IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 16 May 2017 (all times are UTC)
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| 07:41 | <bcg> If you're switching to git soon then I'll just forget this bzr fighting. It still doesn't work for me, does nothing.
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| 07:42 | <alkisg> The main problem is that launchpad doesn't yet support syncing translations with git branches
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| 07:43 | We may do it with an automatically synced bzr branch though... it has support for git=>bzr cloning
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| 10:03 | <Trendzetter> hi everyone! I am using LTSP to take exams
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| 10:03 | right now I am looking into epoptes
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| 10:03 | I have set up a debian desktop for epoptes server
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| 10:05 | <Trendzetter> when I run epoptes it I get an error 13
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| 10:05 | <alkisg> Trendzetter: use copy/paste to show the exact errors
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| 10:09 | <Trendzetter> https://pastebin.com/raw/ZBsVwb5V
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| 10:11 | <alkisg> Trendzetter: that means that you are not part of the epoptes group, or that you just got into that group but haven't logged out yet
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| 10:11 | See epoptes.org/installation for instructions
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| 10:11 | <Trendzetter> I added to the epoptes group but indeed I didn't log out afterwards..
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| 10:12 | <alkisg> You can use `newgrp epoptes`
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| 10:12 | To avoid logout
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| 10:12 | newgrp epoptes <enter>
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| 10:12 | epoptes <enter>
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| 10:13 | <Trendzetter> nice! now booting some clients and see if I get the connections established! thanks
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| 10:14 | <alkisg> np
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| 12:57 | <Trendzetter> I am not sure if I understand the ltsp-pnp epoptes architecture correctly. On the ltsp-pnp in set the hostname "server" to resolv it to 192.168.103.97 (my epoptes desktop server). When I boot a client terminal and I check to what "server" resolvs it is the ip of the ltsp-pnp server (192.168.130.248).
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| 12:58 | If I am using a different epoptes server than ltsp-pnp server than I should use a different name for the epoptes server than "server"
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| 12:58 | ?
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| 12:59 | I will give it a try if your buzy with other stuff
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| 12:59 | I'll let you know how it progresses
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| 13:18 | I am still stuck. No clients are being detected
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| 13:23 | I tried configuring the client sessions by logging on to the ltsp-pnp in the client profile and running "sudo epoptes-client -c 192.168.103.97". The certificate was fetched without issues.
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| 13:23 | then i rebooted the client
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| 13:25 | but the client session is not detected. using netstat I could not see a connection to the epoptes server(192.168.103.97)
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| 13:30 | <alkisg> Trendzetter: run this on the clients: ping server
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| 13:30 | As you see, it resolves to the ltsp server
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| 13:31 | If you want another server, configure /etc/default/epoptes-client accordingly, so that ping works
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| 13:31 | <Trendzetter> I tried "ping server". It pings the ltps-pnp server instead of the epoptes desktop
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| 13:31 | <alkisg> Check epoptes.org/installation for instructions
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| 13:31 | <Trendzetter> so I configured the client using fixed ip 192
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| 13:31 | ip 192.168.103.97
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| 13:31 | <alkisg> The epoptes server is an ltsp fat client?
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| 13:32 | Or is it a standalone computer that is not part of ltsp?
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| 13:32 | <Trendzetter> I am using your tutorial pnp, thats not fat client
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| 13:33 | <alkisg> !ltsp-pnp
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| 13:33 | <ltsp> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 13:33 | <alkisg> ltsp-pnp is fat clients, yes
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| 13:33 | <Trendzetter> the epoptes server is a debian virtual machine on esx
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| 13:33 | <alkisg> OK
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| 13:33 | So, you're supposed to install epoptes-server there, and epoptes client in ltsp
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| 13:33 | Not epoptes in ltsp at all
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| 13:35 | So, in ltsp, apt purge epoptes
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| 13:35 | <Trendzetter> ok so I make sure that no epoptes server is installed on the ltsp server and check the contents of /etc/default/epoptes-client
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| 13:35 | <alkisg> Open /etc/default/epoptes-client and set SERVER=debian-vm (or whatever the hostname is)
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| 13:35 | Or put the ip directly there
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| 13:35 | SERVER=192.168.103.97
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| 13:36 | Then run `sudo epoptes-client -c` to get the server certificate
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| 13:36 | Then ltsp-update-image -c / to create the updated ltsp image
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| 13:36 | Reboot clients, ready
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| 13:36 | <Trendzetter> ok. checking that out now
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| 13:57 | <Trendzetter> just wanted to confirm that the clients are now indeed visible from the epoptes desktop server
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| 14:01 | <alkisg> Cool
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| 18:01 | <vagrantc> alkisg: attempting to push my git branch now
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| 18:01 | <alkisg> vagrantc: cool
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| 18:01 | Yeah, I was proposing to use git on launchpad; but if you prefer github, we can do that too...
