IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 8 December 2008 (all times are UTC)
| 00:05 | <warren> Ryan52: could you implement an optional "System default dmrc", if defined, use that, if not otherwised defined in the user's dmrc?
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| 00:05 | Ryan52: not everyone needs it, but I do. I currently have NO WAY of setting a system default that is non-GNOME.
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| 00:07 | <Ryan52> hrm. doesn't ldm have some way of setting a default session? 0.o
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| 00:08 | anyway, ya, it'll be easy to do that.
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| 00:10 | <warren> Ryan52: dmrc can contain language and session?
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| 00:10 | <Ryan52> hrm. I dunno...
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| 00:10 | * Ryan52 wonders if there's some specification for this | |
| 00:10 | <Ryan52> I was just doing session, and basing it off of what kdm put in my .dmrc..
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| 00:13 | <johnny> hello warren
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| 00:13 | and Ryan52
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| 00:14 | <Ryan52> hiya johnny
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| 00:14 | <johnny> Ryan52, so i guess you know my friend joe..
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| 00:14 | or at least have met him
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| 00:15 | i forced him to finally get involved there a bit
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| 00:15 | <Ryan52> who? what? huh??? :)
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| 00:17 | * Ryan52 wonders who this joe person is... | |
| 00:18 | <johnny> he does tech support stuff
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| 00:18 | afaict
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| 00:18 | i guess he's not very vocal
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| 00:18 | F-GT has joined #ltsp | |
| 00:18 | <F-GT> ONLY $319 AFTER $59 CASHBACK!
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| 00:18 | NEXT DAY DISPATCH
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| 00:18 | Acer Aspire One Linux Edition
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| 00:18 | Intel Atom Processor, 8.9” LED Backlit Screen
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| 00:18 | Ultraportable, Light and Compact. Weighs just 985 grams, under 3cm thick! Only available in Blue Colour.
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| 00:18 | doh
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| 00:18 | wrong chan
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| 00:19 | <Ryan52> johnny, ohhhhhhh. I hide from tech support :)
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| 00:19 | * Ryan52 might know who he is.. | |
| 00:20 | <johnny> he knows his stuff about linux.. but he's not a programmer yet
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| 00:20 | <warren> Ryan52: this is what my ~/.dmrc has
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| 00:20 | [Desktop]
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| 00:20 | Session=gnome
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| 00:20 | Language=en_US.utf8
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| 00:20 | Layout=us
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| 00:21 | keyboard layout too it seems
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| 00:21 | <Ryan52> warren: oh, ok. I will do Language too. thanks.
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| 00:21 | <warren> yeah, keyboard layout is HARDE
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| 00:21 | HARD
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| 00:22 | <warren> Ryan52: will your implementation handle writing a new ~/.dmrc if they choose something different?
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| 00:23 | <Ryan52> yup
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| 00:24 | <warren> Ryan52: will it ask if they want to save that as the new default?
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| 00:24 | <Ryan52> yes.
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| 00:24 | <catalystduck> anyone think they can help with a client display issue?
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| 00:25 | <warren> Ryan52: if you use the exact strings as gdm or kdm, you could copy all of their translations for that string as well, making your job easier.
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| 00:25 | <johnny> don't ask to ask..
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| 00:25 | <warren> Ryan52: check out gdm, I suspect it has more translations
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| 00:25 | <johnny> just ask your question catalystduck
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| 00:26 | dirigeant is now known as MeW_away | |
| 00:27 | <catalystduck> ok I have a client computer formerly installed with ubuntu; I have the original xorg.conf from that installation and am trying to use it to configure the ltsp client
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| 00:31 | can I just use this file to configure the client's display?
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| 00:35 | <johnny> do you have to?
