IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 1 September 2013 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:48 | <Enslaver> Anyone alive?
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| 02:49 | * vagrantc waves | |
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| 03:13 | <Enslaver> ok
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| 03:13 | maybe we could get others input
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| 03:13 | <vagrantc> often a good thing :)
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| 03:13 | <Enslaver> true
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| 03:14 | if anyone else is alive vagrant and i were discussing the idea of incorporating ltsp into cluster management software as a kit, such as xCAT
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| 03:14 | Whats the status on ldm / authentication alternatives to the server
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| 03:14 | libpam_ssh was on the horizion last i heard, whats the status on that
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| 03:14 | <vagrantc> still in the early phases of throwing out LDM
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| 03:15 | libpam_sshauth works as a proof of concept with lightdm, GDM3 and KDM last i tried it.
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| 03:15 | still missing a lot of features, but you can log in with it and start a remote session
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| 03:16 | <Enslaver> One thing i've been playing with a lot is VirtualGL, combining the speeds of the libturbo compression for use over a thin client
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| 03:16 | libjpeg_turbo
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| 03:16 | which allows for quick 2D and even 3D graphics
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| 03:17 | <vagrantc> that sounds very interesting, saw a few posts on ltsp-discuss about that
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| 03:17 | <Enslaver> it basically pre-loads a 'faker' library on the client side
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| 03:18 | Theres commerical applications that are developed that do exacly that for 3D modeling and server side 3d rendering, nothing opensource as i've seen
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| 03:18 | but they are just calling the VirtualGL libraries
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| 03:20 | i'm gonna try a proof of concept remote desktop using virtualGL in the xCAT kit
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| 03:20 | <vagrantc> sounded like someone already proof-of-concept worked on virtualgl with LTSP, according to the mailing list
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| 03:21 | <Enslaver> hmm lemme go read that
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| 03:22 | it shouldnt be difficult, really it just requires you to LD_PRELOAD the lib before calling any X applications
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| 03:22 | <vagrantc> a thread started in jun, one comment in july, and some noise early august
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| 03:24 | <Enslaver> so basically they are saying to just run vglrun before it loads LDM
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| 03:25 | or have vglrun load ldm
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| 03:25 | but LDM will need to be coded to call vglrun before it hands off the desktop
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| 03:29 | <vagrantc> the post by Juan Ignacio Saitua on july 1st seems to use an ldm hook and a server-side hook... but seems like it should be possible just from the ldm hook, since the server side hook juts sets a variable
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| 03:30 | unless something cleans out the LD_PRELOAD variable...
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| 03:32 | <Enslaver> something as in ssh?
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| 03:33 | <vagrantc> ssh, or in the Xsession script
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| 03:33 | <Enslaver> ltsp's xsession script?
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| 03:34 | <vagrantc> no, /etc/X11/Xsession (which varies by distro)
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| 03:34 | i think there's code in ldminfod to detect the appropriate script
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| 03:37 | and the ldm screen.d script, in case ldminfod doesn't return one, it assumes it's the same as the client...
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| 03:37 | or maybe it's fancier than that...
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| 03:47 | Enslaver: looks like xcat isn't in debian yet, so that'd be one blocker from my perspective...
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| 03:47 | unless it's packaged under other names...
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| 03:50 | <Enslaver> Ive been looking for cluster management software that is
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| 03:51 | But with xcat i dont see any reason why it wouldnt work with debian
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| 03:52 | <vagrantc> it does sound like a fairly sizeable codebase with lots of parts, so it might be hard to get *into* Debian, which is different than working *with* Debian.
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| 03:53 | currently, LTSP on Debian requires no dependencies outside of Debian
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| 03:54 | it's actually the work of LTSP5 that made that possible, before it had to be distributed outside of Debian
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| 03:55 | since LTSP 4 and earlier were essentially their own distro, no major distribution was willing to incorporate it
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| 04:13 | <Enslaver> Whats LTSP GPL license version GPLv2 or 3?
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| 04:15 | <vagrantc> v2
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| 04:16 | or v2+
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| 04:46 | <epoptes_user3> hi can anyone help me with epoptes
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| 04:47 | I would like to automatically save screen images from a client at a regular intervals through epoptes
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| 05:04 | <Enslaver> vagrantc: looks like xCAT does support debian
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| 05:07 | <vagrantc> Enslaver: wonder how big a project it would be to integrate into Debian...
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| 05:12 | <Enslaver> vagrantc: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/xcat/index.php?title=DebianHowto
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| 05:12 | <khaos> Hey there can anyone help me with a login issue? Ubuntu 12.04 x64 ---- Fat Client x64 --- WinBind. I've been able to login just fine with all domain users but starting today I'm getting "No Response From Server, Restarting"
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| 05:13 | <Enslaver> vagrantc: its a bit old, 2.5.0, xcat 2.8.2 is out
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| 05:13 | <khaos> Local users that were created on the server are able to login without an issue
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| 05:13 | <Enslaver> nm http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/xcat/index.php?title=Ubuntu_Quick_Start
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| 05:33 | <khaos> Anyone have any ideas?
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| 05:34 | <khaos> I have already tried to update the sshkeys and image. PassAuth is on in ssh conf. Still no luck
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| 05:42 | <vagrantc> khaos: if local users are able to log in, it's not the ssh keys between it and the server...
