IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 2 November 2018 (all times are UTC)
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| 10:10 | <nr0> hey, someone can me help please with i386 lubuntu 18.04?
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| 10:22 | <nr0> on client machine it hangs in operation Set the console keyboard layout ....... then block nbd0: connection time out
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| 10:22 | 16.04 works vell...
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| 10:24 | <alkisg> Hi nr0
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| 10:24 | <nr0> hey alkisg
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| 10:24 | <alkisg> Can you upload a screenshot of the client screen when it does that?
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| 10:25 | <nr0> yep. 30 sec
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| 10:26 | https://ibb.co/nqE4A0
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| 10:26 | <alkisg> nr0: what's the output of this command on the server? sudo ltsp-info | nc termbin.com 9999
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| 10:27 | <nr0> http://termbin.com/89ti
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| 10:28 | <alkisg> nr0: I think the problem is that you're not using the greek schools ppa inside the chroot
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| 10:28 | So you have old ltsp-client versions
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| 10:28 | !install
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| 10:28 | <ltsp> install: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu for Ubuntu, or http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation for other distributions
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| 10:29 | <alkisg> The link there mentions about adding the ppa...
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| 10:30 | <nr0> thank you. i've did it with instruction. how to force use of greek school ppa? it's already added before ltsp server installation
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| 10:31 | i see that instruction and make install dealing with it
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| 10:32 | <alkisg> The instructions had this line:
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| 10:32 | ltsp-build-client --purge-chroot --mount-package-cache --extra-mirror 'http://ppa.launchpad.net/ts.sch.gr/ppa/ubuntu bionic main' \ --apt-keys '/etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/ts_sch_gr_ubuntu_ppa.gpg' --late-packages epoptes-client
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| 10:32 | This puts the ppa in the chroot
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| 10:32 | Now to add it afterwards, you could try:
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| 10:32 | sudo ltsp-chroot add-apt-repository ppa:ts.sch.gr
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| 10:33 | then sudo ltsp-chroot apt update, apt full-upgrade, ltsp-update-image etc
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| 10:34 | <nr0> aah i see. i've not added ppa in chroot. my fault. it was not transparent for me. thank you
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| 10:36 | <alkisg> np
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| 10:42 | <nr0> yep it's working
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| 10:43 | could you add to wiki that adding ppa nessessary exactly in chroot env?
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| 10:44 | <alkisg> nr0: it's already in the wiki, the instructions have the line i pasted
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| 10:44 | nr0: you didn't follow the instructions with the --extra-mirror and all
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| 12:34 | <enaut[m]> Hey guys, I noticed there is an incredible amount of spam in the wiki... I think this problem should be dealt with... Maybe make account creation moderated?
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| 12:37 | Or well it could be said that with 60.000 active users and 100.000 pages ltsps documentation is quite extensive.
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| 13:04 | <mwalters> I wonder what one of those automated project climate report things would say now
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| 13:04 | ;)
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| 13:05 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: ^ ?
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| 13:06 | Maybe we could only manually create new accounts... it's not like there are many who want to write documentation
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| 13:06 | But that server is Ubuntu 8.04... it should have been updated years ago...
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| 13:07 | <mwalters> lol
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| 13:12 | <highvoltage> OO
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| 13:22 | stilyan has joined IRC (stilyan!6dc781db@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.199.129.219) | |
| 13:22 | <stilyan> hi
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| 13:22 | having problem with amd64 ltsp client boot
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| 13:23 | ltsp server was ubuntu 14 and release upgrade to 18
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| 13:23 | <enaut[m]> alkisg: 8.4 - Wow that's impressive!
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| 13:23 | <stilyan> it had existing i386 setup that still works
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| 13:23 | i want to switch to amd64, built an image and everything
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| 13:24 | but when I boot at some point I'm slapped with block nbd0: connection timed out
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| 13:24 | from initramfs I'm able to get response from nbd-client {ltsp server ip} -N /opt/ltsp/{architecture} /dev/nbd0
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| 13:25 | <enaut[m]> Are you sure your clients support 64 bit?