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| 00:35 | it should work without such a thing
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| 00:38 | <catalystduck> I had to edit the xorg.conf when I had ubuntu installed on the machine (it's old) to get the resoloution right
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| 00:42 | <johnny> well.. does it work right with ltsp or not? :)
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| 00:43 | <catalystduck> it works but the display is crappy, that's what I'm trying to fix
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| 00:44 | <johnny> ok.. just making sure the problem didn't automatically resolve it self before you go hacking
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| 00:44 | well.. just copy the file into the chroot, run ltsp-update-image
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| 00:45 | and then edit lts.conf for it
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| 00:45 | [workstation ip or mac or hostname]
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| 00:45 | X_CONF=/path/to/conf
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| 00:45 | /var/lib/tftpboot/i386/
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| 00:47 | <catalystduck> that's where I'm confused I've googled for this problem and been told to edit lts.conf files in various locations, some don't exist
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| 00:49 | <johnny> there's 2 locations on ubuntu
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| 00:49 | one is deprecated
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| 00:49 | that is in /etc/lts.conf in the chroot
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| 00:49 | which tells you so
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| 00:50 | <catalystduck> and how do I run ltsp-update-image?
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| 00:50 | is that the command itself?
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| 00:50 | <johnny> yes
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| 00:51 | <catalystduck> ok thanks
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| 01:05 | <catalystduck> johnny, where do I need to put the xorg.conf file?
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| 01:27 | <johnny> wherever
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| 01:28 | in the chroot
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| 01:35 | it's 2:30.. i gotta attempt to hit the sack..bbl
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| 01:39 | <catalystduck> Thanks for the help Johnny
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| 02:43 | <Appiah> "Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. The reason it is being held: Message has a suspicious header"
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| 02:43 | What's so suspicious about my header =(
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| 03:12 | <eric> hi!
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| 03:12 | eric is now known as Guest98923 | |
| 03:12 | <Guest98923> need help to make local devides work with NX-LTSP5
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| 03:13 | My ltsp server is functional (debian-etch). Local devices work fine with ldm.
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| 03:14 | But I need to plug 60 thin clients on a 100Mb network, so NX is indispensable
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| 03:14 | Login with NX works
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| 03:16 | I'm trying to write a script (nx-localdev) called by startnx in screen.d
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| 03:18 | It seems localdev managing is initialized by the ldm script. Which part of it must I keep ?
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| 03:29 | <Guest98923> Is there anybody here who can answer my question ?
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| 03:37 | <Appiah> in short you're trying to enable localdev in nx-ltsp5 ?
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| 03:39 | <Guest98923> Appiah : yes, that's it
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| 03:43 | I've been on : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev page
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| 03:44 | Every step is OK until step 3. in step 4, they tell to type the command :
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| 03:44 | ssh -X -S /var/run/ldm_socket_vt7_192.168.0.254 192.168.0.254 "/usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter /tmp add"
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| 03:45 | and to post the error messages on irc
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| 03:45 | In my case, it first ask for root password (what it shouldn't do, of course)
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| 03:46 | then it says : Error: /tmp/.root-ltspfs/tmp is not mounted
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| 03:47 | (if it can help debugging)
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| 05:41 | <russell_nash> release: Ubuntu Hardy. I have a problem with a blank screen and mouse pointer on my client after login. I have posted on mnay forums and reda much of the documenttaion
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| 05:41 | oops, typos
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| 05:43 | what i meant to say is that I have searched far and wide and nobody seems to have documented an error which is quite the same, can anybody offer any suggestions?
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| 05:46 | <Appiah> that you force the X settings
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| 05:46 | in lts.conf
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| 05:49 | <russell_nash> thanks for replying, what exactly do you mean, I have made many adjustments to lts.conf e.g. XSERVER auto, vesa , color depth 24, 16.
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| 05:49 | <Appiah> try changing them
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| 05:50 | a lower resoultion , a forced mouse device , etc
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| 05:50 | see if it changes anything
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| 05:50 | Is this LTSP 4.x or 5 ?
