IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 28 February 2016 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:21 | <r3pek> hey guys
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| 01:22 | any info on why isn't ltspfs 1.4 tagget on lp?
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| 01:22 | *tagged
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| 01:22 | or released.... :-/ since it's actually tagged in bzr
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| 01:39 | <Hyperbyte> r3pek, stick around... usually at this time there's not a lot of developers active in here.
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| 01:39 | <r3pek> i will ;)
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| 01:40 | hope they see the message ;)
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| 07:28 | <alkisg> r3pek: what do you mean it's not tagged? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltspfs-trunk/changes/178?start_revid=178
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| 07:28 | 1.4 is tagged in r178...
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| 14:21 | <LanZ> hi...
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| 14:23 | <LanZ> i'm looking for thinclient solution for school... with minimum budget... zero knowledge on linux... any recommendation?
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| 15:18 | <r3pek> alkisg: it's not on launchpad for download
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| 15:18 | how do i as a packager directly download the 1.4 version?
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| 15:18 | launchpad only has 1.1 :(
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| 15:20 | <r3pek> actually.... it had it yesterday.... today it doesn't
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| 16:12 | <r3pek> any dev around?
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| 17:18 | <alkisg> r3pek: the launchpad milestones have not been in use for a long time, that's why I also deleted the ltspfs 1.1 milestone
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| 17:18 | Which distro are you packaging ltsp for?
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| 17:28 | <alkisg> Note that ldm and ltsp milestones as well are completely out of date...
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| 17:30 | <alkisg> vagrantc: hi there
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| 17:30 | r3pek is asking about the ltspfs milestones and source releases in launchpad
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| 17:30 | E.g. https://launchpad.net/ltsp/, see the "series and milestones" diagram
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| 17:31 | I.e. where would he download the latest ltspfs tarball? He could of course get it from debian, e.g. https://packages.debian.org/sid/ltspfs ==> [ltspfs_1.4.orig.tar.gz]
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| 17:32 | But it seems that at some time we used to maintain source releases on launchpad as well, but we haven't done so in years
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| 17:32 | <vagrantc> i don't recall ever doing so
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| 17:32 | <alkisg> E.g. here's a downloads page from launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ltsp/+download
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| 17:33 | <vagrantc> not sure what populates those milestone things
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| 17:33 | <alkisg> It's a manual thing
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| 17:33 | Maybe knipwim did that to be able to get the tarball for gentoo
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| 17:33 | (for distros that fetch + compile from source)
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| 17:33 | * vagrantc was never informed | |
| 17:33 | <vagrantc> sure
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| 17:34 | <alkisg> So apparently ltsp-5.4.5.tar.xz is our last release and has 1776 downloads
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| 17:34 | <vagrantc> yeah, that's kind of worrysome
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| 17:35 | <alkisg> Are you in favor of deleting those, or maintaining them?
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| 17:35 | (let's also wait for r3pek to tell us his exact use case...)
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| 17:36 | <vagrantc> well, i don't know how to put one there, and i don't really like the idea of having to do extra steps ...
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| 17:36 | <alkisg> cyberorg: how do you get ltsp or epoptes source tarballs? Plain bzr branch?
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| 17:38 | vagrantc: I think that from https://launchpad.net/ltsp/ltsp-trunk we're supposed to click "create milestone" if we want to prepare for a release (ok we don't want that much overhead) or "create release" once it's released
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| 17:38 | I'll try to make one for the current ltsp
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| 17:44 | Meh, I need to create the tarball myself, then gpg sign it, then upload it to launchpad... some integration :(
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| 17:44 | Nope, I'm not willing to do that even as a test, case closed :D
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| 17:44 | <vagrantc> eesh.
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| 17:44 | so, hopefully we can just delete them.
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| 17:45 | unless there's some way to import them from a distro release
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| 17:45 | some automated way
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| 17:48 | <alkisg> OK I uploaded the one from debian (orig.tar.xz renamed to plain tar.xz), without gpg
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| 17:48 | https://launchpad.net/ltsp/+download
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| 17:48 | Let's see if anyone actually downloads that :)
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| 17:49 | <vagrantc> and then we'll catch them!
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| 17:49 | <alkisg> Haha
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| 17:50 | The "top contributors" list is also quite fun, "Lauri Võsandi 151 points", "Vagrant Cascadian 93 points"
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| 17:51 | We should start scoring more :P
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| 17:52 | Apparently, reviewing translations is much more effective for one's karma than writing the code :D
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| 17:54 | <vagrantc> hah
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| 17:54 | <r3pek> alkisg: i'm packaging for arch
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| 17:55 | <vagrantc> so, i guess i really need to become fluent in other languages to really increase my karma
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| 17:55 | <alkisg> r3pek: nice, have you been doing so for a while? is ltsp working fine there?
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| 17:55 | <r3pek> don't know ;)
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| 17:55 | <alkisg> Ah, first time?
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| 17:56 | <r3pek> just started packaging it
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| 17:56 | <alkisg> r3pek: are the links from debian's site good enough for you?