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| 05:42 | khaos: are you able to ssh to the server as the winbind users?
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| 07:14 | <MonkWitDaFunk> Hi #ltsp, can the project be applied to a system as a samba server?
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| 12:22 | <alkisg> !socat
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| 12:22 | <ltsp> socat: One way to share a console with a remote person is: [local pc] forward port 5500; apt-get install socat; socat tcp-listen:5500,keepalive=1 stdio,raw,echo=0 [remote pc] apt-get install socat screen; socat SYSTEM:"sleep 1; exec screen -xRR ra",pty,stderr tcp:REMOTE-IP:5500 & screen -l -S ra
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| 12:23 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: ^
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| 13:08 | <bennabiy> alkisg or Vagrantc: Do you know which scripts specifically use the --arch variable when generating the client image?
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| 13:08 | I realized why my build was busyboxing I think
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| 13:09 | * alkisg doesn't use ltsp-build-client at all and uses ltsp-pnp instead... | |
| 13:09 | <alkisg> So I haven't looked at its internals in a long time
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| 13:11 | <bennabiy> alkisg: that is mostly for fat clients, right?
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| 13:11 | !ltsp-pnp
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| 13:11 | <ltsp> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 13:11 | <alkisg> For fat or for fat + thin
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| 13:11 | ...or for localapps
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| 13:11 | If it's a true thin client lab, then it's not worth it to use ltsp-pnp
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| 13:12 | <bennabiy> So basically, you set your server up as your model, and then a fat client image is made for that system and sent to the systems?
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| 13:13 | Does it do anything to the server from that point, like a common home, or is it all
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| 13:13 | <alkisg> Yes, the /opt/ltsp/i386.img image is built from the server / disk instead of using ltsp-build-client
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| 13:13 | <bennabiy> on the local client from that point?
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| 13:13 | <alkisg> Other than that part, it's normal LTSP
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| 13:13 | <bennabiy> ahh
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| 13:13 | <alkisg> So ldm, sshfs etc etc
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| 13:14 | <bennabiy> so it still uses the server for actual processing etc, except local apps support ?
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| 13:14 | <alkisg> Thin clients use the server, fat clients and localapps use local cpu
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| 13:15 | <bennabiy> but still get their home directories from the server through NBD?
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| 13:15 | <alkisg> Home never uses NBD
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| 13:15 | NBD is for the root fs
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| 13:15 | Home in LTSP uses sshfs or nfs
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| 13:16 | <bennabiy> Yes
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| 13:16 | Sorry, that is what I meant
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| 13:17 | while I have you here, I am having an issue mounting a usb HD on a thinclient
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| 13:18 | * alkisg doesn't use ltspfs either :) | |
| 13:18 | <bennabiy> it mounts fine on the server, but when I connect it to the client, it will mount to the local client ( checked through root shell) but will not ...
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| 13:18 | bah!
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| 13:22 | question: If I change --base when generating a client image, will it affect the other client images, or anything local to that client? Basically, if I use --base to change where the image is placed, so it does not overwrite a current version, and then move it into place, will it be defunct because something is hard referenced to --base location?
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| 13:48 | <faf> hi. Whats the status on running Edubuntu 13.04 with only one nic, like with proxydhcp, but using isc-dhcp-server instead?
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| 13:49 | <alkisg> faf: proxy means that another dhcp server is used
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| 13:49 | isc-dhcp doesn't support proxy
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| 13:49 | It does support 1-nic setups with the ltsp server being the dhcp server
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| 13:49 | And of course 1-nic setups with an external but configurable dhcp server are also supported, without the need of isc-dhcp
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| 13:52 | <faf> yeah, i have an external dhcp which I would like to use, but I would not touch it at all. I have tried with a clean system and installed proxydhcp manually, which worked nice, but now I'm testing edubuntu 13.04 and maybe there was a workaround so that I didnt have to use the proxydhcp.
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| 13:52 | I have a two-nic setup in the box
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| 13:54 | maybe I could add a next-server in my current dhcp?
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| 13:55 | <Zaphoid> I typicailly have DHCP on a different server then my tftp setup, and next-server works fine, there
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| 13:55 | <alkisg> Right, next-server, boot filename, and root path
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| 13:56 | <Zaphoid> next-server x.x.x.x;
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| 13:56 | filename "/ltsp/amd64/pxelinux.0";
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| 13:56 | Adjust as necessary.
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| 13:56 | <alkisg> root path is also needed in many cases
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| 13:57 | option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386";
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| 13:58 | <Zaphoid> I've not used thin clients with LTSP, which may make a difference for that option.
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| 13:58 | <alkisg> Some PXE clients just won't accept the DHCP request if it doesn't contain root path
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| 13:58 | ...and NBD and NFS use it as well
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| 13:58 | <Zaphoid> Ah, gotchya. Guess I've been lucky, then.
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| 13:58 | <alkisg> *the DHCP offer...
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| 13:59 | <Zaphoid> Yes. Hrmm. Might explain an issue I had with one piece of hardware. I'll have to try that out on Tuesday.
