IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 15 November 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:04 | <lumpy4565> To modify LDM left down corner menu, which files should be modified?
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| 02:08 | <muppis> lumpy4565, what you want to modify from it?
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| 02:09 | <lumpy4565> muppis: I would like to get the shutdown button out of this menu
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| 02:09 | so that users see it immediatly
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| 02:10 | <muppis> lumpy4565, is your actual problem that when you select 'Shutdown' from Gnome, it just drops you to LDM login?
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| 02:11 | <lumpy4565> no not really, this isn't a problem
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| 02:12 | I just think users would find easier to see the shutdown button when they logged out
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| 02:16 | <muppis> Well, I just though it would easier to fix Shutdown from Gnome than edit that button.
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| 02:17 | <Appiah> I think users should have a shutdown button on the desktop
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| 02:18 | to shutdown the server
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| 02:18 | :)
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| 02:18 | <alkisg1> lumpy4565: you'd have to modify the ldmgtkgreeter source code. But ldm is undergoing many changes now, maybe in a newer version it'll be easier to get what you want with no source modifications.
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| 02:18 | <lumpy4565> muppis, you're right in fact it would be even easier with a Gnome shutdown
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| 02:19 | <alkisg1> That's easy to do :)
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| 02:19 | <lumpy4565> alkisg1 OK
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| 02:19 | <muppis> Command this at server: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ts.sch.gr && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
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| 02:20 | <alkisg> muppis: give a warning though that our repository contains a lot of newer package versions, not just gnome-session...
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| 02:20 | (and it's usually only for lucid)
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| 02:20 | <muppis> alkisg, thanks. I didn't know that.
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| 02:21 | <alkisg> https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/ppa/
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| 02:21 | <lumpy4565> Is it suitable for Squeeze ?
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| 02:21 | <alkisg> lumpy4565: nope
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| 02:22 | lumpy4565: you'd have to manually apply that patch: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/491940
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| 02:22 | ...or just use a desktop shortcut instead of modifying gnome-session
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| 02:22 | <muppis> Gotta go rollover one Debian installation.. ;)
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| 02:22 | <alkisg> muppis: you tried it and it worked?! :D
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| 02:23 | Heh, I think Lucid's gnome-session has a lot of ubuntu-specific patches... weird that it works on debian
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| 02:24 | <muppis> alkisg, I meant replacing it with Ubuntu. :)
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| 02:24 | <alkisg> Ah. Heh :)
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| 02:25 | <lumpy4565> mmmmh... Maybe not
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| 02:25 | replacing Debian by Ubuntu for a shutdown button!
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| 02:26 | <alkisg> lumpy4565: you can easily put a shutdown button on the desktop
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| 02:26 | ...or in a gnome menu
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| 02:27 | <lumpy4565> alkisg: The button should call the code from the patch you pointed?
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| 02:27 | <alkisg> lumpy4565: it should call xprop to set the ldm logout action, and then dbus for logging out
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| 02:28 | xprop -root -f LTSP_LOGOUT_ACTION 8s -set LTSP_LOGOUT_ACTION HALT
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| 02:28 | dbus-send --session --dest=org.gnome.SessionManager --type=method_call --print-reply --reply-timeout=2000 /org/gnome/SessionManager org.gnome.SessionManager.Logout uint32:1
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| 02:29 | (or instead of dbus-send you can also use gnome-session-save --logout)
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| 02:29 | <lumpy4565> alkisg: great, thank you!
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| 02:29 | <alkisg> np
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| 02:42 | <lumpy4565> OK, it works perfectly!
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| 02:42 | and I still have a little question : what's the difference of using gnome-session-save --logout instead of dbus-send?
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| 02:43 | <gnunux> hi
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| 02:43 | <alkisg> lumpy4565: old way vs new way (dbus)
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| 02:44 | <lumpy4565> OK, so thanks for the help!
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| 03:05 | <Trixboxer> Hi alkisg
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| 03:06 | <alkisg> Hello
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| 03:06 | <Trixboxer> hmm could you please have a look at http://pastebin.com/fitLwXSD
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| 03:06 | its the dmesg output of one of the fat-client whos applications are crashing
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| 03:08 | <alkisg> I see segfaults but I don't see a reason there
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| 03:08 | <Trixboxer> neither I
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| 03:08 | its just comes and apps are closed
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| 03:09 | I think it must be something related to hardware
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| 03:09 | <Hyperbyte> Trixboxer: isn't there some error or warning message before the segfaults?
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| 03:09 | <Trixboxer> no
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| 03:10 | [ 2393.441284] wnck-applet[1639]: segfault at 1 ip 00f28c16 sp bf95cb4c error 6 in libdbus-1.so.3.4.0[f0e000+37000]
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| 03:10 | <Hyperbyte> Does it happen randomly?
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| 03:10 | <Trixboxer> hex codes only
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| 03:10 | yes
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| 03:10 | for few minutes all run smooth and suddenly
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| 03:10 | <Hyperbyte> Faulty ram, maybe?
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| 03:10 | <Trixboxer> clock goes .. some applet and other part
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| 03:10 | hmm
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| 03:11 | <alkisg> Trixboxer: always on the same client?
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| 03:11 | <Trixboxer> Other clients are running fine so it has to be something with hardware
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| 03:11 | yes
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| 03:11 | same client
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| 03:11 | <alkisg> Try running a memtest for a few minutes
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| 03:12 | <Hyperbyte> How is your LTSP experience coming along by the way Trixboxer? Starting to like it a bit more? :)
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| 03:12 | <Trixboxer> Its great
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| 03:12 | I really love it
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| 03:12 | <Hyperbyte> Heh, cool :)
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| 03:12 | <Trixboxer> I just switched to NFS
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| 03:13 | <Hyperbyte> I recall you being quite fed up with it at first
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| 03:13 | Oh, that's interesting.