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| 17:56 | <r3pek> well.... they are
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| 17:56 | <alkisg> E.g. https://packages.debian.org/sid/ltspfs => [ltspfs_1.4.orig.tar.gz]
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| 17:56 | <r3pek> stilll.... i like it where upstream actually have tagged releases ;)
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| 17:56 | looks weird to go get debians packages :-/
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| 17:57 | <vagrantc> upstream has been the people doing the work
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| 17:57 | <alkisg> orig.tar.gz is not a package though, it's the source code
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| 17:57 | <r3pek> yeah... i get it
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| 17:57 | <alkisg> Arch has binary packages, right?
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| 17:57 | <r3pek> so, if there's not other way to get it, i'll get it from there
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| 17:57 | no problem
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| 17:57 | <vagrantc> back when there were other distros, every distro would tag a release when it was ready for their distro
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| 17:57 | <r3pek> alkisg: kinda
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| 17:57 | <vagrantc> so there wasn't really an upstream release without a distro release
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| 17:58 | <alkisg> r3pek: the "http://http.debian.net/debian/pool/main/l/ltspfs/ltspfs_1.4.orig.tar.gz" link, will you be the only one to use it, or does it go in some "build-from-source" recipe?
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| 17:58 | <r3pek> i can do a -bin package
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| 17:58 | <vagrantc> part of that is because the "upstream" code is pretty distro-specific
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| 17:58 | <r3pek> normally it's build from source, unless we don't have source :)
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| 17:59 | <alkisg> I think gentoo expects the users themselves to download the source
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| 17:59 | <r3pek> gentoo was getting from i was getting
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| 17:59 | <alkisg> That's why knipwim took the effort to manage upstream releases
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| 17:59 | <r3pek> was following they're ebuilds
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| 18:00 | https://gitweb.gentoo.org/proj/ltsp.git/tree/sys-fs/ltspfs/ltspfs-1.1.ebuild
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| 18:00 | see? ;)
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| 18:00 | <alkisg> The key question for me is:
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| 18:00 | Will the arch user ever need to download the ltsp source in order to use it?
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| 18:01 | <r3pek> the package is supposed to build it from source
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| 18:01 | <vagrantc> to be GPL compliant, need to make sure the source is readily available...
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| 18:01 | <r3pek> if there is one
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| 18:01 | <alkisg> Does the user build the package, or an arch server builds it?
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| 18:01 | <r3pek> in my case
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| 18:01 | the user
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| 18:01 | i'm making the package to AUR
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| 18:02 | still not a dev :-(
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| 18:02 | but since i need it.... i'll put it on AUR
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| 18:02 | (aur aka Arch User Repository)
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| 18:02 | <vagrantc> that's a user-contributed packaging repository?
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| 18:02 | <alkisg> What goes on AUR? A binary package, or an ebuild file?
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| 18:02 | <r3pek> they're kinda like ebuilds
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| 18:03 | but they can install binary packages
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| 18:03 | still.... it's weird when we should have the source
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| 18:03 | i know u guys use LP, but even github generates a tar.gz from tags
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| 18:03 | lp apparently does not
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| 18:04 | and i don't want to depend on bzr just to get the tagged release from LP
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| 18:05 | <alkisg> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/tarball/2710
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| 18:05 | It's using a revision number though, not the tag
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| 18:05 | I think that you could start with "http://http.debian.net/debian/pool/main/l/ltspfs/ltspfs_1.4.orig.tar.gz", where only the version changes and it's easy to put it in an ebuild,
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| 18:05 | <r3pek> ah
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| 18:06 | need to check that then
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| 18:06 | <alkisg> and if all goes well and you still want the upstream tarballs, maybe you could manage them like knipwim used to
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| 18:06 | <vagrantc> although http.debian.net is apparently having maintenance probelms :(
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| 18:07 | <alkisg> (works for me from here...)
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| 18:08 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i seem to recall you had problems when you generated a stretch image? apparently lots of users are reporting things like that
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| 18:08 | <alkisg> vagrantc: yup, 2-3 problems tehre
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| 18:08 | I think we were talking about it here, so we can find them in the irclogs
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| 18:09 | <vagrantc> alkisg: basically, the whole point of httpredir.debian.org is to redirect to a "close" mirror... but sometimes it's redirecting to broken mirrors, and it's broken mirror detection isn't working
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| 18:09 | <alkisg> Ah, mirrors were not my only issue...
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| 18:09 | <vagrantc> (and http.debian.net is a CNAME for httpredir.debian.org now)
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| 18:10 | better to use a reliable mirror like ftp.de.debian.org or ftp.us.debian.org
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| 18:10 | <alkisg> http://irclogs.ltsp.org/?d=2016-02-20
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| 18:10 | * vagrantc liked being able to use a generic, not location-specific mirror for the defaults | |
| 18:10 | <alkisg> The mirror was the first problem, but I also had an issue with linux-image-486 not being available
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| 18:12 | <vagrantc> oh yeah, linux-image-486 ...
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| 18:12 | * vagrantc needs to fix that | |
| 18:13 | <vagrantc> that was a change *late* in the jessie release cycle, but they left the old one in for jessie
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| 18:14 | <alkisg> r3pek: if you need any help with ltsp, ping us... did you manage to boot any clients yet?
