IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 8 March 2012 (all times are UTC)
| 00:01 | <vagrantc> naptastic: no thin client should have write access to that
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| 00:01 | naptastic: so none of them should see each other's files.
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| 00:51 | <naptastic> vagrantc, how does ltsp keep them from having write access? Is / mounted read-only? Is the file set immutable?
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| 01:06 | <vagrantc> pffft.
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| 06:10 | <srdjo_> @alkisg good morning alkisg
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| 06:10 | <alkisg> Good morning srdjo_
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| 06:10 | <srdjo_> just to let you know that the rc.local solution did not work
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| 06:11 | <alkisg> That's strange, did you put cupsctl above exit 0?
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| 06:11 | <srdjo_> yes I did
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| 06:12 | it shows on cat /etc/rc.local too
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| 06:12 | abowe exit 0
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| 06:13 | <alkisg> I appears that cups is still not ready when rc.local is ran then... well, just wait until some developer is interested in your bug report
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| 06:16 | <srdjo_> since I moved my production server to fat clients I need to find some workaround just for runing cupsctl even at user login - is there any way I can make script that runs as chroot root acount ?
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| 06:17 | <alkisg> Try putting it in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/rc.d/
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| 06:17 | <srdjo_> right now users have to open system-config-printer every time they log in
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| 06:17 | wil it be run as root ?
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| 06:17 | <alkisg> Yes scripts there run as root
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| 06:27 | <srdjo_> I think I found a workaround
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| 06:27 | by copying cupsd.conf to my chroot
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| 06:27 | all sharing options are enabled at logon
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| 06:28 | I think that in case of FAT client normal cupsd.conf should be used insted of thin client one
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| 06:29 | because many setting are limited, and there is no need to limit anything on FAT client
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| 06:29 | <alkisg> srdjo_: your server cupsd.conf were modified when you used the printers dialog to enable printer sharing
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| 06:30 | There's no difference between a "thin" cupsd.conf and a "fat" cupsd.conf
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| 06:32 | <srdjo_> No, I copied cupsd.conf from /etc/cups/ from my ubuntu installation
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| 06:32 | <alkisg> Yes, I understood that
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| 06:32 | <srdjo_> the limitations i mentioned is disabled web panel from client cups
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| 06:32 | root was needed to make any change
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| 06:32 | <alkisg> When you go to the printer settings dialog in your normal installation, you modify your cupsd.conf
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| 06:33 | But of course ltsp can't use that method, it can't tell the user to use the gui and then copy stuff
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| 06:34 | <srdjo_> i understand - you mean the dafault cups file in /etc/cups is the same as the one in chroot at installation (before any GUI changes) ?
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| 06:35 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 06:59 | <alkisg> cyberorg: can we remove the functions from ltsp-init-common that were moved to init-ltsp.d? Does OpenSUSE still use them from ltsp-init-common?
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| 07:06 | <cyberorg> alkisg, hi, we don't need them anymore
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| 07:07 | <alkisg> Nice, ok so I only see references of them in RPM/, I'll delete them and if they want then can install local copies of them
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| 07:07 | <cyberorg> everything in common/ can be removed from ltsp-init-common
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| 07:07 | <alkisg> Cool, I'll delete a few hundend lines then :D
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| 08:09 | <alkisg> highvoltage: hi, is there an invisible box around the ubuntu logo and the username/password in ldm?
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| 08:09 | Sometimes after entering the password, the whole box seems to move to the left
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| 08:09 | So I can see a bit of the splash stripe twice, it's ugly
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| 08:14 | <srdjo> @alkisg when I put the script in the /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/rc.d/ is it auto executed or do I have to register it ?
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| 08:15 | <alkisg> It's autoexecuted
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| 09:24 | <markit> hi, forgive my ignorance, but so far I've only installed a "thin client" solution, now I've my first "fat" one and some problems show up... the first one is that clients don't see the printer of the server (of course). If I will flag it on the server as "shared", will I have to config it for each user?
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| 09:24 | (I've not the ltsp server here for experiment myself, and I've to go to school tomorrow to fix it)
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| 09:27 | <alkisg> markit: no, just checking [x] publich local printers on the server is enough
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| 09:28 | <markit> alkisg: too good :) thanks (I've seen new epoptes released... I've to try it, I'm so much far behind your releases, sigh)
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| 09:28 | <alkisg> I've yet to see any problems at all with the new epoptes version
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| 09:29 | <markit> alkisg: btw, you urged to fix some stability problems last time I asked you about the feature that let's the teacher "deploy" a file to student's home
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| 09:29 | will it be implemented soon or is a feature not seen as needed?
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| 09:29 | <alkisg> Ermmm I think you misunderstood what I said there
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| 09:29 | I said that the networking backend is not good enough for file transfers
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| 09:30 | It's single-channel only, used for commands and screenshots etc
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| 09:30 | So if you use that channel to transfer files, epoptes won't be able to issue commands or get screenshot thumbnails etc
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| 09:30 | <markit> temporary during file transfer?
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| 09:30 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 09:31 | <markit> not a issue then
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| 09:31 | <alkisg> But that will cause timeouts and other stuff to occur
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| 09:31 | <markit> ah
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| 09:31 | <alkisg> So it is an issue if the files are large
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| 09:31 | <markit> probably text files or small pictures
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| 09:31 | <alkisg> E.g. one might try to transfer 1 gb with that menu
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| 09:31 | <markit> let's check file size and prevent it :)
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| 09:31 | <alkisg> Now, in order to allow for parallel network transfers, the client would need to be rewritten in C
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| 09:32 | That' s indeed in our todo list, but not in a short todo list
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| 09:32 | <markit> alkisg: let's go back in time... long time ago
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| 09:32 | <alkisg> So I wouldn 't expect that feature to arrive before 14.04
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| 09:32 | <markit> I told you that I've implemented a dir structure, with ACL, and teacher s hould put files want students to "read"
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| 09:32 | in a dir /srv/public/readonly (for instance)
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| 09:32 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 09:32 | <markit> you told me that with sch-script you took a different aproach
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| 09:33 | and you put file in student's home directly
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| 09:33 | I thought my aproach was much better
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| 09:33 | and as usual, I've to admit your was better then mine
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| 09:33 | at least with young pupils
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| 09:33 | (6-8 years)
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| 09:33 | but when I asked about having it in epoptes you raised that technical problems
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| 09:34 | <alkisg> sch-scripts doesn't have a shared folders or send files implementation yet
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| 09:34 | It does have some code and ideas, but nothing published in the menus
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| 09:34 | <markit> oh, so I misunderstood
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| 09:34 | <alkisg> Also, sch-scripts assumes that ltsp is used
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| 09:34 | epoptes doesn't make that assumption, as it wants to work without ltsp too
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| 09:34 | So, what we currently do is to have a readonly shared folder in /home/teacher/Public,
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| 09:35 | and create symlinks for that in the pupil's desktop dirs
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| 09:35 | We've been doing that for years, it works for 90% of the cases
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| 09:35 | But indeed there are cases where sending files would be better
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| 09:35 | <markit> ok, very good tip, if I only were able to do in kde...