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| 05:55 | <russell_nash> incidentally, my ltsp worked fine for months, then one day stopped, i made no changes except for Ubuntu automatic updates. it is version 5.0.40 according to synaptic package manager. ok, i haven't tried resolution and mouse adjustments, although the mouse appears to be working perfectly, I just never get into the x session. My xsession-errors log says that "another SSH agent is running" and Fatal IO error 2 (no such file or
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| 06:12 | <generalsnus> Is there any way of viewing a LTSP session? like remote desktop into a thinclient session..
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| 06:19 | <Appiah> just viewing or controling?
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| 06:21 | <generalsnus> both..would be nice
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| 06:23 | <Appiah> maybe there's a feature in xdmcp?
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| 06:23 | <generalsnus> usage, would be to troubleshoot user problems.. so we dont have to run all over school.. just tell the students to press "ok" button..and such
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| 06:24 | xdmcp?
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| 06:24 | <Appiah> ye i understand , just like in Windows Terminal services / citrix
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| 06:24 | actully I have no idea if such feature exists
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| 06:24 | would be great
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| 06:24 | <generalsnus> hmm
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| 06:26 | <alkisg> generalsnus: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/iTalc
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| 06:27 | <Appiah> ok
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| 06:28 | <klausade> generalsnus: you use ssh or xdmcp?
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| 07:03 | <generalsnus> looking at italc now..
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| 07:05 | <Appiah> klausade: is there a way with xdmcp ?
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| 07:08 | <klausade> Appiah: there is a way with both, it's just different.
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| 07:08 | <Appiah> Could you explain both of them or do you have a link to some howto?
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| 07:11 | <klausade> Appiah: have a look at teachertool and controlaula.
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| 07:12 | <Appiah> thanks
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| 07:37 | <kriegaffe> hello, is this the correct channel for questions about ltsp?
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| 07:38 | I'm looking for a howto on the localapp side of ltsp5 (xubuntu 8.04.1 based)
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| 07:39 | And I found a lot of interesting stuff (been working on it for several weeks now)
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| 07:39 | <Appiah> isent much of a howto...
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| 07:40 | <kriegaffe> but still when I start any application on the thin client it doesn't show up in "ps" on the client
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| 07:40 | <Appiah> copy the ltsp-localapps script to /usr/bin , chroot into the ltsp client envoirment
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| 07:40 | install apps , exit , update the image
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| 07:40 | <kriegaffe> I am confused: do I need nfs with the ltsp5 system for localapps to work?
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| 07:40 | <Appiah> start application with ltsp-localapps script
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| 07:40 | no
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| 07:41 | <kriegaffe> ok, the ltsp-localapps script resides somewhere on the server I assume, I'll check if I can find it. Thanks! (the chroot install is ok)
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| 07:41 | <Appiah> /usr/share/ltsp or somehting like that
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| 07:41 | <kriegaffe> ok. thanks
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| 07:48 | <kriegaffe> I found a few scripts in the /usr/share/ltsp/scripts directory but none seem related to localapps (it's 3 scripts about popularity-data and daemon wrapping)
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| 07:48 | my ltsp version is this one: 5.0.40~bzr20080212-0ubuntu7
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| 07:50 | the lts.conf in /var/lib/.../tftboot/i386/ has the localdev, local_apps, local_storage all set to True.
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| 07:50 | <generalsnus> I have managed to get "student-control-panel" to work, i can see users desktop with the x11vnc.. but how can i control the desktops?
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| 08:09 | <pscheie> what is the name of the unified rpm repository effort?
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| 08:36 | <polytan> hi
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| 08:42 | <Appiah> kriegaffe hold on
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| 08:45 | <polytan> I'm installing ltsp on a gentoo system
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| 08:46 | (one server and one netboot node currenlty)
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| 08:47 | <nubae> johnny: is the guy to speak to... don't know if he's around....