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| 14:00 | <faf> Trying it now
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| 14:00 | <alkisg> faf: do remove isc-dhcp-server from your ltsp server
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| 14:02 | <faf> and install proxyDHCP instead?
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| 14:02 | <alkisg> Nothing, just configure your external dhcp server
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| 14:02 | You have 2 options,
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| 14:02 | 1) configure your external dhcp,
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| 14:02 | 2) install proxydhcp
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| 14:03 | In both options, you remove isc-dhcp-server
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| 14:03 | <faf> the next server was on, but lloks like im getting a "tftp open timeout", I will try with the proxy setup
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| 14:03 | ok...thx...will test it
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| 14:03 | <alkisg> next-server on your *external* dhcp server
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| 14:03 | Not on the ltsp server
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| 14:04 | The LTSP server must not have isc-dhcp-server installed
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| 14:04 | <faf> yes of course :)
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| 14:04 | <bennabiy> Does --base do anything other than set the initial build location of the client image?
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| 14:05 | <faf> does this still apply?? - that I need to purge the standalone?: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP
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| 14:06 | <alkisg> http://packages.ubuntu.com/raring/ltsp-server-standalone
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| 14:06 | depends isc-dhcp-server or dnsmasq
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| 14:07 | So, if you don't have one of those 2, you can't have -standalone, you need to remove that as well
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| 14:07 | <bennabiy> I am doing my build of a test mint 15 image ( it is mostly a hybrid ubuntu 13.04 image, but built natively on Mint)
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| 14:07 | <faf> ok, i'll go with dnsmasq
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| 14:08 | <bennabiy> without having to do a --dist=(ubuntudist)
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| 14:09 | <faf> actually just tired a mint-mate build, but failed
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| 14:09 | but I will try with the dnsmasq and remove the ics.dhcp-server
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| 14:09 | thx
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| 14:12 | <bennabiy> Hey vagrantc: I am doing a revised build
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| 14:12 | no --dist argument
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| 14:13 | I had a dream and realized why my first one busyboxed
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| 14:13 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 14:13 | probably nothing mint-specific
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| 14:14 | <bennabiy> from what you had said, the --arch just names the directory it stores the chroot in, but I realized that it also determines the packages downloaded... so there are not packages with -mint at the end... or whatever else I could call them arch
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| 14:15 | so I am using --base to change where the client is built, and then going to try moving the images into place from there
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| 14:15 | so that I do not overwrite my current working version
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| 14:15 | <vagrantc> i would strongly recommend against --base
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| 14:16 | <bennabiy> I could not find out if it made changes on a level that affected the rest of the ltsp? Does it change the tftp or dhcp server settings?
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| 14:16 | <vagrantc> using --base will still break your currently working version
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| 14:16 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: what do you mean by "packages with -mint at the end" ?
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| 14:17 | bennabiy: instead of using --base use --chroot i386-mint
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| 14:17 | <bennabiy> ahh, that makes sense. You had said to use --arch to rename the files
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| 14:18 | <vagrantc> i don't believe i did. :P
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| 14:19 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: so use --arch i386 --chroot i386-mint (or amd64)
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| 14:20 | <bennabiy> 02:26:39 PM - vagrantc: bennabiy: --arch just basically sts the chroot name
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| 14:20 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: using base will wipe out your other kernels when you run ltsp-update-kernels
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| 14:21 | bennabiy: i might have meant to say --chroot
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| 14:21 | <bennabiy> You did say --chroot before, but then you said --arch
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| 14:21 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: sorry for the confusion
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| 14:22 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: How will --base wipe out my other installs, if I set the base to a different location?
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| 14:22 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: when you run ltsp-update-kernels, it will wipe out the tftp dirs
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| 14:23 | bennabiy: running ltsp-update-kernels without the --base will fix it again, but it's *so* much simpler to just use --chroot
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| 14:23 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 14:24 | I see... I will do that next time... this build is almost done.
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| 14:25 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: you could also just move aside the working version in /opt/ltsp and run without --chroot ... i.e. mv /opt/ltsp/i386 /opt/ltsp/i386-works
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| 14:25 | <bennabiy> One thing, we need a decent mint plymouth for the client... I customized mine to be a MATE subliminal ( Drink MATE)
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| 14:25 | True.
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| 14:25 | i thought of that, but did not want to disrupt my current clients, if one needed to reboot
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| 14:25 | <vagrantc> and then move it back when you're done ...
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| 14:26 | <bennabiy> Doesn't LTSP not even touch the folder? Doesn't it only deal with the .img file?
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| 14:26 | <vagrantc> it builds the image from the chroot
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| 14:26 | <bennabiy> yes, but as far as for booting the clients
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| 14:26 | <vagrantc> with NBD, yes. with NFS, it uses the chroot.
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| 14:26 | <bennabiy> I use NBD
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| 14:27 | <vagrantc> recent versions can use either pretty much interchangeably.
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| 14:27 | <bennabiy> ok... trying to boot my first client
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| 14:29 | Hmm. It did not seem to change my tftp settings
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| 14:29 | when I used --base
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| 14:29 | I loaded up my current working i386 image by default
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| 14:32 | it did not change the /etc/ltsp/dhcp.conf which tells where to pull the tftp root
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| 14:34 | hmm, I am not having much success getting the dhcp server to issue the right path to tftp server
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| 14:36 | Isn't it dhcp.conf that passes the info to tftp server?