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| 03:13 | <Trixboxer> I experienced all the phases in production
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| 03:13 | first thin clients
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| 03:13 | then the fat ones
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| 03:13 | <Hyperbyte> Because I was trying to switch to NFS but failed... can you tell me how you did it? :)
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| 03:13 | <Trixboxer> then chrome problem and now all fixed and running good with NFS
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| 03:13 | NFS was so simple and I messed it
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| 03:14 | you just need to have a nfs-kernel-server on server side
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| 03:14 | nfs-common in client
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| 03:14 | <Hyperbyte> Well, I have NFS working
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| 03:14 | <Trixboxer> and a lts.conf in parallel dir of pxelinux.0
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| 03:14 | <Hyperbyte> I just never figured out how to get LTSP to actually use it
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| 03:15 | <Hyperbyte> Is it some config setting?
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| 03:15 | <Trixboxer> thanks to alkisg for the syntaz
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| 03:15 | syntax*'
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| 03:15 | let me pastebin
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| 03:15 | <Hyperbyte> Cool :)
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| 03:16 | <Trixboxer> http://pastebin.com/PaY2688X
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| 03:16 | have you exported your /home over NFS ?
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| 03:18 | <Hyperbyte> NFS export/server is fine.
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| 03:18 | What do I do with NFS_HOME when my NFS server is a different machine than the terminal server?
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| 03:18 | <Trixboxer> hm
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| 03:18 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: NFS_HOME=server-ip:/home
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| 03:19 | <Trixboxer> my config is like http://pastebin.com/Hq7Txu57
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| 03:19 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: that's for fat clients, not thin clients.
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| 03:19 | <Trixboxer> dont forget the security
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| 03:19 | thanks to alkisg
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| 03:20 | alkisg: Using async in NFS improves performance.. do you think that its really necessary on a LAN environment
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| 03:22 | <alkisg> Trixboxer: I didn't have time to do any benchmarks with different NFS options.
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| 03:53 | <elias_a> Which log should I be looking at the client only shows a grey screen instead of login screen?
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| 03:53 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg: it's not for thin clients? Why not?
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| 03:53 | <elias_a> Fresh installation of 10.04.
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| 04:06 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: thin client processes work on the server, so there's no need to mount nfs locally on the thin client
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| 04:07 | <Trixboxer> yes NFS wont be needed if its thin client
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| 04:07 | <alkisg> elias_a: for starters, what does ps -ef give you?
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| 04:07 | There's also /var/log/ldm.log
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| 04:07 | <elias_a> alkisg: Thanks - found another problem. Will get back to this :)
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| 04:07 | <Trixboxer> you can also check for the /var/log/daemon.log
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| 04:10 | <elias_a> No, the problem is that the dudes have installed the system on an AMD 64 server and there's no 32-bit support for clients.
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| 04:12 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg: well, I use localapps. I'd like to use NFS for that instead of sshfs, because the terminal server has already mounted /home/ over NFS... so you get sshfs over nfs, which seems a bit redundant
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| 04:13 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: yes the idea is to use NFS *instead* of sshfs, let me see if the current code works for localapps...
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| 04:13 | <Hyperbyte> But NFS_HOME config option didn't really work
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| 04:13 | Said it couldn't mount, which is funny.. because after boot I manually mounted it without problems
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| 04:13 | But either way it doesn't matter that much. All it does is read a few config files via sshfs.
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| 04:14 | <elias_a> I've never added 32-bit support in a 64-bit system. Any hints to how to?
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| 04:15 | <Trixboxer> Did you try ltsp-build-client --arch i386 ?
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| 04:15 | <elias_a> Trixboxer: Yep - Error: chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 doesn't exist.
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| 04:16 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: by looking at the code I think it should work
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| 04:16 | <elias_a> Do I just create the dir or should it be generated automatically?
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| 04:17 | <alkisg> elias_a: do you currently have an 64bit chroot? Do you want to keep it or delete it?
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| 04:17 | <Hyperbyte> mhm.
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| 04:17 | <elias_a> alkisg: delete it.
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| 04:17 | <Trixboxer> what is the content of /opt/ltsp/ ?
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| 04:17 | <alkisg> elias_a: then just run sudo rm -rf /opt/ltsp; sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386
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| 04:17 | <elias_a> amd64 images
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| 04:17 | alkisg: Will try.
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| 04:18 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: distro/version?
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| 04:18 | <Hyperbyte> Fedora 13
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| 04:18 | 5.1.95-1.fc13.x86_64
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| 04:18 | :)
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| 04:18 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: no idea about fedora, sorry
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| 04:19 | <Trixboxer> hmm Fedora.. never tried :(
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| 04:19 | any specific reasons for fedora ?
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| 04:22 | <Hyperbyte> Never used anything else.
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| 04:22 | So, no, no specific reason... just habit. :)
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| 04:22 | It's what I'm used to.
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| 04:23 | <Trixboxer> May be you could try ubuntu 10.04 or the latest 10.10
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| 04:24 | <Hyperbyte> No thanks, I finally have LTSP working the way I want it. :-D
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| 04:24 | Not gonna change now.
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| 04:24 | But in hindsight, when I started implementing this, that would've been a nice experiment.
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| 04:44 | <elias_a> After installing 32-bit system what do i change in order to boot to i386?
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| 04:44 | Is changing /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf enough?
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| 04:44 | <Hyperbyte> Yep
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| 04:44 | <elias_a> I mean changes to that file?
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| 04:45 | Do I have to reboot some processes?
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| 04:45 | I mean restart...
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| 04:46 | <Hyperbyte> dhcpd
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| 04:47 | <elias_a> right...
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| 04:49 | Error: chroot /opt/ltsp/amd64 doesn't exist.
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| 04:50 | The funny thing is that it is not mentioned in dhcpd.conf...
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| 04:51 | http://pastebin.com/8tfVg6ZR
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| 04:53 | Where is it defined?
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| 04:54 | <muppis> Does restart of dhcpd gave that?
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| 04:55 | <Hyperbyte> elias_a, you also want to change /etc/exports and restart nfs
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| 04:55 | But that probably won't solve your current issue.
