IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 8 July 2013 (all times are UTC)
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| 13:11 | <intekk> hi folks i need to query an issue i have with an lts - one issue is (after updates) no no longer get a display on the server, i can however connect to the server via a client. My other (more major) issue is that my wireless clients do not detect wireless adapter ~ as well as getting a mismatch error with network manager. -edubuntu
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| 13:36 | <workingcats> intekk, mismatch error? what is the output of ifconfig when you run it as local root on the clients, does the interface show up? does the network interface work if you try to boot a client from a *buntu livecd (of the same version as what you're trying to use with ltsp)?
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| 14:14 | <intekk> eth0 lo lxcbr0
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| 14:14 | no wlan0
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| 14:15 | "the system network services are not compatible with this version" when accessing Network in settings
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| 14:41 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 14:42 | <bengoa> sbalneav, morning
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| 14:43 | <sbalneav> bengoa!!!!
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| 14:43 | How's fisl?
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| 14:43 | <bengoa> sbalneav, it was nice.
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| 14:43 | missing you and jim
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| 14:44 | <sbalneav> Cool. But you're coming up for ltsp hackfest, is the rumour.
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| 14:44 | <bengoa> hehe. I'm doing my best to be there on October
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| 14:46 | Jim and you will expend that few days on NYC this year?
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| 14:47 | <ogra_> do we have a date yet ?
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| 14:47 | <bengoa> I guess it will be on late October
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| 14:48 | <ogra_> sure, as always ... i meant more a fixed date so we can plan vacations and book flights etc
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| 14:48 | <intekk> thanks for your help
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| 14:48 | * ogra_ is pondering to drive up the coast from NY this time | |
| 14:48 | <ogra_> and take a few days extra
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| 14:48 | <bengoa> I don't know the exact date yet
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| 14:49 | <bengoa> I'm thinking to fly to Detroit and make all the way trip with Jim and Scotty
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| 17:52 | <DJUnreal> eveninig all
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| 17:52 | how goes?
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| 17:54 | <muppis> Sleezz..
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| 18:46 | * DJUnreal stretches | |
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| 18:48 | * dead_inside takes nap | |
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| 19:07 | <DJUnreal> Welcome Back alkisg
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| 19:07 | <alkisg> Hi DJUnreal, hi all
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| 19:08 | <DJUnreal> question... ltsp-cluster... the docs don't suggest it's mainstream for anything other than ubuntu... will it play nice with debian?
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| 19:09 | <alkisg> Dunno, I've never tried ltsp-cluster. The ltsp debian maintainer is vagrantc, but I don't think he has tried it either, so if it's available in debian, it might not be in a good state...
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| 19:10 | <DJUnreal> it doesn't appear to be in apt... i'm wondering if downloading the tar files direct from ltsp-cluster will work...
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| 19:10 | To Be Honest i'm not fussed about the intelligent features
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| 19:10 | but after last weekend's attempt to get a second login server working, and hitting a brick wall when the client i chose to test with tried to connect to server 2...
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| 19:11 | <alkisg> Setting up a second login server without -cluster shouldn't be hard...
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| 19:11 | <DJUnreal> what i've done so far:
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| 19:11 | install a second base system
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| 19:12 | install ltsp-server packages
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| 19:12 | set up NIS and confirmed that works
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| 19:12 | set up NFS to share home dirs to help with NIS
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| 19:13 | checked that worked too
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| 19:13 | built the client on the master server
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| 19:13 | mounted /opt/ltsp on the slave server through nfs RW, re-exported ro
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| 19:13 | so from my thinking... the second server should have everything it needs to be a login node...
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| 19:14 | 'cept when a client tries to connect to it, it gets 'connection refused' after it's picked up the boot image, when it tries to establish the remote-X session
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| 19:14 | <alkisg> Why the /opt/ltsp mounting? I don't think it'll help, unless your networking is strange...
