IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 20 March 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 08:24 | <wim_> we are using ltsp-server-standalone (v5.3.4-1) with FAT Clients. we are using a log of remote apps. After the last debian/wheezy update we get an error like 'connect /tmp/.X11-unix/X7: No such file or directory - Can't open display'. As far as I know this file should be created automatically. Did something changed since the last update??
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| 11:45 | <epoptes_user1> Hello
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| 11:47 | <elias_a> Hello
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| 11:59 | <alkisg1> Hello
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| 12:24 | <vikrant> HEllo all, When I log out from my Ubuntu session, my screen goes blank and could not get my login screen back...can anyone please help
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| 12:25 | <alkisg> Is that on a thin client using the LDM display manager?
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| 12:32 | <vikrant> no we r using GDM and consolekit
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| 12:33 | <alkisg> Then this isn't the appropriate channel to ask your question, ask in your distro channel instead
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| 12:48 | <wim_> Hello, we are using ltsp-server-standalone (v5.3.4-1) with FAT Clients. we are using a log of remote apps. Everything was working fine. After the last debian/wheezy update we get an error like 'connect /tmp/.X11-unix/X7: No such file or directory - Can't open display'. Did something changed since the last update??
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| 13:13 | <alkisg> elias_a: about the webinar, sure, if you wanna do it no problem. I also asked a coworker of mine to be around, since he has more access to stats
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| 13:26 | <elias_a> alkisg: Great! I will start planning. I will write a Google doc about the questions for you and for public comments. Could you tell me a time that would be good for you on the week starting 9th of April?
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| 13:27 | * alkisg asks his coworker... | |
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| 13:31 | <alkisg> elias_a: Can we start about 10:00 or 11:00 am, some day from Monday to Wednesday that week?
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| 13:31 | I think we're on the same timezone, aren't we? GMT+3 on summer time...
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| 15:00 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, I want to blacklist certain kernel modules (sound drivers, actually) for certain thin clients. Any easy way to do this via lts.conf?
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| 15:01 | Not sure why I'm asking just alkisg by the way, I guess I'm getting used to just asking the oracle himself for help. :P
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| 15:01 | <alkisg> Hahaha
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| 15:01 | <Hyperbyte> It should be more of a general question of course, to anyone. ;-)
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| 15:02 | * alkisg needs to disguise himself, using another nickname... :D | |
| 15:02 | <Hyperbyte> (you're spoiling me, oracle ;-))
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| 15:02 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: why blacklist them? Aren't they supposed to not get loaded if the hardware isn't available?
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| 15:02 | <Hyperbyte> Oh but it is! And I don't want it.
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| 15:03 | <alkisg> Which hardware is that? pciid?
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| 15:03 | <Hyperbyte> And I don't really want to go the BIOS of 12 thin clients but one to disable onboard sound.
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| 15:03 | <alkisg> Ah
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| 15:03 | And rcfile + rmmod doesn't work, I suppose?
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| 15:04 | <Hyperbyte> Haven't tried.
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| 15:04 | <Hyperbyte> Currently I have the module listed in /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf in the image
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| 15:04 | However there's one client where I actually -do- want onboard sound to load.
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| 15:04 | <alkisg> You're not using 12.04, are you? :D
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| 15:05 | <Hyperbyte> No?
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| 15:05 | It's not out yet, is it? :P
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| 15:05 | (officially out)
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| 15:05 | <alkisg> It's in the official ubuntu future repository
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| 15:05 | Meh ok lame
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| 15:06 | One way to blacklist modules is from the kernel command line
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| 15:06 | <Hyperbyte> Lame that I'm not using 12.04 yet in a production environment? :-o
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| 15:06 | <alkisg> No, lame humor
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| 15:06 | <Hyperbyte> Oh. :P
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| 15:06 | <alkisg> ...which isn't really convenient for many clients
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| 15:06 | <Hyperbyte> I was more thinking along the lines of doing the opposite.
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| 15:06 | Rather than create one RCFILE which unloads/blacklists the module
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| 15:06 | <alkisg> So you'd need a new lts.conf option
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| 15:06 | BLACKLIST_MODULES=xxx
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| 15:06 | <Hyperbyte> I'd prefer creating an RC FILE that perhaps removes the blacklist and loads the module.