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| 13:25 | <stilyan> yes
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| 13:25 | i think it's /etc/ltsp/nbd-server.allow
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| 13:25 | i dont have this file
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| 13:25 | but i386 boots fine without it
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| 13:26 | chroot and image was made in ubuntu14 .. so the issue I experience now may be due to the release upgrade
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| 13:26 | i tried creating /etc/ltsp/nbd-server.allow and adding the ip for client i use for tests
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| 13:27 | <enaut[m]> I read that different versions of Ubuntu in client and server do not mix well are both of them up to date?
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| 13:27 | <stilyan> then getting message repeated 2 times: [ client address does not match 2/10: address family mismatch (IPv4 vs IPv6?)]
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| 13:28 | client 3.16.2 , 1:3.16.2-1ubuntu0.1
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| 13:28 | pardon, this is server
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| 13:28 | and client of amd64 chroot is 1:3.16.2-1ubuntu0.1
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| 13:28 | so the same
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| 13:28 | <enaut[m]> No I mean both are Ubuntu 18.4
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| 13:28 | <stilyan> both server and client are ubuntu18 so packages should be same v
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| 13:29 | yes, both are
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| 13:29 | can I ignore /etc/ltsp/nbd-server.allow
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| 13:29 | i tried commenting it out in config
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| 13:29 | and then did nbd-server reload to refresh the conf
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| 13:29 | but I got the same error that client wasn't auth
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| 13:30 | so.. now.. I boot client like this
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| 13:30 | append ro initrd=initrd.img-4.15.0-38-generic init=/sbin/init-ltsp root=/dev/nbd0 break=init debug
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| 13:30 | and i can see with mount
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| 13:31 | what happens after that ? swap is attached ?
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| 13:32 | <enaut[m]> Mhm you are beyond my expertise now :(
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| 13:32 | <stilyan> i've been pulling my hair over this..
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| 13:33 | haven't tried building client with earlier version, e.g. 16 to try out
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| 13:33 | any idea how to completely ignore /etc/ltsp/nbd-server.allow
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| 13:33 | <enaut[m]> Maybe you could try mounting the nbd device manually in a live distro?
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| 13:33 | <stilyan> i dont need any form of auth
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| 13:33 | <mwalters> famous last words
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| 13:33 | :D
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| 13:34 | <stilyan> [15:24] <stilyan> from initramfs I'm able to get response from nbd-client {ltsp server ip} -N /opt/ltsp/{architecture} /dev/nbd0
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| 13:34 | i've tried getting it and it worked
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| 13:34 | and now having the break=init I see the /dev/nbd0 mounted
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| 13:35 | <enaut[m]> And you can ls the files?
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| 13:36 | <stilyan> dev/nbd0 on /root/rofs type squashfs (ro,realtime)
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| 13:36 | i did ls and yes, there are the directories
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| 13:37 | i have a feeling.. a great feeling /etc/ltsp/nbd-server.allow us causing my mental breakdown
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| 13:38 | do you nice people know a way to completely disable it ?
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| 13:38 | <enaut[m]> You could also try rebuilding the image or rebuilding the whole client. But as said just guessing.
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| 13:38 | <stilyan> I commented it out, reloaded config, seems its still being used
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| 13:38 | image was rebuilt this morning
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| 13:38 | what do you mean rebuild the whole client ? new chroot ?
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| 13:38 | i already got software compiled there.. will be pain but.. this is last resort, yes
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| 13:40 | <enaut[m]> Oh maybe use the server IP in nbd-server.allow instead of client.
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| 13:41 | <stilyan> why ?