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| 08:47 | <Appiah> kriegaffe: /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples/ltsp-localapps
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| 08:48 | <polytan> is there any gentoo dev here ?
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| 08:48 | I just whant to know what how to follow once I've compiled and install all program to make the client using ltsp instead of normal X connections
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| 08:48 | want*
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| 08:48 | <Appiah> you dont need a dev for that
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| 08:49 | <polytan> lovely :)
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| 08:49 | <Appiah> ...
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| 08:49 | <polytan> simply the ltsp official doc ?
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| 08:49 | <Appiah> have you tried it?
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| 08:50 | <polytan> no
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| 08:50 | <Appiah> the "offical" is not LTSP 5 if im correct
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| 08:50 | <polytan> I've just finished to install a netboot system (it runs)
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| 08:51 | and to compile the ltsp-server on the server and ltsp-client on the client
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| 08:53 | <nubae> the offical IS LTSP 5
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| 08:53 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 08:53 | <Appiah> nubae: do you have a link to this offical document?
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| 08:53 | <sbalneav> !doco
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| 08:53 | <ltspbot`> sbalneav: "doco" is you can find the link to the latest, and most current upstream documentation at: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 08:53 | <nubae> !docs
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| 08:53 | <ltspbot`> nubae: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 08:53 | <Appiah> for gentoo that is
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| 08:54 | <nubae> talk to Johnny... he should know
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| 08:54 | <Appiah> :D
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| 08:54 | <Gadi> !s
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| 08:54 | <ltspbot`> Gadi: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 08:54 | <polytan> the thing is that I've read the official doc
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| 08:55 | <Appiah> which offical doc polytan ?
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| 08:55 | <polytan> but there are a few specific things on gentoo (init script) and I don't want to destroy to many things
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| 08:55 | the doc in the topic : http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 08:55 | <Appiah> ok
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| 08:56 | <polytan> for exemple, there are ltsp-client and ltsp-client-setup init script
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| 08:56 | and I don't really know which one need the other
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| 08:56 | <sbalneav> Well, that's the UPSTREAM documentation
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| 08:57 | <CAN-o-SPAM> hi all
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| 08:57 | has anyone ever purchased a pre-configured linux OS server from anywhere?
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| 08:57 | <sbalneav> if gentoo's got specific stuff, it'll be up to them to either a: provide me with some bits so I can stick it in the upstream docs, or b) branch the upsteam and provide their own docs package.
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| 08:57 | <polytan> yes
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| 08:57 | <sbalneav> CAN-o-SPAM: Not I.
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| 08:58 | <Appiah> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/ltsp.xml wonder if this is up to date
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| 08:58 | no its 4.1
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| 08:58 | "/opt/ltsp-4.1/i386"
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| 08:58 | <sbalneav> No it's not.
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| 08:58 | * Appiah takes a guess | |
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| 09:02 | <nubae> is debian-edu still based on 4.2?
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| 09:02 | or has it migrated to 5?
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| 09:08 | <polytan> I don't understand what to do to use ltsp opn my client
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| 09:09 | I can netboot, the OS starts, I can have X and use xdmcp on the server
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| 09:09 | <polytan> but I don't understand how to put ltsp upon that
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| 09:09 | <Appiah> have the client connect to the xserver ?
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| 09:10 | ldm (?!)
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| 09:10 | <kriegaffe> Appiah : thanks! I'm now reading your info
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| 09:11 | <polytan> Appiah, no, only using gdm and xdmcp
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| 09:11 | I've read ldm in the doc this morning ;)
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| 09:12 | I'm installing ldm
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| 09:13 | <nubae> ltsp 5 = ldm
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| 09:14 | <kriegaffe> Apiah : the /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples/ltsp-localapps is not on my system but I'm looking
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| 09:14 | <polytan> ok
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| 09:15 | <Appiah> kriegaffe: what are you running again?