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| 19:14 | * DJUnreal wasn't sure if it was needed or not on the slave server | |
| 19:14 | <DJUnreal> so i figured better safe than sorry
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| 19:15 | <alkisg> Anyway, since it booted, it's ok, it might just be slower
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| 19:15 | <DJUnreal> yeah, the client boots. from the master server, gets its IP, gets the TFTP image
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| 19:15 | <alkisg> So, try getting a shell screen on a slave client, and login from there to the server with ssh
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| 19:15 | !screen_08
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| 19:15 | <ltsp`> screen_08: To get a root shell on a Debian thin client, put SCREEN_07=ldm, SCREEN_08=shell and SCREEN_DEFAULT=07 to lts.conf.
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| 19:15 | <DJUnreal> i used SERVER= in the lts.conf
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| 19:16 | <alkisg> No need for SERVER, better use LDM_SERVER=
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| 19:16 | <DJUnreal> ah ok
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| 19:16 | * DJUnreal will change that | |
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| 19:16 | <alkisg> And you can then ditch the /opt/ltsp mounting
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| 19:16 | <DJUnreal> rgr
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| 19:16 | brb, gonna plug some cables in, fire up the servers and see if i can make these changes
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| 19:29 | <DJUnreal> Welcome Back vagrantc
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| 19:33 | * vagrantc waves | |
| 19:33 | <DJUnreal> just about to do some more testing on this stack
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| 19:34 | blimey though, brb while i open some windows 'cause it's gettin' VERY hot in here!!!
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| 19:35 | take it from me... 3 enterprise class servers in a living room cause a lot of heat
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| 19:36 | especially 10-year-old enterprise class servers
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| 19:37 | <vagrantc> setting up a little home network? :)
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| 19:38 | <DJUnreal> hell no
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| 19:38 | this server stack is out at an event with 4000 kids again this weekend
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| 19:38 | and i gotta have it working better than it did last weekend
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| 19:40 | <vagrantc> 4000 kids in your living room?
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| 19:41 | <DJUnreal> hell no
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| 19:41 | * DJUnreal is off to the UK Scout HeadQuarters | |
| 19:41 | <vagrantc> may LTSP be with you
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| 19:42 | * DJUnreal laughs, thanks | |
| 19:42 | <DJUnreal> it will be, as long as i get the second server to behave
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| 19:47 | and as long as i can slap the moron over the head who decided that he would 'fix' stuff
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| 19:47 | and made life far more awkward
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| 19:50 | <[GuS]> alkisg: Hi, i dont know if you remember, but the last week i've ask you about rcfiles in Gentoo. The solution you gave me didnt work cause fails to create the file cause read-only
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| 19:50 | <alkisg> [GuS]: I think gentoo is still using bind-mounts, so you'd have to add that file to the bind-mounts list
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| 19:50 | Grep for bind through the ltsp sources...
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| 19:51 | <[GuS]> mmm ok...
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| 19:51 | <vagrantc> wow. gentoo is slow to adopt new technologies! :)
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| 19:51 | <[GuS]> sorry to disturb you alkisg... just that i cant never find knipwim to ask him....
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| 19:51 | vagrantc: really? :P
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| 19:51 | <alkisg> No problem, but you shouldn't trust my answers much, I've never even seen gentoo running...
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| 19:51 | <[GuS]> for me is a constant fight...
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| 19:52 | alkisg: hehe i know... sorry.
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| 19:52 | Well, to be honest.. since i work on this company, is the first time i ever used gentoo
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| 19:52 | <vagrantc> [GuS]: well, even Debian has switched away from bind mounts in the last release, and it was feeling like a really antiquated approach for the last coupel years
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| 19:52 | <[GuS]> and... i hate it... i am more debian lover...
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| 19:53 | vagrantc: indeed..
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| 19:53 | .but i think ltsp in gentoo is not to much mature enough...
