IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 1 July 2011 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:47 | <Gnoze5> yellow
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| 08:49 | <rickogden> with fat clients and localapps, will they automatically override the server apps at startup if they're installed on the server too?
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| 09:06 | <alkisg> rickogden: fat clients OR localapps?
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| 09:10 | <rickogden> ah, maybe I'm getting my wires crossed, I thought fat clients contained localapps?
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| 09:10 | <alkisg> Fat clients == ALL the apps are in the chroot
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| 09:10 | Localapps == some are in the chroot, some on the server
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| 09:12 | <rickogden> ahh
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| 09:14 | so any app on the server under fat clients are run using the local hardware?
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| 09:14 | <alkisg> Any app in the chroot on the server
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| 09:15 | Not on the server itself
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| 09:15 | <rickogden> oh right
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| 09:15 | <alkisg> So e.g. you might not even have X installed on the server, but have a complete desktop in /opt/ltsp/i386
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| 09:26 | <rickogden> alkisg: so I need to install all packages
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| 09:26 | on the client?
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| 09:27 | <alkisg> rickogden: are you planning on using fat clients or localapps? And, on which distro/version?
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| 09:28 | <rickogden> fat clients on 10.04
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| 09:28 | Ubuntu
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| 09:29 | but also have the ability for connection with NX
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| 09:29 | <alkisg> Did you read the wiki page? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 09:30 | <rickogden> yep
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| 09:30 | <alkisg> After doing those steps, you'll have a complete desktop in your /opt/ltsp/i386
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| 09:30 | If you want more apps, sure, put them there
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| 09:30 | For NX, it's not LTSP related. You just install freenx or neatx on the server, as simple as that.
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| 09:31 | <rickogden> yeah, which I've got already working
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| 09:31 | and moving from thin clients to fat clients
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| 09:31 | it's just making sure that both the client and the server have the same apps installed
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| 09:32 | <alkisg> If you want to have fat/thin/nx access, yes, you need to keep the applications in sync
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| 09:32 | It's like maintaining 2 different installations, one=the server, two=the chroot
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| 09:32 | <rickogden> yeah, that should be ok
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| 09:32 | and should reduce the load on the server
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| 09:33 | <alkisg> Fat clients don't require any server load at all. Just disk/network bandwidth
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| 09:33 | Btw you don't need multiple chroots, just move your thin one somewhere as a backup, and start with the fat one from scratch
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| 09:33 | <rickogden> that's what I've done
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| 09:33 | <alkisg> Then thin clients can be booted from the fat chroot too
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| 09:33 | <rickogden> does the fat client use nbd?
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| 09:33 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 09:34 | <rickogden> I'll implement that hack that you came up with last year to solve that problem again :)
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| 09:34 | <alkisg> Which problem was it? With ipappend?
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| 09:34 | <rickogden> the computers were too fast for the connection
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| 09:35 | <alkisg> Ah. Now it's easier, you just download the new file, I've fixed that upstream
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| 09:35 | <rickogden> so I added a `sleep 5` into the ltsp_nbd script after bringing the connection up
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| 09:35 | oh right, where can I get the new file from?
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| 09:36 | <alkisg> Btw you might also want to disable nbd proxy (it sometimes hangs the clients) and re-enable compression, to make nbd access 2.5 times faster
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| 09:36 | <rickogden> or is it in the repos?
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| 09:36 | <alkisg> !disable-nbd-proxy
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| 09:36 | <ltsp> alkisg: disable-nbd-proxy: To disable nbd-proxy on Ubuntu Lucid (10.04) and Maverick (10.10), follow the instructions in comment #13 in this link: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/589034.
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| 09:36 | <alkisg> On that comment above, the file you'll get fixes the "fast clients" problem too
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| 09:36 | There are full instructions there on how to apply the file
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| 09:36 | <rickogden> just a patch file?
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| 09:37 | <alkisg> A new file, that overwrites the old one. And some commands. Just follow the steps there.
