IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 24 September 2010 (all times are UTC)
| 00:14 | * johnny looks for alkisg | |
| 00:17 | alkisg has joined #ltsp | |
| 00:31 | <muppis> johnny, do you have somekind summoning abilities?
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| 00:35 | <johnny> Cue fully-integrated, seamless local caching nameserver support for NetworkManager 0.8.2. If you have dnsmasq installed and set the “dns=dnsmasq” key in your /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf file then you’re all set. Distros can enable this by default, which we’ll be doing in Fedora 15 and later. Now you’ll get a local caching nameserver that will also do split DNS when you’re connected to a VPN, so that queries for resources on the
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| 00:35 | sweet!
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| 00:36 | alkisg, hah :) check these timestamps
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| 00:36 | [01:14] * johnny looks for alkisg
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| 00:36 | [01:17] alkisg has joined the group chat
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| 00:36 | <alkisg> Good morning people. Hey johnny, could you dance and bring sun on the weekend so that we can go swiming? :D
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| 00:36 | <johnny> alkisg, http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/2010/09/23/dont-try-to-run-honey/ that's the actual link
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| 00:37 | we need the sun :)
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| 00:37 | you can't steal it from us
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| 00:37 | this is our bookfair weekend
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| 00:37 | so.. we need all the sund we can get !
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| 00:37 | it might thunderstorm on sunday ..
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| 00:37 | :(
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| 00:38 | so.. sorry.. no sun for you this weekend
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| 00:38 | ask me next weekend :)
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| 00:38 | hah
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| 00:38 | alkisg, anyways, i thought you might find that link interesting
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| 00:38 | <alkisg> We should really make an ltsp-server-dnsmasq package :)
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| 00:39 | Let's nag vagrantc until he does :D
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| 02:05 | <gnunux> hi
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| 04:27 | <invito> Anybody got the parameter: LDM_LIMIT_ONE_SESSION=True , to work? if i log on at 2 clients with the same username, one of them gets thrown out of session.
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| 04:27 | <alkisg> That's what it's supposed to do..
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| 04:28 | <invito> Ok, but i would like that if the user already is logged on, no one else can use that username on a other client, because then the first login will get thrown out
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| 04:29 | <alkisg> There's no such functionality out of the box in ltsp
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| 04:29 | <invito> hmm, okay
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| 04:29 | <alkisg> You can use LDM_LIMIT_ONE_SESSION_PROMPT=True to get a dialog box
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| 04:29 | <ogra> would make a good wishlist bug though :)
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| 04:29 | <alkisg> So you'll know that someone is logged on somewhere else
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| 04:29 | But if you choose to continue logging in, then you'll throw the other person out
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| 04:30 | <invito> yea:) okay , ill try that one.
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| 04:30 | <alkisg> If you want it to act like you said, you just need to modify that dialog code so that it always returns "false" :)
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| 05:08 | <invito> you mean to LDM_LIMIT_ONE_SESSION_PROMPT=False ?
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| 05:39 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 05:57 | tuxbrother has joined #ltsp | |
| 05:57 | <tuxbrother> hello
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| 05:58 | anyone has expirience with Ubuntu LTSP?
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| 05:58 | <muppis> We are all Kosh. ;)
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| 05:59 | <biomorph> tuxbrother: Yes.
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| 05:59 | <muppis> tuxbrother, ofcourse. Just ask
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| 05:59 | <tuxbrother> nice :)
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| 05:59 | We used ubuntu 9.10 without problems
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| 05:59 | but since we upgraded to 10.04 LTS, it´s like a hell
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| 06:00 | <tuxbrother> the alternate installer fails with the automated ltsp install: building client chroot failed
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| 06:01 | manual building works, but it is slower the a 56K internet connection
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| 06:01 | *on the client
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| 06:02 | another problem is that is doesn't have an internet connection,
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| 06:02 | <invito> alkisg: False gets both logged in at the same time, True gives no warning popup
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| 06:02 | <tuxbrother> and yes, we are using 2 NIC's, one to the internet, one to the internal network
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| 06:02 | <alkisg> invito: no I didn't mean to change lts.conf. I meant to change the code of the script.
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| 06:03 | I.e. programming, not configuring.
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| 06:03 | <invito> oh okay, not an expert in that. But thanks
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| 06:03 | <alkisg> It's just shell commands. OK
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| 06:04 | <biomorph> tuxbrother: OK lets step back a second. You upgraded from 9.10 to 10.04? Or you reinstalled from scratch on 10.04?
