IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 21 December 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 10:09 | <cib0> hello
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| 10:10 | MJS has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:13 | <cib0> does anyone here have an idea how to install the Thin Client Manager distributed with edubuntu from source?
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| 10:15 | <johnny> why would you want to do that?
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| 10:15 | <MJS> johnny: we want to install a Debian Server
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| 10:17 | plamengr has quit IRC | |
| 10:17 | <johnny> well.. what do you want thin client manager for?
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| 10:17 | italc does more
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| 10:18 | <cib0> according to MJS italc wasn't that great
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| 10:19 | <johnny> all thin client manager can do
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| 10:19 | is send messages and blank screens
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| 10:19 | italc can do alot more than that
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| 10:19 | the rest of thin client manager is broken
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| 10:19 | and the software in general is unmaintained
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| 10:19 | <cib0> i see
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| 10:19 | <MJS> well but I wasn't able to use italc
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| 10:20 | <johnny> you won't be able to use thin client manager
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| 10:20 | unless you plan on maintaining it :)
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| 10:20 | there are folks in here who are very familiar with italc
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| 10:20 | i personally don't use ltsp in an educational environment
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| 10:21 | so i don't know much about it personally
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| 10:21 | <cib0> well, maintaining it indeed would be an option, although it lacks any documentation as far as i have seen
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| 10:21 | <johnny> yes
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| 10:22 | italc is the best option as far as i know
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| 10:22 | stgraber would be the person who would know stuff
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| 10:23 | <cib0> ok, thanks alot for the info
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| 10:23 | <johnny> i'd suggest coming back tomorrow
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| 10:23 | during the weekday
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| 10:24 | this channel is not very active during the weekend
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| 10:24 | it is most active during daylight hours of usa/europe..
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| 10:25 | <MJS> johnny: how can I start x11vnc?
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| 10:25 | <cib0> hm, we currently lack knowledge of how exactly ltsp works..
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| 10:25 | <johnny> MJS, with thin client manager?
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| 10:26 | that support is the broken part
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| 10:26 | <MJS> no
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| 10:26 | I want to start it by typing "x11vnc"
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| 10:26 | <johnny> well i know it doesn't work via thin client manager
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| 10:26 | not sure how it work it any other way
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| 10:26 | <MJS> then it says: BadAcess (attempt to access private resource denied)
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| 10:26 | <johnny> cib0, well you can always read the documentation and ask questions
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| 10:26 | !docs
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| 10:26 | <ltspbot`> johnny: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 10:27 | <MJS> is it right, that LTSP is sth like SSH?
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| 10:27 | <johnny> sth?
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| 10:27 | <cib0> in a documentation i read it said you had to install it on the thin client itself, MJS thinks it's enough to install it on the server and call it via ssh, but i guess there is the problem
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| 10:27 | <MJS> something
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| 10:27 | <johnny> you must install xv11vnc on the thin client chroot
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| 10:27 | <MJS> AH!
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| 10:27 | ok thanks
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| 10:27 | <johnny> ltsp uses ssh
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| 10:27 | <MJS> ok
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| 10:28 | <johnny> by default in ubuntu/debian it tunnels X over ssh
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| 10:28 | if you set LDM_DIRECTX=True then it will only auth over ssh
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| 10:30 | <cib0> does that make any difference other than the security of the connection?
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| 10:30 | <johnny> it is faster without the tunneling :)
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| 10:30 | speed and security are the difference
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| 10:31 | on older hardware, LDM_DIRECTX is nearly a must
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| 10:32 | <alkisg> italc works out of the box without setting up x11vnc or anything in the chroot...
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| 10:32 | <cib0> i see.. now, what i don't really get is, that you need to install a program on the client so the server can see what's on the screen.. i thought the screen output would be generated on the server anyway, so why can't you just get the output directly from there?
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| 10:33 | <MJS> alkisg, but how does it work? when I start it says something about missing keypairs
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| 10:33 | <johnny> alkisg, i get the same thing too
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| 10:33 | i tried it once .. just to see
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| 10:33 | i saw the same key errors
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| 10:34 | <alkisg> MJS, which distro?
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| 10:34 | <MJS> Debian
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| 10:34 | (lenny)
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| 10:34 | <johnny> ubuntu here
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| 10:35 | <alkisg> Ehm.... never used lenny, let's see about the error johnny saw
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| 10:35 | <johnny> MJS, he meant that it works out of the box
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| 10:35 | on ubuntu
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| 10:35 | or is supposed to
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| 10:35 | <MJS> hmm ok
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| 10:35 | <alkisg> (I think that's also true for lenny, but can't say for sure)
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| 10:35 | You just have to add the clients
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| 10:35 | <johnny> well.. how about trying to generate the key then :)
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| 10:36 | alkisg, i get the same key error he is talking about
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| 10:36 | <MJS> afk - time to eat sth
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| 10:36 | <alkisg> The key is autogenerated
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| 10:36 | <johnny> didn't autogenerate for me
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| 10:36 | <alkisg> But if you have to, you may create another one
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| 10:36 | <johnny> i'm not there to test tho
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| 10:36 | <cib0> what exactly do you need the key for?
