IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 10 March 2010 (all times are UTC)
| 00:00 | <johnny> for not enough benefit
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| 03:49 | <Comete> hi
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| 03:51 | i just update my Edubuntu 9.10 LTSP server with LTSP 5.2.1 and encounter a strange problem
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| 03:52 | it seems that when i start 2 or more thinclients at the same time, the dhcp server tries to give them the same ip address
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| 03:54 | as a result i get for example 2 thinclients with LDM connection screens showing both "ltsp171 (192.168.3.171)" at the bottom right of the screen
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| 03:54 | <alkisg> Comete: LTSP 5.2.1? What do you mean?
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| 03:55 | 5.2 is the last version, and it's not in the karmic repositories
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| 03:55 | <Comete> alkisg: the last update from stgraber ppa
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| 03:55 | <alkisg> Ah, let me see which version it has...
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| 03:55 | !stgraber-ppa
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| 03:55 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "stgraber-ppa" :: https://launchpad.net/~stgraber/+archive/ppa
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| 03:56 | <Comete> there is a backport for karmic
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| 03:56 | <alkisg> Comete: yeah, you need this one: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/1707
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| 03:57 | stgraber: that "quoted clientid bug" was kinda serious, so you might want to upload a new version to your ppa
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| 03:58 | <Comete> alkisg: how can i update to this new version ?
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| 03:58 | <alkisg> Get this file: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/annotate/head%3A/client/initramfs/scripts/init-premount/udhcp
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| 03:58 | (click on download file)
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| 03:59 | save it to: /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-premount/udhcp
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| 03:59 | run: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 update-initramfs -u
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| 04:00 | <alkisg> sudo ltsp-update-kernels
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| 04:00 | Then reboot the clients...
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| 04:00 | <Comete> oh thanks a lot !
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| 04:04 | alkisg: do i need to start a ltsp-update-image too ?
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| 04:04 | <alkisg> No
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| 04:06 | <Comete> alkisg: it says: Generating /boot/initrd.img-2.6.31-19-generic but i'm using 2.6.31-20-pae on my server, is it normal ?
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| 04:06 | <alkisg> Yes - you just haven't updated your chroot recently
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| 04:07 | <Comete> alkisg: so i should run "apt-get dist-upgrade" in my chroot ?
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| 04:07 | <alkisg> If you want... it's not related to the udhcp problem
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| 04:08 | some notes for this are here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/UpdatingChroot
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| 04:12 | <Comete> alkisg: thanks
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| 04:12 | <alkisg> np
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| 04:15 | <Comete> alkisg: another problem that was reported by the school where the LTSP server is in use, it seems that all the operations on thinclients are very slow after starting 5 or more thinclients
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| 04:16 | <alkisg> It's usually either network speed or cpu usage
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| 04:16 | LDM_DIRECTX helps a ton for cpu usage, see the docs
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| 04:16 | !docs
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| 04:16 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 04:16 | <Comete> alkisg: they are using a server with 4G RAM and a Pentium 4 3Ghz on a 100mb network
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| 04:16 | alkisg: i already enable this
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| 04:17 | <alkisg> 100mbps isn't good for a lot of clients
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| 04:17 | You need to upgrade to gigabit, at least from the server to the switch
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| 04:17 | Or, you could try trunking with 3-4 NICs on the server, that would also help
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| 04:18 | <Comete> ok i will try this
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| 04:19 | alkisg: they have 14 thinclients
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| 04:19 | <alkisg> With 100mbps cards?
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| 04:21 | <Comete> yes
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| 04:21 | and 512M RAM
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| 04:21 | <alkisg> Get a switch with at least one gigabit port, and an intel gigabit nic on the server, and disable flow control. That will make your network 10 times faster... https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FlowControl
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| 04:24 | With 512 ram, you could also run some stuff as localapps
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| 04:24 | E.g. firefox/flash. That would save you a lot of bandwidth as well.
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| 04:25 | <Comete> ok i will try that too
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| 04:26 | thanks for these nice informations :)
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| 04:44 | alkisg: is it a good idea to use NETWORK_COMPRESSION=YES too ?
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| 04:45 | <alkisg> No, any compression/encryption raises the server cpu usage too much. Good for security but not for performance...
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| 04:45 | <Comete> ok
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| 04:46 | alkisg: the fix for udhcp works
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| 04:46 | <alkisg> Good, i hope stgrabers updates his ppa soon.
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| 04:46 | <Comete> alkisg: i must leave now, thanks a lot again for the help :)
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| 04:46 | <alkisg> You're welcome, bye bye
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| 04:48 | <Comete> bye
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| 06:30 | <igudym> hi
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| 06:31 | i try to upgrade my fedora 9 based ltsp setup to newer fedora 12
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| 06:31 | and have some troubles
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| 06:32 | does anybody using fedora 12
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| 06:32 | ?
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| 06:32 | after two days of frustration i ready to migrate to ubuntu
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| 06:34 | is it have sence?
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| 06:45 | * alkisg can only testify that there are more ubuntu users than fedora users in this room... | |
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| 07:03 | <igudym> i have plenty of old machines - ADM K2-500 and Celeron 400
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| 07:03 | AMD K5-500
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| 07:03 | fedora's minimum kernel is i686
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| 07:04 | there is comething with tftp
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| 07:05 | some dinstance workstations not load any more (loaded with f9 just fine)
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| 07:05 | <_UsUrPeR_> igudym: I would recommend you give Ubuntu a shot
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| 07:07 | <igudym> two thing prevent: most of the time i use centos and fedora
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| 07:08 | i use ubuntu only on netbook
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| 07:09 | and second - i have configured and working envirenment of about 20 users
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| 07:10 | what happens to users gnome desktop and so on?
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| 07:10 | <Appiah> um
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| 07:11 | mgariepy has joined #ltsp | |
| 07:11 | <Appiah> I'm sorry I dont understand
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| 07:11 | what problems are you currently having?
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| 07:11 | <igudym> two
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| 07:12 | 1. Some clients don't start kernel - it i686 only
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| 07:12 | 2. Some clients don't even load kernel and initrd
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| 07:13 | <Appiah> so what error do you get when these clients PXE boot?
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| 07:13 | if we start with no1
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| 07:14 | <igudym> 1. Kernel say something about feature is't missing and stops
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| 07:14 | <Appiah> please get the exact message
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| 07:15 | <igudym> minutes
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| 07:23 | <weenus> I'm getting pxelinux.0 tftp file not found for some unknown reason. Anyone see anything wrong with my dhcpd.conf file? http://pastebin.com/BuVgeZix
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| 07:25 | <igudym> This kernel requires the following features not present on the CPU:
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| 07:25 | cmov
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| 07:25 | Unable to boot - please use a kernel appropriate to your CPU.
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| 07:27 | weenus: filename "var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0";
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| 07:27 | weenus: should be filename "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0";
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| 07:28 | relative to tftpboot directory
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| 07:28 | Appiah: ?
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| 07:31 | OK, what version of ubuntu start from?
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| 07:31 | last desktop or server?
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| 07:32 | <mgariepy> morning all
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| 07:32 | <igudym> hi
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| 07:32 | <Appiah> igudym: are you running 64bit server?
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| 07:33 | <igudym> no
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| 07:33 | <Appiah> Fedora something ?
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| 07:34 | cluster has joined #ltsp | |
| 07:34 | <cluster> hey
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| 07:34 | <Appiah> "The problem is that certain CPU's, even though they are "pentium class", lack the cmov instruction. At some point a few years ago, the default 586/686 build of the booter (isolinux?) started requiring cmov"
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| 07:34 | <cluster> im having problems booting clients
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| 07:35 | They get an IP address but the TFTP hangs with a timeout error
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| 07:35 | <igudym> uname -s -v -r -i -m
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| 07:35 | Linux 2.6.32.9-67.fc12.i686.PAE #1 SMP Sat Feb 27 09:42:55 UTC 2010 i686 i386
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| 07:36 | <cluster> can anyone help?
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| 07:36 | <alkisg> cluster: they don't even load pxelinux?
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| 07:36 | <Appiah> its your clients igudym
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| 07:36 | <igudym> server
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| 07:36 | <Appiah> its your clients , with the issue
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| 07:36 | <cluster> alkisg, nope, they just hang
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| 07:36 | <alkisg> Then it isn't a kernel problem
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| 07:36 | It's a tftp problem, or a pxelinux problem
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| 07:37 | <cluster> its tftp
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| 07:37 | im pretty sure
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| 07:37 | basically
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| 07:37 | i had this problem yesterday
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| 07:37 | <alkisg> Ah sorry I got mixed up with the person above
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| 07:37 | Ignore me :)
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| 07:37 | <Appiah> cluster: all clients? or just some?
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| 07:37 | * alkisg reads again... | |
| 07:37 | <cluster> all
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| 07:37 | basically it was the same problem yesterday
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| 07:37 | and i got some help in here
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| 07:37 | <alkisg> cluster: distro/version?
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| 07:37 | <mgariepy> cluster, does inetd started ?
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| 07:38 | <Appiah> how did you solve it then?
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| 07:38 | <cluster> but i was told not to use xinetd
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| 07:38 | only inetd
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| 07:38 | <cluster> its ubuntu 9.10
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| 07:38 | so anyways
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| 07:38 | i came in to try out the advice i got from yday
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| 07:38 | <alkisg> You can also use xinetd, it's just not recommented
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| 07:38 | <cluster> but my twat mate has fiddled trying to use vnc :@ and installed xinetd
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| 07:39 | oh, well i removed xinetd
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| 07:39 | and it wanted to remove ltsp-server etc
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| 07:39 | <igudym> Appiah: it's a kernel problem - i load it from hdd
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| 07:39 | <cluster> so i let it, purged everything
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| 07:39 | and reinstalled it all
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| 07:39 | and now im back to square one with the tftp problem
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| 07:39 | <Appiah> igudym: didnt you see my quoted paste?
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| 07:39 | <igudym> "The problem is that certain CPU's, even though they are "pentium class", lack the cmov instruction. At some point a few years ago, the default 586/686 build of the booter (isolinux?) started requiring cmov"
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| 07:40 | that?
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| 07:40 | <Appiah> your kernel wont run on those clients
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| 07:40 | <alkisg> cluster: ok. Is tftp running? sudo netstat -nap | grep :69
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| 07:40 | <Appiah> yes that
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| 07:40 | <cluster> "TFTP open timeout"
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| 07:40 | <igudym> i know it
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| 07:40 | my kernel want run
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| 07:40 | jammcq has joined #ltsp | |
| 07:40 | <cluster> XD appraently not
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| 07:40 | <jammcq> howdie all
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| 07:40 | <alkisg> cluster: grep tftp /etc/inetd.conf
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| 07:40 | <igudym> i want to know - what kernel will run
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| 07:40 | <cluster> but i tried ps -efw|grep :69 and that worked so :S
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| 07:41 | that returned nothing either alkisg
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| 07:41 | i feel stupid now :$ lol
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| 07:41 | <igudym> ok, one more issue
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| 07:41 | <alkisg> cluster: cat /etc/default/tftpd-hpa
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| 07:42 | (to pastebin)
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| 07:42 | !pastebot
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| 07:42 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "pastebot" :: The LTSP pastebot is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 07:42 | <igudym> when i load old (from fedora 9) kernel and mount it to old i368 chroot it loads to ldm
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| 07:43 | and command prompt sessions started as well
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| 07:43 | but when i log in to server - client hangs
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| 07:44 | <cluster> http://pastebin.com/bxftmfQL
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| 07:45 | <alkisg> TFTP_ADDRESS="0.0.0.0:69"
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| 07:45 | TFTP_OPTIONS="--secure"
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| 07:45 | Add also those, but mainly you need an entry in inetd
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| 07:45 | <cluster> me?
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| 07:46 | <alkisg> cluster: Yes, also add this line to inetd.conf:
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| 07:46 | tftp dgram udp wait root /usr/sbin/in.tftpd /usr/sbin/in.tftpd -s /var/lib/tftpboot
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| 07:46 | Then run: sudo openbsd-inetd force-reload
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| 07:46 | Then restart your client...