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| 06:04 | <tuxbrother> reinstalled from scrath
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| 06:05 | *scratch
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| 06:05 | <alkisg> tuxbrother: the log of the installer would help. Also, you can use the alternate cdrom as an apt source when calling ltsp-build-client from an already installed system.
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| 06:06 | <tuxbrother> how do I view the log of the installer?
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| 06:06 | <alkisg> alt+ctrl+f3 or some other vt, and check /var/log or something like that
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| 06:07 | (while installing, that is...)
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| 06:07 | <tuxbrother> but nevermind, I have a set up Ubuntu 10.04
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| 06:07 | first, I want to make a try to fix it now
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| 06:07 | <alkisg> (02:05:40 PM) ... Also, you can use the alternate cdrom as an apt source when calling ltsp-build-client from an already installed system.
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| 06:07 | <tuxbrother> I didn't done that
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| 06:07 | is that wrong?
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| 06:08 | <alkisg> No, it isn't
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| 06:08 | It's just a way to install an ltsp chroot without using the internet
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| 06:08 | <tuxbrother> got it
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| 06:08 | <alkisg> Because you said it doesn't have an internet connection or it is slow
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| 06:09 | <tuxbrother> that's right
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| 06:09 | but I have spent tomorrow 2 hours in downloading updates
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| 06:09 | if I reinstall it, I must do that again
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| 06:10 | <tuxbrother> but just start with the first problem
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| 06:10 | internet on the clients fails
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| 06:11 | <biomorph> tuxbrother: That is probably because you do not have masquerading on the LTSP server (which is the machine with two nics?)
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| 06:12 | Do you know how you set it up on 9.10?
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| 06:12 | <tuxbrother> the installer.
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| 06:12 | it worked without a hitch ;)
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| 06:12 | <alkisg> Does internet fail when you logon normally?
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| 06:12 | <tuxbrother> no
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| 06:12 | <alkisg> When does it fail?
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| 06:12 | <tuxbrother> when I log on to the client
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| 06:13 | <alkisg> Yes, I mean, when you logon to gnome on the client, does it fail then?
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| 06:13 | <tuxbrother> I don't get the picture
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| 06:13 | <alkisg> When you logon on gnome on a client, you're working on the server
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| 06:13 | <tuxbrother> yes
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| 06:13 | <alkisg> So you don't need to do anything to get access to the internet
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| 06:13 | So, I don't get when it's working and when it doesn't, as both cases you said are on the server
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| 06:15 | Let me rephrase that. If you sit on the server, and open firefox, can you access the internet? I think you said "yes".
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| 06:15 | If you sit on a client, and open firefox, can you access the internet? I think you said "no" to that, but it doesn't really make sense, because on both cases firefox runs on the server.
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| 06:16 | <biomorph> Sorry - ignore my comment. You only need masquerading if you set Firefox to run as a local application.
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| 06:19 | <tuxbrother> strange
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| 06:19 | i have misspelled a network interface name
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| 06:20 | now the clients stuck on tftp while booting
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| 06:24 | <alkisg> Here's a page for tftp troubleshooting: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Troubleshooting/TFTP
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| 06:30 | <tuxbrother> tftp problem fixed
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| 06:31 | now when I boot up the client
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| 06:31 | both the server and the client don't have internet
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| 06:44 | <Appiah> dont the server have a internet connection?
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| 06:44 | then it's not really a ltsp issue.. check your settings
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| 07:40 | <markit> hi ppl :)
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| 07:40 | hi dgroos, any news about your forecoming updated translation of alkisg's script?
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| 07:41 | <alkisg> markit: if you want, join #linux.sch.gr, we're talking about that now there
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| 07:41 | <markit> ehm, in english? :)
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| 07:42 | <alkisg> Sure, dgroos is there too
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| 09:49 | <elias_a> Has anyone knowledge of interactive whiteboard devices that would work with LTSP?
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| 09:50 | Linux support seems to be only a dream in many cases.
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| 09:50 | Has anyone succeeded using something like Averpen?
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| 11:40 | <Kyle__> I asked this yesterday when no-one was arround, I'll try again...
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| 11:41 | <Kyle__> If I moved my /opt/ltsp/i386 or /opt/ltsp/images directory from an ubuntu server, to say Fedora (example, not really my plan), I could still serve up LTSP fine, as long as the Fedora server had the ltsp-server packages. Correct?