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| 13:41 | ltsp server is not my dhcp
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| 13:41 | I can see IPs being assigned by the dhcp server, I am sure I tried putting the correct in authfile and still.. was denied
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| 13:42 | if not disable.. then how do I make sure absolutely everyone is allowed ? no limitations whatsoever
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| 13:48 | now I have commented authfile in nbd-server swap.conf and still getting logs regarding it
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| 13:48 | nbd_server[27963]: Can't open authorization file /etc/ltsp/nbd-server.allow (No such file or directory).
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| 13:48 | meaning.. configuration is not refreshed :0
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| 13:49 | does nbd-server reload even work on Ubuntu, maybe restart is needed ?
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| 13:49 | <enaut[m]> I think restarting nbd server is
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| 13:50 | systemctl restart nbd-server
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| 13:50 | <stilyan> :D i got terminals connected
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| 13:50 | so i guess I'll have to continue later when they are not in use
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| 13:50 | <enaut[m]> OK...
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| 13:51 | <stilyan> another things i see in syslog is in.tftpd[27979]: tftp: client does not accept options but everything seems to work
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| 13:51 | <enaut[m]> I guess you did reboot the server some time?
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| 13:52 | <stilyan> after the release upgrade ? - yes
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| 13:52 | <enaut[m]> Because if not recently I'd try that in quiet times.
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| 13:52 | <alkisg> stilyan: do you have the greek schools ppa in your sources.list?
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| 13:53 | Both on the server and the chroot?
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| 13:53 | <stilyan> um .. no ? what is it for ?
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| 13:54 | <alkisg> It provides working ltsp versions
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| 13:54 | Becuase the ones in ubuntu don't work
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| 13:54 | <stilyan> lol, nice
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| 13:54 | <alkisg> (I'm its maintainer, and an ltsp developer)
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| 13:54 | !install
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| 13:54 | <ltsp> install: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu for Ubuntu, or http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation for other distributions
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| 13:54 | <alkisg> Read the guide there
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| 13:55 | <stilyan> but.. i don't understand how it can continue working with the i386 but doesn't with amd64
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| 13:55 | with new image in general.. this is not specific to arch i believe
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| 13:55 | <alkisg> I've fixed about 100 bugs since the version you're using
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| 13:55 | <enaut[m]> But you can also simply add the ppa in server and client and update
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| 13:56 | <alkisg> I'm sure it's one of them, but I don't think it makes sense to find out which one exactly
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| 13:56 | Since even if you solve that one, you'll hit another, and another
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| 13:56 | So just add the ppa :)
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| 13:56 | add-apt-repository ppa:ts.sch.gr in both server and chroot, then apt update etc
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| 13:57 | <stilyan> shizzles.. okay
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| 13:57 | <alkisg> I've managed to put that newer version to ubuntu 18.10, but it needs more bureaucracy to put it to 18.04
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| 13:57 | <stilyan> well.. i'll break this further during the weekend and let yall know how it went
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| 13:58 | <alkisg> Oh no that was for epoptes; for ltsp,even 18.10 has a very old version
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| 13:58 | ...maybe 19.04 will get a working one :)
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| 13:58 | <stilyan> this sounds so weird..
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| 13:59 | <alkisg> New updates in systemd and all break things
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| 13:59 | LTSP is very delicate there, and needs to fix everything
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| 13:59 | And this happens after the ubuntu release
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| 13:59 | so, the normal procedure is "cherrypick all bug fixes, don't include features, then do an SRU"
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| 14:00 | That would take more than a day; we don't have that amount of manpower; so a ppa with stock ltsp releases is much easier and better for all the users
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| 14:00 | <stilyan> ok, hopefully i can get away with adding the ppa and not building a whole new system
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| 14:00 | <alkisg> E.g. I think I've done 10 ltsp releases in the ppa after ubuntu 18.04; it would take weeks to include those in 18.04
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| 14:01 | Sure, it's just an apt upgrade, it shouldn't need anything more
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| 14:01 | <stilyan> i would like to keep the i386 working since we haven't tried the amd64 yet, there may be some major issues so we need a backup plan
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| 14:01 | <enaut[m]> alkisg: maybe it would be better to remove it ltsp altogether from the official repos?
