IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 9 February 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:51 | <gnunux> hi
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| 01:51 | <Lns> hi gnunux
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| 03:17 | <puckettc> I am using Ubuntu 9.04 and LTSP 5. I have 3 servers serving 75 clients all with local apps running fairly well. The largest of the servers has a fast RAID array serving the home drives to the other two but It also has a problem with Xorg consuming 90% + of CPU any ideas where I should look?
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| 03:19 | This server is an HP G6 ??? with 2 quad core processors and 12G of ram
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| 03:19 | Is anyone there?
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| 03:21 | <puckettc> I am using Ubuntu 9.04 and LTSP 5. I have 3 servers serving 75 clients all with local apps running fairly well. The largest of the servers has a fast RAID array serving the home drives to the other two but It also has a problem with Xorg consuming 90% + of CPU any ideas where I should look?
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| 03:26 | <alkisg> puckettc: just an idea - do you perhaps have both vino-server and italc installed?
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| 03:29 | <puckettc> I do have vino installed but don't even know what is is for. I do not have italc
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| 03:40 | <puckettc> Anyone have an idea of the best location to post my question?
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| 03:43 | <alkisg> This is a good location, it just isn't a good time :) Try again in about 6-10 hours...
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| 03:43 | bbl
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| 03:48 | <frederickjh> puckettc there is a problem with Xorg the X display manager I am running Karmic and I think that it affects 9.04. I have seen no good permanent solution.
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| 03:49 | <frederickjh> What I do is log out and back in on the server and normally this drops the CPU activity.
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| 03:53 | vino is the remote desktop server. If you do not access your machine this way (VNC) then you might want to uninstall it. I have heard for some this stops the CPU hogging.
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| 03:54 | <frederickjh> Do you have X running on the servers?
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| 03:58 | <puckettc> I do have x running. I sort of cheated as the desktop install was the easiest.
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| 03:58 | <frederickjh> Try logging out and back in to see if that lowers your CPU usage.
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| 03:59 | Normally it works the first time for me.
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| 03:59 | <puckettc> Also I suppose I should be running the server package but I jumped the gun a little with the project. This only occurs on one of the servers so I thought I would ask here.
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| 04:00 | <frederickjh> I have X running on my server but I am not serving as many clients as you.
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| 04:00 | <puckettc> I can ssh into the machine with no one logged on at the terminal and it still is 90 or so percent
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| 04:00 | <frederickjh> So X is not running?
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| 04:01 | What does top report when you run it in a terminal?
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| 04:01 | <puckettc> each of my servers handles about 25 clients. I have ssh tunnel disabled in the lts conf
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| 04:01 | <frederickjh> top will tell you you biggest CPU users.
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| 04:01 | Are you using encrypted traffic to the clients? (This is the default.)
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| 04:02 | <puckettc> no I have turned that off
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| 04:02 | <frederickjh> You can turn it off in the lts.conf.
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| 04:02 | I would first check what top says in a terminal and see what is using the cpu.
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| 04:03 | <puckettc> top has xorg between 50 and 90%
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| 04:04 | <frederickjh> Did you try login out and back in?
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| 04:04 | <puckettc> I'll see what I can find later. I have a class to teach thanks
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| 06:56 | <Briareos1> does one know how i can find which users VNC-session runs on which port?
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| 07:27 | <frederickjh> netstat will tell you what is using the network and ports
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| 07:33 | <Briareos1> frederickjh but netstat shows active connections only, right? i need to see (for example) that the open port 5904 hosts the desktop-session of mr. jones
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| 07:34 | <frederickjh> So Are you looking for open ports?
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| 07:34 | <Briareos1> i can "nmap HOST -p 5900-5999" to find which ports are open
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| 07:34 | and where sessions are to be found
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| 07:34 | but with nmap i cannot figure out WHO is to be found on that port
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| 07:35 | i'd need to know that mjones is located at 5903
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| 07:35 | <frederickjh> So, you are using VNC to monitor thin clients on a LTSP setup?
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| 07:35 | Which distro?
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| 07:37 | <frederickjh> Are you doing this from the server or remotely?
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| 07:40 | <frederickjh> Maybe the better question is how does the vnc server assign the ports.
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| 07:40 | Does it give them out in the order they are started?
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| 07:40 | Or can you set them static in a config file?
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| 07:41 | If you are using Ubuntu you can us the ITalc Master Interface to do monitor student easily.
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| 07:41 | us=use
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| 07:51 | <Briareos1> frederickjh ... it gives them out in order they are started it seems
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| 07:52 | i'd have to have another look at italc
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| 07:52 | <frederickjh> Are you using Ubuntu?
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| 07:52 | <Briareos1> but in 8.04 the supplied version is faulty
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| 07:52 | yes ubuntu
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| 07:52 | <frederickjh> Ok, I just upgraded to Karmic and ITalc work fine in Karmic.
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| 07:54 | I had other problems with Karmic. White noise on the speakers on sound server startup. Had to set switches to turn the mic volumes down to 0 in lts.conf
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| 08:01 | <alkisg> Briareos1: vnc (vino-server) by default always uses port 5900 and accepts only one user. What guide did you follow to allow multiple vnc connections?
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| 08:18 | <Briareos1> alkisg I personally didn't enable them - i guess my colleague did it somehow when he installed iTALC. could iTALC enable that?
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| 08:18 | <alkisg> Briareos1: are you talking about vnc connections, italc connections or X connections?
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| 08:19 | <Briareos1> frederickjh: did you, by chance, also notice that firefox was unusably slow?
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| 08:19 | <alkisg> Briareos1: I think your terminology might be wrong. Can you describe in more detail you do your users connect?
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| 08:19 | <Briareos1> alkisg i am talking about VNC - i guessed iTALC uses vnc connections ....
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| 08:19 | <alkisg> *how
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| 08:19 | Yes, iTalc uses encrypted vnc connections
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| 08:19 | <frederickjh> I we use Opera and the problem seems to be more related to java apps in the browser.
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| 08:20 | <alkisg> Briareos1: but that's for monitoring the users. It isn't to be used by the users themselves.
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| 08:20 | <Briareos1> users boot via bootp/tftp (?) and for remote administration i log on the the user's session via "krdc 192.168.1.11:59XX"
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| 08:21 | alkisg yes, i am not talking about the users themselves - just for the admins to mirror their desktops for support
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| 08:21 | <alkisg> Briareos1: italc has client autodetection
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| 08:21 | You don't need to discover the client addresses manually
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| 08:22 | <Briareos1> can i achieve that autodetection without iTALC?
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| 08:22 | <alkisg> Yes, but that's totally unrelated to vnc
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| 08:22 | <Briareos1> sometimes, when i started krdc directly from a user on the server i could see a list of sessions incl. usernames within krdc
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| 08:22 | but since some days that stopped working ....
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| 08:23 | <alkisg> You can't have both italc and vnc installed, they collide with each other (if you don't change the ports manually)
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| 08:23 | <Briareos1> so i guessed there must be some way to do a "discovery" just like krdc sometimes could ...
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| 08:23 | <alkisg> If you do that, you'll have high cpu usage, and frequent hangs...
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| 08:44 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 08:45 | <alkisg> s is Scottyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!one!!!!
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| 08:46 | <sbalneav> Notice to all:
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| 08:46 | I figured out how to remove the "only talk if registered" thing last night.
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| 08:47 | <sbalneav> so we're back to normal. Don't know why it didn't come off when they upgraded freenode.
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| 08:48 | <vbundi> finally, I can go about my diabolical plan involving not registering my name.
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| 09:02 | <paolino> hello, I just installed ltsp server, but I cannot login from client
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| 09:03 | it says incorrect password
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| 09:04 | I'm trying to login from console alt-f1, because I cannot read the alt-f7 graphics one
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| 09:08 | <frederickjh> paolino it will not let you login.
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| 09:08 | If you want to you can add a line to your lts.conf and use terminal 2
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| 09:09 | <paolino> it seems to ignore my changes to lts.conf
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| 09:09 | <frederickjh> Where in the one you are using located?
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| 09:09 | Are you using Ubuntu?
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| 09:09 | <paolino> yes
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| 09:11 | /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
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| 09:11 | <frederickjh> That is th correct one.
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| 09:11 | SCREEN_02=shell
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| 09:11 | SCREEN_07=ldm
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| 09:11 | Add that then reboot the client.
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| 09:12 | <paolino> I added X_MODE_0 = 1440x1050 in the default section, but still an unreadeable resolution
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| 09:12 | ok, I try that
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| 09:12 | <frederickjh> Then you will have a root shell on terminal 2 no need to log in.