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| 11:42 | <vagrantc> wouldn't even need fedora ltsp packages, per se
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| 11:42 | <Kyle__> OK.
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| 11:43 | So, is there a way of building a new image on said other OS, without migrating one to it frist?
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| 11:43 | <vagrantc> Kyle__: you just need to configure DHCP, TFTP, NBD or NFS, and ldminfod
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| 11:43 | Kyle__: don't follow you... ?
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| 11:44 | Kyle__: "without migrating one to it" ??
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| 11:44 | <Kyle__> vagrantc: If I had a Fedora-LTSP server, is there a way I could build a Suse or Ubuntu ltsp image on it? Or is the only method building the image on it's native platform, then migrating.
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| 11:44 | <vagrantc> Kyle__: ah.
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| 11:44 | Kyle__: you could just set up a chroot to build it in
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| 11:45 | * Kyle__ nods | |
| 11:45 | <vagrantc> other than that, i don't believe so
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| 11:45 | <Kyle__> OK.
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| 11:46 | <vagrantc> it's theoretically possible, but it would require fixing a lot of issues.
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| 11:46 | * Kyle__ nods | |
| 11:46 | <vagrantc> and then maintaining those fixes, across multiple versions of other distros...
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| 11:46 | i suspect it would quickly drive us insane :)
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| 11:47 | more insane...
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| 11:47 | <Kyle__> OK. Well, there was always hope someone had gone through the trouble of building a system for that :)
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| 11:47 | * Kyle__ nods | |
| 11:47 | <Kyle__> Quite insane as it is...
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| 11:47 | <vagrantc> we'd have to police each other's plugins to make sure they place nice.
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| 11:47 | and all the dependent software
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| 11:48 | honestly, i can't fathom it being worth the trouble
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| 11:48 | not that that doesn't mean it isn't
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| 11:48 | hard enough keeping a distro compatible with older versions of itself :)
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| 11:49 | <Kyle__> Maybe using OpenVZ it would be possible...
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| 11:49 | Heh.
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| 11:49 | I should probably not worry about it. Right now I'm still fighting a kernel bug in ubuntu.
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| 11:51 | <vagrantc> i think a simple chroot would be enough, no need for OpenVZ
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| 11:54 | <Kyle__> vagrantc: Yea but with OpenVZ instead of standard chroot you should be able to build compleetly forign distros.
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| 11:54 | Like I said though, I shouldn't think about it for now.
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| 11:55 | * vagrantc has installed fedora and ubuntu chroots on debian before | |
| 11:55 | <Kyle__> And they worked fine?
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| 11:55 | <vagrantc> yeah
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| 11:55 | there's nothing in the ltsp build process that should be dependent on the running kernel
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| 11:55 | that would be the only real difference
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| 11:56 | * Kyle__ nods. | |
| 11:56 | <Kyle__> Neat.
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| 11:57 | <vagrantc> though the install process might be easier with some sort of virtualization... i.e. you can just use the plain installer CD or network install or whatever.
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| 11:58 | but to bootstrap an ubuntu/debian system, all you probably need is debootstrap
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| 14:55 | <alkisg> Thanks to dgroos, we have our first english "sch-scripts" version: http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/tosteki/index.php?topic=3220.0
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| 14:56 | (a classroom administration tool similar to italc but specifically designed for ltsp, thin + fat clients)
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| 14:57 | Most, but not all, of the UI is now translated to english, so it should be usable for anyone adventurous enough to try it.
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| 15:09 | <johnny> alkisg, any recommendation for sommething like tcm that works for fat clients?
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| 15:09 | <alkisg> johnny: sure, sch-scripts ;)
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| 15:09 | <johnny> i don't really need to view the screen like it does, just sending messages and blanking the screen
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| 15:09 | <alkisg> :P
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| 15:09 | You'll get the screen monitoring for free
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| 15:09 | <johnny> so.. will it do those 2 things?
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| 15:09 | well then.. alkisg .. awesome
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| 15:10 | <alkisg> Ah, message sending.. we don't have that, but we do have an "execute commands on clients" menu, which you can use to invoke zenity
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| 15:10 | <johnny> beep boop bop
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| 15:10 | oh :(
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| 15:10 | <alkisg> I'll put it in the todo list
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| 15:10 | <johnny> mostly we need to say "stop looking at porn" or "you've been on the computer for an hour"
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| 15:11 | <alkisg> It remembers the last commands you send, so you just need to type "zenity --info --text ..." once, and then replace the text there
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| 15:11 | <johnny> not sure what gets into people's heads that that it's acceptable to look at born porn in a public place..
