbox now :)
05:04	<XTaran> johnny: Yeah, usually nothing is left, just in case of updated daemons they are usualy restarted after the update and are then running inside the chroot.
05:05	It took us about four days of nightly broken cron jobs until we found out, what went wrong. :)
05:06	<johnny> you'd think that apt would figure it out tho.
05:06	what is your cron job like?
05:10	XTaran, what do you use to manage user profiles?
05:10	<XTaran> sorry, had a phone call.
05:10	johnny: The cron restarts another daemon so that this one fetches new config files and this daemon failed for some reasons (no /proc in chroot, etc.)
05:11	<johnny> did you mount proc?
05:11	<XTaran> Not in the chroot, only on the clients
05:12	johnny: The machines only connect to the X server using LDM and XDMC.
05:12	johnny: The server itself is identical to our other managed workstations, just in a 1HE rackmount case and plus LTSP installed.
05:13	<johnny> config files?
05:13	weren't you talking about apt-get ?
05:13	if you chroot into the chroot, you have to mount /proc
05:13	if you don't want apt to spit errors
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05:19	<XTaran> johnny: Hmmm.
05:19	johnny: Yeah, we distribute local config files independently of apt
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05:20	<johnny> what kind of config files?
05:20	maybe you could make debs of them and put them in a local repository
05:20	<XTaran> johnny: Well, apt-get works fine withour /proc here...
05:20	<johnny> sure, but it does spew an error
05:20	also /dev/pts or somethin
05:21	<XTaran> johnny: Not here. :)
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05:21	<johnny> so, about your users? how do you handle their config settings?
05:21	err ~/ stuff
05:21	<XTaran> johnny: In this case the config files for our surveillance tool which services should be watched...
05:22	<johnny> that should run in the chroot??
05:22	<XTaran> johnny: Authentication against LDAP, homes via NFS, the rest via NIS.
05:24	<johnny> sure, but how do you setup the initial homes
05:24	the ones folks get when they first sign in
05:24	<XTaran> johnny: Not at all. :)
05:24	johnny: Ah.
05:24	johnny: They just get an empty $HOME.
05:24	<johnny> wondering, because i've lately been trying to work on the sabayon tool
05:24	what DE do you use?
05:25	<XTaran> johnny: We once had a a template user which was copied to new homes, but this turned out to be horrible, if you needed to update something for all users which haven't modified it by them self. So we switched to reasonable system wide defaults.
05:26	<johnny> you don't have to keep saying my name
05:26	<XTaran> johnny: Hit me, but we use FVWM as Default. If the user wants something else, he'll get it, but if the user breaks it, the user has to fix itself. :)
05:26	<johnny> if you used gnome, i'd recommend the sabayon tool
05:26	to at least help me uncover more bugs and stuff :)
05:27	<XTaran> johnny: GNOME and KDE are not managable consistently over a long time.
05:27	<johnny> their supposed to be :)
05:27	they're*
05:27	you're supposed to be able to make certain settings mandantory
05:27	<XTaran> Yeah, but we once tried to manually patch the gnome defaults and failed.
05:28	<johnny> and unchanged
05:28	via gconf
05:28	<ogra> thats what gconf is for :)
05:28	<johnny> yes ogra..
05:28	hi!
05:28	<ogra> how did you change them ?
05:28	<johnny> anything you're lookin for out of sabayon?
05:28	<XTaran> johnny: But I already read about sabayon, too, maybe we should have a look at it....
05:28	<ogra> theer are ways that you should use and others you shouldnt
05:28	<johnny> there are some bugs in it XTaran but i'm currently helping out with it
05:28	going to fix some i personally have in my ltsp install
05:29	i removed .config from the directories to ignore, and added a couple others
05:29	some apps still do bad things in .config tho :(
05:29	like banshee has .config/banshee/temp
05:29	:(
05:29	<ogra> well, nobody forces gtk apps to use gconf
05:30	(unless they are real gnome apps)
05:30	<XTaran> ogra: Editing some of the files in the apps directory. Wanted to change the default PDF viewer.
05:30	<johnny> that's done in gconf
05:30	<ogra> XTaran, well, that gets overwritten during updates :)
05:30	<johnny> should be anyways
05:30	<XTaran> Ic.
05:30	How do I edit system wide gconf settings?
05:30	<ogra> you should set gconf keys on /usr/share/gconf/defaults files
05:31	s/on/in
05:31	<XTaran> 'kay
05:31	Oh, nice, that looks like runparts! Cool, thx!
05:31	<ogra> create a file with a very high sequence nuber (so it overrides all the lower ones)
05:31	there just put your gconf keys and their values n
05:32	s/n/in
05:32	<johnny> should be a way to set it different for different users tho
05:32	groups of users rather
05:32	<ogra> well, thats a sabayon task
05:32	<XTaran> ogra: Yeah, runparts is very useful and easy to use. :)
05:32	<johnny> truly :)
05:32	<ogra> i'm not sure gconf suffices for mime types though
05:32	<johnny> ogra, so.. yes.. anything you want out of sabayon?
05:33	any specific bugs you are most interested in?
05:33	<ogra> johnny, yeah, a lot :)
05:33	but nothing we can solve now
05:33	<johnny> well, i'd like to get the most irritating bugfixes resolved
05:33	<ogra> having it working as advertised would be my taget for hardy
05:33	having groups support and all the fun stuff whould be my target for hardy+1
05:33	<johnny> truly.. sadly i didn't get my gnome svn account until too late
05:34	<ogra> well, we can patch the package to our liking
05:34	<johnny> at least i obsoleted a good portion of your current patches ..
05:34	<ogra> we should get the latest upstream in during the next two weeks though
05:35	i'm sadly way to busy with other stuff atm
05:35	<johnny> i'll do what i can
05:35	i'm still n00b with python and pygtk
05:35	<ogra> (like moving ltsp to the ubuntu CDs and make edubuntu-server go away)
05:35	<johnny> doesn't seem to hard
05:35	that's cool
05:35	i use ubuntu now
05:35	not edubuntu
05:35	<ogra> yeah
05:36	thats the future :)
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05:36	<johnny> well.. i'll be testing stuff for sure
05:36	<ogra> edubuntu will only be an educational addon CD
05:36	<johnny> lemme know.. i got virtual box now
05:36	<ogra> good, that helps a lot
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05:37	<johnny> i'm testing clients with firefox 3 very soon, sadly.. no beta2 deb yet even in debian
05:37	i can wait tho
05:37	* ogra is starting a virtualbox test install of the nightly iso build as first thing in the morning every day :)
05:37	<johnny> firefox 3 is particularly nasty
05:37	err
05:37	firefox 2
05:37	see if firefox3 is an easy fix
05:37	it's been stable on my gentoo and ubuntu desktops for weeks
05:37	<ogra> the beta2 should be in hardy already afaik
05:37	<johnny> yes..
05:38	<ogra> i started using ff 3.0 in gutsy :)
05:38	<johnny> it works great
05:38	<ogra> no biggies so far
05:38	<johnny> have you tried it on any thin clients/
05:38	<ogra> i dont like the new typeahead stuff in the url bar though
05:38	sure
05:38	<johnny> any less problems?
05:38	<ogra> i currently use it on a LTSP Term 150
05:38	<johnny> or did you not have problems before
05:39	<ogra> no, i didt
05:39	<johnny> hmm
05:39	<ogra> apart from taht one gallery website with the huge pics
05:39	<johnny> we run the terms all day
05:39	no logouts
05:39	and even when people do logout
05:39	<ogra> me too
05:39	<johnny> or shut up the terms
05:39	firefox thinks it's already running
05:40	and is hanging out in the background
05:40	<ogra> is it ?
05:40	<johnny> yes
05:40	<ogra> hmm
05:40	<johnny> i don't know why tho :(
05:40	<ogra> thats bad
05:40	i dont see that here
05:40	<johnny> hoping firefox3 solves it
05:40	seems like it could
05:40	worth a test anyways
05:40	<ogra> do you use nfs homedirs or something like that ?
05:40	<johnny> no
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05:40	<johnny> stock ltsp setup
05:40	<ogra> hmm
05:40	<johnny> with sabayon profiles
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05:41	<johnny> simple ones
05:41	well i guess it is non stock in the sense that i use dnsmasq, but nothing else is different
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05:52	<autodita1> hi, everybody! i'm looking for a script to end stale user processes after user's logout. i think i saw a post on an ubuntu forum, but i can't seem to find it anywhere. Does anyone know where to find such a script?
05:54	<ogra> look for #xterminator
05:54	s/#//
05:57	<autodita1> ogra, thanks! I think I'll try gnome-watchdog first.
05:58	<ogra> not sure how/if that works
05:58	i know a lot of people in here use xterminator though
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06:02	<autodita1> gnome-watchdog starts with a users session, nohups and checks for a running gnome-panel. if it doesn't find one, it kills all the processes of the user and ends itself.
06:02	<ogra> ah, sounds a bit saner than just pkill -u $USER
06:03	<autodita1> jepp, sounds sane to me.
06:03	<johnny> SWEET
06:03	<ogra> well, sane would be if it would walk down the processtree and actually only kill apps related to this session
06:04	but its already a better approach
06:04	(even saner would be if the apps just finished correctly :) )
06:04	<johnny> truely
06:05	but most the security system in the distros are due to apps not doing something correctly :)
06:05	or windows for that matter
06:12	* ogra looks if johnny is in #ubuntu-meeting
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07:08	<cliebow__> morning all...my Del server was running rhel3 for the last three years withot a squeek..a week ago i put gutsy on and since have problems with megaraid apparently crapping out soall commands result in input/output error..anyone have a handle on this ?
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07:59	<linux2> anyone around?
07:59	I am having trouble getting ltsp to work
07:59	as usual
07:59	it just gets to:
07:59	Trying to load: pxelinux.cfg/01-00-d0-b7-a8-81-1c
08:00	any ideas?
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08:07	<Blinny> It looks to me like the MAC address is a filename specified in your dhcpd configuration file.
08:10	<linux2> Blinny: what should i do to fix it?
08:10	i have had this problem before
08:12	<cliebow__> linux2:pasteyour dhcpd.conf to pastebot.ltsp.org..
08:12	<Blinny> linux2: pastebin your dhcpd.conf file. Also, what distro/flavor are you running?
08:13	<linux2> Blinny: debian etch
08:13	* Blinny hifives cliebow__
08:13	<cliebow__> Hey!!!
08:13	<ltsppbot> "linux2" pasted "dhcpd.conf" (17 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/418
08:14	<linux2> Blinny: there ya go
08:14	i like how ltsppbot posts the link here
08:14	nice touch
08:14	<cliebow__> linux2: what is in your folder pxelinux.0?
