IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 6 February 2008 (all times are UTC)
| 00:07 | SteveWrightNZ has joined #ltsp | |
| 00:07 | <SteveWrightNZ> ltsp5 - shut down a terminal remotely - how ?
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| 00:08 | <johnny> use the thin client manager, altho it is out of date
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| 00:08 | or italc
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| 00:08 | there's prolly some shell way to do it..
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| 00:08 | <SteveWrightNZ> k
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| 00:10 | ltsp-manager ?
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| 00:10 | <johnny> that's for ltsp4
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| 00:10 | i think
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| 00:10 | <SteveWrightNZ> k
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| 00:11 | what is this thin client manager ?
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| 00:11 | <johnny> uhmm.. an application? :)
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| 00:11 | or perhaps also called student-contro-panel
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| 00:11 | control*
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| 00:11 | that's the actual binary
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| 00:12 | <SteveWrightNZ> if could ssh to the terminal I could simply halt it
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| 00:17 | drcode has joined #ltsp | |
| 00:17 | <drcode> hi all
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| 00:17 | I want to install ltsp under mandriva
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| 00:17 | if I try to use apt-get install ltsp-server, there is no such packge, any idea?
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| 00:17 | <SteveWrightNZ> apt-cache search ltsp
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| 00:18 | mandriva uses apt tools ?
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| 00:18 | <drcode> its based on mandriva
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| 00:18 | I actual use pclinuxos
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| 00:20 | <MacIver> kill -U username ;)
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| 00:21 | <drcode> any idea?
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| 00:22 | <SteveWrightNZ> use the package manager for mandriva to install it
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| 00:22 | <drcode> I did
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| 00:22 | but there is no such packge?
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| 00:22 | <SteveWrightNZ> cool
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| 00:22 | <drcode> under mandriva there is ltsp-server?
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| 00:22 | <SteveWrightNZ> I do not know
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| 00:22 | I have never used madriva
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| 00:22 | <drcode> is there RPM that I can download?
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| 00:23 | <SteveWrightNZ> I do now know
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| 00:23 | not
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| 00:23 | maybe there is a repository you must enable
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| 00:23 | ask in #mandriva ?
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| 00:23 | <drcode> k
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| 00:23 | thanx
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| 00:23 | <SteveWrightNZ> google "ltsp mandriva"
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| 00:24 | <drcode> what dist, do U use with ltsp?
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| 00:24 | <SteveWrightNZ> ubuntu
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| 00:24 | <drcode> k
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| 00:24 | I also use ubuntu
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| 00:24 | very cool dist
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| 00:24 | <SteveWrightNZ> yes it is very easy
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| 00:25 | <drcode> I am looking for dist that is east like MAC
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| 00:25 | <SteveWrightNZ> I think you will discover that ubuntu or FC is best supported
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| 00:25 | <drcode> any idea?
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| 00:25 | FC = Fedora?
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| 00:25 | <SteveWrightNZ> yes
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| 00:26 | <drcode> k
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| 00:26 | thanx
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| 00:26 | I will go on ubuntu
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| 00:26 | <SteveWrightNZ> what will you use it for ?
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| 00:26 | <drcode> I want to use it has diskless server
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| 00:26 | and aso NX
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| 00:27 | <SteveWrightNZ> what people will use it, and to what apps ?
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| 00:27 | <drcode> I read that it possible to connec NX client with ltsp
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| 00:27 | openoffie and other
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| 00:27 | I want also to be able to profile the desktop
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| 00:31 | SteveWrightNZ: Thanx Again
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| 00:31 | i will stick with ubuntu
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| 00:31 | <SteveWrightNZ> ok ;-)
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| 00:31 | <MacIver> drcode: you might be interested in...http://scribere.no-ip.org/LTSP
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| 00:33 | <drcode> MacIver: thanx
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| 00:33 | <MacIver> drcode: np :)
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| 02:00 | Pascal_1 has joined #ltsp | |
| 02:00 | <Pascal_1> hello
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| 02:02 | since yesterday my installation of ltsp begin to works...
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| 02:04 | i've got another problemi've got now problem to login
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| 02:04 | what are the users wich can logon the client ??
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| 02:05 | is it user created on the server itself /etc/passwd or created in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/passwd ??
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| 02:05 | then what is the way to create user ?