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| 14:38 | bah, I figured it out..
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| 14:40 | hmmm maybe not
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| 14:40 | vagrantc: you there?
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| 14:50 | <bennabiy> I am rebuilding with --chroot
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| 14:51 | What is the best way to pick and choose from different images? Couldn't I make a simple menu from tftp, and then have a choice of which one loads, defaulting to the known good if nothing is chosen? I thought I had set that up before, but could not remember how to get the changes to stick in the config
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| 15:02 | <bennabiy> did I scare everyone off?
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| 15:18 | Ok, it is official.. it worked. Now it is just a matter of updating the plymouth, and the ldm login screen default
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| 15:19 | <bennabiy> !seen ltsp
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| 15:19 | <ltsp> ltsp was last seen in #ltsp 8 weeks, 5 days, 23 hours, 34 minutes, and 14 seconds ago: <ltsp> thin client doesn't have this port open
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| 15:34 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: sounds like you figured it out for yourself? :)
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| 15:35 | <bennabiy> no, I just renamed the files and booted to the i386.img (which was the one I just built)
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| 15:35 | I did not make the menu
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| 15:35 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: using --base will not change your tftp settings, but it will delete kernels from the TFTP dirs that aren't present in the corresponding ltsp dirs.
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| 15:36 | i reworked the pxelinux menu system a bit, but it doesn't support multiple chroots yet.
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| 15:36 | it isn't too hard to manually add it, though.
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| 15:36 | <bennabiy> I have gotten it to, by doing some ../ redirection to other kernels
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| 15:37 | using the i386 as the base for the menu, and then loading from there the other kernels
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| 15:37 | <vagrantc> configure dhcp to point the filename to "/pxelinux.0" rather than "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0" and then configure the menus however you want in <tftpdir>/pxelinux.cfg
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| 15:37 | <bennabiy> How can I commit my changes somewhere that they can be used?
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| 15:37 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: the changes to the dirs?
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| 15:37 | bennabiy: to support mint?
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| 15:37 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 15:38 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: create a branch on launchpad and ask for it to be merged
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| 15:38 | <bennabiy> Do I need to upload all my files, or only the changed ones?
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| 15:38 | I downloaded the full ltsp branch
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| 15:39 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: commit your changes to the branch, upload the branch to launchpad, and there's a way to submit a merge request
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| 15:40 | <bennabiy> what command do I use to do that? I know I have bzr registered with my launchpad ID
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| 15:44 | vagrantc: Is there an effective visual map of the location of files by name in the branch?
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| 15:45 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: client/share gets installed with ltsp-client* packages /usr/share, server/share gets installed in ltsp-server's /usr/share
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| 15:46 | bennabiy: you just made changes to the ltsp-build-client plugins?
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| 15:46 | <bennabiy> so to update my LinuxMint folder to the source, it would go in server/share
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| 15:46 | yes, and a link in debootconf
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| 15:46 | <vagrantc> debootconf?
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| 15:46 | deboostrap?
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| 15:47 | <bennabiy> yes, sorry, I am not feeling the greatest today... brain is only half here
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| 15:47 | <vagrantc> it would be best to avoid requiring that... i thought we came up with a better way to do thhat?
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| 15:47 | <bennabiy> that is right...
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| 15:47 | <vagrantc> i.e. build the ubuntu chroot with debootstrap, and then add in the linuxmint stuff afterwards
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| 15:48 | <bennabiy> refer to my previous comment.
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| 15:48 | * vagrantc forgets how to push to launchpad | |
| 15:48 | <vagrantc> i've done it so rarely...
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| 15:48 | <bennabiy> I made a note of that somewhere, but I guess that only helps if you look at your notes
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| 15:48 | brb
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| 15:48 | <vagrantc> or rather, new branches ...
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| 15:51 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: https://help.launchpad.net/Code/UploadingABranch
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| 15:52 | bennabiy: so probably: bzr push lp:~bennabiy/ltsp/ltsp-mint
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| 15:55 | <bennabiy> thanks!
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| 15:55 | Let me make my changes, then I will let you know when it is pushed up. Should I include the audio fix in my push as well?
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| 15:56 | <vagrantc> no, make a separate branch for each feature/fix, typically.
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| 15:57 | not that i'm typically very good at that myself... :)
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| 16:02 | <bennabiy> I guess that is my question. I downloaded the whole ltsp trunk, but should I have the trunk as my upload with my changes, or should it only have what is modified from the trunk?
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| 16:02 | or will the system sort that out?
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| 16:06 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: you won't be uploading to ltsp directly yet, just uploading your own branches, and we'll merge them in
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| 16:07 | bennabiy: so i would keep a working branch from ltsp trunk, and then one for mint, and one for whatever other fixes you might propose
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| 16:08 | bennabiy: i.e. bzr branch lp:ltsp ; bzr branch ltsp ltsp-mint ; bzr branch ltsp ltsp-FEATUREFIXFOO
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| 16:10 | bennabiy: and then bzr push lp:~user/ltsp/ltsp-mint ; bzr push lp:~user/ltsp/ltsp-FEATUREFIXFOO ; etc...
