IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 20 July 2011 (all times are UTC)
| 00:05 | <pmatulis> does ltsp cluster really work? the ubuntu documentation is pretty weak
| |
| 00:12 | Lns has left IRC (Lns!~lns@pdpc/supporter/professional/lns, Quit: Φ) | |
| 00:38 | <stgraber> pmatulis: it does
| |
| 01:24 | <pmatulis> stgraber: i saw you wrote something using openvz. otherwise i haven't found any vanilla documentation
| |
| 01:28 | brunolambert has joined IRC (brunolambert!~brunolamb@gw-sherb.rlnx.com) | |
| 01:34 | otavio has left IRC (otavio!~otavio@debian/developer/otavio, Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | |
| 01:36 | Parker955_Away is now known as Parker955 | |
| 01:37 | alkisg has joined IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg) | |
| 01:48 | staffencasa has left IRC (staffencasa!~staffenca@128-193-144-194.oregonstate.edu, Ping timeout: 252 seconds) | |
| 02:08 | brunolambert has left IRC (brunolambert!~brunolamb@gw-sherb.rlnx.com, Ping timeout: 260 seconds) | |
| 03:07 | Parker955 is now known as Parker955_Away | |
| 03:20 | alkisg has left IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg, Quit: Leaving.) | |
| 03:20 | ball has joined IRC (ball!~shari@c-50-129-25-121.hsd1.il.comcast.net) | |
| 03:28 | Parker955_Away is now known as Parker955 | |
| 03:49 | cyberorg has left IRC (cyberorg!~cyberorg@opensuse/member/Cyberorg, Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | |
| 03:52 | cyberorg has joined IRC (cyberorg!~cyberorg@opensuse/member/Cyberorg) | |
| 04:22 | ball has left IRC (ball!~shari@c-50-129-25-121.hsd1.il.comcast.net, Disconnected by services) | |
| 05:52 | sunscreen has left IRC (sunscreen!~sunscreen@unaffiliated/factor45, Ping timeout: 255 seconds) | |
| 06:04 | sunscreen has joined IRC (sunscreen!~sunscreen@unaffiliated/factor45) | |
| 06:50 | drdata has joined IRC (drdata!~drdata@pool-173-57-189-158.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) | |
| 06:51 | drdata has left IRC (drdata!~drdata@pool-173-57-189-158.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) | |
| 06:58 | gnunux has joined IRC (gnunux!~emmanuel@194.167.18.244) | |
| 06:59 | drdata has joined IRC (drdata!~drdata@pool-173-57-189-158.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) | |
| 06:59 | drdata has left IRC (drdata!~drdata@pool-173-57-189-158.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) | |
| 07:05 | <gnunux> hi
| |
| 07:06 | pingufan has joined IRC (pingufan!~rainer@goliath.hantsch.co.at) | |
| 07:08 | drdata has joined IRC (drdata!~drdata@pool-173-57-189-158.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) | |
| 07:08 | drdata has left IRC (drdata!~drdata@pool-173-57-189-158.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) | |
| 07:08 | <pingufan> Hello. I am a newcomer to LTSP. I actually use openSuSE and therefore kiwi-ltsp, but as in that IRC nobody is responding, I ask here.
| |
| 07:10 | I have two clients (server-only apps), but I need to connect local memories (USB-Sticks, i.e.) and USB-RS232 converters to clients and use them from the host.
| |
| 07:10 | How can I do that?
| |
| 07:10 | If somebody could guide me, please?
| |
| 07:23 | pingufan has left IRC (pingufan!~rainer@goliath.hantsch.co.at, Ping timeout: 264 seconds) | |
| 07:38 | alkisg has joined IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg) | |
| 07:41 | bobby_C has joined IRC (bobby_C!~bobby@188.20.161.210) | |
| 07:49 | <Hyperbyte> Morning alkisg :)
| |
| 07:49 | <alkisg> Good morning Hyperbyte, #ltspers
| |
| 08:04 | pingufan has joined IRC (pingufan!~rainer@goliath.hantsch.co.at) | |
| 08:07 | alkisg has left IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg, Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | |
| 08:10 | cyberorg has left IRC (cyberorg!~cyberorg@opensuse/member/Cyberorg, Ping timeout: 264 seconds) | |
| 08:20 | dobber has joined IRC (dobber!~dobber@213.169.45.222) | |
| 08:23 | bobby_C has left IRC (bobby_C!~bobby@188.20.161.210, Quit: Goin' down hard) | |
| 08:25 | Parker955 is now known as Parker955_Away | |
| 08:26 | cyberorg has joined IRC (cyberorg!~cyberorg@opensuse/member/Cyberorg) | |
| 08:28 | alkisg has joined IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg) | |
| 08:32 | alkisg has left IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg, Ping timeout: 255 seconds) | |
| 08:38 | layus has joined IRC (layus!c1be900b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.190.144.11) | |
| 08:42 | otavio has joined IRC (otavio!~otavio@conference/debconf/x-zijvcwxcwsagksgw) | |
| 08:42 | otavio has joined IRC (otavio!~otavio@debian/developer/otavio) | |
| 08:46 | alkisg has joined IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg) | |
| 08:56 | sunscreen has left IRC (sunscreen!~sunscreen@unaffiliated/factor45, Ping timeout: 255 seconds) | |
| 09:06 | <alkisg> pingufan: local usb sticks should work out of the box, with ltspfs, without you configuring anything
| |
| 09:07 | For usb-rs232 converters, I'd suggest using some localapp, or trying that kernel module that was promising to do usb via ip (unrelated to ltsp)
| |
| 09:09 | sunscreen has joined IRC (sunscreen!~sunscreen@unaffiliated/factor45) | |
| 09:37 | andygraybeal has left IRC (andygraybeal!~andy.gray@obsidian.casanueva.com, Read error: Connection reset by peer) | |
| 10:07 | <pingufan> alkisg: Sorry, I was afk for some time.
| |
| 10:08 | Can you, please, explain to me how I access a locally plugged in USB stick when all apps (including KDE itself) are running on the server?