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| 02:07 | Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp | |
| 02:14 | <Pascal_1> i try to create user with useradd on the server itself, and create user in chroot but i cant login
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| 02:20 | anybody to help me
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| 02:20 | ?
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| 02:32 | <rjune> Pascal_1: I believe you need the users to be on the server
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| 02:42 | <Pascal_1> that what i do
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| 02:42 | when i try to log the login screen come back
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| 02:42 | i dont know where is the problem
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| 02:48 | i create user on the ltsp server and on the chroot nothing works
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| 02:48 | <johnny> it will never work on the chroot
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| 02:48 | try logging in on the machine itself
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| 02:48 | as that user
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| 02:56 | <Pascal_1> i can log on the client with console (ctrl alt f1), when i look to the ldm.log i've got this : read_passphrase can't open /dev/tty
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| 02:57 | but when i launch the client what are the user which exist on it to log ?
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| 02:59 | johnny, then what is the way to create user wich could logon this client ??
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| 02:59 | what is the root password ?
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| 03:00 | <johnny> you didn't do what i said
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| 03:00 | try logging in as the user you created on the server itself
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| 03:00 | not via the client
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| 03:00 | make sure that works first
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| 03:02 | <Pascal_1> that works
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| 03:04 | <johnny> if you want a root password, you have to go into the chroot and set one
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| 03:04 | then rebuild the image
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| 03:05 | <Pascal_1> rebuild the image ??
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| 03:05 | <johnny> ltsp-update-image
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| 03:05 | perhaps you might want to read the edubuntu docs
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| 03:05 | <Pascal_1> but johnny i've not this command
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| 03:06 | <johnny> which ltsp are you using?
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| 03:06 | <Pascal_1> and i can logon to on the client only with user created inside the chroot?
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| 03:06 | 5
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| 03:06 | <johnny> then you should have that command
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| 03:06 | but not in the chroot
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| 03:06 | outside
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| 03:07 | <Pascal_1> sorry it wa s 2 question
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| 03:07 | <johnny> no
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| 03:07 | well as root
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| 03:07 | <Pascal_1> the first : can you confirm that it's possible to logon on the client with user created inside the chroot
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| 03:07 | <johnny> ony the root user
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| 03:07 | no other users
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| 03:07 | the rest come from the server
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| 03:08 | <Pascal_1> i mean : from the ltsp server i make chroot /opt/ltsp/i386, then i make adduser bla bla bla
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| 03:08 | <johnny> no
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| 03:08 | only for root
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| 03:08 | <Pascal_1> ok
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| 03:08 | i create root user inside chroot, and for others users on the server itsel
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| 03:08 | <johnny> root already exists
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| 03:08 | sorta
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| 03:08 | it just needs a password
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| 03:09 | <Pascal_1> yes but what is his password ??
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| 03:09 | <johnny> set it :)
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| 03:09 | as i said
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| 03:09 | <Pascal_1> ok
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| 03:09 | <johnny> you should go read the docs :)
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| 03:09 | edubuntu has some of the better ones to familiarize yourself with how it works
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| 03:10 | <Pascal_1> but it seems that i can connect on the client (only from console for the moment) with users created inside chroot, if i try with user created on the server it doesnt works
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| 03:10 | johnny, i try to read the doc, but it's not so eazy i'm french ....
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| 03:11 | the other problem is that i've not the command ltsp-update-image
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| 03:11 | <johnny> outside of the chroot?
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| 03:11 | <Pascal_1> yes
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| 03:12 | i install ltsp on a debian with apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone
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| 03:12 | <johnny> is that really ltsp5?
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| 03:12 | there are some debian folks
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| 03:12 | <Pascal_1> ltsp-build-client ltsp-update-kernels ltsp-update-sshkeys
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| 03:12 | only those command
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| 03:13 | johnny, how to know what is the version ?
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| 03:13 | <johnny> hmm.. not sure
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| 03:13 | use apt-cache show on one of the ltsp packages maybe?
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| 03:13 | i'm not that familiar with debian
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| 03:14 | <Pascal_1> huhuhu /ltsp-server-standalone_0.99debian11_all.deb
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| 03:15 | i'm not sure that is the good version ??
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| 03:18 | what do you think about this
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| 03:19 | <johnny> no idea
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| 03:19 | you might have to go do some web searching
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| 03:45 | <Pascal_1> any idea for my problem : i can login from console but not from graphical interface ?
