IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 22 May 2011 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:13 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg: I just installed DaGeek's LTSP RPM, rebuilt the client chroot on Fedora 14, apparently that fixed the intel display driver issue
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| 02:13 | <alkisg> ? it was an ltsp issue, not an issue with the display driver?
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| 02:14 | <Hyperbyte> Well, the client chroot was Fedora 13
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| 02:14 | <alkisg> Ah, ok
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| 02:14 | <Hyperbyte> I never rebuilt it after upgrading to Fedora 14, because that required lots of hacking.
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| 02:14 | Anyway, we can safely conclude that official LTSP terminals are incompatible with Fedora 13 I think.
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| 02:15 | * alkisg thinks intel graphics cards need specific kernel versions to work without problems :P | |
| 02:15 | <alkisg> "official ltsp terminals" you mean diskless workstations?
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| 02:15 | * Hyperbyte thinks intel graphics cards need a swift kick in the butt | |
| 02:15 | <Hyperbyte> :)
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| 02:15 | I mean that, yes.
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| 02:16 | <alkisg> I'm not sure if they're called "official" or not, but maybe you can mail that company support line
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| 02:16 | <Hyperbyte> More specifically the LTSP Term 1720... yeah, I will.
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| 02:17 | I already had some contact with Alex on friday, about how I ran into problems with Fedora 13... he said I should mail him, and then he'll investigate... but I said I'd try upgrade first, see what happens...
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| 02:17 | So...
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| 02:17 | <alkisg> In their site I see fedora 11+12 supported
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| 02:18 | Maybe they don't support fedora 13 (and it would make sense if it's not supported in fedora itself :))
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| 02:18 | <Hyperbyte> Well... you know...
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| 02:19 | If the intel driver in Fedora 13 doesn't work properly in some cases, I think it's more than likely that the F11 and F12 has the same problem
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| 02:20 | I think it just wasn't noticed, because the problems started showing with OpenOffice 3... as it uses hardware accellerated anti aliasing, while previous versions used software rendering (I believe)
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| 02:20 | Oh well
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| 02:20 | At least the problem is solved quickly, which means I can go back home to enjoy my weekend. :)
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| 04:10 | <Hyperbyte> mmm... I was speaking too soon... I now have a problem where, after all services get started, and after /usr/share/ltsp/screen_session gets launched, it takes a minute or two before LDM appears
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| 04:12 | Process list: http://local.recreatie-zorg.nl/jan/ltsp-ldmfreeze-psauxw.txt
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| 04:57 | <Hyperbyte> Fixed it by putting SCREEN_01=ldm in lts.conf... I thought it'd work with the defaults, but then it only launched LDM when I switched to screen 7 manually
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| 05:02 | <Stammi> Hey guys, I have a question: I have the task to configure the complete school-network with over 1.700 pupils. For sure, I will use LTSP, but I'm a little bit confused with the thin-clients. If I understand it correct, the thin-clients will boot over lan. But our thin-clients have also a really small linux on it. How I must configure the thin-clients, that they will interact with the LTSP-server?