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| 09:37 | <rickogden> excellent thanks
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| 09:37 | <alkisg> np, bbl
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| 09:40 | <rickogden> haha, my blog post about this issue is in the launchpad thread
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| 09:58 | <rickogden> bah, after applying that fix I get: drm:drm_fb_helper_panic
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| 10:25 | <rhce7320> I have just done an upgrade of an Edubuntu LTSP system ^ have broken the PXE boot stage. I wireshark, I see tftpd return the error "...TFTP Error Code, Code: Access violation, Message: Forbidden directory\000"
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| 10:28 | The PXE stack gets a successful DCHP config before this.
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| 10:35 | <rhce7320> The tftp request from the pxe stack is (in wireshark) "TFTP Read Request, File: /ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0\000, Transfer type: octet\000, tsize\000=0\000"
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| 11:56 | <alkisg> rickogden: that new udhcp script should be completely unrelated to drm problems
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| 11:57 | <rickogden> alkisg: yeah, I've been digging into it, it's before that script even happens
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| 11:57 | hmm... why was it working on the old thin client script, but not the new one?
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| 11:58 | <alkisg> What does this give you? head -n 1 /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-premount/udhcp
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| 11:59 | <rickogden> #!/bin/sh
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| 12:00 | change it to bash?
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| 12:00 | <alkisg> No no
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| 12:00 | It's just that some people erroneously download the html version of the page
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| 12:00 | Is it executable? ls -lha /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-premount/udhcp
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| 12:00 | <rickogden> I didn't download something for udhcp
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| 12:00 | <alkisg> Ah sorry
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| 12:00 | <rickogden> it was ltsp_nbd
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| 12:00 | <alkisg> Yes I forgot, ltsp_nbd
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| 12:01 | So let's do it again: head -n 1 /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/ltsp_nbd
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| 12:01 | <rickogden> and it's the script not the html page (although I did that the first time)
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| 12:01 | <alkisg> # NBD filesystem mounting -*- shell-script -*-
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| 12:02 | <rickogden> yup
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| 12:02 | <alkisg> It says that on top, and it's executable?
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| 12:02 | <rickogden> ooh, not checked it's executability
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| 12:02 | ahah!
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| 12:02 | <alkisg> No no forget it
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| 12:02 | It doesn't need to be, only udhcp needs to be executable
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| 12:03 | ltsp_nbd is sourced instead
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| 12:03 | <rickogden> oh right
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| 12:03 | changed anyway ;)
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| 12:03 | <alkisg> No leave it with the defaults
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| 12:03 | You don't want to cause other problems while trying to solve one
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| 12:03 | sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 12:03 | Remove quiet splash from there
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| 12:03 | Reboot the client and type here the last 3-4 lines
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| 12:03 | <rickogden> yeah, that's what I did
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| 12:04 | <alkisg> And what do those lines say? They help to know at which point the client broke.
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| 12:04 | <rickogden> it just hung before, so I removed that, and this is how I got the error
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| 12:04 | <alkisg> So don't just write the last one, write the last 3-4 ones
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| 12:05 | Or better yet get a screenshot, if you have a mobile phone or camera.
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| 12:06 | <rickogden> do_group_exit, sys_exit_group, syscall_call, [drm:drm_fb_helper_panic] ERROR panic occurred, switching back to text console
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| 12:06 | that I can do, one sec
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| 12:06 | <alkisg> All that's part of the kernel panic
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| 12:06 | The text above the kernel panic would tell us how far the client gets
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| 12:07 | Also if you have a client with a different graphics card, try if that one boots
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| 12:07 | bbiab
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| 12:07 | <rickogden> it is the init-premount, eth0: link not ready
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| 12:07 | Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init
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| 12:14 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, before you gave me some hints to get UDF formatted CD-ROMs working with LTSP local devices
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| 12:14 | You told me to compile the latest version of ltspfsd
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| 12:15 | I should do this in the client chroot, correct?