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08:15	<exodos> cliebow__: pxelinux.cfg i think
08:15	<linux2> cliebow__: you mean /opt/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
08:15	<cliebow__> default?
08:16	<linux2> cliebow__: cause that file does not appear to exist on my server
08:16	<cliebow__> err..like /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0?
08:17	<linux2> pxelinux.0 is a binary file
08:18	<exodos> linux2: there should be also /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg directory
08:18	<linux2> yep i see it
08:19	<Blinny> Kernel boot parameters are specified in pxelinux.cfg/ files
08:19	<linux2> exodos: there is a file called default in it
08:19	DEFAULT vmlinuz ro initrd=initrd.img root=/dev/nfs ip=dhcp
08:19	that is what default has in it
08:19	Blinny: i have had this problem before as well and have never been able to get ltsp to work cause of it
08:20	<exodos> linux2: can you try with different hardware
08:20	<linux2> exodos: this is the third system i have tried it on
08:20	<exodos> or qemu/vmware/...
08:20	<Blinny> It's weird that it's looking for a MAC address inside pxelinux.cfg
08:21	can you try the command ln -s default 01-00-d0-b7-a8-81-1c
08:21	<cliebow__> it is definitely wierd...
08:21	<exodos> Blinny: I think it's normal, check http://syslinux.zytor.com/pxe.php
08:21	<Blinny> linux2: is that the entire dhcpd config file you pasted?
08:22	Huh
08:22	exodos: Apologies. I'm still 4.2 and mine doesn't do that. Thanks for the link - I'll read up.
08:22	<exodos> section HOW TO CONFIGURE PXELINUX
08:22	<linux2> Blinny: yep
08:23	http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto
08:23	following that
08:23	<Blinny> exodos: Sure - but why is it stopping there and not continuing to the other attempts? (ala C00*, default)
08:24	<cliebow__> that is the third pxe Client you have tried?
08:24	<linux2> cliebow__: yep
08:24	all different systems with different hardware
08:24	Blinny: well now it is trying the c00 stuff
08:25	<exodos> linux2: can you put tftp server on different hardware
08:25	<linux2> well i don't know if the tftp server is even working
08:26	<exodos> linux2: install tftp-hpa and try it
08:26	<cliebow__> linux2: se if it is listening with netstat -anp\|grep ":69"
08:26	<linux2> udp 0 0 0.0.0.0:69 0.0.0.0:* 3855/inetd
08:27	<cliebow__> seems golden
08:27	<linux2> #Defaults for tftpd-hpa
08:27	RUN_DAEMON="yes"
08:27	OPTIONS="-l -s /var/lib/tftpboot"
08:27	there is the tftpd-hpa config file
08:29	<cliebow__> long shot but...you hooked up with a crossover..or hub..or switch?
08:29	<exodos> linux2: this file doesn't matter as it looks like you run it from inetd
08:30	<linux2> exodos: well at the end of trying all this it does say: Trying to load: pxelinux.cfg/default
08:31	but just fails in finding it
08:31	<exodos> ok, so it doesn't stop on pxelinux.cfg/01-00-d0-b7-a8-81-1c, but is just slow?
08:32	<linux2> real slow
08:32	i think i know the issue
08:32	<cliebow__> for the heck of it check /etc/inetd.conf..be sure the -s option points to your tftpboot chroot
08:32	<linux2> i do have two network cards in this system
08:32	so it is possible that tftpd is looking on the other nic
08:32	and not the one the pxe system is connected to
08:33	<exodos> linux2: you can try to install tftp-hpa on some station and try to run: `echo "get ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default" \| tftp tftpserver` where tftpserver is hostname or IP of your tftp server
08:34	<cliebow__> ogra:is root-path statement irrelevant using the image?
08:34	<linux2> bash: tftp: command not found
08:34	<exodos> apt-get install tftp-hpa
08:35	<cliebow__> "something" is listening on 69
08:35	<linux2> bash: tftpserver:: command not found
08:35	<exodos> echo "get ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default" \| tftp IP.of.yor.tftpserver
08:36	<linux2> tftp> tftp>
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08:36	<exodos> can you see file called dafault in your current directory?
08:37	<linux2> Jan 16 04:37:00 server1 in.tftpd[4206]: cannot bind to local socket: Address already in use
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08:38	<exodos> linux2: if you want to run tftp server in standalone mode comment out tftp entry in /etc/inetd.conf
08:39	<cliebow__> hmmm.i guess i have trusty openbsd-inetd
08:41	<linux2> uhh this is such a pain
08:41	Jan 16 04:41:05 server1 in.tftpd[4378]: tftp: client does not accept options
08:42	that is what syslog says when i connect to the boot server with PXE
08:42	<cliebow__> for sure it is a pain..
08:43	<PerfDave> linux2: I see that too, but it doesn't stop my systems from using tftp
08:43	<exodos> linux2: Note that the "client does not accept options" message seems to be only a harmless warning, not a sign for error.
08:44	linux2: this if from: http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Troubleshoot_Diskless_Install
08:45	<linux2> exodos: maybe try restarting the system?
08:45	<cliebow__> at least restart inetd
08:46	vagrantc won one this way yesterday
08:46	<linux2> cliebow__: how do you restart it?
08:46	never done it before
08:47	and what about this in my dhcpd.conf... should i have it: next-server 192.168.1.2;
08:47	<cliebow__> in ubuntu it is /etc/init.d/openbsd-inetd restart
08:47	<linux2> ok that was it
08:47	<cliebow__> look in /etc/init.d
08:49	whoa..next-server 192.168.0.ipofyourserver
08:49	<exodos> linux2: I think that your tftp server is working ok couse you have to download pxelinux.0 first to see all those "Trying to load: pxelinux.cfg/01-00-d0-b7-a8-81-1c" messages
08:49	<cliebow__> yeah
08:49	<linux2> cliebow__: well i don't have the next-server line
08:49	but should i have it
08:50	and what should it be anyways
08:50	my server has two ip addresses
08:50	it has the card that is connected to the internet
08:50	10.10.0.150
08:50	<cliebow__> generally eth0...
08:50	<linux2> then the one that is hosting the dhcp 192.168.0.0
08:51	<cliebow__> is "internal"
08:51	yep
08:51	<linux2> so it should be next-server 192.168.0.0?
08:51	<exodos> 192.168.0.0 is network, not client address
08:51	check again
08:51	<cliebow__> no 0.1?
08:52	<linux2> eth3 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:02:E3:1C:7E:43
08:52	inet addr:192.168.0.0 Bcast:192.168.0.255 Mask:255.255.255.0
08:52	<exodos> its wrong
08:52	<linux2> eth3 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:02:E3:1C:7E:43
08:52	inet addr:192.168.0.1 Bcast:192.168.0.255 Mask:255.255.255.0
08:53	that better?
08:53	<exodos> yeah
08:53	<linux2> ok let me try it now
08:53	i still have a feeling it isn't going to work
08:53	but you never know
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08:54	<linux2> oh goody
08:54	its booting
08:54	<exodos> :D
08:54	<Blinny> cheer
08:54	<cliebow__> yip yip yip
08:55	<linux2> well now it stopped booting
08:55	it says: IP-Config: eth0 hardware address 00:a0:cc:da:20:hc mtu 1500 DHCP
08:55	and is just sitting there
08:56	<exodos> restart the dhcp server (??)
08:56	<linux2> humm
08:57	did that
08:57	still nothing
08:57	<cliebow__> appears to be a lite-on chip
08:58	linx2: on the server watch /var/log/messages..you should see the dhcp request when the intrd comes down..do you see anything for the second dhcp request?
08:59	linux2: would you himor me sometime and tell me what /etc/default/dhcp3-server says?
09:00	<linux2> cliebow__: i do not see a second dhcp request
09:00	INTERFACES="eth3"
09:00	<cliebow__> it acts like the initramfs has not support for the card..
09:01	i find that hard to believe
09:01	<linux2> cliebow__: that is /etc/default/dhcp3-server
09:01	<cliebow__> linux2: ok that tell you dhcp is listening on eth3..for sure..
09:02	is that an internal card or could you swap it out..
09:03	<linux2> i could swap it out
09:03	<cliebow__> once you get one up you can experiment..
09:03	as if you are not experimenting now 8~)
09:04	<linux2> ok second problem
09:04	it cannot connect to the nfs server at 192.168.0.1
09:04	oh wait
09:04	maybe it got it
09:05	<cliebow__> this is ltsp5?
09:05	<linux2> yeah
09:05	<cliebow__> nfs should be irrelevant..its function replaced by the squashfs
09:06	<linux2> ok it appears to be working anyways
09:06	but now I'm at X and I can't get it to log me in
09:06	<cliebow__> working//like wirking !!
09:06	<linux2> it just restarts x everytime i put in my user info
09:07	<cliebow__> linux2: my guees is your sshkeys need updating
09:07	<linux2> cliebow__: i just do this using the ltsp script right?
09:07	<cliebow__> so sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys followed by sudo ltsp-update-image
09:07	Gadi has joined #ltsp
09:08	<linux2> cliebow__: I don't have ltsp-update-image but i do have ltsp-update-kernels
09:08	<cliebow__> linux2: that was a new card that did the trick?
09:08	<linux2> actually it wasn't
09:08	I had to remove the second nic in the client
09:08	<cliebow__> ahhh!!!
09:08	heh ive been there..
09:08	<linux2> it wasn't plugged in
09:08	so thus it couldn't get an ip
09:08	and did nothing
09:08	lol
09:09	<cliebow__> ive seen ther initramfs initialize the wrong card..alright
09:09	<linux2> well it made the non-onboard card eth0
09:09	<cliebow__> should be ltsp-update-sshkeys
09:09	<linux2> and I was using onboard to boot
09:11	cliebow__: well now it won't boot kde
09:11	stupid thing
09:11	<cliebow__> hmm..
