IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Channel log from 3 February 2009 (all times are UTC)

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01:05	<alkisg> !lts.conf
01:05	<ltspbot> alkisg: "lts.conf" is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtsConf
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06:39	<Yggdrasill_> hi all
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07:12	<polytan> hi
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07:37	<polytan> is pxelinux.cfg/default rewritten all the time when building a new image/kernels ?
07:38	<alkisg> With ltsp-update-kernels, I just reported a bug yesterday (ubuntu)
07:38	<polytan> ok
07:38	because I did a nice default file and everything has been removed :(
07:39	<alkisg> Copy it to /opt/ltsp/i386/boot/pxelinux.cfg/default so that it doesn't get overwritten
07:39	<polytan> hum
07:40	and ity will be read there by the tftp daemon ?
07:40	<alkisg> No, but ltsp-update-kernels copies this file to tftp dir, so if they contain the same things, even if it's overwritten, it doesn't matter
07:41	https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/324637
07:41	But the "quick hack" is not good for other distros that don't have this problem (e.g. fedora).
07:41	<polytan> thanks :)
07:42	I have to do it again so :(
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08:25	<bobby811> k anyone awake
08:25	need some help here
08:25	ltsp problems
08:25	<laga> !ask
08:25	<ltspbot> laga: "ask" is Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least 15 minutes after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
08:26	<bobby811> 2.6.16.1-ltsp-2
08:26	cannot detect the network card
08:26	kernel panic
08:27	dhcp is running on server machine
08:27	but cannot get other workstations to boot up
08:27	with pxe
08:28	<ogra> sonds like ltsp4 ... not many people that can help with that anymore ... just wait and with uck someone comes by who knows the old code
08:28	*luck
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08:31	<ScorpKing> hi guys. i've been trying all day to get a different usplash theme for the ltsp clients but no matter what i do the usplash theme does not change. any ideas?
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08:33	<Gadi> ScorpKing: well, what exactly did you do?
08:34	:)
08:34	<ScorpKing> Gadi: a shorter answer will be what i didn't do ;)
08:34	<Gadi> you need to update the splash in the chroot, as well as update initramfs and update kernels
08:34	<bobby811> any ideas for me Gadi
08:34	<Gadi> usplash starts in initramfs
08:35	bobby811: here's an idea: tell me what ur question is
08:35	I just got here
08:35	:)
08:35	<bobby811> k
08:35	cannot detect the network card
08:35	dhcp is running on server machine
08:35	pxe network boot for ltsp thin client
08:35	<Gadi> what error do you get?
08:35	<bobby811> broadcom network card
08:35	kernel panic
08:35	could not auto detect the network card
08:35	<Gadi> what distro and ltsp version?
08:36	sounds like 4.2
08:36	<bobby811> fedora core 6
08:36	2.6.16.1-ltsp-2
08:36	<Gadi> yeah, you're on LTSP 4.2
08:36	old stuff
08:36	<bobby811> oh
08:36	<Gadi> if its broadcom, it is either b44 NIC
08:36	<ScorpKing> Gadi: i installed a different usplash theme in chroot and made sure /etc/alt.../usplash... points to it, then update kernel image in chroot and exit chroot. ltsp-update-kernels + rebuild the image and then back to square one.
08:37	<warren> bobby811: http://k12linux.org
08:37	<Gadi> bobby811: you can pass NIC=b44 on the kernel command line
08:37	and see if that works
08:37	<bobby811> how Gadi
08:37	im new at this
08:37	<warren> Gadi: just point those old users at k12linux.org
08:37	<Gadi> ok
08:37	well, some fear change
08:37	:)
08:37	<ogra> Gadi, very unlikely b44 was in the old 4.2 kernel :)
08:37	<Gadi> bobby811: choices:
08:38	<bobby811> well im in my linux class here at college
08:38	<Gadi> 1. Upgrade to LTSP5 (preferred) as LTSP 4.2 is no longer supported
08:38	<bobby811> even the instructor doesnt know the answer
08:38	<warren> bobby811: LTSP 4.2 stopped development in 2004
08:38	<Gadi> 2. Pass a kernel parameter and hope it works
08:38	here's how:
08:38	<warren> bobby811: get the modern version from k12linux.org, currently based on Fedora 10. New release yesterday.
08:38	<Gadi> copy down the MAC address of your thin client
08:38	<bobby811> i dont know the mac address
08:39	<ScorpKing> Gadi: i'll be back some other time. have to run
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08:39	<Gadi> then, create a file in: /tftpboot/lts/2.6.16.1-ltsp-2/pxelinux.cfg/01-aa-bb-cc-dd-ee-ff
08:39	where MAC would be: AA:BB:CC:DD:EE:FF)
08:39	that file that you create should be a copy of the default file in that same directory
08:40	then, edit the line with the kernel arguments adding: NIC=b44
08:40	save
08:40	and reboot the client
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08:40	<Gadi> bobby811: to find the MAC address, boot the client with the cable unplugged
08:40	it should report to you the MAC
08:40	<din_os> yeah but how do you put a smiley in the mac address? lol :) hey Gadi thx for yesterdays tips everything works fine now
08:41	<Gadi> din_os: cool
08:41	<cyberorg> hi, i have issue with sound playing from localapps, works fine normal ltsp session, locally PULSE_SERVER is set correctly, but still get (snd_pcm_dmix_open) unable to open slave
08:42	checked permissions of /dev/dsp, /dev/snd/* mixer etc, all looks ok
08:42	where can i look more?
08:42	<Gadi> cyberorg: what application?
08:42	<cyberorg> Gadi, i tested with firefox+youtube, and aplay xyz.wav
08:43	<Gadi> and none work?
08:43	<cyberorg> no
08:43	<Gadi> does suse redirect alsa to pulse?
08:43	<cyberorg> Gadi, yes
08:43	<bobby811> Gadi it dont reportt the mac
08:43	get error
08:44	pxe-e61 media test failure
08:44	pxe-mof exiting broadcom pxe rom
08:44	<Gadi> bobby811: ok, plug it back in and just after it gets a response from DHCP.... press the Pause key
08:44	<cyberorg> Gadi, hmm, good hint, let me check that config
08:44	<bobby811> k
08:45	<Gadi> or check your syslog (/var/log/messages)
08:45	should be the last client to make a DHCPDISCOVER request
08:45	<bobby811> k i got the mac address
08:45	<warren> bobby811: seriously, get the modern version from k12linux.org
08:45	<Gadi> ok, translate the : to -, make all lowercase, and prefix with 01-
08:45	<warren> bobby811: your drivers have not been updated since 2004
08:45	<Gadi> and that is the filename
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08:47	<Gadi> warren: he's in a college - this is edumucational
08:47	:)
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08:49	<bobby811> k that didnt work Gadi
08:49	still same error
08:49	made file
08:49	prompt 0
08:49	label linux
08:49	kernel bzImage-2.6.16.1-ltsp-2
08:49	append rw root=/dev/ram0 initrd=initramfs.gz
08:49	#option option-128 e4:45:74:68:00:00; # NOT a mac address
08:49	#option option-129 "NIC=ne IO=0x300";
08:49	#option option-128 code 128 = string;
08:49	#option option-129 code 129 = text;
08:49	NIC=b44
08:49	insiode is this
08:49	for filename default
08:50	<Gadi> it needs to be inline with the append line
08:50	<bobby811> ../tftpboot/lts/2.6.16.1-ltsp-2/pxelinux.cfg
08:50	<Gadi> should be: append rw root=/dev/ram0 initrd=initramfs.gz NIC=b44
08:51	<bobby811> k let me try that
08:51	<Gadi> and should be in filename: ./tftpboot/lts/2.6.16.1-ltsp-2/pxelinux.cfg/01-aa-bb-cc-dd-ee-ff
08:51	(replaced with your MAC address)
08:51	<bobby811> k
08:52	<Gadi> for edification, what you are doing is passing a kernel argument called NIC with value b44, which the initrd(initramfs) will use to select the driver
08:52	since it cannot select it on its own
08:52	<bobby811> k now get a new error
08:52	<Gadi> by creating that file, you make sure the setting only applies to a client with an ethernet interface with that MAC address
08:52	<bobby811> could not find kernel image linux
08:53	<Gadi> !pastebot
08:53	<ltspbot> Gadi: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
08:53	<Gadi> bobby811: use that link to paste your file
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08:55	<ltsppbot> "bobby-school" pasted "thin client wont boot sits now at boot:" (11 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/231
08:55	<Gadi> ok, delete the first 2 lines
08:55	and delete all of the commented lines
08:57	<bobby811> k
08:57	done
08:58	still same error now
08:58	could not find kernel image linux
08:58	<Gadi> can you paste again?