| |
| 10:09 | You must know I am doing my very first steps with LTSP and have no useful manual.
| |
| 10:12 | <alkisg> pingufan: if you don't specifically want KDE, I suggest that you use Gnome, LTSP is more integrated with it. For KDE, I think that you should be seeing the USB stick contents in some subdirectory of /media/
| |
| 10:12 | For Gnome, they show up in the "places" menu
| |
| 10:15 | <pingufan> Nono, I need KDE. I am changing a whole office from Windows -> Linux, and the users prefer a GUI similar to Windows. Ergo: KDE
| |
| 10:15 | <alkisg> OK
| |
| 10:15 | So check in /media, you should be seeing the stick contents there
| |
| 10:16 | <pingufan> When I look in /media, I look into the server's /media -- and that one is empty.
| |
| 10:16 | <alkisg> And you have a stick inserted on the client? what filesystem does it use?
| |
| 10:16 | vfat?
| |
| 10:17 | <pingufan> Yes. And the stick is visible, when I plug it into the server
| |
| 10:17 | <alkisg> Which distro/version are you using?
| |
| 10:17 | <pingufan> openSuSE 11.4 with kiwi-ltsp.
| |
| 10:18 | <alkisg> ah, I thought you said you moved away from opensuse - but obviously you meant only the irc channel
| |
| 10:18 | No idea, their architecture is a bit different from upstream ltsp
| |
| 10:18 | <pingufan> But at #kiwi-ltsp there are only 5 people, and noone is really interested in switching its brain on - appears to me.
| |
| 10:19 | <alkisg> And here we usually point people to #kiwi-ltsp, because it's different and we don't know how to support it :)
| |
| 10:19 | <pingufan> From my point of understanding, the client should place/map the locally connected media to the server. Or am I wrong?
| |
| 10:19 | <alkisg> Yes, ltspfs is the component that does that
| |
| 10:20 | Also, on previous ubuntu versions, the user had to be in the 'fuse' group, I don't know if that relates at all to opensuse
| |
| 10:20 | I don't know how to help you, I don't even know how to get a local root shell on an opensuse thin client
| |
| 10:24 | <pingufan> Ok, but this is easily to verify. I simply look if there is such a group at all.
| |
| 10:25 | How is client's audio handled? I read that it should work out of the box, but I only hear a "knock" when the client initializes its sound system, but no KDE boot sound after login.
| |
| 10:26 | <alkisg> With pulseaudio. Previously kde had some problems with the pulseaudio+phonon integration, but in recent ubuntu versions it works out of the box on kde too.
| |
| 10:26 | Again, no idea about opensuse.
| |
| 10:33 | <pingufan> You are still much more help than you possibly believe.
| |
| 10:34 | I have absolutely no idea where to start, you can at least point me to something.
| |
| 10:41 | <Hyperbyte> :)
| |
| 10:42 | pingufan, if you stick around long enough you'll bump into someone who can help you with OpenSUSE no doubt. :)
| |
| 10:43 | <pingufan> :D That's a little bit too unsure. Would like to get this system installed and away from my desk where I do first tests right now.
| |
| 10:44 | <Hyperbyte> I know the feeling. It's a bit difficult to get support for non-Ubuntu distros.
| |
| 10:45 | Took me a while to get LTSP running properly on Fedora too. :)
| |
| 10:46 | <pingufan> Mhm... But the last thing I'll touch is Ubuntu. My CNC mill runs emc2 on Ubuntu... Uhhh.
| |
| 10:46 | <Hyperbyte> Well, to be honest with you - I ditched Fedora a while back in favor of Ubuntu, on my LTSP server at least.
| |
| 10:47 | <pingufan> Sure. But I cannot start doing that and finally end up in having to support multiple distros instead of one.
| |
| 10:47 | <Hyperbyte> It wasn't a recommendation. :)
| |
| 10:47 | <pingufan> I know. :P
| |
| 10:49 | It is a pain to use #kiwi-ltsp Absolutely no responses to any question and - whow - 7 additional users...
| |
| 10:50 | <Hyperbyte> pingufan, what do you expect? These are people who don't get paid to support you, you know.
| |
| 10:50 | They're just users, like you. Well some are developers, but you get my point.
| |
| 10:51 | If you think OpenSUSE LTSP support could be better, I suggest you stick around there and here, and help others with problems, after you get your LTSP working. :)
| |
| 10:52 | <pingufan> This is the problem. I am a total novice and need help for my first steps.
| |
| 10:52 | <Hyperbyte> Didn't find anything useful on the Kiwi LTSP wiki?
| |
| 10:53 | <pingufan> I found dead links and such.
| |
| 10:53 | A promising "How to configure" link, which ends in a dead page.
| |
| 10:53 | <Hyperbyte> I guess you better sign up for an account there then and fix those. ;)
| |
| 10:54 | <pingufan> :)
| |
| 10:54 | <Hyperbyte> You are using this wiki, right? http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:KIWI-LTSP
| |
| 10:55 | <pingufan> Well, the LTSP idea is really phantastic. It extends the old idea of terminals to a perfect GUI system. -- Great. Exactly what I want.
| |
| 10:55 | otavio has left IRC (otavio!~otavio@debian/developer/otavio, Ping timeout: 246 seconds) | |
| 10:56 | <pingufan> Exactly. And now scroll down to Guides and click on "configuration guide". :/
| |
| 10:56 | <Hyperbyte> And then?
| |
| 10:56 | That's not a dead link.
| |
| 10:57 | <pingufan> No. But pages coming after that...
| |
| 10:57 | Local Media on Client WIKI
| |
| 10:58 | <Hyperbyte> http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LocalMedia
| |
| 10:58 | Old document though.
| |
| 10:58 | No longer relevant. :)
| |
| 10:59 | <pingufan> Aaaaahhhh --- Need a description which guides me step by step
| |
| 11:00 | <Hyperbyte> Yeah... like I said, you need to stick around for a while. ;-)
| |
| 11:01 | <pingufan> This is my only chance. You don't think there is a really good PDF which describes everything?