09:11	<linux2> well it just won't let me login
09:12	is my login info the same as it would be locally on the server
09:13	<cliebow__> so you made it to a login screen.but login returns...the login screen is a fromt fro an ssh authentication on the server
09:13	/fro/for
09:13	* cliebow__ cliebow hopes Gadi will solve everything
09:14	<linux2> cliebow__: yeah
09:14	i am restarting the client now
09:19	cliebow__: yeah it won't let me login
09:19	in the terminal or graphically
09:19	it just says "login incorrect" in the terminal
09:20	<cliebow__> the classic fix is sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys then sudo ltsp-update-imsge
09:20	<linux2> cliebow__: yeah but i don't have lstp-update-image
09:20	<cliebow__> /imsge/image
09:21	ltsp/
09:22	<linux2> cliebow__: whoa, now i don't have any lstp utils
09:22	they like dissapeared
09:22	autodita1 has left #ltsp
09:22	<cliebow__> /usr/sbin/ltsp-update-image
09:22	<linux2> cliebow__: yeah its gone
09:22	<jammcq> linux2: try 'ltsp' instead of 'lstp'
09:23	<linux2> jammcq: lol, good thing you caught that
09:23	here i am rushing along and i mess up that
09:23	<jammcq> yeah, this is one of those places that spelling matters
09:23	<cliebow__> heh..heh
09:23	<linux2> server1:/sbin# ltsp-update-sshkeys
09:23	server1:/sbin#
09:23	cliebow__: yeah and now i have no ltsp-update-image
09:24	i only have ltsp-update-kernels
09:24	which i would assume is the same
09:24	<cliebow__> no no
09:24	<jammcq> what distro are you running?
09:24	<linux2> debian etch
09:24	<jammcq> I don't think there is a ltsp-update-image
09:24	<cliebow__> linux2:meet jammcq..creator of the original ltsp
09:24	<jammcq> I don't think etch/ltsp was using nbd images
09:25	<linux2> jammcq: well nice to meet you, if what cliebow__ says is true. lol
09:25	<jammcq> well, I started ltsp, but lots of other guys around here are doing all the work. I just sit back and watch for spelling errors
09:26	<cliebow__> hahha
09:26	watch me a lot then..
09:26	<jammcq> cliebow__ keeps me plenty busy
09:26	<cliebow__> heheh
09:26	hee hee
09:26	<linux2> lol
09:27	its a good thing i have bad 90's techo to listen to or I wouldn't be able to finish this ltsp setup
09:27	<cliebow__> ok so failed login with an nfs mount..
09:27	anything in the server logs?
09:27	<linux2> cliebow__: so it would seem
09:28	<cliebow__> the user has a homedir on the server?
09:28	<linux2> yep
09:28	cliebow__: i can login as them locally on the server
09:28	or via ssh
09:29	<cliebow__> what logging might ther be in that homedir?
09:30	<linux2> cliebow__: when i shut down the system it does say ndb dissconnect. You mentioned ndb before i believe
09:31	<ogra> linux2, thast from the nbd swpfile
09:31	<cliebow__> jammcq did...look in /etc/inetd.conf..see if there are references to nbdroot
09:31	<ogra> etch dfinately had no nbd root support
09:31	<cliebow__> ahh
09:31	<ogra> cliebow__, yes, root-path is irrelevant with nbd
09:31	<cliebow__> linux2:meet ogra..creator of ltsp5
09:31	<ogra> nah
09:31	<linux2> haha
09:31	<ogra> i just took over what matt trew on the ground :)
09:31	<cliebow__> with a little help from hid firends
09:32	<ogra> *threw
09:32	<linux2> well at least you guys are plenty helpful
09:32	<ogra> linux2, is your ssh server actually running ? do you see any traces of the user you try with in your auth.log file ?
09:33	if thats both ok, have a look at the users ~/.xsession-errors file
09:33	<linux2> ogra: well i don't see anything in auth.log
09:34	other than someone who has been trying to login via ssh from my server for like a month
09:34	<ogra> is your bootserver different from the one you want to log in to ?
09:35	EDinNY has joined #ltsp
09:36	<linux2> ogra: nope
09:36	<ogra> hmm
09:36	did you put anaythng into lts.conf (you shouldnt)
09:37	vagrantc has joined #ltsp
09:37	<linux2> ogra: humm well i can login as root
09:37	via ltsp
09:37	but not as my user will
09:37	<ogra> vagrantc, yes, i do mind if we split out the udeb, its ugly ... but if it helps you, who am i to complain
09:38	<vagrantc> ogra: heh
09:38	<ogra> vagrantc, i made some massive changes the last days during the migration to the ubuntu CD
09:39	not sure you want them
09:39	linux2, but you dont see any login attempt of will in auth.log ?
09:39	EDinNY has left #ltsp
09:39	<vagrantc> ogra: to the udeb?
09:39	<ogra> do you see the root logins there ?
09:39	vagrantc, yup
09:39	it installs -standalone now
09:40	and i changed a lot of the command ordering
09:40	so you dont need to separately preseed the sshkey generation
09:40	(that was necessary before from d-i's late-command preseed value)
09:40	<vagrantc> ogra: sounds good overall ... might want a debconf question for ltsp-server/ltsp-server-standalone
09:41	ogra: as in preseedable question, defaulting to -standalone
09:41	<cliebow__> jammcq:why can i never repsond to any msgs from ltsp-discuss..something about members-only?
09:41	<ogra> feel free to send a patch :)
09:41	<vagrantc> ogra: where's your branch these days?
09:41	<linux2> ogra: nope
09:41	<ogra> vagrantc, locally and on my fileserver
09:41	linux2, then you are not logged in on the server as root through ltsp
09:41	<linux2> ogra: well i actually can't tell cause of this stupid server which keeps trying to guess my username and password
09:42	<ogra> not sure where you log in to though
09:42	<linux2> so it is spamming auth.log
09:42	211.154.135.178
09:42	ugh why do they make me hate them
09:42	lol
09:42	<ogra> vagrantc, i'll push it somewheer as soon as i have the CDs going properly
09:42	<vagrantc> ogra: and just to be clear, you reluctantly agree to split the udeb ? :)
09:43	<ogra> yes
09:43	i dont like the idea at all ...
09:43	but i wont stand in your way
09:43	<vagrantc> ogra: it's purely due to debian's poor handling of unstable -> testing migration for packages with udebs
09:44	<ogra> yes, i understand that
09:44	i'm just scared of having a ltsp-client-builder source package
09:44	<vagrantc> ogra: scared?
09:44	<cliebow__> jammcq: but on subscribing i am already a member
09:44	<ogra> it will confuse people with half breeded knowledge
09:44	<vagrantc> ogra: ah, sure.
09:45	<ogra> enough to keep me busy answering sily questions
09:45	<vagrantc> ogra: the vocabulary is already confusing enough with ltsp-client-builder and ltsp-build-client
09:45	<ogra> i'm only scared of the consequences
09:45	right, thats what i mean
09:45	* vagrantc ponders a new name for the udeb
09:46	<ogra> i named it like that in the strong belief it would never show up anywhere with its name
09:46	how are other d-i udebs called
09:46	?
09:47	<Blinny> linux2: Use a package like 'denyhosts' -- will scan auth.log for repeated failed logins and add them to hosts.deny
09:47	<vagrantc> ogra: not sure. i'll look into it before doing any significant work on it
09:47	<linux2> Blinny: yep i did that
09:47	Blinny: finally no more them
09:47	lol
09:48	<vagrantc> ogra: i never did get around to cleaning up all those hard-coded values ...
09:48	<linux2> Blinny: ok the login worked
09:48	yay! :-)
09:48	<cliebow__> YAYA..what chgabged?
09:48	<ogra> vagrantc, where ?
09:48	<cliebow__> Balls!
09:48	Yay!! what changed?
09:49	<linux2> Blinny: I actually have no idea
09:49	<ogra> cliebow__, his DOS attack on the shh server stopped :)
09:49	*ssh
09:49	<linux2> i just noticed it saw my login now
09:49	<vagrantc> ogra: the hard-coded networking values in ltsp-client-builder ...
09:50	<ogra> ah
09:50	<linux2> now how to do sound
09:50	<vagrantc> ogra: i think when debian-edu starts using it they'll hopefully file patches or at least motivate me into actually doing it :)
09:50	<ogra> vagrantc, NET=192.168.0
09:51	just add a debconf question for that
09:51	<vagrantc> yeah, probably start simple
09:51	<cliebow__> linx2: that is out of my knowledge///i believe it should "just work"
09:51	<ogra> thats all taht should be needed
09:51	<vagrantc> yeah, i guess, anything else ought to just be: don't use the udeb, configure it manually
09:52	<linux2> cliebow__: lol, well lucky for me it doesn't
09:53	<cliebow__> there has been so much work done lately..it is hard to know which rendition we are talking
09:54	<linux2> cliebow__: ughh this is a mess
09:54	<ogra> doews anyone know how far Gadi or Q-Funk are with fixing the amd xorg driver ?
09:55	<cliebow__> linux2:dont suppose a switch to ubuntu is a possibility?
09:55	<linux2> cliebow__: heh, not really
09:55	cliebow__: that server is hosting a bunch of websites
09:56	gotta rebuild the client now
09:56	<cliebow__> are you sure you want ltsp running there as well?
09:56	<linux2> http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto
09:56	following that
09:57	cliebow__: yeah, that server is fast enough to handle all of it
09:57	<cliebow__> linux2:meet vagrantc..debian maintainer
09:57	<linux2> cliebow__: I'm meeting a lot of people today, aren't i
09:57	<cliebow__> im blabbing a lot today arent i8~)
09:58	<linux2> lol
09:58	cliebow__: well your blabbing did get ltsp finally working :-)
09:58	<cliebow__> WOOT!!
09:58	<linux2> cliebow__: I am probably going to run ltsp off of this system eventually
09:59	cause my server is really just what i test everything on
09:59	i mean it is only a dual p3 600MHZ
09:59	but it gets the job done
10:00	<vagrantc> linux2: running ltsp on debian?
10:00	<cliebow__> sure...my server is an old crusty laptop i drag from school to school..the parrots keep ripping the keys off it
10:00	<linux2> vagrantc: yep
10:00	* vagrantc notes that vagrantc is the maintainer of ltsp packages in debian, but not a debian-maintainer, nor a debian-developer
10:00	<linux2> vagrantc: after a little bit of a fight it is mostly working
10:01	<cliebow__> 8~)
10:01	<linux2> how much ram do you need to run the client?
10:01	<vagrantc> linux2: please feel free to update the wiki and/or file bug reports ...
10:01	<linux2> vagrantc: oh I should do that
10:01	vagrantc: all and all it was pretty easy
10:01	maybe I should write a little tutorial
10:02	<vagrantc> glad to hear
10:02	* vagrantc wonders if we should fork the documentation for etch, etch+ltsp-backports and lenny
10:02	<cliebow__> linux2:might want to mention that two nics in a client could cause problems
10:02	* vagrantc has long suspected 2 nics might not be handled well
10:02	<linux2> yeah it can mess things up a little
10:02	<ogra> linux2, RAM-> you can get a client booting fine with 48M .... to work with it you should have 64M ....