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| 03:51 | <exodos> hi, im using LTSP5 on gutsy. I can't update kernel inside clients chroot
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| 03:53 | <exodos> after apt-get install linux-image-2.6.22-14-386 I have this: "run-parts: executing /etc/kernel/postinst.d/ltsp-update-kernels" "Cannot open ``/boot/nbi.img-2.6.22-14-386'':File exists"
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| 03:53 | is it known problem or should I try to fix it by myself?
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| 03:55 | <johnny> hmm.. usually i just build a new chroot between releases
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| 03:55 | so i don't know
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| 03:57 | <exodos> i'll fill a bug
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| 05:36 | <sep> ltsp in debian etch, when moving the mouse over a icon on the desktop. the pointer becomes a black box, anyone have a clue ?
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| 05:40 | <ogra> sounds liek an X issue
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| 05:40 | *like
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| 05:40 | <sep> yes it does
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| 07:20 | <Pascal_1> i'm trying to reinstall ltsp on an ubuntu distrib, what is the best choice ?? ubuntu 7.10, ubuntu 7.10 alternate, ubuntu 7.10 server???
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| 07:20 | <ogra> not server
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| 07:20 | you need a desktop installed for ltsp
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| 07:20 | <Pascal_1> 7.10 alternate ??
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| 07:21 | <ogra> the choice between the other two is totally up to your taste :)
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| 07:21 | deesktop installs from a liveCd, alternate is the textmode installer
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| 07:21 | the resulting ubuntu system is the same for both
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| 07:21 | <Pascal_1> alternate is more light
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| 07:21 | ?
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| 07:22 | i can take the last one 7.10 ?
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| 07:22 | <ogra> it has less system requirements, you can use it on 64M machines while desktop requires 384M to run the desktop
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| 07:23 | (i.e. to install a small router on old HW you would likely choose laternate in expert install mode and onl have a commandline system and some selected packages
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| 07:23 | )
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| 07:23 | its more flexible and has a smaller footprint ... its also a tad slower
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| 07:24 | <Pascal_1> oups my english is not so good ;-)
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| 07:24 | what do you mean
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| 07:24 | if i understand, alternate is a good choice ?
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| 07:24 | for a server
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| 07:24 | ?
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| 07:25 | what mean "tad slower" ?
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| 07:25 | <ogra> alternate is ok, desktop is faster ...
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| 07:25 | the installed system you get from either of the CDs is identical
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| 07:25 | <Pascal_1> you speak about installation desktop is faster ?
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| 07:26 | <ogra> the graphical desktop installer just dumps the livesystem to the disk and removes all non liveCD related packages ... the alternate textinstaller installs every package separately instead ...
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| 07:26 | the latter is the slower methid (taking about twice as long)
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| 07:26 | *method
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| 07:27 | <Pascal_1> but after the system (alternate) is less "gourmand"
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| 07:28 | <cliebow_> 8~)
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| 07:28 | <ogra> the installed systems are absolutely identical
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| 07:29 | <ogra> if i install an ubuntu ltsp i use the desktop CD, install ltsp-server-standalone, run ltsp-build-client and have a properly working setup
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| 07:29 | the whole thibng is done in less than 1.5h
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| 07:31 | (i'm just integrating the ltsp bits in the alternate installer though, with the next release (8.04 (hardy heron)) you can just select "install terminal server" in the CD bootmenu then and heave it out of the box
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| 07:37 | <Pascal_1> you mean in the next version i can install ltsp from the install menu ?
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| 07:37 | <ogra> yes
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| 07:37 | it will be an option on the alternate CD
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| 07:45 | <Pascal_1> great !!
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| 07:45 | you know when this version will be ready ?
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| 07:48 | <cliebow_> 8.04=2008 April
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| 07:48 | <Pascal_1> ogra why i cant use the server version ?? if i dont want graphical interface
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| 07:51 | <cliebow_> you need a window manager
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| 07:52 | ohh..no gui on client?
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| 07:52 | <Pascal_1> yes i want guy on client*
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| 07:52 | you mean if i want gui on client i need gui on ltsp server
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| 07:53 | <Pascal_1> i thought it didnt use the server gui for client
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| 07:53 | <cliebow_> well..at least a window manager
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| 07:54 | ogra says yuo dont "have" to have x running on server
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| 07:54 | <Pascal_1> then my server could be without window manager ?
