IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 11 October 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:43 | <sbalneav> Evening all
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| 01:47 | <arguser> hello, is there a DRBL channel on Freenode ?
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| 01:55 | <sbalneav> arguser: Not sure. Did you try /join #drbl?
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| 02:11 | <arguser> yeh
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| 02:11 | It's me and @ChanServ
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| 02:11 | <highvoltage> hey it's sbalneav!
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| 02:12 | sbalneav: back home?
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| 02:29 | <sbalneav> highvoltage: Yes!
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| 09:14 | <ltspuser_27> hello! I have a thin client that when he boots using ubuntu 12.04 this message appears: "Exported device is too big for me"
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| 09:15 | can I erase something from the chroot image to make it not so heavy?
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| 09:17 | <alkisg> Does that happen with other clients?
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| 09:19 | <ltspuser_27> no because the others are better
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| 09:19 | this one only have 128 MB of memory...
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| 09:20 | <elias_a> alkisg: About the Google Maps-problem: there is no changelog in GMaps.
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| 09:20 | <ltspuser_27> http://www.lucidatech.com/product/lt1600.htm
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| 09:20 | is this one...
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| 09:20 | <elias_a> alkisg: We try to get the map into an Open StreetMap layer.
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| 09:21 | <alkisg> elias_a: won't you try to put them as a story in ltsp.org?
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| 09:22 | <alkisg> ltspuser_27: that message comes from nbd-client, I don't think it's related to RAM at all
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| 09:32 | <ltspuser_27> so it's related to what??
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| 09:37 | markit has joined IRC (markit!~marco@88-149-177-66.v4.ngi.it) | |
| 09:39 | <markit> hi ppl, hi alkisg. I've put a echo of stderr in /usr/bin/startkde in the lnusetemp part, and I get "Error: "/home/.cache/kdecache-marco" is owned by uid 65534 instead of uid 1001." when it tires to create the cache. Are you sure that at that stage the user should have ownership of his home?
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| 09:40 | brb
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| 09:43 | <alkisg> markit: /home/.cache? No "username" there?
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| 09:57 | <ltspuser_27> this guy has the same problem
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| 09:57 | http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.drivers.nbd.general/1629
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| 09:57 | in the end he says:
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| 09:57 | the problem was fixed. After all it was a problem in Dracut with the nbd-client command which resulted in this error. The line used was: nbd-client 192.168.0.1 '-N ltsp' /dev/nbd0 and removing the quotes fixed it.
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| 09:58 | where I can change that?
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| 09:58 | <knipwim> ltspuser_27: that's me :)
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| 09:58 | you use dracut as initramfs?
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| 10:00 | <ltspuser_27> no...
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| 10:00 | but could be the same problem...
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| 10:01 | I have this problem
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| 10:01 | and I don't know how to solve it
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| 10:05 | <alkisg> ltspuser_27: after the problem, do you get an "initramfs>" shell?
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| 10:18 | <markit> alkisg: correct, I took the wrong line to paste here, was first attempt
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| 10:18 | let me find the last one, where I set the cache to be in home/user/.cache
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| 10:18 | (or maybe I was too tired and did not noticed the error)
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| 10:18 | <alkisg> markit: also note that you might be seeing problems with symlink targets instead of dirs
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| 10:19 | So if you're using symlinks, you also need to tell us where they point to
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| 10:19 | <markit> root@ltsp102:~# cat /tmp/lnuser.log
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| 10:19 | Error: "/home/marco/.cache/kdecache-marco" is owned by uid 65534 instead of uid 1001.
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| 10:20 | alkisg: it should create /home/marco/.cache/kdecache-marco first, and then create a symling among ~/.kde/cache-hostname and ./.cache/kdecache-marco then
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| 10:22 | <alkisg> markit: can you check that file once you login, to verify that it's not owned by "nobody"?
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| 10:22 | markit: also, I'm not sure if you're using NFS or sshfs after all...
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| 10:23 | NFS mounts happen on boot, much before login time
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| 10:23 | You can verify that with ssh/epoptes/screen_02=shell etc
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| 10:25 | <markit> I could add a "ls -l" before lnusertemp and dump the output to a temp log, so you can check that home files "look" owned by nobody:nogroup at that stage
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| 10:25 | <markit_2> mmm I've been disconnected
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| 10:26 | alkisg: btw, I've received my raspberry pi yesterday :) oh, I breathed again the old feeling of limited resources and a hacking device :)
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| 10:26 | <alkisg> Hehe
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| 10:26 | <alkisg> bbl
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| 10:26 | <markit_2> really my complain is ram.. 256MB.. 512 should have consted only some euros more
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| 10:27 | but would have done a big difference
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| 10:28 | <Hyperbyte> markit, I think that's the wrong approach to limited resources. :)
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| 10:28 | alkisg can tell you more about it. ;-)
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| 10:28 | <markit> Hyperbyte: I was there when you had 64K but only 32K for data... really is something I don't want to experience again
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| 10:29 | expecially now when 256MB more should have costed probably 5 euros
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| 10:29 | <Hyperbyte> markit, hey, I'm planning on ordering a new server for work here with at least 64 GB memory - you don't have to convince me! :)
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| 10:30 | <markit> Hyperbyte: uh, that will cost much more than 5 euros ;P
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| 10:30 | <Hyperbyte> I'm just saying: if you're going to experiment with platforms with limited resources, you shouldn't say 'oh if only I had a little more' ;-)
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| 10:30 | <markit> Hyperbyte: virtualization? have you checked proxmox project?