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| 05:03 | I will use Edubuntu. :)
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| 05:09 | Okay, I read in the Manual: "LTSP, on the other hand, requires no client-side software.". So I think I will ignore the minimal OS on the thin-clients and will boot via PXE. (:
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| 05:17 | <Stammi> We have ~100 thin-clients, so I planned to use 4x terminal-servers. How I realize this good? Should I only configure all terminal-server itself and tell e.g. thin-clients 1-20 to use terminal-server 1, thin-clients 21-40 terminal-server 2 etc.? Or is there any way to connect the terminal-servers? I hope you understand my horrible english. :)
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| 06:01 | <jo5hua> I have an old PC booting from my main desktop over cabled LAN. (LTSP client <-cabled-> Desktop/LTSP server <--wireless-> Internet)Everything works fine until I try to connect to the internet using the LTSP client, when my wireless connection on the desktop/server seems to completely die
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| 06:05 | Sorry, scratch that - it's working now. Hopefully just a result of my dodgy old hardware :)
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| 06:17 | <Stammi> guys, you can answer me, even if I leave now. I will read the logs on http://www.nubae.com/logs/ltsp20110522_pg1.html :) see ya
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| 06:40 | <Hyperbyte> Stammi: if you configure the thin clients to boot from network ROM, rather than local ROM or harddisk, it'll fetch a DHCP lease on startup
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| 06:41 | <Hyperbyte> The DHCP lease should point it to a TFTP server that contains a kernel and boot instructions (comes with LTSP)
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| 06:42 | The kernel then mounts the image client software from the LTSP server and boots all the way to the login manager
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| 06:43 | That's why it doesn't require any software from the client, other than the ability to boot via network
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| 06:44 | Some clients (HP ones, for example) come with a minimal ROM themselves, to boot from if all else fails... this won't be used or even useful for LTSP.
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| 07:26 | <Hyperbyte> Vagrant! :-)
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| 07:27 | * vagrantc waves | |
| 07:27 | <Hyperbyte> Herrrooo. :D
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| 08:10 | <vagrantc> anyone running ubuntu 10.10 or 11.04 ... can you tell me if the LDM keyboard shortcuts work for you?
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| 08:10 | i.e. ALT-p to bring up the preferences menu
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| 08:10 | can't get it to work on debian
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| 08:11 | ever since ldm 2.2.x
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| 08:41 | <Stammi> okay, thank you Hyperbyte. :)
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| 08:52 | <Hyperbyte> You're welcome. :)
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| 09:38 | <Stammi> Which distro for a storage-server can you recommend me? :)
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| 09:40 | <Hyperbyte> Storage server? Like, NFS?
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| 09:41 | <Stammi> I want 4x Terminal-Server and 1x Storage-Server, where the users are located (with LDAP) and the /home/-directory...
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| 09:41 | <Hyperbyte> I don't think distro matters much...
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| 09:41 | <Egyptian[Laptop]> Stammi: you do realise that the nfs server must be up before anyone logs on? and you prolly want to look at autofs too
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| 09:42 | <Hyperbyte> Stammi, I don't think NFS is much different from distro to distro... neither is LDAP I think.
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| 09:43 | <Stammi> okay, thanks. Autofs looks good, but I can also write it in the fstab, or?
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| 09:45 | <Hyperbyte> Sure
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| 09:45 | <Stammi> Goood. (:
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| 09:46 | It's my first big network which I'm configuring and I will be good prepared. (: Thank you very much for your help. :)
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| 09:46 | <Hyperbyte> Think about if you wanna mount NFS on the client or on the server
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| 09:46 | If you wanna mount it on the client, it takes some hacking I think, but should save some writebacks
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| 09:47 | On the other hand, if people hardly use their homes directories, apart from little config files, it shouldn't matter much.
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| 09:47 | <Stammi> I think I will mount it on the server... sounds easier. :D
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| 09:48 | <Hyperbyte> How many people will there be using LTSP?
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| 09:48 | <Stammi> We have
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| 09:48 | We have ~100 thin-clients
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| 09:49 | <Hyperbyte> What kind of servers?
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| 09:49 | <Stammi> On hard times all thin-clients will be active.
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| 09:49 | Powerful servers :D
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| 09:49 | <Hyperbyte> Tell me. :D
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| 09:50 | <alkisg> | |
| 09:50 | For localapps and/or fat clients, there's the NFS_HOME lts.conf variable for that
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| 09:50 | <Stammi> I don't know the specific hardware... it's must be bought in a few weeks :P
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| 09:50 | <Hyperbyte> Stammi, be sure you get a multi-core processor, or multiple processors.
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| 09:50 | <Stammi> yep.
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| 09:50 | <Hyperbyte> AMD has six-core Phenoms out.. these kind of things rock for multi-user servers
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| 09:51 | <Stammi> I will think about it. I have a big budged from the school. :)
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| 09:51 | <alkisg> How much ram do your clients have?