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| 09:35 | <alkisg> Sure, it should be very easy
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| 09:35 | Now, remember that you can issue a command with epoptes to the clients:
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| 09:36 | <markit> I mean, I create the student's account, but KDE structure in home is not created until you login for the first time
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| 09:36 | <alkisg> cp /home/teacher/file ~
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| 09:36 | So with that you can copy a file to many students at once
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| 09:36 | Of course it's not easy for teachers to enter that command
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| 09:37 | But once epoptes supports bookmarks, you can have some fixed locations where the teacher can put stuff, and a bookmark to transfer them
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| 09:37 | <markit> Dophin has the "resource" panel, where you have i.e. Home, Root, etc very handy
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| 09:37 | I would love to have it include /serv/public
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| 09:37 | but is something I'm able to do "manually"
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| 09:38 | <alkisg> Why not symlink the pupil's "$HOME/Public" dir to /srv/public ?
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| 09:38 | <markit> maybe I've to hack the "kde account template" used during home kde config creation
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| 09:38 | good idea!
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| 10:24 | <alkisg> Could someone NOT using Debian/Ubuntu tell me if he has /usr/share/xsessions/*.desktop files in his desktop PC?
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| 10:25 | <ball> I don't but then I'm not on Linux so that's probably not helpful.
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| 10:25 | <alkisg> Hehe, I meant for OSes where the ltsp-server package can be installed :)
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| 10:26 | <ball> Pretty sure that's not an option on BSD
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| 10:27 | <ball> Thinking of building an LTSP server around Xubuntu though, for a small office.
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| 10:28 | <alkisg> That should be painless
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| 10:28 | <ball> I need to take some of the network adaptors out of the server first though and probably put some more disk drives in there.
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| 10:28 | ...and drive it down to the site.
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| 10:44 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, Fedora 16 - /usr/share/xsessions/gnome.desktop
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| 10:45 | <Briareos1> Hyperbyte: hey Hyperbyte, you remember the issue regarding screen resolutions, we talked abt the other day?
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| 10:45 | <alkisg> Thank you Hyperbyte, so it's reasonable to say that images that have desktop files in there do support local (fat) logins
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| 10:45 | <Hyperbyte> Briareos1, vaguely.
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| 10:46 | <Briareos1> Hyperbyte: <Hyperbyte> Briareos1, alright. My guess is that the videocard also has a TV output. --- <Hyperbyte> Since a TV output does not detect resolution, it only detects some default non-widescreen resolutions.
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| 10:46 | <Hyperbyte> Briareos1, http://irclogs.ltsp.org/
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| 10:46 | Please just ask your question. :-)
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| 10:47 | IIRC, I asked you for some xrandr output and never got it.
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| 10:48 | <Briareos1> Hyperbyte: that's why i am here today :) http://pastebin.com/yJCTRiuM
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| 10:50 | the monitor's recommended res would be 1920 x 1080 ...
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| 10:50 | <Hyperbyte> Looks like it's just one output, with one screen. It's not detecting resolution correctly.
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| 10:50 | Just a hunch
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| 10:50 | Is the screen attached with a DVI->VGA adapter?
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| 10:51 | <Briareos1> Hyperbyte: possible - need to check
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| 10:51 | <Hyperbyte> If so, that's your problem.
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| 10:51 | DVI->VGA adapters are evil.
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| 10:51 | <alkisg> Is the opposite possible? VGA card -> DVI monitor?
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| 10:52 | <Briareos1> does it make a difference on which side DVI and VGA are?
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| 10:52 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, no, it's not.
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| 10:52 | <alkisg> Darn :)
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| 10:52 | <ball> alkisg: Yes, sort of
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| 10:52 | <Hyperbyte> DVI has extra pins to allow analog input as well as digital. VGA only allows analog.
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| 10:52 | <ball> Hyperbyte: Not all DVI has those
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| 10:52 | There's DVI-D (digital only)
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| 10:52 | DVI-I (digital and analogue)
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| 10:52 | and DVI-A (mostly theoretical, just analogue)
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| 10:53 | So you can go from a VGA port to a DVI-I input on a monitor, but it doesn't make much sense
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| 10:53 | <Hyperbyte> ball, yes - and you can use a signal converter to go from VGA card to DVI monitor, but this isn't really what alkisg wants to know I think. ;-)
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| 10:53 | <ball> ...unless you find a monitor that somehow lacks VGA in)
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| 10:53 | Hyperbyte: I'm talking just cables.
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| 10:53 | No convertors required.
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| 10:53 | <alkisg> Yeah Hyperbyte's right, I was just trying to connect my (VGA) laptop to my (DVI) LG monitor
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| 10:54 | And I had a DVI->VGA connector, and was wondering if it would make sense to remove the extra pins :D
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| 10:54 | <ball> alkisg: Does the LG monitor have a VGA input?
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| 10:54 | <alkisg> It does, but I'm connecting another device there
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| 10:54 | <Briareos1> alkisg: i'd suppose it will work as long as you have DVI-I ... and the monitor supports vga
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| 10:54 | <ball> alkisg: Is the input a DVI-I?
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| 10:54 | <alkisg> How would I know?
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| 10:54 | <ball> (does it have four holes around the cross-shaped slot?)
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| 10:55 | alkisg: Don't remove any pins)
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| 10:55 | <alkisg> http://www.cnet.com.au/shared/images/products/dvi_input_200x150.gif
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| 10:55 | <ball> I can't view that.
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| 10:55 | <alkisg> That's my LG DVI input
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| 10:55 | <ball> Just tell me.
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| 10:55 | <Hyperbyte> It's DVI-D.
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| 10:55 | <alkisg> Ah sorry, no, it doesn't have holes around it
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| 10:55 | <Hyperbyte> Which brings me back to my original answer: it's not possible.