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| 18:02 | We'll have to do an extra step for the translations; I hope we'll manage
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| 18:02 | <vagrantc> https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/+git/ltsp
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| 18:02 | <alkisg> Maybe they'll need to be manually synced now, but that also saves us from the frequent lang commits issue
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| 18:02 | <vagrantc> i prefer launchpad, honestly
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| 18:03 | <alkisg> No objections from me
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| 18:03 | <vagrantc> there's enough ambiguity with GPL code on github
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| 18:03 | <alkisg> I may even revert epoptes to launchpad, to be there with ltsp and sch-scripts...
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| 18:03 | * vagrantc would be fine with that | |
| 18:04 | <vagrantc> phantomas got excited and moved everything to git ... and then... ah life. :)
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| 18:04 | <alkisg> So, once you put ltsp+ldm+ltspfs to git/launchpad, send a mail to the ltsp-developers list, so that everyone stops using the old trees
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| 18:04 | <vagrantc> er, github
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| 18:04 | <alkisg> Yeah he hopes he'll be able to work on epoptes again in the future, but let's see what comes up...
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| 18:05 | <vagrantc> so the translations still need a bzr branch that we have to manually merge?
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| 18:05 | <alkisg> https://code.launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/sch-scripts/trunk => The old, bazaar-based code repository of sch-scripts. Now it's moved to git: https://code.launchpad.net/sch-scripts
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| 18:05 | I made a note to the old bzr tree, we can do similar notes for ltsp
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| 18:05 | <vagrantc> there's also some flag we need to switch to make git the default and bzr the "alternative" VCS on launchpad
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| 18:06 | <alkisg> Yes otherwise build recipes fail :)
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| 18:06 | We don't want to mark bzr as the alternative, we want to mark that only git is used
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| 18:06 | <vagrantc> there are a few outstanding issues with build recipes we never really sorted out ... :/
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| 18:06 | <alkisg> The bzr branches will still be there, they won't be removed
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| 18:07 | I don't think launchpad supports pulling translations from git branches,
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| 18:07 | <vagrantc> but they'll use a different URL, if i recall, so they will effectively be hidden
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| 18:07 | <alkisg> so there are two ways to manage them,
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| 18:07 | <vagrantc> alkisg: do you know if there's a launchpad feature request for that? if not, we should open it
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| 18:07 | <alkisg> I think they're slowly working on that
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| 18:08 | ...one is to have an automatic bzr mirror of our git tree, and tell launchpad to use that for translations, but since it's a mirrror (=read only), to push the results to another, third tree,
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| 18:08 | <vagrantc> a little nudge on relevent bugs sometimes can get people to think about it again and make progress
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| 18:08 | alkisg: that sounds pretty good
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| 18:09 | <alkisg> and the second way is to manually push the .pot to a second bzr branch, and have launchpad maintain translations there, using only the .pot/po files
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| 18:09 | <vagrantc> i like the read-only branch idea
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| 18:09 | because then we can just merge the changes, rather than having to manually copy them into the branch
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| 18:10 | we could even do merge --squash, so we get one commit for all the translations
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| 18:10 | <alkisg> Do we want to merge the translations back to the initial tree, or do we want to keep them in the separate tree?