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| 19:54 | <alkisg> [GuS]: you can `cat /proc/mounts` on a client to see if gentoo is using bind mounts or not...
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| 19:54 | <[GuS]> let me check
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| 19:54 | <vagrantc> alkisg: finally uploaded a new libpam-sshauth...
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| 19:55 | <alkisg> Nice! Let's hope ltsp6 is ready for the new debian release... (forgot its name..)
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| 19:55 | * vagrantc is hoping to make the push for LTSP6 | |
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| 19:55 | <vagrantc> yeah, really need LTSP6 to be in decent shape in, say about 1 year from now to make sure it's good for Debian's Jessie release.
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| 19:55 | <alkisg> I hope it's there for 14.04 as well, it'll be annoying to have to support different ltsp versions in irc :D
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| 19:56 | <[GuS]> ltsp6? :)
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| 19:56 | <vagrantc> we still see ltsp 4.2 questions, though less and less now that the hardware support is barely there.
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| 19:56 | * alkisg wants to try out samba 4 before libpam_sshauth though... | |
| 19:56 | <vagrantc> alkisg: same idea, though, no?
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| 19:57 | ideally, ltsp6 could support any libpam module to accomplish our needs.
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| 19:57 | <alkisg> That will still render LDM deprecated, yeah...
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| 19:57 | Let's hope the pam and *DM hooks will be enough to make this work
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| 19:58 | <vagrantc> the proof of concept works, but we'll have to get really clever to figure out a clean way to integrate all the hooks we want.
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| 19:59 | <alkisg> Right... e.g. I don't know of any cross DM way to apply XRANDR_MODE_0...
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| 19:59 | <vagrantc> yeah...
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| 20:00 | probably have to put a wrapper around X ... but even then
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| 20:00 | <DJUnreal> vagrantc: as i said before... if you want me to test stuff for you on debian
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| 20:00 | i'm more than happy to
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| 20:00 | either on real steel or VMs
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| 20:00 | <vagrantc> DJUnreal: well, still need to write more to test :)
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| 20:00 | <DJUnreal> HeHe
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| 20:05 | i know it's a lot to ask... but can LTSP6 have a script or similar to handle multiple login servers?
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| 20:06 | <[GuS]> well ,guys, thansk for all like always. have to go. Cya!
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| 20:06 | <vagrantc> DJUnreal: it's not inconceivable
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| 20:06 | <vagrantc> DJUnreal: the current code supports that... depending on what you mean
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| 20:07 | <DJUnreal> aye, it does, but there's no simple way for non-ubuntu OSs to 'just make it work' as far as i can tell :P
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| 20:07 | <vagrantc> well, the feature was added in order to support a Debian network...
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| 20:08 | <DJUnreal> the LDM_SERVER one?
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| 20:08 | <vagrantc> supports multiple servers...
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| 20:08 | <DJUnreal> ahh right
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| 20:08 | * vagrantc uses it regularly | |
| 20:08 | <DJUnreal> 'cause as far as i can tell, ltsp-cluster is ubuntu only in terms of packages...
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| 20:08 | hence my hacky attempt at clustering which is a tad on the awkward side :P
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| 20:09 | <vagrantc> yes, nobody's managed to put the time in to port to Debian, but in theory it should be doable.
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| 20:09 | <alkisg> With kerberos etc one would probably be able to create an ssh socket anywhere, so `ltsp-remoteapps <server> <app>` could be supported... i.e. run apps not only in multiple servers, but in multiple clients too
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| 20:10 | <DJUnreal> THAT sounds scary!
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| 20:11 | <alkisg> E.g. we have labs with 6 semi-good clients, 6 bad clients, and 1 lame server... those could be configured so that each bad client can use the CPU of one semi-good client....