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| 07:46 | *sorry
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| 07:46 | sudo service openbsd-inetd force-reload
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| 07:47 | <cluster> so this is right now? http://pastebin.com/hEPyPKEH
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| 07:47 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 07:47 | <cluster> cool
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| 07:48 | <markit> hi, I would like some clients "log" in a different GNU/Linux server (not the ltsp server), is it possible? what setup in lts.conf?
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| 07:49 | some of them already to rdesktop to a win2003 server
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| 07:50 | I would like to do something similare but with a X-Server and logging in a GNU/Linux server instead
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| 07:54 | <cluster> alkisg: Thank you so much! They boot now :D
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| 07:54 | <alkisg> You're welcome
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| 07:55 | <cluster> Byye, Thanks Again :D
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| 07:55 | <alkisg> mgariepy: the new tty fix sometimes leaves the client on screen_02... I don't know if that would be considered a bug or not
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| 07:55 | As soon as I switch to vt7, X starts properly
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| 07:56 | <markit> alkisg: hi, ltsp 5.2 ubuntu (a different installation from the one of my former question). At the ltsp login screen I enter username and password, but takes 15-20 seconds before "autenticate" and start loading desktop.. any idea? seems a timeout issue of a sort of "lookup" or reverse lookup thing...
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| 07:56 | <alkisg> I guess that it would be nice to have just 1 chvt, to switch to the one with DISPLAY set...
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| 07:57 | <markit> any parameter/config I can be missing?
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| 07:57 | <alkisg> markit: regular thin clients in karmic?
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| 07:57 | (or fat? or lucid? etc)
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| 07:57 | <markit> regular karmic
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| 07:57 | (the installation is not here but at my home, so I can't test right now)
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| 07:58 | <alkisg> It shouldn't need any dns to function properly, but you might try to put entries in /etc/hosts to see if it improves
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| 07:58 | 1.2.3.4 ltsp4, 1.2.3.5 ltsp5 etc
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| 07:58 | You could also try wireshark
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| 07:58 | <markit> alkisg: mm at the moment is a dhcp assignment, do you suggest to use fix ip?
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| 07:58 | <alkisg> No, just put dns entries for all the available dhcp leases
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| 07:59 | e.g. even 200 of them... you can quickly write them in calc
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| 07:59 | <markit> but I can't tell what IP a client will get... oh, I see..their name will be formed with the IP anyway
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| 07:59 | <alkisg> The name doesn't really matter
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| 07:59 | It might as well be different than the one actually assigned to the client
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| 08:00 | <markit> so dns resolution will fail...
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| 08:00 | * markit confused | |
| 08:00 | <alkisg> No dns resolution will be needed if you have an entry in /etc/hosts
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| 08:01 | <markit> ok, but I will have an entry like 192.168.1.101 ltsp101
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| 08:01 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 08:01 | <markit> then I boot a client, that wil be ltsp101 but dhcp will assign it 192.168.1.102
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| 08:01 | <alkisg> Then it will be ltsp102
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| 08:01 | Not 101
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| 08:01 | <markit> ok, I've got it now :)
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| 08:01 | <alkisg> I assume you don't actually have a dns server in your ltsp server, right?
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| 08:02 | Here's a script to help you: i=100; while [ $i -lt 110 ]; do echo 192.168.1.$i ltsp$i; i=$((i+1)); done
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| 08:02 | <markit> well, I'm usin dnsmasq
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| 08:02 | <alkisg> Do you have port=0 in dnsmasq.conf ?
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| 08:02 | If you don't, then you do have a dns server running
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| 08:03 | <markit> I use it as dns server, for cache purpouse
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| 08:03 | but it know nothing about ltspxxx names
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| 08:03 | <alkisg> OK, try putting the ltsp client declarations in /etc/hosts
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| 08:03 | dnsmasq will read them from there
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| 08:04 | <markit> ok, thanks, sure
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| 08:04 | <alkisg> ...and won't do reverse lookups (presuming that's the problem)
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| 08:04 | <markit> another problem ....
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| 08:04 | I've tried your gPXE
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| 08:04 | <alkisg> Which one? the one that adds a grub2 entry?
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| 08:04 | <markit> and gets the address and starts booting MUCH faster than nic PXE
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| 08:05 | alkisg: the .iso one
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| 08:05 | <alkisg> OK, that's rom-o-matic's gpxe, not mine :)
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| 08:05 | <markit> but alsot he grub entry, AFAIR, is faster than rom pxe
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| 08:05 | <alkisg> So?
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| 08:06 | <markit> I'm wondering if my dnsmasq setup is much more compatible with gPXE than "intel" PXE, and what to do
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| 08:06 | <alkisg> Nah, I don't think so. I think your client nic has a "slow" pxe stack
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| 08:07 | Are you using dnsmasq normally, or in proxydhcp mode?
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| 08:07 | <markit> when 5ltsp .2 was announced, I've read the blog about fast booting process, but if you sum the time it wastes with dhcp + login is slow
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| 08:07 | <alkisg> I.e. does it assign leases?
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| 08:07 | <markit> yes, is the "main and only" dhcp server around
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| 08:07 | <alkisg> I think that blog was timing with bootchart, which starts counting *after* the kernel boots
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| 08:07 | <markit> works also as lftp server
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| 08:07 | <alkisg> So it doesn't count the bios / pxe / tftp / kernel loading time
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| 08:08 | <markit> alkisg: I've read also about grub being able to pxe boot itself
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| 08:08 | <alkisg> That's not production ready yet
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| 08:09 | <markit> ah, I see, hope will be soon
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| 08:09 | <alkisg> Gadi: with the new vt non-switching code, if I put SCREEN_02=shell and SCREEN_07=ldm, half of the times I get screen 2 and X only starts after I switch to vt7...
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| 08:09 | Would you consider that a bug?
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| 08:09 | <markit> alkisg: thanks a lot for your help and tips :)
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| 08:09 | <alkisg> You're welcome
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| 08:11 | <Gadi> alkisg: thats the race condition for default screen that I referred to yesterday (we have always had that - tho, in the past, X would init and steal the vt, but since we now call openvt, X does not necessarily init until you switch to it)
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| 08:11 | <alkisg> Gadi, right, so wouldn't it be nice to switch to the first screen that uses X?
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| 08:11 | <Gadi> it would be nice to be able to define a default screen
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| 08:12 | as well as to have a sensible default when none is defined
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| 08:12 | <alkisg> OK, but still, if none is defined, I guess it's reasonable to expect it to start with X
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| 08:12 | <Gadi> what if you have ldm and rdesktop?
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| 08:12 | <alkisg> The first one (as a default - I'm not saying that there shouldn't be an option to specify one)
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| 08:13 | But if the first (or last) one is the default, I guess the admin can specify the one it wants there
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| 08:13 | <Gadi> I would do whats easiest and most reliable in the code
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| 08:13 | <alkisg> The problem is that they run in parallel, so it's hard to keep track if a chvt was called or not
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| 08:14 | <Gadi> we will definitely need a tmpfile to keep track of things
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| 08:14 | <alkisg> We could write a simple code to check the available SCREENs...
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| 08:15 | Sort them, and chvt to the highest ldm/rdesktop one
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| 08:15 | <Gadi> well, you need to chvt at the proper time
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| 08:15 | and only on boot - not logout
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| 08:15 | I think if we chvt in screen-session.d/ that is too early
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| 08:15 | and X will get screwed up again
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| 08:16 | I think for X sessions, we need to chvt post-xinit
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| 08:16 | meaning in xinitrc.d
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| 08:16 | <alkisg> But will that be called if we don't switch to that vt?
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| 08:17 | Will X start initializing?
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| 08:17 | <Gadi> if you have ldm an rdesktop, *one* of them will init
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| 08:17 | and if it is the wrong one, you want it to chvt to the right one
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| 08:17 | <alkisg> What if I have shell, ldm and rdesktop?
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| 08:18 | <Gadi> for non-X screen scripts, we will have to handle it in the screen script itself
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| 08:18 | <alkisg> I mean, in that case, screen_session (for shell) should chvt to the rdesktop screen
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| 08:19 | <Gadi> its too hard to figure out in screen_session whether you are calling a graphical or non-graphical session
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| 08:19 | <alkisg> (or better yet, the screen_session for rdp should switch to its own vt)
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| 08:19 | We can hardcode some values... how many are they?
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| 08:19 | ldm, rdesktop..
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| 08:19 | <Gadi> you dont want anything switching to its own vt
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| 08:20 | you want everything switching to the same vt
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| 08:20 | (but only on boot)
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| 08:20 | why hardcode values?
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| 08:20 | <alkisg> Why not? if they all have appropriate code, only the correct one will switch to itself
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| 08:20 | So only 1 chvt will take place
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| 08:20 | <Gadi> just modify screen-x-common and the individual non-graphical screen scripts
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| 08:21 | er, not screen-x-common
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| 08:21 | thats too early, I think
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| 08:21 | benGREEN has left #ltsp | |
| 08:21 | <Gadi> I think we need to add an xinitrc.d/ file
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| 08:21 | <alkisg> Is xinit going to call the scripts in xinitrc.d if that vt is not active?
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| 08:22 | <Gadi> alkisg: this whole thing started because by chvt'ing in screen_session, X ran on the wrong vt
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| 08:22 | <alkisg> Yes, but there were too many chvt's there
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| 08:22 | I'm proposing "there should be only one"
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| 08:22 | (highlander :P)
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| 08:22 | <Gadi> right, but lets say you had 02=shell and 07=ldm
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| 08:23 | <alkisg> okay,...
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| 08:23 | <Gadi> and you set your preferred default to be 02
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| 08:23 | because you like coming up to a shell
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| 08:23 | <alkisg> okay,...
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| 08:23 | <Gadi> if you chvt 2 in screen_session, wont we have the bug we just fixed where X will init on vt2?
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| 08:24 | <alkisg> DEFAULT_VT=${DEFAULT_VT:-$(get_the_highest_vt_that_uses_X)}
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| 08:24 | (that's : - $ )
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| 08:24 | chvt $DEFAULT_VT
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| 08:24 | <Gadi> before you go there -> is my assumption correct?
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| 08:25 | <alkisg> Hmmm I'm not 100% sure
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| 08:25 | I think that may be a race condition
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| 08:25 | I.e. if chvt happens after xinit starts or something...
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| 08:26 | <Gadi> thats what I am thinking, as well - which is why I would do it in xinitrc.d/
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| 08:26 | if I find some time, I will explore with some code
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| 08:26 | <alkisg> But, if xinit doesn't start until you switch the VT manually, why would you also run chvt in the code?
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| 08:27 | <Gadi> what I am thinking is this
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| 08:27 | let's say the default screen you want is 2
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| 08:27 | <alkisg> and that's shell, ok,
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| 08:28 | <Gadi> so, every screen script should call "chvt 2" - but only once on boot
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| 08:28 | and in their appropriate time
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| 08:28 | which means: X-based scripts after xinit, and non-X as part of their screen script
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| 08:29 | that way, no matter what comes up first, the thing that comes up first, does a chvt 2
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| 08:29 | and you land in the right spot
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| 08:29 | <alkisg> But if 07=ldm, and we start on vt2, the ldm script won't get to run until we switch to vt7
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| 08:29 | manually
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| 08:29 | <Gadi> not the prettiest, as for X-based script, X will init
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| 08:29 | not necessarily
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| 08:29 | as you said
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| 08:29 | <alkisg> And at that point, it'll just switch us back to 02, which we don't want since we switched to 07 manually...
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| 08:29 | <Gadi> half the time, it comes up to 07
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| 08:30 | and half the time to 02
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| 08:30 | for the half the time that 07 inits first, a chvt 2 will get it back to 02
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| 08:30 | <alkisg> Right, but if it starts last, we don't want to switch back to 02
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| 08:30 | Because that means we switched manually to 07
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| 08:31 | <Gadi> right, which is why when the first script does a chvt 2, it also touches a tmpfile
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| 08:31 | <alkisg> I believe *only 1* chvt should happen
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| 08:31 | <Gadi> so, the chvt never happens again
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| 08:31 | <alkisg> No need for tmpfiles in this case...
