IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 12 December 2015 (all times are UTC)
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| 07:16 | * gehidore pokes at work_alkisg | |
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| 09:11 | work_alkisg is now known as alkisg | |
| 09:11 | <alkisg> gehidore: hello
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| 09:12 | Any btrfs volume will do, there's no need to use an ltsp image
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| 09:12 | Justmkfs.btrfs and mkdir /usr somewhere
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| 09:12 | Or use your own /, /home, whatever you already have as btrfs
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| 09:41 | Nice, I was not able to reproduce it on ubuntu 14.04!
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| 09:41 | If it's specific to 16.04, no problem, it can be solved there...
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| 13:28 | <work_alkisg> Heh. It turns out it's indeed something about the image...
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| 13:29 | Maybe the encasulated MBR
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| 13:45 | <alkisg> Hi huafu
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| 13:48 | !vnc-dide
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| 13:48 | <ltsp`> vnc-dide: To share your screen with me, run this: sudo apt-get --yes install x11vnc; x11vnc -connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr - this is a reverse connection, it doesn't need port forwarding etc.
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| 13:50 | <huafu> alekisg: thanks!
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| 13:50 | <quinox> j
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| 13:52 | <alkisg> huafu: so, the problem is that qemu-arm-static is not copied
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| 13:53 | <alkisg> It's automatically copied by ltsp normally
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| 13:53 | Ah, do another vnc so that I check your ltsp version
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| 13:53 | <huafu> alkisg: you rocks! but you should put this in the wiki page
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| 13:53 | <alkisg> huafu: you followed a step wrong
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| 13:53 | I don't know which one
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| 13:54 | The copy won't persist if you run ltsp-build-client, it will be deleted, it's not a solution
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| 13:54 | Run another vnc so that I check what you did wrong
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| 14:02 | huafu: ping me when it stops
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| 14:03 | <huafu> alkisg, you rocks, it passed now! So I have to figure out which of my extra option make it fail
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| 14:03 | <alkisg> I just copied the conf file and the command from the wiki page :) I don't know what part you did wrong...
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| 14:03 | OK, glad to help, go on!
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| 14:03 | <huafu> sorry mate!
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| 14:03 | thanks a lot!
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| 15:45 | <huafu> work_alkisg, does the firmware version matters in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/RaspberryPi#Preparing_the_folder_for_the_client_SD_cards
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| 15:45 | there you are using 4.1.10, but in the chroot env it is installing 4.2.xxx - should I install corresponding version in the chroot env?
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| 16:36 | work_alkisg is now known as alkisg | |
| 16:37 | <alkisg> huafu: in that wiki page I don't mention to install the firmware in the chroot anywhere
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| 16:37 | It's needed for the bootloader, i.e. in the sd card, not in the chroot
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| 16:37 | You can download 4.2 I believe, yes
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| 16:38 | For pi-specific questions, you should be asking in #raspberrypi, for ltsp-specific questions, here. I.e. I don't know all the details about Pis, I just made sure the ltsp side works.
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| 16:38 | <huafu> alkisg, yes I know, but I meant, the build-client does install linux-image-4.2.10-1014... anyway, I solved my issue, thanks again
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| 16:41 | <alkisg> If needed, you can ping me to put 4.3 in the ppa: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-raspi2/4.3.0-1006.6
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| 16:42 | In 4.5 I've read that finally 3d will work for rpi2
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| 16:49 | https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/raspberrypi2-firmware ==> no other firmware version yet
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| 17:00 | <huafu> wow 3d! nice
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| 17:01 | well I would not have use of it... or would this improve rendering under the mate desktop with compiz?
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| 17:01 | <alkisg> If they do manage to have 3d and 2d and video acceleration with the GPU, then I'll start liking rpi2 :)
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| 17:01 | 2d gets accelerated by using the gallium/3d code
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| 17:02 | Also note that gnome-flashback is a nice alternative to mate, which is much closer to upstream gnome
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| 17:03 | <huafu> why would one prefer flashback over mate?