| |
| 11:01 | <alkisg> You can also try the ltsp-discuss mailing list, I think a few times people answer kiwi-ltsp-related questions there.
| |
| 11:02 | But here in the #ltsp irc, I don't think I've ever seen someone getting help about kiwi-ltsp. Mostly they're just pointed to #kiwi-ltsp
| |
| 11:03 | Truth be told, most people getting help here either use debian or ubuntu
| |
| 11:04 | <pingufan> I know. The bad news is: in #kiwi-ltsp there is noobe answering. I stick around....
| |
| 11:12 | Hmm - I looked into the package management of openSuSE and searched for "ltsp". I see a ltspfs with description "Fuse based remote filesystem for LTSP server and thin clients LtspFS is a remote filesystem consisting of two parts: 1) A network server daemon that runs on the LTSP terminal. 2) A FUSE module that runs in userspace on the server, that connects with the daemon on the client." and a not installed "ltspfsd", a daemon for the client. Is
| |
| 11:12 | that one possibly required?
| |
| 11:13 | <Hyperbyte> ltspfsd should be installed in your chroot and probably already is. It shouldn't be installed on the server itself.
| |
| 11:15 | <pingufan> In worst case I uninstall it again.
| |
| 11:15 | <Hyperbyte> ltspfsd is 1) and ltspfs is 2)
| |
| 11:15 | eh, read what you just pasted please and realize that it'd be a complete waste of your time. :)
| |
| 11:21 | <pingufan> You are right.
| |
| 11:25 | andygraybeal has joined IRC (andygraybeal!~andy.gray@obsidian.casanueva.com) | |
| 11:25 | <Hyperbyte> Morning Andy. :)
| |
| 11:25 | Trixboxer has joined IRC (Trixboxer!~Trixboxer@office.supportdepartment.net) | |
| 11:30 | pingufan has left IRC (pingufan!~rainer@goliath.hantsch.co.at, Remote host closed the connection) | |
| 11:39 | alkisg has left IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg, Ping timeout: 255 seconds) | |
| 11:40 | <andygraybeal> morning Hyperbyte :)))
| |
| 11:44 | drinkin icey coffee!
| |
| 11:45 | <Hyperbyte> :>
| |
| 11:45 | Rewriting my entire session handler (PHP) for all our websites and local CRM
| |
| 11:51 | alkisg has joined IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg) | |
| 11:52 | alkisg has left IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg, Client Quit) | |
| 11:55 | Gremble has joined IRC (Gremble!~Ben@cpc12-aztw24-2-0-cust146.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) | |
| 11:59 | <andygraybeal> omg your a bull!
| |
| 12:00 | that is awesome. i've added 2 physical machines to my setup... but haven't added some of their vital stats to my monitoring app... so i'm working on that.
| |
| 12:02 | bsd meets dell openmanage.. must learn!
| |
| 12:03 | <Hyperbyte> =)
| |
| 12:03 | <andygraybeal> or something.. i need raid, and other sensor stats.
| |
| 12:04 | MorningSon has joined IRC (MorningSon!~MorningSo@cpe-70-117-27-48.satx.res.rr.com) | |
| 12:12 | vagrantc has joined IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@conference/debconf/x-wgrgthbbbtrihjpf) | |
| 12:16 | toscalix has joined IRC (toscalix!~toscalix@77.208.146.50) | |
| 12:22 | toscalix has left IRC (toscalix!~toscalix@77.208.146.50, Remote host closed the connection) | |
| 12:22 | toscalix has joined IRC (toscalix!~toscalix@77.208.146.50) | |
| 12:23 | vagrantc has left IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@conference/debconf/x-wgrgthbbbtrihjpf, Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | |
| 12:25 | vagrantc has joined IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@conference/debconf/x-dqhsjipflbzlkdyq) | |
| 12:25 | brunolambert has joined IRC (brunolambert!~brunolamb@nat/revolutionlinux/x-akeajlsfnnxsyfxb) | |
| 12:26 | otavio has joined IRC (otavio!~otavio@static-50-142-241-92.customer.blic.net) | |
| 12:26 | otavio has joined IRC (otavio!~otavio@debian/developer/otavio) | |
| 12:34 | dead_inside has joined IRC (dead_inside!~dead_insi@76.75.3.174) | |
| 12:48 | anivair has joined IRC (anivair!~joe@69.58.115.123) | |
| 12:57 | pimpministerp has joined IRC (pimpministerp!~ppouliot@64.119.153.82) | |
| 12:58 | Gremble has left IRC (Gremble!~Ben@cpc12-aztw24-2-0-cust146.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com, Quit: I Leave) | |
| 12:58 | primeministerp has left IRC (primeministerp!~ppouliot@64.119.153.82, Read error: Connection reset by peer) | |
| 13:02 | <anivair> I had an issue just a few minutes ago where people started getting booted out of my ltsp server (they couldn't log in all the way, connection would reset, etc)
| |
| 13:02 | I rebooted, and it seems fine now, but any suggestions for logs I should watch if it starts happening again?
| |
| 13:03 | they're about to start logging back in, os if I can keep an eye on a file to gain some insight, i will do that
| |
| 13:03 | otavio has left IRC (otavio!~otavio@debian/developer/otavio, Ping timeout: 255 seconds) | |
| 13:11 | <Hyperbyte> anivair, 'tail -f /var/log/syslog and 'dmesg' are usually good bets
| |
| 13:12 | vagrantc has left IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@conference/debconf/x-dqhsjipflbzlkdyq, Ping timeout: 258 seconds) | |
| 13:12 | <anivair> gracias
| |
| 13:14 | vagrantc has joined IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@conference/debconf/x-wouwdoujmagrxgma) | |
| 13:17 | tastle73 has joined IRC (tastle73!~tastle73@173-9-119-118-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) | |
| 13:29 | pimpministerp is now known as primeministerp | |
| 13:32 | nosedrum has joined IRC (nosedrum!~quassel@92.103.117.4) | |
| 13:34 | leio_ has joined IRC (leio_!~leio@gentoo/developer/leio) | |
| 13:36 | leio has left IRC (leio!~leio@gentoo/developer/leio, Ping timeout: 276 seconds) | |
| 13:39 | <anivair> "Unable to determine session: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken."