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| 15:06 | <alkisg> And then under the one client,
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| 15:07 | BLACKLIST_MODULES="' empty
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| 15:07 | <Hyperbyte> Or that, yes. But that doesn't exist, does it?
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| 15:07 | Besides, modprobe is done -before- LTSP init scripts are loaded, isn't it?
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| 15:09 | <alkisg> So... first thing to do is file a bug report, so that that option is provided in 12.04
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| 15:09 | In 12.04 the ltsp scripts run even before init
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| 15:09 | Second thing is to manually implement that for your version :)
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| 15:10 | In the old ltsp code, you should probably do that from the initramfs
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| 15:11 | So, you could create an /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-bottom script that does it, based on lts.conf values
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| 15:13 | Another idea is to let the module load itself, and just fix the sound settings so that the correct card is used
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| 15:14 | <Hyperbyte> Idea I'm currently thinking about is loading the module afterwards, manually
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| 15:14 | RCFILE=modprobe snd_hda_intel
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| 15:15 | I'm not sure if that honors the blacklist though, or if it can be made to ignore the blacklist
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| 15:15 | <alkisg> You could remove the blacklist from the same rcfile
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| 15:18 | <Hyperbyte> mhmmm
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| 15:18 | This could work
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| 15:18 | Next question - anything in 11.04 that would prevent a client from loading it's custom mac-based configuration from lts.conf?
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| 15:18 | <alkisg> Don't think so, getltscfg -a will tell you
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| 15:23 | <elias_a> alkisg: I check the timezone.... was away for a while.
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| 15:23 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, yeah, it told me it doesn't load it's own config
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| 15:23 | It does load the general config though
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| 15:24 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: pastebin?
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| 15:24 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, can I send you it in private this one time?
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| 15:24 | <alkisg> Sure
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| 15:26 | <Hyperbyte> There...
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| 15:28 | Oh gee
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| 15:28 | I see it
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| 15:28 | That's pretty stupid.
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| 15:28 | The client is in there twice with custom config.
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| 15:28 | * Hyperbyte applies head to flat surface | |
| 15:29 | <muppis> Please don't. Flast surface may get some shape.
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| 15:29 | -s
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| 15:30 | <Hyperbyte> Funny. In Dutch we have a saying, when you doubt something will happen, that literally says "I have a hard head that'll happen."
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| 15:31 | <muppis> :D
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| 15:31 | <highvoltage> how do you say "hard head" in dutch? in afrikaans it's "hardkoppig" but that usually means stubborn :)
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| 15:36 | <Hyperbyte> highvoltage, well, it means something like 'being pessimistic in something'
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| 15:36 | Having a hard head in something...
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| 15:36 | No idea why we say it actually.
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| 15:36 | In fact after trying to explain it, I think I might want to stop using it. :\ It makes no sense whatsoever.
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| 15:36 | But we say it.
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| 15:38 | <elias_a> highvoltage: Are you in SA?
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| 15:38 | Or RSA, I mean.
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| 15:43 | alkisg: Yep - same timezone. 10 or 11 am Mo-Wed is perfect. I will start planning.
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| 15:44 | <alkisg> elias_a: cool
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| 15:44 | <elias_a> alkisg: We should give the sw we are going to use a test run. Maybe some time this or next week?
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| 15:45 | <alkisg> Next week would be better, it would give us more time to prepare it. Which one should we download?
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| 15:45 | <elias_a> alkisg: You need a browser with the evil proprietary flash...
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| 15:45 | And preferably a headset microfone.
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| 15:45 | <alkisg> Sure, those are easy
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| 15:45 | <elias_a> Oh - and a webcam.
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| 15:45 | <alkisg> OK
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| 15:46 | <alkisg> I hope I don't need a haircut...
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| 15:46 | <elias_a> alkisg: Nope. Just do the same as I do. I have a banana and comb my face... :P
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| 15:48 | Hyperbyte: If you happen to live in South Africa let's have a chat on the LTSP situation there.
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| 15:48 | <Hyperbyte> elias_a, I happen to live in the Netherlands.
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| 15:48 | <elias_a> Hyperbyte: But speak afrikaans?
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| 15:49 | <Hyperbyte> Well, Afrikaans is 50% Dutch.
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| 15:49 | <elias_a> Hyperbyte: Are you from RSA?
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| 15:49 | <Hyperbyte> No, what gives you these ideas? :-)
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| 15:49 | <elias_a> Hyperbyte: Yep - close language relatives.