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| 04:56 | <elias_a> muppis: No, ltsp-update-image
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| 04:56 | Maybe I should try
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| 04:56 | ltsp-build-client --base /opt/ltsp --chroot i386
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| 04:56 | <Hyperbyte> --arch ?
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| 04:57 | <muppis> arch would be correct instead of chroot
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| 04:57 | <Hyperbyte> 11:17 <alkisg> elias_a: then just run sudo rm -rf /opt/ltsp; sudo
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| 04:57 | ltsp-build-client --arch i386
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| 04:57 | <elias_a> right - sorry :)
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| 04:57 | <Hyperbyte> Did you do that?
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| 04:57 | Because you don't need the --base argument. Just ltsp-build-client --arch i386
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| 04:58 | Then you edit dhcpd.conf and nfs exports, and you should be done.
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| 04:58 | (after restarting dhcpd, nfs)
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| 04:59 | <muppis> elias_a, and you don't even need --arch if look at this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients#Creating%20ltsp-build-client.conf
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| 05:00 | <elias_a> muppis: Thanks!
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| 05:06 | I did what alkisg suggested - now I am probably stuck to the nfs exports. What should I do about that?
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| 05:06 | <muppis> elias_a, about home dirs?
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| 05:06 | <elias_a> I have successfully built tie i386 structure.
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| 05:06 | the i386....
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| 05:08 | <Hyperbyte> What's in /etc/exports ?
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| 05:08 | If there's anything with amd64, change it to i386
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| 05:08 | <elias_a> OK.
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| 05:08 | Let's see.
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| 05:09 | <Hyperbyte> (you also have to restart nfsd)
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| 05:09 | I think, anyways.
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| 05:10 | Or exportfs -ra should also work
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| 05:11 | <Trixboxer> Hyperbyte: Why there is any need of i386 in /etc/exports ?
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| 05:11 | <elias_a> Hyperbyte: Umm.... there is not a file /etc/exports
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| 05:11 | <Trixboxer> I dint get that
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| 05:11 | <alkisg> elias_a: are you trying fat clients? Or just making a new chroot for thin clients?
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| 05:11 | <Trixboxer> elias_a: and do you want NFS ? then only worry about the /etc/exports
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| 05:11 | <elias_a> alkisg: New chroot for thins instead of the 64 bit chroot that was created during installation.
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| 05:11 | <alkisg> elias_a: then you don't need *anything* NFS related
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| 05:12 | <elias_a> alkisg: Began to think so....
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| 05:12 | <Trixboxer> elias_a: what's the client config ?
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| 05:12 | <alkisg> Do you have any problems now?
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| 05:13 | <Hyperbyte> Wait, you don't need anything NFS related? Doesn't LTSP use NFS to mount it's operating system?
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| 05:13 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: not in ubuntu
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| 05:14 | It uses nbd by default
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| 05:14 | (for speed)
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| 05:14 | <Hyperbyte> Oh!
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| 05:14 | Well my bad. I didn't know that.
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| 05:14 | Fedora uses NFS to mount the root.
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| 05:14 | <elias_a> The client nags that the nbd server does not reply.
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| 05:14 | seen from the server: ubuntu@eduvomltsp1:/etc$ sudo /etc/init.d/nbd-server start
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| 05:14 | ** (process:3716): WARNING **: Could not parse config file: Could not open config file /etc/nbd-server/config.
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| 05:15 | <ltsplogbot> I don't know who from is.
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| 05:15 | <alkisg> NBD is faster than NFS, and it can also be compressed about 3 times smaller, resulting in dramatically increased network disk speed
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| 05:15 | <elias_a> ** Message: Nothing to do! Bye!
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| 05:15 | <alkisg> elias_a: don't restart nbd-server that way
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| 05:15 | it's probably a port or path problem
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| 05:15 | What is the output of the following commands?
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| 05:15 | grep nbd /etc/inetd.conf
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| 05:15 | grep nbd /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 05:16 | grep ltsp /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
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| 05:16 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg: the speed increase of using nbd would only be experienced during startup, correct?
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| 05:16 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: yes, and for any localapps or fat clients using the network disk
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| 05:16 | Hyperbyte: e.g. for openoffice I see 2-3 secs instead of 15 secs
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| 05:17 | (on fat clients)
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| 05:17 | <Hyperbyte> That's a huge improvement.
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| 05:17 | <alkisg> Yup, and it also allows for 3 times larger disk caches, resulting in more improvement
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| 05:17 | <Hyperbyte> I've decided to run everything on the server though... I might come back from that later, but so far it seems to do ok.
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| 05:17 | <alkisg> (only if compression is on)
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| 05:18 | <Hyperbyte> Or I might buy a more kickass server later, could go either way. :-D
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| 05:18 | <elias_a> alkisg: inetd.conf: http://pastebin.com/EqNkvXHN
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| 05:18 | ubuntu@eduvomltsp1:/etc$ grep nbd /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 05:18 | append ro initrd=initrd.img quiet splash nbdport=2000
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| 05:19 | <alkisg> elias_a: change amd64 with i386 in inetd.conf, and restart inet: sudo invoke-rc.d openbsd-inet restart
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| 05:20 | <elias_a> And the last one:
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| 05:20 | http://pastebin.com/ZPfsU7CV
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| 05:20 | alkisg: Thank you!
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| 05:21 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: imho nfs is just fine for thin clients, 10-30 secs difference in boot time isn't worth the nbd trouble
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| 05:21 | For localapps/fat clients it does make a big difference though
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| 05:21 | <Hyperbyte> My thoughts. :-)
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| 05:23 | <elias_a> invoke-rc.d: unknown initscript, /etc/init.d/openbsd-inet not found.
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| 05:25 | This is not my day really...
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| 05:26 | I will request that they boot it locally where the server is.
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| 05:26 | <alkisg> elias_a: inetd, with a d in the end
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| 05:26 | <elias_a> alkisg: Wow - I am getting blind... ;-)
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| 05:27 | <alkisg> elias_a: nope, I wrote it wrong :D
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| 05:27 | Using autocomplete there helps e.g. openb<tab>
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| 05:27 | <elias_a> alkisg: I am getting dumb as well :)
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| 05:35 | <muppis> Problem in playing DVD in thin. VLC and libdvdcss2 installed as local-app, what else I need?