| |
| 13:39 | Anyone have any ideas what that is?
| |
| 13:40 | I just started getting it in /var/log/syslog
| |
| 13:41 | <Hyperbyte> Is that on the client or on the server?
| |
| 13:42 | <anivair> server
| |
| 13:44 | and I'm getting them a lot
| |
| 13:44 | about every 10 seconds
| |
| 13:45 | I'm also getting drag on the server and a top shows the dbus-daemon sitting at 100% CPU
| |
| 13:47 | I'm also getting the occasional segfault
| |
| 13:47 | Jul 20 09:47:08 ltsp1 kernel: [ 3487.433029] npviewer.bin[27692]: segfault at 418 ip 00000000f608ad36 sp 00000000fff13c68 error 6 in libflashplayer.so[f5e1d000+b5f000]
| |
| 13:48 | alkisg has joined IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg) | |
| 13:48 | <anivair> 108 users on
| |
| 13:50 | I'm not sure if I've just got too many users on or what
| |
| 13:50 | any way I can tell what my practical user limit might be?
| |
| 13:51 | cause I'm gettign flooded with those messages now
| |
| 13:51 | and the only change from yesterday to today is about 10 more people on the server (afaik)
| |
| 13:52 | <vagrantc> load indicator
| |
| 13:52 | cat /proc/loadavg
| |
| 13:52 | Hyperbyte has left IRC (Hyperbyte!jan@middelkoop.cc, Ping timeout: 260 seconds) | |
| 13:52 | <vagrantc> should be less than or equal to 1 * number of CPU (cores)
| |
| 13:52 | otherwise it's overloaded in some way
| |
| 13:53 | <anivair> 4.00 3.80 4.33 3/3879 28914
| |
| 13:53 | it's quad core
| |
| 13:53 | <vagrantc> that doesn't look *too* bad
| |
| 13:54 | <anivair> when users try to log in they get a "no response from server" message and the think client just resets
| |
| 13:55 | <vagrantc> what do you get when you try to ssh to the server manually?
| |
| 13:55 | <anivair> I've got one open from when it booted up and that's working.
| |
| 13:55 | a new one is hanging
| |
| 13:56 | looks like it's about to time out
| |
| 13:56 | <vagrantc> ldm uses ssh to log in... so if ssh doesn't respond ...
| |
| 13:56 | <anivair> right
| |
| 13:56 | any suggestions?
| |
| 13:56 | I should have unlimited users on ssh
| |
| 13:57 | <vagrantc> how many concurrent users?
| |
| 13:57 | <anivair> and almost 110 of them got logged in, so I know it's running
| |
| 13:57 | Right now I have 108
| |
| 13:58 | <alkisg> There was a problem with dbus and >1024 open files - distro/version/updates?
| |
| 13:58 | Hyperbyte has joined IRC (Hyperbyte!jan@middelkoop.cc) | |
| 13:58 | <alkisg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/381063
| |
| 13:59 | On a multiuser system with many desktop users, the system dbus-daemon process can easily exceed the 1024 open files allowed by the default ulimit. When it exceeds that, it goes into a tight loop, sucking up 100% processor, and nobody can log in.
| |
| 13:59 | <anivair> ubuntu 9.10
| |
| 13:59 | I'd say it's not 100% updated, cause I hate updating this server often
| |
| 13:59 | any suggestions on how to get around that?
| |
| 13:59 | <alkisg> That should be your problem then, I don't think the fix was backported
| |
| 13:59 | Read the bug report
| |
| 14:00 | <anivair> reading
| |
| 14:00 | (sorry, i didn't see that l ine)
| |
| 14:00 | <alkisg> On the first paragraph there's a WORKAROUND line :D
| |
| 14:02 | <anivair> will I need to reboot? I don't know if that's a live read file or a system param file
| |
| 14:02 | dlezcano has joined IRC (dlezcano!~dlezcano@AToulouse-159-1-4-177.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr) | |
| 14:02 | <anivair> hmm ... look like it'll want a reboot (unless it's just not doing anything)
| |
| 14:03 | still can't ssh in
| |
| 14:03 | I'll probably reboot and check back in
| |
| 14:03 | Hyperbyte has left IRC (Hyperbyte!jan@middelkoop.cc, Read error: Operation timed out) | |
| 14:03 | <anivair> thanks for the pointer, though
| |
| 14:05 | Hyperbyte has joined IRC (Hyperbyte!jan@middelkoop.cc) | |
| 14:06 | <Hyperbyte> anivair, 108 users on one server?
| |
| 14:06 | That's badass!
| |
| 14:06 | :)
| |
| 14:07 | What are your server's specs?
| |
| 14:09 | Hyperbyte has left IRC (Hyperbyte!jan@middelkoop.cc, Client Quit) | |
| 14:09 | Hyperbyte has joined IRC (Hyperbyte!jan@88.198.109.86) | |
| 14:11 | <alkisg> anivair: no reboot needed, you should be able to set the limits live from the command line
| |
| 14:19 | alkisg has left IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg, Quit: Leaving.) | |
| 14:20 | toscalix has left IRC (toscalix!~toscalix@77.208.146.50, Remote host closed the connection) | |
| 14:22 | <Ghidorah> Does anyone know how to remove sessions from the LDM session list?
| |
| 14:44 | <anivair> hrm ... I edited that file and i'm seeing no effect. is that bad?>
| |
| 14:44 | or is there a system variable that I need to set for now?
| |
| 14:45 | (as for specs, we're running a quad core dell poweredge with disklessworkstation thin clients for the most part)
| |
| 14:46 | <vagrantc> Ghidorah: you could run a hacked ldminfod that didn't return the sessions you wanted
| |
| 14:47 | <Ghidorah> vagrantc: My goal is to only allow ubuntu-classic.