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| 09:53 | <Stammi> 128MB I think
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| 09:53 | We have LISCON thin-clients
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| 09:54 | <alkisg> You might want to spend some money in upgrading their ram, if possible
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| 09:54 | <Stammi> okay
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| 09:54 | I'll write it down.
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| 09:54 | <vagrantc> what kind of processor in the thin-clients?
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| 09:54 | <Stammi> sorry, I don't know... In the next days I will check it out.
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| 09:55 | <Hyperbyte> Yeah, there was someone in here recently who had 128mb thin clients... it's not really enough I think... they go about 80mb into the swap
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| 09:55 | <Stammi> and maybe is one storage-server too little?
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| 09:55 | that the harddrive is too slow?
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| 09:55 | <Hyperbyte> Stammi, all depends on how much your users are going to read/write
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| 09:56 | <Stammi> the most only open firefox :P
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| 09:56 | <alkisg> With 64-200 RAM on the clients LTSP works, but firefox + openoffice will be slow because of network swapping. With >= 256 MB it's much better, and with >= 512 RAM you can start using localapps/fat clients
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| 09:56 | <Stammi> okaay, thanks...
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| 09:57 | <Hyperbyte> Stammi, well, Firefox isn't a lot, but it does cache on disk... so it does write data with every webpage it visits I believe
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| 09:57 | <Stammi> I will turn the cache off, because I will use a proxy that cache it...
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| 09:57 | but with two storage-servers it will be a lot harder, eh?
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| 09:58 | <Hyperbyte> Which could be a lot of writes if all 100 visit a webpage at the same time. On the other hand, if you use 10.000 RPM SATA harddisks, especially if you mirror them in RAID, it should be more than enough to handle all kinds of reading writings from clients
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| 09:58 | <Stammi> okay, that sounds good
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| 09:59 | <Hyperbyte> You know, asks yourself these questions.... Do users ever use big files? Do they ever write big files? (big being over 100 megabyte)... and do they ever do that all at once? And does it matter much if they have to wait 5 seconds before a file is saved?
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| 10:00 | I think a storage server for 100 users who use Firefox is peanuts...
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| 10:01 | <Stammi> from this 100 users only ~5 users will save files, but max. size are only 5-10MB
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| 10:01 | so one storage server should be enough...
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| 10:01 | the most users of our school are happy if they can navigate the internet with firefox :D
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| 10:01 | <Hyperbyte> Well, let's say they all save a big file at the same time (unlikely), that'd be 50 MB write at the same time
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| 10:02 | Which would take 1, 2 seconds at most on the cheaper harddisks
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| 10:02 | <Stammi> yeah thats okay...
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| 10:02 | <Hyperbyte> So I'd spend my money on getting a RAID mirror for redundancy, rather than getting fast harddisks
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| 10:02 | <Stammi> only in the computer science the write-rate will be higher...
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| 10:03 | thank you very much Hyperbyte. (:
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| 10:04 | <Hyperbyte> Hey you're welcome. =)
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| 10:09 | <Stammi> sqrt(-1) will sleep about all these things and will start the project in a few weeks. :) have a nice evening and see you! :)
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| 10:48 | * alkisg just booted LTSP with kexec using http://netbootcd.tuxfamily.org So that netboot cd can be used instead of gPXE for more difficult cases (pcmcia nics, wireless nics, or cards that gPXE doesn't support etc) | |
| 10:50 | <alkisg> Steps: boot with the netboot cd, ignore the embedded menus, go to a command prompt
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| 10:50 | tftp -g -r /ltsp/i386/vmlinuz
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| 10:50 | tftp -g -r /ltsp/i386/initrd.img
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| 10:50 | sudo kexec -l vmlinuz --append="ro initrd=initrd.img nbd_proxy=false nocompcache nbdroot=server:2000" --initrd=initrd.img
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| 10:50 | sudo kexec -e
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| 10:51 | (of course those can be scripted inside the CD)
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| 10:54 | <vagrantc> alkisg: cool!