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| 15:50 | Hyperbyte: Well - you seemed to know some afrikaans.
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| 15:50 | <Hyperbyte> It's called hardkoppig in Dutch too.
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| 15:50 | <elias_a> People usually have some connection to afrikaans native speakers if they know the language.
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| 15:51 | Hyperbyte: Yes - I know.
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| 15:51 | Hyperbyte: Sorry to bother you ;-)
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| 15:51 | <Hyperbyte> But no, no relation to native Afrikaans speakers... but I love Afrikaanse musiek. :-)
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| 15:52 | I find the language quite fascinating.
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| 15:53 | <elias_a> I love the country.
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| 15:54 | It was such a nice surprise that it is not even post apartheid anymore.
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| 15:55 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, stgraber... all this time I've been using SCREEN_02 when I could've just pressed alt+enter :-(
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| 15:55 | <elias_a> The only ethnic group that misses the past are the redneck, right wing buurs.
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| 15:55 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: that's fix released for 11.04, isn't it?
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| 15:56 | <stgraber> Hyperbyte: ;)
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| 15:56 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, I didn't update yet.
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| 15:56 | It's much too comfortable pressing alt+enter
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| 15:56 | <elias_a> All other groups develop and lead an active life. Only the lazy rednecks get poorer. And they deserve it :P
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| 15:58 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, I've actually never ever updated my chroot
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| 15:59 | <alkisg> Yeah some people are even proud for 1 year uptime, forgetting about security updates that require reboots :)
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| 16:02 | <highvoltage> elias_a: I was
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| 16:07 | <elias_a> highvoltage: Sorry, you were what?
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| 16:07 | <highvoltage> elias_a: was in south africa
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| 16:07 | <elias_a> highvoltage: Where in RSA?
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| 16:08 | <highvoltage> elias_a: cape town for the most part, but also jo'burg, midrand for a while
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| 16:08 | (well, I've been all over)
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| 16:08 | <elias_a> Ok. I was only in joburg and kimberley.
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| 16:09 | <highvoltage> where are you from, elias_a?
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| 16:09 | <elias_a> Should go back but it is a bit tricky now with a new baby.
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| 16:09 | highvoltage: Finland.
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| 16:10 | Looks like I am going to wash the dishes.
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| 16:10 | <highvoltage> hehe
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| 16:44 | <wim_> Hello, we are using ltsp-server-standalone (v5.3.4-1) with FAT Clients. we are using a log of remote apps. Everything was working fine. After the last debian/wheezy update we get an error like 'connect /tmp/.X11-unix/X7: No such file or directory - Can't open display'. Did something changed since the last update??
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| 17:17 | <alkisg> wim_: you might want to retry asking later on, when vagrantc's here
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| 17:17 | Is something not working? Or it's just an error message?
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| 17:27 | <wim_> alkisg: normally we connect over ssh -X remote_server to start apps on a remote server. since the last debian updates in chroot we always get this error, so we cannot not start these apps anymore
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| 17:27 | i tried already a lot of things, but don't now anymore where to look further
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| 17:27 | <alkisg> ssh -x? not ltsp_remoteapps?
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| 17:29 | <wim_> no, we are using FAT Clients and can connect over ssh to our remote servers. it was just working fine before and i don't have a clue anymore where to look
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| 17:29 | <alkisg> Ah, you're not using *LTSP* fat clients, but your own custom implementation?
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| 17:30 | (it seems like we really need a new name for ltsp fat clients, many times there's confusion about them in this channel...)
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| 17:31 | <wim_> no, just LTSP fat clients configured in lts.conf (LTSP_FATCLIENT=True)
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| 17:36 | <knipwim> alkisg: the wiki will solve all confusion :)
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| 17:36 | <alkisg> Amen :)
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| 17:37 | <knipwim> alkisg: btw, you had a question earlier
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| 17:37 | 21:29 < alkisg> Ah, knipwim btw we have a grep init=/sbin/init-ltsp.d cmdline in some places in the code
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| 17:37 | you know where?