| |
| 14:48 | would the different ldminfod allow for this?
| |
| 14:48 | <vagrantc> it could do whatever you make it do
| |
| 14:50 | <anivair> (also, i'm down to 47 users now and I'm still seeing the dbus go nts. maybe it just get hung? I'll reboot and see)
| |
| 14:50 | nobody's getting any work done anyway
| |
| 14:52 | <Hyperbyte> anivair, unrelated to your problem, but how much bandwith does your server have, and how much does it use for +100 clients? If you don't mind me asking, that is. :)
| |
| 14:52 | <anivair> it has a fill gig
| |
| 14:52 | not 100% sure how much it uses
| |
| 14:52 | I can check in a bit
| |
| 14:53 | <Hyperbyte> One gigabit?
| |
| 14:53 | <anivair> yes
| |
| 14:54 | I used to run it on a standard 10/100 connection, but the 1000 is a touch faster (not a huge amount faster, oddly)
| |
| 14:54 | <Hyperbyte> You have 100 times remote X over one gigabit connection?
| |
| 14:55 | <anivair> Is that hugely abnormal? It's never been a problem before.
| |
| 14:55 | honestly, they don't do that much
| |
| 14:55 | most of their day is spend in a text based ssh session
| |
| 14:55 | <Hyperbyte> I dunno, I just assumed it'd require way more than that.
| |
| 14:56 | :)
| |
| 14:56 | <anivair> so far it's been a champ
| |
| 14:57 | okay, server is back up, so I'll give it a look now
| |
| 15:04 | (sadly, I can't really tell if this works till i get a ton of people on the system again ... guess I'll wait. In the meantime, will play myself over and over in a game of tic-tak-toe and learn something useful about the horrors of nuclear war)
| |
| 15:06 | staffencasa has joined IRC (staffencasa!~staffenca@128-193-144-194.oregonstate.edu) | |
| 15:09 | <andygraybeal> oh man, i had a flashback... serial console 19200 bps... it made me feel things i haven't felt since i was in sixth grade.
| |
| 15:09 | i know it is insignificant, but i felt like sharing.
| |
| 15:09 | i haven't been at a console this slow in forever. i bumped it up to 115200... :)
| |
| 15:13 | gnunux has left IRC (gnunux!~emmanuel@194.167.18.244, Quit: Ex-Chat) | |
| 15:31 | nosedrum has left IRC (nosedrum!~quassel@92.103.117.4, Remote host closed the connection) | |
| 15:31 | nosedrum has joined IRC (nosedrum!~quassel@92.103.117.4) | |
| 15:33 | Blinny has joined IRC (Blinny!~Blinny@www.peopleplaces.org) | |
| 15:34 | <Blinny> Looking for some specifics about Symbiont 8.04 clients, which work best and where to buy - I recall a contact in this room.
| |
| 15:37 | Can they PM me for specifics about which to buy and where?
| |
| 15:38 | dobber has left IRC (dobber!~dobber@213.169.45.222, Remote host closed the connection) | |
| 15:43 | Ghidorah has left IRC (Ghidorah!4a7e0f79@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.126.15.121, Ping timeout: 252 seconds) | |
| 15:51 | Parker955_Away is now known as Parker955 | |
| 15:51 | <anivair> I'm not 100% sure that the dbus th ing fixed my problem. I haven't seen that same problem yet, but I have been seeing some similar errors
| |
| 15:51 | "Jul 20 11:51:29 ltsp1 kernel: [ 3415.662090] npviewer.bin[20492]: segfault at 0 ip 00000000f61918d1 sp 00000000ffb2ca30 error 4 in libflashplayer.so[f5dc9000+b5f000]
| |
| 15:51 | "
| |
| 15:51 | for example
| |
| 15:52 | which is making me nervoid
| |
| 15:52 | nervous
| |
| 15:52 | <abeehc> i think you should be worried if flash wasn't crashing
| |
| 15:52 | otherwise that's a sign it's working as designed
| |
| 15:53 | <anivair> hehe
| |
| 15:53 | as if *that* happens
| |
| 15:53 | <abeehc> :)
| |
| 15:53 | <anivair> bizarro world
| |
| 15:54 | I'm also getting "Jul 20 11:51:06 ltsp1 in.tftpd[20674]: tftp: client does not accept options
| |
| 15:54 | " wh ich is not something that I'm familiar with
| |
| 15:54 | is that a normal LTSP message
| |
| 15:54 | <abeehc> i'm moving flash to the local client pretty quick for my install
| |
| 15:54 | so i can ignore crashes hehe
| |
| 15:54 | <anivair> I use it for almost nothing
| |
| 15:55 | <abeehc> anivair: i have many of those in my logs
| |
| 15:55 | <anivair> so I don't careif it crashes, I just worry it's inicative of a larger problem
| |
| 15:55 | okay, that helps
| |
| 15:55 | thanks
| |
| 15:55 | <abeehc> tftp: client does not accept options
| |
| 15:55 | normal stuff i beleive
| |
| 15:55 | <anivair> we're right at the 102 user mark now, so we'll see how it goes
| |
| 15:56 | <abeehc> damnnnn awesome
| |
| 15:56 | moldy has left IRC (moldy!~rene@unaffiliated/moldy) | |
| 15:56 | <abeehc> bare metal hardware?
| |
| 15:58 | <anivair> we're running a single dell poweredge (quad core)
| |
| 15:58 | I guess it's a lot of users, but it's never semed that odd to me
| |
| 16:04 | 107 with no errors. I'm not counting all my chickens yet, but it's looking good.
| |
| 16:05 | <mgariepy> anivair, 107 users doing what ?