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| 05:42 | VLC could not open MRL-location "dvd:///dev/dvd"
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| 08:18 | <robehend1> here's a random question. Is it possible to make it so when a machine pxe boots, I can pick which server it goes off of? Idea comes from me having LTSP up and going, but having FOG pxe boot for imaging my windows machines.
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| 08:19 | currently I just go into the DHCP and change the settings when I need to image, but this of course kills thin client booting until it's finished. I know I can do it with mac filtering, but I'm hoping for something more dynamic
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| 08:21 | <Trixboxer> robehend1: what is " but having FOG pxe boot for imaging my windows machines." ?
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| 08:21 | I think that image selection rely on DHCP server
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| 08:21 | <robehend1> Trixboxer: Fog is a PXE based imaging software. Boots into a small linux over PXE, and then deploys an image over NFS. Very slick if you still need imaging for Windows and such
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| 08:22 | Trixboxer: thats what I thought to. Darn. Was hoping I could have a "press 1 for LTSP, press 2 for FOG" setup.
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| 08:22 | <Trixboxer> so you have kept windows on same LTSP server or a different one ?
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| 08:23 | <robehend1> Trixboxer: I still have my staff on Windows. I use a Windows DHCP for the thin clients in that VLAN as well, while my main deployment uses the standard Linux DHCP.
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| 08:23 | Trixboxer: So basically, trying to make it so the client boots to the Windows DHCP, and then gets a choice of which PXE server it grabs
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| 08:24 | <Trixboxer> not sure.. LTSP cluster might help
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| 08:24 | did you read how that works ?
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| 08:24 | <robehend1> Trixboxer: Yep, wont work here though, as I'm tied to the Windows DHCP due to my lovely windows clients.
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| 08:25 | <Trixboxer> hmm.. Never done that so cant say much
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| 08:28 | <robehend1> Thanks anyways! I'm not even sure if its possible
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| 08:28 | another random question: setting up an LTSP box for my local daycare. Anyone have any games they recommend for 4-6 year olds? Box isnt going to have internet access, so has to be all local
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| 08:30 | Already going to put TuxPaint and Gcompris on, was wondering if I missed anything though?
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| 08:35 | <crazed> is it possible to enable NX logins to an ltsp server?
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| 08:35 | or something similar
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| 08:35 | i want to achieve remote access for people without thin clients
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| 08:35 | <robehend1> crazed: Yes, Just setup Freenx or Neatx on the server, and your golden
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| 08:36 | <crazed> that's it? damn
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| 08:36 | awesome.
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| 08:36 | <robehend1> crazed: Oh, and make sure you have the ports setup, etc etc
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| 08:36 | crazed: I use it for my students to have remote access as well. One thing to make sure of though. make sure your users cant shutdown the server in their freenx session. unlike LTSP, shutdown will kill the server.
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| 08:40 | <Trixboxer> robehend1: I was reading about Fog, it is not same as LTSP right ? I think its cloning the HDD and then sending it back to the client over network
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| 08:40 | correct ?
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| 08:40 | <robehend1> correct
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| 08:41 | I'm trying to use both at the same time, which is the problem. I want to be able to boot up a machine, and select either LTSP or Fog
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| 08:41 | since I have my staff still clinging to windows xp like a life line, I need the imaging solution.
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| 08:44 | <Trixboxer> robehend1: LTSP sends same environment to all user with their private profile but Fog is sending like his full HDD to him on network
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| 08:44 | <crazed> robehend1: good call, how did you disable shutdown?
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| 08:44 | <Trixboxer> brb
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| 08:44 | <robehend1> Trixboxer: Fog is closer to Symantic Ghost. it doesnt let you boot into anything, it just loads a small linux enviro, and basically rsyncs the hard drive over via nfs. you then boot to the hard drive
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| 08:45 | crazed: I setup a profile for my users in Sabayon, removed the shut down buttons from Gnome, and removed access to the terminal.
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| 08:46 | crazed: Not the best solution, I'm sure, but it's worked so far.
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| 08:59 | <alkisg> robehend1: you mean something like this? http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/tosteki/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2828.0;attach=1672;image
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| 09:00 | <crazed> that is cool
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| 09:06 | <robehend1> alkisg: Something like that, yes, but instead of 2 LTSP, having 1 LTSP, and 1 FOG. 2 different servers
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| 09:11 | <robehend1> alkisg: If i'm not mistaken, that's just a Grub2 menu, isnt it?
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| 09:15 | <alkisg> robehend1: no, that's a pxe menu
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| 09:15 | You can serve that to your ltsp/fog clients, and have anything you want in there
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| 09:16 | E.g. 1) LTSP, 2) FOG on a different server, 3) Boot locally, 4) Memtest etc etc
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| 09:16 | No limit
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| 09:18 | <robehend1> alkisg: ooo, nice. Do you have any links to how I can edit that?
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| 09:19 | <alkisg> robehend1: http://syslinux.zytor.com/wiki/index.php/PXELINUX
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| 09:19 | <robehend1> alkisg: Thanks alkisg. This'll make things much, much easier for me.
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| 09:19 | <alkisg> (or if you want, use google translate on my page: http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/tosteki/index.php?topic=2828.0)
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| 09:20 | bbl
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| 09:31 | <Trixboxer> back
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| 09:36 | alkisg: The screenshot is really awesome :)
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| 10:13 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 10:14 | <crazed> what's the name of the thin client manager
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| 10:14 | i can't seem to find the command on my box
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| 10:14 | though it might not be installed
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| 10:15 | <Gadi> !s
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| 10:15 | <ltspbot> Gadi: "s" :: Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 10:15 | <crazed> lol
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| 10:16 | <sbalneav> Anyone know of any problems with jetpipe and usb serial adapters? I'm trying to get a USB serial adapter connected printer going, and jetpipe keeps crashing.
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| 10:16 | Can you su within a ltsp-localapps xterm?