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| 16:11 | <bennabiy> I think I understand... how do I pull down an updated version of the ltsp trunk?
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| 16:12 | so basically, I need to set up a working folder on my system, commit the changes to that, and then sync it to the launchpad repo?
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| 16:12 | <vagrantc> Enslaver: did your rhel merge request ever make it in? https://code.launchpad.net/~enslaver-l/ltsp/ltsp-rhel/+merge/151353
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| 16:13 | bennabiy: cd ltsp ; bzr pull
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| 16:19 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: and then in the ltsp-mint dir, you'd want to copy files into their appropriate places, and bzr add NEWFILES ; bzr commit ; bzr push lp:~bennabiy/ltsp/ltsp-mint
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| 16:20 | bennabiy: bzr status is helpful to make sure you've got everything you want to commit
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| 16:21 | might want to liberally use bzr status before commit and/or push
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| 16:23 | <bennabiy> ok
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| 16:25 | Vagrantc: To recap - create the structure for where files go, but only place in the structure the files which I am changing/adding and then once I make sure that the files are the right ones through bzr status, commit them and push them up to my branch
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| 16:25 | in relation to the trunk structure
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| 16:27 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: this link might also be helpful: http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/mini-tutorial/index.html
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| 16:30 | bennabiy: that sounds about right
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| 16:32 | <bennabiy> I found that same tutorial.. I am going over it now.. but time for lunch.. back in a bit
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| 17:05 | <bennabiy> back
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| 17:33 | <bennabiy> alksig: question about using bzr...
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| 18:16 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: if I do a bzr add ltsp-mint (which is a folder) would it grab whatever is within that folder automatically?
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| 18:34 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: yes...
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| 18:34 | bennabiy: but the folder should be named after what lsb_releas returns
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| 18:34 | lsb_release
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| 18:34 | lsb_release --id --short
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| 18:36 | <bennabiy> I am still trying to wrap my mind around where to do my edits.
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| 18:37 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: you've got a bzr branch from launchpad, right?
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| 18:37 | <bennabiy> Basically, I pulled down the lp:ltsp and have that on my drive.
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| 18:37 | yes
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| 18:37 | <vagrantc> ok, then make a fork of that branch: bzr branch ltsp ltsp-mint
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| 18:37 | bennabiy: then do your edits inside ltsp-mint
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| 18:38 | and then do your add, commit, etc. in there.
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| 18:38 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: wouldn't that in effect make me push a lot of duplicate content up to the launchpad when I commit and push?
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| 18:39 | or is it good that it would be that way?
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| 18:40 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: i would guess launchpad is configured to share common commits between branches.
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| 18:40 | buut maybe not.
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| 18:40 | <bennabiy> I guess it would really only matter when it comes to merging
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| 18:41 | <vagrantc> it would only matter with the time you spend pushing a new branch
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| 18:41 | <bennabiy> I just made my fork, I will make my changes, commit and then push
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| 18:41 | <vagrantc> good :)
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| 18:41 | <bennabiy> I will let you know when I am done so you can let me know if I did it all wrong
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| 18:43 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: better to do it wrong and make progress, it's generally easy enough to fix :)
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| 18:44 | <bennabiy> Now, I only include support in it back to the LTS
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| 18:44 | does that seem good?
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| 18:44 | <vagrantc> can always improve it later :)
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| 18:44 | better to get the initial framework and concepts in first
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| 18:44 | than worry about getting it perfect
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| 18:44 | <bennabiy> Good point
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| 18:45 | <vagrantc> perfection is the enemy of good, or some such
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| 18:46 | <bennabiy> when I do a bzr status it tells me unknown
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| 18:46 | <vagrantc> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_is_the_enemy_of_good
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| 18:46 | <bennabiy> and then the filename
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| 18:46 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: sounds like you need to bzr add filename
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| 18:46 | <bennabiy> ahh
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| 18:46 | yes
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| 18:49 | ok It should be there
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| 18:51 | https://code.launchpad.net/~bennabiy/ltsp/ltsp-LinuxMint
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| 18:53 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: How would you recommend updating the plymouth and ldm artwork?
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| 18:54 | I have versions which could drop in place, if I know where to reference them.
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| 18:56 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: you'd have to talk to mint developers about that ... each distro ships it's own artwork in packages that the others don't share.
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| 18:56 | ideally, we should rope in some mint developers for LTSP support, too...
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| 19:01 | <bennabiy> We have had contact with the developers before, perhaps if sbalneav could help as well, it would speed things up
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| 19:02 | There already is a LinuxMint plymouth which is used in the distro... Is it not possible to pull that from a repository and then set it as the default in the client build process?
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| 19:20 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: oh, yeah, that's probably possible to add
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| 19:22 | bennabiy: if there are already packages for it, you'd just have to add them in the plugins.
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| 19:22 | bennabiy: but the LDM theme will require a new package, i presume, or adding it to one of the existing packages.
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| 19:27 | <bennabiy> What is the best way to go about that?
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| 19:27 | Did you see my post?
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| 19:29 | vagrantc: should I request a reviewer?
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| 19:29 | I am proposing a merge
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| 19:30 | ltsp-upstream commiters?
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| 19:32 | vagrantc: where is the plymouth configuration set? client/share/?
