IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Channel log from 23 October 2009 (all times are UTC)

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04:35	<Alocado_> k, thy
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04:46	<Alocado_> alkisg, thy, it works =)
04:46	<alkisg> yw :)
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08:26	<cliebow> GAdi:WE MISS YOU
08:27	<Gadi> awe...
08:27	hows it going?
08:27	anybody driving an agenda?
08:28	(other than beer and lobster)
08:30	<cliebow> not sure anyone is up...
08:30	i am at school
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09:20	<cliebow> sbalneav:Wazzup?
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09:49	<sbalneav> Morning all
09:49	<chrisinajar> NO U!
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09:50	<stgraber> For Ubuntu Jaunty users: Add PPA deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/infinote/ppa/ubuntu jaunty main
09:50	then install gobby-0.5
09:50	server is ltsp-dev01
09:51	for Karmic users, the package is in the repository
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09:56	<cliebow> sbalneav:wazzup?
10:04	<sbalneav> Hey cliebow!!!
10:11	<chrisinajar> stgraber: thank you sir
10:13	<Gadi> so, which of the world's LTSP problems are we solving today?
10:14	<sbalneav> stgraber: is the gobby session available to the outside world?
10:14	<stgraber> nope, we'd need quite a lot of NAT to make that work
10:14	<sbalneav> maybe we can get gadi following it.
10:14	hm
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10:15	<stgraber> we have like two wrt routers before my server ...
10:15	<sbalneav> Gadi: Well, well, so far we've got pam, and dbus on the agenda
10:15	with more to come'
10:15	<Gadi> sounds like a good start
10:16	have you shared your pam ideas?
10:16	<sbalneav> yeah
10:16	<stgraber> yep, around breakfast
10:16	<Gadi> did they throw pancakes at you?
10:17	(thats usually a bad sign)
10:17	<sbalneav> The concensus is, pam = good, we just need to figure out how to get there.
10:17	Both the idea we discussed, or some other pam magic might be on the menu.
10:17	When we get to it, I'll keep you in the loop
10:17	<Gadi> cool
10:18	<sbalneav> Right now we're just in introductions.
10:18	<Gadi> stgraber: do you have your usual openvz setup there?
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10:22	<stgraber> Gadi: yep
10:22	on a nice quadcore ;)
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10:23	<Gadi> show off
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10:24	<Gadi> stgraber: you gonna be playing with localapps today?
10:24	<stgraber> I hope so
10:24	we have: ldm (pam integration), gconf, dbus, dev doc, localapps/remoteapps/fat client and cluster
10:24	on the board
10:25	<Gadi> mmm... gconf - thats a good one
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10:28	<stgraber> Gadi: do you have skype ?
10:28	<jammcq> Gadi: Hey !!!!!!
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10:29	<Gadi> stgraber: yeah - on my netbook that Im upgrading atm from intrepid to jaunty (dont laugh - it takes me a while) :)
10:29	jammcq: u made it!
10:29	;)
10:29	<stgraber> Gadi: what's your username ?
10:29	<jammcq> yeah, we sure did
10:30	Gadi: we stayed in Worcester wednesday night
10:30	<Gadi> stgraber: I have 2: gideonromm or gadiromm
10:30	both work
10:30	<jammcq> got there around midnight. turned out to be a good stopping point
10:30	<stgraber> Gadi: added you, I have a webcam here so you should be able to follow the talk from Scott and myself
10:31	<Gadi> jammcq: I believe its pronounced "Wuster, Maaas"
10:31	<ogra> did he pronounce it wrongly?
10:31	sounded about right ... at least on IRC :)
10:31	<Gadi> this from the German :P
10:31	<stgraber> Gadi: user not found ... are you online ?
10:32	<jammcq> Gadi: oh, we definitly got it right. we practiced
10:32	Woostah
10:32	<Gadi> stgraber: not yet - after it finishes updating
10:32	Im literally updating atm
10:32	<stgraber> Gadi: ok, I added you, just call me when you're ready
10:32	<Gadi> stgraber, I presume?
10:33	<stgraber> yep
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10:58	<vmlintu> What does ldm (pam integration) mean? Ldm doing authentication locally through pam instead of connecting through ssh and suppying username/password to ssh client?
10:59	<Gadi> vmlintu: the ssh auth is a bit of a pain when it comes to expired password handling
10:59	especially in multiple languages
10:59	<vagrantc> and how!
10:59	<vmlintu> That would make integrating kerberos in the whole thing much easier.
10:59	<vagrantc> it also causes bugs like....
11:00	<Gadi> this stems from the fact that it is a terminal-based auth approach
11:00	and they cannot do graphical askpass type stuff prior to authenticating
11:00	<vmlintu> With nfs4+kerberos localapps could use normal nfs4 home directories with autofs-ldap..
11:00	<Gadi> because they wont start an insecure Xproxy prior to auth
11:00	<vagrantc> http://bugs.debian.org/542680
11:01	<Gadi> so, the idea is to allow a first-pass auth that can handle password expiry first
11:01	<vagrantc> yet another bug that could be better handled by changing ldm's auth mechanisms...
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11:01	<Gadi> and then create the ssh tunnel as a second pass
11:01	with the creds from the first pass
11:01	<vagrantc> sounds fun and tricky
11:01	<Gadi> indeed
11:02	<vmlintu> What about using pam-ldm to get kerberos principal and the use the kerberos principal to login with ssh?
11:02	No need to pass the password to ssh..
11:03	<vagrantc> Gadi: while doing all that craziness, let's not forget about ssh key auth.
11:03	<Gadi> most of the issue boils down to what extra requirement do we want to put on the server
11:03	and how can we make that extra thing painless
11:03	and automagic
11:03	<vagrantc> is there any way we can make it optional?
11:03	<Gadi> I think all of this needs to be optional
11:04	<vmlintu> I've been using gdm+pam+kerberos with fatclients for some time and it makes life smooth..
11:04	<Gadi> just kerberos or kerberos and ldap?
11:04	<vmlintu> kerberos + ldap + nfs4 + autofs
11:04	<ogra> vagrantc, i'm here ... dont worry dm will still go on functioning for old setups :)
11:04	<vagrantc> the long-standing idea, at least in theory, if not in practice, was to be able to log into any machine running sshd and an Xsession file or something comprable
11:04	<Gadi> right - so thats a heck of a "requirement" to have for ltsp
11:05	<vagrantc> ogra: :)
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11:05	<Gadi> we still want ltsp to continue to work in whatever auth env the user has
11:05	<ogra> and we'll surely not add any insane maintenance/support overhead like ldap or kerberos in the default setup
11:06	<vagrantc> the above mentioned debian bug is a little ugly for freegeek ... we have some diskless networks which connect to the same server from different ip addresses ... so the "the server has the expected key, adding the ip address to known_hosts failed" sort of messages ... or "it has the right key, but there are two ip addresses listed!" kind of annoyances
11:06	<ogra> the current suggestions are a) have an ldm user on the server with key auth that happens before the login procedure ...
11:06	<vmlintu> the kerberos setting can be supported easily if login is done using ldm/pam and the ssh options don't disable using the kerberos principal
11:06	<ogra> (indeed fall back to the old method here if the user doesnt exist)
11:07	or b) have a pam module on the server that acts as a proxy and standarizes a protocol
11:07	<vagrantc> i really dislike option a, if option b is feasible without driving us insane ...
11:07	* ogra isnt hapy about both but they seem the simplest solutions ....
11:08	<ogra> both require stuff on the server side ...
11:08	i'd really prefer to fix ssh rather than working out such workarounds
11:08	<vagrantc> well, if it falls back to the old behavior ...
11:08	<ogra> but thats apparently not gonna happen
11:09	a) is used by NX ...
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11:11	<vmlintu> The pam option would solve quite a few problems I've encountered so I'm willing to spend time on that if needed
11:11	<sbalneav> ogra: I'm perfectly willing to take a stab again at talking to the OpenSSH devels about fixing the SSH_ASKPASS mechanism which would be the BEST way, by fare.
11:11	by far even
11:11	<ogra> ++
11:11	<Gadi> I understand their concern, tho
11:12	though, dont they do fake X-auth stuff already?
11:12	;)
11:12	as an option
11:13	* vagrantc sighs
11:13	<vmlintu> ssh has also one more limitation - you cannot change the username of the user logging in in the pam stack. With gdm one can do that easily.
11:13	<vagrantc> it's been too long since i've seen y'all face to face.
11:13	<Gadi> we can always have an ssh "patch" ;)
11:13	<sbalneav> Gadi: Yeah, the distros will LOVE that :)
11:13	<jammcq> vagrantc: do you know the details about Debconf-2010 yet? Last I heard, it was gonna be in NYC
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11:13	<ogra> Gadi, the do an X proxy there is no xauth involved at the handshake level afaik
11:13	<Gadi> or: ltsp-sshd
11:14	:)
11:14	* ogra would prefer to have SSH_ASKPASS_X upstream ;)
11:14	<ogra> vagrantc, you should have come .... you could have shared the taxi with eharrison ;)
11:15	<vagrantc> pfft.