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| 09:13 | <paolino> mh ctrl-alt-canc is showing a lot of squashfs errors
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| 09:15 | ok I have it
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| 09:22 | <paolino> X_MODE_0 = 1400x1050, is this line what I need to make ldm working ? Or I need to set the card driver also ?
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| 09:24 | <frederickjh> Not sure I have not configured x with lts.conf
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| 09:25 | <Briareos1> sorry, frederickjh & alkisg, that i didn't respond earlier. it's pretty stressy today. I'll read your notes in the evening - thanks.
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| 09:27 | <ogra> paolino, check ~/.xsession-errors
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| 09:28 | <ogra> paolino, if you get to the login manager all is fine with ltsp, the problem is the desktop or user management on the server
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| 09:28 | <paolino> ogra the login manager is not readable
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| 09:29 | <ogra> oh, i thought you said you get a "wrong passwd" message, sorry, wasnt following closely
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| 09:29 | <paolino> that was on console
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| 09:29 | <ogra> ah
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| 09:30 | yeah, thats desired :)
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| 09:30 | <paolino> now I have console
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| 09:30 | but ldm is flickering , so wrong resolution I guess
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| 09:31 | <ogra> XHOZRSYNZC and XVERTREFRESH with teh proper values for your monitor should help here
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| 09:32 | look in the docs :)
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| 09:32 | <alkisg> !lts.conf
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| 09:32 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "lts.conf" :: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
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| 09:32 | <alkisg> Seach for XRANDR_MODE_0, X_VERTREFRESH and X_HORZSYNC there.
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| 09:33 | <ogra> you shouldnt need XRANDR_MODE_0 though if the latter two are correctly set
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| 09:33 | unless i missed code changes :)
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| 09:33 | <paolino> I have ati 1400x1050 lcd
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| 09:34 | * Gadi reflects on ogra's new position as superbowl commentator | |
| 09:34 | <ogra> lol
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| 09:35 | <paolino> I've found some modeline parameters googling, can I get the X_VERTREFRESH and X_HORZSYNC, out of them ?
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| 09:35 | <ogra> your monitor handbook surely has them
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| 09:36 | and you should be able to find a pdf with google
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| 09:36 | <vbundi> Yesterday Gadi and I were able to get my terminals loading a lot faster by disabling ltspfsd, though my bootchart still doesn't look quite normal http://imagebin.org/84070
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| 09:37 | <ogra> vbundi, well, its readable now :)
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| 09:37 | <vbundi> 2 minute boot is acceptable to me, I'm just curious as to why mine looks so much different than the one you sent before
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| 09:37 | <ogra> but you clearly have a CPU issue
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| 09:38 | <vbundi> yeah I disabled the audio hardware and got rid of ltspfsd
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| 09:38 | <ogra> its maxed out all the time
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| 09:38 | <vbundi> yeah Gadi thought it might be that the cpu (Transmeta Crusoe) doesn't have much support in the newest kernel
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| 09:38 | <Gadi> well, the jury's still out on all this
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| 09:39 | <ogra> yeah, smells largely like a kernel issue
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| 09:39 | <Gadi> well, it could be a cross-coupled problem
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| 09:39 | in other words,
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| 09:39 | <vbundi> so the reason my bootchart looks weird is mostly because it just takes longer to do everything?
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| 09:40 | <ogra> look at the top graph
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| 09:40 | the one showing your CPU at work
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| 09:40 | <Gadi> perhaps there are so many udev calls in rapid succession that the ltspfs_entry code cannot handle them all
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| 09:40 | <vbundi> yea I can see it's pretty maxed most of the time
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| 09:40 | <Gadi> and since they run as separate threads, maybe they step over each other
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| 09:40 | <ogra> vbundi, http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/osiris-lucid-20100202-6.png see my laptop compared to that
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| 09:41 | <Gadi> I wonder if we should lock the /var/cache/ltsp_config file that we write to in ltsp_config
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| 09:41 | <ogra> its actually doing stuff while the CPU is maxed out, while yours seems to idle in maxed out CPU states
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| 09:41 | <Gadi> ogra: you prolly have a hyperthreaded CPU
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| 09:41 | <ogra> indeed
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| 09:41 | <vbundi> it's definitely dual core
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| 09:42 | <Gadi> I dont think the transmeta is
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| 09:42 | <ogra> no, it isnt
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| 09:42 | <vbundi> yea transmeta is old
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| 09:42 | <ogra> and i'd like to know the L2 cache
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| 09:42 | <vbundi> 1meg I believe
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| 09:42 | <Gadi> so, out the CPU, you max out the CPU
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| 09:42 | :)
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| 09:43 | <ogra> well, i dont max out a single core non HT CPU ... at least not to a point where you have 2min boots
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| 09:43 | <Gadi> I think we have to be careful now that we call ltsp_config from ltspfs_entry
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| 09:43 | <ogra> i wonder if we see the same issue as with the SIS CPU in the e1000
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| 09:43 | which seemed to be a kernel prob as well and was never solved
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| 09:44 | <Gadi> I think we will see the same issue with all single threaded CPUs
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| 09:44 | <Ahmuck> i'd like to boot from an ltsp server and then "clone" the local hard drive to a folder on the server. possible?
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| 09:45 | <Gadi> which is excellent, because it is resolvable without resorting to differnt packages
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| 09:45 | Ahmuck: write a screen script
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| 09:45 | or drop to a shell and do it by hand
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| 09:46 | <Ahmuck> a screen script?
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| 09:46 | <Gadi> screen scripts are what gets run at the end of boot
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| 09:46 | examples are ldm, rdesktop, shell
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| 09:46 | <Ahmuck> i can drop to a shell and do it by hand. i suppose it's just a matter of mounting the local drive to the server?
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| 09:46 | ah, ok
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| 09:46 | <Gadi> all in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/screen.d/
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| 09:46 | do you want a copy of the files or an image of the drive?
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| 09:48 | <Ahmuck> well, it's a superintdent's laptop. I need to make a backup of the drive in the event repair fails. so a copy of the files and/or an image
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| 09:50 | <Gadi> for files, install rsync in the chroot, boot to a shell, mount the hard drive to say /mnt/sda1 and rsync -avz /mnt/sda1/ user@server:/path/to/folder/
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| 09:50 | for an image, you can use dd
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| 09:51 | something like: dd if=/dev/sda1|ssh user@server dd of=/path/to/imagefile.img
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| 10:03 | <vbundi> ogra: I've got a terminal with an SiS cpu here
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| 10:03 | <ogra> and ? how many minutes ? :)
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| 10:03 | <vbundi> ogra: it's also got multiple instances of udevd spawned
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| 10:03 | one sec.. scpd the tgz to my other system
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| 10:03 | <ogra> we had them down to two ... from five in gutsy
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| 10:05 | <vbundi> 4:50
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| 10:05 | it's a 200mhz cpu though I think...
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| 10:05 | 128MB ram
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| 10:05 | <ogra> yeah, the same thing i use as router now
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| 10:06 | sad it went back to 4:30
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| 10:06 | it was the reason why i switched ubuntu to nbd
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| 10:06 | because that shoved off 3min from the boot
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| 10:06 | <vbundi> ah
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| 10:06 | <ogra> and sped up other boots as well :)
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| 10:07 | <vbundi> yea this is one of those little silver/black terminals that can screw into the VESA mount on a monitor
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| 10:07 | <ogra> right
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| 10:07 | makes an waesome router if you attach a USB NIC
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| 10:08 | <vbundi> oh yea that'd be kinda cool
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| 10:09 | I was going to try and use one for ipcop a while back, for some reason I couldn't get it to work with using usb drive storage
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| 10:09 | probably would be better to use CF on this little box
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| 10:11 | <ogra> i have a CF in it
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| 10:11 | was hard to get though ... they got expnesive nowadays
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| 10:12 | <vbundi> yeah it's cool to do it, but not really practical unless you have stuff layin around
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| 10:13 | <XuzhouJijm> Anyway to get a client to be allowed to administer the server. Servers in a different room. I'm lazy.
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| 10:16 | <Ahmuck> ping
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| 10:29 | <vbundi> I managed to get this SIS 128MB terminal booted but the display is quite slow and choppy (screen_02 = rdesktop)
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| 10:30 | these terminals did work pretty well before... are they just too slow now for the new kernel?
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| 10:31 | <ogra> define "before" :)
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| 10:31 | <vbundi> ltsp4.. lol
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| 10:31 | <ogra> the slowness showed up around 2.6.20 or so ...