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| 08:31 | <Gadi> how will you keep it from chvt 2'ing the next time screen_script is called
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| 08:31 | igudym has left #ltsp | |
| 08:31 | <Gadi> (say after a logout)
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| 08:33 | <alkisg> That's a different problem - I could e.g. add something to ltsp_config
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| 08:33 | <Gadi> I dont understand
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| 08:34 | screen_session is called in a loop
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| 08:34 | <alkisg> . /usr/share/ltsp/ltsp_config
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| 08:34 | ==> if I append "CHANGED_VT=True" in ltsp_config, it's about the same as touching a tmpfile
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| 08:35 | <Gadi> ah, I see what you mean
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| 08:36 | <Gadi> well, if it works, I would be all in favor of switching to the first defined screen unless a SCREEN_DEFAULT is specified
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| 08:36 | <alkisg> But if the code was able to calculate before xinit which vt is going to be active, only one chvt would be called. So only that screen_session call would add that CHANGED_VT variable - saving possible race conditions with tempfiles
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| 08:37 | <Gadi> its still a race
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| 08:37 | <alkisg> I'd go for the higher one, but ok, no problem
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| 08:37 | <Gadi> hehe
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| 08:37 | I dont like reverse logic
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| 08:37 | <alkisg> No it isn't, because only one script sets CHANGED_VT. The other scripts don't try chvt at all.
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| 08:37 | <Gadi> people will get used to SCREEN_08=shell
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| 08:37 | :P
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| 08:38 | <alkisg> SCREEN_01=login, always
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| 08:38 | SCREEN_07=ldm, usually
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| 08:38 | <Gadi> its ridiculous that we use vt7 anyways
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| 08:38 | <alkisg> That, by default, says "the higher is X" :D
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| 08:38 | <Gadi> SCREEN_01 is never defined
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| 08:38 | <alkisg> It isn't, but the login prompt is there
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| 08:39 | <Gadi> well, the first one to working code wins
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| 08:39 | :P
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| 08:39 | <alkisg> Heheh
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| 08:39 | * alkisg gives up :P | |
| 08:39 | <Gadi> I was going to say -> which will prolly be you
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| 08:39 | * Gadi switches gears.... | |
| 08:39 | <alkisg> Nah, I have to fight with CK... :(
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| 09:13 | thunsucker has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:14 | <markit> alkisg: btw, do you know how can I have ltsp client load kernel,load X-Server and then try to login in a different GNU/Linux host? (not the ltsp server one)
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| 09:15 | ?
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| 09:15 | <alkisg> !lts.conf
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| 09:15 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "lts.conf" :: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
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| 09:15 | <alkisg> See SERVER (or is it LDM_SERVER? not sure) there...
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| 09:15 | <markit> thanks
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| 09:16 | <markit> btw2: do you know if I can run only SOME app locally?
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| 09:16 | <alkisg> !localapps
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| 09:16 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "localapps" :: to access a tutorial on setting up localapps on jaunty, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPLocalAppsJaunty
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| 09:16 | <alkisg> Erm, that's a little old, but it should give you some hints
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| 09:16 | <markit> alkisg: thanks again :)
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| 09:16 | alkisg: last: is usb pen drive plugin in the client workinf with ubuntu 5.2?
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| 09:17 | I want students to be able to copy back home their work
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| 09:17 | <alkisg> usb sticks? they've been working as long as I'm involved with ltsp..
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| 09:18 | <markit> ehm, when I tried ltsp from debian was not working...
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| 09:18 | you can mount usb sticks and you, only you, can see/access it? and you are able to unmount also?
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| 09:18 | (I mean, every student can plug his usb stick, and is only visible on his desktop)
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| 09:21 | <klausade> markit: did you try with gnome or kde on debian?
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| 09:22 | <ogra> markit, with ltsp you dont unmount ... that happens automatically, you can just yank it out
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| 09:23 | <markit> klausade: well, now I recall that was a rdesktop problem... that installation had to connect to wcrap2003
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| 09:23 | ogra: well, if is still writing to stick? brrr
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| 09:23 | I mean, in my local KDE4, often I copy a file, the stick does not blink until I "unmount" it
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| 09:24 | <ogra> markit, ltspfs cares for it to unmount, just teach your users to wait until the light stops flashing
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| 09:24 | <markit> maybe ltsp is set to write immediatly
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| 09:24 | <ogra> right
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| 09:24 | <markit> fabolous, thanks :)
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| 09:24 | <ogra> the device is actually *only* mounted if there is active read or write going on
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| 09:24 | all the rest of the time (even if you browse it) its not mounted at all
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| 09:24 | <markit> anyone has experience in a school deploy? only 8 clients (if we rise money/donations,we will have 16)
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| 09:25 | wondering how manage video streaming and if someone tested "italk" teacher manager software
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| 09:25 | alkisg has quit IRC | |
| 09:25 | <ogra> its the default in edubuntu
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| 09:25 | <markit> I'm using kubuntu (I'm a KDE lover :))
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| 09:26 | I'll have a look at edubuntu also... maybe I could install edubuntu and then use KDE4?
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| 09:26 | or is it a suicide?
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| 09:27 | <ogra> edubuntu is just a set of selected apps ...
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| 09:27 | go on using kubuntu
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| 09:27 | what i meant to say with the above is that all/most edubuntu ltsp installs use italc ...
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| 09:28 | so its well tested/used
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| 09:28 | <markit> I'm dreaming providing thin clients with decent video and resolution...italk is based upon vnc, wonderinf what performances are if clients get a, just to say, 1920x1080 resolution
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| 09:29 | I'll have a Gbit lan on the server and a Gbit switch, but...
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| 09:29 | <klausade> markit: i have a few hundred ltsp school deployments under my belt, works like a charm every time.
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| 09:29 | <markit> klausade: where are you from?
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| 09:29 | (me Italy)
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| 09:29 | <klausade> norway.
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| 09:29 | <thunsucker> markit: lets switch school's, most of the teachers i work with can't read anything bigger than 1024x768
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| 09:30 | <markit> any suggestion? what is the most problematic aspect? teacher resistence against "not windows solutions"? Proprietary applications for schools? Multimedia?
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| 09:31 | <klausade> markit: if you have powerful enough clients, you should try to get localapps running, or try the half-thick approach that debian-edu has.
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| 09:31 | <markit> at the moment are 1Ghz Athlon/duron with 256MB ram,I'm dreaming about atom based fanless thin clients, but are not much more powerful
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| 09:32 | <johnny> markit, the important thing is ram..
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| 09:32 | <markit> johnny: server will have 8GB, 4core xeon 3220
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| 09:32 | <johnny> i mean on yoru clients for local apps
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| 09:32 | <markit> ah, mmm 256MB is not much
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| 09:33 | <johnny> it's fine for running single apps locally.. just not more 2 intensive apps
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| 09:33 | <markit> video performance will be a problem also... X protocol is not optimized for video playback, right?
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| 09:33 | <johnny> most especially.. firefox/flash ..
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| 09:33 | <markit> firefox is ram-hungry :(
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| 09:34 | <johnny> flash is even worse.. :)
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| 09:34 | <markit> and I'll have to surrender and install proprietary flash player, I suspect
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| 09:34 | <johnny> well. video playback is better if you use localapps
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| 09:34 | <markit> (gnash does not play youtube at the moment, sigh)
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| 09:34 | <johnny> yes.. you will most likely want to use local apps
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| 09:34 | markit, well.. html5 youtube will help
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| 09:34 | but you can't use firefox for that
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| 09:34 | since it uses h.264
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| 09:35 | * markit confused | |
| 09:35 | <johnny> you can use chromium or epiphany (in lucid)
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| 09:35 | or chromium
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| 09:35 | <Gadi> (or opera)
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| 09:35 | <johnny> ah. yes.. or opera
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| 09:35 | <markit> isn't codecs available? in italy thera are not software patents
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| 09:35 | <johnny> markit, firefox isn't built to support it
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| 09:35 | it doesn't use gstreamer like epiphany will
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| 09:36 | <markit> how is that?
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| 09:36 | <johnny> because they don't bundle the codec at all
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| 09:36 | no matter where you are
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| 09:36 | <markit> multimedia is a frontier where our freedom is push back day by day
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| 09:36 | johnny: but what about a plugin?
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| 09:36 | <johnny> let's see how the whole.. "google buying on2" thing shakes out
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| 09:36 | it might lead to an open video solution in the near future
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| 09:37 | <markit> I do cross my fingers
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| 09:37 | <johnny> i don't know if there are such plugins.. you'll have to look
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| 09:37 | <markit> I'm very depressed because people don't care about their freedom in computer things
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| 09:37 | <johnny> aren't we all..
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| 09:37 | <markit> they just "crack" everything, and make fun of you that use free software and donate money to developers
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| 09:38 | <johnny> that's cuz they have never been personally affected.. or don't know how it is effecting them
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| 09:38 | when i explain mindshare to people tho.. they usually get it
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| 09:38 | <Gadi> whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa - let's rewind to "donate money to developers...." ;)
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| 09:38 | <markit> maybe you are much better persuasor than I am :) I usually get depressed or upset, lol
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| 09:38 | <johnny> but there is still no replacement for final cut pro, photoshop, protools markit
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| 09:39 | in the free software world.
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| 09:39 | <markit> Gadi: lol, I usually give some money to some projects...around 150 euros/years, not much but..
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| 09:39 | <johnny> not yet anyways..
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| 09:39 | so.. i can understand people having to purchase those
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| 09:39 | <markit> well, but they use photoshop because they crack it, not because worth 1500 euros
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| 09:40 | <johnny> sure.. but even if they bought it.. doesn't matter
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| 09:40 | <markit> so they don't even take a look at gimp, or donate to gimp to improve it
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| 09:40 | <johnny> there's no replacement
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| 09:40 | i don't think donations are the key to improving gimp
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| 09:40 | i'm sure it would help
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| 09:40 | but there are many other factors
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| 09:40 | you need more developers in general
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| 09:40 | <markit> if you have money, you can have full time developers
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| 09:41 | you can advertise for your program, and gain more attention
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| 09:41 | <johnny> it's not as easy as you think
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| 09:41 | <markit> etc.
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| 09:41 | <johnny> if you are a project of mostly volunteers.. manyh volunteers won't work as hard if others are getting paid
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| 09:41 | there hare been bounties on free software projects before
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| 09:41 | <markit> I know, you could have a reverse effect
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| 09:41 | <johnny> but they discontinued many, because of how they effected the volunteers
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| 09:41 | affected*
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| 09:42 | so throwing money at the problem isn't helpful directly
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| 09:42 | something that comes out the same..
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| 09:42 | would be an organization hiring a developer to work full time on a project
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| 09:42 | with strict rules to work with the community
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| 09:42 | <markit> exactly
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| 09:42 | <johnny> and not running roughshod over everbody cuz they get paid or could just fork it
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| 09:43 | you'd probably have to fire them if they pissed of the community
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| 09:43 | <markit> let's hope I'll become very rich, and I will build such an organization :)
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| 09:43 | back to work now
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| 09:43 | <johnny> by organization.. i mean an external organization.. not the project itself..
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| 09:43 | <markit> I have to earn money for the next donation ;)
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| 09:44 | <johnny> that's why i hire gadi to crack joes in here
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| 09:44 | <markit> johnny: yes, I got it
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| 09:44 | <johnny> jokes*
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| 09:44 | lol
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| 09:44 | /me pokes Gadi
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| 09:44 | <markit> :)
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| 09:44 | thanks a lot for your tips, see you
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| 09:44 | <johnny> bye and good luck
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| 09:44 | <markit> I need it, lol
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| 09:44 | teachers will be a big problem, I suppose
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| 09:44 | they are not very tech-friendly
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| 09:45 | and barely know how to "use" M$ crap
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| 09:45 | <johnny> well.. i'm sure people on the edu lists can help you with that aspect of things
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| 09:45 | not just the technical side
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| 09:45 | but the softer side of things
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| 09:45 | <markit> is there an edu channel also? I hate lists
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| 09:45 | <johnny> there is an edubuntu one
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| 09:45 | i don't know about others
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| 09:45 | perhaps they would know tho
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| 09:45 | <markit> ok, thanks again, bye :)
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| 09:46 | markit has quit IRC | |
| 09:46 | <johnny> i still having found the perfect combination between archivable lists with defined subjects/mails and a chat interface where people can talk more free form
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| 10:19 | <_UsUrPeR_> Can anybody give me a hint about installing firefox as a localapp with chinese (mandarin) support?