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| 12:37 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: afaik you could compile it in any system with that architecture
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| 12:37 | Maybe you could even use the binary from fedora :D
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| 12:37 | !learn adding-modules as https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AddingModules
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| 12:37 | <ltsp> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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| 12:38 | <alkisg> !forget adding-modules
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| 12:38 | <ltsp> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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| 12:39 | <alkisg> !learn adding-modules as If your clients won't boot with messages like "eth0: link not ready", maybe you're missing an initramfs-module: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AddingModules
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| 12:39 | <ltsp> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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| 12:39 | <alkisg> !adding-modules | echo rickogden:
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| 12:39 | <ltsp> rickogden: adding-modules: If your clients won't boot with messages like eth0: link not ready , maybe you're missing an initramfs-module: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AddingModules.
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| 12:39 | <rickogden> thanks!
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| 13:01 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, this source compile business is failing badly.
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| 13:01 | At least inside the thin client chroot it is.
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| 13:15 | <rickogden> weird, it's exactly the same as the thin client
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| 13:15 | which works
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| 13:19 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, on the server itself I had more luck... I've just ran debuild -b -tc without errors
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| 13:19 | Now what? :)
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| 13:20 | Wait, no, I didn't run debuild... nuts.
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| 13:20 | * Hyperbyte isn't feeling too good today. :\ | |
| 13:20 | <dead_inside> lol its ok, its friday
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| 13:21 | <Hyperbyte> debuild -b -tc fails with file doesn't exist debian/tmp/usr/bin/ltspfs
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| 13:24 | <rickogden> alkisg: sorted now, thanks!
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| 13:25 | <alkisg> You're welcome
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| 13:25 | Hyperbyte: try those:
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| 13:25 | cd /tmp
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| 13:25 | mkdir ltspfs
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| 13:25 | cd ltspfs
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| 13:25 | apt-get source ltspfs
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| 13:25 | cd ltspfs-0.6
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| 13:25 | apt-get build-dep ltspfs
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| 13:25 | debuild -b -tc
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| 13:26 | <Hyperbyte> 0.7 actually
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| 13:26 | Not sure if that changes things
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| 13:26 | <alkisg> Once you get the stock package to compile, THEN go on with getting the newer source
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| 13:27 | <Hyperbyte> I think you mean apt-get build-dep ltspfsd?
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| 13:27 | <rickogden> can I install new things to the chroot by doing a chroot and using apt-get?
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| 13:27 | <Hyperbyte> Ah, no... you told me ltspfsd before. :)
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| 13:27 | Either way those are installed.
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| 13:27 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: it's the same source package, it doesn't matter
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| 13:28 | <Hyperbyte> :)
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| 13:28 | <alkisg> You compile the source package and get 2-3 debs from there (not sure exactly, I don't use ltspfsd)
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| 13:29 | <Hyperbyte> gpg: /tmp/debsign.VD02cudQ/ltspfs_0.7-2_amd64.changes: clearsign failed: secret key not available
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| 13:30 | <alkisg> OK, other than that it produced some .debs?
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| 13:30 | (also, I remember some problems with ltspfsd and amd64, not sure what it was)
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| 13:31 | <Hyperbyte> No, the gpg error is reason for it to abort.
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| 13:31 | Wait, yeah... the server host is amd64, client is i386
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| 13:31 | This isn't gonna work anyways.
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| 13:32 | <alkisg> Which of the two needed the update?
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| 13:33 | <Hyperbyte> i386
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| 13:33 | <alkisg> No, I mean, ltspfs or ltspfsd?
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| 13:33 | <Hyperbyte> There's difference?
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| 13:33 | According to you, ltspfs
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| 13:33 | <alkisg> bzr branch lp:~ltsp-upstream/ltspfs/ltspfs-trunk
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| 13:33 | <alkisg> sudo apt-get build-dep ltspfsd
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| 13:34 | <alkisg> debuild -b -tc
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| 13:34 | <alkisg> Those should get you an ltspfsd.deb to install
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| 13:34 | Or ltspfsd?
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| 13:34 | <alkisg> OK you need cdpinger, which is contained in ltspfsd
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| 13:34 | So yes you want an i386 executable
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| 13:35 | <Hyperbyte> I'm gonna retry this in the chroot
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| 13:37 | First error with apt-get build-dep.... Can not write log, openpty() failed (/dev/pts not mounted?)