| |
| 16:07 | mikkel has joined IRC (mikkel!~mikkel@80-71-132-15.u.parknet.dk) | |
| 16:07 | <tastle73> hi everybody. I'm using ubuntu 10.04 and am having a sound issue with Dell optiplexes and sound
| |
| 16:09 | <anivair> mostly they are using an ssh terminal to access collections softwre from inside a gnome desktop
| |
| 16:09 | they use the internet a little bit (restricted use)
| |
| 16:09 | and some of them abuse geyes
| |
| 16:09 | that's about it
| |
| 16:09 | oh
| |
| 16:09 | and twinkle softphones, but those are locally run
| |
| 16:10 | <mgariepy> ok
| |
| 16:10 | nice
| |
| 16:10 | <abeehc> verynice
| |
| 16:10 | <mgariepy> indeed
| |
| 16:10 | ;)
| |
| 16:11 | <abeehc> my experience is generally a virtualized server and it would basicly not do that
| |
| 16:11 | i wanna say it would melt but it can't cause it's not real
| |
| 16:12 | <anivair> heh
| |
| 16:12 | the poweredge handles itself well.
| |
| 16:12 | also, we're at full capacity now with no problems, so it seems that it was a dbus issue
| |
| 16:12 | thanks for the help
| |
| 16:12 | alkisg_web has joined IRC (alkisg_web!554b8cca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.75.140.202) | |
| 16:12 | <anivair> esspecially alkisg, who pointed me right at it
| |
| 16:13 | <alkisg_web> Hey anivair , all ok now?
| |
| 16:13 | Da-Geek has left IRC (Da-Geek!~Da-Geek@nat/redhat/x-zqjbdydqglchopjp, Quit: Leaving) | |
| 16:13 | <anivair> looks better, yeah
| |
| 16:13 | we're at capacity and i'm getting no errors
| |
| 16:13 | thanks
| |
| 16:13 | <alkisg_web> You didn't need to reboot, just to run ulimit from a terminal
| |
| 16:13 | Nice
| |
| 16:13 | <anivair> ahh
| |
| 16:13 | well, i did reboot, but it's working anyway
| |
| 16:14 | I'll ulimit next time (not that I hope there is a next time)
| |
| 16:14 | <alkisg_web> Yes the conf file works after reboot, the command line before reboot
| |
| 16:14 | So the command line was only needed to save you from rebooting, you don't need it now
| |
| 16:15 | And it was fixed in later versions, so you can just forget about that bug now that you've edited the conf file
| |
| 16:15 | <anivair> sweet!
| |
| 16:15 | I may need tpo look at upgarding soon anyway
| |
| 16:15 | what's a practical limit on users for an ltsp server?
| |
| 16:15 | assuming a pretty beefy quad core system?
| |
| 16:16 | <vagrantc> anivair: i honestly haven't heard of many systems with more than 30 users
| |
| 16:16 | <alkisg_web> I never ran big ltsp installations, but for thin clients I guess the network would be the first bottleneck
| |
| 16:16 | <vagrantc> concurrrent users, that is
| |
| 16:16 | <anivair> so the first upgrade woul dbe adding another data connection for the server?
| |
| 16:16 | <alkisg_web> The best thing to do would be to use a system monitor
| |
| 16:17 | And discover the bottlenecks yourself
| |
| 16:17 | <anivair> sure thing
| |
| 16:17 | <vagrantc> it also hugely depends on what they're doing ...
| |
| 16:17 | a lightweight environment like LXDE instead of GNOME can free up a lot of resources
| |
| 16:18 | * alkisg_web loves lxde, it even runs (normally, without ltsp) on systems with 64 ram | |
| 16:18 | <vagrantc> if they're browsing the web and watching flash movies all the time, or running openoffice/libreoffice and such ... it takes considerably more
| |
| 16:18 | <tastle73> q
| |
| 16:19 | alkisg_web has left IRC (alkisg_web!554b8cca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.75.140.202, Quit: Page closed) | |
| 16:24 | nosedrum has left IRC (nosedrum!~quassel@92.103.117.4, Remote host closed the connection) | |
| 16:26 | <anivair> okay .. I'm going to go start my redesign. thanks, all
| |
| 16:27 | anivair has left IRC (anivair!~joe@69.58.115.123, Quit: Leaving) | |
| 16:41 | TheMatrix3000 has joined IRC (TheMatrix3000!~TheMatrix@rrcs-70-61-255-226.central.biz.rr.com) | |
| 16:41 | vagrantc has left IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@conference/debconf/x-wouwdoujmagrxgma, Ping timeout: 264 seconds) | |
| 16:42 | vagrantc has joined IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@conference/debconf/x-ipchrvrcwrrcljzb) | |
| 16:48 | <tastle73> is there a troubleshooting guide for sound issues?
| |
| 16:50 | irule has joined IRC (irule!~irule@187.139.58.234) | |
| 17:34 | vagrantc has left IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@conference/debconf/x-ipchrvrcwrrcljzb, Ping timeout: 264 seconds) | |
| 17:37 | alkisg has joined IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg) | |
| 17:46 | alkisg has left IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg, Quit: Leaving.) | |
| 18:01 | * _UsUrPeR_ clears his throat | |
| 18:07 | drdata has joined IRC (drdata!~drdata@pool-173-57-189-158.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) | |
| 18:09 | <_UsUrPeR_> Hyperbyte: ping?
| |
| 18:09 | stgraber: ping?
| |
| 18:09 | <stgraber> _UsUrPeR_: pong
| |
| 18:09 | MorningSon has left IRC (MorningSon!~MorningSo@cpe-70-117-27-48.satx.res.rr.com, Ping timeout: 260 seconds) | |
| 18:09 | * _UsUrPeR_ tips his hat | |
| 18:10 | <_UsUrPeR_> I just got back from Germany, and was gone for a month
| |
| 18:10 | I see that alkisg was wondering about web space for chat logs. Was that resolved?
| |
| 18:10 | <stgraber> I think so. irclogs.ltsp.org seems to work fine
| |
| 18:11 | <_UsUrPeR_> He had mentioned us both in the same sentence, that's why I am asking you :)
| |
| 18:11 | ok, cool
| |
| 18:11 | <stgraber> I think Jim made a CNAME pointing to Hyperbyte's server
| |
| 18:12 | <Hyperbyte> _UsUrPeR_: ping!
| |
| 18:12 | Or pong, yeah.