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| 18:10 | <vagrantc> i like branches that we can simply merge, myself
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| 18:11 | <alkisg> We can have a do-release script that pulls from 2 branches and creates a single .tar.gz, if we want that
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| 18:11 | * vagrantc would rather just merge them back into the master branch | |
| 18:11 | <alkisg> OK. That would be a manual process
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| 18:11 | Maybe we can do that before releases
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| 18:11 | <vagrantc> but then git tags are meaningful
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| 18:12 | e.g. you could in theory recreate the tarball from git
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| 18:12 | and i can sign the git tags
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| 18:13 | hmmm... not sure i can push the tags for only upstream
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| 18:13 | i guess i could also push the debian branches to launchpad
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| 18:14 | <alkisg> Yey!
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| 18:14 | <vagrantc> not in the way you're excited about :P
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| 18:15 | <alkisg> :D
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| 18:15 | It will still make synching easier
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| 18:15 | That alioth site is very frequently broken in several ways
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| 18:16 | E.g. mismatched certificate, wrong redirects, whatever
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| 18:16 | <vagrantc> ouch
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| 18:18 | alkisg: can you see the tags if you: git clone https://git.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/+git/ltsp ?
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| 18:18 | it's not clear to me if they are pushed or not
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| 18:19 | ah, they're visible from: https://git.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/+git/ltsp/
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| 18:19 | but https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/+git/ltsp only shows a brief summary
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| 18:20 | <alkisg> vagrantc: are we going to use tags anywhere else than for releases?
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| 18:20 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i don't intend to
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| 18:20 | <alkisg> OK, I can understand that much then. Otherwise I'd need a tutorial :D
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| 18:20 | <vagrantc> although there are a few oddball tags in there
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| 18:21 | <alkisg> What's after ltsp 5.5.9? 5.5.10 or 5.6.1?
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| 18:21 | <vagrantc> somehwere along the way this alkis person committed a "current" tag :P
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| 18:21 | <alkisg> I committed a tag? Never!
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| 18:21 | <vagrantc> alkisg: depends on how much we feel like changing it
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| 18:21 | <alkisg> It will signify the transition to git :D
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| 18:22 | <vagrantc> personally, i've been thinking we should call it ltsp 5.17 starting in january 2017
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| 18:22 | and 5.18 starting in january 2018
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| 18:23 | etc.
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| 18:23 | <alkisg> I would prefer ltsp 17.04.1 :D
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| 18:23 | <vagrantc> i wouldn't object
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| 18:23 | <alkisg> I already name sch-scripts that way
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| 18:24 | <vagrantc> i like the date being embedded in the release
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| 18:24 | i guess the zero-padding helps for sort order?
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| 18:24 | <alkisg> I think so, it might also make users more easily understand that it's a date
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| 18:25 | <vagrantc> with what we have now, people generally say "version 5-something
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| 18:25 | "
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| 18:25 | which... is... practically meaningless at this point
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| 18:25 | <alkisg> Yeah I don't even remember in which 5-something was ltsp-pnp implemented
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| 18:26 | <vagrantc> exactly
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| 18:26 | we really should have called it 6 when we moved to init-ltsp.d and implemented ltsp-pnp stuff
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| 18:26 | <alkisg> True
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| 18:26 | I asked for that but I was turned down :D
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| 18:26 | <vagrantc> though, to the end-user, there wasn't much difference
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| 18:27 | versioning based on feature differentness is actually kind of hard, which is part of why i like date based versioning
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| 18:27 | it's really simple to implement
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| 18:27 | for some reason i balk *slightly* at zero-padded versions, though
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| 18:27 | <alkisg> Suppose stretch has ltsp 17.04
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| 18:28 | <vagrantc> no, stretch froze in 16.11
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| 18:28 | <alkisg> OK
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| 18:28 | <vagrantc> i added some features since, but not much
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| 18:28 | * vagrantc would like debian to version based on the date of freeze | |
| 18:28 | <alkisg> Some time later you backport it to jessie, but you cherry pick some commits. What do you call that, 16.11.1?
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| 18:29 | And, if you put those commits to stretch too? Or more commits? 16.11.2?