11:15	<sbalneav> ogra: Well, lets see if we can make contact with the OpenSSh developers again over the next day or so.
11:15	<vagrantc> taxi from portland to portland?
11:15	<ogra> heh
11:15	no, but they couldnt land in bangor (or whereever he was suposed to land) so they landed somewhere far out and the airline paid a tai to here
11:16	*taxi
11:16	was like a 2h ride or so
11:27	<asmok> Hello, are you all already there? I got some interesting to discuss ;-)
11:29	<sbalneav> We're here, discuss away
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11:30	<vagrantc> even those who aren't here are here
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11:30	<sbalneav> asmok: Go ahead, what do you want to discuss?
11:31	Do it now, since we're discussing the agenda now.
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11:31	<asmok> You know, Akademy 2010 will be here in Finland, Tampere next summer: http://dot.kde.org/2009/10/06/akademy-2010-dates-announced
11:32	I have green light from Coss.fi and Akademy-Team to set up Ltsp-Cluster Cafe/Lab for whole week
11:33	<sbalneav> nice
11:33	<vagrantc> sbalneav: i'm sure it's on the agenda ... but the way hardware is going, freegeek will likely be moving to fatclients
11:34	so i'll probably be diving into fatclients in the near future ...
11:34	<sbalneav> Really? Any reason?
11:34	<asmok> My idea is that KDE developers can test their applications in real lab, in LTSP-Cluster to see and find out how good/bad KDE/application works with LTSP5
11:34	<vagrantc> sbalneav: can't get powerful enough servers.
11:34	<sbalneav> ah :)
11:34	<vagrantc> sbalneav: and have pleny of very powerful desktops.
11:35	the lowest machine we typically keep is 1.8GHz
11:35	<sbalneav> asmok: One of the things we're talking about is getting proper D-Bus support into LTSP, which should improve KDE support immensely
11:36	<asmok> Now my real question: Who from you - core developers - will come to Tampere and face all the KDE core developers eye to eye ;-))
11:36	<sbalneav> asmok: Any kind of financial support available?
11:37	i.e. sponsorship for flights, hotel, etc?
11:37	<asmok> I believe so, see all the business behind Coss.fi: http://www.coss.fi/en/node/631
11:38	<vagrantc> sbalneav: i added server/ltsp-info ... but it currently only supports Debian ... other distros may want to add support (ubuntu can probably steal what i have for debian wholesale).
11:38	sbalneav: the idea was to have a single tool that we can refer people to for the pastebot when troubleshooting
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11:39	<vagrantc> that's in ltsp-trunk
11:39	put it together after a discussion with johnny and someone else
11:40	<sbalneav> cool
11:40	<asmok> I have talked with Aaron J. Seigo about this idea, I asked hi about drop in your Hackfest and he did say: "The only official decisions that
11:40	could matter are whether we get a full "track" for this or if we do it on "our
11:40	own" in one of the hacking rooms that are available to be booked. The only
11:40	difference between the two is that if it becomes an "official track" then it
11:40	gets a bit more publicity and probably more funding. But Akademy, like KDE
11:40	itself, has always been a "what gets done is what people do" kind of affair.
11:40	So let's just do it, and we can figure out how it fits into the bigger picture
11:40	of Akademy as we go."
11:41	We are in very early stage, but I do believe in my idea ;-)
11:41	<vagrantc> asmok: the biggest thing the LTSP crowd always wants to nudge desktop environments is to not assume you have swap space and a lot of ram.
11:41	<sbalneav> right.
11:42	<vagrantc> asmok: things like pixmap caching are brutal to LTSP.
11:42	<johnny> brutal is right
11:43	i hope reorienting everything as is being done now helps
11:43	<Gadi> yeah! especially the good pixmaps!
11:43	<johnny> seems like they are making stuff even more modular in X/kernel
11:43	who's keeping up with how all these developments relate to ltsp?
11:43	* Gadi points to johnny
11:43	<Gadi> ;)
11:44	<johnny> Gadi, if i understood most of it.. that would help wouldn't it :)
11:44	<asmok> Let's hack these things in Tampere ;-) You know, I'm no developer but I do love see you guys in Finland ;-)
11:44	* vagrantc typically gets a 1-2 year advance warning from johnny on new features
11:44	<johnny> so i've already been doing it? lol
11:44	<jammcq> asmok: what's the date of that conf ?
11:45	<johnny> vagrantc, of course you should try booting fedora once every 6 months
11:45	vagrantc, any word on upstart in debian yet?
11:45	<kusznir> Hi all: So, I have one application, which is central to my computing needs, that generates a LOT of screen refreshes. Moreover, its important that the screen refreshes be executed in a timely fashion and NOT grouped together.
11:45	<asmok> jammcq, "After taking in to account local constraints the dates of Sat 3rd - Sat 10th July were decided to be most appropriate, with Friday the 2nd July being the main day for arriving."
11:46	<vagrantc> johnny: you'll probably know about it before i do :P
11:46	<Gadi> asmok: any fireworks in Finland?
11:46	<kusznir> When I run through ldm as normal (X sessions tunneled through ssh), then the updates get bundled together, about 5 in a set. This makes the application basically unusable.
11:47	<vagrantc> kusznir: have you tried with LDM_DIRECTX ?
11:47	<asmok> jammcq, you remember this: "So, if we held a LTSP Hackfest in Europe, we could count on seeing you there?" ;-))
11:47	<jammcq> asmok: oh yes, definately
11:47	<kusznir> If I turn off encryption (DIRECTX) it works a lot better...but on older clients that have 100base-T instead of Gig, the problem is still present.
11:48	<vagrantc> i might be able to make something in europe next year, although i was sort of hoping to make it back to FISL in brazil
11:48	<jammcq> asmok: i'm trying to keep track of all of the events for next summer. DebConf-2010 will be in NewYork city. FISL-11 will be in Brazil
11:48	<Gadi> kusznir: did you fix the libxcb stuff?
11:48	<kusznir> If it is in fact moving that much data, I figured that I'll probably max out portions of the network and my server with 2-4 clients (plan was to run 8).
11:48	Gadi: yes, as best as I can tell, its all installed.
11:48	<jammcq> scotty and I talked about holding the LTSP European hackfest in 2011, if things are too busy in 2010
11:49	<vagrantc> sbalneav, jammcq: did you ever dig up some slides for andrew lee, the LXDE maintainer?
11:49	<jammcq> umm... no, sorry I didn't. the problem is, my slides are Soooo old
11:49	<Gadi> kusznir: do you know what video output the application uses? x11? xv? gl?
11:50	<sbalneav> vagrantc: I might have some, hold on...
11:50	<vagrantc> debconf 11 might be in germany. if i could hit two conferences in one trip, that makes things much better
11:50	<kusznir> Umm..its python with cairo, but beyond that, I don't know.
11:50	<Gadi> kusznir: is you launch gnome-properties and play with the video sink, does it make a difference?
11:50	<jammcq> vagrantc: would make great sense to try and piggyback a LTSP hackfest onto another event
11:50	<Gadi> *if
11:50	<kusznir> Gadi: never tried that! I'll take a look.
11:51	<vagrantc> jammcq: always a good idea, yes. :)
11:51	<Gadi> jammcq: yeah -like a beer parade
11:51	<jammcq> Gadi: yes, exactly. btw, we could always go back to Portland :)
11:52	* vagrantc would be happy to host another event in portland
11:52	<vagrantc> AndrewLee: oh, hi! :)
11:52	<Gadi> kusznir: I actually meant gstreamer-properties
11:52	hope you got that
11:53	<kusznir> Gadi: Ok, I'll look there. Should the results be noticable if I turn directx back off?
11:53	And do those options interplay with other things, such as 3d acceleration?
11:54	<jammcq> vagrantc: are you inclined to go to Debconf-2010 ?
11:54	<vagrantc> jammcq: absolutely!
11:54	<jammcq> yeah, figured you'd be there. scotty and I are talking about being there.
11:54	at least for a couple days
11:54	<vagrantc> jammcq: i'll go by train, which frees me up to fly somewhere else, too
11:56	<Gadi> kusznir: ur not oging to get 3D acceleration, if thats what you're after
11:56	<kusznir> (As I recall, someone had made a system for intercepting 3d calls on the server, rendering them with video hardware on the server, then streaming them over its own, special protocol, and inserting them back into the xserver on the thin client)
11:56	<jammcq> brb, gotta head to the store for some snacks
11:56	<Gadi> that usually require direct rendering
11:56	<asmok> So you have Akademy 2010/LTSP-Cluster Lab in your Agenda?
11:57	<kusznir> Gadi: This app is not 3d, and I'm not really after that...I'm just trying to find ways to reduce the rendering overhead of this app...
11:57	<Gadi> kusznir: well, you can look at virtualgl
11:57	ah, ok
11:58	<kusznir> I've noticed on a normal workstation with an ATI card installed, but running the radeon (open sourced/non-3d drivers) installed, it used 100% of cpu and was really bad. But when I installed the ATI closed source drivers, it dropped cpu utilization to 30%. This was one test with one video card, and none of us knew enough to look into the details of how its rendering/why it helped.