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| 10:37 | <alkisg> johnny: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/iTalc
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| 10:37 | <cib0> is italc even a thin client manager?
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| 10:37 | <johnny> alkisg, i didn't really look.. because my fellow workers think it is a privacy invasion
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| 10:37 | <alkisg> To create new keys, ica --create-key-pair
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| 10:37 | johnny: ok, I guess it's more helpful in schools...
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| 10:37 | <johnny> yeah
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| 10:38 | so far the concensus of the collective is that we shouldn't go this route
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| 10:38 | <alkisg> cib0: the keys are used for security
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| 10:38 | <johnny> i just tried to see it in action once
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| 10:38 | <alkisg> in the communication between clients & server
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| 10:38 | <johnny> and gave up when it didn't work right away, since i didn't actually need it
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| 10:38 | <cib0> alkisg: though in this case, clients and server are the very same machine?
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| 10:39 | <alkisg> cib0, yeap, it's all done through ssh tunnels
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| 10:39 | <alkisg> The recommented setup is to actually install italc in the chroot, so that it runs on the clients
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| 10:40 | <cib0> i don't get it..
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| 10:40 | <alkisg> Read the page I posted above, it has some explanations
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| 10:42 | The recommented setup is the second one, "Installation in the client chroot"
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| 10:42 | <MJS> re
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| 10:43 | <cib0> why would you need control over the base system running on the thin client?
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| 10:44 | <MJS> when I run "ica -createkeypair"
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| 10:44 | the info box with the missing keypair still appears
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| 10:44 | <alkisg> cib0: to shut it down... but it's not about control, it's about saving CPU on the server
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| 10:45 | <cib0> hm, i see
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| 10:45 | <alkisg> MJS, I'm not sure about lenny... I think you have to logoff for ica to run
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| 10:45 | <MJS> ok
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| 10:45 | then wait a minute
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| 10:48 | <MJS> re
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| 10:48 | hm...
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| 10:49 | didn't work
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| 10:51 | <alkisg> Still complains about the keys?
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| 10:51 | <MJS> yes
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| 10:51 | <alkisg> ps aux | grep ica?
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| 10:52 | <cib0> wait, this is getting confusing.. so you can install the italc master on the server, on the teacher's user.. you can install the italc client on the server, on the thin client's user.. and you can install it on the thin client itself?
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| 10:52 | <MJS> ica is running on the server
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| 10:52 | I can't start it on the clients
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| 10:53 | "Port 5800 is already used"
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| 10:53 | <alkisg> MJS, ica should automatically run for the clients when the users log on
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| 10:53 | <MJS> so i have to relogin?
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| 10:53 | <alkisg> A client? Yes
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| 10:54 | <alkisg> cib0: the thin clients are supposed to be diskless, you can't install anything on them
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| 10:54 | <MJS> its running on the client
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| 10:54 | but with the user logged on on the server
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| 10:54 | <alkisg> OK, so you can start italc on the server
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| 10:54 | and add the client so that you can see his screen
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| 10:55 | <cib0> alkisg: yeah, "install on the server and run it on the thin client itself" to be exact, which makes things even more complicated
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| 10:56 | <alkisg> cib0: all programs run like this: either on the chroot <=> on the client, or on the server
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| 10:56 | <MJS> now italc says that it cant find .user/globalconfig.xml
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| 10:56 | <alkisg> E.g. the X server is on the chroot, so it runs on the client, but firefox is on the server and runs on the server
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| 10:56 | <MJS> AND that the keypairs are missing
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| 10:57 | <alkisg> MJS, put "ps aux|grep ica" in pastebin...
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| 10:58 | !pastebot
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| 10:58 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
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| 11:00 | <MJS> http://pastebin.com/m3ea32216
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| 11:03 | <cib0> so.. what connection does italc make now for which it needs keypairs?
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| 11:04 | <MJS> hmmmmm
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| 11:04 | how can I use vncviewer
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| 11:04 | ?
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| 11:05 | when I start x11vnc on a client
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| 11:05 | it won't work
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| 11:06 | when i start it on the server
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| 11:06 | <alkisg> cib0: ssh
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| 11:06 | MJS: about ica, you don't run it manually, it automatically runs when you logong
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| 11:06 | And the keypairs should be created as "teacher"
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| 11:06 | <MJS> yes
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| 11:07 | I startet ica on the server
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| 11:07 | <cib0> ssh between the actual thin client machines and the server machine?