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| 10:56 | <ball> Hyperbyte: Yeah, you can't connect VGA to that then.
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| 10:56 | <Hyperbyte> Cue applause!
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| 10:56 | <alkisg> Thank you all :D
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| 10:56 | <ball> Hyperbyte: Right, but you could easily have been wrong.
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| 10:56 | * Hyperbyte takes a bow | |
| 10:56 | <ball> Hyperbyte: Because you were ambiguous
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| 10:56 | * alkisg applauses everyone involved :D | |
| 10:56 | * ball prepares the trout. | |
| 10:56 | * Hyperbyte rolls ball away | |
| 10:56 | <ball> In fairness, you weren't ambiguous, just perhaps missing some information.
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| 10:57 | <alkisg> So Hyperbyte if I had this one, it would be possible? http://www.plus-america.com/images/pdetail/pd_dvi_detail.gif
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| 10:57 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, doesn't the screen have a HDMI input as well?
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| 10:57 | <alkisg> It does, but I only have VGA outputs
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| 10:57 | <Briareos1> Hyperbyte: is the same problem present if both sides are VGA?
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| 10:57 | <alkisg> I want to connect a thin client and my laptop to the same monitor, and both only have VGA outputs
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| 10:58 | <Briareos1> i mean in regards to the recognition of available resolutions
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| 10:58 | <Hyperbyte> Briareos1, VGA/DVI adapters confuse Ubuntu.
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| 10:58 | VGA to VGA should work fine, as would DVI to DVI.
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| 10:58 | <ball> alkisg: KVM switch?
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| 10:58 | <Hyperbyte> Wouldn't hurt to exchange the VGA cable for a DVI one and see if that fixes the problem though.
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| 10:59 | <Briareos1> sure
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| 10:59 | <Hyperbyte> Else manually add the resolution with xrandr, see if you can get it going that way
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| 10:59 | Have a look here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1033066
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| 10:59 | <alkisg> ball, sure, but I think that's more expensive than my thin client :P
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| 10:59 | <ball> alkisg: Shouldn't be, especially not for a 2-way
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| 11:00 | <alkisg> Briareos1: you can override EDID detection by putting X_HORZSYNC and X_VERTREFRESH in lts.conf
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| 11:00 | ball: cheapest one I can find around me is at 22€... not worth the trouble, I only rarely want to test performance with my ancient 128mb ram thin client
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| 11:01 | bb in 20'
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| 11:01 | * ball ponders | |
| 11:01 | <Hyperbyte> :P
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| 11:01 | <ball> I may have to have a go at installing Xubuntu tomorrow, with LTSP
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| 11:02 | I need to start rolling out some more modern stuff than we're currently using.
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| 11:02 | <Hyperbyte> Really?
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| 11:02 | What are you using now?
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| 11:03 | <ball> NetBSD on the file server, MS Windows XP on the desktops
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| 11:03 | <Briareos1> alkisg: why would i need to override EDID ? doesn't manually setting the modes suffice?
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| 11:03 | <ball> (besides a Vista machine and a Windows 7 box)
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| 11:03 | <Hyperbyte> ball, oh, I thought you meant hardware-wise.
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| 11:04 | <ball> Hyperbyte: That too.
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| 11:04 | Server has two cores, 2G RAM
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| 11:04 | <Hyperbyte> Briareos1, manually setting the modes = override EDID.
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| 11:04 | <ball> Workstations mostly single-core with 1G
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| 11:04 | <Hyperbyte> ball, thinking of thin or fat clients?
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| 11:05 | <Briareos1> ah ok - so testing via the xrandr and if it works, putting it into lts.conf - I guess that's what you and alkisg meant ?
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| 11:05 | <ball> Hyperbyte: I'd like to go thin, but may end up going with fat clients just to reduce the load. Even our "new" server only has two dual-core processors
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| 11:05 | <Hyperbyte> Briareos1, yes sir.
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| 11:05 | <Briareos1> ty :)
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| 11:05 | <ball> I don't think I'll upgrade it to two quad-core
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| 11:06 | <Hyperbyte> ball, how many clients?
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| 11:06 | <ball> Hyperbyte: Probably start with four, upgrade to more later.
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| 11:06 | <Hyperbyte> ball, how many is 'more'?
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| 11:06 | What's the maximum amount of clients you want on your server at one time?
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| 11:12 | <ball> Hyperbyte: That'll depend on the server, but probably 8 until we get something more powerful
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| 11:12 | I'll need more RAM too
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| 11:13 | <Hyperbyte> 2 GB RAM should be okay for four clients, maybe even 8 if you're using XFCE and not too many applications
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| 11:13 | <ball> the "new" server has 3G RAM
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| 11:13 | I may have more for it ...somewhere.
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| 11:14 | <Hyperbyte> I don't know if you build your own servers, but an 8-core AMD FX isn't so expensive, nor is 16 GB ram.
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| 11:14 | <ball> We bought the dual-core (tower) server new. The quad-core (rack mount) was donated.
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| 11:16 | <Hyperbyte> Well, most important thing is gonna be RAM.
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| 11:16 | <ball> I'd love to move to something with a couple of Xeon E3-1220s, but we have no budget for that.
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| 11:17 | <Hyperbyte> Quad-core processor should suffice easily, but 2GB RAM can be low for 8 clients if everyone opens mail, browser, etc.
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| 11:17 | <ball> I'll probably recycle the old desktops as diskless workstations and eventually replace them with dedicated terminals.
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| 11:17 | ...as they fail.
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| 11:17 | <Hyperbyte> You could remedy this by running several memory hogs (like a web browser) as a local application on the client, rather than on the server.
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| 11:17 | <ball> ...or as we can afford them.
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| 11:18 | <Hyperbyte> If you put web browser and mail program on the local client, rather than on the server, you'll save a lot of RAM.
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| 11:18 | Because then the 1GB's in the clients get used for that.
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| 11:19 | Either that, or go fat-clients completely, and don't use CPU/RAM of the server.
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| 11:20 | <ball> Does that introduce a lot of complexity in terms of mapping file space on the server to a local mountpoint on the diskless workstations
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| 11:20 | ?
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| 11:22 | <Hyperbyte> No, LTSP mounts /home/<user>/ from the server as /home/<user>/ on the client.
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| 11:22 | localapps is something LTSP supports out-of-the-box
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| 11:22 | !localapps
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| 11:22 | <ltsp> Hyperbyte: localapps: to access a tutorial on setting up localapps on jaunty, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPLocalAppsJaunty
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| 11:22 | <Hyperbyte> Oh, that's old... from before it was out-of-the-box supported
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| 11:23 | <ball> Hmm...