08:59	<ltsppbot> "bobby-school" pasted "thin client wont boot sits now at boot:" (11 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/232
08:59	<Gadi> uhh.... that looks the same
08:59	:P
08:59	<bobby811> well i deleted the lines u told me to delete in conf
08:59	<Gadi> no you didnt
08:59	you just pasted the same file
09:00	with no lines deleted
09:00	<bobby811> kernel bzImage-2.6.16.1-ltsp-2
09:00	append rw root=/dev/ram0 initrd=initramfs.gz NIC=b44
09:00	is wat the file reads atm
09:00	<Gadi> oh, compare that with: http://pastebot.ltsp.org/232
09:00	:)
09:00	<bobby811> yea
09:00	diff
09:00	but conf is set to those 2 lines only
09:01	<Gadi> ok
09:01	<bobby811> now its sitting at boot:
09:01	could not find kernel image: linux
09:01	<Gadi> can you look at the permissions on the file
09:01	make the permissions match the permissions of the default file
09:01	in that directory
09:02	<bobby811> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 90 Feb 3 14:54 00-1e-c9-46-6b-6b
09:02	<Gadi> ls -l default
09:02	oh, and the filename is wrong
09:02	<bobby811> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 90 Feb 3 14:54 00-1e-c9-46-6b-6b
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09:02	<Gadi> it should be: 01-00-1e-c9-46-6b-6b
09:02	<bobby811> is the dwefault
09:03	<Gadi> no, thats the same as what you just pasted
09:03	do this:\
09:03	pwd
09:03	<bobby811> [root@localhost pxelinux.cfg]# pwd
09:03	err
09:03	.../tftpboot/lts/2.6.16.1-ltsp-2/pxelinux.cfg
09:03	<Gadi> ok, good start
09:03	you should have 2 files in that directory:
09:03	default
09:04	01-00-1e-c9-46-6b-6b
09:04	<bobby811> default i renamed to backup
09:04	<Gadi> no, keep that default
09:04	or nothing will boot
09:04	<bobby811> k
09:04	<Gadi> default is the default config for all pxe boot thin clients
09:04	unless there exists one for a specific one
09:04	which you are creating
09:05	and which should be named:
09:05	01-00-1e-c9-46-6b-6b
09:05	note the 01- prefix
09:05	<bobby811> k
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09:05	<Gadi> "01" is the designation for ethernet
09:05	<bobby811> ah ok
09:06	still same error
09:06	could not find kernel image: linux
09:07	<Gadi> ls
09:07	<bobby811> [root@localhost pxelinux.cfg]# ls
09:07	01-00-1e-c9-46-6b-6b backup2 default
09:07	[root@localhost pxelinux.cfg]#
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09:09	<Gadi> ok, lets reset
09:09	cp default 01-00-1e-c9-46-6b-6b
09:09	and reboot the thin client
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09:10	<SDuensin> Greetings, all.
09:11	<bobby811> k did that
09:11	rebooting client
09:11	<Gadi> you should hopefully be back at the NIC error
09:11	<bobby811> somewat yea
09:11	<Gadi> somewhat?
09:12	<bobby811> b44 errors now
09:12	<Gadi> good
09:12	now, simply add NIC=b44 on the end of the append line in the 01-...
09:12	file
09:12	<bobby811> i did
09:12	<Gadi> and reboot the client
09:12	oh
09:12	<bobby811> rebooting client
09:12	<Gadi> ok
09:13	<bobby811> now diff error
09:13	<Gadi> pray tell
09:13	<bobby811> running /linuxsrc
09:13	mouiting /proc
09:13	linuxsrc: installing b44 driver
09:13	modprobe b44
09:13	<Gadi> so far so good
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09:14	<bobby811> insmod /lib/modules/2.6.16.1-ltsp-2/kernel/drivers/net/b44.ko
09:14	running dhcpcd on port 67
09:14	error dhcpcd failed
09:14	kernel panic- not syncing attempted to kill init
09:15	<Gadi> do you know what kind of broadcom card/chip it has?
09:15	<bobby811> um
09:15	<Gadi> broadcom has a few different drivers
09:15	you can try: tg3
09:15	<bobby811> BCM5721
09:15	<Gadi> ah, change b44 to tg3
09:15	I think
09:15	<bobby811> k
09:16	* Gadi faces the somber reality that he's been doing this way too long
09:16	<cyberorg> no luck, can;t figure out, remote apps play fine, localapps not :(
09:16	<bobby811> k rebooting client again
09:16	<Gadi> cyberorg: try running: ltsp-localapps "padsp firefox"
09:16	(of course, you need pa-utils in the chroot)
09:17	<bobby811> same error Gadi
09:17	dhcpd failed
09:17	gets to
09:17	running dhcpcd on port 67
09:17	then fails
09:19	<Gadi> bobby811: according to this it is definitely tg3: http://www.broadcom.com/support/ethernet_nic/downloaddrivers.php
09:19	but, you may have old drivers
09:19	at this point, either replace the NIC, compile in the driver, or upgrade to LTSP5
09:19	<bobby811> k how hard to upgrade to ltsp5
09:20	<Gadi> easy
09:20	well, you would prolly be looking at a server upgrade to FC10
09:20	so, maybe not super easy
09:20	<bobby811> oh
09:20	<Gadi> can you upgrade your server?
09:20	<bobby811> thats not an option here in class
09:20	as f10 not supported on these machines
09:20	<Gadi> well, warren- what do you say to that?
09:20	:)
09:21	bobby811: is this a computer class?
09:21	<cyberorg> Gadi, that didnt work
09:21	<bobby811> yes
09:21	<Gadi> bobby811: excellent! you get to learn about how the Linux kernel works :)
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09:22	<Gadi> (unless you take the easy way out and replace the network card in the client)
09:22	<warren> Gadi: btw, how does the client know if a floppy is inserted?
09:23	I've never used that with localdevs
09:23	<cyberorg> Gadi, i have xterm in client open via localapps
09:23	<Gadi> warren: with floppies the drive is mounted
09:23	so, it accesses the media each time it is accessed
09:23	<warren> bobby811: k12linux.org has a LiveUSB image, you can try Fedora 10 without installing it to the hard drive. You can even boot thin clients over the network from that LiveUSB demo mode.
09:23	<Gadi> it does not know/care if the floppy is there or not until you try to look at it
09:24	<warren> Gadi: but without a desktop icon that appears how do you know there is a floppy at all?
09:24	<Gadi> there should be a desktop icon
09:24	<warren> oh, if your client has a floppy the desktop icon ALWAYS appears?
09:24	<Gadi> right
09:24	<warren> oh neat
09:25	<Gadi> because the drive is always there, not the media
09:25	it is different than CDs that way
09:26	cyberorg: do you have padsp on the client?
09:26	<warren> nod
09:26	beware padsp
09:26	<cyberorg> Gadi, yes
09:26	<warren> oh wait
09:26	nevermind
09:26	<bobby811> dunno if ltsp 5 will install on core 6
09:26	but will try
09:27	<warren> bobby811: it wont
09:27	<bobby811> oh
09:27	<warren> bobby811: read k12linux.org
09:27	<bobby811> guess this project needs scrapped
09:27	as its the final day for it
09:27	<warren> bobby811: you can boot the LiveUSB on your server and see if it runs at all.
09:27	oh
09:27	too bad
09:28	<Gadi> bobby811: all you need is a network card and a screwdriver
09:28	:)
09:28	<warren> bobby811: what exactly is the project?A
09:28	<bobby811> thin clients
09:28	<warren> bobby811: K12Linux is SO EASY you could be booting thin clients within 15 minutes
09:28	<bobby811> booting core6 from a 2nd workstation wioth no hdd
09:28	dont have any spare thumbdrives
09:29	<warren> bobby811: can you burn a DVD? that works too.
09:29	<bobby811> running from pxe
09:29	no burner
09:29	<warren> I'm sorry then. It is too bad, you are very close.
09:29	<bobby811> yea
09:29	oh well
09:29	teacher shoulda done his homework
09:29	<Gadi> bobby811: can you pick a different client?
09:29	<bobby811> nope
09:30	ill have teacher read this
09:30	<Gadi> bobby811: wanna learn how to compile a driver?
09:30	<bobby811> sure Gadi
09:30	<Gadi> ok. take a deep breath
09:30	<warren> Gadi: do you even know if b44 will work in that old kernel?
09:30	Gadi: doesn't he need the exact kernel source of that old kernel?
09:30	<Gadi> warren: actually, he needs tg3
09:30	<warren> oh
09:30	huh
09:30	that old kernel should have tg3
09:31	<Gadi> warren: he just needs the headers
09:31	<warren> maybe it isn't built into the image
09:31	<Gadi> maybe
09:31	lets check the initramfs
09:31	bobby811: ready
09:31	<bobby811> yep
09:31	<Gadi> ok, lets make a working dir in /tmp
09:31	mkdir /tmp/work
09:31	<bobby811> k
09:32	<Gadi> if you are still in the pxelinuc.cfg dir, do: cp ../initrd* /tmp/work
09:32	<ltsppbot> Someone pasted "localapps sound error" (6 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/233
09:32	<Gadi> oops
09:32	cp ../initramfs* /tmp/work
09:32	<cyberorg> Gadi, ^^ thats the error
09:33	<Gadi> cyberorg: try: paplay
09:33	<cyberorg> same plays fine from remote terminal
09:33	<Gadi> instead of aplay
09:33	bobby811: still here?