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| 15:11 | s/born//
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| 15:12 | <markit> alkisg: ehm, in the (remote) event that sch-scripts don't work fine, can it be easely removed with aptitude purge, or does it screw up my installation (I guess is a sort of "beta" no?)
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| 15:12 | <alkisg> It can be removed safely with apt-get remove
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| 15:12 | <markit> Is your script something that stays apart from ltsp installation, or modifies it?
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| 15:13 | (thin client oly installation, at the moment)
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| 15:13 | <alkisg> It modifies some configuration files... let me list them on that post I linked above
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| 15:14 | (e.g. it reenables nbd compression, it removes nbd-proxy etc)
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| 15:15 | The "worst" thing is that it depends on dnsmasq, so if you're using dhcp3-server, you need to disable dnsmasq from its configuration file
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| 15:16 | It also creates an lts.conf, but if one already exists, it doesn't modify it
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| 15:16 | That's about it, let me put those on the forum post...
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| 15:17 | <alkisg> Ah, better yet, I'll upload a new one that doesn't do many of those things
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| 15:18 | (I'll leave the nbd stuff as I think they're for the best)
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| 15:26 | <alkisg> markit: ok, I uploaded a version that doesn't depend on dnsmasq
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| 15:26 | So it should be pretty non-intrusive now
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| 15:27 | (no it isn't beta; it's just too much customized for our local needs)
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| 15:28 | <markit> alkisg: I use dnsmasq
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| 15:29 | <alkisg> Ah. sch-scripts installs an /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp.conf file, delete that one and keep your own
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| 15:30 | * alkisg makes a new deb without that too... :) | |
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| 15:31 | <markit> urgh, italc uses encription? it's crazy
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| 15:31 | <alkisg> markit, dgroos: we also have an "ltsp_config" file in the chroot that automatically chooses the best defaults, should I delete that one too?
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| 15:32 | E.g. X_COLOR_DEPTH=16 for thin clients, default for fat clients
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| 15:32 | LDM_DIRECTX=True if unset, etc etc
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| 15:32 | You can override anything by the normal lts.conf, they're just different defaults...
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| 15:32 | <markit> I prefer set my own defaults when needed in host
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| 15:33 | <alkisg> ok, deleting...
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| 15:33 | <markit> btw, why do you have that in chroot?
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| 15:33 | <Kyle__> alkisg: I've been running that change in both labs for most of this week. So far so good.
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| 15:34 | <alkisg> markit: e.g. we want thin clients to use 16 bit color depth to save network bandwidth, so that they go faster
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| 15:34 | But we want fat clients to use 32 bit color depth
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| 15:34 | You can't do that from the normal lts.conf
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| 15:34 | <markit> no?
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| 15:34 | <alkisg> (without using mac-addresses for fat clients etc)
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| 15:34 | No
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| 15:35 | There's no "if" command in lts.conf
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| 15:35 | <markit> ah, conditionally you mean!
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| 15:35 | I got it now, ok
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| 15:35 | btw, maybe this idea should go "upstream" and make the lts.conf much smarter
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| 15:35 | since we have thin/fat configs to manage
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| 15:35 | <jammcq> hmm
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| 15:35 | <markit> hi jammcq :)
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| 15:36 | <jammcq> is a specific thin client sometimes booting as a fat client, and sometimes not?
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| 15:36 | <alkisg> jammcq: no, clients with < 500 MB ram are automatically booted as thin, otherwise as fat
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| 15:36 | (if a fat chroot is present)
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| 15:37 | markit: the problem is that not all people want the same defaults
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| 15:38 | <markit> alkisg: you should then leave the ltsp_config with just comments about it's usage and some suggested settings commented out
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| 15:38 | and mention it's existence in some documentation :)
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| 15:38 | <alkisg> Heh, that's only for our local needs, so feel free to create your own that suits your needs
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| 15:39 | There's an ltsp_config.d directory where you can drop configuration scripts on the chroot
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| 15:39 | <markit> good
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| 15:39 | btw, with "local" you mean entire Greece or what?