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| 10:17 | <crazed> !SCREEN_02
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| 10:17 | <sbalneav> I suspect that the python program's crapping out when it's trying to set the serial parameters.
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| 10:17 | <ltspbot> crazed: "SCREEN_02" :: To get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client, put these in your lts.conf: (default <name>) -- Returns the default value of the configuration variable <name>. {enter}SCREEN_02=shell{enter}SCREEN_07=ldm{enter}. Then reboot the client, and press Alt+Ctrl+F2 to get to the root shell.
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| 10:17 | <crazed> sbalneav: ^
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| 10:17 | <sbalneav> yeah, the old way.
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| 10:17 | that was what I thought.
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| 10:19 | bbiab
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| 10:19 | <Gadi> sbalneav: you should be able to su
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| 10:19 | sbalneav: and I have doen USB-serial adapters with jetpipe
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| 10:20 | I think I need to specif the device as /dev/ttyUSB0
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| 10:20 | or some such
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| 10:22 | * vagrantc waves to sbalneav | |
| 10:24 | <sbalneav> Back
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| 10:24 | Hey Gadi, vagrantc
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| 10:24 | yeah, it craps out when it tries to set line discipline.
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| 10:24 | <vagrantc> ltspbot: learn SCREEN_02 for Debian use SCREEN_07=ldm, SCREEN_08=shell and SCREEN_DEFAULT=07
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| 10:24 | <ltspbot> vagrantc: (learn [<channel>] <key> as <value>) -- Associates <key> with <value>. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. The word 'as' is necessary to separate the key from the value. It can be changed to another word via the learnSeparator registry value.
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| 10:25 | <vagrantc> ltspbot: learn SCREEN_02 as for Debian use SCREEN_07=ldm, SCREEN_08=shell and SCREEN_DEFAULT=07
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| 10:25 | <ltspbot> vagrantc: The operation succeeded.
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| 10:25 | <Trixboxer> good night guys
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| 10:25 | <vagrantc> !SCREEN_02
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| 10:25 | <ltspbot> vagrantc: "SCREEN_02" :: (#1) To get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client, put these in your lts.conf: (default <name>) -- Returns the default value of the configuration variable <name>. {enter}SCREEN_02=shell{enter}SCREEN_07=ldm{enter}. Then reboot the client, and press Alt+Ctrl+F2 to get to the root shell., or (#2) for Debian use SCREEN_07=ldm, SCREEN_08=shell and SCREEN_DEFAULT=07
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| 10:25 | <vagrantc> of course, the name is kind of silly
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| 10:30 | <sbalneav> Hmmm, I need to disable the fork into the background, so I can see the error message that it spits out.
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| 10:31 | we ought to have a --foreground option, for this sort of thing.
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| 10:34 | <vagrantc> Gadi: pushed a change that should allow setting localtime for the hardware clock ...
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| 10:43 | <Gadi> vagrantc: actually, do you think we should have an option to not call hwclock at all?
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| 10:43 | * Gadi wonders how the distros handle this in dual-boot cases | |
| 10:46 | <sbalneav> Hmmm, I'm also wondering if we should add a dependency on the python-daemon package. That way, we could eliminate all the double-fork code with just a "import daemon" with daemon.DaemonContext(): do_main_program()
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| 10:47 | <vagrantc> Gadi: maybe
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| 10:48 | sbalneav: sounds like a good idea
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| 10:48 | presuming, of course, it works :)
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| 10:48 | <sbalneav> ok, I'll work on that for a bit, see if I can clean up the code. I'll propose a patch in -devel
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| 10:49 | <vagrantc> apparently, python-daemon isn't available in stock lenny, but it is available in backports, so that should be fine.
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| 10:49 | sebd has quit IRC | |
| 10:49 | <vagrantc> that'd be my only consideration
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| 10:49 | dobber has quit IRC | |
| 10:51 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: probably gives a handful of features for (almost) free, too, i'm guessing...
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| 10:52 | daemonly stuffs
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| 10:52 | <sbalneav> Well, I'm suspecting it probably does a more "standard" daemonize,
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| 10:52 | <vagrantc> oh
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| 10:52 | <sbalneav> even though we're following St. Stevens anyway :)
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| 10:53 | * vagrantc isn't up on the old religion | |
| 10:53 | <vagrantc> or is it the new religion?
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| 10:53 | * vagrantc isn't up | |
| 10:53 | <sbalneav> You don't have a copy of "Network Programming" by Stevens?!
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| 10:53 | http://www.kohala.com/start/unpv12e.html
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| 10:53 | <vagrantc> not autographed, at which point, it's hardly even a relic
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| 10:53 | <sbalneav> Dude.
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| 10:54 | <Gadi> heh. books.
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| 10:54 | <ogra_ac> st stevens? the patron of programming beerdrinkers ?
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| 10:54 | * vagrantc confesses to have 0 computer-related books | |
| 10:55 | <vagrantc> unless you count sci-fi short story collections, which have a thin veneer of computerness occasionally
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| 10:55 | <sbalneav> His TCP illustrated series is *THE* canonical documentation of the TCP/IP protocol.
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| 10:55 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: does it document all the moves to the happy packet dance?
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| 10:55 | * vagrantc wants TCP illustrated, illuminated edition | |
| 10:57 | <vagrantc> "this copy was painstakingly hand-copied by monks with gold-laced ink"
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| 10:57 | for a limited time...
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| 10:59 | <Gadi> I prefer Al Gore's illustrated TCP comic book
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| 11:00 | he's by far the bigger authority
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| 11:03 | <vagrantc> *ka-pow!*
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| 11:04 | take that, network neutrality!
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| 11:36 | <alkisg> Hi all
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| 11:36 | vagrantc: maybe the value for UTC= in /etc/default/rcS should be used?
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| 11:37 | <vagrantc> alkisg: maybe
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| 11:38 | alkisg: i just made it a little more configurable than it was
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| 11:38 | alkisg: probably isn't distro-agnostic, though
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| 11:38 | is present on debian.