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| 10:30 | <Hyperbyte> That's the wrong approach to the challenge.
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| 10:30 | <markit> Hyperbyte: correct, but don't worry, the cpu is limited too and I don't complain
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| 10:31 | <Hyperbyte> markit, virtualization, yes.
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| 10:31 | Proxmox I haven't heard of. Was planning qemu-kvm.
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| 10:31 | <markit> http://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Main_Page
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| 10:31 | Hyperbyte: it has openvz + strong support for kvm
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| 10:31 | <Hyperbyte> Ah. Proxmox is just the GUI, right?
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| 10:32 | Like virt-manager?
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| 10:33 | * Hyperbyte reads | |
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| 10:36 | <ltspuser_37> I'm havng this problem
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| 10:36 | http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.drivers.nbd.general/1629
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| 10:36 | any help??
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| 10:36 | <knipwim> you didn't use dracut you said?
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| 10:36 | <ltspuser_37> I'm not using Dracut but I don't know how to see if this resolution works
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| 10:37 | <knipwim> well, it was a problem in dracut resulting in a wrong nbd-client command
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| 10:37 | <Hyperbyte> markit, that doesn't seem too useful, on top of what is already there. The least thing I want is some layer that sits between me and the software I'm using. I'd rather just use qemu-kvm directly... definitely not via a web interface.
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| 10:37 | <knipwim> can you do a nbd-client connect from another client?
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| 10:38 | <ltspuser_37> I have other terminal
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| 10:38 | <Hyperbyte> I mean, it seems like a great idea for people who are new to virtualization or Linux... bit like how FreePBX can be useful for people who want a Linux PBX, but don't know much about it. Or Webmin or Plesk. Useful for lots of people, but if you're already a Linux and virtualization user, it just seems like it'd get in the way.
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| 10:39 | <ltspuser_37> this one is the weakest
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| 10:39 | <Hyperbyte> Unless I understood what I just read completely wrong.
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| 10:39 | <ltspuser_37> only happening with ths one...
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| 10:40 | <Hyperbyte> ltspuser_37, just a random thought here - did you run a ram test on the client?
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| 10:41 | <ltspuser_37> no
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| 10:41 | but I know that this one has 128MB
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| 10:41 | and the other has 2GB
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| 10:42 | :P
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| 10:42 | but I need to put working with the one with 128MB
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| 10:42 | because is cheaper
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| 10:43 | <knipwim> ltspuser_37: how large is the image on the server?
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| 10:47 | <epoptes_user0> can someone here help me with config epoptes ?
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| 10:50 | <ltspuser_37> 351M
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| 10:52 | <markit> Hyperbyte: spend some time reading the doc... there is HA, DRDB, live migrations, backup, flexyble storage model and the web interface does not prevent you from doing directly, is the Unix way where interface just sit on top of command lines programs
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| 10:52 | Hyperbyte: unless you have plenty of time and really enjoy doing stuff at basic level
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| 10:53 | I also when asterisk was 1.1 created the dialplan in extensions.conf with an editor
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| 10:53 | but now with Elastix I can setup my home PBX in a snap, compared
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| 10:53 | of course knowing what is going "under the hood" helps a lot for troubleshooting
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| 10:54 | so you can keep you knowledge and "leverage" with the help of proxmox
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| 10:54 | but proxmox is what I use and apreciate, of course different situations/feelings/problems/experience/etc makes not a perfect solution for everybody :)
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| 10:56 | <ltspuser_37> knipwim: any suggestions?
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| 10:58 | <Hyperbyte> ltspuser_37, I didn't ask you to verify how much ram there is in there. I asked if you checked that the ram is still okay.
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| 10:59 | <ltspuser_37> how can I check??
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| 10:59 | is booting...
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| 10:59 | But it's very slow...
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| 11:00 | <Hyperbyte> markit, meh, I'd still rather keep it as basic as possible... virt-manager is pretty clean when it comes to interface and machine management. All the other features you mentioned I don't plan on using.
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| 11:00 | <ltspuser_37> and if I go to youtube the session freeze
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| 11:01 | <Hyperbyte> ltspuser_37, there are several boot disks that allow you to run a memory test.
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| 11:02 | http://www.memtest.org/ for example
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| 11:02 | Wouldn't hurt to verify that the memory is still okay.
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| 11:02 | <ltspuser_37> ok
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| 11:02 | I will test...
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| 11:08 | <ltspuser_37> I have testes in another terminal and it's giving the same error...
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| 11:09 | I don't think it's a ram problem...
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| 11:10 | I think it's the nbd
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| 11:13 | because the error is "exported driver is too big for me. get a 64-bit machine :-("
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| 11:17 | <Hyperbyte> ltspuser_37, wait a second. You said earlier the problem was only with 1 terminal, not with all of them.
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| 11:17 | Which is it?
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| 11:21 | <knipwim> ltspuser_37: can you do the nbd-client command from another client, manually?