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| 17:03 | sorry, might be a stupid question, but I am looking for good balance between light software and user friendiness ;-)
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| 17:03 | <alkisg> Gnome is developed by paid developers
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| 17:04 | Mate is developed by hobbyists that continue the old work of gnome developers
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| 17:04 | I prefer gnome to mate, and flashback is a thin 2d layer over gnome
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| 17:05 | I would be using gnome if all my clients supported 3d... so now that I need 2d, I'm using gnome-flashback
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| 17:05 | <huafu> I'll have to do some tests and choose the less ressource consuming
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| 17:06 | <alkisg> It's about the same, and with ltsp you can very easily cut it down by disabling a lot of services, system or session wide
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| 17:06 | <huafu> yeah, I also need to do some research about improving ltsp clients
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| 17:07 | see everything I can disable, especially the animations lol. but first, create some fat clients and test them (what I am doing now)
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| 17:08 | <alkisg> what animations? and why would you disable them in fat clients?
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| 17:09 | I didn't ever have to disable anything in gnome-flashback... except of course services like ubuntuone, zeitgeist etc
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| 17:10 | <huafu> disable animations in THIN clients, especially the one with the top and bottom bars at the session opening
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| 17:10 | sounds like.... I am going to test gnome-flashback :D
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| 17:10 | <alkisg> I don't see any animation in the top and bottom panel in gnome-flashback
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| 17:11 | <huafu> in mate ;-)
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| 17:11 | <alkisg> Thin clients need to get replaced by fat clients :D
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| 17:12 | <huafu> well I am running on very old computers, last time I tried fat clients, they were taking forever to boot, and then they were extremely slow
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| 17:12 | so I am trying again, hoping that I did a mistake last time, since now I know a bit more about how all this work
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| 17:13 | <alkisg> client ram/cpu?
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| 17:13 | and server ram/cpu?
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| 17:13 | and network, gigabit or not?
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| 17:13 | <alkisg> and how many clients?
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| 17:16 | <huafu> server: 4Gb (soon 8), 3.10GHz (dual core)
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| 17:17 | clients: for now 2 RPi2, 1 P4 laptop with about 1Gb RAM, 2 HP Compaq IDK the CPU, but doesn't support PAE and I think P2 or P3
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| 17:18 | hmmmm... it says P4 on the box outside but I do not believe it :D
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| 17:19 | * alkisg hasn't seen a p4 without pae | |
| 17:20 | <alkisg> I think they do exist though
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| 17:20 | The P4's are usually better as fat clients, with 1 gb ram
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| 17:20 | <huafu> alkisg, yeah that is why I do not believe what the sticker on the box says :D
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| 17:20 | <alkisg> p2 and p3 are better as thins
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| 17:20 | rpi2... it depends... it's also armhf and some programs are not working well there or are not available, so sometimes it's better to use them as thins
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| 17:21 | <huafu> my ethernet card for ltsp is 1Gb, the one for internet is 100Mb but I think this is not important since my internet connection is under 100 lol
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| 17:21 | <alkisg> but if the network is only 100mbps, or the server is slow, it might be worth it to use them as fats
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| 17:21 | check also your lan with epoptes
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| 17:21 | !epoptes
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| 17:21 | <ltsp`> epoptes: Epoptes is a computer lab administration and monitoring tool. It works on Ubuntu and Debian based labs with LTSP or non-LTSP servers, thin and fat clients, standalone workstations, NX clients etc. More info: http://www.epoptes.org
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| 17:21 | <alkisg> !lan-benchmark
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| 17:21 | <ltsp`> lan-benchmark: If you have a mixed-speed network (gigabit server<=>switch connection, and 100 Mbits/sec clients<=>switch connections), then you might suffer from the !flow-control issue. To benchmark your LAN with epoptes, see http://www.epoptes.org/documentation/lan-benchmark
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| 17:21 | <huafu> the network is held by a switch on which the server and all clients are plugged
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| 17:22 | ok, benchmarking now, thanks for the tip!