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| 08:14 | <Blinny> Is it possible to get extended 3-year LTS support of -server on an LTSP installation by installing -server from CD and then running 'apt-get install ubuntu-desktop' ?
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| 08:36 | <Q-FUNK> !g
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| 08:36 | <ltspbot`> Q-FUNK: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 08:37 | <Gadi> cool
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| 08:37 | :)
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| 08:37 | <ogra> Blinny, only for the server bits
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| 08:37 | <Gadi> morning, Q-FUNK
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| 08:39 | <ogra> Blinny, LTS support is done on a per package base, no matter how you installed your system ...
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| 08:43 | <Blinny> ogra: That is an awesome answer, and very clear. Thank you.
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| 08:53 | <ogra> Gadi, wrt Bug 189582 ... how would i get that connection without having the ssh tunnel ? the info needs to be there before we have user credentials
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| 08:55 | the sentinel is set after username and password were supplied we need lang and session data long before thats even there
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| 08:56 | <Gadi> ogra: ah - good point
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| 08:56 | <Gadi> then, perhaps an override by supplying a list in lts.conf?
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| 08:57 | <ogra> a possibility would be to have something set up server-side (an ldm user wihth ssh key) but that woulld break ldm imho
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| 08:57 | <Gadi> LDM_SESSION
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| 08:57 | LDM_SESSION = a,b,c,d,e
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| 08:57 | <ogra> thats already there afaik
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| 08:57 | <Gadi> with a being default
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| 08:57 | <ogra> might not be documented since that var is used internally
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| 08:58 | * Gadi doesnt think so - but has to look at code again | |
| 08:58 | <Gadi> but, there is an 'nc' call in the screen script outside of ldm.c
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| 08:58 | so, Im not sure if we cover all bases
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| 08:58 | <ogra> scopy(ldminfo.session, getenv("LDM_SESSION"));
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| 08:58 | * Gadi will check | |
| 08:58 | <ogra> there it is
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| 08:58 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 08:58 | <ogra> !s
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| 08:58 | <ltspbot`> ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 08:58 | <Gadi> that nc call needs a timeout, as well
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| 08:59 | but, thats an easy patch
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| 08:59 | <sbalneav> What are we looking at?
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| 08:59 | <ogra> ldm, as usual
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| 08:59 | <Gadi> ogra: are you sure that that overrides the connection attempt, as well
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| 08:59 | * ogra made some progress with consolekit integration ... but only some (i have sshd creating seat and session now) | |
| 08:59 | <Gadi> or does it still attempt to connect
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| 08:59 | <ogra> its inside ldm.c
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| 09:00 | and gets translated to ldminfo.session
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| 09:00 | * Gadi has to run for a bit | |
| 09:00 | <Gadi> ill look at the code when I get back
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| 09:01 | <ogra> LDM_SESSION and LDM_LANGUAGE are the ones you want
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| 09:01 | they will both be used if you set them
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| 09:02 | <Gadi> right - but we should make sure that: the call to 'nc' in the screen script does not happen
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| 09:03 | AND that we just use the var in ldm.c and we dont go out to ldminfo as well
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| 09:05 | <ogra> send a patch :)
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| 09:10 | <Pascal_1> re !!
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| 09:11 | <cliebow_> WOOT?
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| 09:11 | <Pascal_1> woot ?
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| 09:11 | just one question about the possibility to use thin client as windows client log on samba pdc. what is the way to do that ? is there a good tutorial ?
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| 09:13 | <cliebow_> woot means.yippeee it works
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| 09:13 | Pascal_1, your question is not clear..
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| 09:13 | <Pascal_1> hmmf
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| 09:13 | sorry
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| 09:13 | i try again ;-)
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| 09:14 | i've got a samba pdc server on my network
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| 09:14 | user on windows client log on this server
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| 09:15 | <Pascal_1> is there a way to do the same with thin client?
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| 09:16 | <cliebow_> you should be able to do anything the server can do..like smbmount a windows share..
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| 09:16 | <Pascal_1> but evry configuration is to be done on ltsp server not on chroot
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| 09:16 | ?
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| 09:17 | <cliebow_> all the thin client with gui does is see the session on the server..