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| 15:40 | (local needs)
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| 15:40 | <alkisg> Entire greece
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| 15:40 | OK, done, uploaded to the forum link above
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| 15:40 | <markit> lol, my meaning of "local" is the school of my town
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| 15:41 | <alkisg> No dnsmasq dependency, no ltsp_config, no dnsmasq.d/ltsp configuration files anymore
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| 15:41 | <markit> is just a matter of importance of the installer, I guess, lol
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| 15:42 | <alkisg> dgroos: done, you can download from http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/tosteki/index.php?topic=3220.0 and test whenever you have time
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| 15:42 | <markit> alkisg: could you put those removed files somewhere? I'm sure there are useful defaults to learn from
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| 15:43 | <alkisg> markit: they're on our bazaar branch at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sch-devs/sch-scripts/trunk/files
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| 15:43 | <markit> hope can be downloaded from web, don't want to learn bazaar, I've already too much troubles with git :)
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| 15:43 | <alkisg> Sure, just click the link
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| 15:43 | <markit> alkisg: in any case, thanks once more for your help and script
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| 15:44 | <alkisg> np
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| 15:44 | <markit> I'm looking forward to test it
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| 15:44 | <alkisg> I hope it works ok for you
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| 15:44 | <markit> me too :)
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| 15:44 | <vagrantc> can't you create lts.conf options that trigger the code?
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| 15:44 | i.e. if boolean_is_true "$USE_CRAZY_SCH_SCRIPTS_DEFAULTS" ; then ...
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| 15:44 | <alkisg> vagrantc: X_COLOR_DEPTH=auto? Would you think that's ok?
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| 15:45 | Ah. Well, isn't it simpler to just remove our ltsp_config.d/* customization file?
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| 15:45 | <vagrantc> alkisg: depends on how generally useful the stuff you've implemented is
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| 15:45 | honestly, i think all of ltsp_config should be split into ltsp_config.d snippets
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| 15:46 | <alkisg> Not really. E.g. we default to LDM_DIRECTX=True, but that's just local preference...
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| 15:46 | There are some stuff that'd be useful upstream (like FAT_RAM_THRESHOLD, which I already commited some time ago), but not many of those
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| 15:47 | <alkisg> I totally agree about the ltsp_config.d snippets
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| 15:57 | <alkisg> I also think it'd be nice if a web-based lts.conf is used for non-cluster installations too, where the client sends its properties (RAM, CPU, NIC, graphics card, etc) and then the server can conditionally select the best lts.conf values for it...
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| 15:59 | <vagrantc> alkisg: implement as a snippet?
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| 15:59 | <alkisg> Right, that's what I've done so far, but I like the idea of the server deciding better
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| 16:00 | E.g. now all clients receive all LDM_PASSWORDs, with the server implementation each client would only get its own
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| 16:05 | The same web script could also be used to provide server info, replacing ldminfo to save resources.
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| 16:06 | (I've tried python's SimpleHTTPServer, seems to work fine)
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| 16:11 | <vagrantc> using passwords is a stupid idea anyways..
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| 16:13 | <jammcq> alkisg: interesting idea
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| 16:14 | we kicked around something like that many years ago, but didn't want to get into the business of supporting Apache. a smaller http server might work out nicely
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| 16:14 | <alkisg> jammcq: ltsp-cluster already uses a web interface, that could merge those 2 interfaces, simplifying the code
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| 16:14 | <jammcq> sure
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| 16:15 | <alkisg> I'd like to provide an initial implementation for comments, but I'd have to do it after my phd, in 2 years... :-/
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| 16:15 | <Kyle__> thttpd
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| 16:15 | It's small, and pretty darned good.
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| 16:15 | <jammcq> heh, 2 years goes by in a nanosecond around here
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| 16:16 | <alkisg> Kyle__: a python server would be faster because all conditional logic could be then be in python
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| 16:16 | ...instead of e.g. invoking php or a cgi shell script
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| 16:16 | <Kyle__> alkisg: granted, but in the case of using a prebuilt-binary like that, it's already tested, not re-inventing the wheel, etc etc.
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| 16:17 | <vagrantc> as long as it doesn't mean completely dropping support for the current way of using lts.conf ...
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| 16:17 | <alkisg> A SimpleHTTPServer in python is less than 10 lines, and I think it's also tested
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| 16:17 | <Kyle__> alkisg: If you wanted to implement it in a highlevel language, do all the logic straight in the sever, you could do python, perl, ruby, lau, etc etc.