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| 11:38 | <alkisg> vagrantc: sure it's better now, but I wonder if it should source /etc/default/rcS and check UTC and not offer any other configuration option at all
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| 11:39 | Ah, rcS could not be distro-agnostic? Well, they'd need to put their own code then? I'm sure they have something similar...
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| 11:40 | <vagrantc> alkisg: also, you might have some machines that are localtime, and others that aren't ...
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| 11:40 | alkisg: i.e. one machine is dual-boot but none of the others are...
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| 11:40 | <alkisg> True
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| 11:40 | <vagrantc> in that case, i'd favor an lts.conf option...
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| 11:41 | <alkisg> But if I was an admin there, I'd use the same setting in all clients
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| 11:41 | <vagrantc> i hear you
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| 11:41 | <Gadi> alkisg: have you had an issue in any of your dual-boot LTSP/Windows local, where the clock gets meesed up on the Windows side?
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| 11:41 | <vagrantc> i'm not an admin anywhere where there are machines that get confused with the hardware clock set to UTC :)
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| 11:42 | <alkisg> Gadi: I've seen that, and the solution was to change that UTC=yes/no line in rcS
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| 11:42 | <Gadi> ah
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| 11:42 | <sbalneav> OK, bbiab, I've got a jetpipe with a debug mode, that uses the python-daemon package, I'm just going to reboot here, and find out where it's crapping out
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| 11:50 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i've definitely found some USB serial adapters much more reliable than others.
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| 11:51 | the best kind have das blinkenlights
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| 12:10 | <highvoltage> salut a tous
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| 12:12 | <alkisg> Can anyone suggest a cheap + small + low specs thin client? No audio or even vga ports needed...
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| 12:16 | <robehend1> alkisg: No vga?
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| 12:16 | <highvoltage> if you don't mind going arm-based then there are some nice small machines that aren't expensive.
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| 12:17 | <alkisg> highvoltage: sure, anything that can run the linux kernel will do
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| 12:17 | robehend1: yes, they'll only be accessed through ethernet
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| 12:17 | <robehend1> alkisg: Ah...makes sense now.
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| 12:17 | <alkisg> (not as thin clients, as appliances)
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| 12:17 | <robehend1> alkisg: and here I thought you were just doing more of your wizardry with LTSP
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| 12:19 | <alkisg> It *is* possible that they'll end up booting an OS with LTSP over http... :D
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| 12:19 | <robehend1> alkisg: I knew it couldnt be as cut and dry as a headless appliance ;)
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| 12:19 | <highvoltage> alkisg: stgraber has one of these: http://www.genesi-usa.com/products/efika
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| 12:20 | alkisg: it's a nice quiet and cool little machine
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| 12:20 | <alkisg> highvoltage: nice, links?
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| 12:20 | <highvoltage> alkisg: http://www.genesi-usa.com/products/efika
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| 12:20 | <robehend1> highvoltage: Wow, those arent badly priced either.
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| 12:20 | * vagrantc has an efikamx too | |
| 12:21 | <highvoltage> robehend1: seems like arm-based stuff is quite competitive price-wise indeed!
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| 12:21 | <vagrantc> they use USB ethernet and don't support network boot, though :(
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| 12:21 | <robehend1> highvoltage: I'm looking at replacing some of my old workstations-turned-thin clients, so those might fit the bill...they handle Localapps well, you know?
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| 12:22 | <alkisg> Hmmm wifi, ssd, card reader... they rise the price but I don't need those :(
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| 12:22 | <vagrantc> robehend1: pretty experimental so far ... require a custom kernel.
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| 12:22 | <highvoltage> robehend1: they should do localapps, but I think their driver support is very bad atm, so you wouldn't be able to run something like googleearth on them
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| 12:22 | <robehend1> robehend1: Darn, there goes that idea.
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| 12:22 | <highvoltage> alkisg: ogra_ac will probably know of some other cheaper (and simpler) machines, but you might have to build your own casings then :)
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| 12:23 | * vagrantc just happened to be writing a summary of experiments with the efikamx and the armhf architecture | |
| 12:23 | <highvoltage> robehend1: aparently it's coming, though. so they should soon be good general-purpose machines
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| 12:23 | <robehend1> highvoltage: works for me. i'm just gonna have kids in Firefox, mostly
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| 12:24 | <highvoltage> isn't that illegal!?
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| 12:24 | </bad joke>
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| 12:24 | <vagrantc> the extension management is brutal
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| 12:24 | <robehend1> firefox extensions, or standard extensions
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| 12:24 | <vagrantc> better to keep them in virtual machines.
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| 12:24 | <alkisg> Thank you highvoltage, ogra_ac if you got any tips I'm all ears (just need a cpu, 128 ram, ethernet and a little local storage for the linux kernel)
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| 12:24 | <robehend1> wizardry!
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| 12:25 | <vagrantc> alkisg: how powerful
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| 12:25 | <alkisg> vagrantc: not at all, it'll just forward an mpeg stream through openssl without reenconding it
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| 12:25 | So I'm guessing the equivelant of a 400 mhz celeron
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| 12:26 | Of course if it's better than that, we won't complain :D
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| 12:27 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i've got one of the disklessworkstations.com 1200 series (actually an earlier variant) that would seem to meet most of that ...
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| 12:27 | alkisg: though those run around US$290
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| 12:27 | <robehend1> vagrantc: at that price, your better off buying an EEEpc or something
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| 12:27 | <vagrantc> looks like the 1600 is a little cheaper with a lot more...
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| 12:28 | <vagrantc> what do eeepc's run these days?
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| 12:28 | <alkisg> Ouch. The cheapest I've seen so far are those (2 packs for 140€): http://shop.artecgroup.com/products/thincan-dbe61a-eth-2-pack
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| 12:28 | <Blinn1> Sound should work on clients even if the server doesn't have a sound card, right?
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| 12:28 | <robehend1> Blinn1: Yep
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| 12:28 | <alkisg> The beagleboard is also very nice and powerfull, at 149$
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| 12:28 | <robehend1> beagleboards are handy. we've got one we use in my robotics class, insted of arduinos
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| 12:29 | <Blinn1> robehend1: Thank you.