09:33	<cyberorg> Gadi, that works
09:34	<Gadi> cyberorg: then, pulseaudio plumbing is fine
09:34	alsa redirection is not
09:36	cyberorg: try: pasuspender -- firefox
09:36	in the xterm
09:38	<cyberorg> Gadi, sound server is not local, not suspending
09:38	<Gadi> should be local
09:38	are you sure that is a local xterm?
09:38	<cyberorg> PULSE_SERVER is tcp:127.0.0.1:4713
09:39	yes it is local :)
09:39	<Gadi> ah
09:39	maybe it considers it not local because of the tcp:
09:39	nm
09:40	even if it did work, it wouldnt be a solution
09:40	you need to focus on getting the alsa redirection going
09:40	<cyberorg> ok, where do i look for that?
09:40	<Gadi> maybe talk to stgraber about how it works in ubuntu
09:40	you should have ~/.asound* files
09:41	<cyberorg> no such files in user's home
09:43	<Gadi> cyberorg: I have a .asoundrc with this line: </home/romm/.asoundrc.asoundconf>
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09:43	<bobby-school> ok Gadi im backl
09:43	<Gadi> and a .asoundrc.asoundconf with these:
09:43	pcm.!default { type pulse }
09:43	ctl.!default { type pulse }
09:44	bobby-school: hey, there
09:45	<bobby-school> this is bobby811
09:45	school isp cutout for a few
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09:47	<Gadi> ok
09:47	<CAN-o-SPAM> Gadi: get my e-mail?
09:47	<Gadi> so, bobby-school, create /tmp/work and copy the initramfs file there
09:48	<bobby-school> i did
09:48	<Gadi> CAN-o-SPAM: I don't think so
09:48	lemme check spam folder in a sec
09:48	maybe it gobbled it up
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09:48	<Gadi> bobby-school: cd /tmp/work
09:48	<bobby-school> k
09:48	<Gadi> then: file initramfs*
09:48	that will tell you the filetype
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09:53	<Gadi> bobby-school: ?
09:54	bobby-school has quit IRC
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09:58	<bobby811> damn comcast
09:59	why in hell does a college use a shit connection
10:00	k ready Gadi
10:01	<warren> Gadi: Ryan Niebur, Eric Harrison, Vagrant Cascadian, Gideon Romm, Oliver Grawert
10:01	Gadi: who else contributed significantly to LTSP upstream in the last 2 years?
10:01	(including Eric Harrison ceremonially)
10:01	<Gadi> oh, and here I thought you were naming the fictional characters in your next novel
10:01	bobby811: cd /tmp/work
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10:01	<Gadi> file initramfs*
10:02	<bobby811> k
10:02	<Gadi> so, what filetype is it?
10:02	<bobby811> .gz
10:03	can use gunzip filename.gz
10:03	<Gadi> yup
10:03	then run file on it again and you'll see what it is uncompressed
10:03	<bobby811> yep
10:03	now i see finitramfs file
10:04	<Gadi> and what does file say?
10:04	<bobby811> unreadable
10:04	15535 lines
10:04	unreadable code
10:04	<Gadi> no
10:04	type: file initramfs*
10:04	<bobby811> initramfs
10:05	initramfs: ASCII cpio archive (SVR4 with no CRC)
10:05	[root@localhost work]#
10:05	<Gadi> there ya go
10:05	its a CPIO archive
10:05	you familiar with those?
10:05	<bobby811> nah
10:05	<Gadi> its like tar
10:05	<bobby811> k
10:05	<Gadi> so, we need to unpack it
10:05	<bobby811> k
10:05	how?
10:06	<cyberorg> Gadi, do you have .pulse folder?
10:06	<Gadi> bobby811: cat initramfs*\| cpio -i -d -H newc –no-absolute-filenames
10:07	that oughtta do it
10:07	<cyberorg> it has stuff pointing to /tmp/pulse-XXXXX, which is broken on local term
10:07	<bobby811> 5731 blocks
10:07	[root@localhost work]# ls
10:07	initramfs
10:07	[root@localhost work]#
10:07	)
10:07	k i get this
10:08	<Gadi> cyberorg: I have one but both files inside are empty
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10:08	<Gadi> bobby811: no files?
10:08	<bobby811> nope
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10:09	<bobby811> k i see stuff now
10:09	<cyberorg> Gadi, 34973dd741cfeddab5dcb2b148845718:runtime -> /tmp/pulse-iLYLqq10A3ro
10:09	<bobby811> [root@localhost work]# ls
10:09	bin etc initramfs mnt proc sys usr
10:09	dev init lib oldroot sbin tmp var
10:09	[root@localhost work]#
10:09	<Gadi> bobby811: great!
10:10	<cyberorg> that is in .pulse, that link is broken on the local shell as the /tmp/pulse-XXXX does not exist there, could that be the reason?
10:10	<Gadi> the initramfs is a little filesystem that the kernel uses to set things up
10:10	before mounting the actual filesystem
10:10	<bobby811> k
10:10	<Gadi> now, do:
10:10	find lib/modules\|grep tg3
10:10	and we will see if there is a tg3 kernel module in there
10:10	<bobby811> [root@localhost work]# find lib/modules\|grep tg3
10:10	lib/modules/2.6.16.1-ltsp-2/kernel/drivers/net/tg3.ko
10:10	[root@localhost work]#
10:10	<Gadi> seems that there is
10:11	but, it must be old
10:11	or it must not recognize your card
10:11	so, that's what we will be replacing
10:11	<bobby811> k
10:12	<Gadi> to compile a new driver, you need two things:
10:12	1. driver code (found here: http://www.broadcom.com/support/ethernet_nic/netxtreme_server.php)
10:12	2. either the kernel source code for that kernel OR the kernel headers for that kernel
10:13	if FC6 is on the same kernel (2.6.16) you may be able to get #2 from the yum repository
10:13	go for the headers if/when available
10:13	<bobby811> Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.18-1.2798.fc6 #1 SMP Mon Oct 16 14:37:32 EDT 2006 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
10:14	is the kernel
10:14	<warren> would LTSP 4.2 use the same kernel as the host OS? probably not.
10:14	<Gadi> maybe you can find the older kernel in the repository somewhere
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10:14	<bobby811> may just give up on it
10:14	or should we continue
10:14	which driver to dl
10:15	the linux 1?
10:15	<Gadi> thats the spirit!
10:15	:)
10:16	hold on -maybe we can get something to help
10:16	<bobby811> but it wont unzip
10:16	i tried
10:16	<Gadi> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/CustomLtspKernels
10:17	http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LTSP-42#ltsp_kernel_kit
10:17	there we go
10:17	grab that ltsp_kernel_kit
10:18	that should have what you need
10:18	<bobby811> which 1
10:18	core4?
10:20	<Gadi> ltsp_kernel_kit
10:20	<bobby811> nah fuck it
10:20	class almost over
10:20	told instructor to scrap it'
10:21	<Gadi> hehe
10:21	<bobby811> class ends in 30mins
10:21	<Gadi> fair 'nuff
10:21	<bobby811> out of time
10:22	thanks for all the help though
10:22	<Gadi> np
10:22	<cyberorg> Gadi, i think that was it, deleting .pulse fixed it
10:22	<Gadi> cyberorg: cool
10:22	everythings coming up Millhouse
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10:29	<cliebow> as in Nixon?
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10:31	<polytan> @+
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10:56	<Blinny> Can you specify scripts in /etc/X11/?? to run at user logout?
10:58	or is it in /opt/ltsp/.../usr/lib/ldm/rc.d/K##-scriptname ?
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14:20	<warren> vagrantc: ping
14:20	vagrantc: you ran an entire desktop session as local app before? how?
14:21	<vagrantc> warren: i made a session on the server that called ltsp-localapps with the --wait option ...
14:21	warren: i.e. ltsp-localapps --wait your-favorite-session
14:21	warren: i don't remember the exact syntax ... it was kind of a weird idea, in some regards... but maybe not as crazy as it sounds.
14:21	<warren> oh
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14:22	<vagrantc> so i added code to ltsp-localappsd to check for the value of LTSP_COMMAND_WAIT xprop, and if it's set, rather than backgrounding the process, it waits until the process finishes...
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14:23	<Merri> any fedora k12 ltsp
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14:31	<Merri> Anyone on using ltsp in Active Directory
14:35	<warren> vagrantc: when?
14:36	Merri: you should talk to k12osn list
14:36	Merri: people there use it
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14:36	<_UsUrPeR_> Using ubuntu 8.04, trying to figure out why an external WD USB drive won't mount on my client. According to dmesg it's being found, and assigned to /dev/sda, but it doesn't go past that. The user I have is currently in the Fuse group, and USB flash drives work fine on the same client. I have also added "LOCALDEV = True" to the lts.conf
14:37	<vagrantc> warren: ltsp-trunk 888 and 889
14:37	warren: october
14:38	Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
14:38	<Q-FUNK> hm
14:38	<alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: maybe it's formatted with ntfs?
14:38	<_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: ubuntu should be able to read/mount that though shouldn't it?