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| 17:23 | * alkisg waves, later... | |
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| 17:34 | <gehidore> work_alkisg: for proper comparison i wantedto use the same variables which included the image, seems you've worked it out though
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| 17:38 | <huafu> work_alkisg, can't run the benchmark, it is telling me that I need to run epoptes-client on the client with root privilege, but when I run it it just does nothing and exit directly
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| 17:47 | <huafu> arg, forget me I guess it's because I did not install epoptes-client in the chroot... so it needs to run for each user on the server and as root on the thin clients?
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| 17:50 | rebooting (adding 4Gb of RAM to server while no client connected :)
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| 17:57 | <huafu> ok back
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| 18:07 | work_alkisg, ok now I can run the benchmark but at the end it stays on processing data forever
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| 18:51 | <huafu> work_alkisg, found the issue, the clients needs iperf too
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| 18:55 | work_alkisg, so yeah, the benchmark clearly shows that the server nic is used only at 100Mbps, and not the expect 1G
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| 18:56 | tho I disabled flow control with the help of your script (my NIC uses r8169 which doesn't have any option to disable flow control thru the module)
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| 18:58 | maybe the switch?
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| 19:01 | <huafu> OMG, my switch is a 100 one :(
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| 20:00 | <alkisg> gehidore: nah, I haven't figured it out; i just discovered that it happens on some images but not on all of them
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| 20:00 | <alkisg> huafu: then try to make more of your clients fat :)
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| 20:01 | <huafu> alexxtasi, wait, slow net would have better perf with fat clients?
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| 20:01 | when it launch an app it takes forever, isn
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| 20:01 | ...isn't it because it is downloading it from nbd?
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| 20:01 | <alkisg> alexxtasi is a different person :)
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| 20:02 | <huafu> ooops, alexxtasi sorry, yup just saw that :/
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| 20:02 | <alkisg> When a fat client launches firefox, it needs to download e.g. 50 mb from the server
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| 20:03 | That takes a lot of seconds, ok
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| 20:03 | But then it can watch youtube etc at just 1 mbps
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| 20:03 | <alexxtasi> I am someone else ;-)
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| 20:03 | <huafu> alexxtasi, yes sorry, just used completion and didn't check what it completed with ;-)
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| 20:03 | <alkisg> While on thins, launching firefox would need only a few mbps, and then watching videos would need 2.5 gbps per client
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| 20:04 | so yup fats behave better on 100 mbps network
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| 20:04 | You can also use local cache
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| 20:04 | !local-boot
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| 20:04 | <ltsp`> local-boot: If you want LTSP fat clients on a low-speed network, you can put i386.img on e.g. C:\Boot\LTSP\i386.img and use this command line in pxelinux.cfg: APPEND ro initrd=ltsp/i386/initrd.img init=/sbin/init-ltsp root=/dev/sda1 rootflags=ro loop=/Boot/LTSP/i386.img; IPAPPEND 3
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| 20:04 | <huafu> alkisg, ok but last time I tried, it was making the client almost unusable, at the point I did not even wait for it to open firefox totally lol
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| 20:04 | <alkisg> For p4 with 1 gb ram?
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| 20:05 | Or for p2 with 256 mb ram?
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| 20:05 | If the client starts to use swap, then don't use it as fat
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| 20:05 | <huafu> p4 which is actually 1.5Gb ram!
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| 20:05 | <alkisg> p4 should be able to launch firefox in under 20 seconds
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| 20:05 | If it doesn't, you did something wrong
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| 20:05 | <huafu> ok so I did something wrong :D
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| 20:06 | <gehidore> mine did in testing on 64bit p4 over gigabit
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| 20:07 | <huafu> alkisg, FYI I fixed my issue with your soft (epoptes) and so now I can see the machines' hw
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| 20:07 | <alkisg> What issue, epoptes not being installed in the chroot?