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| 16:17 | <alkisg> vagrantc: right, it should be backwards compatible for at least a decade... :D
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| 16:17 | <vagrantc> alkisg: :)
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| 16:18 | <Kyle__> what is this, debian?
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| 16:18 | I think they've kept binary compatibility for at least that long....
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| 16:18 | <vagrantc> debian typically only supports a release for 3-4 years, actually.
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| 16:18 | i.e. the length of the release + 1 year
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| 16:19 | <alkisg> Judging by how many people still ask for LTSP 4 support, I'd go for more :D
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| 16:19 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 16:19 | ltsp4 was basically done ... in 2006? or earlier?
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| 16:19 | <Kyle__> Actually aren't they due for a new relase soon? Like in 2015?
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| 16:20 | <alkisg> No idea, I came around in 2008, so that's paleontology for me
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| 16:20 | <jammcq> LTSP-4.2 was released in January of 2005
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| 16:20 | just before Linux world
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| 16:20 | <vagrantc> ltsp 5 wasn't really ready till 2006 or so
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| 16:20 | <jammcq> we had the hackfest at my office in Sept 2006
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| 16:21 | <vagrantc> right
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| 16:21 | though 5.1.1 wasn't release till 2008-03-26
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| 16:21 | but we'd been using it for quite some time...
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| 16:22 | that was the first version we started coordinating on release versions across distros...
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| 16:23 | march of 2007 was the first 5.0.1 release.
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| 16:23 | at least to ubuntu
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| 16:24 | <jammcq> http://xkcd.com/797/
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| 16:24 | that's a great one
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| 16:26 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 16:26 | <Kyle__> jammcq: I put those up on my door every once in awhile.
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| 16:27 | jammcq: The best was when a full time Oracle-Forms developer had to ask me to explain the "Johnny Drop Tables" strip. She didn't get it.
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| 16:27 | <jammcq> the thing is, printing it misses the message that shows up when you hover your mouse over it
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| 16:27 | sometimes that's the funniest part
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| 16:28 | * Kyle__ nods | |
| 16:28 | <Kyle__> Reminds me, I forgot to put that under the lightening strip I put on my door today...
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| 16:29 | * alkisg loved http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/windows_7.png | |
| 16:30 | <markit> lol
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| 17:24 | <rpm_> does anyone know of a way to get make ltsp optimized for playing streaming media?
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| 17:31 | <alkisg> Without localapps? LDM_DIRECTX=True is the best you can get...
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| 17:32 | With localapps, you can just run the streaming client (e.g. vlc) locally
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| 17:47 | <rpm_> Thanks, I am running it with firefox locally with adobe and java which sort of helps but is still pretty choppy. The other issue is I can't seem to get the right combination of plugins installed to play quicktime in the browser, do you know how to do that? thanks in advance.
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| 17:49 | <alkisg> Can you define "streaming media" better?
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| 17:49 | Also, what are you client specs? (cpu/ram)?
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| 17:51 | <rpm_> they are the disklessworkstation 1600 series thin clients, 1.6 GHz Atom, 1 GB DDRII 10/100/1000 Ethernet
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| 17:52 | <alkisg> Local firefox+flash shouldn't be choppy on them...
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| 17:52 | Are you sure it's running locally?
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| 17:55 | <rpm_> As far as I can tell, I installed the plugins and browser into the image, updated the image and set the parameters local_app settings. When I use the browser it looks a little different now.
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| 17:55 | I am running ubuntu 10.04
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| 17:56 | <alkisg> If you type file:///etc/ltsp_chroot on that local firefox, what do you see?
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| 17:56 | (in the url box)
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| 17:57 | <rpm_> I am not at the terminal right now so I can't check, what should I see?
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| 17:57 | <alkisg> LTSP_CHROOT=/opt/ltsp/i386
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| 17:58 | That would verify that it's indeed a local firefox
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| 17:59 | If it is a local firefox, and it's choppy, then I don't think there's anything more you can do... that has the same speed as if it was locally installed.
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| 17:59 | <rpm_> ok, thanks I'll check that. what about the quicktime issue? What should I be running as far a pluggins for quicktime.
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| 18:00 | * alkisg has no clue about quicktime, not using it... | |
| 18:00 | <rpm_> K, thanks.
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