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| 09:46 | <Nubae> hi there, can someone help me connect a printer to a thin client directly (not via the server but connected to the thin client)?
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| 09:51 | <ogra> Nubae, usb or parallel ?
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| 09:53 | <Nubae> either... haven't had luck with any
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| 09:53 | lets start with usb
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| 09:57 | I have this in [default]
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| 09:57 | PRINTER_0_DEVICE = /dev/usblp0
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| 09:57 | PRINTER_0_TYPE = U
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| 09:57 | <ogra> thats ubuntu, right ?
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| 09:57 | <Nubae> yes gutsy
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| 09:57 | <ogra> you dont need TYPE, its determined automatically
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| 09:58 | <Nubae> ok, cool, and can I put it in default, so all printers are detected?
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| 09:58 | <ogra> it checks for USB in the device name else it assumes parallel unless you set it to serial manually
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| 09:58 | <Nubae> or do I need to define under each mac address
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| 09:58 | <ogra> it then starts a jetdirect listener on the client during boot
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| 09:59 | default should work
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| 09:59 | in the printer setup dialog make sure to point to the client ip and to port 9100 as jetdirert printer
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| 10:00 | *jetdirect
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| 13:52 | <humbolto> vagrantc: Am I understanding this correctly?
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| 13:57 | <vagrantc> humbolto: well, it's a little trickier than that... it needs to identify the etherboot version rather than PXE
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| 14:00 | <humbolto> vagrantc: Why, I just let everybody with non PXE cards boot the new etherboot image. And well, I can set by hand per MAC, who boots what until they identify as PXE.
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| 15:26 | <ninkendo> how does one make it so a thin client can be part of a different section of lts.conf depending on what is selected in the PXE boot menu?
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| 15:26 | <ogra_cmpc> you are mixing up things
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| 15:27 | <ninkendo> like, I have two sections in lts.conf, one specifies ldm, and one specifies using rdesktop and an rdp host
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| 15:27 | I can currently split my thin clients up by mac address and have some in one section and some in another, etc
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| 15:27 | but I'd like the ability to select it at startup as part of the boot menu
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| 15:29 | well, h mm. I guess lts.conf only supports splitting hosts up by mac address, doesn't it?
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| 15:29 | <johnny> i think you'd modify such things in pxelinux not lts.conf?
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| 15:30 | <ninkendo> well, the rdesktop script in the screen.d directory reads values from the lts.conf in order to know what server to connect to, etc.
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| 15:31 | and AFAICT, lts.conf is where you configure which file in screen.d should be run to set up your screen
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| 15:31 | rdesktop being one of those files, and ldm being the other
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| 18:53 | <humbolto> vagrantc: still here?
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| 18:53 | <vagrantc> humbolto: i gotta go, actually
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| 18:54 | <humbolto> too bad.
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| 18:54 | just got to the place where my clients are
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| 18:54 | a quick one.
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| 18:55 | I got this here: if substring( option vendor-class-identifier, 0, 9 ) = "Etherboot-5.4" but it does not seem to match. Eventhough wireshark shows that this is the vendor id!
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| 18:55 | any clues?
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| 18:56 | <humbolto> vagrantc: and would you match the vci with if options or with classes?
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| 18:57 | vagrantc: like here: http://people.mandriva.com/~aginies/doc/pxe/ch04.html
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| 18:57 | <vagrantc> humbolto: because you need ... identifier, 0, 13)
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| 18:57 | humbolto: that's the number of characters you're matching against
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| 18:57 | <humbolto> why is that?
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| 18:57 | <vagrantc> so etherboot is 9 characters, etherboot-5.4 is 13 characters
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| 18:58 | <humbolto> ahhh!
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| 18:58 | ok
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| 18:58 | <vagrantc> alright ... gotta run
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| 18:58 | <humbolto> do I need this stuff option vendor-encapsulated-options 3c:09:45:74:68:65:72:62:6f:6f:74:ff;
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| 18:58 | after my if match?
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| 21:38 | <FuriousGeorge> hey all
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| 21:39 | we arent scared of using ltsp in production?
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| 21:39 | you know what would be cool? one of those LCDs with built in computer ala wise terminal
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| 21:39 | can i turn a 1K imac into a think client easily?