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| 11:07 | <MJS> and created the keypairs as "teacher"
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| 11:07 | <alkisg> This one shouldn't exist: manuel 25396 0.0 0.9 46648 10124 pts/0 Sl+ 17:51 0:00 ica
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| 11:07 | It should be something like: ica -noshm -isdport 5800 -ivsport 5900
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| 11:08 | (unless it works differently in lenny)
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| 11:08 | You shouldn't run ica on the server manually
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| 11:08 | <MJS> so well... lets start from the beginning
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| 11:08 | what should I do?
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| 11:08 | first
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| 11:10 | <alkisg> I'd go for complete uninstallation (along with the settings / keys) and reinstallation...
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| 11:10 | I still think that the correct keypairs are created as part of the installation
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| 11:11 | (with role=teacher)
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| 11:12 | <johnny> alkisg, i had just installed italc-master and no keys werecreated
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| 11:12 | <alkisg> johnny: in intrepid?
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| 11:12 | <johnny> yes
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| 11:12 | i got the same key errors
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| 11:13 | <alkisg> I'm not sure if you have to logoff from the server or restart the server or anything, but I never had to manually create keys
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| 11:13 | johnny: did it run ica?
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| 11:13 | (right after the installation, I mean)
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| 11:13 | <johnny> i don't know
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| 11:14 | <alkisg> ps aux|grep ica...
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| 11:14 | <johnny> just mentioning
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| 11:14 | i already removedit
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| 11:14 | as i said. privacy violation issues
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| 11:14 | <alkisg> Ah, ok
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| 11:14 | <MJS> well i'd like to first use vncviewer
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| 11:14 | just for seeing that it works
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| 11:14 | <alkisg> But maybe it *did* create the keys, and you just had to logoff...
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| 11:14 | <johnny> the machine had already been restarted
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| 11:14 | by the time i came back
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| 11:14 | <MJS> but even this doesn't work
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| 11:14 | <johnny> and tried again
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| 11:15 | <MJS> I added this line: "x11vnc -display :6 -forever -loop &" to my /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/rc.local
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| 11:15 | restartet the client
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| 11:15 | what must i type then on the server?
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| 11:16 | <johnny> i can only imagine that you connect to the clients ip
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| 11:16 | via that may or may not work
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| 11:16 | i don't know
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| 11:16 | i use ltsp for internet cafe type stuff.. so i don't use such things
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| 11:17 | <MJS> vncviewer 192.168.0.100
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| 11:17 | says: connection refused
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| 11:17 | <johnny> as i mentioned.. bad time for real help in such environments
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| 11:17 | seems like all the experts have real jobs :)
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| 11:17 | <cib0> i guess
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| 11:17 | <MJS> hm I just can't imagine that this CAN work
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| 11:17 | <johnny> and they only come in here during those job times
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| 11:17 | i know that italc works
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| 11:18 | people use it all the time
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| 11:18 | <MJS> I see the thin clients as "screens" of my server
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| 11:18 | <johnny> few people ask for help with anything else
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| 11:18 | <MJS> and how could i connect to a screen?
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| 11:18 | <johnny> it's almost like that..
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| 11:18 | x doesn't have "screen" support
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| 11:18 | <cib0> i really would like to understand how all this stuff works exactly, is there any documentation that goes through each aspect in detail?
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| 11:18 | <johnny> did you read the docs?
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| 11:18 | if you have questions, the documentation maintainer would love to hear em
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| 11:19 | <MJS> when I start on my server "xinit -- :1"
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| 11:19 | this is a new "screen" for me
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| 11:19 | if I then start x11vnc on this
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| 11:19 | I can't see it with vncviewer localhost:!
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| 11:19 | *localhost:1
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| 11:20 | <cib0> ah, i mixed the edubuntu docs with the ltsp docs.. ok, the ltsp docs are just what i need right now i guess
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| 11:20 | <johnny> it is rather complicated
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| 11:20 | ltsp is just a glue on top of standard unix tools to make what we want work
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| 11:20 | <MJS> vncviewer localhost:1
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| 11:20 | vncviewer: ConnectToTcpAddr: connect: Connection refused
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| 11:20 | Unable to connect to VNC server
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| 11:20 | <johnny> and it gets funny when you try to make local devices work and whatnot
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| 11:21 | and then when you want to run some apps remote
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| 11:21 | and some local
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| 11:21 | etc
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| 11:21 | <MJS> how can I manage this?
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| 11:21 | <johnny> sounds like nobody currently here knows.