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| 13:37 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: which ubuntu version?
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| 13:37 | <Hyperbyte> I did bind mount /dev though
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| 13:37 | Natty
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| 13:40 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alkisg/tmp/cdpinger
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| 13:40 | Backup your existing one first
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| 13:41 | /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/sbin/cdpinger
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| 13:42 | <Hyperbyte> How does that fit into all this?
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| 13:43 | <alkisg> I compiled it for you, and I'm giving you the result :)
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| 13:43 | You only care about updating that single executable
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| 13:43 | <Hyperbyte> Wait
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| 13:43 | I'm done now?
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| 13:43 | <alkisg> Yeah, no need to compile anything if it works
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| 13:43 | <Hyperbyte> Local dev will work with UDF CD's?
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| 13:43 | Oh cool
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| 13:44 | <alkisg> That's what the commit says
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| 13:44 | <Hyperbyte> By the way - compile goes wrong I think because the client has locale problems.
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| 13:44 | Remember we spent a whole lot of time trying to get LDM in any language besides English?
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| 13:44 | <alkisg> You probably still have some conf file wrong...
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| 13:44 | <Hyperbyte> root@terminalserver:~# export LC_ALL="en_US"
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| 13:44 | bash: warning: setlocale: LC_ALL: cannot change locale (en_US)
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| 13:45 | * Hyperbyte shrugs. | |
| 13:45 | <Hyperbyte> If this works, I owe you a beer.
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| 13:45 | <alkisg> Remember to put .UTF-8 in the end
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| 13:45 | You also need ltsp-update-image
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| 13:46 | (for cdpinger)
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| 13:46 | <Hyperbyte> Yeah
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| 13:47 | root@terminalserver:~# export LC_ALL="en_US.UTF-8"
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| 13:47 | bash: warning: setlocale: LC_ALL: cannot change locale (en_US.UTF-8): No such file or directory
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| 13:48 | * Hyperbyte updates image | |
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| 14:14 | <rickogden> is the entire fat-client downloaded on boot?
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| 14:15 | <alkisg> No
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| 14:15 | Only needed "sectors" are read each time
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| 14:16 | <rickogden> excellent :)
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| 14:16 | as it's getting to be many GBs
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| 14:17 | <Hyperbyte> How can I find out again what partition type a CD is?
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| 14:17 | Does it show in dmesg?
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| 14:17 | <alkisg> Does blkid show it? Or fdisk -l ?
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| 14:17 | Or cat /proc/mounts ...
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| 14:20 | <Hyperbyte> Seems to show in dmesg as well as soon as I insert a CD
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| 14:28 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, seems to work now
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| 14:28 | <Hyperbyte> I have two UDF disks I tested with, one was problematic.... but even on Windows it was terribly slow, and I saw some read errors coming from it in dmesg
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| 14:29 | Collegue has 20 disks or so he needs to work though, so gave him all disks back told him to retry... we'll see if they all work except that one
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| 14:41 | <alkisg> Nice
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| 14:53 | <Hyperbyte> :)
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| 14:54 | Thanks a bunch, making life a little easier on a friday. :)
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| 14:54 | !alkisg
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| 14:54 | <ltsp> Hyperbyte: alkisg: The LTSP oracle. Our beacon of hope in the world of LTSP. With the guidance of this divine emperor, we shall prevail..
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| 14:54 | <dead_inside> amen, all hail the emperor
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| 14:56 | <alkisg> Omg. Dear loyal subjects. Cut the cr** :D
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| 15:11 | <Hyperbyte> :-D
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| 17:31 | <Roasted> hello hello!
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| 17:35 | <Hyperbyte> Hi.
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| 17:47 | <Roasted> hello hello
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| 17:47 | I assume there's an active PPA/repo for LTSP? I'm redoing my LTSP box and I'm going from 10.10 which was a test drive back to 10.04 to use an LTS.
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| 17:47 | I just want to make sure I have *the* most updated LTSP, etc...