11:58	(for example, was it just a bug/poor implementation of one aspect of the radeon driver?).
11:58	<Gadi> ah, well keep in mind a few things
11:59	<johnny> probably..
11:59	<Gadi> 1. driver options (man radeon, for example)
11:59	<kusznir> Our target thin clients are DevonIT TS5's, which utilize an Intel 945-based graphics card. I don't know if some things can be offloaded to that chipset to improve performance, or what.
11:59	<johnny> stuff is changing quickly
11:59	<Gadi> 2. video "language" matters - like x11 versus xv, etc
11:59	<johnny> good to try open drivers every release or so..
11:59	<Gadi> but only with DIRECTX on
12:00	because the ssh Xproxy can kill many things
12:00	:)
12:00	<kusznir> Ahh..Ok.
12:00	<Gadi> 3. If you are doing real video (with audio) the player and the file format also make a difference
12:01	because the player will often times try to sync video and audio
12:01	which can reduce quality depending upon the player and the format
12:01	<kusznir> I guess I was thinking that it would be good if there was some way to "compress" the data stream for the clients a bit so there's less network and I/O bus limitations (ideally it would be decompressed directly at the graphics card), and improvements in scalability.
12:01	<Gadi> well, if you use xv instead of x11, for example, there should be fewer video instructions, so less bandwidth used
12:02	even if both are uncompressed
12:02	you can also save on bandwidth a lot by dropping color depth to 16 bit
12:02	even if just for those clients
12:02	<kusznir> Gadi: this actually isn't videos; its a visualization tool for our smarthome data (http://www.ailab.wsu.edu/smarthome). its an svg of the floor plan with red dots where we have sensors, and as events are played back, the dots either are drawn red or transparent. The key is we need each event to be rendered seperately. (we are rendering only the small region where the dot is at).
12:03	<Gadi> whats the size of the svg?
12:03	<kusznir> Gadi: dropping color depth is a good one; I hadn't thought of that before. Is there a way to do it dynamically? (These clients will be used part-time for this program, and part-time for "normal office/web use"
12:04	about 39K
12:04	<Gadi> if its only refreshing part of the screen, I dont see bandwidth being an issue
12:05	are you refreshing just the dots or the whole svg background?
12:05	<kusznir> Later today we're going to try dropping a gig card into the older clients and see if that fixes the problem or not...I don't know of any other way to really test it.
12:08	We have a TC5 that with directx on, works fine. When we put a "repurposed desktop" (older Dell, P3-800+ with 10/100 onboard NIC), performance drops back to about the same level as running on the TC5 without directx.
12:08	<Gadi> make sure your old dell isnt using the vesa driver
12:09	whatever you use should use an appropriate driver with 2D acceleration
12:11	<kusznir> Ok. One of the Dell's is running an older nvidia card (5000-series), but I'm pretty sure it does NOT have the nvidia binary drivers; the other is using onboard, which I believe is intel i810 hardware)
12:11	I haven't really figured out how to do X settings like dirver, or dual-head yet.
12:12	Best my gooling has turned up is that I need to build a custom X config file for each type of thin client, and do lts.conf enteries for the clients telling them to use the special xorg.conf.
12:12	<Gadi> no, no
12:12	we do beeter than that ;)
12:12	*better
12:13	XSERVER = <driver>
12:13	for the video driver
12:13	<kusznir> Gadi: yea, it makes sense that it would be! I don't remmeber it being that hard on 4.2
12:13	<asmok> jammcq, Have any core developers been in any pure KDE conference before?
12:13	<Gadi> X_COLOR_DEPTH = 16
12:13	for color depth
12:14	XRANDR_* (a bunch of XRANR_ prefixed vars for mode setting and multi-monitor)
12:14	and if your driver is Xrandr-inept, you can use:
12:14	XRANDR_DISABLE=True
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12:14	<Gadi> X_MODE_0=1024x768
12:14	etc
12:15	just specify your different machines by MAC addy in lts.conf
12:15	and away you go
12:15	<kusznir> Cool...Is there an easy way to tell the intel 945 to do dual-head?
12:15	<Gadi> yeah, intel's one of the better one
12:15	*ones
12:15	<kusznir> (that's another fix-it that's been on my to-do list all month, haven't quite addressed it yet)
12:16	<Gadi> usually, youjust need to set: X_VIRTUAL
12:16	for the virtual memory
12:16	so, say you want 2 1024x768s, you can set:
12:16	X_VIRTUAL = "2048 2048"
12:17	it should handle the rest
12:17	or you can specify XRANDR_* variable to fine tune things
12:18	<kusznir> Cool, I'm going to go try some of this now, thanks!
12:18	<Gadi> (with multi-heads, the Xserver needs to know ahead of time how much memory to allocate)
12:18	have fun!
12:20	<kusznir> Ahh..that might explain my problem: xrandr only shows 1 monitor connected, and doesn't even show the second connection option (I have two DVI ports, it shows VGA disconnected, TV disconnected, and only LVD-1 around.
12:20	<Gadi> what is the other output you want to enable called?
12:21	<kusznir> LVD-2, IIRC
12:22	<Gadi> probably LVDS-2
12:22	try this:
12:22	XRANDR_OUTPUT_0 = "LVDS-1"
12:23	XRANDR_OUTPUT_1 = "LVDS-2 --right-of LVDS-1"
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12:31	<bulletxt> hi, this might be more a gnome question but, is it possible to change default desktop image for all users without manually logging in all of them?
12:32	<Gadi> sure - using gconf-editor
12:32	<alkisg> bulletxt: yes, with gconf-editor
12:32	<Gadi> (for gnome)
12:32	<bulletxt> great
12:32	so I start gconf-editor from the ltsp server?
12:32	<alkisg> sudo gconf-editor => find background => right click => set as mandatory
12:32	<Gadi> I usually do sudo gconf-editor
12:33	and listen to alkisg
12:33	;)
12:33	<bulletxt> nice, what else can I change with gconf-editr?
12:33	<Gadi> just about everything gnome
12:33	:)
12:33	<bulletxt> perfect:)
12:33	thanks
12:33	<alkisg> It's in this key: /desktop/gnome/background
12:33	<bulletxt> ok
12:34	* alkisg wishes he was in BTS instead of here, answering questions... :(
12:35	* Gadi too
12:38	<asmok> alkisg, did you see my proposal? - read logs.
12:39	* Gadi pokes stgraber
12:40	<alkisg> asmok: about meeting in Finland? That'd be great!
12:41	<asmok> alkisg, Come to Tampere and build that LTSP-Cluster Lab with me!
12:41	* alkisg thinks that LTSP-Cluster is a great idea, but has no use for it, as all labs here have at most 12 PCs.. :)
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12:45	<asmok> alkisg, But if those guys have to choose between cold cold Finland and hot, oh so hot Brazil - I will loose ;-)
12:48	<Gadi> can we stay in an ice hotel?
12:49	<asmok> Gadi_eeepc, Of course: http://www.snowcastle.net/en/ !
12:51	<Gadi> sweet
12:54	<asmok> BTW - that town where snowcastle is in winter time, will turn all the schools in LTSP/LTSP-Cluster, we will have workshop in spring for that
12:55	<Gadi> wow
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13:09	* Gadi sets fire to stgraber's chair
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13:23	<ermeyers> I'm having problems getting thin clients to properly shutdown or reboot. Halt works, in that it halts.
13:25	<ogra> it doesnt work if you use the shutdown button from LDM ?
13:26	<Gadi> ermeyers: what distro/version?
13:26	<johnny> so.. is it feasible to merge local and remote dbus yet.. i wonder..
13:26	<ogra> nope
13:27	the plan is to only use the TC system dbus instead of the server one ... and make the session dbus connect to that through the tunnel
13:27	<johnny> it would be cool to solve that problem..
13:27	<ogra> merging is a kind of step 2 thing :)
13:27	<johnny> but what about server devices?
13:27	like hard drives
13:27	err usb keys
13:28	<ermeyers> ogra: No. The reboot and shutdown options from the ldm, and command line shutdown -r or -h and reboot and poweroff ALL don't work. Using 9.04 alternate.
13:28	<johnny> do you still need acpid in there for that?
13:28	<Gadi> acpid was only needed for the power button
13:28	<johnny> ah..
13:28	<Gadi> ermeyers: do you get squashfs errors?
13:30	<ermeyers> gadi: At boot up there are all kinds of weird i/o-mishaps of some sort. But it generally works fine.
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13:31	<ermeyers> I just want to reboot remotely.
13:31	<Gadi> I meant when you click shutdown or reboot on ldm
13:31	reboot remotely? as in ssh in and reboot it?
13:32	<ermeyers> Gadi, No errors are indicated at shutdown or reboot. Yes ssh in.
13:33	<ogra> johnny, you shouldnt
13:33	<johnny> ogra, i mean.. what if you want to make that available
13:33	<ogra> the kernel should just expose the button through udev nowadays
13:33	acpid shouldnt be needed ....