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| 17:39 | <alkisg> knipwim: not sure which ones you might be using, try `grep -r sbin/init-ltsp .` in the source code
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| 17:39 | It's possible that you're not using any of the places where it exists
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| 17:39 | E.g. ./client/initscripts/ltsp-core
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| 17:40 | <knipwim> not in /sbin/init-ltsp or the init-ltsp.d's
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| 17:40 | <alkisg> Or ./client/update-kernels
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| 17:40 | <knipwim> yes ltsp-core
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| 17:40 | but i'm not using that one
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| 17:42 | what does client/update-kernels do?
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| 17:45 | <knipwim> SUB_ARCH also has a default of uname -m :)
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| 17:45 | <mnevans> Hello LTSP world! I lost my usb support on my AMDE-350 client, and would really like it back. I am following the instructions at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AMDE-350 and have updated to the current ltspfsd-core_1.1-1_amd64.deb and ltspfsd_1.1-1_all.deb. But no luck. LTSP5, Ubuntu/Maverick 10.10, kernel 2.6.35-32-generic. Planning to go to 12.04LTS on the server next month. Must I just wait?
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| 17:48 | <alkisg> update-kernels is ran on the client kernel postinst hook, to generate the ltsp nbi and yaboot etc images
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| 17:49 | <knipwim> ahh
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| 17:49 | <knipwim> that explains a lot
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| 17:49 | i always wondered where in the install process of ubuntu/debian this was done
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| 17:53 | <mnevans> On step 4 of DebugLocalDev, I get the error: ERROR connecting
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| 17:53 | Error: /tmp/.mnevans-ltspfs/tmp is not mounted
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| 18:03 | Anyone running a 64-bit client and not having this problem?
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| 18:14 | <alkisg> apt-get dist-upgrade in my 12.04 fat chroot is very very slow, with no apparent reason (no high CPU usage etc)... I even see dpkg in 'D' (uninterruptible sleep) state in top, has anyone experienced anything similar?
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| 18:15 | <mnevans> Anyone? Stgraber? Alkisg? Mgariepy? Bueller? :-D
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| 18:15 | <alkisg> mnevans: no idea, I'm not using localdevs
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| 18:20 | <mgariepy> i don't have 64bit client sorry
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| 18:21 | <mnevans> Thanks alkisg, I remember that. Thanks mgariepy. I googled the problem and found this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/415952 but the fix is to upgrade to ltspfsd_1.1-1. Which I have...
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| 18:22 | Maybe I need to upgrade from ltspfs 1.0-1 to 1.1-1 on the server?
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| 18:24 | <knipwim> you could always try and find out, couldn't hurt to upgrade i reckon
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| 18:28 | <vagrantc> there weren't really any changes server-side for 1.0 -> 1.1, if i remember coorrectly
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| 18:28 | <mnevans> OK - why the *^%#&^ not. Installed ltspfs1.1-1 and dependencies (libc6, libc-bin). Installed ok. Now to reboot the server and client.
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| 18:29 | <vagrantc> uh.
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| 18:30 | <knipwim> reboot the server?
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| 18:30 | <||cw> heh
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| 18:30 | he thinks it's windows!
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| 18:41 | <alkisg> vagrantc: to detect if an ltsp boot was requested, we currently check for: grep -Eqsw "init=/sbin/init-ltsp|ltsp" /proc/cmdline
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| 18:41 | ...which is redudant, because "ltsp" also covers "init-ltsp". Since afaik no distro is currently using "ltsp" in its command line, maybe we can rewrite that to something better?
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| 18:41 | E.g. "grep -qs init=/sbin/init-ltsp", which also cover's Gentoo's "real_init=/sbin/init-ltsp", and if someone doesn't want to use the new init system, he can do e.g. "fake_init=/sbin/init-ltsp" ?
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| 18:47 | <wim_> Hello, we are using ltsp-server-standalone (v5.3.4-1) with FAT Clients. we are using a log of remote apps. Everything was working fine. After the last debian/wheezy update we get an error like 'connect /tmp/.X11-unix/X7: No such file or directory - Can't open display'. Did something changed since the last update?? Anyone an idea
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| 18:49 | <vagrantc> alkisg: it should be '[whitespace]ltsp[whitespace]'
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| 18:50 | alkisg: but yes, i remember looking at that and thinking it needed to be improved.
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| 18:50 | alkisg: i don't know all the use-cases... can't spend much time on it today.
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| 18:52 | <mnevans> I'm back after a server reboot. Installed ltspfs1.1-1, no change in behavior of usb stick.