10:03	<linux2> ok i have 368 or something in it
10:03	<ogra> 128M would be my recommended default nowadays
10:03	<linux2> ogra: 128 is easy to get your hands on these days
10:03	especially pc100
10:03	<cliebow__> not with simms 8~)
10:04	<linux2> oh dammit
10:04	i forgot to put my bus in neutral
10:04	<cliebow__> ??
10:04	<linux2> yeah i drive a bus instead of a car
10:04	lol
10:05	http://rpmmaker.net/bus/2/
10:05	<cliebow__> a dual-car?
10:05	<linux2> take a look
10:05	<cliebow__> for a living?
10:06	<linux2> nope i just drive it
10:06	<cliebow__> or do you live there
10:06	heh
10:06	<Blinny> Must get great mileage.
10:06	<linux2> there is a bunch of stuff in it in that pic, that is before i bought it
10:06	well I'm still in high school
10:06	<cliebow__> he has a 5000 gal tank
10:06	<linux2> im only 17
10:06	100 gal actually
10:06	lol
10:07	Blinny: not too bad, about 10MPG
10:07	* cliebow__ cliebow wishes he were 17 and had as much lnux under his belt
10:07	<linux2> although in the cold weather it gets like 6MPG
10:07	<jammcq> cliebow__: that thing could come in handy for the next BTS
10:07	<linux2> cliebow__: heh, been using linux since i was like 11
10:07	<cliebow__> yeah..for sure..
10:08	wouldnt need the seawall
10:09	linux2:New york?
10:09	<linux2> cliebow__: nahh im in MA
10:09	* vagrantc was just thinking about an LTSP gathering
10:09	<linux2> i should also be in school today but that didn't happen
10:09	I don't have enough gas to get to school and back
10:10	<cliebow__> take the bus,,,err the other bus
10:10	<linux2> i go to school 45 minutes away from here
10:10	there is no bus
10:10	well other than mine
10:10	<ogra> vagrantc, sure, come over and bring the others :)
10:10	<linux2> i have to drive to school in the morning
10:10	<vagrantc> ogra: heh :)
10:11	<cliebow__> i work at school 45 minutes day..away..but home feeling groaty to
10:11	<vagrantc> LTSP hackfest 08, the quest to find sbalneav
10:12	<ogra> vagrantc, he's alive at least
10:12	<linux2> cliebow__: heh I'm probably gonna fail out of high school knowing me
10:12	<cliebow__> vagrantc:what were you thinking about..oh yeah a road trip to manitoba..Where in the wrld is sblaneav
10:12	linux2:you gottas be smart enough to play the game..and get a degree
10:13	<linux2> cliebow__: yeah i am, i could pass with straight A's if i wanted to
10:13	i just never do my homework
10:13	never enough time
10:13	<cliebow__> icould have too..instead i screwed off and got c's
10:14	<linux2> cliebow__: well I think I am going to have to stay back a year
10:14	oh goody
10:14	plus with gas costs these days
10:14	i can't afford to get to school
10:14	so i don't know what they want me to do
10:15	<cliebow__> looking back i wish i'd pursued computers..course they were a toy at home then..back in 1967
10:15	<Blinny> Staying back a year is only fun in college. High school blows.
10:16	<cliebow__> linux2:cant they work with you..i know my bro is a superintendent..and has kds coming off the islands..and are given some flexibility
10:18	<linux2> cliebow__: heh they are already a pain as it is
10:18	they actually expect me to go to saturday school for being late
10:18	unless they want to give me $40 to pay for gas I'm not going
10:18	<cliebow__> western mass?
10:18	<linux2> eastern mass
10:18	near boston
10:18	about 45 minutes away
10:18	medfield MA
10:18	<cliebow__> like hudson?
10:18	<linux2> but i go to school in Milford MA
10:19	<cliebow__> i see..
10:20	i should think you'd look into a ged..classes at a comm.college..apply to harvard afterwards
10:20	<linux2> its about 15 miles away
10:20	<cliebow__> a vespa
10:20	<Blinny> heh
10:20	<linux2> but i like my bus
10:20	<Blinny> heated vespa
10:20	<linux2> i had a minivan before but its gas millage was similar
10:20	<cliebow__> well..for summertime..(which translates to "July"
10:21	<linux2> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
10:21	ltsp-client: Depends: pulseaudio-esound-compat but it is not going to be installed
10:21	that error makes no sense
10:21	pulseaudio-esound-compat is installed
10:21	<ogra> it cant find that package
10:22	* sutula thinks that smells like a version dependency
10:22	<linux2> http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto
10:22	following this
10:24	<ogra> sutula, does debians apt not show version numbers for such ones ?
10:24	ubuntus certainly does
10:24	<sutula> ogra: You're right
10:25	Still, if it needs a newer version, but it can't be because of some other dependency, don't we see messages like that? They're hard to figure out.
10:26	linux2: Etch or Sid?
10:26	<linux2> sutula: etch
10:26	<sutula> linux2: Do you have the Etch backports in your sources.list?
10:26	<linux2> yep
10:27	* sutula remembers that he saw a new version available in the last couple of days and hasn't had time to update to it
10:27	<linux2> W: GPG error: http://pkg-ltsp.alioth.debian.org etch-ltsp-backports Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 94F73ADC13D61A99
10:28	i added it to the keyring
10:28	ahh there we go
10:28	file got deleted
10:28	* sutula goes back to sleep
10:29	muh2000 has joined #ltsp
10:29	<cliebow__> night!!
10:30	<linux2> lol
10:32	I should have used my quad xeon server for ltsp
10:32	It would be fun to try it on one of those 16 processor 128GB ram systems
10:32	<Blinny> :s;fun;frickin awesome
10:33	<cliebow__> need gig nics in your duao xeon clients
10:34	<linux2> pure fiber connections
10:34	K_O-Gnom has joined #ltsp
10:34	<linux2> cliebow__: I could actually do fiber if I wanted to
10:34	<cliebow__> Jah1
10:34	<linux2> i have like a couple of 10GB/s fiber cards around here somewhere
10:34	<cliebow__> well..will your initramfs support the interface
10:34	<linux2> and big terminals that do like 1000GB/s
10:34	probably not
10:34	lol
10:35	<cliebow__> you need to find a way to get some high-level schooling..the heck with high school
10:36	<linux2> heh I wish
10:37	high school bores me
10:37	they won't even let me take calculus
10:37	so i took algebra 2 again for the 5th year in a row
10:37	for no credits or anything
10:37	<cliebow__> god grief..
10:37	<linux2> to prove to them i could take calculus
10:37	got an A+ last year in algebra 2
10:37	i don't know what is wrong with them
10:38	stupid public schools
10:38	<cliebow__> i had calculus as a senior..years ago..
10:38	<linux2> is it just me or does anyone else realize that you don't learn anything at high school?
10:39	I don't retain anything
10:39	well then again everyone just messes around in class anyways
10:40	if I could go to college they I so would
10:40	actually learn some computer science or something useful for once
10:42	cliebow__: well I used to work as a software engineer and then a linux technician so I could learn more about linux and computers
10:42	staffencasa has joined #ltsp
10:46	<linux2> wow is that debian server all messed up now
10:46	can't even install kde
10:49	<sutula> linux2: Same one I helped you with a few days ago? I'm still trying to clean my conscience from that. :)
10:49	<linux2> sutula: yep
10:49	kinda working now
10:49	The following packages have unmet dependencies:
10:49	ltsp-client: Depends: xorg but it is not going to be installed
10:49	E: Broken packages
10:50	xorg: Depends: libgl1-mesa-dri
10:50	libgl1-mesa-dri: Depends: libgl1-mesa-glx (= 6.5.1-0.6) but 7.0.1-2 is to be installed
10:50	total mess
10:51	<ogra> yeah, looks like the sources list in your chroot is pretty messed up
10:51	<linux2> ogra: any way to remove all the ltsp stuff and start from scratch?
10:51	<ogra> rm -rf /opt/ltsp/i386
10:52	ltsp-build-client
10:53	sepski has quit IRC
10:54	<linux2> ogra: well now I can't even install kde
10:54	everything on the server is all messed up
10:54	and it doesn't seem like it is going to be easy to fix
10:54	<ogra> that seems unrelated
10:54	<linux2> kdelibs4c2a: Depends: kdelibs-data (< 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.2) but 4:3.5.7.dfsg.1-7 is to be installed
10:54	well it appears to have messed up all of the package dependencies somehow
10:55	<ogra> errr, you dont try to install ltsp-client on a normal system ?
10:55	<linux2> this could be a problem
10:56	<ogra> apt-cache show ltsp-client read the description ;)
10:56	<linux2> well regardless everything is all messed up
10:56	lol
10:57	<ogra> first of all apt-get -f install shoudl get you to a clean state again
10:57	<vagrantc> linux2: whoah. you've got a really messed up system.
10:57	<linux2> nope
10:57	totally dead now
10:58	vagrantc: well this system was already messed up before. its hard drive came from another server which came from another and i never formatted the os and started fresh
10:58	so it doesn't make any sense
10:58	lol
10:58	<vagrantc> heh
10:58	prpplague has joined #ltsp
10:59	<linux2> vagrantc: I don't know how it messed up kde
10:59	and basically everything else
11:00	are the etch sources broken?
11:00	cause i can install kde using lenny sources
11:00	<ogra> did you do that already on this machine ?
11:00	<linux2> well I'm doing it right now
11:01	I had kde installed but some package removed it
11:01	and using etch sources I could not install it again
11:04	<mathesis> hi vagrantc
11:04	<vagrantc> linux2: if you mix etch and lenny it will likely break your dependencies for some packages
11:05	mathesis: hola
11:05	<linux2> vagrantc: yeah but using just etch all dependencies were broken
11:05	so I would rather have only some broken than all
11:05	<vagrantc> linux2: i suspect that something else got messed up. etch isn't going to "just break"
11:06	<linux2> vagrantc: well to say the least, that server is know to have issues
11:07	<ogra> which doesnt mean you couldnt get it to a clean state with a dist-upgrade :)
11:07	vagrantc, did you have a look at consolekit already
11:07	<vagrantc> ogra: not at all
11:07	<ogra> new hal and dbus wont let you do any admin tasks without DM support for it
11:08	i.e. gnome and KDE both break for admin tools atm
11:08	<linux2> i think i see the issue
11:08	<ogra> we need to somehow get consolekit support into ldm :/
11:08	<linux2> I added the backport sources to my regular system install
11:08	then i did apt-get install libasound2-plugins
11:08	which removed kde
11:09	and did who knows what else
11:10	ogra: i did try apt-get dist-upgrade but that just didn't have any packages to upgrade
11:10	<vagrantc> more likely the backport screwed things up than etch itself being screwed up
11:10	<linux2> yes that is what I would think
11:11	<ogra> linux2, well, dist-upgrade upgrades to the next distro release :) you would have to clean up your sources.list to point to lenny only etc
11:11	<linux2> vagrantc: it should say in the wiki to make sure you do it in the chroot
11:11	or it already does
11:11	and i missed it
11:11	lol
11:11	<vagrantc> dist-upgrade just does more thorough dependency resolution and will install or remove packages ... has little to do with releases other than that's when it's most useful
11:12	linux2: if you follow the wiki step by step it works, i assure you.