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| 20:12 | <alkisg> It would be OK for 100 mbps networks too
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| 20:15 | * DJUnreal points vagrantc to his PM window quickly | |
| 20:20 | <DJUnreal> ok, so i've killed the extra mounting of /opt/ltsp
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| 20:21 | and tweaked the conf file slightly so instead of SERVER= it's now LDM_SERVER=
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| 20:21 | i'll add the root console bit quickly
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| 20:21 | <vagrantc> extra mounting?
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| 20:21 | <DJUnreal> yeah
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| 20:22 | i had my slave server mounting /opt/ltsp read-write from the master server
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| 20:22 | because i wasn't sure if it was necessary or not so figured it'd be worth doing anyway
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| 20:22 | alkisg confirmed it's not
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| 20:29 | <DJUnreal> Okay
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| 20:29 | so it's up
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| 20:29 | root shell on 8
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| 20:29 | error i'm getting is
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| 20:31 | UNKNOWN [10.0.0.2] 9571 (?) : Connection refused
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| 20:31 | would i be right in assuming that's a connection attempt on port 9571 ?
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| 20:32 | <vagrantc> sounds like you don't have ldminfod running on 10.0.0.2
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| 20:32 | <alkisg> Try `ssh user@ldm-server-ip` from the root shell
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| 20:32 | <DJUnreal> yes, i can ssh back
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| 20:33 | 10.0.0.2 is my slave login server
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| 20:33 | 10.0.0.1 is my master ltsp server
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| 20:33 | err...
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| 20:33 | that's weird
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| 20:33 | REALLY weird
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| 20:33 | after i'd established the ssh connection back
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| 20:33 | it's now /partially/ worked
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| 20:33 | i've got a gui with icons
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| 20:33 | (i think i know why it's lost the wallpaper)
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| 20:34 | <vagrantc> did it prompt you to verify the hostkey?
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| 20:34 | <DJUnreal> on the ssh connection, yes
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| 20:34 | so it's as we thought on the weekend... a keys issue
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| 20:34 | <vagrantc> so it didn't have the host key for the server.
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| 20:34 | <DJUnreal> so i need to ideally make my slave server use the same host key the master uses
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| 20:34 | <vagrantc> and this is why we're trying to invent ltsp6
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| 20:34 | <DJUnreal> and/or include the slave's host key in the image instead
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| 20:35 | <vagrantc> do the latter.
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| 20:35 | <DJUnreal> can you give me a quick walkthrough on it please? my keys are a little rusty
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| 20:37 | * vagrantc forgets if ltsp-docs documents tis | |
| 20:38 | <vagrantc> yup, it's in ltsp-docs
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| 20:38 | presuming it works...
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| 20:39 | * DJUnreal goes to look | |
| 20:39 | <DJUnreal> i must say, you've just made my life very easy
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| 20:39 | <vagrantc> hm.
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| 20:39 | --export seems like it may be broken
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| 20:40 | yeah, ltsp-update-sshkeys --export is broken, at least on wheezy :(
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| 20:41 | <DJUnreal> i got an error even trying without --export on the weekend
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| 20:42 | also... one quick suggestion...
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| 20:42 | rather than having a link to the search page on the wiki homepage... integrate the search box there? :)
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| 20:42 | <vagrantc> where?
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| 20:42 | <DJUnreal> http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/LTSPedia
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| 20:43 | it's git a little link at the top to 'search' or 'browse our categories'... but it just took me ages to see the 'search' link... i was expecting a box to search in
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| 20:43 | could just be me being stupid though
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| 20:43 | * vagrantc forgets who all is working on the website/wiki | |
| 20:46 | <vagrantc> i vaguely recall --export being broken a while back ... wonder if anyone fixed it since
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| 20:49 | oh, i guess you have to specify a hostname...
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| 20:50 | from server1: ltsp-update-sshkeys --export /etc/ltsp/ssh_known_hosts.HOSTNAME HOSTNAME
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| 20:51 | * DJUnreal grins | |
| 20:52 | <DJUnreal> ooh wait... if it's in /etc/ltsp/ssh_known_hosts.HOSTNAME...