14:38	* _UsUrPeR_ thinks it is formatted with ntfs
14:39	<alkisg> I don't think ntfs-3g is in the chroot... I'm not sure, really.
14:39	<_UsUrPeR_> hmm
14:39	* _UsUrPeR_ checks the filesystem
14:40	<alkisg> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg -l ntfs-3g => nothing
14:40	warren has quit IRC
14:40	<Merri> thanks
14:41	<_UsUrPeR_> ok, from tty1 on the client, the following worked fine: mount /dev/sda1 /tmp/disk/
14:41	Merri has left #ltsp
14:41	<_UsUrPeR_> I am able to open the drive properly
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14:43	<warren> vagrantc: Gadi: Ryan52: hmmm, if we want to start non-ldm clients, currently it unconditionally turns stuff on like pulseaudio, jetpipe and stuff
14:44	perhaps those should be instead added to the startup scripts of screen sessions like ldm?
14:44	keep the function in ltsp-client, but move the calling command to ldm
14:44	<vagrantc> perhaps
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14:55	<Gadi> warren: jetpipe is useful for all clients
14:55	*sessions
14:55	pulseaudio can be, too
14:55	they are non-ldm specific services
14:56	<stgraber> vagrantc, Gadi: Hey, just had a fun bug at the office. We all are in the same primary group and plugging an usb key creates a directory in /media/ with permissions 750 making everyone to see it, even if it can't read the content (as it's mounted using fuse)
14:56	<warren> Gadi: if you're running GNOME as a local app, it wants to start its own pulseaudio
14:56	<stgraber> how difficult would it be to force the permission to 700 after the directory is created ?
14:56	<vagrantc> stgraber: very.
14:57	<stgraber> really ?
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14:57	<Gadi> gnome as a local app?
14:57	<warren> stgraber: I thought we came up with a solution to that?
14:57	<Gadi> dude, if you run gnome as a localapp set SOUND=False
14:57	:P
14:57	<stgraber> warren: well, the bug just appeared again here with one of the latest snapshot from bzr so ...
14:57	<vagrantc> stgraber: not dificult to do, just difficult to do without giving write permission to a directory in /media
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14:57	<warren> stgraber: anyhow, the fix I theorized earlier but didn't code was to make it 700, but use fsacl's to grant an individual user access.
14:57	<stgraber> vagrantc: can't we just chmod 700 the directory we create in /media ?
14:58	<warren> stgraber: oh!
14:58	stgraber: what version of gvfs?
14:58	<vagrantc> stgraber: that was my proposal ages ago, but people didn't want to give write permission to directories in /media
14:58	<warren> stgraber: gvfs needs to be patched to hide it
14:58	<stgraber> warren: 1.0.2
14:58	<warren> stgraber: there were two levels of the fix
14:58	gvfs-1.0.3 here
14:59	<stgraber> vagrantc: well, permission is already 750 so 700 isn't worse :)
14:59	<warren> I wanted to use fsacl's on the /media/* directories created by ltspfs, but there was concern that some distros don't support fsacls.
14:59	and it might have weird interactions with fuse
15:00	<vagrantc> stgraber: i don't remember the exact issues, but there was something wrong with 700, and i gave up fighting.
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15:01	<warren> I documented what was wrong with 700
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15:01	<warren> hmm
15:01	in one of my commits
15:02	Q-FUNK has left #ltsp
15:02	<warren> I can't find it in bzr log
15:03	<johnny> blame warren
15:03	hehe
15:03	there are multiple distros that don't use a fuse group
15:03	gentoo and opensuse are two of them
15:04	<vagrantc> stgraber: there were also discussions on the list about it
15:04	<johnny> nor do they put users in their own group
15:04	<warren> crap
15:04	I just booted the latest ltsp, and it failed to write the group for localapps use in /etc/groups
15:04	<johnny> fail.
15:05	<warren> wasn't there talk about this recently?
15:06	<vagrantc> warren: is /etc writeable for you?
15:06	<warren> vagrantc: it wrote to /etc/passwd but not /etc/groups
15:07	<vagrantc> warren: if /etc/group is writeable, but /etc/ itself is not, it will fail. i had to patch for debian as we use bind-mounted files.
15:07	<warren> vagrantc: oh damn
15:07	vagrantc: what is the patch?
15:07	<vagrantc> warren: usermod writes /etc/group$someextension
15:07	<warren> vagrantc: i wish I knew this before we did that major new release
15:07	vagrantc: you had to patch usermod?
15:07	<vagrantc> the patch is ugly...
15:08	warren: i'll give you a link in a moment
15:08	<warren> vagrantc: I wont be allowed to change usermod
15:09	<vagrantc> warren: not a patch to usermod, just to ltsp code
15:09	<warren> ok good
15:09	<vagrantc> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vagrantc/ltsp/ltsp-debian-experimental-packaging/annotate/head%3A/patches/localapps-edit-group-directly.dpatch
15:11	all that functionality to replace stupidity in usermod ...
15:11	assuming a writeable /etc ...
15:11	<warren> vagrantc: we need this permanently in ltsp-trunk
15:12	If we can think of a shell cmd to check if you are allowed to write in a directory, this can be automated.
15:13	<vagrantc> "touch /etc/" seems to work.
15:13	<warren> without writing
15:13	vagrantc: ah this works
15:13	vagrantc: [ -w /etc ] && echo writable
15:13	<vagrantc> warren: no, that'll jest test if the filesystem actually thinks it's writeable.
15:14	you actually need to try to write to it.
15:14	<warren> are you sure?
15:14	<vagrantc> about 99.5%
15:14	<warren> I just tested [ -w /etc ] on my client
15:14	vs real system
15:14	seems to work
15:15	* vagrantc is skeptical
15:15	<vagrantc> last i looked, it just checked filesystem permissions, but maybe it's smarter now ... testing if the filesystem is actually read-only.
15:16	<warren> it works here
15:17	vagrantc: I'm adding your patch upstream with [ -w /etc ] as the conditional
15:18	<vagrantc> warren: alright :)
15:18	if it works for me, so much the better, and if it doesn't, i'll just maintain a tiny patch for the test
15:19	<warren> - myGroups=$(echo ${myGroups},${myGroups1} \| sed -e 's/^,//g' -e 's/,$//g')
15:19	+ myGroups=$(echo ${myGroups},${myGroups1} \| tr ',' '\n' \| sort -u \| tr '\n' ',' \| sed -e 's/^,//g' -e 's/,$//g')
15:19	vagrantc: what does this do?
15:20	<vagrantc> warren: removes duplicates, which actually matters if you're looping through them.
15:20	doesn't matter with usermod, but doesn't hurt either.
15:20	<warren> vagrantc: how would that look to remove duplicates within the conditional?:
15:21	vagrantc: after myGroups=$(echo ${myGroups},${myGroups1} \| sed -e 's/^,//g' -e 's/,$//g') had run
15:21	<vagrantc> myGroups=$(echo ${myGroups} \| tr ',' '\n' \| sort -u \| tr '\n' ',')
15:21	i think.
15:22	<warren> i'll try that
15:23	<vagrantc> that'll prevent the extra calls to tr and sort for those who are fortunate enough to not need them
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15:24	<vagrantc> warren: though i wonder if it wouldn't be good to get some patches upstream to usermod and other similar tools to not require a writeable /etc
15:24	<warren> vagrantc: hmm
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15:24	<warren> vagrantc: I think readonly root is a dying breed, WAY too many little things to fix.
15:24	<vagrantc> warren: it's quite possibly true ...
15:26	<warren> OLDIFS="$IFS"
15:26	IFS=,
15:26	what does IFS do?
15:26	<vagrantc> although it's no so insanely many ... having worked with read-only roots for so long ... i think it's actually a fairly small set of things
15:26	warren: it's what makes the for loop split on , instead of whitespace
15:27	<warren> http://fpaste.org/paste/2777
15:27	i'm testing this.
15:27	* vagrantc isn't a big fan of using IFS ...
15:27	<vagrantc> but sometimes it's the only sane way of doing things...
15:28	warren: you're missing a "fi" i think.
15:28	<warren> crap
15:30	hmm, that didn't work for one reason or another
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15:31	<vagrantc> warren: you tested [ -w /etc/ ] on a read-only root ?
15:31	<warren> yes
15:33	<alkisg> vagrantc, you could leave the groups splitted by '\n' and use while read line instead of IFS...
15:33	<vagrantc> warren: it's been working in debian lenny+experimental since january 9th, at least...
15:33	<alkisg> *while read group
15:34	<vagrantc> that would be nicer ...
15:34	<warren> I just verified that [ -w /etc ] is owrking
15:34	the stuff in the conditoinal isn't
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15:34	<vagrantc> "works for me"
15:35	<warren> myGroups=$(echo ${myGroups} \| tr ',' '\n' \| sort -u \| tr '\n' ',')
15:35	this is new
15:35	maybe it isn't right
15:36	<vagrantc> oh, maybe that's actually an issue...
15:36	that's a little different...
15:36	<warren> vagrantc: oh, something else is broken
15:36	myGroups contains:
15:37	test context=unconfined_u:unconfined_r:unconfined_t:s0-s0:c0.c1023,
15:37	<Gadi_eeepc> lol
15:37	sorry
15:37	couldnt resist
15:38	<warren> what is the format of what is supposed to be in that variable?