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| 11:23 | <Hyperbyte> !install-localapps
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| 11:23 | <ltsp> Hyperbyte: I do not know about 'install-localapps', but I do know about these similar topics: 'install-localapp'
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| 11:23 | <Hyperbyte> !install-localapp
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| 11:23 | <ltsp> Hyperbyte: install-localapp: To install an application locally on the client, in the chroot environment, use this guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/GuiInstallLocalApp For non-graphical installations, you can skip steps 1 and 2.
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| 11:23 | <Hyperbyte> That's the correct one. That's what you have to do to set an application up to run locally on the client, rather than on the server.
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| 11:23 | <ball> I guess we'll have to endure these workstations until we can afford something more powerful
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| 11:24 | I should probably write some grant applications.
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| 11:25 | <Hyperbyte> ball, LTSP will work fine with your current hardware. You just have to watch memory usage on the server, if you want to use thin clients.
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| 11:33 | <ball> I'll wipe the server in morning then and try Xubuntu on it.
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| 11:33 | I need to see if printing has improved since last time we tried it.
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| 11:34 | ...or see whether we can find new drivers for the printer.
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| 11:35 | I really do want to get us moving in this direction.
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| 11:37 | <Hyperbyte> It's very rewarding once you are there. :P
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| 11:39 | <ball> Hyperbyte: We're a non-profit and I'm painfully aware that the money we should be spending on new hardware goes on managing our aging desktops
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| 11:39 | ...and softwaree licenses to some extent.
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| 11:40 | Come to think of it, that database probably costs us thousands.
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| 11:40 | I hate that thing.
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| 11:42 | Haven't found an affordable alternative though.
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| 11:42 | (or a portable one)
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| 11:52 | <ball> Oh well, it's almost 06:00
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| 11:52 | I should go.
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| 11:53 | Hyperbyte: Thanks for all your help.
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| 12:00 | <srdjo> @alkisg I came to idea to make a separate cupsd.conf file for each client having local printers (since all settings are lost on shutdown and printer is reinstalled on every boot). Can you tell me where can I call a script to symlink clients cupsd.conf to for example /home/cups/client1/cupsd.conf and when shoudl it run ?
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| 12:19 | <srdjo> copying the cupsd.conf to chroot made the sharing problem go away, but I have a printer that needs to be set to print at A4 paper size or it wont print, and the changes are lost on reboot
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| 12:21 | is it possible to create a separate chroots for these two clients and hardcode the settings in cupsd.conf ? Can it be done ?
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| 12:48 | <zsceglow> Hi, Im Karol from Poland
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| 12:50 | <alkisg> zsceglow: Hi Karol
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| 12:50 | Karol, the quickest way to troubleshoot the epoptes problem would be to share a vnc screen with me, using the epoptes help menu
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| 12:51 | Karol, if you want to, go to Help > Remote support, and put my ip there: alkisg.dyndns.org
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| 12:52 | <zsceglow> ok
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| 12:52 | moment
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| 13:28 | <alkisg> zsceglow: I pressed Alt+F4 by mistake
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| 13:28 | And I closed my VNC window
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| 13:28 | zsceglow: can you go to Epoptes > Help > Remote support again?
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| 13:28 | alkisg.dyndns.org
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| 13:35 | <highvoltage> alkisg: yes, there's an invisible box around the login section in ldm. it's actually a window in wickedwm with the window decorations hidden
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| 13:36 | <alkisg> zsceglow_: hi again, I lost the vnc connection
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| 13:36 | Can you vnc to alkisg.dyndns.org again?
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| 13:36 | <zsceglow_> my Xs froze
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| 13:36 | <alkisg> Ouch
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| 13:43 | <wim_> i have gnome-session (3.2.1-1 - debian wheezy) running on FAT CLIENTS but there is no lock screen button. How can I activate them?
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| 13:44 | <highvoltage> wim_: what happens when you press ctrl+alt+L?
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| 13:45 | <alkisg> zsceglow_: so the problem is that you specified an invalid dns server
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| 13:45 | zsceglow_: i.e. your ltsp server, where no dns server actually listens on port :53
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| 13:45 | While this is a configuration problem, still, epoptes-client should be smart enough to not timeout there
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| 13:46 | So we'll try to fix it in the next version. In the meantime I put DNS_SERVER=127.0.0.1 to avoid the invalid dns
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| 13:46 | So it now works for you, if you reboot the clients...
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| 13:47 | <zsceglow_> I've rebooted two clients
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| 13:48 | <wim_> highvoltage: nothing, also no lock screen is displayed in the right upper corner menu.
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| 13:49 | <zsceglow_> One client has shutdown
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| 13:49 | <alkisg> wim_: how did you create a fat chroot on debian? which ltsp version do you have?
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| 13:49 | <zsceglow_> as I wanted it to
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| 13:51 | <alkisg> zsceglow_: you're welcome, thank you too for your patience
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| 13:51 | You may want to fix you dns issue though
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| 13:51 | <zsceglow_> How should I do that?
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| 13:52 | <alkisg> Lets see where do you have that declared...
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| 13:52 | <wim_> alkisg: whith "ltsp-build-client --dist wheezy --chroot wheezy", ltsp-server-standalone ersion is 5.3.1-1. In lts.conf LTSP_FATCLIENT=True to boot the client as a FAT CLIENT
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| 13:53 | <Hyperbyte> Guys. I have an announcement.
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| 13:53 | <highvoltage> Hyperbyte: you're going to be a dad?
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| 13:54 | <Hyperbyte> Today is my birthday! And since I love you all so much, digital e-cake for everyone!
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| 13:54 | <highvoltage> Hyperbyte: happy birthday! :)
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| 13:54 | <Hyperbyte> :):):)
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| 13:54 | <muppis> Hyperbyte, happy birthday. :)
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| 13:54 | <Hyperbyte> Thanks thanks. :D
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| 13:57 | <alkisg> Happy birthday Hyperbyte :)
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| 13:57 | <Hyperbyte> I really wish I could bring a real cake in here. :\
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| 13:57 | <alkisg> zsceglow_: so the problem was that line in your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
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| 13:57 | <Hyperbyte> Thanks Alkis!
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| 14:08 | <alkisg> (03:35:38 μμ) highvoltage: alkisg: yes, there's an invisible box around the login section in ldm. => I wonder why it's moving around when I press enter though...