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| 20:52 | i should be able to get the keys for my second server and dump them in a file there, right?
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| 20:52 | <vagrantc> ltsp-update-sshkeys adds all files in /etc/ltsp/ssh_known_hosts.*
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| 20:53 | <DJUnreal> oh that's piss easy then
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| 20:53 | i just nick the keys from server 2
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| 20:53 | <vagrantc> that's the idea
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| 20:53 | <DJUnreal> paste them in there
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| 20:53 | and run an update
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| 20:53 | * DJUnreal facepalms | |
| 20:53 | <vagrantc> but you have to format them in known_hosts format
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| 20:53 | <DJUnreal> aye
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| 20:53 | <vagrantc> i.e. hostname keytype KEY
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| 20:53 | <alkisg> in master server: /usr/sbin/ltsp-update-sshkeys --export /opt/ltsp/ssh/ssh_known_hosts slave-server-ip
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| 20:53 | vagrantc: shouldn't that ^ suffice?
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| 20:54 | <vagrantc> alkisg: but then they'll get overwritten when ltsp-update-sshkeys runs a second time without arguments
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| 20:54 | <alkisg> Ah, true
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| 20:54 | <vagrantc> alkisg: you want to store them in the server's /etc/ltsp/
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| 20:54 | <alkisg> I think --export ignores its parameter, though... and always stores it in that location in the chroot
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| 20:55 | --export - and then > file might be better
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| 20:56 | <vagrantc> it claims to default to /etc/ltsp/ssh_known_hosts.auto
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| 20:57 | <DJUnreal> time to test again
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| 20:57 | i've done the key as .hostname
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| 20:57 | updated the lts.conf to point at hostname, not ip
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| 20:58 | and run an update-sshkeys
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| 20:58 | <vagrantc> you'll also want to run ltsp-update-sshkeys without any arguments
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| 20:58 | <DJUnreal> i did
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| 20:58 | i didn't do an export
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| 20:58 | just ran the update
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| 20:58 | <vagrantc> got it
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| 20:58 | <DJUnreal> ahh that's a better error
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| 20:58 | presumably if i edit the /opt/ltsp/arch/etc/hosts file
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| 20:58 | that'll get handed to the client on boot
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| 20:59 | <vagrantc> yes, but if you run ltsp-update-sshkeys it will overwrite it
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| 20:59 | <DJUnreal> it'll overwrite the hosts file?
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| 20:59 | <vagrantc> er, /etc/hosts ... that may get overwritten anyways
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| 21:00 | <DJUnreal> DNS is a hassle... hosts file entries aren't :P
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| 21:00 | <vagrantc> i think /etc/hosts gets overwritten on boot
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| 21:00 | <DJUnreal> bugger... seems like you're right
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| 21:01 | that or it's trying to query dns and since i've not bothered to set the hosts up in dns...
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| 21:01 | * DJUnreal was hoping for a 'simple' option (ie hosts files) | |
| 21:02 | <vagrantc> DJUnreal: you can create /opt/ltsp/$arch/etc/hosts.ltsp and it will be appended
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| 21:02 | <DJUnreal> i assume i'll have to import the keys as a .ip rather than a .hostname
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| 21:02 | ooh sweet
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| 21:02 | that'll do me
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| 21:02 | <vagrantc> or use HOSTS_0=
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| 21:02 | in lts.conf
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| 21:02 | er, HOSTS_00 through HOSTS_99
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| 21:03 | the latter is probably cleaner
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| 21:03 | * DJUnreal grins | |
| 21:03 | <DJUnreal> now THAT'S weird
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| 21:04 | this time when it booted
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| 21:04 | the first attempt to hit the server by hostname (resolving the correct IP through a hosts.ltsp) threw the error from earlier for the IP
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| 21:04 | but it promptly tried a second time
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| 21:04 | and worked
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| 21:04 | <vagrantc> where are you seeing this error, anyways?