15:39	vagrantc: turns out it is broken in the part where it gets myGroups
15:39	<Gadi_eeepc> warren: it should be a comma-delimited list of groups
15:39	that the user belongs to
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15:43	<warren> warren@newcaprica etc]$ /usr/bin/getent group\|egrep "[,:]warren(,\|$)"\|cut -d: -f1\| tr '\n' ',' \| sed -e 's/,$//g')
15:43	bash: syntax error near unexpected token `)
15:44	Gadi_eeepc: was this tested with bash?
15:44	<Gadi_eeepc> warren: you have an extra parentheses at the end
15:44	take that off
15:44	<warren> oops
15:44	/usr/bin/getent group\|egrep "[,:]warren(,\|$)"\|cut -d: -f1\| tr '\n' ',' \| sed -e 's/,$//g'
15:44	this returns nothing
15:45	[warren@newcaprica etc]$ LANG=C /usr/bin/id \| awk -F groups= '/groups=/{print $2}' \| sed -e 's/[0-9]*(//g' -e 's/)//g'
15:45	warren context=unconfined_u:unconfined_r:unconfined_t:s0-s0:c0.c1023
15:45	Gadi_eeepc: is this supposed to print out only my group name?
15:45	Gadi_eeepc: and nothing else?
15:46	<Gadi_eeepc> warren: yeah
15:46	well, no
15:46	all the roups you belong to
15:46	<vagrantc> group names
15:46	<warren> [warren@newcaprica etc]$ /usr/bin/id
15:46	uid=500(warren) gid=500(warren) groups=500(warren) context=unconfined_u:unconfined_r:unconfined_t:s0-s0:c0.c1023
15:46	<vagrantc> apparently, works very differently on fedora...
15:46	doh.
15:46	<warren> what does it look like on yours?
15:46	<Gadi_eeepc> thats bizarre
15:47	<warren> please show me the output?
15:47	<vagrantc> uid=1000(vagrant) gid=1000(vagrant) groups=4(adm),20(dialout),24(cdrom),25(floppy),29(audio),44(video),46(plugdev),108(netdev),110(vboxusers),111(fuse),1000(vagrant)
15:47	dirigeant has joined #ltsp
15:47	<vagrantc> made the assumption that groups= was the last section...
15:48	* Gadi_eeepc nods
15:48	<warren> you need to look for groups= explicitly
15:48	<Gadi_eeepc> yeah
15:49	<warren> what's the best way?
15:49	<vagrantc> it greatly simplified the code from using "groups" as it already included commas ...
15:50	<warren> at least my groups= is the same format
15:50	<Gadi_eeepc> id \|awk '{print $3}'
15:50	<warren> are we just going to trust that the third one is groups?
15:50	<Gadi_eeepc> what does that give you, warren?
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15:50	<warren> Gadi_eeepc: that works
15:50	<vagrantc> works for me.
15:50	<Gadi_eeepc> ok
15:50	<vagrantc> that's, like, so much simpler.
15:51	hopefully we can rely on that.
15:51	we'll rely on it till we can't? :)
15:51	<warren> sure
15:51	<Gadi_eeepc> LANG=C /usr/bin/id \| awk '{print $3}'\|cut -d= -f2\|sed -e 's/[0-9]*(//g' -e 's/)//g'
15:51	<warren> [warren@newcaprica etc]$ LANG=C /usr/bin/id \| awk '{print $3}'\|cut -d= -f2\|sed -e 's/[0-9]*(//g' -e 's/)//g'
15:51	warren
15:52	<Gadi_eeepc> yeah
15:52	:)
15:52	<warren> [test@newcaprica ~]$ LANG=C /usr/bin/id \| awk '{print $3}'\|cut -d= -f2\|sed -e 's/[0-9]*(//g' -e 's/)//g'
15:52	mock,test
15:52	seems to work
15:52	I'll commit this.
15:52	<Gadi_eeepc> cool
15:54	<warren> http://fpaste.org/paste/2781
15:54	testing this now
15:54	suggest cleanups now
15:55	hm, that didn't work
15:57	<vagrantc> warren: comment out 22, the myGroups de-dupe line
15:57	<warren> vagrantc: the de-dupe line is leaving a comma at the end
15:58	<vagrantc> then the user will get added to each group multiple times, if there are dupes, but i don't think that causes problems.
15:58	warren: of course.
15:58	:)
15:59	<Gadi_eeepc> make it echo -n
15:59	in the de-dup line
15:59	<warren> vagrantc: still failed to add anything to /etc/group
15:59	<vagrantc> "echo -n" is not consistant across shells
15:59	<Gadi_eeepc> really?
15:59	<warren> really?
15:59	what shells?
15:59	<Gadi_eeepc> hehe
16:00	<vagrantc> bash behaves differently that dash, i think.
16:00	<Gadi_eeepc> no way
16:00	<vagrantc> or is it "echo -e"
16:00	<warren> [warren@newcaprica ldm-rc.d]$ dash
16:00	$ echo -n "hello"
16:00	hello$ exit
16:00	[warren@newcaprica ldm-rc.d]$ echo -n "hello"
16:00	hello[warren@newcaprica ldm-rc.d]$
16:00	<vagrantc> shells with an echo built-in vs. shells that fall back to /bin/echo
16:00	* warren uses echo -n
16:00	<warren> oh
16:01	* Gadi_eeepc thinks you are thinking of echo -e
16:01	<vagrantc> maybe
16:01	so many of these things...
16:01	<warren> echo -n is in several other scripts
16:01	<Gadi_eeepc> yeah
16:01	<warren> including some of the debian specific scripts
16:01	<Gadi_eeepc> warren: does adding -n fix the prob?
16:01	<warren> Gadi_eeepc: no
16:01	CAN-o-SPAM has quit IRC
16:02	<warren> getting closer though
16:02	BrunoXLambert has quit IRC
16:02	<warren> hmm, echo -n didn't eliminate the trailing ,
16:02	<vagrantc> the debian patch has a sed on the trailing de-dupe line ...
16:03	npman has quit IRC
16:03	<warren> I added sed 's/,$//'
16:03	that worked in removing the trailing , but stil didn't add to /etc/group
16:03	<Gadi_eeepc> how does the de-dup line get rid of dups anyway?
16:04	seems it just sorts things
16:04	warren: I assume you do not have writable /etc, right?
16:04	<warren> Gadi_eeepc: nod
16:05	Gadi_eeepc: hence we're adding the non writable /etc conditoinal
16:05	<vagrantc> Gadi_eeepc: sorts duplicate groups from getent vs. id
16:06	i gotta run some errands ...
16:07	<warren> oh
16:07	<Gadi_eeepc> warren: and you don't see your user in the new /etc/group line?
16:07	<warren> I don't have /var/cache/ltsp-localapps/
16:07	when was that added?
16:07	<Gadi_eeepc> that been around for a while
16:07	<warren> how long?
16:07	<Gadi_eeepc> I think since we worte localapps
16:07	*wrote
16:08	<warren> I had your earlier localapps code working here
16:08	and I never had that directory before
16:09	<Gadi_eeepc> well, my earlier code added stuff to /etc/group and pruned dups
16:09	<warren> in-place
16:09	?
16:09	<Gadi_eeepc> copying only the pristine to var cache
16:09	<warren> ooh
16:09	so my copy failed
16:09	<Gadi_eeepc> and restoring pristine from var cache
16:09	<warren> but it did succeed before
16:09	<Gadi_eeepc> so, you prolly never had the pristine restored
16:09	:)
16:09	<warren> that worked now
16:10	<Gadi_eeepc> but, then vagrantc changed it so it doesnt edit /etc/group dirrectly
16:10	butt copies it to a working file
16:10	cool
16:10	bobby_C has quit IRC
16:12	<warren> Gadi_eeepc: what is supposed to restore it to pristine? I logged out and it is still there.
16:12	<Gadi_eeepc> what is still there?
16:13	RobertLaptop has quit IRC
16:13	<Gadi_eeepc> it should restore the original /etc/group
16:13	<warren> Gadi_eeepc: what script should restore it?
16:13	Gadi_eeepc: and when?
16:13	<Gadi_eeepc> in the localapps scrript, there is a cleanup
16:13	the cleanup happens when localappsd dies
16:13	<warren> oh
16:14	<Gadi_eeepc> which should be when the Xserver restarts
16:14	does it not?
16:14	<warren> nope
16:14	<Gadi_eeepc> at one point vagrantc had said something about not seeing the stuff after ltsp-localappsd run at all
16:15	is localappsd still running?
16:15	even after logout?
16:15	<warren> that's on which end?
16:15	running on client?
16:15	no
16:15	<Gadi_eeepc> client
16:15	hmm...
16:15	oh...
16:16	I wonder if it is because the subshell is a child of the xinit process
16:16	and it dies along with X
16:16	hmm...
16:16	we need to get the subshell to dissociate then
16:16	<warren> Gadi_eeepc: where is the code that runs when localappsd dies?