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| 14:09 | <alkisg> (03:43:10 μμ) wim_: i have gnome-session (3.2.1-1 - debian wheezy) running on FAT CLIENTS but there is no lock screen button. => lock screen is probably disabled by policykit because the users don't have a password
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| 14:09 | Their passwords are not transferred from the server, so if the screen was locked, they couldn't unlock it
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| 14:09 | It was this way previously in Ubuntu too, but it broke in 12.04 and now we have to disable it by a script... I don't know why it broke on policykit/ubuntu
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| 14:13 | <highvoltage> alkisg: I'll try it out. I know there were some WM functionality left in wickedwm that we didn't want before. like, at one point you could even change desktops in LDM :)
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| 14:15 | <LuizAngioletti> !questions
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| 14:15 | <ltsp> LuizAngioletti: I do not know about 'questions', but I do know about these similar topics: 'question'
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| 14:15 | <LuizAngioletti> !question
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| 14:15 | <ltsp> LuizAngioletti: question: if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can. please also mention the linux distro and release you're using. :)
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| 14:17 | <highvoltage> hmm, lubuntu has dark logos with dark backgrounds
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| 14:18 | I guess I could give them a simple theme for now like we do with Edubuntu
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| 14:21 | <LuizAngioletti> highvoltage: I'm sorry... You work for Canonical?
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| 14:21 | Or those templates are for the LTSP project itself?
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| 14:22 | <highvoltage> LuizAngioletti: nope
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| 14:23 | LuizAngioletti: (well, nope as in, I don't work for Canonical)
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| 14:23 | LuizAngioletti: these themes go into Ubuntu
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| 14:23 | (for use with LTSP)
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| 14:23 | <LuizAngioletti> So it is for the ltsp project itself
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| 14:24 | which they port somehow to their distribution...
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| 14:24 | <highvoltage> well, it doesn't get included in LTSP upstream, it only gets included in Ubuntu
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| 14:24 | <LuizAngioletti> *or **for** their distribution
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| 14:24 | Mind if I ask how that works?
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| 14:25 | Not the technicality, but the relationship
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| 14:25 | <wim_> _alkisg: uses are authenticated over LDAP, so if I understand it correct, no lock screen possible for the moment
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| 14:25 | <highvoltage> LuizAngioletti: ask away. I'm not sure which areas you'd like to know more about
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| 14:26 | <wim_> _alkisg: or is there another way ...
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| 14:26 | <LuizAngioletti> My curiosity revolves around why would you be building a template for Ubuntu when you don't work for them specifically, and I'm assuming you work for the LTSP project itself.
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| 14:26 | <highvoltage> LuizAngioletti: in basic terms, LTSP and Ubuntu are two seperate projects, LTSP gets packaged for Ubuntu, and some derivatives of Ubuntu want their own themes. since those themes aren't useful to have in ltsp upstream, we just package it in ubuntu directly
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| 14:27 | <ogra_> LuizAngioletti, why does that have to be distinct ?
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| 14:27 | <highvoltage> LuizAngioletti: I'm involved in ubuntu and ltsp, and so are a few other people in this channel
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| 14:27 | <ogra_> everyone uses LTSP in some distro
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| 14:27 | <ogra_> so you usually even if you are working upstream on LTSP will also work on some distro you use it in
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| 14:27 | <LuizAngioletti> It's just I found it odd.
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| 14:27 | <alkisg> wim_: yes, without changing the ltsp sources you can't get screen locking working on fat clients
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| 14:27 | <LuizAngioletti> =P
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| 14:28 | <highvoltage> LuizAngioletti: nothing odd about it if you think about it :)
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| 14:28 | <LuizAngioletti> But you're right.. strange strangeness of me. =P
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| 14:28 | <ogra_> alkisg, shouldnt xscreensaver work ?
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| 14:28 | <alkisg> wim_: you could run a locker with remoteapps though
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| 14:28 | <ogra_> (its butt ugly but at least doesnt use dbus or consolekit)
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| 14:28 | <wim_> alkisg: txs, do you know if it is planned to get it working, because it can be a security issue
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| 14:29 | <alkisg> ogra_: the localapps/fat username is copied in /etc/passwd, but its password is not stored in /etc/shadow, so the local users don't have a password
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| 14:29 | <ogra_> alkisg, well, xscreensaver sdhould use pam
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| 14:29 | so if thats pointing to ldap that should work
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| 14:29 | <alkisg> ogra_: local pam still doesn't know about the fat user password
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| 14:29 | <ogra_> ah
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| 14:29 | <alkisg> ldap is configured on the server
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| 14:30 | <wim_> alkisg: sorry that's not clear to me what you mean
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| 14:30 | <alkisg> wim_: the reason it's not working is because putting the password hash to /etc/passwd would be a security issue
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| 14:30 | So it was actually disabled for security reasons
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| 14:30 | <wim_> ldap is configured on the server
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| 14:30 | <alkisg> Personally I see it from your view
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| 14:30 | <alkisg> So I do want the password hash copied locally on the fat clients
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| 14:30 | I want to implement that in the future in ldm
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| 14:30 | The other devs said it'd be ok as long as it's optional, and NOT default
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| 14:31 | <wim_> alkisg: cool
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| 14:31 | <alkisg> So we would put something like "STORE_PASSWD_HASHES=True" in lts.conf, and have working passwords
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| 14:31 | In the future another mechanism will be used (libpam_ssh) which won't have the problem at all
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| 14:32 | <ogra_> ++
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| 14:32 | <highvoltage> alkisg: I added a white radial gradient from the middle of the lubuntu wallpaper outward, it made it light enough so that it actually works.
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| 14:32 | <ogra_> go scottie !
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| 14:32 | <alkisg> ++ :) but I'm afraid he won't "go" until the next BTS :D
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| 14:32 | <alkisg> highvoltage: screenshot?
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| 14:33 | <highvoltage> alkisg: alkisg I just tried it in gimp, building the package to try in ltsp now...
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| 14:33 | <ogra_> well, getting it implemented in piecemeal is still better than not getting it at all :)
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| 14:33 | <wim_> alkisg: any idea when this could be implementd, so i can keep our security boys happy
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| 14:33 | * alkisg puts money aside for the extra lobsters that will be needed for libpam_ssh... :D | |
| 14:34 | <wim_> i will tell them
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| 14:34 | <alkisg> wim_: maybe for 12.10 or 13.04
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| 14:34 | <wim_> txs for the help
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| 14:34 | <alkisg> np
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| 14:37 | <srdjo_> When I want a new chroot, can I copy existing chroot or do I have to build a new one ?