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| 10:22 | <alkisg> Ubuntu? I think it just needs language-pack-XX for that...
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| 10:22 | I.e. in Ubuntu the firefox language plugins are in language-pack-XX
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| 10:23 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: great, thanks. :D
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| 10:34 | <vandys> Hi... yesterday I got an eeebox B202 running as a TC using help from here; I had to rebuild my /opt/ltsp/i386 for Karmic to get the LAN driver. Thanks for that help!
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| 10:35 | But now I'm seeing that my existing TC's (NTA's w. 512M of RAM) freeze when somebody logs in with a KDE session (Karmic).
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| 10:35 | I can log in with the more basic ratpoison WM, but that's not going to keep my users happy!
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| 10:36 | thunsucker has quit IRC | |
| 10:36 | <vandys> It seems to be the X server, as if as soon as I start logging in I flip to screen 1 and watch the console, all is well--I can even hear the login tune played. But as soon as I switch back to console 7 the system freezes hard and requires a power cycle.
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| 10:37 | I have NBD swap (512M) set up, and also 512M of physical RAM. Behavior's verified on two different NTA TC stations.
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| 10:38 | Workaround for now is to run different roots for the new unit and (feisty) for the old ones.
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| 10:38 | <stgraber> mgariepy: A customer reported that TIME_SERVER doesn't work and ntp.ubuntu.com is used in all cases (well, whatever is in /etc/default/ntpdate). If you have 5min to look at it (nothing critical).
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| 10:38 | <Gadi> !compiz
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| 10:38 | <ltspbot> Gadi: "compiz" :: if compiz is giving you problems, one way to disable it for all users is: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
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| 10:38 | <Gadi> vandys: try that ^^^^
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| 10:39 | <mgariepy> stgraber, yeah, maybe tonight or tomorrow, this part isn't working well, i'll try to find the bug for this..
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| 10:40 | <vandys> Are you sure? This was a crash on a *KDE* session login?
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| 10:41 | <Gadi> vandys: does KDE not use compiz?
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| 10:41 | <stgraber> Gadi: nope, its window manager does the compositing. No compiz involved
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| 10:41 | <Gadi> ah, nm then
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| 10:44 | <vandys> Yes, it looks like /usr/bin/compiz would be around if I had it.
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| 10:45 | But my daughter on the new eee TC noticed translucent tool bars, so maybe something fancy and new is tripping up the older NTA HW?
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| 10:45 | <Gadi> vandys: try setting XSERVER=vesa
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| 10:46 | that should tell you if its the driver
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| 11:14 | <sbalneav> Whoops! When I rebooted my machine last night, forgot to sign on again
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| 11:14 | Morning all
| |
| 11:15 | <vandys> Ok, after just an unbelievable amount of tediousness, I got it switched over. And the X server refuses to start. At first it was griping about somehow having decided I wanted 24 bits, but even when I overrode it to 16, it still fails to start.
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| 11:16 | <johnny> sbalneav, ever heard of publican?
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| 11:16 | it sounds up your alley in regards to docbook
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| 11:17 | sounds like it makes it easier for others to contribute as well
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| 11:17 | http://jfearn.fedorapeople.org/Publican/
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| 11:17 | <johnny> they use it internally at redhat
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| 11:21 | <sbalneav> johnny: Hmmmm, checking....
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| 11:22 | johnny: Looks cool! I'll poke into it this week.
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| 11:22 | Thanks for the link
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| 11:33 | <vandys> Gadi, thanks for the help. I'm going to see if I can attach a serial console so I can see more about the failure even with the display frozen.
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| 11:39 | * alkisg is getting closer with CK and LTSP... it seems that the problem is that we don't run X 2>somelogfile, but we redirect it to null instead :( | |
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| 12:14 | <jammcq> sbalneav: Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 12:23 | <stgraber> alkisg: and what's different between 2> /var/log/X.<VT>.err.log and 2> /dev/null ?
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| 12:24 | <alkisg> stgraber: I'm diving into the consolekit sources, and it turns out that it looks in /proc/`pidof X`/fd/2 to get the x11-display-device
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| 12:24 | <stgraber> that's ugly
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| 12:24 | <alkisg> Now if only I could compile a debug version of it, without downloading 400MB of tex-related dependencies... :-/
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| 12:37 | * alkisg installs 459MB of consolekit build-deps... :( | |
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| 12:54 | <_UsUrPeR_> Hey guys, I am not seeing anything installed on the server, which displays chinese content correctly, that needs to be installed as a localapp in order to display chinese fonts pages correctly in localapp firefox.
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| 12:54 | <_UsUrPeR_> Is there a package that I am overlooking?
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| 12:59 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: so now you're seeing chinese but with broken fonts?
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| 12:59 | Or just english?
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| 12:59 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: it's showing all broken fonts. Little squares with numbers and letters in them
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| 13:00 | <alkisg> OK, then you're probably just missing some fonts, language support etc
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| 13:01 | Try searching in synaptic for -lc (Language Code)
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| 13:02 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: I have thus far installed language-pack-zh-hans, language-pack-zh-hans-base, language-pack-zh-hant, language-pack-zh-hant-base, language-pack-gnome-zh-hans, language-pack-gnome-zh-hans-base, language-pack-gnome-zh-hant, language-pack-gnome-zh-hant-base
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| 13:02 | Firefox even pops up stating that there have been new language support packages installed
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| 13:02 | <alkisg> Search for -zh in your server
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| 13:02 | And see what it has installed
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| 13:02 | E.g. language-support-zh etc
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| 13:03 | dpkg -l '*-zh*'
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| 13:03 | <_UsUrPeR_> dpkg -l |grep -i zh results in no returns
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| 13:04 | hmm
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| 13:04 | <AndyGraybeal> _UsUrPeR_: dood i'm gonna purchase one of your boxen to test with
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| 13:04 | <_UsUrPeR_> AndyGraybeal: cool :)
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| 13:04 | <AndyGraybeal> for my biz.. i got permission to order in may
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| 13:05 | Lns has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:05 | <AndyGraybeal> but i'm gonna order one now to test with then order some more in may
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| 13:05 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: ok, dpkg -l '*-zh*' results in three results. manpages-zh, openoffice.org-help-zh-cn, openoffice.org-help-zh-tw
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| 13:05 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: but can you see chinese with just those packages?
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| 13:06 | I mean, without using firefox as a localapp, are you able to see chinese?
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| 13:06 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: yes. In firefox, on the server, if I go to http://vn.yahoo.com, I all the fonts appear as normal
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| 13:06 | s/vn/cn
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| 13:07 | <alkisg> Ah, no, that's just fonts
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| 13:08 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: if I go to yahoo.cn from the client, not running as a localapp, all fonts appear correctly as well.
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| 13:08 | * _UsUrPeR_ looks for chinese fonts | |
| 13:08 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: copy/paste does work then, right?
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| 13:08 | I.e. copying the broken fonts to a gedit window
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| 13:08 | <_UsUrPeR_> oooh, good question. un moment
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| 13:09 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: you can find which package installs a font by doing e.g.: dpkg -S /usr/share/fonts/truetype/thai/Garuda.ttf
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| 13:09 | <Lns> Ok, testing ubu lucid.. never ran into this since I always had i386 server...now that i'm on AMD64, is there a good reason for an LTSP server to have the -server kernel instead of -desktop ?
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| 13:11 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: that's an affirmative. Copying from ltsp-localapps firefox's broken fonts to a notepad on the client works correctly
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| 13:11 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: ok, just compare the font directories then, on your server and on the chroot
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| 13:11 | dpkg -S /usr/share/fonts/truetype/thai/Garuda.ttf etc etc
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| 13:21 | <johnny> hmm.. i have a similiar problem in ubuntu about the -server kernel
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| 13:22 | for some reason it keeps forcing me to use the -server kernel
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| 13:28 | <Lns> johnny: and you think the -desktop kernel is better suited for ltsp setup?
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| 13:28 | <johnny> if you're running a desktop on the servere machine .. yes :)
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| 13:28 | the ltsp server is also the point of sale machine
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| 13:29 | btw.. i probably wouldn't have noticed
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| 13:29 | except when choosing -server.. the keyboard stopped working
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| 13:29 | ps2 or usb
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| 13:29 | <Lns> heh
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| 13:30 | well you're essentially running all ltsp user sessions on the server (else localapps), just wondering if the remote X session is somehow more optimized in -server..
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| 13:30 | <johnny> doubt it
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| 13:30 | <Lns> s/localapps/localapps or fatclient/
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| 13:30 | <johnny> it's optimized for desktop applications in general
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| 13:30 | <Lns> yea
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| 13:31 | <johnny> thus.. i think a desktop kernel would be best for ltsp in general
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| 13:31 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: got it! :D ttf-wqy-zenhei and ttf-ufonts! :D
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| 13:31 | <johnny> but i could be wrong in that..
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| 13:31 | <Lns> only reason i used it before was because i had i386 & 8GB ram
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| 13:31 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: nice :)
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| 13:31 | <_UsUrPeR_> thx for your help
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| 13:36 | <joeasaurus> Gadi?
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| 13:46 | <mgariepy> does anybody is able to make firefox use remote apps for mimestype present on the appserver ?
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| 13:51 | <Lns> Ok, since I'm new to LTSP on Lucid (or anything recent =p), did the ltsp-build-client *default* to i386 ? I supplied no arguments on my AMD64 install and it built an i386 image.
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| 14:00 | <johnny> suprising..
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| 14:00 | <Lns> oh nevermind
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| 14:00 | heh.. forgot about my ltsp-build-client.conf according to fatclient howto =p
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| 14:01 | <johnny> that's what i do on gentoo
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| 14:01 | and what happens on fedora
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| 14:01 | not sure about debian
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| 14:07 | <vandys> Hi, Gadi, me again. While working on my Karmic problem, I need to run with my old Feisty bits in parallel. /opt/ltsp/images seems to be hard-coded; is there a parameter I can use to make my Karmic-needing boxes to use a Karmic-specific path for this file?
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| 14:10 | <Lns> hmm, what's the diff between "ltsp-build-client --fat-client-desktop" and "ltsp-build-client --fat-client" ? And Gadi, no "yo mama's fat client" jokes please! =p
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| 14:11 | <alkisg> Gadi, stgraber: sudo cat /proc/`pidof X`/stat ==> the 7th field there is the tty. In a normal ubuntu session, it's non-zero. In an ltsp session, it's zero - and that seems to be the CK problem. What sets this?
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| 14:11 | <Gadi> well, hi everyone
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| 14:11 | :)
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| 14:12 | <alkisg> Heh... hi! :)
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| 14:12 | <Gadi> joeasaurus: present
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| 14:12 | * Lns greets Gadi | |
| 14:12 | <alkisg> We missed you :D
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| 14:12 | <vandys> Heh, welcome back! :-)
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| 14:12 | <joeasaurus> hey :)
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| 14:12 | Well, with the help of alkisg (I was cluster earlier btw) I managed to get the thin clients booting
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| 14:12 | <Gadi> vandys: you can add a line to /etc/inetd.conf to export the image on a different port, and then set a pexlinux.cfg/ file with nbdport=
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| 14:13 | <alkisg> Lns: --fat-client ==> uses the desktop that the server has, --fat-client-desktop ==> you need to specify one, e.g. ubuntu-desktop, edubuntu-gnome-desktop etc. ***Please someone correct the ltsp-build-client --extra-help description for this*** :)
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| 14:13 | <Gadi> Lns: yo mama's thin client's so fat that her fat-client-desktop is gigantubuntu-desktop
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| 14:14 | <joeasaurus> the big issue was how tftp refused to start. I have more questions though :)
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| 14:14 | <Gadi> alkisg: smells like openvt
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| 14:14 | <alkisg> Uh... another thing to learn about :)
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| 14:15 | It's nice spending days learning about how linux components operate, but it'd be better if I had some actual results in the last days...
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| 14:16 | <Lns> alkisg: =) ty!!