11:12	<ogra> well, but to get a system into a clean state you should use only one release :)
11:12	<vagrantc> linux2: everything done in the chroot explicitly says so
11:12	<linux2> vagrantc: humm well then i have no idea how i did what i did
11:13	* vagrantc notes that step 1 is add the key(s)
11:13	<linux2> and that should not be done in the chroot am I correct?
11:13	<vagrantc> linux2: if you're following the instructions, the chroot doesn't even get created till step 5
11:14	the very last step
11:14	<linux2> now I remember what the problem was
11:14	it failed to create the chroot at libasound2-plugins
11:14	because of some dependency
11:14	<vagrantc> "works for me"
11:14	<linux2> so I manually installed it via apt-get
11:15	<vagrantc> i test the backports on a cleanly installed etch system before releasing them
11:15	<linux2> vagrantc: if my server can make an easy process complicated and all messed up then it is working properly
11:15	lol
11:15	vagrantc: yeah my server likes to be special and break everything
11:17	vagrantc: well it is "working" now
11:18	but I don't want to speak too soon
11:19	brb, need some food to eat whilst watching some progress bars
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12:17	<muh2000> hmmm so i finally got ltsp5 working but i have problems with the mouse. what changed in the lts.conf from 4.2 -> 5.0 ?
12:19	hmm maybe it is realted to that? "modprobe: FATAL: Could not load /lib/modules/2.6.22-2-486/modules.dep: No such file or directory"
12:20	<Gadi> muh2000: if you have been updating your chroot, try rnning: sudo ltsp-update-kernels
12:21	<ogra> Gadi, how is the work on the amd driver going ? (i was asked by some of our support guys today if there would be a fixed version in hardy)
12:22	<mathesis> Vagrantc that you like debian??
12:22	<vagrantc> mathesis: indeed
12:23	<Gadi> ogra: testing as we speak
12:23	<muh2000> Gadi: hmmm still the same error and no mouse :(
12:23	<mathesis> why?
12:23	<Gadi> tell them we will definitely have a more-fixed one for hardy
12:23	<ogra> cool, so there is light at the end of the tunel ?
12:23	yay
12:24	<Gadi> indeed - it was a problem with the x86emu emulator that X.org is using (coupled with a potential bug in some BIOSes)
12:24	<ogra> would be odd to have that around broken for 3 years
12:24	<Gadi> yeah
12:24	Q-FUNK has been doing a great job orchestrating everything
12:24	and getting the Xorg guys to pay attention :)
12:25	<ogra> dapper didnt have a very good ltsp as it was to young back then ... i want the best ltsp experience with hardy we can get out of the current code :)
12:25	<Q-FUNK> ogra: well, amd wasn't broken. the real issue was that soem X components under the hood have changed without anybody really noticing.
12:26	<ogra> Q-FUNK, well, then there is a communication prob that should be solved .... louder announces of the Xorg changes would be one :)
12:26	<Q-FUNK> agreed
12:26	<ogra> or someone having the time to go through all the even minor changes
12:26	<Q-FUNK> too many changes in X core happen without proper documentation
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12:29	<muh2000> /opt/ltsp/i386/lib/modules/ only contains 2.6.18... the 2.6.22... is not there :/
12:34	makghosh has joined #ltsp
12:34	<muh2000> hmmm i am thinking about compiling a new kernel...
12:45	<vagrantc> mathesis: because it's community driven and doesn't release too often
12:59	<linux2> NOOOOO
12:59	well now I am trying to install ltsp on my main computer
13:00	and now it fails while processing nbd-client ltsp-client-core and ltsp-client
13:02	it is on debian unstable
13:02	<vagrantc> linux2: sid ?
13:02	linux2: bug filed, new nbd uploaded, should hit unstable within a few hours
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13:03	<linux2> vagrantc: ahh ok, I wonder what the error is anyways
13:03	<vagrantc> linux2: workaround is to use : --early-packages "nbd-client/testing ltsp-client" --extra-mirror "http://YOUR.MIRROR/debian lenny main"
13:03	linux2: it was a bug in nbd-client i reported last night and today they uploaded a fix :)
13:03	<linux2> ahh speedy quick service there
13:04	<vagrantc> linux2: also note that linux-image-486 in sid is broken, so you'll need to use --extra-mirror with a lenny repo anyways
13:04	<ogra> vagrantc, anything intresting for me in that nbd fix ?
13:04	<linux2> vagrantc: ltsp-build-client \ --extra-mirror "http://pkg-ltsp.alioth.debian.org/debian etch-ltsp-backports main" \ --apt-key /etc/apt/trusted.gpg --early-packages "nbd-client/testing ltsp-client" --extra-mirror "http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian lenny main"
13:04	like that
13:04	<vagrantc> ogra: no idea
13:04	<ogra> ah, i thought you did it
13:05	<vagrantc> ogra: nbd-client completely failed to install because of a syntax error with update-rc.d
13:05	ogra: i just reported it
13:05	<ogra> ouch
13:05	<vagrantc> linux2: if you're using sid, then using the backports won't get you anything
13:05	linux2: are you trying to build a sid chroot on a sid server?
13:06	<linux2> vagrantc: is sid unstable?
13:06	<vagrantc> linux2: yes
13:06	<linux2> vagrantc: got lost in the release names
13:06	<vagrantc> linux2: sid is always unstable
13:06	<linux2> vagrantc: ahh that would explain my confusion
13:06	<ogra> evil kid
13:06	<vagrantc> linux2: he was that kid in toy story that mutilated toys
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13:06	<linux2> lol
13:07	vagrantc: ok let me give it a try now
13:07	<ogra> vagrantc, actually sid is pretty stable .... at least as name over the years ... somehow thats slightly paradox /me thinks :)
13:07	<vagrantc> linux2: but if you wanted to use multiple --extra-mirror you have to comma-separate them: --extra-mirror "http://foo/bar,http://baz/bat unstable main"
13:07	<linux2> ahh ok
13:08	well at least I will know this all for later
13:08	getting sound to work on the system I was using before was a pain
13:08	vagrantc: it kept crashing trying to load the kde soundserver
13:08	but then again I would expect nothing less from that system
13:08	<ogra> indeed the old ltsp used esd
13:08	<vagrantc> i tried testing sound on etch and it didn't work ... something in my instructions must have been missing. although when i wrote them i re-installed from scratch several times to make sure i had it.
13:09	<ogra> so you would have to switch to it in kde
13:09	<linux2> ogra: ahh ok, but the application was crashing with signal 11
13:09	artsd that is
13:09	<ogra> yeah
13:09	you would have to switch from arts to esd
13:10	<vagrantc> or maybe nas
13:10	<ogra> the kde sound options offer that
13:10	<linux2> ahh ok, well that system was too slow for the intended application
13:10	ogra: thanks for the info though
13:10	<nanashiehs> Hello, Sorry to intrude but can I ask a question?
13:10	<linux2> i will keep it in mind
13:10	<ogra> thats not needed with the sid version though
13:10	<linux2> nanashiehs: go right ahead
13:10	<vagrantc> !question
13:10	<ltspbot> vagrantc: "question" is if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can.
13:10	* ogra calls it a day ...
13:10	<ogra> night all
13:11	<vagrantc> ltspbot: forget question
13:11	<ltspbot> vagrantc: The operation succeeded.
13:11	<linux2> ogra: yeah i thought so but that server was a complete mess. I was using the sid version but it still didn't work so I have no idea
13:11	<vagrantc> ltspbot: learn question as is if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can. :)
13:11	<ltspbot> vagrantc: The operation succeeded.
13:12	<nanashiehs> I am looking into using this for an application where I need to have four users on thin clients but I need to have the sound the users generate directed to its own sound card for each client on the server not the thin client, is this possible? I am new and gathering info, so if its not right to ask that here, I am sorry
13:13	<vagrantc> nanashiehs: should be possible.
13:13	staffencasa_ has joined #ltsp
13:13	<vagrantc> nanashiehs: maybe a little tricky
13:15	<nanashiehs> ok, thats really what I wanted to know, it could work, it would not matter on the complexity, just that its possible
13:16	<linux2> nanashiehs: well when it comes to linux I have learned that just about everything is possible
13:17	<muh2000> crap tried to compile a kernel but now it complains about not receiving a root path :/ (there is one provided by dhcpd though)
13:18	<nanashiehs> thank you very much for your info and time, have a good day
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13:20	<muh2000> or where can i get the modules folder for the 2.6.22-2-486 kernel?
13:28	makghosh has quit IRC
13:28	<muh2000> hmmm strange the tarball does not contain the 2.6.22-2-468 kernel :/
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13:30	<muh2000> and the 2.6.18-5-486 also complains about a missing root path :(
13:30	where in hell does the vmlinuz-2.6.22-2-486 comes from?
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13:33	<linux2> vagrantc: do you know how i make sound work on my clients without disabling the sound on the server
13:34	<vagrantc> linux2: i'm not sure. ubuntu patched alsa* to be able to easily do it, but surely there must be a way to configure it.
13:34	<linux2> vagrantc: yeah i would think so
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13:35	<muh2000> comon guys i dont know how stuff was intended to be
13:37	<vagrantc> muh2000: why are you compiling a kernel?
13:38	muh2000: i'm guessing this is on debian based on your kernel versions ...
13:38	<linux2> vagrantc: uh oh, I found a problem
13:39	<vagrantc> muh2000: why not use the default kernel ?
13:39	* vagrantc is more interested in the details of the problem than knowing one exists
13:39	<linux2> vagrantc: it doesn't appear that x is working anymore after i set it up to use xdepconfigurator
13:39	<muh2000> vagrantc: kernel 2.6.18-5-486 complains about missing rootpath. kernel 2.6.22-2-486 is not complete (lib/modules/2.6.22-2-486/ folder missing) i deleted already my own built kernel because same error with root path
13:39	<vagrantc> muh2000: why not use the default kernel ?
13:39	<linux2> vagrantc: i'm trying to find out more as i go
13:39	<muh2000> vagrantc: kernel 2.6.18-5-486 complains about missing rootpath.