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| 14:38 | <alkisg> wim_: actually I just had an idea, we may be able to override most common apps that require a password with remoteapps, from a step called init-ltsp.d
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| 14:38 | <alkisg> If I get time to look into it, it might be available for 12.04 too
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| 14:39 | <wim_> alkisg: that would be great
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| 14:39 | <alkisg> srdjo_: you don't need a second chroot, just use a startup script that checks the client mac and copies the appropriate file
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| 14:58 | <LuizAngioletti> I have an IRC related question: how is this main window calledw
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| 14:58 | ?
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| 14:59 | anyone?
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| 14:59 | =P
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| 15:01 | <LuizAngioletti> ok
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| 15:01 | see you later. =)
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| 15:07 | <muppis> !win32-loader
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| 15:07 | <ltsp> muppis: win32-loader: win32-loader.exe can be used to add a "PXE - Network boot" option to the Windows boot manager. It's developed for Debian and it uses gPXE/iPXE for the network booting. You can download a binary from http://ts.sch.gr/docs/kanonismoi-diadikasies/doc_download/327-ltsp-loader - (if someone can write a wiki page about it it'd be nice :))
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| 15:18 | <markit> btw, I've some PC that has Windows on it, is it possible to install a sort of GRUB with XP as first boot option, and iPXE as second?
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| 15:19 | I want those pc boot with XP by default and have 20 sec timeout
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| 15:44 | <muppis> markit, that win32-loader does it.
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| 15:44 | Though it uses ntldr at first and grub to load iPXE.
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| 16:38 | <markit> muppis: thanks a lot!
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| 16:39 | muppis: how is that you wrote the answer before I asked my question? :)
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| 16:39 | <muppis> markit, do you mean !win32-loader part?
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| 16:40 | <markit> yep
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| 16:40 | <muppis> I needed it by myself at that time. :)
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| 16:40 | <markit> "we call it, syncronicity" :)
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| 16:40 | <muppis> :)
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| 16:41 | So no problem if it helped you.
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| 16:41 | <markit> muppis: any doc about it?
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| 16:42 | is a secure source? you know, proprietary code...
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| 16:42 | mmm greek site... maybe is a greek school project?
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| 16:43 | <muppis> It is secure. It's just little tweaked from original debian win32-loader propably by alkisg.
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| 16:43 | <markit> oh, reading your previous message more carefully
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| 16:43 | also the missing wiki part :)
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| 16:43 | <muppis> :D
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| 16:44 | <markit> so is just a matter to run it inside Wincrap and next reboot I will have a grub with ipxe option, let's test (later) in a VM
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| 16:44 | <markit> (so no need to resize partitions and so on? so good!)
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| 16:45 | <muppis> Yes, but still ntldr menu, not grub. Grub is chainloaded after ntldr just to load ipxe.
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| 16:51 | <markit> muppis: mmm it warns that at next installation will ask to resize win partition
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| 16:52 | I thought was able to read win file system and run ipxe from it
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| 16:52 | <muppis> markit, you choosed ipxe?
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| 16:52 | <markit> yes
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| 16:52 | <muppis> Then just ignore and reboot. :)
| |
| 16:52 | <markit> maybe is a generic intall message and does not do it? yep :)
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| 16:52 | <muppis> It's generic.
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| 16:53 | <markit> I see... great! :)
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| 16:53 | wondering how to fine-tune timeout or default option, but probably google knows, thanks again
| |
| 16:54 | <muppis> Files are located in /win32-loader folder in Windows root.
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| 16:55 | Folder really is an ackward naming for a directory..
| |
| 16:56 | <markit> well, you have desktop...
| |
| 16:56 | recycle bin...
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| 16:57 | <muppis> I know there is a connection between those namings, but still..
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| 17:00 | <alkisg> markit: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/289022
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| 17:01 | <markit> alkisg: too kind :)
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| 17:01 | <highvoltage> alkisg: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jonathan/files/precise/ldm/ldm-lubuntu.png
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| 17:01 | <alkisg> highvoltage: I think you should change your primary job and become a designer ;)
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| 17:02 | <highvoltage> alkisg: :D
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| 17:02 | <alkisg> markit: so in the end you'll end up in this windows dialog for configuring the boot timeout: http://alkisg.mysch.gr/steki/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3665.0;attach=2363;image
| |
| 17:02 | <highvoltage> alkisg: I'll go ahead and upload it then
| |
| 17:03 | <alkisg> highvoltage: good, I'll put it in the fat clients plugin
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| 17:04 | (and in the artwork plugin too)
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| 17:04 | <highvoltage> alkisg: how does it do that again? does it put the LDM_THEME=lubuntu in lts.conf?
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| 17:04 | <alkisg> No, it just autodetects the server -desktop package and selects the same variant for the ldm theme
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| 17:04 | <highvoltage> ah
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| 17:04 | <alkisg> lubuntu-desktop => ldm-lubuntu-theme etc
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| 17:31 | <markit> alkisg: is ltsp in 12.04 beta working good enough? I would jump to it for my further experiment and delivery, so I can test kde 4.8 too
| |
| 17:32 | hope there are some info about news and different setup, or will I have to bore you a lot?
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| 17:32 | <alkisg> markit: yes, it's working pretty well
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| 17:34 | <markit> ok, tonight I will install it in a VM and test... hope to find you around :)
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| 17:34 | <alkisg> markit: if you want, you can also build an ltsp chroot with a VM instead of using ltsp-build-client ;)
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| 17:34 | (for fat chroots, that is)
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| 17:35 | <markit> ehm, how? :) has your changes been included in 12.04?
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| 17:35 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 17:35 | You just install your OS normally in a VM, and that's a fat chroot
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| 17:35 | You can even copy your "server" installation before installing ltsp-server, that is
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| 17:35 | <markit> so great! where the doc?
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| 17:36 | <alkisg> Whats that?
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| 17:36 | <markit> (copy? dd into a raw?)
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| 17:36 | hahahaha
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| 17:36 | <alkisg> :D
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| 17:36 | <markit> read the source :)
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| 17:36 | <alkisg> dd, rsync, whatever suits you
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| 17:36 | <markit> I've never understood properly the rsync stuff, someone says is not good for perfect clone (links problem or don't remember)
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| 17:37 | but raw is not NBD compressed image
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| 17:37 | <alkisg> rsync is fine
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| 17:37 | <markit> I'm confused... and I've to run shortly
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| 17:37 | <alkisg> OK, cu later
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| 17:37 | <markit> can I beg for a wiki page about all this?