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| 14:16 | <joeasaurus> so, atm I have the cluster set up with a head node (ub0) and two application nodes (ub1, ub2)
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| 14:16 | <Lns> Gadi: HAHHAHA!!! sbalneav, you need to update your fortune file to include ^^^^
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| 14:17 | <joeasaurus> when I go into the admin webpage for ltsp and search the cluster, it can only find ub1
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| 14:17 | I thought it might be a hosts file problem but its not as all the hosts files are correct
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| 14:19 | <alkisg> What does ubuntu use nowadays, instead of openvt?
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| 14:26 | <Lns> alkisg: do you mind if I alter your fatclient wiki page to 1) add in how to do it via ltsp-build-client w/fatclient parms, and 2) edit your portion to simply assume you've already got a working LTSP setup (at least that you've installed the packages, and maybe refer to that wiki page instead of re-writing it) ?
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| 14:27 | <alkisg> Lns, no problem at all, go ahead
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| 14:27 | <Lns> cool
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| 14:27 | <Gadi> alkisg: once upon a time, we used to call the screen scripts directly (from screen_session) without using openvt
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| 14:27 | <alkisg> Lns, and if you think some more bits/scripts are needed, tell me to make them
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| 14:28 | <Gadi> alkisg: I suspect openvt may attach to a tty but what it runs attaches to it
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| 14:28 | <alkisg> Gadi, if I create a user, login to vt1 with that user, and run startx, everything's fine...
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| 14:28 | <mad_willsy> I wish to connect to a server-pc with ubuntu-ltsp installed from a laptop which i wish to be able to use when I am not able to access the server, without dual-boot if possible. I wish for somebody to be able to use server like a normal PC at the same time so VNC is not an option
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| 14:28 | <Lns> alkisg: no prob
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| 14:28 | thx
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| 14:28 | <Gadi> alkisg: right
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| 14:28 | alkisg: but ldm runs from openvt
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| 14:28 | <alkisg> Got it - I'll try on vt2 next (shell session)
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| 14:29 | So, is there a way to completely remove openvt?
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| 14:29 | * Gadi is unclear why we moved to openvt | |
| 14:29 | <alkisg> I haven't yet completely understood the whole concept...
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| 14:29 | * Gadi thinks rev. linux did that | |
| 14:29 | <alkisg> uh, stgraber, any clues? :)
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| 14:30 | <Gadi> alkisg: see what happens if you change the line in screen_session
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| 14:30 | <alkisg> mad_willsy: freenx?
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| 14:30 | <Gadi> to not use openvt
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| 14:31 | <alkisg> Gadi, thanks, I'll try
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| 14:31 | <mad_willsy> alkisg: what machine i need to install that on and does it support itunes?
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| 14:32 | <alkisg> mad_willsy: you need to install the freenx-server to the ltsp server and the nx client to your laptop. I've no idea about itunes.
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| 14:32 | * Gadi wonders why vnc is not an option unless the server is windows | |
| 14:33 | <mad_willsy> can you get freenx-server for ubuntu-ltsp and nx client for windows 7?
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| 14:33 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 14:33 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeNX
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| 14:34 | <mad_willsy> i only have 1 ethernet card, does that pose an issue?
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| 14:34 | also laptop uses wifi to connect to router and server-pc ethernet
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| 14:35 | <Lns> Gadi: I <3 vnc. Unless NX got WAY easier to install, and WAY lighter on resources, I don't mind waiting a couple of seconds for some things to refresh in vnc. I use it over the net w/SSL wrapper all the time!
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| 14:35 | err, ssh
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| 14:36 | <alkisg> mad_willsy: you should be ok
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| 14:36 | <mad_willsy> vnc is no good because i need to be able to allow users to use the server as a workstation for when i have friends round to play poker online
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| 14:36 | <alkisg> Lns: nx is easier to install than vnc, for separate sessions
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| 14:36 | mad_willsy: you _can_ setup vnc for separate sessions
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| 14:37 | <mad_willsy> ok so i install unbuntu-server, install freenx-server and get nx client for windows 7 to connect in almost the same way as you do vnc i assume?
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| 14:37 | <alkisg> Yes, it's similar
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| 14:38 | Gadi, I tried this: SCREEN_02=shell (==openvt), then adduser user, then sudo -i -u user, then startx. That's on top of openvt, so it "should" have problems - but that also worked fine.
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| 14:38 | <Gadi> hmm
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| 14:39 | <mad_willsy> vnc may then infact suit my needs better then as i wish to be able to connect to the TS remotely, i have ddns etc and working vnc server at the moment on windows xp.
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| 14:54 | <vandys> Ok, here's why an NTA TC on a Karmic /opt/ltsp fails for KDE:
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| 14:54 | X: main/renderbuffer.c:2159: _mesa_reference_renderbuffer: Assertion `oldRb->Magic == 0xaabbccdd' failed
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| 14:55 | I had to run X manually on a serial terminal with a manually started with getty from the TC in order to see this message...
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| 14:55 | <Lns> Apologies for the noob q, I can't seem to find the docs online (if there are any).. how do you specify a specific chroot to use for specific clients?
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| 14:56 | <alkisg> Lns, use different ports in pxelinux.cfg/01-mac-address
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| 14:56 | 2000=first chroot, 2001=second chroot etc
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| 14:56 | You can see the ports in /etc/inetd.conf
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| 14:58 | <Lns> alkisg: oh, ok, cool. How heavy is nbdrootd? Would it be more sane to somehow be able to specify the root directly in pxelinux.cfg/01-mac-address instead of spawning multiple nbdrootd ?
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| 14:59 | <alkisg> Lns, I think the best start is "why do you need multiple chroots?"
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| 14:59 | <Lns> alkisg: well unless i'm going about it wrong, one for fat clients, one for thin clients, one for localapps... ? Maybe i can put localapps/thin client together, but not sure about fat
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| 14:59 | <alkisg> You can have all 3 of them in the same chroot
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| 14:59 | <Lns> !! =) sweeeet
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| 14:59 | <ltspbot> Lns: Error: "!" is not a valid command.
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| 15:00 | <Lns> heh
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| 15:00 | <alkisg> ...as long as your clients have at least 256 ram - do they?
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| 15:00 | <Lns> alkisg: no, a bunch have only 128
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| 15:00 | <alkisg> Hmm you'd need another chroot for those, then. Or to disable some services manualy
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| 15:03 | <vandys> If I want to add ServerFlags and Extensions sections to the TC's xorg.conf, how do I set that up on the server side?
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| 15:08 | <highvoltage> hmm, besides putting the guestlogin line in lts.conf, is there anything else I need to do to make it work?
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| 15:08 | currently when I click on the login as guest button LDM just kicks me out
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| 15:08 | and I can't see anything meaningful in the ldm.log file
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| 15:09 | <Lns> highvoltage: you need LDM_USERNAME, LDM_PASSWORD and LDM_ALLOW_GUEST vars in there (at least from 8.04, not sure if anything changed)
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| 15:09 | <johnny> alkisg, but why
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| 15:09 | <stgraber> highvoltage: as Lns said :) I was just going to type something like that.
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| 15:09 | <johnny> why not --fat-client <desktop>
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| 15:09 | and default to server desktop
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| 15:09 | i'm confused
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| 15:09 | <stgraber> highvoltage: in a ltsp-cluster setup, guest login accounts are created on the fly. That part of the code is very different from regular LTSP.
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| 15:09 | <johnny> why does'nt it just take an argument?
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| 15:10 | <alkisg> johnny: the way ltsp-build-client plugins work, you can register a plugin that either has a parameter or it hasn't
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| 15:10 | <johnny> you mean there's no way to say the parameter isn't required?
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| 15:10 | <alkisg> You can't register a plugin with an optional parameter...
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| 15:10 | Right
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| 15:10 | <johnny> that sounds like a bug
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| 15:10 | <alkisg> Patches welcome :)
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| 15:10 | <highvoltage> Lns, stgraber: ok thanks
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| 15:11 | stgraber: I'm going to create a guest user on our livecd session then too
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| 15:11 | stgraber: I think it will be useful especially since we'll save some network traffic if the $HOME directory lives in client RAM
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| 15:13 | <stgraber> highvoltage: ok
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| 15:14 | highvoltage: did you set the lts.conf key to not check for ssh key validity ?
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| 15:14 | highvoltage: otherwise the ssh connection will fail when checking the server's fingerprint
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| 15:16 | <alkisg> If I change the last line in screen.d/ldm,
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| 15:16 | xinit $xinitrc /usr/sbin/ldm -- ${DISPLAY} vt${TTY} -auth ${XAUTHORITY} ${X_ARGS} -br >/dev/null 2>&1
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| 15:16 | to just: xinit $xinitrc xterm
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| 15:16 | then /proc/`pidof X`/stats contains a non-zero tty, and CK works properly...
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| 15:16 | <highvoltage> stgraber: yes
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| 15:16 | stgraber: so far I can log in just fine with my normal user
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| 15:16 | <stgraber> highvoltage: great
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| 15:16 | <alkisg> highvoltage: would it be possible to add e.g. 12 users along with the guest one?
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| 15:17 | <stgraber> alkisg: as we already openvt the right vt, you may want to try dropping hte vt${TTY} part of that xinit call
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| 15:17 | <alkisg> It would make it more usable, when written to a usb stick of course..
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| 15:17 | k, trying...
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| 15:17 | <stgraber> alkisg: well, the user management tool will be there anyway, so I guess they can easily create some more if needed
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| 15:18 | <alkisg> stgraber: sure, but the whole concept is to enable them to test - they can't really test with 1 user...
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| 15:18 | <stgraber> though having one account created to have the guest login working would be great
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| 15:18 | <highvoltage> alkisg: I guess so. why would you need them if all the live session users could use the guest user though?
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| 15:18 | <alkisg> highvoltage: you can't login as the same user multiple times
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| 15:18 | <stgraber> highvoltage: only one user will be able to use the guest user
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| 15:18 | <alkisg> Firefox will only start for the first login..
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| 15:18 | <stgraber> highvoltage: otherwise you have the risk of locking and gconf corruption if the same user is logged in multiple times
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| 15:19 | <highvoltage> bummer.
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| 15:19 | I just want to understand this right, can I only define one guest user?
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| 15:20 | <alkisg> No, you can define any number
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| 15:20 | But it's not easy to assign them to specific terminals
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| 15:20 | <stgraber> alkisg: isn't the "LTSP way" of having guest users using the mac address as login or something like that ?
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| 15:20 | <alkisg> username=ltsp123, password=ltsp123
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| 15:20 | To make that work, you'd need e.g. 255 users
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| 15:21 | I don't think that's too bad, though...
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| 15:21 | <highvoltage> nope, adding users is quick
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| 15:21 | * stgraber wished we had a ltsp-cluster setup on the DVD :) | |
| 15:21 | <highvoltage> stgraber: lucid+1? :)
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| 15:21 | <stgraber> with the accountmanager we'd have these accounts created on the fly, tracked with CK and cleaned+reset on logout ;)
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| 15:22 | highvoltage: maybe :)
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| 15:22 | <alkisg> stgraber: it'd be nice if some features of ltsp-cluster were intergrated to the standard ltsp...
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| 15:22 | <stgraber> I actually hope to have the new daemon infrastructure used in LTSP itself, so only the Control Center would be ltsp-cluster specific
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| 15:22 | <alkisg> E.g. getting lts.conf with wget ;)
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| 15:23 | Awesome
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| 15:23 | <stgraber> basically everything would use the same code, only the configuration/logging backend would be different and offer a bit more features when it's used
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| 15:24 | <alkisg> highvoltage: so, about the users, if you create ltsp1 to ltsp255, with the same passwords as the usersnames, and set LDM_GUESTLOGIN=True, that would work for /24 networks
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| 15:24 | I.e. 255.255.255.X (or smaller subnets)
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| 15:25 | <highvoltage> yes that shouldl be fine for a live session
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| 15:25 | <alkisg> For larger subnets, they'd still need to type the usersnames/passwords manually, as the clients could be named e.g. ltsp12345
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| 15:25 | <highvoltage> people wouldn't want to run more than a ahandful of users from a livecd anyway
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| 15:25 | (or flash disk or whatever)
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| 15:25 | <alkisg> Sure, but if their site subnet was bigger, they'd still need to type the username/password manually
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| 15:26 | So we should mention the usernames/passwords somewhere
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| 15:26 | <highvoltage> *nod*
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| 15:32 | <alkisg> stgraber: btw, there's this call in X95-run-x-session:
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| 15:32 | su - ${LDM_USERNAME} -c "$CLIENT_ENV $MY_LANG DISPLAY=$DISPLAY ICEAUTHORITY=$ICEAUTHORITY XAUTHORITY=$XAUTHORITY $LDM_XSESSION $LDM_SESSION"
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| 15:32 | could I change that to sudo -i, because su creates an additional CK session?