16:17	<Gadi_eeepc> in the localapps screeen script
16:17	*screen
16:17	there is a subshell
16:17	in that code
16:17	that is backgrounded
16:17	<warren> which is what?
16:17	<Gadi_eeepc> what is what?
16:17	<warren> what file is the local apps screen script?
16:17	<Gadi_eeepc> ah
16:17	one sec
16:18	its in ldm/rc.d/
16:18	if you have the latest, it should be: X01-localapps or some such
16:18	the same script you were editing
16:18	just now
16:19	<warren> Oh i see
16:19	yeah, it isn't getting there.
16:20	<vagrantc> Gadi_eeepc: yeah, i still don't ever get any of the post-localappsd cleanup code executed
16:21	<warren> # Clean up localapps menu
16:21	if boolean_is_true "$LOCAL_APPS_MENU" && [ -n "${TMP_XDG_MENU}" ]; then
16:21	ssh -S ${LDM_SOCKET} ${LDM_SERVER} rm -rf "${TMP_XDG_MENU}"
16:21	fi
16:21	Gadi_eeepc: how is this supposed to ssh if localappsd died only after logout?
16:21	vagrantc: I vote we not fix the cleanup yet, this is not a regression
16:22	<Gadi_eeepc> 1 sec - ph call
16:23	<vagrantc> i've for the moment given up on fixing it ...
16:23	the post-localappsd cleanup code, that is
16:24	<Gadi_eeepc> ah, I know what happened
16:24	<vagrantc> i think most, if not all of the cleanup issues are double-checked in other ways, at least.
16:24	<warren> I pushed my changes to that file
16:24	<Gadi_eeepc> back before we ran ldm out of xinit, the rc.d files kept going
16:24	even after the Xserver dieed
16:24	because ldm (the parent) was still running
16:25	now that ldm is a child of xinit
16:25	and exits to let xinit exit
16:25	the rc.d scripts die with it
16:25	and dont continue to run
16:25	so we cannot rely on the same mechanism
16:26	<vagrantc> sounds plausible
16:26	<warren> what is /var/cache/localapps/ for? is that used anymore?
16:26	<Gadi_eeepc> we need to run the cleanup as an ldm kill script
16:26	<warren> I had to create this in ltsp-server sometime in the past
16:26	<Gadi_eeepc> but, that doesnt address abrupt poweroffs
16:26	ie unclean logouts
16:27	kaos01 has joined #ltsp
16:27	<vagrantc> warren: i think early on in the localapps stuff it was renamed to ltsp-localapps ... to prevent namespace clashes.
16:27	<warren> Gadi_eeepc: ldm startup can see the existence of pristine files and copy them over too
16:27	<Gadi_eeepc> warren: right
16:27	only some things we cannot cleanup
16:27	<warren> I want to release RIGHT NOW
16:27	<Gadi_eeepc> like things involving ssh
16:27	<warren> I just made the biggest release ever only to discover that localapps broke
16:28	artista_frustrad has quit IRC
16:28	<Gadi_eeepc> warren: if you want release this as-is
16:28	<warren> /var/cache/localapps was never needed on the server side?
16:28	<Gadi_eeepc> warren: no
16:28	* warren wonders why he put it in ltsp-server
16:28	* Gadi_eeepc shrugs
16:28	sepski has quit IRC
16:28	<warren> ok, /var/cache/ltsp-localapps/ right?
16:28	<Gadi_eeepc> localapps requires no special server side stuff
16:28	<vagrantc> in the client
16:28	<Gadi_eeepc> right
16:29	only in client
16:29	artista_frustrad has joined #ltsp
16:29	<johnny> so.. i should be making /var/cache/ltsp-localapps in ltsp-client?
16:29	package*
16:29	<Gadi_eeepc> johnny: yes
16:29	gate_keeper_ has quit IRC
16:29	<Gadi_eeepc> warren: if you want to tag what you have now,
16:29	* johnny needs to track down why the ltsp-build-client creats /var/lib/nfs
16:29	<Gadi_eeepc> I will work on cleaning up the cleanup code
16:30	<johnny> maybe it's unnecessary..
16:30	<Gadi_eeepc> and those changes can be tested and tagged later
16:30	<warren> Gadi_eeepc: tagged and pushed
16:31	<Gadi_eeepc> ok
16:31	* Gadi_eeepc has more homework for tonight
16:31	<Gadi_eeepc> :)
16:33	nicoAMG has quit IRC
16:33	<warren> Please review all the changes between .56 and .57 for sanity
16:34	vagrantc: could you please test 5.1.57 too since you're also read-only /etc
16:35	<vagrantc> warren: can't test today, maybe tomorrow
16:35	<warren> ok
16:35	well, this can't be worse I think
16:36	epsas has joined #ltsp
16:36	<epsas> hello peoples
16:37	<vagrantc> epsas: hey!
16:37	<epsas> I am the new network administrator at an office that runs entirely on LTSP
16:37	whoa! vagrant!
16:37	<vagrantc> epsas: what distro?
16:37	<epsas> CentOs
16:37	but we are investigating other platforms
16:38	<warren> epsas: you might want to try k12linux.org
16:38	<epsas> i guess i have questions about local sound / hardware
16:38	<vagrantc> epsas: well, i'm biased with debian, of course :)
16:38	<epsas> hi warren (togami i presume :)
16:38	<warren> epsas: all that stuff works out of the box in k12linux.org
16:38	epsas: charles?
16:38	<epsas> yup
16:38	<warren> wow
16:38	epsas: where are you?
16:38	<epsas> I am in Seattle
16:39	Moved from New Orleans to a place with more work... Seattle delivered
16:39	<warren> New Orleans seems like not a great place for work
16:40	<epsas> nope, not at all
16:40	it's good here - i have a full-time job with benefits (34 paid days off a year), and two side programming gigs already
16:40	within a month of getting here - so i am happy
16:40	<warren> what kind of shop uses LTSP?
16:40	<epsas> now I have to learn LTSP =)
16:40	The downtown emergency homeless shelter
16:41	<warren> epsas: I'm about to spin a new version of k12linux.org
16:41	epsas: I could use testers of that new spin
16:41	epsas: you want 32bit or 64bit server?
16:41	<epsas> the administrative office runs entirely off of ltsp, for windows there are a couple of win4lin instances
16:41	we could do both
16:41	one of our main concerns is unifying the filesystems between the 4 different LTSP servers we have
16:41	<warren> you mean /home?
16:42	<epsas> yeah
16:42	<warren> you better run the same version of GNOME on all four LTSP servers
16:42	because it fucks up if you don't
16:42	<epsas> we also need a network filesystem to seamlessly integrate remote file shares
16:42	hmm - okay
16:43	it looks like we are on CentOs and KDE at the moment
16:43	<warren> epsas: LTSP on CentOS is very ancient
16:43	<Gadi_eeepc> warren: can you test what I just pushed?
16:43	I fixed the cleanup code
16:43	* warren looking
16:43	<Gadi_eeepc> I think
16:43	<warren> pushed where?
16:44	<Gadi_eeepc> er, upstream
16:44	:)
16:44	after it was tagged
16:44	1166
16:44	<warren> Gadi_eeepc: it only cleans up right during the next login?
16:45	<Gadi_eeepc> well, there as an I* script to cleanup the things that can be cleaned up at init of ldm
16:45	(which is only /etc/group and friends and the cups client thing
16:45	then, there is a cleanup for after logout
16:45	for the things thatt require ssh
16:45	*that
16:45	<warren> what kills localappsd now?
16:46	<Gadi_eeepc> it dies along with X
16:46	<warren> are you sure?
16:46	<Gadi_eeepc> on logout
16:46	yup
16:46	just as before
16:46	<vagrantc> i've never seen it survive when X dies.
16:46	<Gadi_eeepc> it cannot
16:46	<warren> ok, trying...
16:46	<Gadi_eeepc> it is ldm's child
16:46	ill be back in 20 mins
16:46	gotta pick up one of my kids
16:47	<warren> nod
16:47	<vagrantc> we should move ldm's init thingy to X95, so we don't have to prepend all the remainging scripts with z
16:48	X99-run-x-session, that is
16:49	<warren> well, at least most users wont notice that localapps is broken
16:49	vagrantc: just do it
16:49	<vagrantc> i am
16:49	<warren> shit
16:49	/etc/group failed again
16:50	oh crap
16:50	I forgot to add it to rwtab
16:50	since I was rushing
16:51	<vagrantc> the hurrier we go...
16:52	<warren> so might as well test gadi's cleanup
16:53	etyack has quit IRC
16:53	<warren> I don't see how this can possibly work.
16:53	but will test it anyway
16:54	<vagrantc> i'm honestly amazed localapps works at all. it's crazy.
16:54	<warren> If localappsd is killed by X dying, then we could use a similar ugly hack to what I added to screen-x-common
16:54	vagrantc: which script is sourcing these ldm-rc.d scripts?
16:54	<vagrantc> /usr/share/ldm/ldm-script
16:55	<warren> not the same script as screen-x-common or screen scripts right?
