IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 15 September 2007 (all times are UTC)
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| 11:29 | <ace_suares> !seen ogra
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| 11:29 | <ltspbot`> ace_suares: ogra was last seen in #ltsp 20 hours, 43 minutes, and 46 seconds ago: <ogra> thanks :)
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| 13:21 | <lns> If someone made a song about LTSP, what genre would it fall under?
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| 13:24 | <vagrantc> depends on the song
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| 13:31 | <lns> but if you made a song and you wanted it to be all about ltsp, what do you think the song's genre should be?
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| 13:32 | * vagrantc doesn't find the question meaningful | |
| 13:32 | * lns was just curious =p | |
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| 13:49 | <cliebow> Reggae!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 14:03 | <lns> cliebow, hahaha that would be cool
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| 16:50 | <jammcq> laprag: hey
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| 16:51 | <laprag> hey Jim
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| 16:51 | <jammcq> how's it going?
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| 16:51 | <laprag> Good good
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| 16:51 | <jammcq> cool. you still traveling alot?
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| 16:51 | <laprag> been a while. yep, still travelling
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| 16:51 | got a well founded project in florida now
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| 16:52 | <jammcq> yeah. any chance you'll be around boston the week of Oct 28th?
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| 16:52 | <laprag> even an office in tampa :)
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| 16:52 | <jammcq> wow
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| 16:52 | apartment too?
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| 16:52 | <laprag> heh, not me, but my colleague does
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| 16:53 | i still stay in a hotel when i am there
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| 17:17 | <joebob777as7> hey is there a way to copy the xorg from my client to server?
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| 17:18 | what is the scp command?
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| 17:23 | sbalneav, you here?
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| 17:23 | <jammcq> man scp
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| 17:23 | <joebob777as7> i'm trying to scp to server but getting "host key verification failed"
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| 17:24 | <jammcq> hmm, it should work
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| 17:24 | what are you typing?
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| 17:24 | <joebob777as7> tha'ts what i thought "scp file server:/home/file"
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| 17:25 | <jammcq> what version of ltsp ?
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| 17:25 | <joebob777as7> newest running gutsy
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| 17:25 | it's an upgrade from feisty
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| 17:25 | ogra, you on?
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| 17:26 | <jammcq> have you done: ltsp-update-sshkeys ?
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| 17:26 | on the server
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| 17:26 | <joebob777as7> nope
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| 17:26 | <jammcq> try that on the server, and then try the scp again
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| 17:26 | <joebob777as7> still no worky
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| 17:28 | <joebob777as7> i also tried scp file user@server:/home/file
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| 17:28 | it doesn't even ask for a pass...
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| 17:28 | <jammcq> try it with an IP address
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| 17:28 | instead of a server name
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| 17:29 | <joebob777as7> permission denied, please try again / permission denied (publickey,password)
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| 17:30 | <jammcq> ok, getting somewhere now.
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| 17:30 | <joebob777as7> lol
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| 17:30 | <jammcq> was that with 'user@'
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| 17:31 | otherwise, it'll use 'root', and you prolly don't have a root password setup on the server
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| 17:31 | <joebob777as7> same either way
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| 17:32 | <jammcq> hmm, is it asking for the password ?
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| 17:32 | <joebob777as7> no
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| 17:32 | <jammcq> odd
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| 17:32 | what user are you using?
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| 17:32 | <joebob777as7> the user i set up the server with
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| 17:32 | <jammcq> hmm
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| 17:33 | and you are using the IP address of the server, correct?
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| 17:33 | <joebob777as7> yes 10.0.0.1 and i put in echo $SERVER and that's the ip it outputs.
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| 17:35 | btw how do i stop a command in console ctrl C isn't working i stupidly pinged server
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| 17:35 | <jammcq> umm
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| 17:39 | <joebob777as7> should i just reboot?
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| 17:39 | <jammcq> well, that would do it
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| 17:39 | <joebob777as7> i've tried all kinds of key combos...
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| 17:40 | rebooting
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| 17:41 | ok so back to scp do i need to rebuild image after doing ltsp-update sshkeys?
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| 17:41 | <jammcq> umm, I really don't know. possibly
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| 17:48 | <joebob777as7> this is so gay why can't something just work!