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| 12:29 | <vagrantc> alkisg: probably hard to beat that ... although the thincans may have some issues with network booting (not sure if they've been fixed)
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| 12:30 | <robehend1> vagrantc: If you can find one without an OS, 200 ish USD
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| 12:30 | <ogra_ac> alkisg, sorry, i didnt follow, what do you look for ?
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| 12:30 | alkisg, oh, arm hardware
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| 12:30 | <alkisg> ogra_ac: something cheap, *not* powerful, to use for forwarding mpeg streams from ip -cameras
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| 12:30 | <ogra_ac> take the pandaboard
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| 12:31 | might be a bit overpowered compared to a beagle XM
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| 12:31 | | |
| 12:31 | see pandaboard.org
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| 12:31 | <Blinn1> Is there an up-to-date-ish sound troubleshooting faq? I'm on Ubuntu Hardy and one of my server's clients have no sound.
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| 12:31 | <alkisg> ogra_ac: can we easily find cases for those?
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| 12:32 | <ogra_ac> http://elinux.org/Panda_Bamboo
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| 12:32 | its in the works
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| 12:32 | but you can also just fit it into a breadbox ;)
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| 12:32 | its about the size of a CDrom
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| 12:32 | if you need super small, look at gumstix
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| 12:33 | http://www.gumstix.com/
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| 12:33 | <alkisg> Hmm we might need some hundends of those, so manual casing isn't an option...
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| 12:34 | gumstix look interesting... reading...
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| 12:34 | <ogra_ac> not sure they offer any casing
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| 12:34 | <robehend1> i like the look of those gumstrix as well..
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| 12:34 | <ogra_ac> and its more expensive than beagle or panda
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| 12:34 | <alkisg> Ah :(
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| 12:35 | Does beagle have casings? Or it's in the works like panda?
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| 12:35 | <ogra_ac> if you really needs them with case, go for beagle XM
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| 12:35 | http://specialcomp.com/beagleboard/
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| 12:36 | they only offer acrylic transparent cases though
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| 12:36 | <alkisg> Cool, thank you
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| 12:37 | <ogra_ac> | |
| 12:37 | 512MB/1GHz, needs micro SD card for OS
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| 12:38 | <Gadi> alkisg: how many units do you need?
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| 12:38 | <alkisg> Gadi: initially just a couple for testing, and later on maybe more than 100
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| 12:41 | <Blinn1> None of my clients have volume sliders. I do have /usr/bin/pulseaudio running on the server for each client.
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| 12:41 | <Gadi> Blinn1: pulseaudio runs on the client, not the server
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| 12:42 | <Blinn1> No pul* processes on the client. Wonder how I manage that then.
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| 12:43 | <highvoltage> ogra_ac: lol, I love how they say "color: black" and then have a picture of a white box beneath it :)
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| 12:44 | <Blinn1> BRB
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| 12:48 | <Blinn1> No luck. I remember there used to be a step-by-step faq for sound problems - Does anyone have a link for this or am I remembering incorrectly?
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| 12:48 | <ogra_ac> highvoltage, heh
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| 12:57 | <sbalneav> \o/
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| 12:58 | <robehend1> i had the luck of introducing my kindergarten classrooms to Childsplay today. I now have a request to remove their macs, and put LTSP in on all machines
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| 12:58 | <vagrantc> wow
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| 12:58 | <sbalneav> Well, after I switched to the daemon method, for whatever reason, that fixed my jetpipe exiting problem
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| 12:58 | <vagrantc> robehend1: get em young :)
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| 12:58 | <sbalneav> robehend1: congrats.
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| 12:59 | <robehend1> I'm always happy when I can get rid of yet another Mac..whatever possessed this building to have only that is beyond me.
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| 12:59 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: I'll post a patch to -devel, we can hash around if we want to use it.
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| 13:01 | <robehend1> does LTSP have any support for touch-screens baked in, or am I looking at a custom kernel
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| 13:01 | <johnny> that's up the kernel already included
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| 13:02 | check that first..
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| 13:02 | otherwise you just need to configure the touch screen
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| 13:02 | it should already ahve some drivers for various elotouch and any number of already popular touchscreens
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| 13:02 | <robehend1> hmmm..I'll have to check.
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| 13:02 | <johnny> the configuration is done via the lts.conf files, or via an xorg.conf override
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| 13:03 | <robehend1> makes sense. As long as I can get it so they can use my POS, i'm happy
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| 13:05 | <johnny> probabl
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| 13:05 | which one is that? that runs on linux? something open?
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| 13:05 | <robehend1> PHP Point of Sale
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| 13:05 | works nicely for the kids school store and all.
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| 13:06 | I'm just in the process of coding a new front-end to it, more Ipod-touch-esque, so they can just tap with their fingers.
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| 13:08 | <sbalneav> OK, I've sent a mail to ltsp-developer.
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| 13:11 | <vagrantc> alkisg: do you just have to install udhcpc to get the udhcpc hooks to kick in?
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| 13:11 | <alkisg> vagrantc: afaik yes
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| 13:11 | * alkisg never actually used udhcpc yet | |
| 13:12 | <vagrantc> alkisg: didn't you write the code for it?
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| 13:12 | <alkisg> vagrantc: no, stgraber wrote the initial code for it and then i rewrote it because I was interested in getting ipappend 3 to work :D
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| 13:13 | <vagrantc> ah!
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| 13:13 | right
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| 13:13 | i keep forgetting that
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| 13:13 | <alkisg> (actually I had just sent that in a mail so that it gets discussed, it wasn't intented to go upstream... :D)
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| 13:14 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 13:14 | <robehend1> wizardry...
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| 13:16 | <Blinn1> Does ltspfsd need to be installed on the server?
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| 13:17 | <ogra_ac> no
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| 13:17 | only if you use fat cliants
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| 13:17 | <Blinn1> Thank you
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| 13:18 | I'm looking at my packages and I can't find any difference between the servers that work and the server that doesn't.