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| 15:32 | <stgraber> are we sure absolutely all distros using recent LTSP have sudo ?
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| 15:33 | <alkisg> Nope, but I'm sure all distros that support fat clients do :P
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| 15:33 | <stgraber> yeah but that line is not fat client specifc ;)
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| 15:33 | or is it ?
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| 15:33 | <alkisg> if ! boolean_is_true "$LTSP_FATCLIENT"; then ==> it's on the "else" part
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| 15:33 | <stgraber> hmm, ok, then use sudo ;)
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| 15:33 | <alkisg> ;)
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| 15:33 | <stgraber> we're the only one supporting fat client anyway and we have sudo for sure :)
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| 15:34 | <highvoltage> hmm, creating 255 users takes quite some time in my virtualbox machine (around 20 seconds)
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| 15:34 | I guess that could be brought down a bit
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| 15:34 | <alkisg> highvoltage: how are you creating them?
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| 15:34 | <stgraber> highvoltage: adduser or useradd ?
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| 15:34 | <highvoltage> alkisg, stgraber: useradd
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| 15:34 | <stgraber> oh, that should be fast ...
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| 15:35 | <alkisg> highvoltage: that's too long, I got a script that does it in under 1 sec, wait...
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| 15:35 | <highvoltage> could be that virtualbox is just a bit slow for that
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| 15:35 | <stgraber> highvoltage: any difference if you tell it not to look and copy /etc/skel ?
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| 15:36 | <highvoltage> stgraber: eek, it's not even creating home directories currently
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| 15:36 | grantk has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:36 | <grantk> Hello
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| 15:36 | <stgraber> highvoltage: very odd then ...
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| 15:37 | <highvoltage> for now I have:
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| 15:37 | <alkisg> Uh, no, I'm also using useradd (from python)
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| 15:37 | But it's really really fast
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| 15:37 | <highvoltage> # Create LTSP Guest Users:
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| 15:37 | for user in {1..255}; do
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| 15:37 | useradd ltsp$user
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| 15:37 | echo "ltsp$user:ltsp$user" | chpasswd &
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| 15:37 | done
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| 15:37 | <grantk> Does anyone know if a heavy printer is penalized with ltsp? By penalized I mean their job priority changes to a lower priority? I would think it to be a cups issue but the reason I ask is this just changed for me this week when I moved a printer that uses the jetpipe script from ltsp 4.2 to ltsp5.
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| 15:39 | <alkisg> highvoltage: can you time the useradd calls independed of the chpasswd calls?
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| 15:39 | <stgraber> 12s on my laptop
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| 15:39 | that's with an Intel SSD ...
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| 15:39 | <alkisg> If the chpasswd calls are the ones that are slow, you can pass the password as a command line parameter to useradd
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| 15:40 | <stgraber> highvoltage: btw, you probably should use: for user in $(seq 1 255); do
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| 15:40 | highvoltage: the {1..255} looks like a bashism as it failed in dash here
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| 15:41 | highvoltage: also, you may want to use the same group for all users, that should limit writes to /etc/group
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| 15:41 | <highvoltage> stgraber: it is a bashism indeed, aparently you should only use seq if you're using bash and it's bash <3.0
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| 15:41 | stgraber: but I'll change it to sec then and change to dash and see if that speeds things up
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| 15:41 | <alkisg> highvoltage: and, if the user creation is slow, you can use "newusers" instead
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| 15:42 | <stgraber> alkisg: 12s for the whole thing, 9s for only the useradds
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| 15:42 | <alkisg> OK, newusers it is then
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| 15:42 | 9s is too long for 255 users
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| 15:42 | <stgraber> removing them is a lot slower ;)
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| 15:43 | <alkisg> Why would we? :D
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| 15:43 | <stgraber> well, I try not to have 255 users on my laptop with obvious passwords ;)
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| 15:43 | <highvoltage> stgraber: ubiquity wouldn't move over those users
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| 15:44 | <stgraber> highvoltage: indeed
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| 15:44 | <alkisg> highvoltage: man newusers, it should be much faster & better suited
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| 15:44 | <highvoltage> I agree there should be a quiick and easy way to remove them
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| 15:45 | <stgraber> highvoltage: well, I replaced that by a line of sed and rm -Rf /home/ltsp* :)
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| 15:46 | <highvoltage> stgraber: :)
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| 15:48 | hmm... since the home directories will be tmpfs mounted, do they actually need to be different?
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| 15:48 | <alkisg> Yeah, removing vt from the X command line fixes the CK problem :)
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| 15:48 | <highvoltage> or will that also cause some funny business with gconf somehow?
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| 15:48 | <alkisg> ...but it makes X start in vt4 instead of vt7 :D
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| 15:49 | <stgraber> alkisg: does that affect the flickerless boot in lucid ?
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| 15:49 | rjune has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:49 | <stgraber> alkisg: btw, is plymouth working properly at the moment on LTSP in lucid ? (haven't had a thin client around for two weeks :))
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| 15:49 | nubae has quit IRC | |
| 15:49 | <alkisg> Uh, I've no idea, I don't have an intel client to test near me
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| 15:49 | *for the flickerless boot
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| 15:49 | <stgraber> highvoltage: you'll have permission issues + potential file conflicts
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| 15:50 | <alkisg> plymouth works in vbox and in an ati client I have around, the same as in lucid, i.e. so and so
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| 15:50 | <stgraber> highvoltage: so go with one home directory per user
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| 15:50 | <highvoltage> stgraber: I might have made a wrong assumption, aren't the guest users home directories tmpfs mounted so that the changes only occur in RAM on the thin clients?
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| 15:50 | <stgraber> alkisg: what are your thin clients ? flickerless should work with ATI (open source driver), Nvidia (nouveau) and Intel (usual driver)
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| 15:51 | highvoltage: I don't think so
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| 15:51 | <highvoltage> stgraber: ok
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| 15:51 | <alkisg> stgraber: I'm currently testing with vbox - let me get it working first and I'll check about flickerless login tomorrow...
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| 15:51 | <stgraber> highvoltage: that will be on tmpfs because /cow is mounted in tmpfs (as in, everything you do in the live session is on a tmpfs) but we don't automatically mount a tmpfs over the home directory
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| 15:52 | <vandys> Gadi, if I do a partial xorg.conf just for ServerFlags, can I feed that to X_CONFIG and assume the X server will dig up the rest for itself?
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| 15:52 | <stgraber> vandys: yes, it'll
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| 15:52 | <alkisg> stgraber: I wonder if the opposite would work, i.e. leave the vt in the xorg call, and don't use openvt for that screen session...
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| 15:53 | <Lns> does "ltsp-build-client --late-packages" automatically install most applications in the chroot or do you need to specify with "--late-packages" ?
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| 15:53 | <stgraber> alkisg: well, the openvt call is potentially required for things like that menu Gadi implemented, the login script and the ssh script
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| 15:53 | <Lns> crap, i mean "ltsp-build-client --fat-client" in the first one
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| 15:53 | <stgraber> alkisg: so having it for everything with the logic I implemented and mgariepy fixed that detects current vt and doesn't switch if not required
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| 15:53 | <alkisg> lns, it installs about what you can find in the live cd
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| 15:53 | <Lns> alkisg: cool, ty :)
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| 15:54 | <stgraber> alkisg: openvt also does "VT cleanup" which is useful if something crashed on the VT and didn't release it properly
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| 15:54 | <alkisg> stgraber: it doesn't really work ok yet... it still needs fixing (the vt switching logic)
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| 15:54 | <stgraber> alkisg: though everything related to VT is usually kernel black magic ;)
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| 15:54 | <alkisg> stgraber: also, I don't see `openvt` in my normal lucid installation - so maybe there's a cleaner way to do it...
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| 15:54 | (I mean openvt processes running)
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| 15:55 | <vandys> Is there a way to wildcard some of the MAC address matching in lts.conf?
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| 15:55 | <alkisg> vandys: mac* should work...
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| 15:55 | <vandys> And what is the clause to reference a bunch of common stuff from a previous lts.conf entry?
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| 15:55 | <stgraber> alkisg: it's upstart doing it with the tty scripts + the gdm script
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| 15:55 | alkisg: though we can't really depend on upstart in LTSP yet to do everything for us
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| 15:56 | <alkisg> Uhm so we can't use it because not all the... right
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| 15:56 | <stgraber> alkisg: I did some test scripts using upstart instead our init scripts, it's extremely fast and generally more reliable
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| 15:56 | <vandys> (Thanks) Finally, are hex digits in the match case sensitive?
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| 15:56 | <mgariepy> alkisg, do you have more bugs with vt switching ?
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| 15:56 | <stgraber> alkisg: though if you look at LP, there's currently 50 bugs about gdm starting on the wrong VT in regular lucid :)
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| 15:56 | <alkisg> Heh!
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| 15:57 | mgariepy: kinda. If I put SCREEN_02=shell and SCREEN_07=ldm, half of the times I'm staying in SCREEN_02
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| 15:57 | <stgraber> something to do with plymouth, keybuk is working on it and a fixed plymouth should be released in a day or two
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| 15:57 | <alkisg> That's not really a bug, but it's not convenient
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| 15:57 | mgariepy: But, *only* if I switch quickly to vt7, X starts
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| 15:57 | <stgraber> alkisg: are we sure of the parsing order of the environment ? is 02 actually checked before 07 ? :)
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| 15:57 | <alkisg> If I switch after 2-3 minutes, it doesn't start at all..
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| 15:58 | <mgariepy> hmm ik, i tested that i it didn't happen, i rebooted like 10 times and everything was working ok.
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| 15:58 | <alkisg> mgariepy: in all my vbox test it worked fine
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| 15:58 | In an ati client, it doesn't
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| 15:58 | <stgraber> X is a bit picky, you need to be on the vt to have it start, otherwise it hangs and wait for you to switch on it. A few months ago I could wait hours before switching and it'd kick in the second I switch to it
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| 15:58 | <alkisg> It only works ok half (or less) of the times...
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| 15:59 | <stgraber> mgariepy: might be interesting to test with the CSRS thin client at the office
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| 15:59 | as it's ATI and KMS works fine on it with lucid
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| 15:59 | <mgariepy> stgraber, yes ltsp-client-core passes screen 01 to 12 or something, then it depend on what gets executed.
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| 15:59 | <alkisg> stgraber: I think those screen scripts run in parallel, so we can't be sure of which one starts first
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| 16:00 | <stgraber> we might have a SCREEN_DEFAULT=XX value to force a specific vt
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| 16:00 | <alkisg> vandys: they shouldn't be case sensitive
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| 16:00 | <mgariepy> we are sure that screen_01 starts first (it's a for) but it's not sure that it finishes first ;)
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| 16:00 | <stgraber> that way once all screen scripts started, we can look at the current vt, if it's not the right one, do a chvt to the right one
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| 16:01 | <alkisg> Gadi said he'd work on something like that
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| 16:01 | <stgraber> AFAIK we also have our set of race conditions with upstart's tty scripts :) like on my laptop where gdm is loaded before plymouth shows up ;)
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| 16:02 | <alkisg> Woah
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| 16:02 | <stgraber> yeah, a complete boot sequence from initrd to loaded gnome session takes around 7s on that laptop :)
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| 16:02 | * alkisg is seeing ldm as his desktop background for a while, with the gnome panels on top... | |
| 16:02 | <stgraber> and it's an alpha-1 upgraded, not even a clean install
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| 16:03 | alkisg: I actually like that quite a lot
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| 16:03 | <vandys> Ugh, it's LIKE. Not documented anywhere, but found a k12ltsp example with it! :->
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| 16:03 | <mgariepy> the screen_session script should be reviewed i think half the stuff in there is deprecated but i'm not 100% sure.