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| 19:34 | <bennabiy> submitted
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| 19:45 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: plymouth is typically handled by plymouth, not ltsp.
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| 19:46 | <bennabiy> so it is just a matter of pulling the package, and then at stage (?) make the package the default... am I thinking right?
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| 19:48 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: it looks like most of the plugins you've added should just by symlinks to the Ubuntu or Debian plugins.
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| 19:49 | <bennabiy> that is what I was just going to fix
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| 19:49 | there really are only three files modified.
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| 19:49 | I think it is that way because I copied the Ubuntu folder and then modified its files
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| 19:52 | <vagrantc> yeah, but you should just symlink the unmodified files... and there are some files (like 030-artwork)
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| 19:55 | bennabiy: i took the review and made a comment and marked it as needs fixing
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| 20:01 | <bennabiy> Ok. It is updated now.
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| 20:02 | do I need to do anything to resubmit it for review?
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| 20:02 | I noticed that your sound fix got pushed through. that is encouraging
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| 20:03 | <vagrantc> one other minor fix, i don't think you should link 030-artwork at all- it's ubuntu specific. review other symlinked plugins like that
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| 20:03 | bennabiy: but then it looks passable to me
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| 20:06 | bennabiy: does anything add the mint repository gpg keys?
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| 20:07 | <bennabiy> let me check
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| 20:08 | <vagrantc> i.e. you don't need to run with --accept-unsigned-packages
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| 20:08 | <bennabiy> nope
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| 20:09 | It has the ubuntu key installed, and because the client is being built from a computer which has the mint key already installed, it should work I am guessing
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| 20:09 | I can put a check in there for it...
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| 20:09 | <vagrantc> start with this
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| 20:10 | <bennabiy> I think I need to remove 030-fat-client as well, until I can customize it more for mint.
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| 20:10 | it references the ubuntu desktop
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| 20:11 | I do not do anything with fat clients... so I am not sure how detrimental it would be without it in there...
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| 20:13 | hmm, I think I can swap out the MATE desktop for it... :)
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| 20:20 | ok
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| 20:21 | vagrantc: what would be the best way to check my chroot to see if it needs mint keys added?
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| 20:23 | It looks like Ubuntu just uses the Debian --accept-unsigned-packages
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| 20:36 | * alkisg wonders if mint support should be a separate LinuxMint dir, or just a couple of files inside the Ubunt udir... | |
| 20:37 | <bennabiy> alkisg: Whichever works. It needs to have a placeholder LinuxMint folder one way or the other...
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| 20:37 | <alkisg> Why?
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| 20:37 | <bennabiy> because it will not build otherwise
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| 20:37 | <alkisg> Ah, for the distrib variable...
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| 20:37 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 20:37 | <alkisg> It can be a symlink
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| 20:38 | <bennabiy> There are a couple more things which would cause me to think its own folder, like customizing for kiosk mode
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| 20:39 | <alkisg> Why would the kiosk mode be different?
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| 20:39 | <bennabiy> It is a place where the Mint themes would be used, rather than human
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| 20:40 | I guess you could modify ubuntus to test if $MINTDIST is set
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| 20:40 | <alkisg> Don't the other Ubuntu variants also have their own themes?
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| 20:40 | Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu etc etc?
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| 20:40 | <bennabiy> yes, but ubuntu pulls them all under *buntu-desktop etc
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| 20:41 | <alkisg> And there's no mint-desktop package?
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| 20:41 | <bennabiy> There is
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| 20:42 | The nature of mint is that for all intensive purposes, the client is an ubuntu client. Mint is mostly a change of the graphical interface
| |
| 20:42 | which is where the mint repositories would come into play
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| 20:42 | there is a different window theme, and even window manager
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| 20:43 | <alkisg> All ubuntu flavors have their own themes, the ltsp-build-client scripts supposedly take that into account
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| 20:43 | I don't think mint is so vastly different from the other flavors to justify its own dir...
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| 20:44 | <bennabiy> The thing is, LinuxMint does not see itself as a flavor of ubuntu
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| 20:45 | <alkisg> I don't see any mint debootstrap scripts
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| 20:45 | <bennabiy> Nope
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| 20:46 | <alkisg> What are the contents of /etc/lsb-release?
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| 20:47 | <bennabiy> http://pastebin.com/Y21trXfL
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| 20:49 | Mint is based on Ubuntu, but as far as I understand, they modify the code, more than just a different theme
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| 20:50 | <alkisg> It uses the same DISTRIB_ID for both the Ubuntu and Debian-based variant
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| 20:50 | So it will need to be special-cased anyway
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| 20:50 | (in the detect_vendor() function)
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| 20:51 | When it's Ubuntu based, as far as LTSP is concerned, DISTRIB_ID can be mapped to Ubuntu,
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| 20:51 | and for LMDE, to Debian...
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| 20:51 | <bennabiy> Would that be true for debian, as they do a rolling version?
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| 20:51 | <alkisg> Isn't that the same as debian sid? debootstrap supports that...