13:40	vagrantc: and kernel 2.6.22-2-486 is not complete (lib/modules/2.6.22-2-486/ folder missing)
13:40	<vagrantc> muh2000: could you paste your dhcpd.conf to the pastebot?
13:40	!pastebot
13:40	<ltspbot> vagrantc: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
13:41	<linux2> vagrantc: any idea how i can change it back to the other x configurator?
13:41	xdebconfigurator just simply doesn't work
13:41	and doesn't appear to have an error either
13:42	<vagrantc> linux2: comment out the option in lts.conf that you added ...
13:42	<muh2000> vagrantc: the important line option root-path "192.168.88.1:/opt/ltsp/i386/"; (with 2.6.22-2-486 it boots to the kdm and i can login... same with the old ltsp-4.2 version)
13:42	<vagrantc> X_CONFIGURE_COMMAND or something like that
13:42	muh2000: is this using ltsp-server on debian etch?
13:43	<muh2000> vagrantc: ltsp-server-standalone on debian lenny
13:43	<vagrantc> muh2000: if so, you need to leave the server's ip address out of the root-path line, and put the server's ip in next-server
13:43	<linux2> vagrantc: I guess the better question is, why does the default x configurator choose weird resolutions to run at
13:43	like 1280x960
13:43	instead of 1280x1024
13:43	and there doesn't look like there is a way to change it
13:43	<vagrantc> linux2: it's the defaults for X.org in whatever version of X you're running
13:44	linux2: set X_MODE_0=1280x1024 in lts.conf if you prefer that
13:44	<linux2> #SOUND=False
13:44	should that be like that
13:44	if i want sound?
13:44	oh wait
13:44	nvm
13:45	heh missed the #
13:45	vagrantc: sorry about all the questions, just new to all this
13:47	<Gadi> linux2: 1280x960 is a VESA-compliant mode, 1280x1024 is not
13:47	chances are, thats a default mode of the video chipset
13:48	<linux2> Gadi: does ltsp use the vesa module by default
13:49	cause it should be using the i810 for this card
13:52	<muh2000> vagrantc: thnx, now i can boot but while booting there is an endless msg "someone reset scsi chennel0" or something like that. also video performance is terrible and my sound does not work anymore :( mouse works though :)
13:52	<Gadi> linux2: no
13:52	not the vesa module
13:52	im talking about the VESA standard
13:52	<vagrantc> muh2000: haven't had those problems...
13:52	<Gadi> most video chipsets ship with default modes that are all VESA modes
13:53	hence all the issues with widescreen support
13:55	<muh2000> vagrantc: hmm the debian.sound thing does it have to be installed on the server or the client root ?!
13:55	oh wait ^^
13:55	<vagrantc> muh2000: could you be more specific?
13:55	<muh2000> it is written at the end of the file
13:56	<vagrantc> muh2000: it will explicitly say when you need to do something in the chroot
13:57	<muh2000> vagrantc: now i am confused
13:57	README.Debian.sound
13:57	in Debian, getting sound support working with LTSP is fairly easy, by installing alsa plugins for pulseaudio, and configuring alsa to use pulseaudio:
13:57	---> on the server?
13:58	<vagrantc> muh2000: does it say to do it in the chroot?
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13:59	<muh2000> well i am getting confused be the last line
13:59	<vagrantc> muh2000: if it doesn't say to do it in the chroot, you do it on the server.
13:59	muh2000: the last line is a command to run on the server.
13:59	muh2000: which chroot's into /opt/ltsp/i386 and installs some packages
14:00	<muh2000> which is the client ^^
14:00	<vagrantc> muh2000: but unless you've done something weird, you shouldn't have to do anything with the last line.
14:00	<muh2000> ok
14:01	<vagrantc> muh2000: to check, you can run: dpkg --root=/opt/ltsp/i386 -l 'pulseaudio*' alsa-utils libasound2-plugins
14:04	<muh2000> hmm ok
14:04	i am starting right now... takes a while till the client boots because of the scsi0 error..
14:04	<linux2> vagrantc:ok i got alsa to work
14:04	vagrantc: pretty easy
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14:19	<linux2> does anyone know if ltsp renders graphics and then sends it to the client or sends the raw data and then the client renders it?
14:22	<stillflame> X runs on the client. X does the rendering.
14:22	* stillflame thinks.
14:23	<linux2> stillflame: yeah that is what i thought
14:24	but i mean i am on an old 200MHZ client and it is getting 350FPS with glxgears
14:24	sorry i meant 300MHZ client
14:24	but still
14:24	<muh2000> hmpf i cant get soudn working
14:25	<linux2> with linux installed locally on that system I could only get about 100FPS
14:25	<stillflame> hmm, interesting.
14:27	<sutula> linux2: That's the idea of ltsp...sharing a more capable server among a bunch of cheap (and probably slow) clients
14:28	<linux2> sutula: yeah only one problem, you can't really watch videos or use flash videos on the clients
14:28	it just doesn't seem to have enough bandwidth to do so
14:29	* sutula uses it that way, but it probably depends on the exact config and hardware
14:29	<muh2000> normally it should be able to watch vids, i did it for a long time but with 5.0 i am having the same trouble...
14:30	<linux2> sutula: what speed network
14:30	muh2000: yeah I'm on a 100Mbit network and it is damn slow
14:30	<sutula> linux2: The server is on a 1G segment, and the clients are 100M
14:30	linux2: Are you using compression/encription?
14:31	<linux2> and my network usage is showing that it is only reaching a max upload speed of 3.75Megabytes
14:31	sutula: humm I have no idea
14:31	sutula: I guess whatever the default is
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14:31	<sutula> linux2: put "LDM_DIRECTX = True" in your lts.conf file
14:33	<muh2000> linux2: 100mbit is enough but soudn is more of my concern right now
14:35	<linux2> muh2000: sound is pretty easy
14:35	just do this...
14:37	<muh2000> hmmm
14:38	<linux2> muh2000: echo 'pcm.!default { type pulse } ctl.!default { type pulse }' >> /etc/asound.conf
14:38	then restart the client
14:38	<muh2000> already did that
14:43	<Gadi> muh2000: so, how are you testing sound?
14:44	with what app?
14:44	<muh2000> Gadi: mplayer, kaffeine, audacious, xmms, noatunm etc...
14:45	<Gadi> are you in KDE or GNOME?
14:46	<muh2000> kde
14:46	<Gadi> how is your sound configured in KDE?
14:46	if you go into the sound config, do you see a pulse sound card?
14:47	<muh2000> gadi sound config ? you mean like where i select the hw ?
14:47	i thought alsa was the way to go ?
14:47	<Gadi> yeah, the KDE control panel
14:47	well, you should see the pulse device as a sound card
14:48	make sure you do
14:48	otherwise, it may be trying to use the server's sound
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14:51	<muh2000> Gadi: i am right now in the control panel-> sound system -> hw there is alsa oss esd jackd but no pulse
14:52	<linux2> sutula: flash and video still runs terrible
14:52	<sutula> linux2: Client rebooted?
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14:53	<Gadi> muh2000: that should still be ok
14:54	slidesinger has joined #ltsp
14:54	<Gadi> (you may want to install pulseaudio on the server, too)
14:54	cliebow__ has quit IRC
14:54	<Gadi> is there something that describes the alsa device
14:54	perhaps you can open kmix or something
14:55	the sounds should go: app -> alsa -> pulse "virtual soundcard" -> network -> pulse daemon on client -> client speaker
14:56	some apps still require a wrapper like "padsp"
14:56	(install pulseaudio-utils package for that)
14:57	<linux2> sutula: yep
14:57	sutula: as far as i can tell no change
14:58	<sutula> linux2: I have to leave, but if the option is working, that should make a pretty big difference in graphics performance ...Gadi would know for sure
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15:02	<linux2> Gadi: well it appears that encryption is still on even though in the config it is turned off
15:03	echo $DISPLAY = 11.0
15:04	<muh2000> gadi in kmix i only see the sound dev of my server
15:04	what is the pulse audio daemon called if there is any ?
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15:07	<cliebow> did i miss anything cool??
15:08	<Gadi> muh2000: prolly "pulse"
15:08	muh2000: I only know from gnome
15:09	try installing pulseaudio on the server
15:09	linux2: what distro?
15:09	<muh2000> is installed gadi
15:09	<Gadi> muh2000: can you play a sound with paplay
15:09	<linux2> Gadi: ok nvm i got it running somehow
15:09	<Gadi> (I think thats what its called)
15:09	<linux2> Gadi: yeah it was a typo
15:10	ok now sound in flash isn't working
15:10	<muh2000> Gadi: paply is not on the system. i also dont have speakers at the server
15:10	<linux2> well it was never working
15:10	<Gadi> linux2: got it
15:10	muh2000: paplay
15:10	should be in the pulseaudio-utils pkg
15:13	<muh2000> Gadi: Failed to open file 'a-blame-diablo-sour.mp3'
15:13	<Gadi> typo?
15:14	<muh2000> paplay a-blame-diablo-sour.mp3
15:14	Failed to open file 'a-blame-diablo-sour.mp3'
15:14	<Gadi> try a wav file
15:14	paplay is very basic
15:14	try: paplay /usr/share/sounds/*.wav
15:14	or some such
15:15	<muh2000> paplay bombpl.wav
15:15	Connection failure: Connection refused
15:17	<Gadi> try: ESPEAKER=<thin_client_ip>:16001 paplay bombpl.wav
15:17	<vagrantc> PULSE_SERVER
15:17	ESPEAKER is for Esound
15:17	<Gadi> should still work, no?
15:17	<vagrantc> and it's a different port
15:17	<muh2000> Connection failure: Connection refused Gadi
15:17	<Gadi> guess not
15:18	hmm...
15:18	<muh2000> vagrantc: i used esd before with 4.2 and esd worked...
15:18	<vagrantc> only if pulseaudio is configured to output to esound
15:18	<muh2000> used to work...
15:18	ESPEAKER=192.168.88.5:16001 paplay bombpl.wav
15:18	Connection failure: Connection refused
15:18	PULSE_SERVERR=192.168.88.5:16001 paplay bombpl.wav
15:18	Connection failure: Connection refused
15:18	<vagrantc> it's a different port for PULSE_SERVER
15:19	muh2000: so ESPEAKER and PULSE_SERVER weren't set ?
15:19	<muh2000> what port is it
15:19	vagrantc: what?
15:19	set where ?
15:19	set how?
15:19	<vagrantc> echo $ESPEAKER ; echo $PULSE_SERVER
15:19	on login, they should be environment variables set.
15:20	<muh2000> vagrantc: on the server or client?
15:20	<vagrantc> if they are not set, then your thin client isn't telling the server that it's configured to use sound.