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| 11:21 | i suggest trying back tomorrow
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| 11:22 | i don't really have time to investigate. working on xmpp stuff atm
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| 11:23 | <MJS> ok
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| 11:23 | thanks anyway
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| 11:24 | <klausade> MJS: that used to work fine before, but after the bug http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=469462 was fixed, I belive that vnc like you try to use it stopped working.
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| 11:24 | <MJS> hm ok
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| 12:48 | <elisboa> where can I read about how does LTSP deal with remote mountable devics?
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| 12:48 | *devices
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| 12:52 | <rjune_> I think the wiki
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| 13:09 | <juliannojungle> im trying to connect an usb webcam to a thin client in a ltsp enviroment, but im facing a problem that i think is with v4l. When i run a terminal as localapp in the client and type dmesg, the webcam is there, registered at /dev/video0, but neither amsn or skype can find it. someone know if im doing something wrong?
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| 13:11 | [ 9.899439] Linux video capture interface: v2.00
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| 13:11 | [ 9.917482] zc0301: V4L2 driver for ZC0301[P] Image Processor and Control Chip v1:1.10
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| 13:11 | [ 9.917527] usb 1-1: ZC0301[P] Image Processor and Control Chip detected (vid/pid 0x0AC8:0x303B)
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| 13:11 | [ 10.005836] usb 1-1: PB-0330 image sensor detected
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| 13:11 | [ 10.081030] ata4: SATA link down 1.5 Gbps (SStatus 0 SControl 300)
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| 13:11 | [ 10.427802] usb 1-1: Initialization succeeded
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| 13:11 | [ 10.427991] usb 1-1: V4L2 device registered as /dev/video0
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| 13:11 | [ 10.428018] usbcore: registered new interface driver zc0301
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| 13:12 | lsusb output --> Bus 001 Device 003: ID 0ac8:303b Z-Star Microelectronics Corp. ZC0303 WebCam
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| 13:14 | someone?
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| 13:16 | <juliannojungle> someone, plz? :(
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| 13:17 | <juliannojungle> anyone with working webcam at clients or who know how to put it to work can help me?
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| 13:19 | <juliannojungle> nobody? Oo
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| 13:20 | from 73 guys connected??? OO
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| 13:20 | ok...
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| 13:20 | c ya
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| 14:08 | <usuario> hola a todos
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| 17:06 | <cib0> "If you change the IP data after you have done the initial setup and run ltsp-update-sshkeys on the server." what in god's name does this sentence mean in English? i can't even find a main clause there
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| 17:10 | <Ryan52> heh. nice.
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| 17:10 | I think they mean "then" instead of "and" :)
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| 18:05 | <aqr8t> hello everyone
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| 18:08 | how can i setup lirc with a ltsp5 client? i installed the modules and the lirc deamon into the client image. but how does this work in a x session app?
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| 21:18 | <twb> Where can I find information on testing PXE booting using qemu?
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| 21:19 | I actually have the server as a qemu VM, too, because the VM machine is an order of magnitude better than the random crap that I'm given for testing.
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| 21:20 | (The LTSP server, of course.)
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| 21:23 | <rjune_> twb: I forget who was doing it
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| 21:24 | <Ryan52> twb: warren uses his laptop as the server and a qemu vm as the client when developing...he has some scripts in upstream bzr. you might want to look at them...
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| 21:24 | <twb> Looks like I can say -net nic,vlan=0 on both qemus
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| 21:25 | * cyberorg uses virtualbox | |
| 21:25 | <Ryan52> cyberorg: it stopped working for me! :(
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| 21:25 | <twb> I avoid virtualbox because it has an "enterprise edition"
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| 21:25 | Which automatically makes me wonder if they're really committed to FOSS, or are just interested in making $$$
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| 21:26 | <stgraber> Ryan52: I had a look to your change to ldm for the textbox behavior when the user is waiting for the session to open
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| 21:27 | Ryan52: it looks like you're marking it disabled after its content is cleared, can you at least leave the stars so the user sees it's his password and not just a disabled text entry ?
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| 21:27 | <cyberorg> twb, it also can mean that enterprise demands would make the devs add features and more polish to the product :)
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| 21:27 | <Ryan52> stgraber, ah, yes, will do.
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| 21:27 | <twb> cyberorg: IME "enterprise" means "add an extra zero to the invoice" :P
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| 21:28 | <alkisg> ...and the latest version of virtualbox has host interface emulation without tap devices etc... Very easy to use for ltsp testing
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| 21:28 | <twb> And "oh, you wanted it to work, too? Next you will want a source code license, you filthy customer"
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| 21:28 | <stgraber> Ryan52: thanks
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