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| 20:52 | See their sources.list and compare those to a debian box
| |
| 20:52 | <bennabiy> I do not have a Debian install yet ( I could do a VM of it )
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| 20:52 | <alkisg> So without looking too much into it, I think LinuxMint support should be 2-3 files inside Debian/ and Ubuntu/ dirs, and a few "if"s in detect_vendor() etc
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| 20:54 | When running ltsp-build-client under LMDE, one would expect an LMDE chroot as well, right?
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| 20:55 | <vagrantc> hmmm.
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| 20:55 | <bennabiy> Whatever you suggest... I just want to see it changed so Mint users do not have to jump through hoops to make a build
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| 20:55 | <vagrantc> i had though about a mechanism for derivatives to just have overlay dirs without having so many symlinks all over
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| 20:56 | alkisg: I could see it either way, really. having it as a separate dir makes it clearer what it's modifying, and the differences are easier to compare
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| 20:56 | <alkisg> vagrantc: where would the symlinks point to? the debian or the ubuntu dir?
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| 20:56 | <bennabiy> I know as it is, it works
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| 20:57 | <vagrantc> if statements nested in case statements get a little ugly.
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| 20:57 | and that allows the linuxmint branch to deviate without coordination from the parent distro.
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| 20:57 | <bennabiy> alkisg: if you look at the ubuntu, most of the statements in there are pointed to debian
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| 20:57 | <vagrantc> rather than potentially mucking something up in the parent distro's dir.
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| 20:58 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I think then 2 mint dirs would be required, not one
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| 20:58 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yes, another for LMDE
| |
| 20:58 | * vagrantc always wanted to do overlays rather than symlinks | |
| 20:58 | <bennabiy> vagrantc alksig: let me do a mint debian install and see what the lsb-release output is
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| 20:58 | <vagrantc> of course then it requires blank files if you want a different ordering...
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| 20:59 | * alkisg is fine with 2 dirs and with overlays | |
| 20:59 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: someone confirmed it was LMDE, i think.
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| 20:59 | <bennabiy> ok
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| 20:59 | * vagrantc adds it on the TODO list of eternal somedays | |
| 20:59 | <bennabiy> I think LMDE would be fine to do a straight pointing to debian for all intensive purposes in the client build
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| 20:59 | <alkisg> DISTRIB_ID=LinuxMint
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| 20:59 | DISTRIB_RELEASE=1
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| 20:59 | DISTRIB_CODENAME=debian
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| 20:59 | DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="LMDE MATE Edition"
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| 21:00 | <vagrantc> doh!
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| 21:00 | <alkisg> That's /etc/lsb-release for LMDE
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| 21:00 | <vagrantc> that's going to be obnoxious.
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| 21:00 | <bennabiy> heh
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| 21:00 | <vagrantc> that's just plain broken.
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| 21:00 | <alkisg> detect_vendor() will need some hoops ther e:)
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| 21:00 | * bennabiy stirs the pot... | |
| 21:00 | <vagrantc> i'll pretend I didn't see that.
| |
| 21:01 | <bennabiy> I really hate to do it, but we have a pretty bad storm rolling through. I might be on in a couple hours... please let me know what you all come to
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| 21:02 | <alkisg> IMHO we could just pretend that Mint is an Ubuntu flavor, and LMDE some Debian flavor, and skip the 2 dirs / overlays etc part
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| 21:02 | <vagrantc> hrm.
| |
| 21:02 | seems messier, but that's Mint.
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| 21:04 | alkisg: so you had an LMDE install sitting around somewhere?
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| 21:04 | <alkisg> vagrantc: kvm -cdrom lmde.iso
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| 21:05 | And here's nadia:
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| 21:05 | DISTRIB_ID=LinuxMint
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| 21:05 | DISTRIB_RELEASE=14
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| 21:05 | DISTRIB_CODENAME=nadia
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| 21:05 | DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Linux Mint 14 Nadia"
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| 21:05 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: looks like you may have committed without pushing the last updates?
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| 21:06 | <bennabiy> let me check
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| 21:06 | <vagrantc> alkisg: ah, handy.
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| 21:06 | alkisg: Nadia is ubuntu-based?
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| 21:06 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 21:07 | <vagrantc> ah, the quantal variant
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| 21:07 | <bennabiy> Named = Ubuntu
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| 21:07 | yes
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| 21:07 | Maya was precious
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| 21:07 | I mean precise
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| 21:07 | Ok, I better go... Lightning less than a mile away
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| 21:08 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: alright, try to push that bzr branch when you get a chance
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| 21:09 | alkisg: so you think a few if statements in the Debian/Ubuntu dirs should cover it?
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| 21:09 | <alkisg> vagrantc: a mirror in e.g. line 5 of sources.list, gets priority over another mirror in e.g. line 10 of sources.list? And, what about sources.list.d/files?
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| 21:09 | <bennabiy> check now
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| 21:09 | <vagrantc> alkisg: not sure if sources.list takes priority over sources.list.d/*.list, but it's some predictible order.
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| 21:10 | <bennabiy> It should be the latest
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| 21:10 | <alkisg> The "if"s in detect_vendor() are necessary for Mint... so after that, it's just missing the repositories, it should be doable with 2 files
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| 21:10 | <vagrantc> alkisg: the ordering mostly only affects which it will download from if they both have the same versions
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| 21:10 | it will always download the newest versions unless there's apt pinning
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| 21:11 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: do you see the changes?