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| 18:00 | jammcq, rebuild image didn't work
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| 18:00 | still same error
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| 18:00 | permission denied, please try again / permission denied (publickey,password)
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| 18:04 | <joebob777as7> jammcq, can i copy to smb?
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| 18:14 | jammcq, know how to mount smb?
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| 18:15 | ok can't mount smb in ltsp
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| 18:16 | can someone help me getting scp working?!?
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| 18:34 | <joebob777as7> cliebow, i'm having an ssh (scp) issue can you give me a hand?
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| 18:34 | permission denied, please try again / permission denied (publickey,password)
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| 18:48 | <joebob777as7> jammcq, should i remove ssh and reinstall?
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| 19:03 | <sbalneav> joebob777as7: What command are you using exactly?
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| 19:04 | <joebob777as7_> can anyone give me a hand with my scp (ssh) issue?
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| 19:04 | sbalneav, ? you on?
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| 19:06 | <sbalneav> yes
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| 19:06 | <joebob777as7_> awesome! did you see my ssh issue?
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| 19:06 | <sbalneav> no
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| 19:07 | <joebob777as7> i tried scp file user@server:/home/file
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| 19:07 | permission denied, please try again / permission denied (publickey,password)
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| 19:07 | <sbalneav> Server may not be defined
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| 19:07 | Use the ip address
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| 19:07 | <joebob777as7> i also tried using the ip same message
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| 19:08 | and i typed echo $SERVER and got that ip i tried
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| 19:08 | i tried ltsp-update-sshkeys and no change
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| 19:08 | <sbalneav> What's the server's ip address?
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| 19:09 | <joebob777as7> 10.0.0.1 or 192.168.0.2 both work
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| 19:09 | but echo $SERVER shows 10.0.0.1
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| 19:09 | <sbalneav> what happens if you type ssh -l user 10.0.0.1
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| 19:09 | <joebob777as7> think this could be an issue from updating to gutsy from feisty?
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| 19:09 | <sbalneav> what happens if you type ssh -l user 10.0.0.1
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| 19:10 | <joebob777as7> same error
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| 19:10 | <sbalneav> It doesn't ask you for a password?
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| 19:10 | <joebob777as7> no
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| 19:10 | <sbalneav> Have you modified your /etc/ssh/sshd_config file on the server?
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| 19:11 | <joebob777as7> no
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| 19:11 | <sbalneav> on the server:
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| 19:11 | ps -ef | grep sshd
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| 19:11 | What do you get?
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| 19:12 | <joebob777as7> root 5067 1 0 Sep13 ? 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/sshd
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| 19:12 | root 9336 5067 0 15:54 ? 00:00:00 sshd: mary [priv]
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| 19:12 | mary 9344 9336 0 15:54 ? 00:00:00 sshd: mary@pts/1
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| 19:12 | richard 11033 12603 0 17:08 pts/3 00:00:00 grep sshd
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| 19:12 | <sbalneav> Please paste the contents of your /etc/ssh/sshd_config file on the server to the pastebot
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| 19:13 | !pastebot
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| 19:13 | <ltspbot`> sbalneav: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
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| 19:13 | <joebob777as7> http://pastebin.ca/699051
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| 19:15 | sbalneav, i can log in from another machine on the network just fine and it asks me to accept key and then for a password...
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| 19:17 | <sbalneav> What is the ip address of the client?
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| 19:17 | <joebob777as7> 10.0.0.246
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| 19:19 | <sbalneav> I know you can't paste it, but what's in the /etc/ssh/ssh_config on the thin client?
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| 19:19 | shouldnt be much
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| 19:20 | Host *
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| 19:20 | SendEnv LANG LC_*
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| 19:20 | HashKnownHosts yes
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| 19:20 | GSSAPIAuthentication yes
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| 19:20 | GSSAPIDelegateCredentials no
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| 19:20 | Rest should be commented out
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| 19:21 | <joebob777as7> yup
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| 19:22 | should i remove ssh_known_hosts?
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| 19:22 | then try?
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| 19:22 | <sbalneav> no
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| 19:23 | Try restarting the sshd on the server
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| 19:23 | invoke-rc.d openssh-server restart
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| 19:24 | <joebob777as7> openssh-server not found
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| 19:24 | ssh is there though restart that?