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| 10:31 | ltsp4 is left with .18
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| 10:32 | <vbundi> THIS particular ltsp4 setup is 2.4.xx
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| 10:32 | <ogra> well, thats ancient anyway :)
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| 10:33 | <vbundi> yeah well performance is a lot better as far as screen refreshing etc... the main reason I want to upgrade is due to hardware support
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| 10:33 | this version won't even work with half the USB mice out there...
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| 10:35 | so I guess here's my question: if I don't care about sound, and localdev, or local apps, just want to run rdesktop for these guys so they can use their accounting software, am I better off using LTSP4 or an old version of LTSP5
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| 10:35 | ^ also, I doubt they want to shell out for new hardware
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| 10:35 | so we'll be runnign these Transmeta terminals
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| 10:36 | <alkisg> 128 ram is enough, so I guess that's just a driver performance check...
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| 10:37 | <ogra> vbundi, ltsp4 doesnt have security support, no fixes are applied and no development is going on in it at all ... beyond that you would probably be better off with it
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| 10:37 | <ogra> but its largely a dead project now
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| 10:38 | <vbundi> alksig: most of them are 256MB+ it's just that the Transmeta processors don't seem to be efficient in working with the newer kernel
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| 10:38 | <alkisg> How do you measure efficiency?
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| 10:39 | Do you have LDM_DIRECTX=true? is xv enabled? is the driver ok? is your network ok?
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| 10:39 | <vbundi> performace vs expected performance
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| 10:39 | network is good
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| 10:39 | <vbundi> LDM_DIRECTX is not set
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| 10:40 | <alkisg> Did ltsp4 use encryption? I don't think so... so you shouldn't be comparing it with ltsp5 with ldm_directx=false (=the default), because that uses encryption
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| 10:40 | <vbundi> most of these terminals use Radeon chipsets, is there a module to set for them that might increase screen performance?
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| 10:40 | <alkisg> Ssh encryption for video quickly kills your CPU.
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| 10:41 | (and lowers performance)
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| 10:42 | <vbundi> alkisg: yeah I understand there are a lot of great things about LTSP5, but if my hardware can't support them, then I have an issue... I will try disabling x over ssh
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| 10:43 | <alkisg> For low spec hardware, disabling encryption will get you a really big performance boost.
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| 10:43 | (at the cost of security)
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| 10:43 | [Default]
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| 10:44 | LDM_DIRECTX=true
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| 10:44 | <vbundi> trying it now
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| 10:44 | <alkisg> that in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf or whereever else you have it
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| 10:52 | <vbundi> "LDM_DIRECTX = true" does not seem to affect performance for me
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| 10:52 | <johnny> try without the spaces..
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| 10:52 | i also go simple with the Y .. but that shouldn't matter :)
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| 10:52 | and yes.. make sure it is under [default]
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| 10:53 | <vbundi> so LDM_DIRECTX=Y
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| 10:54 | <johnny> LDM_DIRECTX=true should be fine too tho
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| 10:54 | i had probablys with spaces at various times myself..
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| 10:54 | <alkisg> Yup, the problem is in the spaces
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| 10:54 | <johnny> alkisg, what causes the space problem to happen?
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| 10:54 | <alkisg> grammar?
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| 10:54 | * alkisg hasn't looked at this.. | |
| 10:55 | <johnny> gadi keeps telling me there is no problem with spaces
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| 10:55 | but i'm pretty sure i've seen ti..
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| 10:55 | <alkisg> Ah. I don't know, I just heard it here
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| 10:55 | <vbundi> that's kinda weird... I've got spaces in my other lines and they work
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| 10:55 | that's kinda weird... I've got spaces in my other lines and they work
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| 10:55 | oops uparrow + enter meant for terminal
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| 10:56 | <alkisg> vbundi: distro/version?
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| 10:56 | <vbundi> running LTSP? ubuntu 9.10
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| 10:56 | x64
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| 10:57 | <alkisg> !learn localxterm as while sitting on a thin client, open a gnome terminal. In that, run: ltsp-localapps xterm. An xterm will open. That xterm runs locally, so any commands you enter there are executed directly on the client.
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| 10:57 | <ltspbot> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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| 10:57 | <alkisg> vbundi: in a localxterm run: getltscfg -a
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| 10:57 | !localxterm
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| 10:57 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "localxterm" :: while sitting on a thin client, open a gnome terminal. In that, run: ltsp-localapps xterm. An xterm will open. That xterm runs locally, so any commands you enter there are executed directly on the client.
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| 11:11 | <vbundi> alkisg: hmm my ldm screen seems to be broken
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| 11:11 | <alkisg> How so?
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| 11:11 | <vbundi> won't let me type in it or anything
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| 11:11 | <alkisg> try: sudo ltsp-update-kernels, and reboot the client
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| 11:11 | <vbundi> I haven't tried gnome since I recreated this chroot,
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| 11:11 | k
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| 11:14 | <grantk> does anyone know if printer declaration has changed since ltsp4.2 for clients?
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| 11:14 | I took a look at the lts.conf man and it does not look like it has.
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| 11:14 | alexqwesa has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:14 | <ogra> !docs
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| 11:14 | <ltspbot> ogra: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 11:15 | <ogra> grantk, ^^^
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| 11:28 | <Briareos1> re
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| 11:29 | cliebow has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:29 | <Briareos1> frederickjh: did you also try firefox 3.5 or 3.6 to see if they work okay within ltsp?
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| 11:29 | <cliebow> a
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| 11:29 | <frederickjh> Can't say for sure, but maybe I could test later.
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| 11:30 | * frederickjh goes to eat | |
| 11:31 | <Briareos1> frederickjh 3.0.x is unusable, but i was hoping that 3.5 - which was advertised as less resource-intensive - would work
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| 11:31 | Lns has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:32 | <_UsUrPeR_> hey all. I am trying to allow users a passwordless login for multiple login names on a single ltsp server. Has anybody attempted this?
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| 11:33 | <alkisg> Briareos1: firefox works fine for me. Is your setup OK?
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| 11:33 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: if you set a different LDM_USERNAME and LDM_PASSWORD for each host, it should work fine...
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| 11:34 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: was not looking to bypass LDM, I just want to allow users to login without a password (i.e. click their name and go)
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| 11:35 | <alkisg> Urm, first of all, ldm doesn't offer a users list, does it? :D
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| 11:36 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: on the server it does....
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| 11:36 | not the clients though.
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| 11:36 | <alkisg> That's gdm on the server
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| 11:36 | Not ldm
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| 11:36 | <_UsUrPeR_> ahh
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| 11:37 | <_UsUrPeR_> onoz
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| 11:37 | <alkisg> It shouldn't be too difficult to provide a users list, but someone would have to code it... :)
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| 11:38 | <johnny> well.. it'd be nice if we could reuse gdm :(
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| 11:38 | or reuse code from gdm...
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| 11:39 | <alkisg> Or let the whole login screen run on the server :)
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| 11:39 | (== gdm itself)
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| 11:40 | <johnny> alkisg, hmm.. that would be neat.. would still need to plug certain things
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| 11:40 | guess if we had that dbus mapping from client to server it might work..
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| 11:40 | <alkisg> Yeah, we'd need some pam* modules/hooks etc
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| 11:41 | <johnny> and a way to handle the ltspfs mounts
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| 11:41 | <alkisg> It'd be even better if those modules were a normal package, one you could install to any pc and make it an ltsp client
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| 11:45 | <Briareos1> alkisg: about ffox - how many users are using firefox concurrently?
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| 11:45 | <alkisg> 12
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| 11:50 | <cliebow> brb
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| 11:51 | <pippo1> hi , how I decide which applications are run locally when I enable LOCAL_APPS ?
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| 11:52 | alexqwesa has quit IRC | |
| 11:53 | <pippo1> found: LOCAL_APPS_WHITELIST
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| 11:53 | <alkisg> pippo1: by default, anything that has a .desktop file, runs locally
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| 11:54 | <Gadi> alkisg: only if you make LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True
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| 11:54 | <alkisg> If for some reason you want to install an application to the chroot but *not* have it run locally, *then* you use the LOCAL_APPS_WHITELIST
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| 11:54 | <Briareos1> huh? does that mean by default pretty much of the performance relies on the client?
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| 11:54 | <alkisg> Ooops, and what Gadi said :)
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| 11:54 | <Gadi> pippo1: LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True overrides menu entries to launch locally
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| 11:54 | pippo1: LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS=<list> overrides only those in the list
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| 11:55 | <pippo1> alkisg: what is a .desktop ?