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| 10:54 | alkisg: i have some hooks for kexec to integrate into initramfs-tools ...
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| 10:55 | http://people.debian.org/~vagrant/efika/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-bottom/kexec
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| 10:55 | <stgraber> oh, you also have an efika mx board ?
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| 10:55 | <vagrantc> so you can install the kernel+initrd to local media or usb stick or whatever, boot from that, and then it runs the updated kernel
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| 10:56 | stgraber: yeah
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| 10:56 | <stgraber> I have pretty much the same scripts somewhere around here :) They sent me one to see how we could get ltsp working on it
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| 10:56 | <vagrantc> stgraber: well, the board is mostly surrounded by a shiny plastic case, but i presume there's a board inside
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| 10:57 | stgraber: it's not a great option because the ethernet is implemented on a USB bus ...
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| 10:57 | <stgraber> yeah, I also have the smarttop one (shiny black box)
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| 10:57 | <vagrantc> but yeah, i got it to test LTSP ... instead i've put more work into testing the armhf port stuff
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| 10:57 | <stgraber> well, most ARM hardware has everything on the USB bus :( hopefully that'll change soon
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| 10:58 | <vagrantc> network booting the kernel/initrd aside, i had it booting LTSP without too much work
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| 10:59 | <stgraber> yeah, we used one of them at Revolution Linux as our conference room thin client
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| 10:59 | the LTSP chroot worked fine on it
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| 11:00 | <vagrantc> i first tested it on a huge TV screen (it was the only HDMI i had access to) ... seeing the LDM login in some absurdly high resolution was pretty funny
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| 11:01 | stgraber: do the ALT- keyboard shortcuts work in LDM for you for ldm 2.2.x?
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| 11:02 | <vagrantc> that seems to be the most notable regression i've found
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| 11:11 | <stgraber> I wouldn't be surprised if that doesn't work... I don't have a LTSP setup around to check but I'll add that to my list (along with fixing LDM_SESSION for good)
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| 11:13 | <vagrantc> fixing LDM_SESSION?
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| 11:13 | <stgraber> yeah, there's a bug that esentially ignores LDM_SESSION if it's set in lts.conf
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| 11:13 | <vagrantc> oh
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| 11:13 | * vagrantc wonders when that broke | |
| 11:14 | <stgraber> I pushed a fix to ldm-trunk that was supposed to fix it but apparently that didn't (highvoltage tried it a few days ago)
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| 11:14 | my fix was rev 1379 but apparently that wasn't enough
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| 11:14 | (hmm, actually it probably was mgariepy who tried it, not highvoltage :))
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| 11:19 | <highvoltage> I was getting a bit worried because I did test that and it didn't work, but I didn't tell anyone about it :)
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| 11:19 | (only confirmed it after seeing someone complaining about it)
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| 14:45 | <dubkat> am i safe in assuming that while logged into a thin client, i can run synaptic and install new software? or do i need to ssh@localhost and do it or how the hell does that work exactly?
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| 15:38 | <highvoltage> yep, you could do that
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| 15:39 | since you're logged into a session on the server, you'll just be installing it there
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| 16:05 | <dubkat> ok. was just making sure
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| 16:05 | i do have one thing that is baffling the hell out of me
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| 16:05 | i'm using 11.04
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| 16:05 | isc-dhcp-server (probably the most important service on the network) refuses to start automaticly
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| 16:06 | but it works fine if i start it by had (while physcially at the server)
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| 16:06 | ive tried putting /etc/init.d/isc-dhcp-server start in the interface script, that didnt work
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| 16:06 | i put it in /etc/rc.local
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| 16:06 | that doest work
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| 16:06 | but it works just ducky if i do "/etc/init.d/isc-dhcp-server start"
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| 00:00 | --- Mon May 23 2011 | |