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| 19:25 | <sbalneav> yeah
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| 19:25 | sorry, so many different linuxs call things different names.
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| 19:25 | <joebob777as7> it's fine still same error
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| 19:27 | <sbalneav> I'll try on mine
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| 19:27 | <joebob777as7> ok
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| 19:29 | <sbalneav> ok, works on mine.
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| 19:29 | do an ssh -v -l user 10.0.0.1
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| 19:29 | That should give us some clues
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| 19:30 | <joebob777as7> holy crap want me to type all that?
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| 19:31 | i can't even see all of it
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| 19:31 | net authentication method: publickey
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| 19:31 | trying private key: /root/.ssh/identity
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| 19:32 | next authentication method: password
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| 19:32 | <sbalneav> What after that?
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| 19:32 | <joebob777as7> read_passphrase: can't open /dev/tty: no such device or address
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| 19:32 | <sbalneav> ok, that's a problem
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| 19:32 | <joebob777as7> authentications that can continue: publickey,password Permission denied, please try again
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| 19:33 | <sbalneav> You logged in on SCREEN_02=shell?
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| 19:33 | <joebob777as7> lol i'm using the same monitor for both computers...
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| 19:33 | yes i am
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| 19:33 | <sbalneav> ok. Well, that's a bug then.
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| 19:33 | I'll have to look into that.
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| 19:34 | Here's what we'll do, short term
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| 19:34 | on the server:
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| 19:34 | chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
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| 19:34 | passwd
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| 19:34 | (enter a password twice)
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| 19:34 | exit
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| 19:34 | then, an ltsp-update-image
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| 19:34 | that will allow root to log in on ctl-alt-F1
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| 19:35 | then you should be able to scp from that.
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| 19:36 | <joebob777as7> ok i'll let you know
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| 19:43 | sbalneav, woohoo! it worked! ok also how do i stop something that has started in screen 2? ctrl c doesn't work
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| 19:43 | i noticed it did in 1 though
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| 19:48 | <sbalneav> Contro c should work, if not, we've got a problem with tty handling.
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| 19:49 | I'll have to look into it.
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| 19:49 | shell's usually just used for debugging, so it's not an issue, normally.
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| 20:02 | <joebob777as7_> sbalneav, can you jump into #compiz-fusion-dev please real quick they are telling me that this definately isn't a compiz-fusion bug...
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| 20:03 | sbalneav, i need you to back me up on this you understand ltsp better than i
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| 20:10 | *do
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| 20:29 | <sbalneav> So, The guy who doesn't know anything is telling you he knows it's definitely not a compiz bug? :)
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| 20:30 | <joebob777as7_> yea lol
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| 20:31 | well eventually i'll get someone that know's something.........
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| 20:31 | <sbalneav> Yeah. Good luck with that.
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| 20:32 | <joebob777as7_> thanks :(
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| 20:39 | i guess i'm just stuck with no answer... it is probably unlikely that this would ever get resolved without my pestering....
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| 20:40 | <sbalneav> I'd bet 70/30 odds it won't get fixed even with your pestering.
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| 20:41 | <joebob777as7_> looks like i've got 69/31 with pestering...
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| 20:41 | lol
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| 20:41 | i wish i knew who to talk to to get this resolved...
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| 20:41 | <sbalneav> Ultimately, the compiz devs will likely say: running compiz on a remote display causes problems, don't do it.
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| 20:42 | Your boss.
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| 20:42 | "Currently, compiz doesn't work with a remote display. What do you want more, eye candy or cost savings?"
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| 20:42 | <joebob777as7_> that's the answer i don't want... as it is compiz causes problems without fixing it to get it to work so i don't see how this is too much different...
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| 20:42 | neither. we want functionality that we don't have.
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| 20:43 | <sbalneav> If she says eyecandy, then put in 5 full fledged workstations. If cost savings, then go with what works.
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| 20:44 | <joebob777as7_> negative, desktop zoom, window transparency and more...
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| 20:44 | <sbalneav> You still have NOT explained to me WHAT compiz gives you that a regular window manager doesn't.
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| 20:45 | Maybe I'm missing something, but every time someone shows me compiz, they never show me anything that I can't do with the regular window manager, other than the fact that it LOOKS fancier.