13:34	though you know what shouldnt means ;)
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13:34	<ermeyers> ogra: I'm pretty sure that the apci on these machines is out of date.
13:35	<ogra> shutdown and reboot without options will definately cause probs
13:35	you need to ise poweroff -fp or reboot -fp
13:35	*use
13:36	a normal shutdown will call the shutdown scripts and pretty much die a horrible death once the rootfs is gone
13:36	(which happens before the shutdown/reboot process is finished when you use the initscripts)
13:36	<ermeyers> shutdown -r -t 3 now or shutdown -h -t 3 now don't work. The /etc/init.d/reboot has reboot -d -f -i which doesn't work. I've tried em all.
13:37	<ogra> right
13:37	dont use the initscripts
13:37	use either of the commands i wrote above
13:37	<ermeyers> IT uses the initscripts. I'll try those. Thanks.
13:38	<ogra> if you use localapps make sure the sshfs that mounts the users home gets unmounted first to avoid file corruption
13:38	<ermeyers> Yep nothing local.
13:38	<ogra> good
13:39	<ermeyers> Thanks ogra. Let you know, if I find you.
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13:39	<ogra> then just reboot -fp or poweroff -fp should do the trick ... if not, you have a kernel prob and need to play with kernel cmdline options until it works right
13:39	hrm
13:43	<Gadi> of course, there's always: echo b>/proc/sysrq-trigger
13:43	;)
13:43	talk about nasty
13:43	:)
13:44	<asmok> Have to go, keep hacking
13:44	asmok has left #ltsp
13:46	<ogra> jammcq, http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technology/iandouglas/100003630/microsoft-gets-the-windows-7-party-started/
13:47	and i just got pointed to a very nice ripoff of that (but you need to watch the above first if you havent seen it yet): http://www.funnyordie.co.uk/videos/ef83afc272/hosting-your-windows-7-torrenting-party
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16:03	<bulletxt> is it a good idea to install ubuntu with ltsp , then install kde4, and then make clients boot with kde4? I mean, did someone try it?
16:07	mgariepy has joined #ltsp
16:07	<ogra> you dont "boot" clients with gnome or KDE :)
16:08	the clients boot independently of what desktop is installed server side
16:10	<bulletxt> ogra: yes sorry, what I meant is: are there problems "loading" kde4 instead of gnome? maybe there won't be audio right? since it doesnt use pulseaudio
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16:11	<ogra> i think there are lots of probs with kde4 by design ... at least based on what people report here many of them have issues using the 4.x version
16:11	<bulletxt> I have no problems with kde4 :) I'm just scared of issues with ltsp + kde4 clients :)
16:12	for example, ltsp automatically changes gnome's menu for localapps, does it do it even for kde4?
16:14	<ogra> it doesnt change gnomes menu :)
16:14	it uses the fredesktop xdg mechanism
16:14	*free
16:15	<bulletxt> ogra: oh.. yea I said a stupid thing
16:15	<ogra> so kde should pick up localapps too
16:15	<bulletxt> yea
16:15	i'm afraid the only real issue there can be is that audio won't work
16:16	* ogra just saw n amarok bug being closedn ubuntu for kde4+ltsp
16:16	<ogra> so i gess audio somehow works
16:17	<bulletxt> cool, I guess I'll have to try it
16:17	<ogra> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/453014
16:18	<bulletxt> ogra: but there is something I don't understand, if you install kubuntu ltsp server, it must install even pulseaudio I suppose , something that kubuntu "normal" install doesnt do
16:18	<ogra> no
16:18	you dont need pulse on the server, it's onl used on the client side
16:19	what your desktop needs to know is that it should forward all sound to the pulse server that runs on the client
16:20	<bulletxt> so do you mean it will install pulseaudio? on normal kubuntu installation it doesnt
16:20	at least, not on kubuntu 9.04
16:20	maybe it does with 9.10
16:22	I'll download it now and put it in a vbox, I'm curious to see what it does
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16:34	<ZiLg0> grettings
16:34	is everyone afk?
16:35	guess so
16:35	* ogra looks around ...
16:35	<ZiLg0> yah yah!
16:35	<ogra> at least 0 ppl are hacking on their keyboards here atm
16:35	heh
16:35	*10
16:35	<ZiLg0> pgoods
16:35	I need some help
16:35	<ogra> and i would suppose most of them are in the channel
16:36	<ZiLg0> or support that is
16:36	<ogra> just throw in your question, if someone knows the answer, he will answer
16:37	<ZiLg0> kk
16:38	"I am Sathya from Dell IT. Response to your issue with RAVPN while at home (ISP), the issue would be with LSTP protocol. Looks like the said protocol is not released/ blocked.
16:38	"
16:39	I work fo a WISP the Customer works for dell he is using VPN
16:39	He has connections Issues
16:39	I need to support LSTP which I am supposing is this LTSP and not another
16:40	<johnny> what is lstp ?
16:40	<chrisinajar> sounds like you gots the wrong channel :P
16:40	<ogra> what exactly is the problem, what are the symptoms ?
16:40	* chrisinajar googles LSTP
16:40	<chrisinajar> Lake Superior Trading Post
16:40	no google, no.
16:40	<ZiLg0> I am a little confused because I would asume that LTSP is wrapted in the VPN connection so it would not matter if we have the port blocked fowarded or what not
16:40	hahah
16:41	<johnny> ZiLg0, what is lstp ?
16:41	<ZiLg0> I did and this was what I assume it stands for
16:41	<johnny> answer the question :)
16:41	<ogra> well, tell us about your symptoms
16:41	<ZiLg0> for get it, that you johnny
16:41	<ogra> do the clients boot or not ?
16:41	<ZiLg0> thank you
16:41	<ogra> do they boot but you cant log in in the login manager ?
16:42	can you log in but have issues running the desktop ?
16:42	what exactly is your prob ?
16:42	<johnny> ah.. ogra you are in east coast time now :)
16:42	i'm suprised you are here :)
16:42	then i remembered
16:42	<ZiLg0> the problem is the VPN client drops after about 4 minits of connection
16:42	<johnny> ok.. dinner time..
16:43	<ogra> johnny, yeah, shame on you you didnt come
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16:43	<ZiLg0> LSTP is what Dell reported, I was re-directed to LTSP by google
16:43	<johnny> ogra, i didn't have a sponser :)
16:43	sponsor*
16:43	<ogra> johnny, me neither
16:43	<johnny> or any money :)
16:43	ok.. seriously.. dinner time
16:44	<ogra> i just didnt eat for three weeks and had the money together
16:44	<johnny> i'll bbiab
16:44	<ZiLg0> at least I got the room hopping
16:44	<chrisinajar> well, most of us are in the same physical room, you happened to have jumped on during LTSP By The Sea!
16:45	<ZiLg0> thanks
16:45	<chrisinajar> the chatter of keyboards in here is where the party is at.
16:45	<ZiLg0> all
16:45	-= out
16:45	ZiLg0 has left #ltsp
16:45	<ogra> ??
16:45	<chrisinajar> he has a question about something insane
16:45	with VPN's
16:45	i'm still curious as to what it was though...
16:45	wish he has stuck around...
16:45	*had
16:46	<ogra> i wish he had explained his prob more closely
16:46	and i dont get why he left
16:47	<chrisinajar> his vpn thing was blocking lstp or something like that, he didn't actually intend to join LTSP, google just told him he meant this :P
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16:51	<GodFather> orga: when you have time could you provide those references, thx
16:51	<ogra> oh, right
16:53	ogra_ has joined #ltsp
16:54	<ogra_> GodFather, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
16:55	ogra has quit IRC
16:55	ogra_ is now known as ogra
16:55	<GodFather> ogra: Thanks
16:56	<vagrantc> alkisg: so, i'm hankerin to get gPXE uploaded to debian ... but we need to review a messload of files for licensing issues first.
16:56	<alkisg> vagrantc: nice! Can't the people at #gpxe help with that?
16:57	(and, I don't think _all_ the files are needed, e.g. many firmware files could be left out, couldn't they?)
16:57	<vagrantc> alkisg: they've done some nice things, yes.
16:57	alkisg: i'm hoping to don't have to repack the tarball with some things stripped ... but will if we have to.
16:58	<ogra> as long as yo do it in debian and we dont have to do it over again in ubuntu :P
16:58	<vagrantc> heh.
16:58	seemed to work for ltsp-docs :)
16:59	<alkisg> Hmmm debian non-free accepts closed source software if they have redistribution rights, right?
16:59	<vagrantc> alkisg: i don't want to mess with non-free. it'll require just as much work to review.
17:00	<alkisg> Then I guess you'll have to strip some stuff from the tarball..
17:00	<vagrantc> you sure?
17:00	<alkisg> No, not at all :)
17:00	<vagrantc> the main issue is it just needs review.
17:01	<sbalneav> was there a licensing problem with ltsp-docs?
17:01	<vagrantc> there seems to be some sort of infrastructure for it, if we can trust it
17:01	sbalneav: nope.