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| 18:52 | <vagrantc> alkisg: why use grep instead of the while read trick, anyways?
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| 18:54 | <alkisg> vagrantc: ok the method doesn't matter much, grep is more readable, while is faster... it's what we grep for that matters though
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| 18:54 | <mnevans> ...but now the apt-get is unhappy about presence of new libc6 and libc-dev-bin
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| 18:55 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i thought grep was slower ... i don't remember though, we've switched back and forth on this so many times over the years.
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| 18:55 | <alkisg> vagrantc: grep is indeed slower, but it's also smaller, so we can check for "if an ltsp boot was requested" in a single line
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| 18:57 | I don't think it's worth the added complexity to use "while / read", at least until we cache the result in a /var/cache/ltsp/ file so that we're able to quickly source it from other scripts later on
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| 18:57 | (e.g. set it from initramfs or init-ltsp.d, source it from ltsp-core)
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| 19:19 | <mnevans> Well, I almost broke my system by going to ltspfs1.1-1 from 1.0-1, b/c of dependencies on libc6 and libc-bin... back to where I was. Still no usb support. Done for the day... thanks all.
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| 19:26 | <knipwim> vagrantc: what are your thoughts about creating /functions/$distro dirs for the distro specific functions
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| 19:27 | like ltsp-vendor-functions, ltsp-update-image-functions etc
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| 19:46 | <vagrantc> knipwim: i like the general idea
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| 19:49 | <knipwim> but the actual implementation is a question
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| 19:50 | i was just preparing a message for the mailing list
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| 19:50 | <vagrantc> i like "ltsp-vendor-functions" style things, then it doesn't require distro detection- each distro just installs something different to the same place.
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| 19:51 | alternately, if there could be a .d infrastrcture ...
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| 19:51 | ltsp-update-image-functions.d/
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| 19:51 | then a distro could drop a huge file in there, or a few little files, their call.
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| 19:52 | though one function per file would make it easier for distros to share (i.e. ubuntu and debian often have similar needs, but fedora, suse, gentoo might be a bit more different)
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| 19:53 | although maybe .d dirs could be assembled at build time rather than runtime.
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| 19:53 | <knipwim> yeah, using little files is most practical for ubuntu-debian
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| 19:54 | instead of having multiple overwrites, src common, then debian, then ubuntu for instance
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| 19:54 | and also in the .d solution, each distro can package that as if it were common
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| 19:54 | so no distro detection needed
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| 19:58 | ah, that's what you said
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| 20:11 | <epaphus> Hello. How can I check if this motherboard and its video is compatible with ltsp? http://www.amazon.com/ASRock-E350M1-Dual-Core-Mini-ITX-Motherboard/dp/B004KABOZG/ref=sr_1_5?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1332266740&sr=1-5
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| 20:12 | <epaphus> It is the new series of low power motherboard combo.
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| 20:14 | <muppis> epaphus, as my experience from ati/amd radeon chipsets, getting a smooth video playback with that can be pain.
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| 20:14 | <epaphus> muppis, why so? slow?
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| 20:17 | <muppis> epaphus, can be almost everything what you can imagine. I tcan run fine, if you don't try closed source (fglrx) drivers at all, but everything is done by cpu then.
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| 20:18 | Hopefully things has changed to better since last test.
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| 20:22 | <epaphus> Thanks muppis
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| 20:22 | Anybody here know about the VMView ? is it similar to ltsp in some way?
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| 20:48 | <||cw> epaphus: not at all
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| 20:49 | <||cw> with View you are connected to full virtual machine, either dedicated for the user or created dynamically from a template
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| 21:19 | <mgariepy> !tell alkisg to take a look at commit #2143 in ltsp-trunk to fix server/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu/030-fat-client script as well.
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| 21:19 | <ltsp> mgariepy: Error: I haven't seen alkisg, I'll let you do the telling.
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| 21:20 | <mgariepy> !tell alkisg to take a look at commit #2143 in ltsp-trunk to fix server/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu/030-fat-client script as well.
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| 21:20 | <ltsp> mgariepy: Error: I haven't seen alkisg, I'll let you do the telling.
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| 21:24 | <highvoltage> lier.
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| 21:49 | <alkisg> highvoltage: hello there, any progress on ldm-lubuntu-theme?
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| 21:50 | mgariepy: thanks, will do so tomorrow
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