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| 21:40 | *wyse
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| 21:41 | <johnny> 1k?
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| 21:41 | what is a 1k
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| 21:41 | dollars?
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| 21:45 | <FuriousGeorge> johnny: one 'kilo-dollars'
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| 21:46 | a thousand dolars
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| 21:46 | <johnny> that's a bit expensive
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| 21:46 | but sure it'll work..
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| 21:46 | <FuriousGeorge> sorry, real ambiguous on my part
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| 21:46 | <johnny> you should use intel stuff ..
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| 21:46 | makes things much easier
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| 21:46 | good that the new macs are intel based
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| 21:46 | <FuriousGeorge> intel thin clients?
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| 21:46 | <johnny> x86
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| 21:46 | <FuriousGeorge> ltsp.org doesnt endorse any thin client/LCD solutions
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| 21:47 | johnny: do you?
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| 21:47 | <johnny> i'm just using donated regular PCs
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| 21:47 | <FuriousGeorge> is accurate to say anything that can boot from the network should work?
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| 21:48 | <johnny> because i can't afford to buy any real thin client
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| 21:48 | yes, but you'll have more trouble to deal with if the arch isn't x86
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| 21:48 | application wise
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| 21:48 | <FuriousGeorge> ok, so definitely x86
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| 21:49 | what should that matter though? its xdmcp, i thought it was arch independant
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| 21:49 | <johnny> it's not xdmcp
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| 21:49 | <FuriousGeorge> i thought i read on the wiki that was the last layer
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| 21:49 | <johnny> the difference tho, is the chroot is arch dependent
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| 21:49 | <FuriousGeorge> gotcha
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| 21:50 | <johnny> we had a few old style imacs before i ditched them
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| 21:50 | you had to setup the thin client chroot on them and then copy it to the server
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| 21:50 | it wasn't worth the hassle
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| 21:50 | so i just got rid of them
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| 21:50 | since one wouldn't networkboot anyways
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| 21:51 | <FuriousGeorge> i was mostly joking about turning the imac into a thin client
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| 21:51 | <johnny> well if you wanted to run heavy local apps, and you had a good source
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| 21:51 | it wouldn't be a horrible thing
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| 21:52 | <FuriousGeorge> johnny: so this is more intricate than i thought... you can chose to run some apps locally?
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| 21:52 | <johnny> it's in the works
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| 21:52 | it isn't as easy as it should be
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| 21:52 | but it is possible
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| 21:52 | <FuriousGeorge> i thought ltsp implied dumb stations like winTS
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| 21:52 | <johnny> well if you're using a bunch of donated PCs, and have a lsightly slower server
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| 21:52 | then you can say.. run firefox, on the machine itself
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| 21:52 | but stored in the served chroot
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| 21:53 | <johnny> it just depends on what is best fit for your env
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| 21:53 | <FuriousGeorge> johnny: so there are some workaround/hacks/what-have-you to make certain apps run client side
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| 21:53 | <johnny> yes
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| 21:53 | they use resources on the clients instead
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| 21:53 | <FuriousGeorge> im looking into a point of sales system for a client
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| 21:53 | <johnny> it's especially good for things like skype
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| 21:53 | <FuriousGeorge> he needs stations at the register, but i think he thinks he wants thin clients
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| 21:53 | <johnny> that don't like being remotely
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| 21:54 | <FuriousGeorge> right, anything that wants to be realtime
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| 21:54 | that is hot
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| 21:54 | <johnny> the reason to still use ltsp in that regard is for the centralized management
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| 21:54 | much easier to work with
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| 21:55 | <FuriousGeorge> he has a space issue, and was asking me about installing 'tablet PCs' instead of mid-towers at the reception area
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| 21:56 | i told him a 'thin client' solution would make more sense, to which he replied
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| 21:56 | 'One or two powerful units that have just a monitor, key ,n mouse and hard wired is a serious option.'