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| 11:55 | <alkisg> ls /usr/share/applications
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| 11:55 | <Gadi> pippo1: LOCAL_APPS_WHITELIST=<list> only allows certain commands to run locally
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| 11:55 | <alkisg> The menu files are .desktop files
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| 11:58 | <pippo1> ok that dirs contains almost any appication
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| 11:58 | <grantk> other than the lts.conf for enabling printing to a terminal with ltsp 5 on ubuntu is there anything else to do. I checked the LTSPManual.pdf and my declarations in my lts.conf are correct, did not change from 4.2 actually. I looked at the ubuntu community documentation page and did not find anything there. One thing I know for sure is that I can not telnet to the clients that I have defined a printer for.
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| 11:58 | <alkisg> Argh... nbd doesn't work for me with vbox clients in Lucid :(
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| 11:59 | <grantk> http://pastie.org/816678
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| 11:59 | <pippo1> Gadi: that means if I set LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True thy are all run locally ?
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| 12:00 | <dro> alkisg: I think when I had issues with vbox in the past, I used nat for the nic and then nbd worked
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| 12:00 | <grantk> alksig: do you have to use a boot image for those vbox clients or are you able to get them to pxe boot?
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| 12:00 | <Gadi> pippo1: anything in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/applications
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| 12:00 | grantk: remove the inline comments next to the MAC addys
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| 12:00 | <alkisg> dro: hmmm thanks I'll give that a try :)
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| 12:00 | <grantk> gadi: ok
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| 12:01 | <alkisg> I'll also try to start nbd as a daemon, not from inetd...
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| 12:01 | <dro> alkisg: i'm actually building a 9.10 ltsp server now in vbox
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| 12:01 | <grantk> ahh
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| 12:01 | <dro> alkisg: when it's done i'll play around and see what the trick was if nat wasn't it
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| 12:02 | <grantk> I have my new servers running on xenserver with nbd swap
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| 12:02 | <pippo1> Gadi ok, I want to run only mplayer.desktop. LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS= mplayer.desktop ?
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| 12:03 | <Gadi> pippo1: do you have mplayer installed in the chroot?
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| 12:03 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: I'm attempting to use LDM_USERNAME = "testuser1" and LDM_PASSWORD = "test"... doesn't seem to be working properly.
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| 12:03 | do I have the nomenclature proper?
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| 12:03 | <alkisg> You also need LDM_AUTOLOGIN=true
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| 12:03 | <_UsUrPeR_> ahh~~~
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| 12:03 | <pippo1> Gadi, I suppos not
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| 12:04 | <Gadi> pippo1: step 1: chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install mplayer
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| 12:04 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: do I need that under [DEFAULT] or [<MAC ADDRESS>]?
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| 12:04 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: or LDM_GUESTLOGIN=true if you want to get a guest button for those credentials
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| 12:04 | <Gadi> pippo1: step 2: sudo ltsp-update-image
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| 12:04 | pippo1: step 3: set LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True
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| 12:04 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: the LDM_AUTOLOGIN can go under [Default], the others under the mac addres
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| 12:05 | <Gadi> pippo1: step 4: (optional) if all you want to run locally is mplayer, regardless of what other apps you installed in the chroot, you can limit it with LOCAL_APPS_MENU_LIST="mplayer"
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| 12:05 | (the names you use in the list are the names of the .desktop files (without the .desktop extension)
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| 12:06 | <alkisg> stgraber: would nbd-proxy have problems with vbox?
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| 12:06 | * pippo1 cut and paste instructions :) | |
| 12:06 | <_UsUrPeR_> is there anything I can do with lts.conf to auto start firefox on user login?
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| 12:07 | <alkisg> To autostart programs, you can just put them in /etc/xdg/autostart...
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| 12:07 | <_UsUrPeR_> hmm k
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| 12:08 | <alkisg> stgraber: is there any switch/kernel parameter that I can use to try without nbd-proxy?
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| 12:10 | <stgraber> alkisg: easiest is to patch the initrd manually, edit /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/ltsp_nbd, comment the nbd-proxy line and update the nbd-client call to use the server IP address and not localhost
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| 12:10 | <alkisg> stgraber: thanks!
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| 12:10 | <grantk> Gadi: No luck with those inline comments removed, I still get rejected when I try netstat or telnet to those clients.
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| 12:10 | <Gadi> grantk: you do telnet <ip> 9100
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| 12:10 | <grantk> yep, and nc <ip> 9100
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| 12:11 | <Gadi> note: *not* <ip>:9100
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| 12:11 | <grantk> telnet 192.168.1.1 9100
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| 12:11 | Trying 192.168.1.1...
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| 12:11 | telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
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| 12:11 | <Gadi> what distro?
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| 12:11 | <grantk> ubuntu 9.04
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| 12:13 | <Gadi> grantk: firewall?
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| 12:13 | <alkisg> stgraber: btw, for some strange reason, update-initramfs -u *executes* the scripts! E.g. " /tmp/mkinitramfs_Ygsd8R/scripts/nfs-bottom/ltsp: 5: cannot open /proc/sys/kernel/hostname: No such file"
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| 12:13 | <grantk> no
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| 12:14 | <Gadi> grantk: drop to a shell and make sure jetpipe is running
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| 12:14 | <stgraber> alkisg: is that with my PPA ?
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| 12:15 | alkisg: and do you have /proc mounted in the chroot ?
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| 12:15 | <alkisg> stgraber: with your ppa packages copied in my ppa, yes...
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| 12:15 | stgraber: no
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| 12:15 | Erm sorry, I guess on this chroot I didn't use your ppa: ltsp-client 5.1.99-0ubuntu1
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| 12:16 | * alkisg looks again.. | |
| 12:16 | <grantk> gadi: no jetpipe
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| 12:16 | looks like there is no package so I will try and find the source
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| 12:16 | <Gadi> should be in /usr/bin/ or /usr/sbin
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| 12:16 | it is our own script
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| 12:16 | one sec
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| 12:17 | <stgraber> alkisg: I fixed that issue upstream a few days ago so it's probably not in Lucid
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| 12:17 | <alkisg> stgraber: just checked with another chroot with your ppa in it, it's OK. Thanks!
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| 12:18 | <stgraber> np
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| 12:18 | <Gadi> grantk: can you run: jetpipe /dev/lp0 9100
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| 12:19 | <alkisg> stgraber: yeah, nbd-proxy has problems with my vbox. Removing it made my vbox work fine.
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| 12:19 | <Gadi> at the shell?
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| 12:19 | <grantk> nope, I just searched for jetpipe and I am not locating it, checked /usr/bin and /usr/sbin
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| 12:19 | <Gadi> in the chroot?
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| 12:19 | <grantk> looks like it did not get installed
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| 12:19 | yes
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| 12:19 | <Gadi> it isnt a separate package
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| 12:19 | <grantk> hm strange
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| 12:20 | <Gadi> can you update the chroot?
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| 12:20 | ltsp-client should pull it in
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| 12:20 | and make sure it also pulls in python-serial
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| 12:20 | <grantk> just an aptitude update?
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| 12:20 | in chroot
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| 12:20 | <vbundi> alkisg: hey earlier you wanted some output of getltscfg -a, here it is: http://pastebin.org/89005
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| 12:21 | <Gadi> apt-get update; apt-get upgrade
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| 12:21 | <grantk> 0 updated there
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| 12:21 | <alkisg> vbundi: ldm_directx should be in effect - you don't see any major perfomance boost with that?
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| 12:22 | <grantk> there is no python-serial either
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| 12:23 | <Gadi> and no /usr/sbin/jetpipe?
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| 12:23 | <grantk> no
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| 12:23 | I was able to install python-serial
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| 12:24 | <Gadi> well, update the image and see where you stand
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| 12:24 | <grantk> oik
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| 12:24 | ok
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| 12:24 | <pippo1> Gadi, it seems ok, mplayer runs locally , but cannot open files
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| 12:24 | <Gadi> pippo1: local apps will see the user's home directory
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| 12:24 | <vbundi> alkisg: not particularly, I'm wondering though if the proper module is being loaded for the display, I had a problem like that in LTSP4 where I had to specify the module or else scrolling was very choppy
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| 12:25 | <Gadi> pippo1: but the rest of the system is the chroot
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| 12:25 | <vbundi> alkisg: these are radeon chipsets for video
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| 12:25 | <alkisg> vbundi: you should even have a faster boot process...