17:01	<sbalneav> Good :)
17:01	<vagrantc> sbalneav: well, small ones, that i just fixed.
17:01	<sbalneav> Yeah, how did you manage to get the authors page looking so nice?
17:01	<vagrantc> sbalneav: we should consider a 1.0 release or something. :)
17:01	<sbalneav> What had I mucked up with that?
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17:02	<vagrantc> sbalneav: i don't even remember. it's in the commit history :)
17:02	<sbalneav> vagrantc: Let me run this by you. There seemed to be general concensus today (unless I misread it) that we should:
17:02	<vagrantc> sbalneav: i think there were inconsistancies between one of the files and the main xml file ... i just changed them to match in the easiest way.
17:03	<sbalneav> 1) Do a final review of lts-parameters.txt to make sure there's nothing in there that ISN'T in lts.conf.xml
17:03	2) Remove lts-parameters.txt, and replace it with a note indicating to install the ltsp-docs package
17:04	3) beat LTSP devels with a limp noodle to update lts.conf.xml from now on
17:04	Thoughts?
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17:05	<vagrantc> section 3 could use something more harsh, but sure. :)
17:06	<sbalneav> ok, well, later on tonight, I may do the review, then, with everyone's approval, move forward on that.
17:06	I'll announce when I'm starting the process
17:07	<vagrantc> there will likely be translation updates trickling in over the next 2 weeks or so... but those shouldn't break anything.
17:11	<sbalneav> super
17:12	<alkisg> vagrantc: have you looked at the fedora gpxe package?
17:12	<vagrantc> alkisg: nope.
17:13	<ogra> they should actually have the licenses in it :)
17:14	<vagrantc> alkisg: i don't really know how fedora goes about handling license issues.
17:14	<alkisg> Me neither, but it's possible that they've already done the job...
17:15	<vagrantc> alkisg: or how they document it. it usually seems pretty sparse, from what i've looked at before.
17:15	<ogra> they exclude stuff that doesnt match their policy
17:15	like ... completely
17:16	<vagrantc> hm. i've managed to avoid installing rpm on this system...
17:16	that's what virtual machines are for
17:16	<alkisg> http://rpmfind.net//linux/RPM/fedora/devel/src/gpxe-0.9.7-6.fc12.src.html
17:18	Grrr file-roller can't unzip rpms :(
17:19	<ogra> huh ?
17:19	sure it can
17:19	siki has joined #ltsp
17:19	<ogra> at least it could once
17:20	<alkisg> I can't even find anything else than can unzip rpm in synaptic... OK, it's googling time...
17:21	<ogra> rpm -blah \|cpio -blupp
17:21	somethin like that should do it on cmdline
17:21	<vagrantc> evil.
17:22	<ogra> ah, it was rpm2cpio <pkg>.rpm \| cpio -vid
17:23	* alkisg was trying with 7zip under wine :D
17:30	<alkisg> vagrantc: once I had asked about licensing in #gpxe, and they told me this, among other things: "mcb30 has recently added explicit license overview support (they mention it in the email thread). You can do make bin/virtio-net.rom.licence to get a breakdown of the licensing situation."
17:31	<vagrantc> alkisg: yes, i read that in the bug report... and it's ... not very useful.
17:31	<alkisg> Uhm
17:31	<vagrantc> alkisg: it only works for roms, and you have to specify it for each rom seperately, and it doesn't give any copyright info, just the licensing ...
17:32	alkisg: and the few licenses i;ve looked at at inconsistant with the headers produced by make *.licence
17:32	<alkisg> Ouch
17:32	So contact with the devs will be necessary, right?
17:33	<vagrantc> yeah, probably.
17:34	<alkisg> And, once all the licensing issues are solved, is it sure to be accepted in Debian?
17:34	<vagrantc> it's good for an overview of what type of license covers a given rom, but not the other parts of the code, and not the actual licence itself.
17:34	alkisg: very likely.
17:35	alkisg: i don't even expect (many) issues, it's just a matter of reviewing over 1000 files.
17:35	not something i'm going to take on alone.
17:35	<ogra> cant you roll a pckage and let lintian do it ?
17:36	<vagrantc> there's licensecheck, sure. but that's just a rough draft.
17:36	<alkisg> I'd like to help, but I'd prefer it if this was done 3-4 months later on...
17:36	<vagrantc> copyright review really is a human task.
17:36	to do well
17:37	actually, licensecheck seems to catch most of them.
17:37	still doesn't get the copyright info ...
17:38	only 470 files that come up as UNKNOWN.
17:38	<alkisg> Heh
17:38	<vagrantc> and 740 that come up with some sort of information
17:39	most of them have old GPL headers.
17:40	<alkisg> ogra, so, gpxe licensing issues would have to be solved first if I were to have any chances in convincing the ubuntu people to put gpxe as a boot option in the live cd, right? :D
17:41	<ogra> well, "the ubuntu people" would still have asked you to get the package into debian first :)
17:42	<alkisg> Damn the gpxe devs for not taking care of their launtry themselves :D
17:43	vagrantc, can you estimate how many days would be needed to review all those files?
17:43	<vagrantc> ok, licensecheck has some useful options i didn't know about before.
17:48	<ogra> :)
17:49	<jammcq> :)
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17:53	* alkisg calls it a day... happy lobster eating, you all! :D
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19:01	<stgraber> sbalneav: nbdswapd: ALL: keepalive
19:01	sbalneav: in /etc/hosts.allow
19:01	<vagrantc> stgraber: i thought you said that didn't actually work.
19:01	hence the monitor_nbd and all that
19:02	<stgraber> vagrantc: that's just for the swap stuff
19:02	vagrantc: copy/pasting that to scott so it adds it to the oc ;)
19:02	*doc
19:02	*he adds
19:03	(my english sucks tonight it seems ...)
19:03	<ogra> vagrantc, it does work ... remember, we looked into it ... its just that the timeout value is set to something insanely high by default
19:03	stgraber, yeah, sam adams taints your tongue :)
19:04	<sbalneav> vagrantc: Did you say that X_COLOR_DEPTH now defaults to 24 in Debian?
19:04	vagrantc: Oh, and by the way, I'm going through lts-parameters.txt
19:06	<ogra> vagrantc, it should timeout after 131min if you use "nbdrootd: ALL: keepalive"
19:11	<sbalneav> vagrantc: png
19:12	Paging doctor vagrantc, paging doctor vagrantc, please come to the ICU ward for a consultation.
19:12	<vagrantc> sbalneav: more like Debian just goes with the defaults.
19:12	sbalneav: which i think is typically 24
19:13	<sbalneav> ok
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19:13	<sbalneav> So, I've brought lts.conf.xml into line with lts-parameters.txt
19:13	<vagrantc> we used to hard-code it to 16 by default... but no longer.
19:13	<sbalneav> Can I replace lts-paramertes.txt with a blurb to install the ltsp-docs package?
19:13	<ogra> and nobody complained about the immensely high hardware demands ?
19:14	<vagrantc> ogra: heh. not yet :)
19:14	<sbalneav> ogra: quit teasing vagrant :)
19:14	<ogra> sbalneav, why, i have to overcome my frustration being here without him :P
19:15	<vagrantc> ogra: i think i had stuck the hard-coded 16 in there just before a freeze or something, as that was the default behavior for a long time.
19:15	<ogra> yeah
19:15	<sbalneav> I think the accepted form of dealing with unrequited love is dipping pigtails in inkwells. So I guess both of you will have inky hair :)
19:15	<ogra> i know i used it for ages in ubuntu
19:16	<sbalneav> Soooooooo.... lts-parameters.txt. Can I shoot the puck?
19:16	<vagrantc> sbalneav: slapshot!
19:17	<ogra> wohee
19:17	<sbalneav> ok
19:18	<chrisinajar> sbalneav: i like how your table is the productive table :P
19:19	<ogra> chrisinajar, well, you are not subscribed to all these bugs ...
19:19	my inbox is flowing over thanks to that table ... we need to give these guysmore beer
19:20	<chrisinajar> fact
19:20	I bought some whiskey
19:20	i might break into that soon
19:21	<ogra> scotch ?
19:21	or burbon ?
19:22	<chrisinajar> bourbon
19:22	<ogra> sad
19:22	<chrisinajar> Jim Bean, because they didn't have any knob creek or makers mark in less than a jug...
19:22	and jugs of those are like 60 dollars >.>
19:23	I dig bourbon a lot... scotch is most certainly good too though
19:23	* ogra will rather pick some of rons scotch
19:23	<chrisinajar> well, I guess we'll just have to finish off the bourbon tonight and pick up some scotch for tomorrow night :P
19:24	<cliebow> chrisinajar, you are taling a Jug here...
19:24	<sbalneav> chrisinajar: Well, all the good looking people are over here. And we all know all goodlooking people are also smart.
19:24	<ogra> i have to drive to PWM on sunday very early in the morning and need to be sober, so my whisky evening is tonight
19:25	<sbalneav> As evidenced by Jessica Simpson
19:25	<chrisinajar> cliebow: naw, i got the smallest bottle :P
19:25	2 people could kill it
19:25	<cliebow> weehee!