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| 14:01 | <stilyan> for the sake of curiosity - is situation with Debian the same ?
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| 14:01 | <alkisg> enaut[m]: well, some things do work :) E.g. now many things broke because of systemd, networkd, resolved etc
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| 14:02 | vagrantc takes the version that I prepare for the ppa in ubuntu, then tests it for debian and releases it
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| 14:02 | So it's usually: ppa > debian > ubuntu
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| 14:03 | enaut[m]: so, if we don't get many changes in newer releases, things work for a few years; if many things change (e.g. now we'll have wayland), then ppa is a must
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| 14:05 | enaut[m]: ubuntu allows e.g. frequent firefox new uploads. It would be nice to convince them to allow frequent ltsp upload as well; but I don't have the time to try that, it would probably take weeks to convince them, as it's a major policy change
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| 14:05 | It's rare to have a developer test his work on thousands of schools *before* uploading to ubuntu. That ensures quality, but it's not something that you can allow in general...
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| 14:06 | <enaut[m]> OK... and to get some accelerated version upgrading some additional work needs to be dome that no one has time to do I guess.
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| 14:07 | I mean it just seems counterintuitive to have packages known to not work in the repos.
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| 14:08 | <alkisg> Very. I tried to do SRUs in the past of other packages, not ltsp related, with arguments like "but version 1.5 works, and the 1.0 that you have in the repos doesn't even launch"; ...but no, the policy says "only bug fixes, not new releases"
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| 14:08 | New releases belong in ubuntu backports; although a lot of work is required to upload there too
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| 14:09 | <enaut[m]> Thank god I'm usually using Fedora :)
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| 14:10 | <alkisg> Hehe, that one doesn't even have an ltsp version in the repositories
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| 14:10 | The situation there is even worse
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| 14:11 | <enaut[m]> True... And it is almost impossible to install...
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| 14:11 | But on the other hand usually the things in the repos work or get fixed.
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| 14:11 | <alkisg> To be honest, I wouldn't like new uploads for *every* package; just for a few sensitive ones like ltsp, which may break on every little systemd or network-manager update
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| 14:11 | So... I guess that PPA is just fine for our needs
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| 14:12 | We might need to inform the users a bit better though
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| 14:12 | <enaut[m]> Yes
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| 14:15 | I mean you could add an echo to ltsp-build-client like "this version is stable. If something is broken please try the ppa at ..."
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| 14:15 | <mwalters> is it possible to get rid of all the out of date wiki articles on the ubuntu wiki?
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| 14:15 | that'd probably help a lot, those were some of the first I stumbled across when I started this position
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| 14:15 | <alkisg> You'd be very very welcome to do that :)
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| 14:15 | <mwalters> :D
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| 14:16 | <alkisg> The ubuntu wiki? Ah, that needs to be completely deleted...
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| 14:16 | I think I deleted or put a header on a couple of the most famous ones
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| 14:16 | <mwalters> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
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| 14:16 | yeah, I see the disclaimer
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| 14:16 | <alkisg> Right, I put the notice on top
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| 14:17 | <mwalters> does <blink> still work?
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| 14:17 | ;)
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| 14:17 | <alkisg> :D
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| 14:17 | rm -rf https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP could work...
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| 14:17 | <mwalters> probably the best course of action
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| 14:17 | <alkisg> Please do that! :)
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| 14:17 | <mwalters> yeah, "ubuntu ltsp" gets us that as the first result on gooooooooogle.
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| 14:18 | ltsp.org is like 4 down
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| 14:20 | <enaut[m]> Yep when I first got the computer lab I was told the software is ltsp and I tried installing according to Ubuntu wiki - I usually do not use ppa...
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| 14:21 | And only later I discovered that there is ltsp.org and its wiki.