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| 11:22 | so you can test if it's an initramfs problem or not
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| 11:23 | <ltspuser_37> yes
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| 11:23 | I can try
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| 11:23 | The problem is with this terminals...
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| 11:24 | the LT1600
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| 11:24 | with terminals from other brand works fine...
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| 11:25 | <knipwim> you don't have another computer?
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| 11:25 | like a laptop or something
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| 11:26 | you don't have to boot from nbd to see if the command works
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| 11:27 | <ltspuser_37> I ran the command on the same terminal but manually
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| 11:27 | must be with other terminal??
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| 11:27 | <knipwim> no
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| 11:27 | <ltspuser_37> when I ran manually gives the same error...
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| 11:27 | <knipwim> to be clear, which command did you ran? on what term? (mem)
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| 11:27 | <ltspuser_37> so I think it's definetly nbd
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| 11:28 | I ran on the same LT1600 in tty2 and the command was nbd-client 192.168.69.212 -N ltsp /dev/nbd0
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| 11:29 | <knipwim> that worked?
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| 11:29 | <ltspuser_37> no
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| 11:29 | gives me the same error
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| 11:29 | and I ran again and the size is different
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| 11:29 | but it's giving the same error
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| 11:29 | always
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| 11:30 | <knipwim> but it works on a terminal with more memory?
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| 11:30 | <ltspuser_37> let me explain...
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| 11:30 | sorry for my english
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| 11:31 | <knipwim> no problem
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| 11:31 | <ltspuser_37> on this terminal it's working... but on boot appears this error...
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| 11:31 | with a better terminal this error doesn't appear
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| 11:34 | <knipwim> both with the same image/kernel/initramfs?
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| 11:34 | <ltspuser_37> yes
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| 11:35 | <knipwim> hmm
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| 11:36 | than i'm clueless
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| 11:37 | <ltspuser_37> couldn't be the same problem from the page that I post?
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| 11:37 | <knipwim> perhaps put in another 128mb in the client and see what happens
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| 11:37 | <ltspuser_37> with that command?
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| 11:37 | <knipwim> nope
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| 11:37 | <ltspuser_37> where I can see that command??
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| 11:37 | <knipwim> that was a specific dracut problem
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| 11:38 | <knipwim> the command that dracut issues was different than the one in the terminal
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| 11:38 | this one: nbd-client 192.168.69.212 '-N ltsp' /dev/nbd0 (with quotes)
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| 11:38 | so the command was wrong, resulting in the error
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| 11:39 | the error itself didn't have anything to do with the problem
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| 11:39 | now afk for a moment ...
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| 11:40 | <Hyperbyte> Some mailing list threads suggest this may be a problem with name-based exports.
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| 11:41 | Oh, that's knipwim's thread again
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| 11:42 | Right, nevermind. :/
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| 12:15 | <ltspuser_37> What is "saned"?
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| 12:16 | when my terminal boots doesn't show the login console
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| 12:16 | the last message is "saned disabed: edit /etc/default/saned"
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| 12:19 | <Hyperbyte> saned is scanning daemon
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| 12:19 | Disabled by default
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| 12:25 | <alkisg> ltspuser_37: if you're seeing the nbd problem AND then the client boots, then the problem is related to NBD swap, not to the nbd root partition
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| 12:26 | You can verify this by getting a local xterm on the client and running `free`
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| 12:26 | Clients with more RAM don't automatically get swap, that's why you're seeing that only with this client
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| 12:27 | So the answer is, create a proper swap.conf:
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| 12:27 | $ cat /etc/nbd-server/conf.d/swap.conf
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| 12:27 | [swap]
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| 12:27 | exportname = /tmp/nbd-swap/%s
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| 12:27 | prerun = nbdswapd %s
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| 12:27 | postrun = rm -f %s
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| 12:27 | Btw, the -N parameter to nbd-client in Ubuntu is :ltsp_i386, not ltsp
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| 12:28 | That's why you were seeing problems when you tried it manually
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| 13:10 | <Hyperbyte> Wow
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| 13:10 | alkisg nailed it!
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| 13:10 | I said it before, but I'll say it again:
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| 13:10 | !alkisg
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| 13:10 | <ltsp> alkisg: The LTSP oracle. Our beacon of hope in the world of LTSP. With the guidance of this divine emperor, we shall prevail.
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| 13:22 | * markit subscribes this statement | |
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| 13:39 | <ltspuser_37> ok alkisg. I will try with that conf... I'm goingo to create the swap.conf file. Do I need to put NBD_SWAP in lts.conf?
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| 13:45 | <ltspuser_62> alkisg are you here
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| 13:45 | !
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| 14:11 | <ltspuser_37> I don't know why but the kernel start giving IRQ errors
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| 14:23 | I have found the solution for this errors...
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| 14:24 | but alkisk the swap didn't work
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| 14:24 | I just need to create the swap.conf??