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| 12:25 | <Gadi> pippo1: so, it should see files in the homedir
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| 12:25 | <alkisg> vbundi: sorry, I've no idea about radeon video modules
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| 12:27 | <vbundi> is there a way to ask the xserver which module it's using?
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| 12:27 | <pippo1> Gadi: can I symlink another from home to access it ?
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| 12:28 | <Gadi> pippo1: local apps see home through sshfs
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| 12:28 | by default, sshfs (like ssh) will follow symlinks
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| 12:28 | so, if you symlink /home/user/tmp -> /tmp
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| 12:28 | <alkisg> vbundi: I think `lspci -vv -nn` in the localxterm can tell you that
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| 12:28 | <alincoln> vbundi: search /var/log/Xlog.7.log for 'LoadModule'
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| 12:28 | <Gadi> you will see the server's /tmp
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| 12:28 | <alincoln> or maybe that.
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| 12:28 | <vbundi> ok
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| 12:30 | <Gadi> pippo1: at one point someone wrote some additional code to mount more than just the homedir for the client to see, but I am not sure if that made it upstream
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| 12:30 | <alincoln> Gadi: it is upstream, and i'm playing with it now
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| 12:30 | not working for me yet
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| 12:31 | pippo1: ^^ it's LOCAL_APPS_EXTRAMOUNTS
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| 12:31 | <stgraber> alkisg: weird ...
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| 12:31 | <alkisg> stgraber: I tried with the other chroot kernels, with your ppa in my sources, the same problem...
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| 12:31 | When I remove nbd-proxy, it works fine
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| 12:31 | * alkisg tries with a 32bit client now... | |
| 12:31 | <stgraber> alkisg: do you see it connecting to the server ?
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| 12:32 | * stgraber admits he never tested 64bit with LTSP | |
| 12:32 | <vbundi> what's the motivation behind running a 64-bit client?
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| 12:32 | 4GB ram for local apps? ;)
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| 12:33 | pippo1 has left #ltsp | |
| 12:33 | <vbundi> err 4+
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| 12:33 | * alkisg used 64bit virtual clients because he had an amd64 server, and for some reason 32bit virtual clients didn't boot! :) | |
| 12:33 | <alkisg> But now I'm with i386 on the server again...
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| 12:34 | stgraber: give me 15 minutes to do something else that I have to do, then test properly, and report back.
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| 12:42 | <frederickjh> Briareos1: I just tried firefox 3.5 vs Opera 10.10 to see if they work okay within ltsp.
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| 12:42 | <Briareos1> yes?
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| 12:42 | <frederickjh> I have a P4 server and only one client was running.
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| 12:42 | Plus a gui and stuff on the server.
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| 12:43 | Firefox bounced around more from the up 30
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| 12:43 | 30% to low 90%
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| 12:43 | While Opera was more steady between 40% and 60%.
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| 12:43 | This was while viewing the same webpages.
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| 12:44 | Intel P4 3.2GHz
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| 12:44 | I hope that helps!
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| 12:45 | <Briareos1> what are the percentages? cpu usage? mem?
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| 12:45 | <frederickjh> I have been using Opera for years now and find it much lighter.
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| 12:45 | I used the GUI system monitor and that was the CPU usage.
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| 12:47 | <frederickjh> With the client down and just what was running before I am running at 40 some % right now.
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| 12:47 | <Briareos1> hmm. our ltsp is on a 2 x quad core ibm machine with 8 GB ram ... but still with about 10 users logged on, firefox hangs the whole users' session at times !
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| 12:47 | <grantk> Gadi and Ogra: Thank you.
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| 12:47 | <Gadi> grantk: it works?
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| 12:47 | <alkisg> stgraber: I tried with an i386 virtual client, the same problem: I do get a connection, but then it hangs. Last messages: 'Hangup \n Negotiation: ..size = 2085456KB \n bs=1024, sz=2085456 \n [ 3.5678237] nbd0: unknown partition table \n [ 3.600873 ] aufs test_add:243:exe[226]: uid/gid/perm /rofs 0/0/0755 , 0/0/01777"
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| 12:47 | <grantk> probably if I did not forget to chmod jetpipe
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| 12:47 | <frederickjh> I would try to get the users to try Opera. It is much lighter and faster that Firefox.
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| 12:48 | <grantk> I found this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/224259
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| 12:48 | it has a copy of jetpipe ogra posted back in 2008
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| 12:48 | <frederickjh> Briareos1: have you considered ltsp-cluster? It is out now for Ubuntu.
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| 12:48 | <grantk> I put it in /usr/sbin and /usr/bin and then rebuilt the image and now I can telnet to those hosts.
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| 12:48 | sorry clients
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| 12:49 | <dro> alkisg: still having nbd issues?
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| 12:49 | etyack has left #ltsp | |
| 12:49 | <alkisg> dro: yeah, vbox doesn't cooperate with a new nbd-proxy thing
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| 12:49 | <grantk> so I need to change permissions on it and will hopefully be in business
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| 12:49 | <Briareos1> frederickjh: you mean more than one server for 10 clients?
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| 12:49 | <dro> alkisg: my client is almost done building, i'll tinker with it after that
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| 12:50 | alkisg: which version of lucid did you download, the daily build?
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| 12:50 | <alkisg> dro: Karmic? That new nbd-proxy thing is Lucid - specific, so we won't be having the same problem...
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| 12:50 | <Briareos1> could that, at least also be used as a backup in case one server goes down, frederickjh? in that case i'd consider it ...
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| 12:51 | <frederickjh> Yes, however if what they are mostly doing is browsing the web then maybe changing browser is a better idea.
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| 12:51 | <alkisg> dro: I have stgraber's ppa in my sources - they're not in lucid yet...
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| 12:51 | <dro> alkisg: i know but i know there were nbd issues with karmic on vbox too, and i found a way to fix it without having to use nfs
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| 12:51 | <frederickjh> Have you turned of encryption of traffic between the server and clients in the lts.conf?
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| 12:51 | <alkisg> dro: I didn't have any nbd problems with vbox and karmic...
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| 12:51 | <frederickjh> Than will save some CPU cycles.
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| 12:51 | <dro> alkisg: maybe i just had bad luck lol
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| 12:51 | <alkisg> :)
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| 12:52 | <dro> alkisg: of course i've slept a few times since then maybe it was intrepid
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| 12:53 | puck1 has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:53 | <frederickjh> LDM_DIRECTX=True in lts.conf will turn encryption off Briareos1
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| 12:55 | <Briareos1> frederickjh ok i'll try that too. the firefox-problem could just as likely be bandwidth-related - don't you think?
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| 12:56 | <frederickjh> For more info on ltsp-cluster see their new site https://www.ltsp-cluster.org/home
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| 12:56 | Not really. I was surfing the same sites.
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| 12:58 | <puck1> I need help with a fairly complex LTSP setup. I have 3 servers with about 75 clients. I have one main server that has the home drive for all users. This is shared via NFS between the servers on a server only network segment. The clients are slow in responding when most are running but I can't tell if the problem is a lack of processor power or write /read time to the home drive. The main server has 2 quad core 2.2Gh processors and 12Gig of memory. The othe
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| 12:58 | <frederickjh> Try an experiment ask your user to all use Opera for 10 minutes and see what happens to the load compared to firefox.
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| 12:59 | <puck1> All of the servers are connected via Gig ethernet to decent 3com switches
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| 13:00 | <vbundi> be back in an hour
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| 13:00 | <sbalneav> puck1: Thing to check would be most processes, when they're slow, if their status is "D" in ps
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| 13:00 | is so, then they're blocked on io
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| 13:01 | mikkel has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:01 | <puck1> What is the D status in the process list
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| 13:01 | <sbalneav> If you've got home + NFS on a server that's ALSO serving clients, you have a potential for a real problem
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| 13:01 | Process status
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| 13:01 | <puck1> should I move the home to a fast box by itself
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| 13:02 | <sbalneav> I'd say that'd be at least a start.
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| 13:02 | As well, running X and NFS over the same ethernet segment may cause you problems.
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| 13:02 | <puck1> Is this a viable plan to server 100 or so clients. Ubuntu + LTSP
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| 13:02 | <sbalneav> X is chatty, and sends lots of small packets
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| 13:02 | NFS wants big, chunky packets.
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| 13:03 | <puck1> I am not running anything except NFS over the backend
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| 13:03 | <sbalneav> puck1: I've got about 100 thin clients here at my location.