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| 14:22 | <alkisg> I think I put that notice there years ago :D
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| 14:22 | It does needs "blink" :D
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| 14:23 | <mwalters> page is immutible
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| 14:23 | I have no idea how to wiki, lol
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| 14:44 | <enaut[m]> alkisg: who owns the wiki.ltsp.org server? Maybe it would make sense to move the wiki to github or similar? Then no one needs to maintain the servers.
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| 14:44 | <stilyan> alkisg: do you have release notes with bug fix descriptions ?
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| 14:45 | <alkisg> enaut[m]: I think people at disklessworkstation.com own it. I'm pondering using a different name for ltsp6, so that all legacy (old wikis and servers) is completely dropped...
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| 14:45 | <enaut[m]> stilyan I think the closest is got history...
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| 14:45 | <alkisg> stilyan: the short version is `apt changelog` and the long version is `git log`
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| 14:45 | https://git.launchpad.net/ltsp
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| 14:45 | And there's also ldm and ltspfs
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| 14:47 | <stilyan> thanks
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| 14:47 | most responsive dev ever.. :D
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| 14:49 | <enaut[m]> alkisg this could help - but you/we should be careful not to make a never coming perfect solution. And with renaming there will be a lot of traffic going the old path.
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| 14:51 | <alkisg> enaut[m]: oh sure, I do know where and how to start it, I'm not trying to make something perfect, just get rid of old legacy (like, the 90% of the old code :D)
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| 14:51 | I'm just waiting for some funding to start... :)
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| 14:57 | <stilyan> till Monday guys, have a great weekend !
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| 14:58 | stilyan has left IRC (stilyan!6dc781db@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.199.129.219, Quit: Page closed) | |
| 14:59 | <alkisg> You too
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| 15:40 | <quinox> I'm against changing names, nothing good comes from it. Consistently using LTSP6/LTSP7/LTSP8 everywhere (man pages, wiki etc) might also fix it?
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| 15:52 | <alkisg> quinox: if we don't have access to ltsp.org, we can't fix anything there
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| 15:52 | So if we buy thenewname.org, we'll have access
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| 15:55 | <quinox> ltsp6.org
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| 15:55 | :D
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| 15:55 | <alkisg> Haha, and then ltsp7.org? Also I'm not sure about trademark issues there...
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| 15:56 | I think vagrantc has asked the trademark holders to give it to the community, but he hasn't had any response over the years
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| 15:56 | <quinox> that's too bad
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| 15:56 | their latest tweet is from 2013
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| 15:56 | <mwalters> There's no better time than now ;)
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| 15:57 | <alkisg> Also I'm not sure "linux terminal server project" is still a good name
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| 15:57 | <quinox> but they are still paying for their website, so somebody must still be alive
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| 15:57 | <alkisg> LTSP focuses more on "install once, run everywhere" now
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| 15:57 | <mwalters> yeah, doesn't sound like there's a ton of "thin" clients left
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| 15:57 | <quinox> you can keep the LTSP letters and drop the acronym part
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| 15:57 | * alkisg was thinking about "maintain a single installation", "masi"... but doesn't like the sound of it, too italian | |
| 15:58 | <mwalters> lol
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| 15:58 | <quinox> there's a phonenumber on their website, we can try calling them
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| 15:58 | <alkisg> Oh we can mail them and everything; sometimes scotty and jim even still come here,like twice a year
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| 15:59 | E.g. I've asked jim if I can host ltsp.org, he said he'd look in upgrading the 8.04, but that's 2 years ago now...
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| 15:59 | <mwalters> they just clam up when someone brings up the domain?