19:25	<sbalneav> And I am obviously at least as good looking as her.
19:25	err
19:25	well, the male analogue.
19:25	<chrisinajar> if i tried alone i'd die because i'm like 30 pounds
19:26	sbalneav: for sure, that's the second thing i thought when i met you
19:26	the first was "I just met the most canadian person on earth"
19:26	<ogra> stgraber, mkdir -p /dev/pts && mount -t devpts devpts -o noexec,nosuid,gid=5,mode=620 /dev/pts
19:27	stgraber, and umount /dev/pts somewhere at the end
19:27	<sbalneav> eh?
19:27	eh!
19:27	<ogra> eh¡
19:27	<chrisinajar> here comes brendan with some jagermeister
19:27	<ogra> ¿
19:28	<chrisinajar>
19:28	<stgraber> ¿¿¿
19:29	brendan0powers has joined #ltsp
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19:38	vagrantc has quit IRC
19:58	bieb has quit IRC
20:02	Selveste1___ has quit IRC
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20:12	Quietly has quit IRC
20:13	Ahmuck has joined #ltsp
20:14	pmatulis has joined #ltsp
20:17	<sbalneav> Hooray, we've had our first new parameter added post lts-parameters.txt!!!
20:18	<ogra> \o/
20:18	<sbalneav> Thanks to mgariepy!!!
20:18	Everyone give a big hand to our latest ltsp-docwriters member!!!
20:19	<jammcq> mgariepy++
20:19	dtrask has joined #ltsp
20:19	GodFather has joined #ltsp
20:19	bieb1 has joined #ltsp
20:19	<dtrask> what was so clapworthy?
20:20	<jammcq> who's doing that humming?
20:20	scottmaccal has joined #ltsp
20:20	<scottmaccal> eh
20:21	ltspbot has joined #ltsp
20:21	ltspbot has joined #ltsp
20:21	<sbalneav> ltspbot: Where the hell were you you useless slackass?
20:21	ltspbot: Where the hell were you you useless slackass?
20:21	<ltspbot> sbalneav: Error: "Where" is not a valid command.
20:21	sbalneav: Error: "Where" is not a valid command.
20:21	<stgraber> !stgraber
20:21	!stgraber
20:21	<ltspbot> stgraber: Error: "stgraber" is not a valid command.
20:21	<ltspbot`> stgraber: Error: "stgraber" is not a valid command.
20:21	<ltspbot> stgraber: Error: "stgraber" is not a valid command.
20:21	<ltspbot`> stgraber: Error: "stgraber" is not a valid command.
20:21	<stgraber> !stgraber-ppa
20:21	!stgraber-ppa
20:21	<ltspbot> stgraber: "stgraber-ppa" is https://launchpad.net/~stgraber/+archive/ppa
20:21	<ltspbot`> stgraber: "stgraber-ppa" is https://launchpad.net/~stgraber/+archive/ppa
20:21	<ltspbot> stgraber: "stgraber-ppa" is https://launchpad.net/~stgraber/+archive/ppa
20:21	<ltspbot`> stgraber: "stgraber-ppa" is https://launchpad.net/~stgraber/+archive/ppa
20:21	<ogra> bah
20:21	bah
20:22	somebody fix that !
20:22	somebody fix that !
20:22	<stgraber> btw, two more parameters in the doc ;)
20:22	btw, two more parameters in the doc ;)
20:22	GodFather has quit IRC
20:22	GodFather has quit IRC
20:24	<Ahmuck> install karamic ltsp now
20:24	install karamic ltsp now
20:25	er, installing
20:25	er, installing
20:27	pmatulis has quit IRC
20:27	pmatulis has quit IRC
20:27	ltspbot has quit IRC
20:27	<sbalneav> ltspbot`: foo
20:27	<ltspbot`> sbalneav: Error: "foo" is not a valid command.
20:27	<sbalneav> !stgraber-ppa
20:27	<ltspbot`> sbalneav: "stgraber-ppa" is https://launchpad.net/~stgraber/+archive/ppa
20:27	<sbalneav> fixed
20:28	<Ahmuck> server reboot requires client reboot. i assume normal would be logout and wait for server reconnect ?
20:28	been watching bug list e-mails all day
20:29	<ogra> sbalneav, fixed ?
20:30	ltspbot has joined #ltsp
20:30	<sbalneav> ltspbot: karma ogra
20:30	<ltspbot> sbalneav: Error: "karma" is not a valid command.
20:31	<chrisinajar> ltspbot: slay the infidels
20:31	<Ahmuck> no karma for ogra today :)
20:31	<ltspbot> chrisinajar: Error: "slay" is not a valid command.
20:31	<brendan0powers> aww:(
20:31	* chrisinajar tried
20:32	<sbalneav> ogra++
20:33	ltspbot: karma ogra
20:33	<ltspbot> sbalneav: Error: "karma" is not a valid command.
20:33	<ogra> heh
20:33	<sbalneav> hmmm
20:33	<Ahmuck> is the bot running on a windows platform?
20:35	<sbalneav> phhhhhhhhhhhhh
20:35	please
20:37	ltspbot has joined #ltsp
20:37	<sbalneav> ltspbot: karma ogra
20:37	<ltspbot> sbalneav: ogra has neutral karma.
20:38	<sbalneav> ogra++
20:38	ltspbot: karma ogra
20:38	<ltspbot> sbalneav: ogra has neutral karma.
20:38	<ogra> lol
20:38	<sbalneav> ltspbot: ogra++
20:38	ltspbot: karma ogra
20:38	<ltspbot> sbalneav: Karma for "ogra" has been increased 1 time and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 1.
20:38	<jammcq> ltspbot: karma ogra
20:38	<ltspbot> jammcq: Karma for "ogra" has been increased 1 time and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 1.
20:38	<sbalneav> ltspbot: jammcq++
20:38	<Ahmuck> karma Ahmuck
20:38	ltsppbot: karma Ahmuck
20:38	<sbalneav> ltspbot: sbalneav--
20:38	<ltspbot> sbalneav: Error: You're not allowed to adjust your own karma.
20:38	<jammcq> ltspbot: sbalneav+=50
20:38	<ltspbot> jammcq: Error: "sbalneav+=50" is not a valid command.
20:39	<chrisinajar> ltspbot: chrisinajar++
20:39	<ltspbot> chrisinajar: Error: You're not allowed to adjust your own karma.
20:39	<chrisinajar> hahah'
20:39	* chrisinajar tried
20:39	<jammcq> ltspbot: sbalneav++
20:39	<chrisinajar> ltspbot: whiskey++
20:39	<jammcq> ltspbot: sbalneav++
20:39	<sbalneav> ltspbot: karma++
20:39	<chrisinajar> WE BROKED IT
20:39	<jammcq> ltspbot: sbalneav++
20:39	<sbalneav> ltspbot: karma sbalneav
20:39	<ltspbot> sbalneav: Karma for "sbalneav" has been increased 3 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 3.
20:40	<Ahmuck> ltspbot: life++
20:40	<chrisinajar> ltspbot: whiskey++
20:40	WANT
20:40	GodFather has joined #ltsp
20:40	<ogra> !stgraber
20:40	<sbalneav> !stgraber
20:40	<ltspbot> ogra: Error: "stgraber" is not a valid command.
20:40	sbalneav: Error: "stgraber" is not a valid command.
20:40	<ogra> !stgraber-ppa
20:40	<ltspbot> ogra: "stgraber-ppa" is https://launchpad.net/~stgraber/+archive/ppa
20:40	<dtrask> ltspbot: chrisinajar ++
20:40	<brendan0powers> ltspbot: chrisinajar++
20:40	<chrisinajar> ltspbot: brendan0powers++
20:40	<brendan0powers> ltspbot: chrisinajar++
20:40	ltspbot: chrisinajar++
20:40	ltspbot: chrisinajar++
20:40	ltspbot: chrisinajar++
20:40	<chrisinajar> ltspbot: karma chrisinajar
20:40	<ltspbot> chrisinajar: Karma for "chrisinajar" has been increased 5 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 5.
20:41	<sbalneav> ltspbot: learn stgraber as rules
20:41	<ltspbot> sbalneav: The operation succeeded.
20:41	<ogra> !stgraber
20:41	<ltspbot> ogra: "stgraber" is rules
20:41	<sbalneav> !stgraber
20:41	<ltspbot> sbalneav: "stgraber" is rules
20:41	<jammcq> !sbalneav
20:41	<ltspbot> jammcq: Error: "sbalneav" is not a valid command.
20:41	<jammcq> pfff
20:41	<ogra> !s
20:41	<ltspbot> ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
20:41	<sbalneav> !jammcq++
20:41	<jammcq> ah
20:41	<chrisinajar> i need more karma...
20:41	<sbalneav> !karma
20:41	<ltspbot> sbalneav: Highest karma: "chrisinajar" (5), "sbalneav" (3), and "jammcq" (2). Lowest karma: "ogra" (1), "karma" (1), and "life" (1). You (sbalneav) are ranked 2 out of 9.