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| 13:03 | exactly the setup you describe
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| 13:03 | with 3 LTSP servers
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| 13:03 | <puck1> sbalneav: How many servers?
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| 13:03 | <sbalneav> 1 NFS server
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| 13:04 | Each LTSP server's a quad xeon, 8 gigs ram
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| 13:04 | NFS server's a quad with 4 gigs
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| 13:04 | all servers are networked together with a backbone segment, over which just NFS and internet access goes.
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| 13:04 | <puck1> Does your home box do anything else?
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| 13:04 | <sbalneav> Nope
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| 13:04 | just NFS
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| 13:05 | 6 disks
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| 13:05 | raid 10
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| 13:05 | it's running flat out.
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| 13:05 | <puck1> How are the ltsp servers connected?
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| 13:05 | <sbalneav> Gig backbone
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| 13:06 | all terminals hang off their own interface to each server
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| 13:06 | 1 sever has 40
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| 13:06 | 2 servers have 30
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| 13:06 | <puck1> How many connections do you have to the NAS and backbone?
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| 13:06 | <sbalneav> Don't have a nas
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| 13:06 | NFS server has it's own built in disks
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| 13:06 | <puck1> Sorry wrong terminology
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| 13:06 | <sbalneav> each ltsp server has 2 network interfaces
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| 13:06 | <puck1> Same here
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| 13:06 | <sbalneav> 1 for backbone (nfs, internet)
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| 13:07 | 1 for terminals
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| 13:07 | <puck1> one for home one for everything else
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| 13:07 | I have all terminals in the building on the same switched network so I can flip them between servers as needed.
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| 13:08 | <sbalneav> I'd segment them
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| 13:09 | <puck1> Do you use any local apps?
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| 13:09 | <sbalneav> None
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| 13:09 | All off the server.
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| 13:09 | <puck1> which flavor of linux
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| 13:09 | <sbalneav> Firefox, Openoffice, Thunderbird for mail
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| 13:09 | couple of wine apps
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| 13:09 | Ubuntu Hardy, ATM
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| 13:10 | <Briareos1> frederickjh: i mean bandwidth thinclient-to-ltspserver
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| 13:10 | <puck1> Ubuntu 9.04 with LTSP are you using the server build
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| 13:11 | pippo1 has quit IRC | |
| 13:11 | <puck1> Do you have any problems with speed while running large apps like GIMP?
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| 13:11 | <frederickjh> Not sure I had one client running on a 10Mpbs connection. But maybe you are referring to your setup.
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| 13:12 | What do you have 1 Gbps to the switch and the 100Mbps to the clients Briareos1?
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| 13:12 | <sbalneav> puck1: We don't run a lot of the gimp, but when I fire it up, I don't notice anything really bad
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| 13:13 | Panning around in a large image is obviously going to be a bit slower on a thin client than a full workstation.
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| 13:13 | <Briareos1> frederickjh: ltspserver - gigabitswitch - thinclients (every client on it's own jack directly on the gbitswitch)
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| 13:13 | <sbalneav> Thin clients are not meant to be comlete substitutes for full fledged workstations.
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| 13:13 | <puck1> OK I will try to move the NFS to a server by itself
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| 13:13 | <frederickjh> So from the switch to the clients you have giabit ethernet?
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| 13:14 | <puck1> I am just having problems saving files not viewing them so I think the NFS problem is where to start
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| 13:15 | <frederickjh> Briareos1 have you tried monitoring the network connection to the switch to see if it is getting/staying full?
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| 13:15 | <puck1> We do a lot of GIMP and other editing tools here in our school so I have to do something to fix this
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| 13:15 | <sbalneav> yeah, if it's file access, your NFS server's prolly saturated
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| 13:15 | <Briareos1> frederickjh: hmm i wouldn't really know how to monitor that ... (?)
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| 13:15 | <sbalneav> make sure to run more NFSd's than the default (8)
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| 13:15 | I run 64 of them
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| 13:15 | <puck1> Any sugestions on how to ser one up well
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| 13:16 | <sbalneav> There's some sysctl stuff you can do to tweak, if you need to.
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| 13:16 | hold on...
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| 13:17 | <frederickjh> Briareos1 try iptraf and general interface satistics.
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| 13:17 | It is a great tool for network monitoring.
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| 13:17 | <sbalneav> puck1: Add RPCNFSDCOUNT=48
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| 13:18 | <puck1> My two additional servers connect to the NFS box by direct crossover cables gig ethernet to gig ethernet
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| 13:18 | Does this sound like a problem?
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| 13:18 | <frederickjh> If it is full maybe you should consider adding another gibabit interface from the server to the switch and bonding them together. This would double your capacity for each client.
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| 13:18 | <sbalneav> to your /etc/default/nfs-kernel-server
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| 13:19 | puck1: should be fine
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| 13:19 | <puck1> sbalneav: then just restart NFS??
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| 13:20 | <sbalneav> Don't do it on the one you've got now
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| 13:20 | do that for when you set up the new server.
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| 13:20 | <puck1> what would happen if I tried on this?
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| 13:20 | jammcq has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:20 | <jammcq> hey friends
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| 13:21 | <sbalneav> !j
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| 13:21 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: "j" :: jammcq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 13:21 | <jammcq> Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 13:21 | so we're getting a little bit of snow around here. there's probably 1/2 inch so far, with about 2" total for today and another 5" over night.
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| 13:21 | people are just freaking out
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| 13:22 | several suggestions to cancel the user group meeting tonight because of it
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| 13:22 | i'm thinking.... people... get a grip
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| 13:22 | <alincoln> jammcq: hah, you like the remote meeting suggestion on the mailing list?
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| 13:23 | <jammcq> I think there's some value to showing up face-to-face
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| 13:23 | <alincoln> you bet.
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| 13:23 | <puck1> sbalneav: I bought a big HP server to try to do both for about 20 users and it works OK but when serving the additional servers it is just not working. Thanks for your help
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| 13:23 | <jammcq> a remote meeting will almost completely eliminate audience participation
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| 13:23 | <alincoln> i thought it was funny how the snow spawned this sudden interest in remote meetings.
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| 13:24 | <sbalneav> puck1: NP
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| 13:25 | <Briareos1> frederickjh: great hint! i just installed it and have it running right now
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| 13:25 | <puck1> 3
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| 13:25 | .
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| 13:25 | <Briareos1> frederickjh: though there are no users at that time of day :)
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| 13:25 | <frederickjh> Briareos1 iptraf or the gigabit interface?
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| 13:26 | <Briareos1> frederickjh: iptraf
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| 13:26 | <Gadi> alkisg: ping
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| 13:26 | <alkisg> Hey Gadi
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| 13:26 | <frederickjh> So you have no user now?
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| 13:26 | <Briareos1> frederickjh: no
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| 13:26 | <Gadi> hey - are you aware of any kernel command args to set mtu in the initramfs?
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| 13:26 | <frederickjh> Are you in europe?
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| 13:26 | <Briareos1> frederickjh: yes :)
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| 13:26 | <frederickjh> Like me?
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| 13:27 | Well there always is tommorrow.
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| 13:27 | <Briareos1> frederickjh: server has 2 interfaces - one going out to the "world" (not directly ofc) and one to the gbit-switch with only ltsp-users attached to it
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| 13:27 | <alkisg> Gadi, I'm not even sure what mtu exactly does :D
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| 13:27 | (ok I know a little)
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| 13:27 | Gadi: there's a kernels-parameters.txt, did you look at that?
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| 13:28 | http://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt
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| 13:28 | <frederickjh> If the gbit gets full you can add a second one in parallel and bond the two together. bingo 2gigabit interface.
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| 13:28 | <Briareos1> frederickjh: after what happened today i am pretty afraid of tomorrow :] having some issues with our ERP-system ... and i'm not sure if it's related to the samba PDC ... and also the firefox-thing causing clients to crash ... and so forth ...
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| 13:28 | <Gadi> yeah, no joy - I think it is something I will need to code
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| 13:29 | <Briareos1> frederickjh: that sounds really good - and with iptraf i am finally able to find out where the cause actually is to be found
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| 13:29 | <Gadi> MTU = the maximum size of a packet your machine will send out its interface
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| 13:29 | <frederickjh> Business or school?
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| 13:29 | <Briareos1> frederickjh: biz
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| 13:29 | <Gadi> default is 1500 on linux/ethernet
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| 13:29 | <frederickjh> Yes that is a bit scary.
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| 13:30 | <grantk> Briareos - I have not seen everything that you have been saying but I had firefox causing issues when I was not using nbd_swap, so I was always running into oom errors and the xsession would get killed.