| |
| 18:12 | <_UsUrPeR_> Hyperbyte: I think the question was answered. Was this resolved?
| |
| 18:12 | <Hyperbyte> See /topic
| |
| 18:12 | http://irclogs.ltsp.org/
| |
| 18:13 | <_UsUrPeR_> awesome
| |
| 18:13 | <Hyperbyte> Runs on my private virtual server, as well as the ltsp bot
| |
| 18:14 | <_UsUrPeR_> that is all then :3
| |
| 18:19 | <Hyperbyte> :)
| |
| 18:19 | Like the irc logs page?
| |
| 18:23 | <_UsUrPeR_> looks nice
| |
| 18:28 | <Hyperbyte> :)
| |
| 18:36 | drdata has left IRC (drdata!~drdata@pool-173-57-189-158.dllstx.fios.verizon.net, Ping timeout: 255 seconds) | |
| 18:41 | alkisg has joined IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg) | |
| 18:46 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: what's left is some conversation about the rest of the ltsp.org site, Hyperbyte offered to help with that too, but maybe we can talk about that in BTS, there's no hurry
| |
| 18:47 | <_UsUrPeR_> ok, however you want to proceed.
| |
| 18:48 | drdata has joined IRC (drdata!~drdata@tw2.udallas.edu) | |
| 18:50 | drdata has left IRC (drdata!~drdata@tw2.udallas.edu) | |
| 18:51 | <Hyperbyte> :)
| |
| 18:52 | I'd be honored if I could contribute to the project in that way. :)
| |
| 19:01 | <alkisg> stgraber: I want to backport the current LTSP trunk for Lucid to the Greek schools PPA.
| |
| 19:01 | About the nbd named exports changes, is the code still supposed to be working with the port-based exports, or should I omit those revisions?
| |
| 19:04 | otavio has joined IRC (otavio!~otavio@static-50-142-241-92.customer.blic.net) | |
| 19:04 | otavio has joined IRC (otavio!~otavio@debian/developer/otavio) | |
| 19:04 | <stgraber> alkisg: it should still work with nbdport. If it doesn't that's a bug
| |
| 19:05 | <alkisg> Thanks - I'll be testing it (the port-based exports) soon - I'll only omit r1779, the one with the udhcpc -C, which isn't available in Lucid.
| |
| 19:09 | drdata has joined IRC (drdata!~drdata@tw2.udallas.edu) | |
| 19:10 | drdata has left IRC (drdata!~drdata@tw2.udallas.edu) | |
| 19:24 | vagrantc has joined IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@conference/debconf/x-opmhfgslclzcovak) | |
| 19:26 | anti_system has joined IRC (anti_system!~blaster@163.39.136.95.rev.vodafone.pt) | |
| 19:26 | <anti_system> hey
| |
| 19:32 | <alkisg> Hi
| |
| 19:35 | Ah, build failed, `cp: cannot stat `./client/rdesktop.sh': No such file or directory ` => a small packaging change is needed there
| |
| 19:36 | This needs to be removed: ltsp-client-core.install:client/rdesktop.sh usr/share/ltsp
| |
| 19:37 | <tastle73> hey
| |
| 19:38 | * alkisg wonders why the kiosk plugin is different between debian/ubuntu... | |
| 19:40 | <anti_system> i'm using ltsp on edubuntu but when i try to login says response from server / restarting?
| |
| 19:41 | <alkisg> anti_system: try running these commands: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys && sudo ltsp-update-image
| |
| 19:41 | Then reboot the client
| |
| 19:41 | <tastle73> so some of my thin client sessions have sound some do not
| |
| 19:42 | is there a max connections in pulse or something?
| |
| 19:42 | some way to debug it?
| |
| 19:44 | <alkisg> tastle73: that happens on the same hardware? E.g. on different boots of the same client? Or on clients with different hardware?
| |
| 19:44 | <tastle73> identical hardware
| |
| 19:44 | <alkisg> The client syslog would be the place to look
| |
| 19:44 | distro/version?
| |
| 19:44 | <tastle73> ubuntu 10.04
| |
| 19:45 | <anti_system> alkisg i'm using the x64 version and when i run: ltsp-update-image says:Error: chroot /opt/ltsp/amd64 doesn't exist.
| |
| 19:45 | <alkisg> !SCREEN_02
| |
| 19:45 | <ltsp> alkisg: SCREEN_02: to get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using%20a%20shell%20SCREEN.
| |
| 19:45 | <alkisg> anti_system: sudo ltsp-update-image --arch i386
| |
| 19:45 | <tastle73> luckily I have ssh enabled
| |
| 19:45 | <anti_system> ok
| |
| 19:46 | i thought when i install the x64 version the thin clients are x64 not i386
| |
| 19:46 | lol
| |
| 19:48 | <tastle73> http://pastebin.com/6Dzds0t9 has the only stuff I could find
| |
| 19:48 | dmesg
| |
| 19:53 | <anti_system> alkisg dont work.....
| |
| 19:54 | say the same
| |
| 19:54 | <alkisg> anti_system: ok, get a root shell on the client to properly troubleshoot this:
| |
| 19:54 | !SCREEN_02
| |
| 19:54 | <ltsp> alkisg: SCREEN_02: to get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using%20a%20shell%20SCREEN.
| |
| 19:54 | <anti_system> when try to login
| |
| 19:54 | <alkisg> From the root shell, try: ssh <user>@server
| |
| 19:55 | Replace <user> with a username that exists on the server
| |
| 19:55 | Leave "server" exactly as it is, don't replace it with anything
| |
| 19:55 | See if you can ssh without seeing any warnings at all
| |
| 19:58 | <anti_system> cant resolvalkisg i try user@server and give me an error
| |
| 19:59 | could not resolve the hostname
| |
| 19:59 | <alkisg> Are you sure you're on a shell on the client?
| |
| 19:59 | Because "server" is hardcoded in the client /etc/hosts, what you're saying shouldn't ever happen
| |
| 19:59 | Try this: hostname
| |
| 20:00 | What does it say?