15:20	<Gadi> 4713
15:20	<vagrantc> muh2000: logged onto the server *from
15:20	<Gadi> just looked it up
15:20	<vagrantc> * the thin client
15:21	<muh2000> PULSE_SERVERR=192.168.88.5:4713 paplay bombpl.wav
15:21	Connection failure: Connection refused
15:21	<Gadi> PULSE_SERVER=192.168.88.5:4713 paplay bombpl.wav
15:21	(one R in SERVER)
15:21	well, 1 at the end
15:21	:)
15:21	<muh2000> PULSE_SERVER=192.168.88.5:4713 paplay bombpl.wav
15:21	Connection failure: Connection refused
15:21	<Gadi> if that doesnt work, I suspect you never set SOUND=Y in lts.conf
15:22	<vagrantc> what linux distro ?
15:22	<Gadi> or SOUND=True
15:22	<muh2000> SOUND = Y
15:22	but i think that could be the problem
15:22	<Gadi> COLUMNS=200 ps -ef\|grep PULSE
15:22	<muh2000> what do i have to put in to sound daemon ?
15:22	<Gadi> do you get anything?
15:22	<muh2000> nope
15:23	vagrantc: echo thing returns nothing
15:23	<Gadi> and: what distro
15:24	<muh2000> Gadi: debian lenny
15:24	<stillflame> Gadi: -w to ps will wrap around.
15:25	<vagrantc> muh2000: dpkg -l 'ltsp' \| egrep ^ii ; dpkg -l --root=/opt/ltsp/i386 'ltsp' ldm \| egrep ^ii
15:25	<Gadi> stillflame: good tip :) I am so old school
15:27	<muh2000> http://nopaste.org/p/anb4Bnkxo
15:27	<vagrantc> muh2000: you've got ldm from etch and ltsp from lenny
15:28	muh2000: i would start over ... that's bound to be an ugly, ugly mess.
15:29	<Gadi> kinda like in Toy Story 2 when woody's gonna be sold to the Japanese museum
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15:29	<Gadi> poor lenny played a bit role in that one
15:29	<johnny> i realize i'd never seen toy story 2
15:30	<muh2000> ldm was what exactly ?
15:30	<vagrantc> muh2000: it's that screen that comes up when you log in
15:30	<Gadi> LTSP Display Manager
15:30	<muh2000> ^^
15:31	<Gadi> muh2000: perhaps a good ole: mv /opt/ltsp/i386 /opt/ltsp/i386.old ; ltsp-build-client
15:31	is in order
15:31	<muh2000> vagrantc: be starting over again... the whole client build stuff ?
15:31	<vagrantc> muh2000: well, unless you'd rather configure everything by hand.
15:32	muh2000: but i'm certainly not going to help with that.
15:32	<muh2000> rm -R /opt
15:32	and i am totally not into configuring everything by hand ^^
15:32	<Gadi> heh few are
15:32	its not a typing contest
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15:33	<vagrantc> muh2000: before you go running ltsp-build-client ... what's the output of lsb_release --codename --short ?
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15:35	<muh2000> lenny vagrantc
15:35	<vagrantc> muh2000: good.
15:36	<muh2000> but i wonder what i should do with pulse since it does not appear under ps aux...
15:37	<vagrantc> muh2000: get your thin client working first
15:38	<muh2000> vagrantc: worked with two exceptions: sound and video ^^
15:38	but brb...
15:39	<vagrantc> muh2000: sound wasn't supported in etch
15:39	muh2000: and you had an etch thin client
15:39	(well, not supported very well)
15:40	<muh2000> vagrantc: hmmmm so what should i do? upgrade to lenny?
15:41	<vagrantc> muh2000: you just told me that lsb_release told you you're running lenny, the ltsp packages you have installed are lenny ....
15:41	muh2000: your server is lenny
15:41	muh2000: unless you've been feeding us false data this whole time :P
15:41	<muh2000> vagrantc: so the server will get lenny packages ?
15:42	<vagrantc> unless you tell it otherwise
15:42	<muh2000> k
15:43	<linux2> ok anyone else here using flash on a client
15:44	cause it is sooo slow
15:44	i mean watching a youtube video barely works
15:45	<vagrantc> flash is known to be very network-hostile
15:45	<muh2000> vagrantc: is there a value for --locale ?
15:46	<vagrantc> muh2000: it defaults to whatever the server is set to
15:46	muh2000: however, ldm doesn't currently support localizations
15:47	<muh2000> vagrantc: when --locale is used server settings are taken. when it is not C is taken?
15:47	<vagrantc> muh2000: ?
15:48	<linux2> vagrantc: well besides that a lot of applications seem to just close
15:48	i cannot seem to figure out why
15:48	<muh2000> when i use --locale the install will use what my server uses?
15:48	when i dont use --locale the install will use standard english (lang=C)
15:48	<vagrantc> muh2000: parts of the install will be in english no matter what you do- not everything supports localization
15:49	<muh2000> ok
15:49	that is np
15:50	<vagrantc> muh2000: if you set --locale then it will configure the LTSP chroot environment to use the specified localization
15:51	<muh2000> vagrantc: and the specified localiziation is resolved by the setting the server uses?
15:52	<vagrantc> muh2000: the specified localization overrides the default, which is what the server uses.
15:52	muh2000: if you don't specify anything, you will get the same localization as the server.
15:52	<linux2> vagrantc: well i guess it is just flash that doesn't want to work
15:52	<muh2000> now i get it ^^
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15:53	<muh2000> linux2: flash is superaids combined with herpes anyway...
15:53	<linux2> vagrantc: cause i can watch a movie in the media player on the client
15:53	<vagrantc> muh2000: for most of the options, if you don't do anything, it will behave reasonably well.
15:53	mikkel has quit IRC
15:53	<vagrantc> muh2000: they're only there if you want to change them.
15:53	plamengr has quit IRC
15:55	<muh2000> ok
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15:55	<stillflame> does anyone have a sense of what causes clients to fail to get dhcp when the server logs show that it's sending OFFERs to their REQUESTs.
15:55	<vagrantc> bad nics or switches, usually
15:56	<muh2000> vmware ^^
15:56	<stillflame> or cross-over cables?
15:56	though i've replaced that once already.
15:56	<vagrantc> anything between the computer's BUS and the other computer's BUS :P
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15:57	<stillflame> right, that sounds right.
15:57	okay, i'll replace all of that.
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16:13	<muh2000> soooo
16:13	i reinstalled ltsp
16:14	nice wellcome screen ^^
16:14	but mouse fails again :(
16:14	modprobe: FATAL: Could not load /lib/modules/2.6.18-5-486/modules.dep: No such file or directory
16:16	ahh
16:16	i have to switch the kernel ^^
16:16	brb
16:18	* Gadi wonders why ltsp-update-kernels doesnt care for that
16:22	<mathesis> se vagrantc i have widow manager e16 in ltsp
16:23	how can i change e16 to other windows manager?
16:27	<muh2000> argh
16:27	target filesystem does not have sbin/init
16:33	why the hell does it not find init stuff
16:34	<prpplague> jammcq: whats cookin bossman?
16:34	<muh2000> "no init found try passing init= boot arg"
16:40	<vagrantc> muh2000: diff -ur /opt/ltsp/i386/boot /var/lib/tftpboot/i386
16:40	oops
16:40	muh2000: diff -ur /opt/ltsp/i386/boot /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
16:40	<muh2000> i found the boot=nfs option and now it starts
16:40	<vagrantc> muh2000: it sounds like you've gotten an etch install again
16:41	muh2000: what command did you run?
16:41	<muh2000> nah it says lenny/sid ltsp tty............
16:41	<vagrantc> the error message you're getting is from a kernel most certainly not in lenny
16:45	<muh2000> sooo sound works nearly out of the box ^^
16:45	<vagrantc> mathesis: install another window manager ...
16:46	<muh2000> X_MODE_0 = 1280x1024 is not recognized
16:46	<vagrantc> mathesis: you can select a different session by clicking on preferences in the lower left hand corner, clicking on select session, and selecting the one you want
16:46	<muh2000> and video is still very slow
16:46	<mathesis> oks vagrantc
16:47	<vagrantc> muh2000: you're absolutely sure the video card and monitor support that resolution?
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16:48	<muh2000> vagrantc: yes. it is nvidia something and a 21" crt ^^ that can go up to 1600*1200
16:50	<vagrantc> mathesis: if you want to change the default, you'll have to mess with update-alternatives or create a ~/.xsession file
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16:58	<muh2000> well working sound for most apps is a good thing for today mplayer has an issue though but i dont mind much...
16:58	next thing to bear would be the slow gui response...
16:59	<Gadi> hey, vagrantc: you near a thin client?
17:00	muh2000: it sounds like you have a screwed up system
17:00	you keep having to change kernels?
17:00	are you marrying the wrong kernel to the thin client?
17:01	its hard to make judgments on video and sound when it sounds like a simple install doesnt go right
17:01	<muh2000> Gadi: the old ltsp 5 wanted the -18 kernel. the new ltsp5 used the 22 kernel... i had still the other kernel in the pxeconf file... and a missing option boot=nfs
17:01	<vagrantc> Gadi: well, i've got a virtualbox thin client somewhat handy ...
17:01	<Gadi> I would be suspicious of the environment
17:01	<vagrantc> Gadi: well, i'm not done installing its' server
17:02	<Gadi> vagrantc: ah, ok - nah,I needed you on a real client
17:02	<vagrantc> muh2000: pxelinux.cfg/default doesn't contain any versioned kernels by default
17:02	<Gadi> Im trying to reduce the memory footprint
17:02	and I am wondering what memory footprint you see
17:02	<vagrantc> Gadi: how would a virtual thin client not help with that?
17:02	<muh2000> vagrantc: yeah except i am not using the file provided by ltsp :)
17:03	<vagrantc> muh2000: ah. well, you're on your own then :P
17:03	<Gadi> vagrantc: well, I like real memory numbes, but I sppose it could
17:03	<muh2000> vagrantc: yes, but as said already fixed :)
17:03	<vagrantc> Gadi: there's likely to be significant differences between ubuntu and debian, though ...
17:03	muh2000: well good!
17:04	<Gadi> vagrantc: understood - I did an lsmod - some of the modules take up a huge amount of space
17:04	(relatively)
17:04	like ipv6
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17:04	<muh2000> vagrantc: :) the only thing i could not fix is the video issue. (video in video files and the desktop seems a littlebit slow compared to the old old old ltsp-4.2)
17:05	<Gadi> muh2000: have you checked the xorg logs
17:05	on the client?