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| 21:56 | <FuriousGeorge> i think that means he wants thin clients, right? cuz he knows he needs more than one or two PCs per location
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| 21:57 | <johnny> well they won't work well remotely
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| 21:57 | <FuriousGeorge> either that or multi-seat linux
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| 21:57 | <johnny> ltsp isn't hte solution
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| 21:57 | for that
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| 21:57 | but your thin clients can run rdesktop
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| 21:58 | to do the remote stuff
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| 21:58 | <FuriousGeorge> for point of sales software? i thought term services would be perfect for that
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| 21:58 | ive installed windows based solutions that are very similar for that purpose
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| 21:58 | quite elegant, except for the windows part
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| 21:59 | <johnny> freenx would be good if you had linux POS software
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| 21:59 | luckily i do
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| 21:59 | <FuriousGeorge> i have linux pos software
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| 21:59 | forgot to make that clear
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| 21:59 | i actually have linux compatible pos software
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| 21:59 | the possibilities are endless
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| 21:59 | <johnny> well it depends on if you run the software locally and then connect to a backend db for storage
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| 21:59 | which would be the fastest method
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| 21:59 | or if you serve up the entire thing
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| 22:00 | in which case freenx would be good
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| 22:00 | <FuriousGeorge> what i had in mind would be to serve everything, because i didnt know there was any other option before, and now for simplicity's sake
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| 22:01 | im still confused as to why you say ltsp would be bad for linux compatible POS software
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| 22:02 | <johnny> that's not what i said :)
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| 22:02 | what i said, was depends on how and where it's being served
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| 22:02 | what i meant
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| 22:02 | was that you wouldn't serve the entire setup from a remote location
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| 22:02 | like the OS stuff
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| 22:02 | and then i went on to mention how you could serve the POS app itself
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| 22:05 | <FuriousGeorge> interesting... windows terminal services serves 'everything' to the client, and it works ok... i do see the advantage of having some stuff on the client... i assume that would be loaded in memory though, cuz isnt a true thin client diskless?
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| 22:06 | <johnny> brb
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| 22:40 | <warren> vagrantc, we will want to also explore versioning the ldminfod output
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| 22:40 | <vagrantc> warren: sure
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| 22:40 | <warren> vagrantc, there are reasons for this like:
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| 22:40 | vagrantc, arbitrary thin-client hardware maker embeds linux on onboard flash
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| 22:40 | vagrantc, LDM is just one of many protocols it supports onboard
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| 22:41 | vagrantc, it is pretty much guaranteed to NOT match the exact build on the server
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| 22:41 | vagrantc, thus we need ldminfod to advertise needed version or capabilities, or both.
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| 22:41 | <vagrantc> warren: go for it
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| 22:41 | <warren> yeah
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| 22:41 | will implement this definitely...
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| 22:42 | <vagrantc> i want to test out this "guest login" button feature i have patches for, and then i think i'll do a new ldm upload to debian
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| 22:43 | <warren> what does "Guest login" do?
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| 22:43 | We have guest features built into Fedora 8 and 9 now...
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| 22:43 | I wonder if they are relevant
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| 22:43 | <vagrantc> like autologin, but you can optionally log in with a specified user or server
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| 22:43 | like autologin, but it presents the login screen and doesn't automatically log in
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| 22:44 | <warren> oh
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| 22:45 | Is guest really the best name for that?
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| 22:45 | * vagrantc welcomes suggestions | |
| 22:45 | <warren> "Guest" the way we use it is a type of login where you have a throw-away profile
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| 22:45 | <vagrantc> what are the "guest features" you're talking about?
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| 22:45 | <warren> you login to a fresh GNOME or KDE session and everything is unique to you and thrown away when you log out
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| 22:45 | there can be multiple guests logged in without stepping on each other
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| 22:45 | <vagrantc> logged in as the same user?
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| 22:46 | <warren> I don't know how they do it
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| 22:46 | I have to ask
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| 22:46 | <vagrantc> well, that's basically the same use case, i think ...
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| 22:46 | <warren> ugh. I can't think now.
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| 22:47 | <vagrantc> we basically have an environment where anyone can walk in the door, press login, and get logged in to one server. but people who have accoutns log into a different server.
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| 22:47 | <warren> ooh
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| 22:47 | hm
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| 22:47 | <vagrantc> so adding that functionality to ldm...
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| 22:47 | <warren> how do you handle multiple people?
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| 22:47 | different login names?
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| 22:48 | <vagrantc> there are *[0-256] accounts, one for each potential ip address we give out
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| 22:48 | well, it's slightly more complicated, but that's the basic idea
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| 22:48 | <warren> oh
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| 22:49 | cool!