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| 21:11 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: yup. go save yourself from lightning!
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| 21:12 | <alkisg> The olivia=>raring etc mapping can go to detect_vendor,
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| 21:12 | + MINT_MIRROR="http://packages.linuxmint.com" can become e.g. EXTRA_MIRROR,
| |
| 21:12 | ...and that was all?
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| 21:13 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so my nervousness with merging them into Debian/Ubuntu trees is just one of clarity, especially if another feature here or there becomes needed.
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| 21:13 | <alkisg> I was thinking of just 001-mint-configuration
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| 21:13 | <vagrantc> also, if there's a mint-specific thing that applies to the Ubuntu variant but not the Debian variant, but Ubuntu currently symlinks to the Debian plugin...
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| 21:13 | <alkisg> ...we can't avoid the detect_vendor changes in any case
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| 21:14 | Debian/001-mint-configuration and Ubuntu/001-mint-configuration
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| 21:14 | <vagrantc> alkisg: using --extra-mirror means that it won't be able to use the commandline to overwrite it
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| 21:14 | so detect_vendor needs the changes to support the Ubuntu vs. Debian variants, or something else?
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| 21:14 | <alkisg> We can take care of that somehow... either with "string1 \n string2", or with an extra variable...
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| 21:15 | Something else - to map from "LinuxMint" to Ubuntu
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| 21:15 | ...or to Debian
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| 21:15 | ...based on DISTRIB_CODENAME
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| 21:16 | <vagrantc> right
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| 21:16 | or we convince mint to rename it LinuxMintDebian :)
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| 21:17 | wait, detect_vendor could be overridden on mint by adding ltsp-*-functions-vendor, no?
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| 21:18 | then it'll require patches to the mint packages that aren't present on debian/ubuntu packages...
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| 21:18 | alkisg: you wanna comment on the merge request?
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| 21:18 | <alkisg> Since mint doesn't ship its own ltsp packages, I don't think overwriting would help
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| 21:18 | *overriding
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| 21:19 | * vagrantc has to go for now... | |
| 21:19 | <alkisg> I don't think I have time for it this week
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| 21:19 | Tomorrow it's first work day
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| 21:19 | <vagrantc> so bennabiy's current patches should work for LinuxMint (ubuntu variants)
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| 21:19 | <alkisg> And we have some seminar planned in the first week...
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| 21:19 | <vagrantc> but not for LMDE
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| 21:20 | <alkisg> I think they're building an ubuntu chroot
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| 21:20 | <vagrantc> right
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| 21:20 | <alkisg> So they need much more work anyway
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| 21:20 | <vagrantc> and it'll fail when CODENAME=debian
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| 21:20 | <alkisg> ...if they're to build a mint chroot...
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| 21:20 | <vagrantc> alkisg: mint is basically just ubuntu with a few extra packages.
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| 21:20 | or debian with a few extra packages...
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| 21:21 | <alkisg> It does need a separate desktop environment though, right?
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| 21:21 | <vagrantc> right
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| 21:21 | <alkisg> I don't see that defined in the patches...
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| 21:21 | <vagrantc> that's the extra packages.
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| 21:21 | that'd be just in ldminfod
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| 21:21 | <alkisg> And, where's the mate/cinnammon etc installation?
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| 21:21 | <vagrantc> er, ldm-server
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| 21:21 | or for that fatclient plugins, which i think they removed for now
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| 21:22 | ah, it uses the Debian fat-client plugin, which requires selecting your desktop.
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| 21:23 | which might work :)
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| 21:23 | * vagrantc thinks it's mergeable as is, despite the lack of LMDE support | |
| 21:23 | <vagrantc> but maybe i'm just getting sloppy.
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| 21:24 | <alkisg> So you'd go for a separate LinuxMint/ dir, instead of a couple of scripts inside Ubuntu/ and Debian/ ?
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| 21:25 | <alkisg> (and would expect another LMDE/ one in the future, with the appropriate casing in detect_vendor() ?)
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| 21:26 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i guess, if we have to do special-casing anyways.
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| 21:27 | i guess we don't *have* to support linux mint :)
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| 21:27 | alkisg: for some reason i really don't like the special-casing in the ltsp-build-client plugin dirs...
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| 21:28 | <alkisg> There wouldn't be special casing there, only a couple of scripts with "mint" in their names
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| 21:28 | <alkisg> Existing code wouldn't be touched in the plugins...
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| 21:28 | <vagrantc> that only respond to mint variables
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| 21:28 | i guess i could see that being workable
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| 21:29 | * vagrantc really wishes the mint devs would help their users out on this... | |
| 21:29 | <vagrantc> 000-basic-configuration, 000-basic-configuration-mint
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| 21:29 | <alkisg> There are some bug reports in launchpad regarding lsb_release and mint...
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| 21:30 | If those are fixed, then we won't need the detect_vendor workarounds anymore - but the 00-baseic-configuration-mint scripts will continue to be required
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| 21:30 | Anyways, /me needs to get up very early tomorrow, so 'night all... :)
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| 21:30 | <vagrantc> alkisg: good to see you! take care!
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| 21:36 | <vagrantc> hmmm... probably worth updating LTSP in Debian again before spending too much energy with Mint support :)
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