17:05	perhaps you are in vesa
17:06	<muh2000> Gadi: that could be very likely. i havent checked the logs yet. well i tested the value "XSERVER = NV" but i guess it is old stuff from 4.2 (didnt made a difference in speed)
17:06	<vagrantc> muh2000: you could try setting LDM_DIRECTX=True ... should be pretty comparable to what LTSP used to use
17:06	muh2000: XSERVER = nv
17:06	muh2000: case may very well matter
17:06	<Gadi> muh2000: and add: CONFIGURE_X = True
17:07	* Gadi still doesnt see why that isnt default
17:07	<muh2000> Gadi: more fun for keeping users in the dark and coming into this channel :D
17:07	<vagrantc> Gadi: if the xserver is installed, it's the default
17:08	if the xserver is not installed, it's not the default
17:08	<Gadi> no, I meant the CONFIGURE_X
17:08	<vagrantc> and so do i
17:08	<Gadi> ah, really
17:09	I always thought you had to explicitly tell it with the new Xorg
17:09	<vagrantc> most of the defaults are set in the /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/ltsp_config
17:09	er
17:09	/opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/ltsp/ltsp_config
17:09	<Gadi> yeah, I know what u mean
17:09	<vagrantc> but for those who don't :)
17:14	<muh2000> ok video is faster now :)
17:14	thnx
17:15	i try the resolution thing another day. i will hit the hay ^^
17:15	thnx for helping Gadi and vagrantc :)
17:15	<vagrantc> of course
17:24	<Gadi> np
17:24	* Gadi hits hay as well
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19:03	<vagrantc> YAY!!!
19:04	http://packages.qa.debian.org/d/debian-maintainers/news/20080117T003202Z.html
19:04	i'll be able to upload ltsp packages myself now!
19:05	<dberkholz> only took 4 years, eh
19:05	<vagrantc> well, i'm still not a debian developer :)
19:05	i can only upload packages that i'm part of a team
19:06	or the only maintainer
19:08	otavio: thanks!
19:08	<otavio> vagrantc: no problem
19:09	vagrantc: I hope you still work with me? :P
19:09	<vagrantc> otavio: heh. of course :)
19:09	* otavio going to bed
19:09	<otavio> vagrantc: enjoy it ;-)
19:09	* vagrantc going to celebrate
19:09	<otavio> vagrantc: use dput to upload the packages
19:09	<vagrantc> otavio: yeah, i know how to use dput
19:10	<otavio> vagrantc: and take a look at devscripts debrelease
19:10	vagrantc: it helps
19:10	<vagrantc> otavio: will still need you to do some uploads setting the DM-Upload-Allowed flag
19:10	<otavio> vagrantc: sure!
19:10	vagrantc: you know that it won't be a problem
19:10	<vagrantc> otavio: i just gotta catch you before a weekend or a holiday :)
19:11	<otavio> ahaha
19:11	well
19:11	* otavio went
19:11	otavio has quit IRC
19:11	* vagrantc waves
19:11	<vagrantc> dberkholz: other than the trust-building, this process actually only took a few days
19:12	* vagrantc still has drudgery to deal with for full developer status
19:12	<dberkholz> such excitement
19:13	<vagrantc> heh
19:13	alright, i'd best go work some of this excitement out at the aikido dojo :)
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20:30	<ltsppbot> "LNS" pasted "lspci -vv" (634 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/419
20:42	<lns> Please see ltsp-discuss list for details on that post regarding pixmap issues :)
20:42	<johnny> idoubtit
20:43	if it's on ltsp-discuss , why are you asking it here?
20:44	pasting a link to the thread might help tho
20:51	<lns> johnny, ok hold on
20:51	ooo, that was easier to obtain than I thought. ;)
20:51	http://www.mail-archive.com/ltsp-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net/msg33337.html
20:52	<johnny> and using the DIRECTX parameter doesn't help?
20:52	<lns> I remember trying DIRECTX recently but wasn't sure if it was for that or not..
20:53	is that a known workaround for my issue?
20:53	<johnny> uhmm.. who knows :).. it just seems like it might help
20:53	nobody is really about now
20:53	but it seems the issue won't be resolved properly in any case until the apps themselves are fix0red
20:54	<lns> are there upstream bugs filed? if so, how can we escalate it? I would seriously put some cash down to help it get fixed, if that's the case
20:54	i mean, i'm not rich by any means, but i bet if enough people pooled in we could all hire someone to fix the actual issues
20:55	it's a showstopper for the small district i'm converting to ubuntu..if they can't firefox and openoffice, that's like...half of their cirriculum right there!
20:55	<johnny> i'd assume so
20:55	not related to ltsp specifically i'msure
20:56	the issue is with how firefox itself uses pixmaps which is even bad on normal desktops
20:56	have you checked it via firefox 3?
20:56	<lns> it's so daunting to try and find all these upstream bugs and figure out who's talked to who on the mailing lists, irc, etc.
20:56	<johnny> try firefox3 beta 2 for a lil bit
20:56	<lns> i haven't yet
20:56	<johnny> it's true
20:56	well that'd be the easiest thing for you to do
20:56	<lns> only on my own machine...but i couldn't get the flash plugin to work
20:56	<johnny> i assume that will be resolved as soon as possible
20:56	since firefox3 will be out soon
20:57	<lns> i can't deploy it if it's not stable enough to run flash
20:57	<johnny> it is stable enough to run flash
20:57	the problem is flash itself
20:57	<lns> well =p
20:57	that doesn't help me much
20:57	<johnny> we have to wait for htem
20:57	to update hsit
20:57	that's what you get for relying on proprietary software
20:57	<lns> i totally concur
20:57	<johnny> :(
20:57	well i can guarantee one thing
20:57	spending any money on firefox 2 won't be worth it
20:57	and by the time anything comes out of it
20:57	<lns> well trust me, if it were up to me they'd be running 100% oss...but people like flash, people use it all the time and you can't get away from it as much as you want it to...unfortunately
20:58	<johnny> firefox 3 will be out
20:58	<lns> ok well what about openoffice?
20:58	<johnny> that's what i don't know about
20:58	<lns> i'd love to hire someone that can fix those bugs in OOo itself - but i just have no clue as to where to go
20:58	<johnny> perhaps novell consulting?
20:58	or IBM
20:58	<lns> as i'm sure is the situation with many people wanting OSS bugs fixed...
20:58	<johnny> i agree
20:59	i'd be interested in helping you figure that out
20:59	<lns> if novell / ibm consulting is the same as canonical, i can't afford it as a business right now
20:59	totally
20:59	<johnny> well.. maybe if you brought enough people together
20:59	<lns> that would be the easy part, i think... =)
21:00	i'd need a plan on how to congregate people like that thou
21:00	<johnny> well, see who does the most coding on openoffice who isnt an employee of sun,novell,canonical :)
21:00	they would be most likely to help
21:00	<lns> and avoid making it "another" irc/list/forum/LP non-central place ;)
21:00	true
21:01	<johnny> also.. first see who is working on the issues in the bug tracker
21:01	check novell's bug tracker
21:01	and openoffice's
21:01	since novell has done many patches to openoffic
21:01	they even have a bug for opensuse talking about ltsp
21:01	<lns> is there no current way to link upstream/downstream bugs in bugtrackers like LP?
21:01	<johnny> most of them use a customized bugzilla
21:01	<lns> yeah
21:02	<johnny> and bugzilla itself didn't used to have a nice external API like that
21:02	altho that might be different now
21:02	<lns> i mean IANAP but it would seem difficult to track everything
21:02	<johnny> i haven't been keeping track
21:02	it is
21:02	i'm doing hacking on sabayon
21:02	and i'm having to keep links to all the major distro bugtrackers together
21:02	i've seen found some useful patches in there
21:02	<lns> heh...maybe that's the best thing to do
21:02	<johnny> nothing big or anything
21:02	<lns> create a spreadsheet/wiki or something
21:03	<johnny> well that'd be a start for sure
21:03	<lns> hmm...a wiki to centralize bug reports
21:03	<johnny> and figure out how you can perhaps get launchpad changed
21:03	well i'd prefer to use an open framework
21:03	with some sort of web service API
21:03	<lns> that's beyond me...i'll probably stick to a spreadsheet for now ;)
21:03	<johnny> there is effort on distributed bugtrackers
21:04	<lns> really?
21:04	"that sounds pretty cool..." - Kip
21:04	<johnny> it takes awhile for stuff like this to coalesce
21:05	need to find a way to get a grant to do this kinda stuff
21:05	it deserves oen
21:05	one*
21:05	<lns> totally
21:05	educational grant
21:05	<johnny> that's what i need, somebody who's familiar with getting grants and working in the educational system
21:06	and a few free software folks who know the communities and how they work or don't work together
21:06	it really is it's own ecosystem
21:06	<lns> well i have ins at the educational sector level...
21:06	<johnny> far vaster than can even be imagined
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21:39	<johnny> lns, thing is. i haven't had any issues with this at my terminals, since i only have 4 :)
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21:44	<lns> johnny, why don't you try it out sometime - just open up openoffice writer, open tools -> gallery and insert/drag around lots of clipart. It will eventually slow down and crash.
21:44	(the whole terminal)
21:45	it really sucks for us because a lot of the curriculum is based around writer and artwork that they do - it was one of the first projects once we'd moved to LTSP - and it failed miserably :(
21:46	i checked out the OOo bugtracker...damn, you need to know sql to query that tracker. ugh!
21:48	<johnny> aha.. it looks like you need to get the problem resolved at the xorg level
21:48	here's the best bit i found
21:48	It would seem that the problem has a far more difficult one underlying it.
21:48	> X clients don't know how much memory is available and so they can only ask
21:48	> for as much as they need and see do they get it. The X server doesn't know
21:48	> in advance how many windows and pixmaps there will be, so it can currently
21:48	> only respond by allocating space until it runs out. The next client to
21:48	> make a request then gets refused. However, that could be any client,
21:48	> including the window manager.
21:48	oh.. it didn't wrap
21:48	sorry :(
21:48	stupid quoting..
21:49	where's the coalition of LTSP :)
21:54	<vagrantc> X_RAMPERC help any?
21:58	<johnny> so.. yes.. firefox3 does include specific tweakable fixes.
21:58	that is verified
21:59	yeah that's another thing i found was X_RAMPERC
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23:45	<mathesis> hi vagrantc
23:48	mathesis has quit IRC
23:50	<vagrantc> bye mathesis
23:57	<lns> vagrantc, X_RAMPERC doesn't work in my environment unfortunately, because then my clients don't boot up
23:57	http://www.mail-archive.com/ltsp-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net/msg33337.html
23:59	<vagrantc> lns: SOUND = true and SOUND_DAEMON = pulse are the defaults