IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 23 April 2019 (all times are UTC)
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| 17:53 | <alkisg> Heh. getltscfg speed: 0.5 msec in C, 4 msec in shell/awk, 8 msec in python.
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| 17:53 | Fortunately we just call it once, so its speed doesn't matter, so we can deprecate the C version.
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| 17:53 | Sourcing the result needs 0.3 msec in shell, great.
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| 18:28 | <alkisg> vagrantc: our new getltscfg: https://termbin.com/alth
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| 18:31 | <vagrantc> alkisg: awk!
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| 18:32 | i do find various awk implementations to have incompatible feature sets
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| 18:32 | <alkisg> Hehe, for performance, I needed "tolower", sed like, tr like... all in one call
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| 18:32 | And I preferred that it would inside the initramfs too
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| 18:32 | <vagrantc> not sure what the lowest common feature set would be
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| 18:32 | <alkisg> It runs in gawk and in busybox awk; good enough for me
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| 18:33 | It's not like sed is any better...
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| 18:33 | <vagrantc> mawk would be good to test
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| 18:35 | <alkisg> mawk works too
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| 18:35 | <alkisg> So currently it supports case insensitive [sections] and LIKE=section directives, spaces around the = signs,
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| 18:36 | and if someone needs them, multiline directives or even directly embedding shell code
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| 18:36 | Like, [192.168.*.*] if [ $RAM -gt 1000 ]; then...
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| 18:37 | <vagrantc> so i'm guessing you were just looking for something minimal to shove into the initramfs?
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| 18:37 | <alkisg> All in 1/10 of the initial code, and interpreted, so that we don't need an ltsp-client binary package
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| 18:37 | That, and to avoid the binary packages
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| 18:38 | So that the ltsp-initrd.img is arch-agnostic
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| 18:38 | <alkisg> Actually we can run the awk script on the server to translate lts.conf to lts.sh (shell sourceable), and put lts.sh to the initrd...
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| 18:38 | That's a detail though
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| 18:41 | <vagrantc> alkisg: thought you were trying to kill off lts.conf, but now you're rewriting the parser :)
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| 18:41 | <alkisg> vagrantc: well, the config needs to live some place, even if later on a web service is used to send it to the client
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| 18:42 | I want to start ltsp19 without the configuration daemon and without whatever-will-replace-ldm, so that it's doable in a couple of months
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| 18:42 | <vagrantc> how's the awk implementation handle a very large lts.conf ?
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| 18:42 | <alkisg> So I'm thinking the config may live in /etc/ltsp/ltsp.conf (is ltsp.conf better than lts.conf?)
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| 18:43 | <vagrantc> yeah, it'd be nice to fix the name and location
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| 18:43 | <alkisg> Oh awk is C, so very efficiently
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| 18:44 | Like, we can parse 100 big lts.conf per second... speed doesn't matter at that level
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| 18:44 | (08:53:22 PM) alkisg: Heh. getltscfg speed: 0.5 msec in C, 4 msec in shell/awk, 8 msec in python.
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| 18:44 | <vagrantc> python is typically also in C, so i'm not sure what you mean
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| 18:45 | <alkisg> python libraries are in python
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| 18:45 | So it's very slower
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| 18:45 | If one uses only core python libraries, the ones that are written in c, then python is faster after the initial loading
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| 18:47 | <vagrantc> well, as usual, you've been thorough :)
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| 18:47 | <alkisg> parsing a 7 MB lts.conf:
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| 18:47 | getltscfg=0m0,079s
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| 18:47 | awk=0m0,461s
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| 18:48 | And that can be done server side, if we want it, so that it becomes zero time
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| 18:51 | vagrantc: btw: https://github.com/ltsp/ltsp/wiki/versioning
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| 18:51 | I noted down what I think we agreed on
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| 19:09 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i don't understand the 19.04.10 version
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| 19:10 | <alkisg> vagrantc: currently we only do distro-specific releases. Imagine the linux kernel and its lts releases. Suppose we want 19.04 to be an "lts release"
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| 19:10 | <vagrantc> alkisg: but overall looks good
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| 19:11 | <alkisg> That last counter then counts those releases
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| 19:11 | "it's the 10th release of the 19.04 series"
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| 19:11 | With only bug fixes there, no new features
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| 19:11 | <vagrantc> alkisg: how is that different from 19.04.2 example ?
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| 19:11 | <alkisg> 19.04.2 is the latest upstream release, as we're still in april
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| 19:11 | while 19.04.10 may ship 2 years later
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| 19:12 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i'd drop the distinction, personally ... and just have 19.04.N be increments
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| 19:12 | <alkisg> I figured that difference doesn't matter much, to use different numbering
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| 19:12 | Right, it's 2 different use cases using the same counter
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| 19:12 | I think I did what you just proposed
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| 19:13 | <vagrantc> i would just call them maintenance updates with an increment, and drop the line "within the same month"
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| 19:13 | if they happen to be in the same month or not doesn't matter much
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| 19:14 | i guess sometimes we've had other distros make "major" changes to support their distro in the same month.
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| 19:15 | (or day!)
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| 19:15 | been a while since that's happened, but i'd like to think the newer generation will be easier to package and we'll see more distros swimming upstream again :)
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| 19:22 | <alkisg> i mean, you release 19.04, then you discover a problem and next day you release 19.04.2
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| 19:22 | I don't imagine it will be very frequent, sure
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| 19:23 | <vagrantc> i'm fine with increments fixing important bugs
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| 19:28 | alkisg: i'm getting excited at your work ... wish i had somewhere to deploy it :)
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| 19:35 | <alkisg> Hehe
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| 19:37 | Hopefully it will also double as "boot this standalone machine in live mode", to test things without saving changes to disk.
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| 19:37 | So I'll use it to prevent my raspbian local installations from wearing out the sd card...
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| 19:42 | Oh and I'm also using netbooting frequently to troubleshoot local installation issues, hardware problems, even for cloning windows installations :D
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| 19:43 | <vagrantc> yeah, at freegeek i used LTSP (and earlier on, lessdisks) as a general purpose operating system network boot troubleshooting, diagnostic, os installation, etc...
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| 19:44 | it was the busybox of OSes for me :)
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| 19:45 | really early on, not everything had built-in PXE, and that was annoying, but we had etherboot floppies :)
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| 19:45 | which makes it interesting to see iPXE being used more in LTSP ... it's kind of come full-circle :)
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| 19:46 | <alkisg> I had some compex cards where etherboot worked, and later on gpxe/ipxe failed
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| 19:46 | I had to implement ltsp's kernel_device to work around that :D
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| 19:47 | The bad thing with syslinux is that it doesn't support variables at all
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| 19:47 | While grub and ipxe even implement a scripting language
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