20:42	<chrisinajar> YEAH
20:42	<sbalneav> !jammcq++
20:42	!karma
20:42	<ltspbot> sbalneav: Highest karma: "chrisinajar" (5), "jammcq" (3), and "sbalneav" (3). Lowest karma: "ogra" (1), "karma" (1), and "life" (1). You (sbalneav) are ranked 2 out of 9.
20:42	<stgraber> ltspbot: sbalneav++
20:42	<ogra> karma++
20:42	<chrisinajar> !chrisinajar++
20:42	<ltspbot> chrisinajar: Error: You're not allowed to adjust your own karma.
20:42	<ogra> !karma++
20:42	<mgariepy> !mgariepy++
20:42	<ltspbot> mgariepy: Error: You're not allowed to adjust your own karma.
20:42	<stgraber> !sbalneav++
20:42	<chrisinajar> !whiskey++
20:42	<ogra> !karma
20:42	<ltspbot> ogra: Highest karma: "sbalneav" (5), "chrisinajar" (5), and "jammcq" (3). Lowest karma: "ogra" (1), "life" (1), and "chrisinajar " (1). You (ogra) are ranked 6 out of 9.
20:42	<jammcq> !karma--
20:42	!karma
20:42	<ltspbot> jammcq: Highest karma: "sbalneav" (5), "chrisinajar" (5), and "jammcq" (3). Lowest karma: "ogra" (1), "karma" (1), and "life" (1). You (jammcq) are ranked 3 out of 9.
20:43	<ogra> !karma--
20:43	!karma
20:43	<ltspbot> ogra: Highest karma: "sbalneav" (5), "chrisinajar" (5), and "jammcq" (3). Lowest karma: "karma" (0), "ogra" (1), and "life" (1). You (ogra) are ranked 5 out of 9.
20:43	<chrisinajar> !whiskey++
20:43	<brendan0powers> !wiskey+
20:43	<ltspbot> brendan0powers: Error: "wiskey+" is not a valid command.
20:43	<Ahmuck> ubuntu ltsp requires recivieving files?
20:43	<brendan0powers> wow
20:43	<Ahmuck> 972 of them?
20:43	<brendan0powers> !whiskey++
20:43	!whiskey++
20:43	<chrisinajar> !dtrask++
20:44	<brendan0powers> !dtrask--
20:44	!dtrask--
20:44	!dtrask--
20:44	!dtrask--
20:44	!dtrask--
20:44	!dtrask--
20:44	!dtrask--
20:44	!dtrask--
20:44	<ogra> !karma
20:44	<ltspbot> ogra: Highest karma: "whiskey" (6), "sbalneav" (5), and "chrisinajar" (5). Lowest karma: "dtrask" (-7), "karma" (0), and "ogra" (1). You (ogra) are ranked 5 out of 10.
20:44	<chrisinajar> hahahahhahahahaha
20:44	<mgariepy> !whiskey++
20:44	<chrisinajar> !whiskey++
20:44	<stgraber> !whiskey++
20:44	<brendan0powers> !whiskey++
20:44	<ogra> !beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:45	<mgariepy> !karma
20:45	<ltspbot> mgariepy: Highest karma: "whiskey" (10), "sbalneav" (5), and "chrisinajar" (5). Lowest karma: "dtrask" (-7), "karma" (0), and "ogra" (1).
20:45	<ogra> !beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:45	<mgariepy> !beer++
20:45	<ogra> !beer++
20:45	<mgariepy> !beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:45	<ogra> !beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:45	<mgariepy> !karma
20:45	<ltspbot> mgariepy: Highest karma: "beer" (19), "whiskey" (10), and "sbalneav" (5). Lowest karma: "dtrask" (-7), "karma" (0), and "ogra" (1).
20:45	<ogra> !beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:45	<stgraber> !karma
20:45	<ltspbot> stgraber: Highest karma: "beer" (29), "whiskey" (10), and "sbalneav" (5). Lowest karma: "dtrask" (-7), "karma" (0), and "ogra" (1).
20:45	<ogra> !beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:45	<mgariepy> !beer--
20:45	!beer--\
20:45	<ogra> !beer++
20:45	<ltspbot> mgariepy: Error: "beer--\" is not a valid command.
20:45	<mgariepy> !beer--\
20:45	<dtrask> dtrask: !wtf ++
20:45	<ltspbot> mgariepy: Error: "beer--\" is not a valid command.
20:45	<mgariepy> !beer--
20:45	<ogra> !beer++
20:45	<mgariepy> !beer--
20:45	<ogra> !beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:45	!beer++
20:46	!beer++
20:46	!beer++
20:46	!beer++
20:46	!beer++
20:46	<mgariepy> !karma
20:46	<ltspbot> mgariepy: Highest karma: "beer" (37), "whiskey" (10), and "sbalneav" (5). Lowest karma: "dtrask" (-7), "karma" (0), and "ogra" (1).
20:46	<ogra> !beer++
20:46	!beer++
20:46	!beer++
20:46	!beer++
20:46	<brendan0powers> !ogra--
20:46	<ogra> !beer++
20:46	!beer++
20:46	<brendan0powers> :)
20:46	<scottmaccal> moxy++
20:46	moxie++
20:48	<chrisinajar> !whiskey++
20:48	!whiskey++
20:48	!whiskey++
20:48	!whiskey++
20:48	!whiskey++
20:48	<ogra> !beer++
20:48	!beer++
20:48	!beer++
20:48	!beer++
20:48	!beer++
20:48	!beer++
20:48	!beer++
20:48	<chrisinajar> ogra: don't make me write a !whiskey++ bot...
20:48	<ogra> hehehe
20:51	ltspbeer has joined #ltsp
20:51	ltspbeer has quit IRC
20:51	ltspbeer has joined #ltsp
20:51	<ltspbeer> !beer++
20:51	<chrisinajar> ogra: because i have a C++ irc bot framework already written :P
20:52	!whiskey++
20:54	ltspbeer1 has joined #ltsp
20:54	<ltspbeer1> !beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	* chrisinajar writes a bash irc bot
20:54	<ltspbeer1> !beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	<Ahmuck> !memory+++
20:54	<ltspbeer1> !beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	jammcq_ has joined #ltsp
20:54	<ltspbeer1> !beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	!beer++
20:54	ltspbeer1 has quit IRC
20:55	<stgraber> !karma
20:55	<ltspbot> stgraber: Highest karma: "beer" (86), "whiskey" (16), and "sbalneav" (5). Lowest karma: "dtrask" (-7), "ogra" (0), and "karma" (0).
20:55	<chrisinajar> hahahahahahahahaha
20:55	AWESOME
20:55	chrisinajar is now known as karmabreaker
20:55	<karmabreaker> !chrisinajar++
20:55	!chrisinajar++
20:55	!chrisinajar++
20:55	!chrisinajar++
20:55	!chrisinajar++
20:55	!chrisinajar++
20:55	!chrisinajar++
20:55	!chrisinajar++
20:55	!chrisinajar++
20:55	!chrisinajar++
20:55	!chrisinajar++
20:56	!chrisinajar++
20:56	!whiskey++
20:56	!whiskey++
20:56	!whiskey++
20:56	!whiskey++
20:56	!whiskey++
20:56	!whiskey++
20:56	!whiskey++
20:56	!whiskey++
20:56	!whiskey++
20:56	!whiskey++
20:56	!whiskey++
20:56	!whiskey++
20:57	!whiskey++
20:57	!whiskey++
20:57	!whiskey++
20:57	!whiskey++
20:57	!whiskey++
20:57	!whiskey++
20:57	karmabreaker is now known as chrisinajar
20:59	jammcq is now known as Guest1248
21:01	jammcq_ has quit IRC
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21:04	<chrisinajar> !whiskey++
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21:14	<sbalneav> !karma
21:14	<ltspbot> sbalneav: Highest karma: "beer" (86), "whiskey" (35), and "chrisinajar" (17). Lowest karma: "dtrask" (-7), "ogra" (0), and "karma" (0). You (sbalneav) are ranked 4 out of 12.
21:15	<sbalneav> !karma sbalneav
21:15	<ltspbot> sbalneav: Karma for "sbalneav" has been increased 5 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 5.
21:17	mgariepy_ has quit IRC
21:20	<sbalneav> !karma
21:20	<ltspbot> sbalneav: Highest karma: "jammcq" (8192), "beer" (86), and "whiskey" (35). Lowest karma: "dtrask" (-7), "ogra" (0), and "karma" (0). You (sbalneav) are ranked 5 out of 12.
21:20	<jammcq> umm.... seems like there is something wrong there
21:20	<sbalneav> I fixed it.
21:21	Seems to me you're better than beer :)
21:21	<jammcq> i'm talking about ogra being '0'. he should be at least 2
21:21	:)
21:21	<sbalneav> !ogra++
21:21	!ogra++
21:21	<jammcq> I agree with everything else :)
21:21	<sbalneav> Now he's two
21:21	<jammcq> ah, feels better that way
21:33	<Ahmuck> ltsp requires two nics ?