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| 14:24 | <work_alkisg> ltspuser_37: you need to restart the nbd-server in order to read any new configuration you've made
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| 14:24 | work_alkisg is now known as alkisg | |
| 14:24 | <alkisg> You don't need NBD_SWAP in lts.conf, no
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| 14:25 | It's enabled automatically for low-RAM clients
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| 14:25 | ltspuser_37: note that when you restart nbd-server, the clients need to be rebooted
| |
| 14:25 | <ltspuser_37> ok
| |
| 14:25 | ok
| |
| 14:25 | let me try
| |
| 14:25 | thks
| |
| 14:25 | ;)
| |
| 14:26 | <alkisg> ltspuser_37: how did you install ltsp? You were supposed to have swap.conf automatically
| |
| 14:27 | <ltspuser_37> I have followed the ubuntu tutorial
| |
| 14:27 | <alkisg> Which one?
| |
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| 14:28 | <ltspuser_37> I don't know which one
| |
| 14:28 | but I think I only installed ltsp-server...
| |
| 14:28 | <alkisg> Instead of ltsp-server-standalone? That might be why...
| |
| 14:29 | <ltspuser_37> root@srv-od-tectestes:/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386# dpkg -l | grep ltsp ii ltsp-server 5.3.7-0ubuntu2.2 Basic LTSP server environment ii ltsp-server-standalone 5.3.7-0ubuntu2.2 Complete LTSP server environment ii ltspfs 1.1-2 Fuse based remote filesystem for LTSP thin clients
| |
| 14:29 | I have the two installed
| |
| 14:29 | <alkisg> What's the output of this command? grep -r '' /etc/nbd-server
| |
| 14:29 | <ltspuser_37> it's working :D
| |
| 14:30 | <alkisg> Cool
| |
| 14:30 | <ltspuser_37> but I only don't know why is not showing the login...
| |
| 14:31 | in ctrl-alt-f1 shows the log and the last line is saned disabled;...
| |
| 14:31 | <alkisg> That's normal
| |
| 14:32 | Did it show the login screen before you created swap.conf?
| |
| 14:32 | <ltspuser_37> how can I show login instead?
| |
| 14:33 | no
| |
| 14:33 | but with the other terminal it shows...
| |
| 14:34 | <alkisg> !screen_02
| |
| 14:34 | <ltsp> screen_02: To get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using_a_shell_SCREEN
| |
| 14:34 | <alkisg> From that shell, type: lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA
| |
| 14:36 | <ltspuser_37> I already have a shell in screen_02
| |
| 14:37 | I went to screen_02 and the result of that command was the Geode controllers
| |
| 14:37 | <alkisg> $ lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA
| |
| 14:37 | 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation 82G33/G31 Express Integrated Graphics Controller [8086:29c2] (rev 10)
| |
| 14:37 | Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. P5KPL-VM Motherboard [1043:82b0]
| |
| 14:37 | Kernel driver in use: i915
| |
| 14:37 | We want the pci id and the kernel driver in use
| |
| 14:37 | [8086:29c2], i915
| |
| 14:39 | <ltspuser_37> VGA compatible controller[0300]: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] Geode LX Video
| |
| 14:39 | kernel modules: lxfb
| |
| 14:40 | [1022:2082]
| |
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| 14:46 | <ltspuser_37> and with this terminal if I open youtube and see a video the terminal freeze...
| |
| 14:47 | theres anything that I can do to increase the performance?
| |
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| 14:53 | <sbalneav> Morning all
| |
| 14:55 | <alkisg> Hi Scotty
| |
| 14:55 | ltspuser_37: I don't understand, how can you open youtube if X doesn't start?
| |
| 14:56 | <ltspuser_37> sorry
| |
| 14:56 | when I said login I mean the console login
| |
| 14:56 | not the ldm login...
| |
| 14:57 | <alkisg> Explain more please, mention what you have in lts.conf, what "logins" the other clients get and this one doesn't, etc
| |
| 14:57 | <ogra_> no, dont mention what you have in lts.conf, paste the full file to a pastebin :)
| |
| 14:57 | (instead of mentioning snippets only )
| |
| 14:58 | <ltspuser_37> ok
| |
| 14:59 | let me explain
| |
| 14:59 | lts.conf is the same for the two
| |
| 14:59 | <ogra_> right, so paste it
| |
| 14:59 | <ltspuser_37> when I use this cheaper terminals on the SCREEN_01
| |
| 14:59 | <ogra_> (to a pastebin)
| |
| 14:59 | !paste
| |
| 14:59 | <ltsp> paste: try !pastebot
| |
| 14:59 | <ogra_> !pastebot
| |
| 14:59 | <ltsp> pastebot: try !pastebin
| |
| 14:59 | <ogra_> LOL
| |
| 14:59 | !pastebin
| |
| 14:59 | <ltsp> pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
| |
| 15:00 | <ltspuser_37> don't appear the console's login
| |
| 15:00 | <alkisg> Ah ok, got it
| |
| 15:00 | <ogra_> you need SCREEN_02
| |
| 15:00 | <ltspuser_37> yes
| |
| 15:00 | <alkisg> ltspuser_37: the getty service is disabled to save ram, on low ram clients
| |
| 15:00 | You can re-enabled it with KEEP_SYSTEM_SERVICES=tty1
| |
| 15:01 | <ltspuser_37> where?
| |
| 15:01 | <alkisg> In lts.conf
| |
| 15:01 | <ltspuser_37> sorry
| |
| 15:01 | ok
| |
| 15:01 | let me try
| |
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| 15:12 | <ltspuser_37> it's working
| |
| 15:12 | you are the master :)
| |
| 15:12 | ltsp-update-image --arch=teste
| |
| 15:13 | I am using this command to create the image of the teste...
| |
| 15:13 | but he changes the tftpboot of all the images...
| |
| 15:13 | it's normal?