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| 18:29 | <vagrantc> alkisg: backport would be 16.11~0bpo$RELEASEVERSION+$N
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| 18:29 | <alkisg> What is $RELEASEVERSION?
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| 18:29 | <vagrantc> debian jessie is 8, stretch is 9
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| 18:29 | <alkisg> OK
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| 18:30 | <vagrantc> there's a standard protocol for backport versioning in debian, security update versioning, point-release updates, etc.
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| 18:31 | <alkisg> And if you want the equivalent of an "SRU" for stretch? I.e. cherry pick some more bug fixes, after stretch is out?
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| 18:31 | How is that called?
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| 18:31 | <vagrantc> +deb9u$N
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| 18:31 | <alkisg> Cool
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| 18:31 | <vagrantc> if i'm remembering exactly correctly
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| 18:31 | <alkisg> I like that
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| 18:32 | <vagrantc> might be subtle variations, but that's the idea
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| 18:32 | maybe point release/SRU and security updates use the same versioning
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| 18:33 | <alkisg> In PPAs, I might end up having two versions, like... 16.11.1~201703160820~xenial1
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| 18:33 | ...but I don't think that's too bad either
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| 18:34 | <vagrantc> let's think more about versioning once stretch releases :)
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| 18:35 | <alkisg> Well I decided I won't bother with SRUs, so I don't need ltsp releases for ubuntu, so I don't mind waiting for the debian cycle to take its course
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| 18:35 | For ppas, the date is fine
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| 18:35 | <vagrantc> so, ltsp upstream is converted over to git, as far as i can tell ... will think a bit more about the debian branch(es) later
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| 18:35 | <alkisg> What about ldm, ltspfs, ltsp-docs?
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| 18:35 | <vagrantc> yeah, was going to move on to ldm and ltspfs next
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| 18:35 | <alkisg> Nice
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| 18:36 | <vagrantc> ltsp-docs seems so out of date... it might be easier to start over
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| 18:36 | <alkisg> Hmm, we'll probably want to disable translations until we get the new translations support ready
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| 18:36 | Otherwise they'll still be committed to the old branch
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| 18:37 | ...and I hope we won't lose the new translations that will come until we get the translations support ready... hmm...
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| 18:40 | <vagrantc> can we leave a branch as is, but mark it as read-only?
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| 18:40 | for launchpad bzr branches or whatever
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| 18:40 | alkisg: and were you saying we can mirror the git branch as a bzr branch for translations in an automated way?
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| 18:42 | ok, ldm pushed
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| 18:46 | and ltspfs pushed
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| 18:47 | last commit to ltspfs was in late 2014
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| 18:47 | really minor packaging changes in late 2015
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| 18:47 | guess it's been working
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| 18:47 | or it's so broken people are too embarrased to report bugs
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| 18:48 | * vagrantc suspects it works well enough | |
| 18:48 | <vagrantc> sometimes the sign of a good project is the lack of needing to make lots of updates
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| 18:49 | i should really prioritize the libpam-* stuff so as to stop having to ask people to stop abusing themselves with LDM_XSESSION
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| 18:52 | alkisg: should we switch the default VCS to git now... that might "break" the translations since the URLs will change
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| 18:59 | <vagrantc> there were two mails sent to ltsp-developer in 2016, and one of them was spam
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| 19:01 | <alkisg> Hehe
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| 19:01 | One for 2017 then will be enough
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| 19:01 | <alkisg> We can mirror git to bzr, but I don't know yet how to properly set up the translations
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| 19:02 | I'll look it up during the sch-scripts internationalization
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| 19:02 | I don't think we have many new translations coming nowadays, so I hope we won't lose much
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| 19:04 | <vagrantc> wpw. o
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| 19:04 | wow, i'm really confused about what this switch to git button does
| |
| 19:05 | ok, so https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ still shows bzr branches
| |
| 19:06 | https://code.launchpad.net/ltsp/ shows no branches anymore
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| 19:08 | apparently i need to import them from ~ltsp-upstream user to the ltsp project ... ?!
| |
| 19:25 | needed to mark the individual git branches as part of the ltsp project
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| 19:25 | done for now
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| 19:37 | announced to ltsp-developer
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