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| 20:46 | <joebob777as7_> well for a start those three things. can you do window transparency on the fly make certain windows negative on the fly do print screens with mouse selection box in any program and zoom out of your desktops and see live views of all of them at once?
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| 20:47 | <sbalneav> Ok, lets start with window transparency.
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| 20:47 | What does that do?
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| 20:47 | it lets you see another window through a window.
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| 20:48 | What's that buying you, as opposed to, say, putting the two windows side by side, or just switching them with alt tab?
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| 20:48 | <joebob777as7_> allows me to type a document or an email and copy or read or watch something behind it...
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| 20:49 | <sbalneav> as opposed to, say, putting the two windows side by side?
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| 20:49 | <joebob777as7_> yes because you can't see as much when you do that and we will not have dual monitor setups
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| 20:50 | <sbalneav> Sorry, I don't buy it.
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| 20:50 | trying to read something through something else is just going to lead to screw ups.
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| 20:50 | besides, how many things can you reasonably do at once?
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| 20:50 | But, whatever
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| 20:51 | I'm getting sucked into this again, and I said I wouldn't
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| 20:51 | <joebob777as7_> not if we wanted to say watch the news or enter into our database program while we are reading an email from a client...
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| 20:51 | what aobut the live preview of multiple desktops
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| 20:52 | <sbalneav> ctl-alt-left arrow, switch the desktop
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| 20:52 | <joebob777as7_> or the print screen of your mouse selection?
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| 20:52 | <sbalneav> switch back
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| 20:52 | meh
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| 20:52 | enough
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| 20:52 | <joebob777as7_> lol
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| 20:52 | <jammcq> joebob777as7_: LTSP isn't for everybody. Apparently what you need isn't something you can get with LTSP
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| 20:53 | <joebob777as7_> jammcq, i can in feisty with old compiz
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| 20:53 | <jammcq> ok, so use feisty and old compiz then
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| 20:54 | <joebob777as7_> old compiz sucks and gutsy is better
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| 20:54 | <jammcq> better? but it doesn't work for you
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| 20:54 | <joebob777as7_> lol
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| 20:54 | <jammcq> gutzy is not even beta yet
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| 20:55 | <sbalneav> jammcq: it's up to him, let him persue it.
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| 20:55 | It's either an xorg bug or a compiz bug.
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| 20:55 | it's not a ltsp bug, so I don't care.
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| 20:56 | <joebob777as7_> :)
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| 20:56 | thanks for the support sbalneav. i'll get back to you when i get further.
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| 20:56 | <jammcq> my guess is we'll sit down with the compiz and xorg guys at UDS and see if something can be done. but that won't be for gutsy, it'll be for the next one
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| 20:57 | <sbalneav> joebob777as7_: Hey, I got enough bugs to handle with the stuff I *AM* responsible for. I can't save the whole world. 'Specially as an unpaid volunteer.
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| 20:58 | <joebob777as7_> very true sbalneav. need a donation?
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| 20:58 | ;)
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| 20:58 | <sbalneav> nope
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| 20:59 | <joebob777as7_> well you can't say i didn't try
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| 20:59 | lol
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| 21:04 | <sbalneav> Hmmm, need a udev rule that will select ANY cdrom.
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| 21:07 | ah
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| 21:07 | <joebob777as7_> oh have you seen grouping and tabbing windows sbalneav ? that is a sweet feature
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| 21:08 | <sbalneav> KERNEL=="sr[0-9]*|hd[a-z]|pcd[0-9]*"
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| 21:08 | <jammcq> what's a pcd[0-9] ?
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| 21:08 | <joebob777as7_> I wish i knew how to code. what languages do i need to learn to be of use?
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| 21:09 | <jammcq> all of them
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| 21:09 | <joebob777as7_> php?
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| 21:10 | <jammcq> that's prolly the least useful to a distro
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| 21:10 | <joebob777as7_> being facetious
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| 21:15 | sbalneav, what languages do you know?
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| 21:19 | <sbalneav> joebob777as7_: C, python mainly
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| 21:20 | And, of course, shell scripting
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| 21:20 | <jammcq> and sh and regex and Makefiles
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| 21:20 | <joebob777as7_> ok in my spare time i'll definately do that
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| 21:20 | <sbalneav> In the past, I've studied: perl, prolog, lisp, forth, java, javascript, php
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| 21:21 | My main language of choice for complicated things is C
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| 21:24 | <joebob777as7_> sbalneav, which one should i learn first to help me with the rest?