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| 15:15 | <ltspuser_37> I think if we provide the arch, only this arch should be created...
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| 15:15 | <alkisg> Yes, it's normal, we might fix it in the future
| |
| 15:17 | <ltspuser_37> ok
| |
| 15:17 | thank you very much
| |
| 15:18 | <alkisg> You're welcome
| |
| 15:18 | <ltspuser_37> now I'm researching to optimize the performance
| |
| 15:18 | because the ram of this terminal is very limited
| |
| 15:18 | <alkisg> ltsp-config lts.conf --overwrite
| |
| 15:19 | ...and see the generated lts.conf
| |
| 15:19 | Note it'll overwrite your current one
| |
| 15:19 | So keep a backup
| |
| 15:20 | <ltspuser_37> thank you ;)
| |
| 15:21 | but the generated lts.conf is a better conf?
| |
| 15:23 | and where should I run??
| |
| 15:23 | on the tftpserver?
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| 15:23 | <alkisg> Yes
| |
| 15:23 | It has LDM_DIRECTX=True, and also some notes about minimizing ram
| |
| 15:23 | Read them
| |
| 15:25 | <ltspuser_37> ok
| |
| 15:25 | thank you ;)
| |
| 15:27 | ltsp-config lts.conf --overwrite ltsp-config: command not found
| |
| 15:27 | I need to install some tool?
| |
| 15:29 | <alkisg> Did you run that on the ltsp server?
| |
| 15:29 | <ltspuser_37> yes
| |
| 15:29 | on ubuntu 12.04
| |
| 15:30 | I need to make any chroot?
| |
| 15:30 | <alkisg> $ dpkg -L ltsp-server|grep ltsp-config
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| 15:30 | /usr/sbin/ltsp-config
| |
| 15:30 | It's part of the ltsp server package
| |
| 15:31 | <ltspuser_37> dpkg -L ltsp-server|grep ltsp-config /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/SUSE_LINUX/037-kiwi-ltsp-configure-services
| |
| 15:32 | <alkisg> Ah sorry it appears that ltsp-config wasn't shipped with 12.04
| |
| 15:32 | <ltspuser_37> ok
| |
| 15:33 | no problem
| |
| 15:33 | <alkisg> !learn lts.conf-example as http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/view/head:/server/configs/lts.conf
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| 15:33 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
| |
| 15:33 | <alkisg> ltspuser_37: get it from there ^
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| 15:33 | <ltspuser_37> ok
| |
| 15:33 | thank you
| |
| 15:33 | only one question
| |
| 15:33 | the terminal don't have sound...
| |
| 15:33 | have you got any clue?
| |
| 15:33 | <alkisg> All of them, or just this one?
| |
| 15:34 | <ltspuser_37> just these clients...
| |
| 15:34 | the cheaper
| |
| 15:34 | :p
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| 15:35 | <alkisg> Try running alsamixer locally, does it see your sound card?
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| 15:37 | <ltspuser_37> ok
| |
| 15:37 | # A space separated list of services to disable on thin/fat clients. RM_SYSTEM_SERVICES="dnsmasq nbd-server" # An additional list of services to disable on thin clients only. RM_THIN_SYSTEM_SERVICES="qemu-kvm virtualbox" # Use any local swap partitions on the clients. USE_LOCAL_SWAP=True
| |
| 15:37 | you are talking about these options?
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| 15:38 | <alkisg> # For really low RAM clients, disable SOUND, LOCAL_APPS and LOCALDEV.
| |
| 15:38 | (or any of those that you don't need)
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| 15:38 | <ltspuser_37> but I need usb devices, sound
| |
| 15:38 | Local_apps I don't have
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| 15:39 | <alkisg> OK, only disable that one then, just for these clients
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| 15:40 | <ltspuser_37> ok
| |
| 15:40 | <thebwt> if there a reason that some application might get 127.0.0.2 for the local ip (we're using thick clienting)? We're trying to run a cluster computing thing that lends spare cycles when idle, but we cannot get it to connect to the central server.
| |
| 15:40 | <ltspuser_37> and the options that I post?? should I include them?
| |
| 15:40 | <alkisg> No, no need
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| 15:40 | <ltspuser_37> ok
| |
| 15:41 | thank you
| |
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| 15:43 | <ltspuser_37> And I can see some services that I don't need and don't start them
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| 15:43 | right?
| |
| 15:47 | <alkisg> Sure
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| 16:49 | <pzn> I use debian+ltsp for 8 clients. amd phenon2 2.6Ghz 4core, 8Gb RAM, 1Tb disk. I use it for 2 years. since software is becaming more "resource demanding", in the last months we noticed considerable slowness. people use openoffice / thunderbird / firefox / chrome daily.
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| 16:49 | how can I check which is a good server configuration for "quick user response" for 8 clients with this needs?
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| 16:53 | <ltspuser_37> I am having a problem with ubuntu's splash screen
| |
| 16:53 | ate the end appears a line in the splash "saned disabed: edit /etc/default/saned"
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| 16:54 | it appears right after the loading points of the splash screen...