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| 17:37 | <alkisg> Nope, not at this point, unless you're willing to write it :D
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| 17:38 | * alkisg still has a lot of coding to do in time for 12.04 | |
| 17:38 | <markit> oh, better you use your time for code, thanks a lot for your work
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| 17:38 | I'll test "the old way" now
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| 17:38 | bye
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| 17:38 | <alkisg> bb
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| 17:59 | <alkisg> srdjo: you don't need to get the client mac
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| 17:59 | It goes like this:
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| 17:59 | In lts.conf, you set:
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| 17:59 | [mac:address]
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| 17:59 | USE_THAT_PRINTER=true
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| 17:59 | On the client, on the script, you do:
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| 18:00 | <alkisg1> Now that works because on each client "getltscfg -a" is ran, and it checks the client mac address, and sets the vars from the appropriate lts.conf section
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| 18:01 | <srdjo> the script code is missing :)
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| 18:04 | <srdjo> @alksig1 can you repost the script part ?
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| 18:11 | alkisg1 is now known as alkisg | |
| 18:11 | <alkisg> srdjo: <tab> autocompletes the user nicknames so that you get them right ;)
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| 18:11 | I didn't write a script, it was just an example structure
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| 18:12 | <srdjo> nothing got posted :)
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| 18:12 | <alkisg> That "if" that I wrote was part of the script you need
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| 18:12 | Ah sorry
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| 18:12 | My client didn't inform me that I got disconnected then :D
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| 18:12 | (07:59:25 μμ) alkisg: On the client, on the script, you do:
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| 18:12 | (07:59:41 μμ) alkisg: if [ -n "$USE_THAT_PRINTER" ]; then
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| 18:12 | (07:59:46 μμ) alkisg: ...do the cups thing
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| 18:12 | (07:59:47 μμ) alkisg: fi
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| 18:13 | <srdjo> thats all I needed - a way to recognize clients
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| 18:14 | If I had this 5 hours ago (the time I googled it) I would be done by now
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| 18:14 | thanks a lot
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| 18:14 | <alkisg> You could have asked that question here :) You're welcome
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| 18:21 | <highvoltage> Rejected:
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| 18:21 | Signer is not permitted to upload to the component 'main'.
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| 18:22 | stgraber: can I email the updated ldm themes to you for sponsoring?
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| 18:22 | <stgraber> highvoltage: sure, if you have all the paperwork done and approved already
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| 18:23 | <highvoltage> stgraber: is it necessary for something that doesn't change anything by default?
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| 18:24 | <stgraber> highvoltage: depends what's in the package ;) I heard you mention lubuntu earlier so that's why I'm asking for paperwork ;)
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| 18:24 | <highvoltage> stgraber: it's a lubuntu theme added ot the ldm-ubuntu-themes package
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| 18:25 | <stgraber> ok, which makes the theme different for someone installing ltsp-server on lubuntu I guess? so that at least needs a UIFe
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| 18:26 | hmm, actually I'm failing to find the code doing that, we might have dropped it from trunk ;)
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| 18:26 | so if it's just an extra binary that's not installed by anything currently in the archive, just a FFe would be good
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| 18:27 | <highvoltage> it will select the lubuntu theme when somone builds a lubuntu fat client though
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| 18:27 | <stgraber> does it? I grepped through ltsp-trunk and couldn't find that bit of code
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| 18:28 | if it does, then we need a UIFe as it's changing the default UI for LTSP on Lubuntu
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| 18:28 | <alkisg> ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu/030-artwork
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| 18:28 | <highvoltage> 11:58 < alkisg> highvoltage: good, I'll put it in the fat clients plugin
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| 18:28 | <alkisg> (to be changed slightly)
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| 18:28 | <highvoltage> ah, I guess alkisg is about to add it then
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| 18:29 | <alkisg> So actually that would affect thin clients too
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| 18:29 | "for cdd in ed x k" would grow a "l" there
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| 18:31 | <highvoltage> for the next cycle I should probably update the kubuntu and xubuntu ones too (they're ancient and not that great)
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| 18:33 | <highvoltage> stgraber: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ldm-ubuntu-themes/+bug/950157
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| 18:33 | stgraber: what else do I need to do?
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| 18:33 | stgraber: does it need any particular tags?
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| 18:35 | <stgraber> highvoltage: I changed the title, ideally, get one of the Lubuntu guys to comment saying that it's not in their documentation or screenshots anywhere
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| 18:35 | <stgraber> highvoltage: and subscribe ubuntu-release for approval
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| 18:35 | highvoltage: you can also nag #ubuntu-release to get things approved faster
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| 18:35 | <hughessd> hey all, ive been running 10.04 LTS and am excited about the new LTS coming out next month. Anyone here been using 12.04 already? How's it been running?
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| 18:35 | <alkisg> It's running ok
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| 18:36 | stgraber: could you upload a new ltsp version in a ppa?
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| 18:36 | (with the files in trunk, for easier testing..)
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| 18:41 | <stgraber> alkisg: yep, will do that later today, currently trying to fix ubiquity exploding because of gtk...
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| 18:47 | <alkisg> Ouch
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| 19:17 | <alkisg> Meh -f (force) is needed in openvt, as plymouth is using vt7
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| 19:18 | Will commit in a few hours
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| 19:18 | <muppis> I think founded little glitch from ldm...
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| 19:19 | Pressing alt+7 gives a local root prompt
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| 19:22 | <epoptes_user9> hey
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| 19:22 | i like to use epoptes in a XDMCP server
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| 19:22 | can anyone help me?
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| 19:22 | <highvoltage> omg an epoptes user
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| 19:22 | they've found us
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| 19:22 | <epoptes_user9> highvoltage :)
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| 19:23 | <highvoltage> epoptes_user9: you're in luch, the author of epoptes hangs out here and if you stick around a bit, then he could probably give you an answer
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| 19:23 | <epoptes_user9> highvoltage: thanks ;) i'll back later
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| 19:28 | <srdjo> what option can i use in ltsp.conf to mount real home directory ? (LOCAL_REAL_HOME is not working since I am not using LOCAL_APPS - FAT client) ?
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| 19:28 | * vagrantc knows that epoptes documentation points to #ltsp as an irc channel | |
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| 19:38 | <muppis> Can this be a security issue or just a regular bug?