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| 16:00 | <quinox> cool, must have missed that (or not realized who was chatting)
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| 16:00 | <alkisg> They don't have enough time for ltsp, I guess. I don't blame them for that; that's why new names are needed, when too much legacy is gathered
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| 16:00 | E.g. even getting the team name for launchpad or github can be an issue
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| 16:01 | When no devs are left from the initial team, it's usually a good time for a new name :)
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| 16:01 | <quinox> ltsp-ng
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| 16:01 | <alkisg> Yeah lns, a member here 10 years ago, had started a project named ltsp-ng
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| 16:02 | <quinox> (I'm not a fan of the -ng extension, but it does communicate what's going on)
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| 16:02 | <alkisg> It's not ltsp anymore
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| 16:02 | It's a complete redesign, with no old code left
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| 16:02 | So I don't think ltsp-ng is appropriate...
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| 16:02 | Either ltsp just to avoid confusing users, or something completely unrelated
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| 16:03 | * alkisg waves for now, later! | |
| 16:03 | <quinox> ltsp-ng-ng
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| 16:03 | bye
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| 16:03 | <alkisg> :D
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| 16:04 | <quinox> I think with a new name you'll throw a lot of brand recognition away, especially for something that's already not widely known
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| 16:04 | or maybe I'm just an old git that can't deal with change
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| 16:07 | <mwalters> I don't mean it as a slight, but is there really any brand recognition right now?
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| 16:10 | <enaut[m]> I think there is... as many users are teachers... usually they install the classroom and only update when something is broken. So if you change the name those will not find the ltsp-ng-ng-bestest-ng program...
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| 16:13 | <mwalters> Dunno where everyone is... I worked in state compliance in education here before (SIS/PowerSchool/Pearson) and didn't hear of ltsp until this job... obviously my own experience isn't applicable universally, but I had never heard of it before, even being involved in open source/linux for over 10 years
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| 16:13 | or maybe I had heard of it, but it wasn't applicable at the time and so I dismissed it
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| 16:14 | "here' being the USA
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| 16:15 | <enaut[m]> mwalters: thats exactly my point... people will not hear of the new solution
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| 16:15 | while they might have heard of the old one
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| 16:17 | <mwalters> I guess I'm just picturing exactly what happens when someone follows the old instructions
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| 16:17 | applied to a new project name
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| 16:17 | "Hey I tried to _____ from the instructions at _____ and it's broken"
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| 16:17 | "Oh, that's because _____ is old, you need to use _____ now"
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| 16:18 | Same problem, new nouns ;)
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| 16:18 | <quinox> surely Google ranks newer pages about LTSP higher than older pages
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| 16:19 | <mwalters> "Ubuntu ltsp" gets you the ubuntu wiki ;)
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| 16:20 | straight "ltsp" will get you ltsp.org at least
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| 16:20 | <quinox> I suppose writing "[This is the homepage of] MANI (formely known as LTSP)!" consistently might help
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| 16:21 | but I have no data to back up one way or another
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| 16:21 | I'll be still using it, whatever it's called
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| 16:22 | (someone that is trying to get people to forget them: Blackwater -> Xe Services -> Academi -> Constellis Holdings)
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| 17:43 | <alkisg> Eh, epoptes got known pretty fast, I don't think a new name is an issue. All the existing users would quickly switch, imho...
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| 17:43 | But the main problem is to actually write that new version :)
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| 21:19 | <josefig> One question, someone has information about how to create an image for raspberry thin terminal? I'm using the kiwi-ltsp package from opensuse and running smoothly but some one form the company asked us to review if is possible to do it with raspberry as the arch is ARM
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| 21:48 | <alkisg> !raspberrypi
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| 21:49 | <ltsp> raspberrypi: (#1) Ubuntu/LTSP on Pi 2: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/RaspberryPi, or (#2) Debian/LTSP (with raspbian chroot) on Pi: http://cascadia.debian.net/trenza/Documentation/raspberrypi-ltsp-howto/, or (#3) unofficial Ubuntu/LTSP (with raspbian chroot) on Pi: http://pinet.org.uk/
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| 21:49 | <alkisg> josefig: ^
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