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| 16:03 | <stgraber> alkisg: it makes the login experience a lot better
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| 16:03 | <alkisg> I think logging in now takes longer than booting
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| 16:03 | I.e. I can boot in 20 seconds and I need 40 seconds to login...
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| 16:03 | <stgraber> mgariepy: when I did the VT switch stuff, I did a review of all that script ... I don't "think" we have anything that's not used in some weird cases in there
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| 16:05 | <highvoltage> it took 14 seconds in my VM with newusers
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| 16:05 | <mgariepy> lines 44 through 64
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| 16:06 | stgraber, why do we need to know what is the currect tty ? as far as i'm concern i don't care as long as the ldm is in front at the end.
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| 16:07 | <highvoltage> alkisg: I think what we'll do is, limit the dhcp range to about 40 addresses and then just create those 40 users
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| 16:07 | <stgraber> mgariepy: because if you do a call to chvt or openvt when you already are on the right vt, that'll make plymouth to disappear, the screen will flicker to a black screen and show some output.
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| 16:07 | <alkisg> highvoltage: if we're going to use proxydhcp (as well as normal dhcp), we don't have access to the dhcp range
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| 16:07 | <mgariepy> plus variable are initialized with certain value that are not true when the main() makes another loop.
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| 16:07 | <alkisg> highvoltage: did you try `newusers` ?
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| 16:07 | <stgraber> mgariepy: if you don't do chvt/openvt in this case, you'll get the waiting cursor on top of plymouth, then fadding to a working ldm without any flicker
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| 16:08 | <highvoltage> alkisg: yes, it took 14s in my vm
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| 16:08 | alkisg: so definitely an improvement
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| 16:08 | <alkisg> Uh... still too much
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| 16:08 | Does it have a switch not to create home dirs?
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| 16:08 | <mgariepy> so the -s switch the vt breaks that ?
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| 16:09 | <stgraber> mgariepy: nope, because in the case where we are on the wrong VT, we have to switch and then it'll flicker but we don't have a choice there.
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| 16:09 | mgariepy: the extra code is to make absolutely sure that we actually need to switch VT
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| 16:09 | mgariepy: in the past we'd just openvt in all cases and that was causing the flicker
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| 16:09 | * alkisg wonders why it worked fine on karmic and broke on lucid... | |
| 16:10 | <highvoltage> alkisg: hmm, I have LTSM_GUESTLOGIN=True and all the users added, but the guest login button still doesn't work. is there something obvious I'm still missing?
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| 16:11 | <stgraber> mgariepy: I'll have to do some tests once back home, there I have the exact setup I used to develop that code + I have the bootchart + trace of a working flickerless Lucid
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| 16:11 | <alkisg> highvoltage: LTSP, not LTSM, right?
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| 16:11 | <highvoltage> alkisg: yes :)
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| 16:11 | <stgraber> highvoltage: anything in /var/log/ldm.log on the thin client ?
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| 16:11 | <mgariepy> stgraber, ok
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| 16:11 | <alkisg> highvoltage: LDM_GUESTLOGIN
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| 16:11 | rjune has quit IRC | |
| 16:11 | <highvoltage> stgraber: nope, just that the process exiced with status 0 and that it's respawening
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| 16:12 | <stgraber> highvoltage: weird
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| 16:12 | <highvoltage> alkisg: yes earlier was typo, I have LDM_GUESTLOGIN=True in my config file
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| 16:12 | <stgraber> highvoltage: can you try: ssh ltsp201@192.168.0.254
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| 16:12 | <alkisg> highvoltage: can you upload your lts.conf ?
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| 16:12 | <stgraber> well, with the exact same parameters you pass to ssh
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| 16:12 | to make sure it doesn't prompt for anything
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| 16:13 | <highvoltage> it prompts me to type yes for the ssh key and then asks for the password
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| 16:13 | <Lns> alkisg: just updated the FatClient wikipage..I know there are probably errors on it, could you give it a once over? I'm OTL right now but will be back.
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| 16:13 | Anyone else is invited to do the same =)
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| 16:13 | <highvoltage> but no other prompts
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| 16:14 | <Lns> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 16:14 | <alkisg> Lns, I'll have a look tomorrow, thanks
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| 16:14 | (it's getting late)
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| 16:14 | <stgraber> highvoltage: it shouldn't prompt for the password with the SSH options you've set in lts.conf
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| 16:14 | CAN-o-SPAM has quit IRC | |
| 16:14 | <stgraber> highvoltage: if it still does, then it'll fail to login
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| 16:15 | <alkisg> stgraber: changed `su` to `sudo` and removed vt from the X command line, and I now have one correct CK session. But, I got ldm on vt3 instead of vt7 :-/
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| 16:15 | <highvoltage> stgraber: does ltsp change the behavior of the ssh client on the thin client?
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| 16:15 | <alkisg> highvoltage: can you pastebin your lts.conf?
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| 16:16 | <stgraber> highvoltage: nope, it's just that it won't accept anything else from ssh than "password:" so if ssh asks for any user input other than the password, it'll fail
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| 16:16 | <highvoltage> I'm sure it's small enough to just paste...
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| 16:16 | [default]
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| 16:16 | LDM_DIRECTX=True
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| 16:16 | LDM_SSHOPTIONS="-o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o CheckHostIP=no -o LogLevel=silent"
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| 16:16 | LDM_GUESTLOGIN=True
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| 16:16 | <alkisg> Yeah that looks fine. Can you login with ltsp1/ltsp1 ?
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| 16:17 | (manually)?
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| 16:17 | <highvoltage> alkisg: yes
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| 16:18 | (hmm, or can I....)
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| 16:18 | seems to take a bit long
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| 16:18 | <stgraber> highvoltage: anything of interest in /var/log/auth.log on the server side ?
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| 16:18 | <mgariepy> hey gtg. my day is over. :)
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| 16:19 | <alkisg> Bye mgariepy
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| 16:19 | <highvoltage> bye mgariepy!
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| 16:19 | <stgraber> see you mgariepy
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| 16:20 | <alkisg> We'll also need some unmounting code for fat clients...
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| 16:20 | ...because after the users log out, the mounts remain
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| 16:20 | -or at least to enable the PK policy for other users to unmount them
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| 16:20 | <stgraber> mounts, as in the home directory ?
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| 16:20 | <highvoltage> sounds like lyrics for some metal song
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| 16:20 | <stgraber> or the usb keys ?
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| 16:20 | <mgariepy> alkisg, for the fat client have you found a solution for the passwd/screensaver ?
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| 16:20 | <alkisg> No, as in the internal hard disk or a cd rom
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| 16:21 | mgariepy: does it prompt? it shouldn't do that by default...
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| 16:21 | <stgraber> highvoltage: ;)
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| 16:21 | <highvoltage> ok log in as guest works now, the permissions on the home directories were incorrect
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| 16:21 | mikkel has quit IRC | |
| 16:21 | <stgraber> ah, that can explain some things indeed ;)
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| 16:21 | <alkisg> mgariepy: I think we disabled the screensaver locking by default - one would need to change the defaults to activate it
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| 16:22 | <mgariepy> alkisg, i use fat client at the office, atom + 2G ram, when my screensaver is there i cannot unlock my screen since there is no ldap or passwd on the TC
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| 16:22 | <alkisg> mgariepy: when did you create the chroot?
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| 16:23 | <stgraber> mgariepy: it shouldn't prompt for a password but maybe we're running an old chroot. That's in the plugin so we need to rebuild.
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| 16:23 | <mgariepy> well i want to have my screen is locked, stgraber works with me ;)
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| 16:23 | <alkisg> About 2-3 weeks ago we started shipping a gconf settings file which should disable screen locking by default
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| 16:23 | <stgraber> mgariepy: I can kill the screensaver anyway ;)
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| 16:23 | <highvoltage> well, I'm calling it a day as well
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| 16:23 | <alkisg> I'm also insisting on a new lts.conf setting that would allow saving the users's hash to /etc/shadow
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| 16:23 | <highvoltage> goodnight!
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| 16:23 | <mgariepy> a few days ago, i last updated it like friday.
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| 16:23 | <stgraber> mgariepy: and have access to your home directory through the file server :)
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| 16:23 | highvoltage: night
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| 16:23 | <mgariepy> lol i know ;)
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| 16:23 | <stgraber> mgariepy: updated but didn't rebuild right ?
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| 16:24 | <alkisg> mgariepy: it gets called on ltsp-build-client
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| 16:24 | <highvoltage> (heh seems like I'm even beeting mgariepy out of here)
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| 16:24 | <mgariepy> attention everyone, if i say i updated my chroot, i rebuilded it as well
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| 16:24 | <stgraber> highvoltage: hehe, you're already at home too. He's to drive back home :) easy to beat him then.
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| 16:24 | <mgariepy> cya highvoltage
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| 16:25 | <alkisg> We're even allowing LDM_PASSWORD, which anyone can get with tftp, an "LDM_STORE_PWHASH_TO_SHADOW" should also be acceptable...
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| 16:25 | <mgariepy> ;)
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| 16:25 | <stgraber> mgariepy: was ltsp-root01.dev up to date using my ppa ?
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| 16:25 | <mgariepy> when i did it yes.
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| 16:25 | it's a few day old though almost a week. ;)
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| 16:25 | <stgraber> mgariepy: ok, so we have 5.2.1~bzrSOMETHING
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| 16:25 | <mgariepy> i'll rebuild it tomorrow i think
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| 16:26 | <alkisg> mgariepy: just look at the directory and see if the file is there
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| 16:26 | /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/gconf/defaults or something
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| 16:26 | <mgariepy> 5.2.0
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| 16:26 | it's a bit old ;)
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| 16:26 | <alkisg> But, I think that defaults don't work if the user has set a different setting. So in that case you'd need to unset that key to get the defaults
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| 16:27 | <stgraber> ah, so that's from RL's PPA, not mine. I have a bzr snapshot currently in mine (karmic + lucid)
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| 16:27 | <mgariepy> maybe it's from archive ;)
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| 16:27 | <stgraber> hmm, right :)
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| 16:27 | <mgariepy> ho no it's yours :P
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| 16:28 | as from last week.
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| 16:28 | <alkisg> cat /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/gconf/defaults/10_ltsp_fat_client
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| 16:28 | /desktop/gnome/lockdown/disable_lock_screen true
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| 16:29 | If you have that there, and it still doesn't work, clear your key with gconf-editor
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| 16:29 | <stgraber> cat: /opt/ltsp/fat/usr/share/gconf/defaults/10_ltsp_fat_client: No such file or directory
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| 16:30 | <alkisg> Not recent enough, then.
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| 16:30 | <stgraber> mgariepy: ltsp-build-client is at 5.2 on ltsp-root01.dev, the package comes from archive, not my PPA
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| 16:30 | mgariepy: the chroot is probably up to date but ltsp-root01.dev isn't
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| 16:30 | <mgariepy> yeah i know, but i still want to be able to lock my screen anyway.
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| 16:31 | <stgraber> mgariepy: that's why I moved it from mandatory to defaults ;)
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| 16:31 | <mgariepy> i don't like my session to be accessible for everyone ;)
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| 16:31 | <alkisg> mgariepy: then you need to set your password, to be able to unlock it
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| 16:32 | * alkisg is looking for supporters for writing the passwd hash in /etc/shadow! :D | |
| 16:32 | <alkisg> (optionally)
| |
| 16:32 | <mgariepy> that would be nice ;)
| |
| 16:32 | * stgraber is looking forward to having sbalneav's new toys :) | |
| 16:32 | <stgraber> with PAM + NSS using ssh, that'll all be solved
| |
| 16:33 | <alkisg> A tiny crypt call in ldm.c + an append to shadow... pretty simple
| |
| 16:33 | That's Lucid+1 or +2 or +3... but we could have the shadow trick for lucid
| |
| 16:33 | <stgraber> alkisg: well, except that at this stage there's no shadow entry
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| 16:33 | alkisg: they get created a bit later on
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| 16:34 | <mgariepy> 369 update + 57 new
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| 16:34 | <alkisg> stgraber: well I'm sure we could find a way with no security loss other than the possibility for someone which gains root access to a tc to get the hash
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| 16:34 | That's a really small security risk, as opposed to LDM_PASSWORD on tftp...