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| 18:15 | <vagrantc> looks like i should test i386 too periodically...
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| 18:15 | * vagrantc has gotten in the habit of only testing amd64 | |
| 18:15 | <vagrantc> should also give armhf a whirl
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| 18:16 | heh. still have kfreebsd code in there!
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| 18:16 | haven't tested that since at least 2011 ... and it never quite worked
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| 18:16 | * alkisg can't understand this in popcon: | |
| 18:17 | <alkisg> http://popcon.debian.org/ : amd64 : 141246 i386 : 50123
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| 18:17 | sounds reasonable
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| 18:17 | <vagrantc> alkisg: ok, so the simplest thing to do is default to linux-image-586, and require manually specifying kernel on wheezy.
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| 18:17 | <alkisg> http://popcon.ubuntu.com/ : amd64 680722, i386 2069066
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| 18:17 | ...so in ubuntu, 3 times more users are using i386 than amd64?
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| 18:19 | <vagrantc> prevalence of old i386 CDs or something maybe?
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| 18:19 | <alkisg> They're talking about dropping i386 cds after 16.04, no idea...
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| 18:20 | *isos
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| 18:21 | <vagrantc> considering that wheezy will be out of full support any day now ... requiring manually specifying the kernel seems reasonable.
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| 18:22 | <alkisg> Isn't there a generic "linux-image" package that is valid in all cases?
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| 18:25 | <vagrantc> alkisg: what do you think this is, ubuntu?
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| 18:25 | <alkisg> Haha
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| 18:29 | <vagrantc> i guess there's still some conditional logic for older releases ... i guess i can make a mess of this.
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| 18:35 | <alkisg> Since you're in a mood, maybe also put an ltsp 5.5.6 wheezy backport out there? :D
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| 18:36 | <vagrantc> didn't i already upload one to my test repository?
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| 18:37 | * alkisg made the stretch image at that point and didn't get to test the wheezy one | |
| 18:41 | <vagrantc> deb https://cascadia.debian.net/~vagrant/debian/ wheezy-backports-sloppy-UNRELEASED main
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| 18:42 | <r3pek> alkisg: still making the packages
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| 18:43 | i'll report back when everything is packaged :)
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| 18:47 | <vagrantc> alkisg: er, probably http instead, otherwise you need to install apt-transport-https in both the server and the chroot.
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| 18:47 | though i guess that might be feasible with debootstrap includes
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| 18:53 | alkisg: ok, pushing a commit now for i386 kernel selection on debian
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| 19:01 | <r3pek> someone correct me if i'm wrong. everything is gplv2 right?
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| 19:02 | <vagrantc> i think that's the intention
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| 19:03 | we could do a better job of making it clear
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| 19:03 | <alkisg> is it gpl2 or gpl2+?
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| 19:03 | <r3pek> everything is kinda spread out all over the place....
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| 19:05 | <vagrantc> r3pek: this isn't a typical probject
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| 19:05 | <r3pek> not saying it is :)
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| 19:06 | <vagrantc> r3pek: it's not like it's possible to simply ./configure && make && make install
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| 19:06 | <r3pek> just trying to make some sense out of it while packaging ;)
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| 19:06 | <vagrantc> that said, it could be organized much better
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| 19:06 | <r3pek> need to make 2 ltspfs packages ;)
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| 19:06 | <vagrantc> we've made various attempts at organizing over the years...
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| 19:06 | <alkisg> LTSP is one of the most messy packages, as its main purpose is to work around other issues to make netbooting possible
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| 19:06 | <r3pek> just becase there are files installed on the client that aren't on the server
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| 19:07 | <vagrantc> yes.
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| 19:07 | ldm and ltspfs actualyl should build fine, but then you need to manually create the server and client portions
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| 19:08 | unless you just create one package that has all the bits and install it in both places
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| 19:08 | <r3pek> that could be done
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| 19:09 | one package installs everything regardless of it's the server or the client
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| 19:09 | but since you guys say it should be different, i'll make it different
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| 19:11 | <alkisg> Haha, I run 'ls' in some remote pc and got only the word "error" as the output...
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| 19:11 | It took me 1 sec to realize that's the only file in the current directory...
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| 19:11 | <vagrantc> it gives a little more flexibility to have separate packages.
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| 19:12 | <alkisg> cd $(mktemp -d); touch "$(ls asdf 2>&1)"; ls
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| 19:13 | Fun :P :D
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| 19:33 | <r3pek> guys
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| 19:33 | http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Packaging/LtspFS says "cp init-ltsp.d/common/* /usr/share/ltsp/init-ltsp.d"
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| 19:33 | but that "common" dir isn't there
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| 19:33 | should it be everything on init-ltsp.d/ ?
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| 19:34 | <alkisg> ./client/Gentoo/share/ltsp/init-ltsp.d
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| 19:34 | ./client/share/ltsp/init-ltsp.d
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| 19:35 | Packagers should overwrite the files in the common dir with the distro specific files
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| 19:35 | The common dir was renamed to what I pasted above
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| 19:49 | <r3pek> ah... ok
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