16:55	<vagrantc> no
16:55	<warren> if gadi's cleanup doesn't work (I expect it wont)
16:55	I have an idea
16:55	<vagrantc> /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/* is handled by ldm itself.
16:56	we should probably just go ahead and use trap from ltsp-localappsd
16:58	<warren> trap the kill you mean?
16:59	<vagrantc> yeah
16:59	wouldn't that be more likely to catch when ltsp-localappsd has actually died?
16:59	<warren> vagrantc: it wont be able to do the ssh part there.
17:00	<vagrantc> well, sure.
17:00	but it can handle all the other bits, at least.
17:01	<warren> yep, failed to cleanup
17:02	RobertLaptop has joined #ltsp
17:08	<warren> vagrantc: ah, I didn't copy the new scripts into my ltsp-client package
17:08	it does work
17:11	<vagrantc> heh
17:11	<Gadi_eeepc> hey, back - whatd I miss?
17:11	<vagrantc> good to know :)
17:11	* Gadi_eeepc scrolls
17:11	<warren> Gadi_eeepc: it works, although it seems fragile to me
17:11	<Gadi_eeepc> fragile how?
17:11	<warren> Gadi_eeepc: I'm reordering the cleanup lines a little...
17:12	Gadi_eeepc: I moved the ssh parts after the local cleanup
17:12	<Gadi_eeepc> okey dokey
17:12	<warren> Gadi_eeepc: aren't you racing the teardown in this script though?
17:13	<Gadi_eeepc> racing the teardown?
17:13	<warren> Gadi_eeepc: I00-localapps-cleanup what defined LOCALAPPS_CACHE?
17:13	<Gadi_eeepc> oh, did I not set that?
17:13	grr
17:14	sorry
17:14	can you grab the define for that from X01-localapps
17:14	?
17:14	I meant to copy/paste it in
17:14	<warren> install -m 0755 localapps/ldm-rc.d/X01-localapps $RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_datadir}/ldm/rc.d/
17:14	install -m 0755 localapps/ldm-rc.d/X99-zkill-localapps-menu $RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_datadir}/ldm/rc.d/
17:15	hmm, does install accept wildcards?
17:15	Gadi_eeepc: ok
17:15	<Gadi_eeepc> thx
17:17	warren: there should not be a race condition anywhere that I see
17:18	<warren> Gadi_eeepc: oh right, we don't do kill -1 anymore?
17:18	<Gadi_eeepc> right
17:18	so, everything should be executed
17:18	the only thing is if someone does ctrl-alt-backspace or turns the client off without logging out, there will be extra /tmp folders on the server from localapps
17:19	but, those should be cleaned out by the server over time
17:19	so, we should be ok
17:20	<warren> ok, see any reason not to tag?
17:21	<Gadi_eeepc> you added that LOCALAPSS_CACHE thing?
17:21	*LOCALAPPS_CACHE
17:21	:)
17:23	<warren> # Copy back passwd and group
17:23	+ LOCALAPPS_CACHE=/var/cache/ltsp-localapps
17:23	for i in passwd group; do
17:23	[ -e "${LOCALAPPS_CACHE}/${i}" ] && cp "${LOCALAPPS_CACHE}/${i}" /etc/${i}
17:23	done
17:23	<Gadi_eeepc> perfecto
17:24	if it works for you, go ahead annd tag
17:24	did vagrantc move any of the filenames?
17:24	to get rid of the "z"s
17:24	?
17:24	it may make it easier on the packagers if those name changes happen all at once
17:25	RobertLaptop has quit IRC
17:25	<warren> can you go ahead with the file renames? my brain hurts
17:25	<Gadi_eeepc> np - but I dont want to mess up the packagers
17:26	especially since I am not one
17:26	maybe I'll defer to vagrantc
17:26	:)
17:26	<warren> i'im tagginng now
17:26	gotta start hte long spin processs
17:27	ok?
17:27	<Gadi_eeepc> go for it
17:28	vvinet has quit IRC
17:29	<warren> done
17:30	<vagrantc> Gadi_eeepc: i didn't do the renames in ltsp-trunk yet, just ldm-trunk
17:31	it'll require a versioned dependency on ldm, to make sure the cleanup stuff works...
17:31	<warren> ok, not yet
17:31	dirigeant has quit IRC
17:32	<vagrantc> keeps the most backwards-compatibility that way...
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18:12	<ltsppbot> "Lns" pasted "updating chroot causes proc madness" (44 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/234
18:12	<Lns> If anyone has time to look at my function, which obviously messes my chroot up, that would be so cool. =)
18:13	(forgot to mention, in the function, when trying to umount proc, it says it's busy)
18:18	nicoAMG has joined #ltsp
18:23	vvinet has joined #ltsp
18:24	<Gadi_eeepc> Lns: depending upon what you install and what it runs post-install, something may very well make use of /proc
18:25	also, you might as well unmoount proc after the upgrade
18:25	not when updating the kernels
18:25	<Lns> Gadi_eeepc: ok.. so i'm wondering how to force the umount
18:25	without wreaking havock on my chroot that is..
18:26	<Gadi_eeepc> well, you could umount -l
18:27	<Lns> lets see when i do that and then ltsp-update-image
18:29	cool, no errors =)
18:29	thx Gadi_eeepc
18:31	<Gadi_eeepc> np
18:32	btw, using [ -n "$()" ] as a test uses less memory than (( $() ))
18:32	as long as you are looking at the return on stdout
18:32	not that you may care
18:32	:)
18:33	<Lns> not that i fully understand ;)
18:33	<Gadi_eeepc> in your if statement, you use: if (( $(.....) )); then
18:33	<Lns> thank you, i'll keep that in mind, honestly that (( $() )) thing was something i was just trying to get to work, so optimization was a secondary goal ;)
18:33	<Gadi_eeepc> what that tests is the return value of a subshell
18:34	wwhere the last command in the subshell is your command
18:34	<Lns> oh, so the [ -n "$()" ] won't launch a subshell.. ?
18:34	<Gadi_eeepc> right, that collects the command stdout in a string
18:34	and looks to see if the string is empty
18:34	<Lns> oh cool. i get it
18:35	thanks!
18:35	<Gadi_eeepc> or, you can just do:
18:35	if blah; then
18:35	without the $() entirely
18:35	which would directly evaluate the return value
18:35	so, your current way uses 2 subshells
18:35	-n "$()" uses 1 subshell
18:36	and if blah; then uses no subshells
18:36	subshells cost memory (tho, admittedly not much)
18:36	<Lns> but how do you form something (what i think is) as complex as that pipe of commands through a simple 'if' statement?
18:36	<Gadi_eeepc> and additional processes
18:37	well, if you just want the return value and dont care about stdout, then you can just do;
18:37	if sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get upgrade -s \| grep upgraded >/dev/null 2>&1; then
18:38	the return value will be the return of the last process in the pipe
18:38	in this case, the grep
18:38	<Lns> right
18:38	<Gadi_eeepc> so, if the grep for upgraded returns true, then it was upgraded
18:38	else, it was not
18:39	or there was another error along the way
18:39	:)
18:39	<Lns> hrm...well the grep returns either 0 or another number
18:39	<Gadi_eeepc> right
18:39	if will look for a zero return
18:39	for true
18:39	<Lns> oh, built into bash
18:40	<Gadi_eeepc> right
18:40	* Lns hasn't looked into that stuff yet ;)
18:40	<Gadi_eeepc> the if statement is basically:
18:40	if [ this stuff returns true ]; then
18:40	regadless of what test it is
18:40	you could do:
18:40	if true; then echo yes; fi
18:41	and it will always echo yes
18:41	<Lns> so builtin is 0 = true, 1 = false, 2+ = some crazy return value thats also not true
18:41	<Gadi_eeepc> 0 = true
18:41	!0 = false
18:41	<Lns> ah
18:42	<Gadi_eeepc> to evaluate return codes more carefully, simply run the command and check $?
18:42	<Lns> So what makes "if true" true all the time?
18:42	<Gadi_eeepc> so; if [ "$?" = 255 ]; then "The error was this"; fi
18:42	true just returns 0
18:42	ture = /bin/true
18:43	or /usr/bin/true
18:43	<Lns> oh its a command.. true - do nothing, successfully. ha!
18:43	<Gadi_eeepc> right
18:43	there's also a false
18:43	:)
18:43	* Lns loves *nix
18:43	<Lns> Can't really get more logical than that
18:44	i always thought someon's shell being /bin/false was just a placemarker for not launching a shell at all
18:44	not an actual command
18:45	<Gadi_eeepc> programmers like to call real commands and not rely on the lack of a command's existance
18:45	:)
18:45	usually
18:45	:P
18:45	<Lns> hehe
18:45	chrisinajar has joined #ltsp
18:45	<Lns> it's crazy to see the bigger picture (from my perspective anyway).. working in the shell really is almost like a programming environment in itself
18:47	MRH2 has joined #ltsp
18:47	* Gadi_eeepc goes to veg' a lil' before doing more work
18:47	<Gadi_eeepc> l8r
18:48	<MRH2> hi can anyone point me to workarounds for left handed mouse issues with 4.2
18:50	<Lns> bye Gadi_eeepc , thanks again
18:50	<MRH2> using gnome if itmakes a difference
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19:27	<Ryan52> warren, wtogami has edited the ldm-2.0.33-1.fc9,ltsp-5.1.58-1.fc9 update for Fedora 9 pending
19:27	what did you change?