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| 13:20 | <vagrantc> the other way around, you need to install ltspfs into the fat client chroot if you use fat clients
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| 13:20 | or am i just confused...
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| 13:20 | <Blinn1> Nah, all my clients are skinny.
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| 13:20 | <vagrantc> defaults should work, then
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| 13:21 | <Blinn1> Yeh. I'll remove / recrease the image and see if that gets me anywhere.
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| 13:21 | Thanks vagrantc
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| 13:22 | <Blinn1> Why would pulseaudio be running on the server though? And run as the thin client user's uid?
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| 13:23 | <johnny> because that's how sound gets forwarded back to the client sound hardware
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| 13:24 | <Blinn1> But those processes don't exist on my other server with 20 users -- just on this satellite office where the sound is busted.
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| 13:25 | Well, let me try this new client chroot and see if poof things magically work.
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| 13:27 | <Blinn1> Suddenly, magically, sound.
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| 13:27 | Thanks all. Might've been due to a busted script in /etc/X11/XSession.d
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| 13:29 | <vagrantc> hrm... udhcpc seems to be in an endless loop
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| 13:29 | of course, the first time i try it in ages, it's on an experimental architecture... so no idea if it's the real problem.
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| 13:33 | <robehend1> has anyone done some pretty large deployments, 100+?
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| 13:34 | <alkisg> vagrantc: which udhcpc version? I think Lenny has an ancient one (like Lucid)
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| 13:35 | <vagrantc> alkisg: 1:1.17.1-6
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| 13:36 | <alkisg> vagrantc: and if you run it from a command line in the busybox, it doesn't get an ip?
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| 13:36 | (but even so it should panic after 10 tries)
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| 13:37 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i'm running on the armhf architecture, so it may well be other issues
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| 13:37 | <alkisg> k
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| 13:37 | <vagrantc> ipconfig segfaults, for example...
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| 13:38 | and reboot
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| 13:39 | and apparently nfsmount...
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| 13:39 | alkisg: it's not udhcpc at all..
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| 13:40 | apparently udhcp worked fine
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| 13:45 | <vagrantc> oh weird... udhcpc is causing problems now
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| 14:16 | <robehend1> so has anyone done a large deployment, like 100+ clients?
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| 14:19 | <johnny> lots of people do.. there's even deployments of > 10000
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| 14:21 | <robehend1> Ah. Any idea how they get around the storage bottleneck?
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| 14:21 | I get pretty high IO access with 80+ clients
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| 14:21 | <vmlintu> robehend1: what kind of applications your users are using?
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| 14:22 | <robehend1> vmlintu: varies by day. gimp is used alot, as well as the KDE for Education suite. I have firefox and flash running as localapps. Oh, and they use Openoffice, but thats also a local app
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| 14:22 | <vagrantc> seems like the static ip address configuration in the udhcp script isn't working
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| 14:24 | <vmlintu> robehend1: do you know which applications are hitting the disks?
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| 14:24 | <robehend1> vmlintu: pretty sure its Gimp, mostly. But it's odd, it's happened when that class isnt happening as well. I havent seen anything that just screams "it's my fault"
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| 14:24 | <vmlintu> robehend1: we were able to reduce the IO load by a lot by changing firefox configuration
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| 14:25 | <robehend1> vmlintu: even if Firefox is running as a local app?
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| 14:25 | <vmlintu> yep
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| 14:25 | <robehend1> hmm, will have to look into that
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| 14:26 | <vmlintu> starting from firefox 3.x it uses sqlite to store data and it keeps writing it a lot
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| 14:26 | <robehend1> ah, that'd explain it. Now if only I could get our student management system to work in Chrome or Iceweasel, I'd be golden
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| 14:27 | <evil_root> firefox 3 writes alot is an understatement
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| 14:27 | <robehend1> hopefully 4 helps out a bit. havent taken a look at the beta yet
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| 14:27 | <vmlintu> if I understood correctly, by default it syncs the database to disk after every change, so it kills whatever system you give it
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| 15:20 | <vagrantc> hmmm... two issues with the udhcp hooks ...
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| 15:22 | for static ip configuration and BOOTIF configuration, it depends on the variables being set in the environment, but newer versions of initramfs-tools don't do this... requires processing /proc/cmdline manually
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| 15:24 | also, udhcpc seems to hang indefinitely... making many DHCP requests, but the dhcp server keeps NACKing the requests ...
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| 15:24 | the second could just be bugs with the unusual architecture i'm working with...
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| 15:24 | but the former i think is a general problem
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| 19:39 | <sbalneav> Evening all
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| 19:44 | jammcq has joined #ltsp | |
| 19:44 | <jammcq> hello friends
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| 20:00 | scottmaccal has joined #ltsp | |
| 20:04 | cliebow has joined #ltsp | |
| 20:05 | <cliebow> jammcq: i m holed u in some goddam hotel room in Boston..yaking Apple training...yeccch
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| 20:05 | <jammcq> oh?
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| 20:05 | cliebow: downtown boston?
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| 20:06 | <cliebow> yeah,,the guy we were gonna send got sick..no way south..dorchester or summat
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| 20:06 | half an hour slog up 93
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| 20:07 | taking the t tomorrow..tired f feeding the parkingmeter
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| 20:08 | school picked the cheapest room they could find..
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| 20:08 | within reason
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| 20:16 | <chupacabra> poor cliebow
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| 20:23 | <scottmaccal> cliebow: hope your room has heat. My didn't at Seawater!
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| 20:23 | <cliebow> thanks..
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| 20:27 | <jammcq> chupacabra: HEY !!!
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| 20:28 | <chupacabra> yo
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| 20:28 | <jammcq> how's it goin?
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| 20:28 | <chupacabra> good. having fun
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| 20:31 | lots of drupal
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| 20:32 | <cliebow> scottmaccal: you been in into apple gsx at all?
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| 20:33 | there are more goldarn perturbations of macintosh stuff than you can imagine
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| 20:33 | cant tell squat by the looks
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