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| 19:40 | <vagrantc> muppis: what distro?
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| 19:40 | muppis: what lts.conf settings?
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| 19:40 | muppis: what version of ldm ?
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| 19:42 | <muppis> Ubuntu 11.10, ldm 2.2.4, lts.conf got ldm_directx=true and screen_07=ldm
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| 19:42 | <vagrantc> odd.
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| 19:43 | * vagrantc looks into reproducing on debiian | |
| 19:43 | <muppis> alt+7 give root prompt, alt+1 gives login
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| 19:43 | <vagrantc> and ldm is running?
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| 19:43 | <muppis> Sure.
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| 19:44 | * vagrantc wonders which tty ldm is running on | |
| 19:44 | <muppis> It's happens inside ldm
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| 19:44 | <vagrantc> it's a default install?
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| 19:44 | <muppis> Afaik
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| 19:45 | Of course it's default because I generated it today. :)
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| 19:45 | Happens even without lts.conf
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| 19:46 | It's a 32 bit client. I test with 64 bit, if it boots to ltsp.
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| 19:51 | <blake> IRC newbie, forgive any breech in protocol in advance.
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| 19:51 | <vagrantc> ask away, let us know what distro and release you're talking about :)
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| 19:52 | people will respond when they get the chance, so patience can be a good thing
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| 19:52 | <blake> Having trouble with reconfiguring thin-client menus (ubuntu 10.04LTS)
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| 19:53 | <blake> Want to remove items without uninstalling software=manually edit thin-client application menus?
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| 19:53 | <vagrantc> muppis: i don't have a chance to test that at the moment, but yes, that sounds like an ugly security issue!
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| 19:53 | stgraber: ^^
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| 19:53 | <muppis> My 64 bit wont boot. tftp times out.
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| 19:55 | <stgraber> mgariepy: ^ (blake)
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| 19:55 | <muppis> http://m.muppis.net/20120308_215420.jpg
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| 20:03 | <vagrantc> muppis: alt-f7, or ctrl-alt-f7 ?
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| 20:03 | <muppis> vagrantc, alt-7
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| 20:03 | Then press enter
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| 20:03 | <vagrantc> muppis: a graphical root prompt, or a GUI one?
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| 20:03 | er, or a console one?
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| 20:03 | <muppis> vagrantc, console
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| 20:04 | <vagrantc> wwm/wwm-defaults.h:#define DEF_KEY_GOTO_VDESK_6 XK_7
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| 20:04 | wwm/wwm-defaults.h:#define DEF_KEY_GOTO_VDESK_7 XK_8
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| 20:04 | that's in ldm-trunk...
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| 20:04 | probably has to do with using scotty's evilwm
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| 20:04 | <muppis> vagrantc, like this: http://m.muppis.net/20120308_214724.jpg
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| 20:05 | Actually happens with alt-2 to alt-7
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| 20:06 | <vagrantc> this probably applies to ldm 2.2.x
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| 20:14 | <highvoltage> wickedwm
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| 20:31 | <vagrantc> oh, right. wicked
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| 20:31 | eesh.
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| 20:32 | <GodFather> stgraber, ping
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| 20:32 | <vagrantc> this is why we should run ldm as non-root...
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| 20:33 | <GodFather> vagrantc, Jim McQuillan and I (Ron Colcernian) want to send you an email what's your email address?
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| 20:34 | <stgraber> GodFather: pong
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| 20:35 | <GodFather> stgraber, Jim and I want to send an email to you what's your current email address?
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| 20:35 | <stgraber> GodFather: stgraber@ubuntu.com
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| 20:38 | <GodFather> thanks, I'll send you an email in a moment
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| 21:15 | <muppis> Where client detects is image updated?
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| 21:16 | Or tries to dtect?
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| 21:19 | <||cw> it doesn't?
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| 21:20 | <muppis> It does even it shouldn't.
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| 21:20 | <||cw> not sure what you mean then
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| 21:21 | pxe client nbd connect to the image at boot, and that's it. they don't "detect" anything
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| 21:21 | <muppis> It claims image has been updated just right after boot.
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| 21:21 | <||cw> is this a fat client?
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| 21:21 | <muppis> Thin
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| 21:21 | <||cw> what image?
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| 21:21 | pastebin the message?
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| 21:21 | maybe some lines before an after for context?
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| 21:22 | <muppis> I can frop an image.
| |
| 21:22 | *drop
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| 21:23 | If I cancel it, everything works fine.
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| 21:24 | http://m.muppis.net/20120308_232329.jpg
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| 21:24 | <||cw> odd, never seen that
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| 21:25 | <muppis> Me neither.
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| 21:25 | <||cw> does it have a lcoal disk?
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| 21:25 | <muppis> Yes, but contains CP.. Sorry, XP.
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| 21:25 | <||cw> are you sure? :)
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| 21:26 | <muppis> Sure. :)
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| 21:33 | <vagrantc> there's a hook in LDM to check for new disk images and reboot the computer.
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| 21:39 | <muppis> Is it under /usr/share/ldm/rc.d?
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| 21:39 | (In Ubuntu)
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| 21:48 | <||cw> vagrantc: if you are pxe booting the system, that applies?
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| 21:48 | as in, no local disk?
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| 21:51 | <muppis> Yet strange things happens. I used discovered root prompt to edit local files and then logged in. root prompt left opened and now available for logged in user.
| |
| 21:54 | <||cw> well, yeah
| |
| 21:54 | physical access security
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| 21:56 | <vagrantc> ||cw: pxe is irrelevent to that happening with LDM.
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| 21:56 | this whole irc channel is about booting without a disk :)
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| 21:56 | <||cw> what's it updating?
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| 21:57 | <vagrantc> the image served over the network.
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| 21:57 | but you shouldn't get that on a fresh boot unless something is wrong.
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| 21:57 | anyways, gotta run!
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| 21:58 | <||cw> so ldm monitors the image produced by ltsp-update-image and merges it somehow?
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| 21:58 | <vagrantc> it doesn't merge it, it just reboots the thin client so it gets a new image.
| |
| 21:59 | later...
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| 22:04 | <||cw> but that doens't look like a reboot...
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| 23:19 | <hughessd> hi again, has anyone had problems with thinclients muting the sound on boot?
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| 23:20 | sound applet in the notification area flashed the bar, but then blanks out and says simply "Mute", which is greyed out, and "Sound Preferences".
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| 23:20 | ....
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