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| 13:30 | <Briareos1> frederickjh: i just started iptraf in a "screen" session, so i already have some data tomorrow i hope
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| 13:30 | grantk: nbd_swap?
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| 13:31 | <grantk> yep, most of my clients are pretty old and only have 64 -128 mb ram so I stated using nbdswap
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| 13:31 | just a few lines in the lts.conf and elsewhere.
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| 13:31 | briareos1: do you happen to be using ubuntu:
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| 13:32 | <Briareos1> grantk: yes
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| 13:32 | grantk: we especially are having issues with one client thats older/weaker than the others
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| 13:32 | grantk: so that may be an issue
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| 13:32 | <grantk> yep, that was my problem. I got tipped onto the memory issue by replacing one with a newer client that has 1gb mem
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| 13:32 | I have my instructions around here somewhere, hold up
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| 13:33 | <Briareos1> grantk: why is there so much memory usage on the client-side anyways?
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| 13:33 | <alkisg> Gadi: well a simple ifconfig or ip call in an rc script should do it, right?
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| 13:33 | <grantk> I am not too sure
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| 13:33 | I just noticed it was usually with people browsing the web in firefox
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| 13:34 | I also tried to switch as many users as I could to opera
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| 13:34 | it has smaller memory footprint, and limit the number of firefox addons people use
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| 13:34 | mozilla thunderbird was a problem as well
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| 13:34 | <Briareos1> grantk: i can pretty much delegate which browser is to be used in our environment, but i'd risk new issues with websites not displaying correctly, flash, java, ... (?)
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| 13:35 | <frederickjh> Opera 10.10 is pretty good compared to the old days.
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| 13:35 | <grantk> yeah, that would hold you back, I run 64bit here so I rely on that to keep me from worrying about flash right now
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| 13:35 | <frederickjh> I started using Opera back in 7.0 days.
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| 13:35 | <grantk> but on my laptop I use here I know that flash works just as good in chrome as it does in firefox
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| 13:35 | and chrome uses less memory
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| 13:36 | <Briareos1> grantk: chrome's not an option due to privacy reasons :)
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| 13:36 | <alkisg> Woah, gpxe 1.0 is out and has wireless support!
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| 13:36 | <Gadi> alkisg: I am trying to decide whether it needs to be done in initramfs (ie if mounting nbd would fail)
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| 13:37 | <Gadi> alkisg: I am inclined to think no
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| 13:37 | <alkisg> Gadi: why do you need to change it? Speed reasons?
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| 13:37 | <Gadi> alkisg: and it is safe to do it in rootfs-space
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| 13:37 | alkisg: it avoids fragmentation
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| 13:37 | <grantk> heh, chrome crashed on me, hold on i found those instructions!
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| 13:37 | <Gadi> alkisg: think of it this way
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| 13:38 | thin client sends packet size 1500 through router that only accepts MTU 1492
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| 13:38 | so packet need to be broken into two
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| 13:38 | and then reassembled
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| 13:38 | <grantk> http://pastie.org/816851
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| 13:39 | Briasreos1: That is missing the file size declaration, hold on there
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| 13:39 | <johnny> hmm..
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| 13:39 | <alkisg> Gadi: OK, so in the end, that's a speed reason. So you could probably do it any time, even after the clients boots... so whereever's easier, e.g. in an ldm rc script?
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| 13:39 | <Gadi> MTU is largely irrelelvent with the speed of modern network equipment, tho it can still impact networks with older equipment or gobs of traffic
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| 13:39 | <grantk> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/EnableNBDSWAP
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| 13:39 | <johnny> looking for 512mb for my clients.. what's the deal with ecc mem in non ecc using machines?
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| 13:39 | <Gadi> alkisg: right
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| 13:39 | I am thinking the same
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| 13:39 | <grantk> there is a /et/ltsp/nbdswapd.conf that needs created
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| 13:40 | puck1 has left #ltsp | |
| 13:40 | <grantk> Briareos1: here is an example of the swap files once created, they go to /tmp on the server
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| 13:40 | -rw------- 1 nobody nogroup 268435456 2010-02-08 19:38 tmp.AujJRBYVsb
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| 13:41 | those instructions were for ubuntu 8.04 but I used them with 9.04 and had no problems.
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| 13:41 | <Briareos1> grantk thank you ... will the client's ram still be used i guess?
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| 13:42 | <grantk> yes
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| 13:42 | <Briareos1> grantk: if, on the other hand, i update all clients to about 1 GB RAM - would that be the better solution (performance-wise)?
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| 13:42 | <grantk> I am not sure, I have not watched my clients with that much memory(only 3 of them!)
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| 13:43 | I imagine so since memory usually is better than swap
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| 13:43 | <Briareos1> grantk: ok. ... and nbd_swap will use the server's RAM primarly (if available) or will it go directly to a file?
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| 13:43 | <grantk> from my understanding directly to the file in /tmp
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| 13:45 | <Gadi> nbd_swap is swap space for processes running on the client
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| 13:45 | it supplements client memory not server memory
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| 13:45 | for things like Xorg (when it loads lots of bitmap images into client memory)
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| 13:47 | <dro> alkisg: you're right I didn't have any issue with karmic on vbox, of course I set the network to host only adapter
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| 13:49 | <Briareos1> Gadi ty
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| 13:52 | <johnny> alkisg, do you know if it's ok to put ecc memory in a non ecc mahine?
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| 13:53 | obviously i don't expect it to work with ecc :)
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| 13:53 | i read something that says it should on most machines
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| 13:53 | just wondering if anybody had any personal experience
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| 13:54 | <alkisg> johnny: I think I tried that but back with SDRAM, not with DDR...
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| 13:55 | It worked fine, if my memory serves me.
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| 13:57 | <johnny> sdram yes
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| 13:57 | ok
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| 15:00 | <vagrantc> stgraber: plans on tagging/uploading ltsp/ltsp/ltspfs for lucid still, or are you hitting freeze?
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| 15:10 | <alkisg> vagrantc, so is also apache going to change to using /srv?
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| 15:10 | <vagrantc> alkisg: haven't seen it happen yet.
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| 15:10 | <alkisg> stgraber started a topic on the ubuntu devel ml for this: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-February/030197.html
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| 15:12 | shogunx has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:12 | <vagrantc> yeah, i was CCed on part of it, at least
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| 15:13 | but our code actually supports the switch for /srv/tftp, it's just the documentation, no?
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| 15:15 | <alkisg> Hmm I'm not really sure
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| 15:15 | * alkisg looks... | |
| 15:17 | <vbundi> in /opt/ltsp/i386/lib/udev/ltspfs_entry it refers to /usr/share/ltsp/ltsp_config , is this file supposed to be missing?
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| 15:20 | <alkisg> Heh... "/tftpboot was the old location, while /var/lib/tftpboot is default in Fedora 9+." - I wonder when people will settle on a specific hierarchy :)
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| 15:21 | The code seems fine...
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| 15:21 | <vagrantc> vbundi: /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/ltsp_config should definitely be present.
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| 15:22 | <vbundi> vagrantc: doh yeah I actually meant /etc/ltspfs/ltspfsd.conf
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| 15:23 | <vagrantc> vbundi: that's optional.
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| 15:23 | vbundi: it's largely there to support the rare cases where ltspfs is installed without the rest of LTSP
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| 15:23 | <vbundi> oh ok
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| 15:24 | <vagrantc> the code should check if it's there or not... right?
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| 15:24 | <vbundi> vagrantc: I'm curious about this ltspfs_entry file because when I renamed it so that it wouldn't run my boot time sped up by 3 minutes
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| 15:25 | <vagrantc> vbundi: it could probably use some serious re-writing.
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| 15:25 | vbundi: but it's what is called by udev to support usb sticks, cdroms, floppy drives, etc.
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| 15:25 | <vbundi> vagrantc: yea it checks to see if it's there
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| 15:26 | vagrantc: ohh so by disabling this, it doesn't allow me to have local devices like that?
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| 15:26 | <vagrantc> i did some ugly code to support usb CDROMs in there that is probably slowing it down considerably.
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| 15:26 | vbundi: yes, it was there for reasons other than slowing down your boot times :P
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| 15:26 | <Gadi> time out
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| 15:26 | vagrantc: it isnt ur cDROM code
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| 15:26 | <vagrantc> if i wanted to have it run slow, i'd just use sleep 300 or some such
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| 15:27 | Gadi: well, i *know* my cdrom code is ugly and probably could use some optimizations...