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| 21:05 | <DJUnreal> when a client boots
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| 21:05 | it goes through all the normal messages
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| 21:05 | then the screen blanks as it tries to fire up the GUI
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| 21:05 | and then the error pops up instead
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| 21:05 | and then the screen blanks again as it retries
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| 21:05 | <vagrantc> sounds like you've got an X configuration problem
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| 21:05 | the error is a bit of a red herring
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| 21:05 | <vagrantc> although you should be able to fix it by installing ldm-server on the ... LDM server
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| 21:07 | <DJUnreal> why is that not handed out as part of ltsp-server?
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| 21:07 | <vagrantc> ltsp-server-standalone includes it
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| 21:07 | <DJUnreal> right... but my secondary server doesn't run -standalone
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| 21:07 | because it's not handling TFTP or DHCP
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| 21:07 | or anything complex like that
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| 21:07 | <DJUnreal> it's got ltsp-server installed on it though
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| 21:08 | <vagrantc> and ldm-server wouldn't be appropriate
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| 21:08 | at least not as a dependency or recommendation ... it's totally feasible to have an LTSP server that doesn't have any applications on it
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| 21:09 | <DJUnreal> ahh, this might be the question i needed to ask but haven't asked then
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| 21:09 | local_apps
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| 21:09 | i enabled it
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| 21:09 | in the lts.conf
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| 21:09 | but it appeared to make absolutely no difference to the performance of anything
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| 21:10 | do i need to chroot and install all the apps i want to run locally in the chroot?
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| 21:11 | <vagrantc> yes, and you also need to explicitly run them
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| 21:11 | <DJUnreal> ahh... that'd be where local_menus comes in?
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| 21:11 | <vagrantc> unless you use local_apps_menu_items or something
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| 21:12 | for testing, you can run an individual app FOO using "ltsp-localapps FOO"
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| 21:12 | * alkisg notes that LOCAL_APPS is true by default, no need to set it... | |
| 21:12 | * vagrantc nods | |
| 21:12 | * DJUnreal notes that the two guys who work on this project with him are grade A twits, and insist on him setting it in the config file so they believe it's done | |
| 21:13 | <DJUnreal> i've had a weekend of being shouted at by them for things not behaving the way they *THINK* they should :P
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| 21:13 | * DJUnreal needs to cover his bases well and truly :) | |
| 21:15 | <vagrantc> explicit is often better than implicit, true
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| 21:16 | sometimes it can cause issues, as cargo-culted obsolete options spread like a virus
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| 21:17 | * alkisg waves goodnight... | |
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| 21:17 | * vagrantc waves | |
| 21:17 | <vagrantc> futilely
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| 21:18 | <DJUnreal> Laughs Out Loud
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| 21:32 | <DJUnreal> Okay
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| 21:32 | so i think that's the majority of the bugs ironed out
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| 21:33 | in the same way that etc/hosts.ltsp works
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| 21:33 | does etc/fstab.ltsp work too?
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| 21:47 | <vagrantc> doubt it
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| 21:47 | the /etc/hosts.ltsp was a quick hack that later got improved with the lts.conf options
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| 21:48 | <DJUnreal> bugger
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| 21:48 | is there a way to make the clients pick up specific nfs mounts?
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| 21:50 | and/or can you tell me how the hack works so i can implement a similar one for fstab?
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| 22:03 | <vagrantc> DJUnreal: FSTAB_0 through FSTAB_9 in lts.conf
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| 22:03 | <DJUnreal> ahh sweet
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| 22:03 | ta
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| 22:05 | <vagrantc> DJUnreal: i'd really recommend using HOSTS_* instead of /etc/hosts.ltsp
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| 22:46 | * DJUnreal nods | |
| 22:46 | <DJUnreal> sorry, was hooking my radio up
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| 22:46 | * DJUnreal shall remember that and adjust tomorrow accordingly - put those in the defaults section? | |
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