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| 18:01 | <Hyperbyte> I don't think there are more recent Ubuntu packages than the ones that come with it
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| 18:01 | !ltsp-upstream
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| 18:01 | <ltsp> Hyperbyte: Error: "ltsp-upstream" is not a valid command.
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| 18:02 | <Hyperbyte> :\
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| 18:02 | !source
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| 18:02 | <ltsp> Hyperbyte: My source is at http://supybot.com/
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| 18:02 | <Hyperbyte> Not yours. :\
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| 18:03 | <Roasted> how "old" is the LTSP on 10.04 vs 11.04?
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| 18:03 | <Hyperbyte> Not a clue.
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| 18:03 | <Roasted> I just want to make sure I'm not missing out on anything, ya know.
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| 18:03 | <Hyperbyte> Just curious, why do you use Ubuntu 10.04 instead of 11.04?
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| 18:03 | <Roasted> And I do know there was that bug I ran into that was supposedly published upstream. I hate to miss out on that fix.
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| 18:03 | well
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| 18:03 | I wanted to use 11.04
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| 18:03 | but since 10.04 was an LTS I just thought, eh, maybe I should?
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| 18:03 | 10.10 has ran beautifully, though. so I really have no reason to switch to begin with.
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| 18:04 | it's just summer vacation so I'm updating stuff and I got a new server to toy with
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| 18:04 | since we're expanding it I wasn't sure if LTS was the best route to go or if 11.04 would do me fine, whcih I'm sur eit would, but just saying...
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| 18:05 | <Hyperbyte> What do you mean 'LTS'?
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| 18:05 | <Roasted> long term support
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| 18:05 | <Hyperbyte> Ohh
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| 18:05 | Well I'm running LTSP on Edubuntu 11.04 and I'm very satisfied with it
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| 18:05 | <Roasted> how many clients are you using?
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| 18:05 | and are you using Unity?
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| 18:05 | <Hyperbyte> I've ran into some slight problems, but nothing this channel hasn't been able to help me overcome. =)
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| 18:06 | No, I don't use Unity.
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| 18:06 | <Hyperbyte> And I'm running about 9 clients or so.
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| 18:06 | <Roasted> do you use gnome classic?
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| 18:06 | nice
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| 18:06 | <Hyperbyte> Not very much...
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| 18:06 | <Roasted> I'm looking to put about 70 on
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| 18:06 | <Hyperbyte> Yeah, use classic Gnome.
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| 18:06 | <Roasted> I wonder if one server can handle 70....
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| 18:06 | it's a beefy server...
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| 18:06 | two six core processors, 48gb of RAM, 4x gigabit NIC...
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| 18:07 | <Hyperbyte> I think the 4x gigabit NIC could be your bottleneck
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| 18:07 | <Roasted> I'm doubtful, to be honest.
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| 18:07 | My current server only has 1x gigabit NIC
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| 18:07 | and it serves 30 systems just fine
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| 18:08 | <Hyperbyte> Really?
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| 18:08 | <Roasted> so if I double the clients, yet quadruple the NICs...
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| 18:08 | yep
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| 18:08 | <Hyperbyte> That's cool.
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| 18:08 | <Roasted> my current server is a dual proc/dual core HP G5
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| 18:08 | 2.66 intel xeon
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| 18:08 | 4 cores total, 12gb of RAM, 1x gigabit nic
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| 18:08 | I'm going to look into binding the NICs
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| 18:08 | perhaps 2 per lab
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| 18:08 | <Hyperbyte> What do your users do?
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| 18:08 | <Roasted> high school students.
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| 18:08 | mostly libre office, firefox, etc.
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| 18:09 | <Hyperbyte> Ahh... well that's not too bad.