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| 16:55 | <gkiagia> hi. I've setup ltsp on debian with diskless fat clients and I'm wondering about the proper setup of NBD swap files. All the available documentation mentions nbdswapd, which is apparently not used at all here (client runs nbd-client, which connects to the running nbd-server instance on the server - no nbdswapd anywhere). Is this expected?
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| 16:57 | <pzn> any documentation available for knowing server cpu/ram/etc resources needed?
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| 17:30 | <||cw> ltspuser_37: this would be an issue with ubuntu's saned package. you can report it on the ubuntu bug tracker, ignore it since it's harmless, or edit that file and enable saned
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| 17:30 | or a combination of the above
| |
| 17:32 | pzn: it's very workload dependent. resource sharing isn't as good as it used to be, especially with open office, mozilla, and google since they prefer to build using their own versions of libraries instead of the system ones. it's easier for them than trying to convince the system package maintainer to accept a patch or pull a new upstream.
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| 17:34 | <pzn> ||cw, ok, thanks... I understood that it is not easy to know. D do you have any "idea" if the configuration that I posted above is adequate for 8 clients?
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| 17:34 | <||cw> gkiagia: I've no idea for fat client specifics, but thin client rarely need swap so it's not setup by default
| |
| 17:35 | pzn: I don't. My workloads are limited to certain custom apps, kiosk style.
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| 17:35 | <pzn> ||cw, ok, tks!
| |
| 17:36 | ||cw, do you know that if I get a standalone computer (no ltsp), open all apps that I need, check RAM used, then multiply x8 to know how much RAM is perfect. since there are shared libs, I may need less than 8x RAM
| |
| 17:36 | is my way of thinking right?
| |
| 17:37 | <||cw> as a worst case, yes. what your people are doing with the apps do make a huge difference though, especially with web browsing.
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| 17:39 | <pzn> mmm... interesting... you mean blocking not-needed flash web apps (or other bahaviour like that) would help a lot, right?
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| 17:51 | <||cw> well, for example, I use flashblock and my total Chorme usage right now is 1.3GB
| |
| 17:52 | I'm sure that if I didn'thave 8GB ram it would drop some cache, but it's still non-shared usage.
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| 17:52 | chrome://memory-redirect/
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| 17:54 | <ltspuser_37> I put the terminal using a xrdp session
| |
| 17:55 | and the colours are strange...
| |
| 17:55 | maybe I need to channge in RDP_OPTIONS right?
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| 17:58 | <ale2s> hello, my epoptes not connect the terminal clients
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| 18:01 | <alkisg> ale2s: did you follow http://www.epoptes.org/installation to install it?
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| 18:01 | gkiagia: which debian version?
| |
| 18:03 | Hyperbyte, knipwim: a better link that prompts the ltspusers_* to enter a nickname: http://webchat.freenode.net/?nick=ltspuser_.&channels=ltsp&prompt=1
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| 18:10 | <gkiagia> alkisg: wheezy (testing)
| |
| 18:10 | <alkisg> gkiagia: check ltsp-config nbd-server, and /etc/nbd-server/conf.d/swap.conf
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| 18:12 | <gkiagia> alkisg: I've done this and the swap.conf is in place. the whole thing works, with the exception that the swap files are never removed from the server when clients shut down. I've read that nbdswapd is supposed to wrap nbd-server and remove the swap files later, but it doesn't seem to be in use
| |
| 18:14 | <alkisg> gkiagia: the problem is the client shutdown, it closes too fast without first disconnecting nbd, we've worked around it with a client service in ubuntu, not sure what happens in debian,
| |
| 18:14 | ...let me get you a related bug report...
| |
| 18:14 | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nbd/+bug/696454
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| 18:15 | <ale2s> only the users group epoptes can run the application?
| |
| 18:15 | <alkisg> gkiagia: That service disconnects swap nbd devices first, and finally the root nbd (which doesn't apply to debian as it uses nfs, but the swap part probably applies)
| |
| 18:16 | ale2s: yes
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| 18:19 | <ale2s> the users who are not part of the group only will be "audited"
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| 18:19 | <alkisg> Yes
| |
| 18:19 | gkiagia: this is the script that should disconnect nbd swap: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/view/head:/client/share/ltsp/nbd-disconnect
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| 18:20 | <ale2s> where ha check the logs for me because I'm not connecting to the users?
| |
| 18:21 | <alkisg> ale2s: are you using LTSP?
| |
| 18:21 | (thin clients, remotely booted)
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| 18:22 | <gkiagia> alkisg: debian seems to have this script, but the question is if it is ever called
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| 18:22 | <ale2s> UBUNTU 12.04
| |
| 18:22 | * gkiagia investigating | |
| 18:23 | <alkisg> ale2s: yes, but are your clients booted remotely from a server, or are they "normal" PCs, where you installed epoptes-client separately?
| |
| 18:23 | Do the clients have hard disks?
| |
| 18:23 | (and ubuntu installed on them?)