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| 22:49 | https://fedorahosted.org/liveusb-creator/
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| 22:49 | <vagrantc> the thin client chooses it's account name based on ip address
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| 22:49 | <warren> We've had the ability to convert Fedora's ISO's to bootable USB in the past, but it required a Linux host to do it.
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| 22:49 | a pain when you're trying to get windows users to try it
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| 22:50 | vagrantc, so the server is just trusting the client to choose a username?
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| 22:50 | <vagrantc> warren: yes.
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| 22:51 | warren: in the past, i've put in login hooks to prevent multiple users from loggin in simultaneously
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| 22:52 | er, multiple clients trying to use the same username
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| 22:52 | and we lock the anonymous login server down a little tighter
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| 22:54 | <warren> hmm
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| 22:54 | I really don't like the idea of the server just trusting the client
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| 22:55 | vagrantc, I'll look into how our guest login thing works and get back to you
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| 22:55 | vagrantc, it should really be the server's job to handle that.
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| 22:55 | <vagrantc> warren: well, you can set up whatever convoluted complicated setup you want, but this is extremely easy to set up.
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| 22:56 | <warren> easy != good
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| 22:56 | not necessarily at least
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| 22:56 | <vagrantc> easy != bad
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| 22:57 | <warren> vagrantc, oh.... and I heard some of GNOME upstream's plans for GDM and thin client type logins
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| 22:57 | vagrantc, ssh similar to ldm... good
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| 22:57 | <vagrantc> having been using a setup like this for 5+ years now at a place with hundreds of people using them on a weekly basis, i have yet to have had a problem with it.
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| 22:57 | <warren> vagrantc, entire X session within a X window running in another X.... bad and stupid.
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| 22:57 | vagrantc, their main desire for doing this is "to eliminate the flicker"
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| 22:57 | wtf...
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| 22:58 | * vagrantc can see the desire for doing that ... | |
| 22:58 | <warren> isn't that a misguided reason?
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| 22:58 | Even Windows Vista and MacOS X have not eliminated the flicker
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| 22:58 | <vagrantc> if it works well, i don't see what the real issue is
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| 22:59 | <warren> If you do that, you can't do things like compiz
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| 22:59 | and you lose most of the benefit of hardware acceleration
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| 22:59 | <vagrantc> oh well ...
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| 22:59 | <warren> indirect rendering and compositing is a HUGE smoothness and performance boost for a LTSP-like model
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| 22:59 | It also requires the client to have more video and system RAM. Older thin clients might fall over.
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| 23:00 | <vagrantc> dberkholz: well, slower than i would have liked, we definitely have space at freegeek saturday and sunday. probably could have monday, too if you wanted.
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| 23:00 | <warren> ahhhh
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| 23:00 | vagrantc, <halfline> it uses pam_namespace to generate separate home directories for each one
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| 23:00 | <vagrantc> nice!
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| 23:01 | <warren> auto-cleanup
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| 23:01 | <vagrantc> though my guess is that doesn't work with ssh logins
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| 23:01 | <warren> I bet it could
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| 23:01 | <vagrantc> due to ssh's privledge separation
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| 23:01 | <warren> oh
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| 23:02 | <vagrantc> hmmm....
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| 23:02 | <warren> vagrantc, I'll look into this.
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| 23:03 | <vagrantc> i guess you could use export HOME=$(mktemp -d)
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| 23:03 | though, even then, having all the processes running as a single user ... don't really like that
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| 23:04 | well, i guess you could have additional users or something ...
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| 23:04 | <warren> I need to learn more about how xguest works
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| 23:04 | <vagrantc> yeah, i'd like to hear more about it
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| 23:05 | though i don't see it as interfering with the patches Ryan52 has worked on
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| 23:05 | <warren> As long as that feature of LDM is not default I don't see a problem I guess
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| 23:06 | <vagrantc> yeah, it's got to be enabled by lts.conf (or environment variable)
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| 23:09 | <warren> vagrantc, hmm.. each parallel xguest is a new user, not the same user
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| 23:09 | <vagrantc> ah, good.
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| 23:10 | something like that would be very nice, but it's hard to imagine it working without a setuid root binary for creating/deleting the user and home directories
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| 23:10 | <warren> I need to figure out how it works
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| 23:10 | I would imagine it wouldn't be easy to get working with LDM's model
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| 23:10 | I dunno, need to see how it works.
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