19:28	<warren> Ryan52: local apps was broken
19:28	Ryan52: I should have noticed this =(
19:28	respinning the ISO's now
19:28	<Ryan52> oh.
19:28	pmatulis has quit IRC
19:33	<warren> Ryan52: http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/ltsp/k12linux/f10/stable4/
19:33	I'm verifying that these ISO's work in every way...
19:33	Ryan52: can you download quickly?
19:33	<Ryan52> k12linux-f10-i386-stable.iso 04-Feb-2009 01:22 813M
19:33	k12linux-f10-x86_64-stable.iso 04-Feb-2009 01:32 381M
19:33	why is the i386 so much bigger?
19:34	or does the x86_64 cd use a i386 chroot?
19:34	<warren> Ryan52: uploading x86_64 now
19:34	<Ryan52> oh :)
19:42	<warren> oops, wrong file names, renaming....
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19:51	<Ryan52> but it's fine that I'm still downloading at the old link, right?
19:51	cause it's almost done ;)
19:52	<warren> yeah
19:52	rename it to stable4
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19:53	* Ryan52 is at 96%
19:53	<Ryan52> I think I need faster internet.
19:53	<warren> you are downloading faster than me
20:04	* Ryan52 booting it
20:04	<Ryan52> what specifically should I test? do you have a checklist of ltsp (& friends) features that you usually test before a release?
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20:08	<kaos01> can one have two installs like say /opt/ltsp-f10 and /opt/ltsp-f7 ?
20:13	<Ryan52> warren, the email you just sent how has an error in the URL.
20:13	warren, Iceweasel can't find the server at delphi.bos.redhat.com.
20:15	<warren> shit
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20:36	<warren> Ryan52: tried it?
20:38	kaos01 has quit IRC
20:41	<Ryan52> almost there..
20:44	the floppy disks that I rely on to boot my thin client are unreliable :)
20:44	* Ryan52 is back to physical thin clients until he works out the two kvm guests thing
20:45	<warren> you can get an old laptop from freegeek?
20:46	fine thin client tester
20:46	and quick
20:47	<Ryan52> and small :). my thin client is horribly ugly looking...it's just the metal part of the case (with all of the plastic taken off), a mobo, a floppy disk drive lying on the bottom, and a power supply duck taped to the top. :p
20:48	*duct
20:51	hrm. the client says "nfsmount: error mounting /opt/ltsp/i386 on /sysroot as nfs: No such file or directory.".
20:52	* Ryan52 wonders if that's a problem with his dhcpd configs, he isn't using the dhcp server on the live image..
20:52	<Ryan52> I would, but it would break my network ... I really need to get this kvm thing figured out.
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20:58	<warren> I just tested the i386 version, both booting clients from live demo mode and after installing to hard drives.
20:58	installing x86_64 onto my usb stick now
21:09	Ryan52: brb, testing x86_64 version
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21:19	<warren> Ryan52: x86_64 seems working
21:19	Ryan52: i'm putting stable4 on k12linux.org
21:19	<Ryan52> okie doke.
21:24	<warren> Ryan52: https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/wiki/LiveServer updated page, please double check me
21:26	<Ryan52> looks right.
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22:46	<Gadi_eeepc> nubae: ping
22:46	nubae: kick your log server when you get a chance
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22:55	ltsplogbot has joined #ltsp
22:56	<nubae> bah.. logbot was killed by stupid godaddy sysadmins
23:00	test test test
23:01	<Ryan52> The #LTSP IRC Logs
23:01	2009 MSGE000
23:01	0.o
23:02	<nubae> bah not again...
23:02	<Ryan52> nubae, is it closely attached to the server it's on? if not, you can move it to my vps, where the big bad godaddy sysadmins can't hurt it :). /me doesn't mind giving you an account
23:02	<nubae> now I have to remember how I fixed that last time
23:02	<johnny> Ryan52, what vps are you using?
23:02	<nubae> it might be an idea...
23:02	<Ryan52> johnny, slicehost
23:02	<johnny> not linode?
23:02	how come?
23:03	i wonder how slicehost is doing these days
23:03	<Ryan52> johnny, they were bought by rackspace, so they have lots of moolah to do new cool things...they got a new datacenter today :)
23:04	<johnny> yet they are somewhat more expensive than linode
23:04	<Ryan52> ya.
23:04	<johnny> i'm spending $30.. and have a little less
23:04	than their $38 plan
23:05	<Ryan52> johnny, I know, but is linode good?
23:05	slicehost has been really good.
23:05	<johnny> yes
23:05	<Ryan52> only downtime was because of ddos attacks, which were resolved in 10 minutes or so.
23:05	<johnny> had my linode for a year now :)
23:06	i wonder how their admin panel compares
23:06	it doesn't say whether they host dns for ya or not
23:06	do they?
23:06	<Ryan52> slicehost does dns.
23:06	<johnny> good
23:06	do they generate zone files for ya?
23:06	<Ryan52> no.
23:06	<johnny> ones you can reuse elsewhere?
23:06	that is nice feature of linode dns manager
23:06	<Ryan52> do you have an API, tho?
23:07	<johnny> hmm.. yes, gimme link
23:07	<Ryan52> we can use active resource to do all kinds of cool stuff.
23:07	ltsplogbot has quit IRC
23:07	<johnny> to slicehost api
23:07	i'll compare it
23:07	<Ryan52> k, one sec.
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23:08	<Ryan52> johnny: http://articles.slicehost.com/2008/5/13/slicemanager-api-documentation
23:08	<nubae> ahhh thats better
23:08	<johnny> seriously? pdf?
23:08	lol
23:09	api documentation in a pdf is not a good idea
23:09	<Ryan52> hrm..."Febriary"
23:09	<nubae> lots 3 days though
23:09	hehe, yeah that was the russian coders logs2html
23:09	and its compiled C
23:10	so not much I can do... but I can try
23:10	* Ryan52 wonders if you can just edit binaries to change strings
23:11	<johnny> ok, slice's api is a bit better
23:11	but, does slicehost let you get slices for even just a few minutes?
23:11	i can't tell from the information provided
23:11	it sounds like not, but it is kind of ambiguous
23:12	<Ryan52> what do you mean for just a few minutes?
23:12	<johnny> provison the linode.. do some intensive task.. destroy it
23:13	<Ryan52> ya, you can do that.
23:13	<johnny> word
23:13	it seems that for both of these, hard disk is the most expensivep art
23:13	i'm looking for a secure backup solution
23:14	altho.. i'd prefer not to use amazon or google
23:14	<Ryan52> ya.
23:14	why not google or amazon?
23:15	if you want secure, you should be gpg encrypting it anyway ;)
23:15	<johnny> i don't trust either for a second
23:15	too big
23:16	they are so automated, there is almost zero real customer service
23:16	which is surely why they can offer it so cheap
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23:21	<warren> amazon is really expensive
23:21	<johnny> warren, any suggestions?
23:22	<warren> for what?
23:22	<johnny> i've got less than a 100gs of real data
23:22	important stuff
23:22	<warren> what is your goal?
23:22	<johnny> secure data backup
23:23	more like a virtual hard drive
23:23	so i can access my stuff anywhere
23:23	altho.. i'd rather just put my stuff
23:23	in some friendly data center
23:23	but i can't do that yet
23:23	<warren> Ryan52: many host providers don't allow any IRC of any kind because it is too often associated with DDoS attacks
23:25	<johnny> the atlanta datacenter filters 6667
23:25	for linode
23:25	the rest seem fine
23:25	<Ryan52> slicehost lets us do whatever we want to, as long as we don't break the law.
23:27	<warren> yeah, I heard good things about slicehost.
23:30	<johnny> warren, but all vps charge too much for disk space
23:30	<warren> is it really too much?
23:30	johnny: why do you need 100GB?
23:30	johnny: Google is launching their own online drive service soon
23:30	<johnny> sure.. but i do not want to use google services
23:31	too automated.. no real customer service
23:31	<warren> johnny: just encrypt what you put there.
23:31	oh
23:31	yeah, but they dont tend to screw things up.
23:31	<johnny> yeah.. for the current gtalk issues
23:31	except for*
23:31	and last year when they lost a bunch of people's mail
23:31	not permanently
23:31	but still..
23:32	google's support stuff is like a blackhole sometimes
23:32	plus they are generally too big
23:32	i don't really need to support something like that
23:32	and their standards support seems kinda weak in general..
23:33	like imap
23:33	and xmpp
23:34	google is no saint
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23:41	<nubae> and we have liftoff
23:42	proper weekday names and month names...
23:44	yeah go daddy doesnt alllow irc of any kind, let alone bots...
23:44	but the are too dumb to stop people using other ports... go figure..
23:48	<johnny> no l7 protocol filters
23:49	they are somewhat expensive to ru
23:49	run*
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