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| 16:36 | It's essentially what you're doing now manually
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| 16:37 | <mgariepy> indeed, i wouldn't put my password in a clear text postgres database ;)
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| 16:37 | <stgraber> bah, we're still a lot better than regular LTSP, we send it over https instead of tftp :)
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| 16:37 | <mgariepy> would it be very hard to lock the screen from the appserver ?
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| 16:38 | yeah but it's still clear text on the apache server that everyone have access.
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| 16:38 | <stgraber> mgariepy: ltsp-remoteapss gnmee-screensaver-command --activate ?
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| 16:38 | or something similar
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| 16:39 | <mgariepy> i'll finish the update and test it.
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| 16:39 | <stgraber> so much for leaving the office early today heh ? :)
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| 16:42 | <mgariepy> i doubt it would work though i don't think gconf is running on the appserv...
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| 16:42 | yeah i know
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| 16:42 | i'll leave earlier tomorrow
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| 16:45 | <vandys> Gadi, are you still there?
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| 16:45 | <Gadi> barely
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| 16:46 | <vandys> :-> So disabling AIGLX lets TC's using Via to log onto KDM/KDE. FYI!
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| 16:46 | <Gadi> using openchrome?
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| 16:46 | or via drivers?
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| 16:47 | and it prolly depends on which via chip
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| 16:47 | <vandys> I put ServerFlags AIGLX set to off, and Composite set to disable in a custom xorg.conf
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| 16:47 | <alkisg> OK we need to ditch that openvt call for X sessions. If I run X -vt6 (but the vt was opened in 7) it works fine.
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| 16:47 | * Gadi takes mental note tho - with whats left of his brain | |
| 16:48 | <stgraber> alkisg: ok, now to check if we now that it's a X session ;)
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| 16:48 | <mgariepy> rebuilding the chroot now ;)
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| 16:48 | <vandys> I agree on the Via chip, but google shows a lot of people (not just LTSP) getting hosed by this.
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| 16:48 | <alkisg> stgraber: ok, but I'll leave that for tomorrow - too late here to go on :)
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| 16:48 | Good night all!
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| 16:48 | <vandys> I could not get MAC address wildcarding working--should it be [01:1B:*] like that?
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| 16:48 | <Gadi> vandys: there's no such thing
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| 16:49 | afaik
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| 16:49 | <stgraber> alkisg: heh, it's the same time as here :) (at least I think you're CET as well)
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| 16:49 | alkisg: ah no, it's one hour worse :)
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| 16:49 | <vandys> Ah, I thought I saw a patch go in. Oh, well. Is LIKE=<other-name> working?
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| 16:49 | <alkisg> 12:29 :)
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| 16:49 | Where are you?
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| 16:49 | <Gadi> vandys: yeah LIKE works
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| 16:49 | <stgraber> it's "only" 23:49 here
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| 16:49 | alkisg: switzerland until saturday
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| 16:49 | <vandys> Cool. Thanks for your help!
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| 16:49 | <alkisg> Ah, cool. And cold, i bet :)
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| 16:50 | <stgraber> well, not worse than Quebec, not too much better though
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| 16:51 | <mgariepy> hey it's quite warm here, it's 3C outside ;P
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| 16:51 | <alkisg> k, took 3 days to change 3 characters, but it works fine now :D Bye!
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| 16:51 | <Gadi> if openvt should only be called in non-x screen scripts, then those screen scripts should call it themselves
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| 16:51 | <stgraber> mgariepy: ok, then it's probably worse than Quebec but it's 6 hours later so ...
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| 16:51 | -5C and snowing here :)
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| 16:52 | <mgariepy> nice, at least you have snow i miss snow
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| 16:52 | <stgraber> yeah, though I hope it'll stop soon. Tomorrow I'm going in France so if I can go there without getting stuck in traffic because of the snow it'd be great :)
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| 17:42 | <Lns> man it's 59 and sunny out here in cali =)
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| 17:43 | took off my jacket, rolled up my sleeves and walked to the mexican place down the street about a half hour ago =)
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| 18:10 | <Lns> how does the server know what arch the client is, and therefore which chroot to build (if there is i386+amd64 chroots) ?
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| 18:10 | s/build/boot
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| 18:10 | jeez my wordage is way off today
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| 18:16 | nm, gotta run! cheers all
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| 18:26 | <laron> I've set up an LTSP server and using a Windows 2008 Server to transfer clients to the tftp server for the pxelinux.0 file
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| 18:26 | I just moved the tftp computer to another room, restarted it and tested a client.
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| 18:27 | and tftp connect timed out
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| 18:27 | so I check to see if por 69 was blocked "nmap -sU localhost" and it is open|filtered
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| 18:27 | so that shouldnt be the problem
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| 18:28 | note. the clients were able to get a dhcp address fine, just timed out when asking the tftp server for the files
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| 18:28 | what could be wrong?
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| 18:30 | <mgariepy> have you tried to restart the tftp service ?
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| 18:31 | <laron> yeah
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| 18:31 | <mgariepy> netstat -taunp | grep 69
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| 18:33 | <laron> udp 0 0.0.0.0:69 0.0.0.0:* 1101/inetd
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| 18:33 | is the result
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| 18:35 | <mgariepy> does the ip of the server has changed ?
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| 18:36 | <laron> no, set to static in /etc/network/interfaces
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| 18:38 | <mgariepy> weird
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| 18:38 | <laron> yeah
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| 18:38 | well, ill work on it later
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| 18:38 | <mgariepy> does the tftp works? can you get the file with a tftp client ?
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| 18:39 | <laron> ill try that just to make sure
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| 18:39 | thanks for the help, wanted to make sure I wansnt missing anything obvious
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| 18:39 | and it did work earlier, worked perfect
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| 18:39 | thanks for the help anyway
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| 18:39 | <mgariepy> no problem but i wasn't of much help i guess ;)
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| 18:40 | <laron> :) later
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| 19:10 | <thunsucker> I am getting ready to setup my first fat client on karmic
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| 19:10 | the link off the ubuntu wiki still the best route to go?
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| 19:10 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPFatClients
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| 19:30 | <johnny> hmm..
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| 19:30 | my fat clients ain't workin
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| 19:31 | just a blinkin screen
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| 19:31 | <thunsucker> johnny: interesting
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| 20:01 | <jammcq> hellooooo friends
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| 22:58 | <alkisg> Good morning all.
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| 23:03 | <johnny> alkisg, .. those settings weren't quite good enough for my monitor
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| 23:03 | i wonder if it was too low..
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| 23:03 | stuff wasn't showing up on the bottom of the screen
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| 23:03 | <alkisg> Meaning?
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| 23:03 | <johnny> and it was kinda flickery..
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| 23:03 | <alkisg> What resolution did that give you?
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| 23:04 | <johnny> first time i'd ever seen flickering wavy line on an lcd before :)
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| 23:04 | i wonder if the default is 1280x1024 or somethin
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| 23:04 | <alkisg> Didn't that give you 1024x768@60Hz ?
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| 23:04 | <johnny> yes
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| 23:04 | i think that just wasn't quite big enough
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| 23:04 | <alkisg> For higher resolutions, you'd need to increase X_HORZSYNC
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| 23:04 | For higher refresh rates, X_VERTREFRESH
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| 23:05 | <johnny> well.. aren't most lcds 60?
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| 23:05 | <alkisg> ...just do some experiments...
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| 23:05 | No, newer ones go to 75Hz
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| 23:05 | <johnny> ah..
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| 23:05 | i wonder..
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| 23:05 | anyways.. the fat client experiment worked
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| 23:05 | <alkisg> Well enough?
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| 23:05 | <johnny> yeah
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| 23:05 | i didn't test with local devices tho
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| 23:05 | <alkisg> Good to hear
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| 23:05 | I'd like to put an NFS option there, though..\
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| 23:05 | <johnny> i did make the mods to the devicekit.disks polkit file
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| 23:06 | <alkisg> instead of sshfs
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| 23:06 | <johnny> i didn't have a udisks option
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| 23:06 | <johnny> ah.. it'd be nice to patch tthe null cipher in
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| 23:06 | <alkisg> No, not for speed. For application support
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| 23:06 | <johnny> ah
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| 23:06 | <alkisg> Some applications need to create lock, and sshfs doesn't support that
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| 23:06 | <johnny> the follow symlinks thing for chome and the like?
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| 23:06 | ah.. locking
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| 23:07 | hmm.. i thought there was an nfs option
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| 23:07 | yeah.. nfs would be better i guess
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| 23:07 | <alkisg> At least for people that don't care much about security...
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| 23:07 | (like all teachers here :))
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| 23:07 | <johnny> doesn't nfsv4 support security?
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| 23:07 | encrypted stff?
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| 23:07 | fedora defaults to nfsv4 in f13
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| 23:08 | <johnny> uggh.. i'm upset
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| 23:08 | the new hotssh is much better looking.. but it seems to have lost cut& paste
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| 23:08 | :(
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| 23:08 | <alkisg> I think so, but I don't really care anyway - I'd even use it unencrypted, as long as locks work :)
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| 23:10 | <johnny> hmm.. sadly.. fedora didn't go with grub2 like lucid did
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| 23:10 | <alkisg> Wow, they still have grub legacy?
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| 23:10 | <johnny> hmm.. what version of upstart does ubuntu have in lucid?
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| 23:11 | well. i don't think it was fair to call it legacy
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| 23:11 | <alkisg> 0.6.5-4
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| 23:11 | That's what it's called upstream, grub legacy
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| 23:11 | <johnny> considering grub2 is only recently just good enough
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| 23:11 | <alkisg> It's been called thus since 5 years or more...
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| 23:11 | <johnny> i know.. but nobody was using non legacy :)
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| 23:11 | exactly
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| 23:11 | kinda soon to call something legacy if EVERYBODY was still using it
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| 23:12 | <alkisg> They were trying hard to make distros switch to grub2 :)
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| 23:12 | For tooooo long....
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| 23:12 | <johnny> obvioiusly they weren't helping well enough
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| 23:12 | by not solving the problems distros had with using it
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| 23:12 | <alkisg> Maybe. Anyway it's good enough for me, it's much easier to work with than grub legacy, EXCEPT for the installation part
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| 23:13 | I could install grub legacy from a floppy. I can't do that with grub2...
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| 23:13 | <johnny> hmm?
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| 23:14 | install grub from a floppy?
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| 23:14 | why would you want to do that?
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| 23:14 | to fix bad mbr?
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| 23:14 | <alkisg> One use case, yeah
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| 23:14 | <johnny> i don't have any computers that don't have cdroms
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| 23:14 | <alkisg> Another one would be to install grub to winXX systems
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| 23:14 | <johnny> and also can't boot usb
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| 23:15 | you would need to satisify both conditions
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| 23:15 | for that to matter to me
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| 23:15 | <alkisg> Also, grub2 supports ntfs
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| 23:16 | <johnny> so does that mean no more chainloading?
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| 23:16 | or what?
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| 23:16 | <alkisg> That's needed for ltsp-loader, which converts XP workstations to ltsp clients
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| 23:16 | (grub2 in an .exe installer)
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| 23:16 | <johnny> is the config syntax the same?
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| 23:16 | <alkisg> No, very different
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| 23:16 | <johnny> or is it all different?
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| 23:16 | ah
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| 23:16 | suck
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| 23:16 | <alkisg> You can even drop files in /etc/grub.d now
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| 23:17 | And they get picked up by update-grub...
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| 23:17 | (sourced)
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| 23:17 | <johnny> is that a feature of grub2 or an ubuntu patch/
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| 23:17 | i wonder when fedora will switch
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| 23:17 | would be nice to have my /boot as ext4..
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| 23:17 | <alkisg> I'm not sure, it looks like upstream work...
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| 23:17 | <johnny> but otherwise.. i don't personally need it
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| 23:18 | <alkisg> I haven't seen any grub2 problems since karmic - and I started using it on jaunty...
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| 23:22 | <johnny> ah really?
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| 23:22 | yeah.. then i'm suprised fedora isn't already using it
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| 23:24 | <alkisg> It doesn't have packages at all, or they just aren't preinstalled?
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| 23:25 | <johnny> never looked
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| 23:26 | no other grub
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| 23:27 | i'll see when i upgrade to f13
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