21:38	<johnny> are you asking a serious question?
21:39	brendan0powers_ has joined #LTSP
21:39	<brendan0powers_> !
21:39	<chrisinajar> how did you get 8 thousand karma
21:39	<brendan0powers_> oops
21:39	<chrisinajar> what the f is this s
21:39	* brendan0powers_ was just excited
21:40	<chrisinajar> !karma
21:40	<ltspbot> chrisinajar: Highest karma: "jammcq" (8192), "beer" (86), and "whiskey" (35). Lowest karma: "dtrask" (-7), "life" (1), and "brendan0powers" (1). You (chrisinajar) are ranked 4 out of 9.
21:40	<brendan0powers_> for someone who workes on the computer all day, I make a lot of typos
21:42	<ogra> watis ah tipo ?
21:44	<sbalneav> Ahmuck: No, not necessarily
21:44	you can run with just 1
21:45	<brendan0powers_> i keep reading !karma as not-karma
21:45	<Ahmuck> !karma
21:45	<ltspbot> Ahmuck: Highest karma: "jammcq" (8192), "beer" (86), and "whiskey" (35). Lowest karma: "dtrask" (-7), "life" (1), and "brendan0powers" (1).
21:46	<chrisinajar> !karma chrisinajar
21:46	<ltspbot> chrisinajar: Karma for "chrisinajar" has been increased 17 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 17.
21:46	<Ahmuck> interesting. not knowing what the rc looked liked i picked a name that represents the color of the login screen before i saw it
21:46	<brendan0powers_> !chrisinajar-+
21:46	<Ahmuck> my karma is shining tonight
21:46	<ltspbot> brendan0powers_: Error: "chrisinajar-+" is not a valid command.
21:46	<brendan0powers_> aww
21:46	I was hoping for 1 undecided
21:47	<chrisinajar> Ahmuck++
21:47	!Ahmuck++
21:50	<brendan0powers_> brendan sqrt(-1) "test--
21:50	brendan sqrt(-1) "test--
21:50	brendan sqrt(-1) "test--
21:50	brendan sqrt(-1) "test--
21:50	brendan sqrt(-1) "test--
21:50	<chrisinajar> ...
21:50	wtf?
21:50	<brendan0powers_> damn
21:50	<chrisinajar> !karma
21:50	<ltspbot> chrisinajar: Highest karma: "jammcq" (8192), "beer" (86), and "whiskey" (35). Lowest karma: "dtrask" (-7), "life" (1), and "brendan0powers" (1). You (chrisinajar) are ranked 4 out of 10.
21:50	<brendan0powers_> forgot the !
21:50	!brendan sqrt(-1) "test--
21:50	<ltspbot> brendan0powers_: Error: No closing quotation
21:50	<brendan0powers_> !brendan sqrt(-1) "test--
21:50	!brendan sqrt(-1) "test--
21:50	<ltspbot> brendan0powers_: Error: No closing quotation
21:50	brendan0powers_: Error: No closing quotation
21:50	<brendan0powers_> aww
21:51	!brendan sqrt(-1) \"test--
21:51	!brendan sqrt(-1) \"test--
21:51	!brendan sqrt(-1) \"test--
21:51	!brendan sqrt(-1) \"test--
21:51	!brendan sqrt(-1) \"test--
21:51	!brendan sqrt(-1) \"test--
21:51	!brendan sqrt(-1) \"test--
21:51	!brendan sqrt(-1) \"test--
21:51	!brendan sqrt(-1) \"test--
21:51	<chrisinajar> stop haxxing the bot
21:51	<brendan0powers_> !karma
21:51	<ltspbot> brendan0powers_: Highest karma: "jammcq" (8192), "beer" (86), and "whiskey" (35). Lowest karma: "brendan sqrt(-1) \"test" (-9), "dtrask" (-7), and "life" (1).
21:51	<brendan0powers_> aww
21:51	so close
21:51	<chrisinajar> ' OR 1 = '1++
21:51	!' OR 1 = '1++
21:51	!karma
21:51	<ltspbot> chrisinajar: Highest karma: "jammcq" (8192), "beer" (86), and "whiskey" (35). Lowest karma: "brendan sqrt(-1) \"test" (-9), "dtrask" (-7), and "life" (1). You (chrisinajar) are ranked 4 out of 12.
21:52	<chrisinajar> !'; SHOW TABLES; --++
21:52	<brendan0powers_> haha
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21:54	<brendan0powers_> !brendan 'sqrt(-1) ", test'--
21:54	<ltspbot> brendan0powers_: Error: No closing quotation
21:54	<chrisinajar> NOU
21:54	<brendan0powers_> to bad
21:54	no single quote support
21:54	<chrisinajar> !brendan" (12345), "indeed--
21:54	<ltspbot> chrisinajar: Error: No closing quotation
21:55	<brendan0powers_> !brendan " (12345), "indeed--
21:56	so did that work, or not
21:56	!brendan" (12345), " indeed--
21:56	<ltspbot> brendan0powers_: Error: No closing quotation
21:56	<brendan0powers_> !brendan " (12345), "indeed--
21:56	<chrisinajar> !brendan " (pi), "indeed--
21:56	!brendan " (pi), "indeed--
21:56	!brendan " (pi), "indeed--
21:56	!brendan " (pi), "indeed--
21:56	!brendan " (pi), "indeed--
21:56	!brendan " (pi), "indeed--
21:56	!brendan " (pi), "indeed--
21:56	!brendan " (pi), "indeed--
21:56	!brendan " (pi), "indeed--
21:56	!brendan " (pi), "indeed--
21:56	!karma
21:56	<ltspbot> chrisinajar: Highest karma: "jammcq" (8192), "beer" (86), and "whiskey" (35). Lowest karma: "brendan (pi), indeed" (-10), "brendan sqrt(-1) \"test" (-9), and "dtrask" (-7). You (chrisinajar) are ranked 4 out of 15.
21:57	<chrisinajar> !brendan '" (pi), "'indeed--
21:57	<ltspbot> chrisinajar: Error: No closing quotation
21:57	<brendan0powers_> !?????(??>??y??????????????--
21:57	<chrisinajar> hahahahahahahayhahaha
21:57	<brendan0powers_> !?????(??>??y??????????????--
21:57	!?????(??>??y??????????????--
21:57	!?????(??>??y??????????????--
21:57	!?????(??>??y??????????????--
21:57	!?????(??>??y??????????????--
21:57	!?????(??>??y??????????????--
21:57	!?????(??>??y??????????????--
21:57	!?????(??>??y??????????????--
21:57	<jammcq> hey guys
21:57	<brendan0powers_> !?????(??>??y??????????????--
21:57	<jammcq> c'mon
21:57	<brendan0powers_> !?????(??>??y??????????????--
21:57	!?????(??>??y??????????????--
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21:57	<brendan0powers_> !?????(??>??y??????????????--
21:58	<chrisinajar> !karma
21:58	<ltspbot> chrisinajar: Highest karma: "jammcq" (8192), "beer" (86), and "whiskey" (35). Lowest karma: "?????(??>??y??????????????" (-13), "brendan (pi), indeed" (-10), and "brendan sqrt(-1) \"test" (-9). You (chrisinajar) are ranked 4 out of 16.
21:58	<jammcq> I think enough is enough
21:58	<brendan0powers_> !?????(??>??y??????????????--
21:58	!?????(??>??y??????????????--
21:58	!?????(??>??y??????????????--
21:58	!?????(??>??y??????????????--
21:58	!?????(??>??y??????????????--
21:58	!?????(??>??y??????????????--
21:58	!karma
21:58	<ltspbot> brendan0powers_: Highest karma: "jammcq" (8192), "beer" (86), and "whiskey" (35). Lowest karma: "?????(??>??y??????????????" (-19), "brendan (pi), indeed" (-10), and "brendan sqrt(-1) \"test" (-9).
21:58	<brendan0powers_> oh
21:58	oops
21:59	oh well, no unicode
21:59	* brendan0powers_ is done for now
21:59	<chrisinajar> jammcq: sorry, there's a bot and....
21:59	how can we not try to break it...
22:05	<stgraber> !karma
22:05	<ltspbot> stgraber: Highest karma: "jammcq" (8192), "beer" (86), and "whiskey" (35). Lowest karma: "dtrask" (-7), "life" (1), and "Ahmuck" (1).
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22:07	<warren> You folks at BTS this weekend?
22:07	<Ahmuck> nn
22:08	Ahmuck has quit IRC
22:08	<sbalneav> warren: Yes we are
22:08	Gonna show up?
22:08	<warren> sorry I can't go
22:08	<sbalneav> Sad face
22:08	<warren> I know, it is fun there.
22:08	<sbalneav> Gonna come NEXT year?
22:10	<warren> I don't know.
22:10	I'm working on things increasingly further and further away from LTSP.
22:10	and busier than ever.
22:13	<sbalneav> Well, they let you book HOLIDAYS there, right? :)
22:13	Bring your girlfriend and you and her can have a lobster dinner!
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