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| 20:07 | <huafu> Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz - RAM 1500 MB
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| 20:07 | <alkisg> You need to read the installation pages more carefully :D
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| 20:08 | <huafu> alkisg, well I don't know how I missed that but yeah, I basically started LTSP 3 days ago, heard about it but that's all until 3 days ago when I began to hack around lol
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| 20:09 | <alkisg> You're very good at it
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| 20:09 | <huafu> well, aparently not so good :p
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| 20:09 | <alkisg> I'm just saying that those 2 issues you mentioned were already in the installation pages, raspberry + epoptes.org/installation
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| 20:10 | <huafu> yup, I guess I am trying to do too much at the same time, totally missed the epoptes one
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| 20:10 | btw, what means epoptes in greek?
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| 20:10 | arg, I'll ask google sorry
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| 20:11 | <alkisg> overseer
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| 20:11 | <huafu> haha, google detects it is greek, but translates with the same word in english or french
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| 20:11 | ok makes sense, thanks ;-)
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| 20:12 | <alkisg> (mentioned in epoptes.org :))
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| 20:12 | (we even have an mp3 for how to pronounce it :D)
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| 20:14 | <huafu> haha
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| 20:14 | ok so I am going to make a fat client again :D
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| 20:18 | <alkisg> !ltsp-pnp
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| 20:18 | <ltsp`> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 20:20 | <huafu> alkisg, yup I tried to follow that 3 times and none of the clients where booting totally
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| 20:21 | it's at that point actually that I realized my P4 were not handling PAE :/
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| 20:21 | <alkisg> ...ah I forgot that you always hit issues while following my wiki pages :P :D
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| 20:21 | Which p4 is that?
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| 20:21 | All p4 here do support pae
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| 20:21 | <huafu> alkisg, didn't meant that at all, and your wiki pages are very useful!
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| 20:22 | <alkisg> I've tried with P4 @ 1.7, 2.4, 2.8, 3.0 etc
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| 20:22 | <huafu> alkisg, well, IDK, but it was showing a message like "cannot boot, your cpu doesn't have PAE, try to set forcepae option"
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| 20:23 | <alkisg> It's not a pentium M, is it?
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| 20:23 | <huafu> and with forcepae it continues but then some other errors or just hang forever
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| 20:23 | <alkisg> You can install 12.04 with the generic kernel
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| 20:23 | <huafu> in epoptes it says Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz
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| 20:23 | <alkisg> Those support non-pae
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| 20:24 | right click -> open terminal => root, locally
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| 20:24 | less /proc/cpuinfo
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| 20:24 | Check the flags there for pae etc
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| 20:24 | # grep pae /proc/cpuinfo
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| 20:24 | flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae...
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| 20:25 | <huafu> OMG, there is PAE there
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| 20:25 | <alkisg> How did it boot now if it doesn't support pae? Which distro/version/kernel is in the chroot?
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| 20:25 | <huafu> yeah it is also what I asked myself
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| 20:25 | <alkisg> uname -a in the client
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| 20:26 | ...or uname -r
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| 20:26 | <huafu> Linux ltsp19 3.13.0-71-generic #114-Ubuntu SMP Tue Dec 1 02:35:20 UTC 2015 i686 i686 i686 GNU/Linux
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| 20:26 | but it does work now as thin
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| 20:26 | <alkisg> Until the clients reach LDM, the login screen, it's the same as thin or as fat
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| 20:26 | The difference is after login
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| 20:26 | <huafu> I might have done quite a mess with fat client, I keep reading about fat clients because I don't get why it has not worked before
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| 20:27 | <alkisg> So it's not related to the kernel at all
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| 20:27 | <huafu> ok, lemme build a fat client
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| 20:51 | <huafu> /msg NickServ identify coolinux
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| 20:51 | ok so I have to change my pass now :p
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| 20:56 | <huafu_> OMG, nice that I used a shit password :p
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| 21:32 | <huafu_> work_alkisg, ok so now it does boot and fast
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| 21:32 | I land on the ldm login
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| 21:33 | but then when I try to login it show the spinner cursor for some seconds and finally restart x (well the screen becomes black with the console cursor on top left and then it goes back on the login screen
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| 21:33 | will look on how to read logs
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| 21:58 | <huafu> work_alkisg, thanks again for all the help. I am going to bed now, too tired and so unproductive at that point...
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