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| 21:27 | <sbalneav> Depends on what you want to accomplish
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| 21:27 | If you want to write smaller apps quickly, Perl or Python are good choices.
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| 21:27 | If you want to get low down into the guts of things, C
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| 21:28 | or C++
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| 21:28 | ANY programming language you learn will make learning others easier.
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| 21:29 | <joebob777as7_> ok thanks a bunch! last question. should i learn perl or python first? which is best?
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| 21:30 | <sbalneav> heh
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| 21:31 | Either's fine.
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| 21:31 | Different people will tell you one or the other's better. I know python, jammcq's a perl junkie.
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| 21:32 | There's probably a little more example code out there for perl than python. Latrger development community.
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| 21:32 | <jammcq> but... if you wanna get into object oriented stuff, Python would be better
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| 21:33 | <sbalneav> Python has a cleaner style
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| 21:33 | <jammcq> Perl does OOP, but python enforces it
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| 21:33 | with perl, you gotta really WANT to do OOP
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| 21:33 | <sbalneav> bottom line: given task X, solution Y is implementable in either.
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| 21:34 | <joebob777as7_> ok thanks
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| 21:46 | <sbalneav> jammcq: So, I've translated jetpipe from python into C. And I had come up with an idea, and I've tested it, and it works, and I wanted to see what you thought.
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| 21:46 | <jammcq> ok, so far I like it
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| 21:46 | <sbalneav> I'm launching jetpipe from udev
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| 21:46 | <jammcq> ok
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| 21:46 | that's the idea?
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| 21:46 | <sbalneav> so, if you've got a // port enabled, or you've got a usb lp, they just launch a jetpipe
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| 21:46 | yeah, that's part of it.
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| 21:47 | <jammcq> that's fantastic
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| 21:47 | <sbalneav> here's the problem.
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| 21:47 | <jammcq> so you could hot-plug a printer?
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| 21:47 | <sbalneav> and here's how I solved it.
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| 21:47 | yes.
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| 21:47 | <jammcq> I love it
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| 21:47 | <sbalneav> hot plug, and it starts a jetpipe.
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| 21:47 | but.
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| 21:47 | <jammcq> but... ?
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| 21:47 | the rest is just details :)
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| 21:47 | <sbalneav> BOTH // ports and usb ports are lp0
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| 21:48 | <jammcq> what is '//' ?
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| 21:48 | <sbalneav> and what I'm doing is calculating the port num from a base plus offset
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| 21:48 | parallel
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| 21:48 | <jammcq> ah
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| 21:48 | usb ports are /dev/lpX ?
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| 21:48 | <sbalneav> /dev/usb/lpx
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| 21:48 | <jammcq> ok
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| 21:48 | <sbalneav> with a link of /dev/usblpx
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| 21:48 | <jammcq> so what's the problem?
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| 21:49 | <sbalneav> so, what I do is detect if it's a usb device. Base for regular // port is 9100
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| 21:49 | base for usb ports is 9150
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| 21:49 | so, first usb printer is 9150
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| 21:49 | second 9151, etc
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| 21:49 | first // is 9100
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| 21:49 | second 9101, etc
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| 21:49 | <jammcq> heh, for the last couple years, "USB" IS regular
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| 21:50 | <sbalneav> well, we can switch which is which
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| 21:50 | <jammcq> I don't understand why you need a different base ?
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| 21:50 | why not the first printer plugged in is 9100, second is 9101....
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| 21:50 | <sbalneav> Well, I'd have to calculate that somehow externally
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| 21:50 | <jammcq> calculate what?
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| 21:51 | <sbalneav> remember: i get a separate invocation for each lp
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| 21:51 | <jammcq> so, somwhere you need to keep track of allocated printers
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| 21:51 | <sbalneav> so, I get called once for /dev/lp1
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| 21:51 | right.
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| 21:51 | <jammcq> err, allocated port numbers
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| 21:51 | but..... here's the trick:
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| 21:52 | <sbalneav> if I separate them, with usb in one range, and // in another, then I don't have to.