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| 15:27 | <Gadi> we need to have ltsp_config write a cache file just for udev purposes
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| 15:27 | <Briareos1> puh ... enough for today ... have a nice night / day, thanks & see you soon
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| 15:27 | <vbundi> vagrantc: I wasn't assuming that you were trying to steal 3 minutes out of my day ;)
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| 15:28 | see ya
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| 15:28 | <stgraber> vagrantc: feature freeze is next thursday, so ideally, I'd have 5.2 out before that
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| 15:28 | <vagrantc> Gadi: it actually needs to check if they're running, though ... i.e. you unplug a usb cdrom, then caching values becomes wrong.
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| 15:28 | <Gadi> not caching for your cdrom
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| 15:28 | caching for ltsp_config
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| 15:29 | what vbundi means is that if we do NOT source ltsp_config from ltspfs_enty it speeds up his boot times
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| 15:29 | <vagrantc> ah.
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| 15:29 | <Gadi> this is because udev makes calls in parallel
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| 15:29 | <vagrantc> probably fairly race prone
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| 15:29 | <Gadi> and ltsp_config was not written to be called in paralle
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| 15:30 | <vagrantc> oh fun
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| 15:30 | <Gadi> yeah
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| 15:30 | well, there's a quick fix
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| 15:30 | which is to make any lts.conf param affecting ltspfs_entry only set on boot
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| 15:31 | <johnny> or just look at the environment vars?
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| 15:31 | <Gadi> by means of having ltsp_config write a separate cache file which is sourced by ltspfs_entry if present INSTEAD of sourcing ltsp_config
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| 15:31 | <johnny> /me is confused
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| 15:31 | how about we don't?
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| 15:31 | isn't there a way to just look at the environment vars?
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| 15:31 | and not source files except at startup? thus allowing them to be changed during runtime?
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| 15:31 | <Gadi> multiple udevd's will have multiple env's I believe
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| 15:32 | <johnny> sure.. but ther'es still only one system environment..
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| 15:32 | <Gadi> huh? each shell has its own env
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| 15:32 | <johnny> it starts a shell instance?
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| 15:32 | perhaps we need to store them somewhere else?
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| 15:32 | shm?
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| 15:32 | /proc ?
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| 15:32 | /sys ?
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| 15:33 | <Gadi> well, we should sort it out somehow
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| 15:33 | <johnny> sorry.. just suprised that this problem and similiar problems keep occuring
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| 15:33 | obviously sourcing the file isn't the way to do it
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| 15:34 | <Gadi> well, ogra is happy to accept patches
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| 15:34 | :)
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| 15:41 | <vagrantc> Gadi: but wasn't vbundi's problem just a sheer number of parallel ltspfs calls?
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| 15:42 | <Gadi> vagrantc: no, the issue is that there are so many ltspfs calls because ltspfs calls ltsp_config and ltsp_config is not returning
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| 15:42 | because all of the ltsp_config's step all over each other
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| 15:42 | <vagrantc> ah
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| 15:42 | <Gadi> when they do all the figuring out default vars and such
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| 15:43 | as well as writing to the filesystem
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| 15:43 | we do not have any file locking in there
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| 15:43 | <vagrantc> we could also make it block ... though that's risky.
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| 15:43 | <vagrantc> basically, a file lock check ...
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| 15:43 | <Gadi> yeah
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| 15:44 | at the minimum we should file lock check
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| 15:44 | <vagrantc> while -f /var/run/ltspfs/lock ; do sleep 1 ; done touch /var/run/ltspfs/lock
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| 15:44 | <Gadi> and do a better job of storing "decisions" that shouldn't change from boot time
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| 15:44 | <vagrantc> though i start to get uncomfortable about caching things that actually could change ...
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| 15:44 | <knipwim> johnny: can i commit this one?
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| 15:44 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~wimmuskee/ltsp/ltsp-gentoo-dev/revision/1496
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| 15:44 | <Gadi> right
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| 15:44 | I agree
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| 15:45 | <vagrantc> i.e. if we want high-availability thin clients, the root server could even change
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| 15:45 | <Gadi> we should try not to cache things that change
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| 15:46 | <johnny> why not store the vars in shm then?
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| 15:46 | <vagrantc> also, i put in chroot calls that would source ltsp_config from the initramfs...
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| 15:46 | <johnny> i just feel you guys are going about this the wrong way ...
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| 15:46 | i'm not sure why
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| 15:46 | it just feels wrong..
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| 15:47 | <vagrantc> johnny: i don't see why storing them in shm will solve anything
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| 15:47 | <johnny> perhaps we just need some api for getting vars..
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| 15:47 | like a function call..
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| 15:47 | but.. without instantiating a shell..
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| 15:48 | there's some missing piece of abstraction..
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| 15:48 | <vagrantc> perhaps... getltscfg
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| 15:48 | <johnny> that gets the whole thing
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| 15:48 | <alkisg> gconf :P :D
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| 15:48 | <johnny> i mean one at a time..
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| 15:48 | lol.. not gconf..
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| 15:48 | <vagrantc> really, ltsp_config is just a workaround for the limitations of getltscfg ...
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| 15:48 | <johnny> perhaps we should fix getltscfg instead..
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| 15:48 | <alkisg> Don't we also want to *store* information in ltsp_config?
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| 15:48 | <Gadi> I think it would go a long way just to clean up the code with the knowledge that it could be called in parallel
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| 15:48 | <alkisg> getltscfg only *reads* info, it can't write it...
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| 15:49 | <johnny> knipwim, sure
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| 15:49 | <Gadi> ie: ban the use of pgrep
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| 15:49 | <vagrantc> alkisg: and we can't fix it?
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| 15:49 | Gadi: what's so wrong with pgrep?
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| 15:49 | <alkisg> vagrantc: it should be another tool... I don't think getltscfg fits the bill here
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| 15:49 | <vbundi> I see quite a bit of pgrep going on in my bootchart durring the nbd_monitor
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| 15:49 | <vagrantc> alkisg: sure, possibly... but another similar one.
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| 15:50 | <Gadi> vagrantc: I think when multiple procs are calling pgrep at the same time, ur in for a world of hurt
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| 15:50 | <vagrantc> Gadi: got it.
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| 15:50 | <alkisg> And i'm not sure why shell isn't good enough already...
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| 15:50 | <johnny> there's got to be a way to background some of this stuff .. in some always running process
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| 15:50 | something that makes it easy to call..
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| 15:50 | doesn't start a whole new process just to tell us something
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| 15:50 | perhaps i'm dreaming..
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| 15:51 | but there must be some way..
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| 15:51 | shogunx has quit IRC | |
| 15:51 | <Gadi> most of the procs that we check for with pgrep *we* start ourselves
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| 15:51 | <Gadi> quite easy to have a process touch a file to say that it's alive
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| 15:52 | <alkisg> E.g.: ltsp_config checks a cache file, if it exists it just execs it. If not, it creates a lock file, generates the cache file, unlocks the lock, and execs the cache file...
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| 15:52 | <Gadi> and remove it when it goes away
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| 15:52 | <vbundi> I noticed quite a bit of it, even on my 2 minute bootchart http://imagebin.org/84115
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| 15:52 | <johnny> sure.. but ...
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| 15:52 | <alkisg> And if e.g. the server needs to be changed, then one just deletes that cache file
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| 15:52 | <vbundi> down near the bottom
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| 15:53 | <johnny> why can't we do stuff in /etc/profile ..
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| 15:53 | or whatever we can do so that udev already knows stuff each time..
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| 15:53 | i don't know.. just braining..
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| 15:53 | /me realizes he has to get to work soon before the snow gets really crazy
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| 15:53 | snopocalypse 2
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| 15:53 | we're breakin a season record here
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| 15:54 | <vbundi> where at
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| 15:54 | <johnny> 62 inches is the season record
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| 15:54 | we're at 60
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| 15:54 | half almost 2 feet on the ground
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| 15:54 | somewhere between 12 and 20 inches incoming
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| 15:54 | vbundi, baltimore, md
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| 15:54 | usa
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| 15:54 | <vbundi> wow, hope your city cleans it's streets better than mine
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| 15:54 | <johnny> not really
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| 15:55 | baltimore doesn't have the kind of setup as a city like chicago
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| 15:55 | or cities in other northern states
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| 15:55 | we're not prepared for this
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| 15:55 | as this is way out of the ordinary
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| 20:03 | <sbalneav> Evening all
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| 20:39 | <cliebow> v
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| 22:09 | <jammcq> hellooooo
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