| |
| 18:24 | <ale2s> MY SERVER IS INSTALLED AND LTSP HAVE CLIENTS IN TERMINALS
| |
| 18:25 | <alkisg> ale2s: don't use capital letters please, use lowercase. Login to a client, open gnome-terminal, and run: epoptes-client
| |
| 18:26 | vagrantc: nbd-disconnect isn't called in debian, right? gkiagia says that nbd-swap files get left behind... when are those deleted? After 2 hours when the connection dies? Or never?
| |
| 18:28 | <gkiagia> alkisg: it seems to be called from the ltsp-client-core init script
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| 18:28 | <gkiagia> but it seems to be doing things wrong.. I'll do some tests
| |
| 18:28 | <alkisg> gkiagia: in ubuntu, that is in /etc/init/ltsp-client-core.conf, but debian doesn't use upstart
| |
| 18:28 | So if it's there on debian.... it won't run
| |
| 18:29 | <vagrantc> alkisg: dunno.
| |
| 18:29 | <ale2s> sorry
| |
| 18:29 | <vagrantc> gkiagia: if you could file a bug report, that would be great
| |
| 18:30 | gkiagia: don't have time to troubleshoot right now
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| 18:39 | <ale2s> now it worked, thank you
| |
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| 19:17 | <gkiagia> vagrantc: I found the bug. ENCRYPT_SWAP is enabled by default and nbd-disconnect doesn't deal with it properly (it doesn't disconnect the dm-crypt device from the nbd device before shutting down nbd-client). setting ENCRYPT_SWAP=False explicitly fixes it
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| 19:18 | where is your bug tracker?
| |
| 19:18 | <vagrantc> http://bugs.debian.org
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| 19:18 | gkiagia: i recommend using reportbug
| |
| 19:18 | as a front-end
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| 19:19 | <gkiagia> ah ok, I know. I was just asking if you want this bug in debian or somewhere upstream
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| 19:42 | <gkiagia> alkisg: solved my problem, thanks for the hints
| |
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| 19:42 | <alkisg> gkiagia: nice, just saw the irclogs
| |
| 19:43 | <vagrantc> gkiagia: it's a little of both, really
| |
| 19:44 | since each distro has an upstream developer for LTSP, there's not really as hard of an upstream line as with other projects
| |
| 19:45 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, can you e-mail the earlier link to me?
| |
| 19:45 | <alkisg> Sure
| |
| 19:45 | <Hyperbyte> My work address please, I'll take a look tomorrow
| |
| 19:45 | What happens if someone enters a username that is already in use?
| |
| 19:46 | <alkisg> Done
| |
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| 19:46 | <Hyperbyte> Thanks
| |
| 19:46 | <alkisg> Not sure, maybe they get a guest* name then
| |
| 19:46 | <Hyperbyte> Worth some investigating.
| |
| 19:46 | Alkis, this 389 Directory Server on RedHat is so awesome, and so insanely easy to set up
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| 19:47 | <alkisg> Nope, they get a _ at the end ;)
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| 19:47 | <Hyperbyte> I decided to just use /etc/passwd at the Radio Capelle LTSP setup, but switched to LDAP (389DS) now...
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| 19:47 | Even migrating existing systems is a piece of cake.
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| 19:48 | <alkisg> I wonder if ltsp could use the passwd ldap implementation, where the ldap database is /etc/passwd itself
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| 19:48 | <Hyperbyte> Why would you want that?
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| 19:48 | <alkisg> So that users can then continue to use the same user management tools they use now, without having to learn anything about ldap
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| 19:49 | <Hyperbyte> Ever tried administrating a 389 LDAP server?
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| 19:49 | * vagrantc has been rethinking LTSP's hacks to avoid using LDPA | |
| 19:49 | <vagrantc> LDAP
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| 19:49 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: nope, does it have a fixed schema for ldap users etc?
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| 19:49 | <Hyperbyte> Wait, I'll let you log in
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| 20:02 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: that was very neat, no wonder the ubuntu folks are looking to integrate it
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| 20:03 | Hyperbyte: what about mass user creation? Are there tools for that?
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| 20:03 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, probably.
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| 20:03 | You can just import .ldif files
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| 20:04 | Which are plain text, easily readable.
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| 20:04 | Basically:
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| 20:04 | [username]
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| 20:04 | attribute: value
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| 20:04 | <Hyperbyte> attribute: value
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| 20:04 | etc...
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| 20:04 | <alkisg> Are local users separated from ldap ones? E.g. can I use useradd and then see it in the ldap directory?
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| 20:04 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, no, LDAP is completely seperate.
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| 20:05 | <alkisg> So pam first try local login, and then searches for ldap users, makes sense...
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| 20:05 | <Hyperbyte> In fact, you can have local users with the same credentials or ID's as LDAP users... the priority LDAP has over /etc/passwd in nsswitch.conf determines which one has precedence
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| 20:05 | <alkisg> *tries
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| 20:05 | <Hyperbyte> So there are never conflicts.
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| 20:05 | <alkisg> Well, I hope other distros start making it at least easily available, and why not, in the future, maybe even preinstalled..
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| 20:06 | It could surely help with ltsp
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| 20:06 | <Hyperbyte> I think it's an awesome way to administrate user accounts
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| 20:06 | <alkisg> The clients don't get any significant overhead, right? No big services running...