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| 21:52 | <jammcq> let's say you already have a printer plugged in and configured. it's lp0 and uses 9100
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| 21:52 | <sbalneav> I just take base + device offset = port
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| 21:52 | yup
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| 21:52 | <jammcq> then, you add a second printer, the new printer is lp1 and is port 9101. you configure cups, and everybody is happy
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| 21:52 | then, you reboot the client. the 2nd printer gets detected first.
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| 21:52 | blammo!!!!
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| 21:52 | cups ain't so happy anymore
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| 21:53 | <sbalneav> well, you have that problem now, really
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| 21:53 | <jammcq> yeah, but we dn't support hotplugging, so it's not that big of a problem right now
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| 21:53 | <sbalneav> if you have two usb printers, you've got no guarentee which is usblp0 vs usblp1
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| 21:54 | <jammcq> but, you can be assured that everytime you turn the workstation on, as long as both printers are powered up, they'll get detected in the same order
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| 21:54 | <sbalneav> unless you coded a special udev rule to force one to a fixed offset.
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| 21:54 | The way I have it now, if you have 1 usb, or 1 //, it's fine.
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| 21:54 | <jammcq> the problem comes when the first printer is not powered on
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| 21:54 | <sbalneav> if you have 1 of each, it's also fine.
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| 21:55 | if you have 2 // printers, THATS fine, becuase it's settable in bios.
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| 21:55 | the only issue is 2 usb printers, and that's the same problem as what we've got now.
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| 21:55 | <jammcq> well, it's an issue, but I don't think it's a show stopper
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| 21:56 | ulitimately what we need is auto-detection of printers all the way up the line
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| 21:56 | <sbalneav> I guess the question is: do you mind the separation? or is it important to you to have the concurrentness?
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| 21:56 | <jammcq> so cups doesn't have to be manually configured
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| 21:56 | <sbalneav> right.
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| 21:56 | that'd be the next step
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| 21:56 | <jammcq> well, I'd prefer 9100, 9101, 9102... but i'm not hung up on that
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| 21:57 | <sbalneav> Lets put that one on the table for boston, knock it around.
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| 21:57 | <jammcq> sure
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| 21:57 | just keep in mind, if you pick 9150, and you document it, it's hard to ever go back
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| 21:57 | <sbalneav> Well, it'll be overridable
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| 21:57 | <jammcq> is this going into gutsy?
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| 21:58 | <sbalneav> No, I don't think so.
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| 21:58 | too many unanswered questions.
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| 21:58 | I want to hash it around first. But it'll be a good feature for the LTS release.
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| 21:59 | <jammcq> yes indeed
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| 23:20 | <sbalneav> Woot
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| 23:20 | cdpinger translated into C
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| 23:20 | launched from udev
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| 23:20 | <sbalneav> That's one less program started on bootup, and it's a big one, since before it was in Pythin
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| 23:21 | err, python.
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| 23:48 | <mistik1> sbalneav: how goes it?
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| 23:48 | <sbalneav> Well, good, I think
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| 23:49 | Gutsy's going to be the best release of ltsp yet, I beleive
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| 23:49 | <mistik1> good to hear
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| 23:49 | <sbalneav> You?
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| 23:49 | <mistik1> I'm hanging in there
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| 23:49 | Coding java of late
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| 23:50 | <sbalneav> Cool, for work?
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| 23:50 | <mistik1> yea
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| 23:50 | <joebob777as7> sbalneav, is there a good way to install some wine apps and make them work for all future users?
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| 23:51 | <sbalneav> eurgh. Not impossible, but difficult.
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| 23:52 | Best is to set up a secondary "drive" in wine, install the apps there.
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| 23:52 | <mistik1> I wish I had some ltsp related work on my horizon so I could work on some integration, but its hard to find time between trying to eat
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| 23:52 | <joebob777as7> ok well i'll give it a try tomorrow. my wife's making me get off the computer... good night and thanks for your help!
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| 23:53 | <sbalneav> mistik1: yeah, eating's good.
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| 23:57 | <mistik1> sbalneav: You know you and jammcq have been riding me for years about me saying i'm no programmer but go figure, It seems i've been thinking like one for a long time ;-)
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