| |
| 20:01 | <anti_system> dont use "server" use "localhost"
| |
| 20:01 | and i can login at ssh
| |
| 20:01 | <alkisg> Then you didn't manage what the wiki page says
| |
| 20:01 | Did you change your lts.conf?
| |
| 20:02 | Are you seated on a thin client?
| |
| 20:02 | <anti_system> the thin client is an Atom
| |
| 20:02 | all said
| |
| 20:03 | :)
| |
| 20:03 | <alkisg> Hmmm this is going to be difficult. Try again to follow the wiki page that I linked above, and if you don't understand something from that page, ask here so that we explain it better
| |
| 20:03 | <anti_system> and no i dont change any config on ltsp
| |
| 20:03 | <alkisg> This link: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using%20a%20shell%20SCREEN.
| |
| 20:03 | That's what you need to do to start troubleshooting
| |
| 20:04 | It says there "go and change your configuration file named lts.conf"
| |
| 20:04 | Start with the "sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf" that is mentioned there.
| |
| 20:08 | <anti_system> alkisg i chroot the i386 dir
| |
| 20:08 | and when make ls /home
| |
| 20:09 | dont list anything
| |
| 20:09 | <alkisg> anti_system: I'm telling you "follow that wiki page". You're saying "I chrooted". I can't help you if you don't do what I say.
| |
| 20:09 | So I give up, ask in the channel, maybe someone else will be able to help you.
| |
| 20:10 | <anti_system> sorry
| |
| 20:10 | <alkisg> The home in the chroot is empty, that's normal
| |
| 20:11 | Blinny has left IRC (Blinny!~Blinny@www.peopleplaces.org, Quit: Leaving.) | |
| 20:14 | alkisg has left IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg, Quit: Leaving.) | |
| 20:26 | tastle73 has left IRC (tastle73!~tastle73@173-9-119-118-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) | |
| 20:39 | irule has left IRC (irule!~irule@187.139.58.234, Ping timeout: 258 seconds) | |
| 20:46 | brunolambert has left IRC (brunolambert!~brunolamb@nat/revolutionlinux/x-akeajlsfnnxsyfxb, Quit: brunolambert) | |
| 20:53 | <vagrantc> !seen jammcq
| |
| 20:53 | <ltsp> vagrantc: jammcq was last seen in #ltsp 1 day, 4 hours, 51 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <jammcq> or someone's house?
| |
| 20:58 | alkisg has joined IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg) | |
| 21:07 | anti_system has left IRC (anti_system!~blaster@163.39.136.95.rev.vodafone.pt, Quit: leaving) | |
| 21:13 | Parker955 is now known as Parker955_Away | |
| 21:26 | vagrantc has left IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@conference/debconf/x-opmhfgslclzcovak, Quit: leaving) | |
| 21:56 | <TheMatrix3000> !seen bencer
| |
| 21:56 | <ltsp> TheMatrix3000: I have not seen bencer.
| |
| 21:56 | <TheMatrix3000> hahaha he is right here in this room
| |
| 21:56 | <bencer> ?
| |
| 21:57 | <TheMatrix3000> haha, bencer i guess you don't exist
| |
| 22:00 | <alkisg> A person needs to speak for the bot to "see" him
| |
| 22:00 | So if you try it again, you'll get an answer now
| |
| 22:04 | dead_inside has left IRC (dead_inside!~dead_insi@76.75.3.174, Quit: Leaving...) | |
| 22:06 | mikkel has left IRC (mikkel!~mikkel@80-71-132-15.u.parknet.dk, Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | |
| 22:07 | irule has joined IRC (irule!~irule@187.139.58.234) | |
| 22:07 | <TheMatrix3000> ah
| |
| 22:07 | !seen bencer
| |
| 22:07 | <ltsp> TheMatrix3000: bencer was last seen in #ltsp 10 minutes and 41 seconds ago: <bencer> ?
| |
| 22:07 | <TheMatrix3000> haha nice
| |
| 22:08 | alkisg, btw im running nfs /home directories on another server and mounted it in my ltsp server
| |
| 22:08 | it's been working great
| |
| 22:08 | _UsUrPeR__ has joined IRC (_UsUrPeR__!~jsass@fw.acurrus.com) | |
| 22:11 | vlt___ has joined IRC (vlt___!~dm@suez.activ-job.com) | |
| 22:13 | alkisg has left IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg, Ping timeout: 255 seconds) | |
| 22:13 | sunscreen has left IRC (sunscreen!~sunscreen@unaffiliated/factor45, Ping timeout: 255 seconds) | |
| 22:13 | _UsUrPeR_ has left IRC (_UsUrPeR_!~jsass@fw.acurrus.com, Ping timeout: 255 seconds) | |
| 22:13 | vlt has left IRC (vlt!~dm@suez.activ-job.com, Ping timeout: 255 seconds) | |
| 22:17 | sunscreen has joined IRC (sunscreen!~sunscreen@unaffiliated/factor45) | |
| 22:23 | TheMatrix3000 has left IRC (TheMatrix3000!~TheMatrix@rrcs-70-61-255-226.central.biz.rr.com) | |
| 22:25 | otavio has left IRC (otavio!~otavio@debian/developer/otavio, Ping timeout: 252 seconds) | |
| 22:31 | irule has left IRC (irule!~irule@187.139.58.234, Quit: Leaving) | |
| 22:54 | sunscreen has left IRC (sunscreen!~sunscreen@unaffiliated/factor45, *.net *.split) | |
| 22:54 | spectra_ has left IRC (spectra_!~spectra@spectra-2-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net, *.net *.split) | |
| 22:59 | spectra_ has joined IRC (spectra_!~spectra@spectra-2-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net) | |
| 22:59 | sunscreen has joined IRC (sunscreen!~sunscreen@unaffiliated/factor45) | |
| 23:24 | Trixboxer has left IRC (Trixboxer!~Trixboxer@office.supportdepartment.net, Quit: "Achievement is not the end, its the beginning of new journey !!!") | |