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| 18:09 | <Roasted> general purpose, research, etc
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| 18:09 | the occasional flash user but nothing substantial
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| 18:09 | certainly no CADD or blender style stuff
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| 18:09 | <Hyperbyte> Well you've done the maths it seems. :)
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| 18:10 | <Roasted> well we ran into a snag last year
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| 18:10 | 3 miserable failures of "windows based thin clients"
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| 18:10 | we didn't have much choice :P
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| 18:10 | <Hyperbyte> I have no experience with that many users on one server, I deployed it at the company I work for, which is just a small business... I mainly chose LTSP because I wanted opensource and also wanted centralised management
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| 18:10 | <Roasted> it was such a hit, the teachers want to see more
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| 18:10 | I have 3 installations of LTSP
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| 18:10 | all 10.10
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| 18:10 | 8, 9, and 30
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| 18:11 | the 8 and 9 are ran by typical desktop computers... Dual Core AMD 1.8ghz, 4gb DDR2 ram, 1gb NIC
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| 18:11 | then the 30 by the G5
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| 18:11 | I'm dumping the G5, adding 30 more clients, and maybe 10 stragglers, all onto the two 6 core system
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| 18:11 | 30, 30, (two labs) + potentially 10 random boxes = 70 on one server. praying it works...
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| 18:12 | <Hyperbyte> Stick around a bit, I'm sure there's people who can tell you more than I can. :)
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| 18:12 | <Roasted> well when you break down the numbers, in theory, it should work
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| 18:12 | keyword, theory
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| 18:12 | if 1gb NIC serves 30 clients in my environment, why can't 4 serve 70?
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| 18:12 | certainly the processing power should be ample, and the RAM
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| 18:13 | I was just curious about the 10.04 LTS vs 11.04 thing
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| 18:13 | that's all
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| 18:13 | <Hyperbyte> :)
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| 18:15 | <Roasted> so do you not use unity based on personal preference?
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| 18:15 | or did you not want any 3d oriented DE's running via thin clients?
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| 18:20 | <Hyperbyte> I've never ever used Unity, I switched from Fedora
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| 18:21 | So didn't see the need, other than that my thin client hardware didn't support it, LTSP said
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| 18:21 | <Roasted> I see
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| 18:21 | Fedora doesn't even use Unity
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| 18:21 | they're on Gnome Shell
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| 18:21 | <Hyperbyte> Technically it should be able to though, I think, but since I don't actually want Unity, I didn't investigate.
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| 18:21 | <Roasted> which is what I prefer, but I think I'll use XFCE on my thin clients.
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| 18:22 | I don't need to give HS students any 3d eye candy. They'll get distracted. :P
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| 18:22 | <Hyperbyte> Hehehe
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| 18:50 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, out of curiousity. What's the maximum amount of clients you know can log in on one server?
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| 18:51 | (depending on hardware specs of course, but I'm curious what the record is)
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| 19:16 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: no idea, each school here only has 1-2 labs, with about a dozen PCs each. So better ask in the channel, many people here have large installations.
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| 19:38 | <Hyperbyte> I did ask in the channel. ;-) I guess the question is in general then. :)
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| 19:41 | <alkisg> Yeah wrong wording there, what I meant was that it would be better if you directed your question to all the channel members instead of prefixing it with "alkisg:" :)
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| 19:43 | <Hyperbyte> Yeah, I got ya. :-)
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| 19:43 | So in general... what's the record for thin clients on a single server? :)
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| 19:43 | <alkisg> Anyone tried xpra? Does it have any overhead when one has it installed, but isn't currently using it?
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| 19:52 | <alkisg> Hmmm not bad at all, xpra is way faster than vnc
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| 21:54 | <alkisg_web> vagrantc: a bit help, please? I'm trying to get this sid package to my wheezy: http://packages.debian.org/sid/nvidia-glx-legacy-96xx
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| 21:54 | echo -e 'Package: *\nPin: release a=sid\nPin-Priority: 400' > /etc/apt/preferences.d/sid
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| 21:54 | Does this look ok? ^
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| 21:55 | <vagrantc> release n=sid
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| 21:55 | or release a=unstable
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| 21:55 | <alkisg_web> ty :)
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| 21:56 | <vagrantc> alkisg_web: of course :)
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| 22:05 | <alkisg_web> Hmmm this doesn't look good... http://paste.debian.net/121637/
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