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| 20:06 | <Hyperbyte> Traditionally LDAP is a bit tough, but the 389-console which I just showed you, really makes things very user friendly
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| 20:06 | No, clients have to run nscd I think for best result, caching server
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| 20:06 | But I suppose you could do without, especially in LTSP environment where clients are a goner anyways without the server.
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| 20:07 | <alkisg> Ah, so they can even use some ldap accounts when the server goes offline?
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| 20:07 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, it's so users don't stop existing immediately when the server reboots, and it's also so your server doesn't get queried constantly
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| 20:08 | <alkisg> Does it also provide for single sign on?
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| 20:08 | <Hyperbyte> With Fedora it's authconfig --enable-cache to get nscd in between... if you leave that out, there's no daemon running
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| 20:08 | What do you mean, 'single sign on'?
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| 20:08 | ?
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| 20:08 | <alkisg> It's when you enter your credentials once, and they persist across processes or even different machines
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| 20:08 | <Hyperbyte> Does that work with PAM?
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| 20:09 | <alkisg> E.g. I logged in to the LTSP server (with LDAP), why would I have to enter my password again to mount a samba share, etc
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| 20:09 | <Hyperbyte> If so, then it works with LDAP.
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| 20:09 | <alkisg> I think it's a different component but yes it goes through the pam stack
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| 20:09 | <Hyperbyte> Well then it's LDAP compatible. LDAP is very mature.
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| 20:09 | <Hyperbyte> And 389 DS just profits on the existing LDAP maturity to finally add a nice user interface and design people can understand easily. :)
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| 20:10 | <alkisg> Cool, I hope it gets widespread
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| 20:10 | <Hyperbyte> Yeah, I was pretty impressed with it
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| 20:10 | I had NIS before, with all kinds of problems left and right
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| 20:11 | Figured I'd try my hand at 389 DS, because I saw it recommended somewhere over NIS
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| 20:11 | <alkisg> Btw were you able to connect an ubuntu client to it?
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| 20:11 | <Hyperbyte> Sure
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| 20:11 | My terminal server at work runs on the 389-DS
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| 20:11 | So will the one at Radio Capelle, once everybody logs out and goes home. ;-)
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| 20:11 | <alkisg> :)
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| 20:11 | <Hyperbyte> At work I also tie in mail accounts on my dedicated server into the 389 LDAP directory
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| 20:12 | <Hyperbyte> I have one LDAP domain "recreatie-zorg.nl"
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| 20:12 | With two servers below it, "rotterdam" and "germany"
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| 20:12 | <vagrantc> Hyperbyte: recommendations for first pointers on this 389DS?
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| 20:12 | <Hyperbyte> Rotterdam is master server, with all accounts... it replicates to Germany, where the mail/websites are
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| 20:12 | * alkisg has also read https://fedorahosted.org/sssd/ at some point... | |
| 20:13 | <Hyperbyte> Replication so that, when Rotterdam goes down (for maintenance or otherwise), the mail accounts are still there
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| 20:13 | vagrantc, http://directory.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Main_Page
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| 20:13 | <vagrantc> it's a GUI?
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| 20:13 | <Hyperbyte> It's Fedora sponsored project. I think people have ported it to Ubuntu though.
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| 20:13 | vagrantc, no. It's most awesome feature is the GUI. But it's a whole directory server.
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| 20:14 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: is it possible to replicate only some part of the users? E.g. we do have an ldap user database for all greek students, could we only extract the users for each specific school and replicate those locally to the school ltsp server?
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| 20:14 | <Hyperbyte> It's slapd, directory server, slapd-admin, administration interface for directory server, and 389-console, GUI console for connecting to the directory administration server
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| 20:14 | alkisg, you could create several LDAP domains and replicate them to specific servers I'm sure.
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| 20:15 | * alkisg wishes the ministry will agree to that at some point... it will make user management ...not a school's work | |
| 20:16 | <vagrantc> Hyperbyte: it's not just a frontend to openldap?
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| 20:17 | oh, it's already in Debian wheezy
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| 20:18 | er, sid only :(
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| 20:20 | <Hyperbyte> vagrantc, no, it's not. :)
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| 20:20 | <vagrantc> it was uploaded shortly before the wheezy freeze :(
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| 20:22 | <Hyperbyte> vagrantc, http://directory.fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAQ#How_is_389_different_from_OpenLDAP.3F
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| 20:22 | Specifically: http://directory.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features
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| 20:23 | Multi-master replication would be pretty cool for Alkis's schools... you can set both the local school server as master, as well as your centralized server.... so you can administer accounts on both. People could change passwords locally, you could add/remove accounts centrally
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| 20:24 | <vagrantc> Hyperbyte: i read that, but it doesn't really tell me anything :)
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| 20:25 | anyways, we're looking to LDAPify at freegeek, good to have some leads.
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| 20:25 | <dead_inside> Hyperbyte openldap also supports multiple master servers
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| 20:26 | <Hyperbyte> dead_inside, yep. :)
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| 20:28 | Pretty awesome stuff all around. Multi-master replication is pretty powerful.
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| 20:28 | <dead_inside> and fun
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| 20:30 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: did you read about http://freeipa.org/page/Main_Page ?
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| 20:30 | I think ubuntu wants to integrate that one (along with 389 of course...)
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