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| 09:17 | <kriegaffe> Appiah: I have the 5.0.40 on xubuntu ltsp-server installed with ltspfs etc. I found a full client docu in the /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server called "workstation"
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| 09:19 | but no ltsp-localapps script anywhere. I tried with find / -iname, also looked for the file using apt-file search
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| 09:19 | <Appiah> >_>
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| 09:21 | <sbalneav> kriegaffe: Which version of xubuntu?
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| 09:21 | <kriegaffe> it is xubuntu 8.04.1 lts
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| 09:21 | <sbalneav> Localapps wasn't in hardy
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| 09:22 | <kriegaffe> ah, ok so I have to upgrade first
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| 09:22 | <sbalneav> You'd have to go to Intrepid to get Localapps
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| 09:23 | <kriegaffe> maybe I just make the ltsp clients fat with the "workstation" info. They can have that pressure since it is mostly firefox that will be used there.
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| 09:23 | intrepid is not an option since I want/need Longtermsupport
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| 09:24 | I recently did a very painfull upgrade from 6.06 to 8.04 systems (client and server) due to my limited knowledge. A "Support-forever" distro will certainly catch my interest!
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| 09:26 | Thanks for the help.
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| 09:31 | <kriegaffe> Does anybody know if there exists a chance that ubuntu hardy will support localapps? Does this just need an upgrade of the current 5.0.40 ltsp-server package?
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| 09:31 | or is there a specific kernel needed?
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| 09:32 | <sbalneav> kriegaffe: "Support-forever"'s going to be kind of difficult.
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| 09:33 | kriegaffe: There might, if there's enough interest and/or time by some of the developers, be a backport of a more recent LTSP version to Hardy.
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| 09:34 | <nubae> anyone know the numbers for worldwide ltsp deployments?
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| 09:35 | <sbalneav> nubae: Not lateley
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| 09:35 | We used to think it was somewhere in the millions range, back in the 4.2 days.
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| 09:35 | That was when people came to LTSP to get it.
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| 09:35 | Now that it's in distro's, it's going to be much harder.
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| 09:36 | To figure out who all's running it, I mean.
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| 09:36 | <cliebow> let's do a Gates..and forcew it to report home
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| 09:36 | <nubae> hmmm I'm writing an article for olpcnews.com, I'd like a realistic number :-)
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| 09:36 | spain and Japan have the largest deployments right=
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| 09:36 | ?
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| 09:37 | <cliebow> Japan??
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| 09:37 | <nubae> yeah big Fedora deployment iirc
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| 09:37 | <sbalneav> Telecentros in Brasil has like 150,000 or so
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| 09:38 | I can personally speak for 185 :)
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| 09:38 | <CAN-o-SPAM> nubae: check this out: http://www.frappr.com/k12ltsp
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| 09:38 | <sbalneav> They have a "Linux Counter" project, we need an "LTSP counter" :)
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| 09:39 | University of Amazonia has several thousand.
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| 09:39 | <nubae> yeah... Brazil must be a biggie...
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| 09:39 | I hope I can afford to attend the meet there...
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| 10:01 | <sbalneav> I just posted a question to -develop, I'd like to hear the opinions of anyone and everyone.
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| 10:01 | About the scope of the docs
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| 10:22 | <jammcq> good morning #ltsp
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| 10:22 | <rjune> howdy jammcq
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| 10:23 | <jammcq> hey
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| 10:24 | <Blinny> Morning.
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| 10:24 | How does one 'fix' the time displayed by LDM? Do I need to adjust the tz rules in the chroot?
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| 10:24 | Or is it dependent upon the hardware clock of the individual client?
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| 10:25 | <jammcq> ummm... LDM displays the time?
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| 10:26 | <sbalneav> Blinny: It's dependent upon the hardware clock in the client.
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| 10:26 | Morning jammcq
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| 10:26 | <jammcq> sbalneav: hey
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| 10:26 | <rjune> !s
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| 10:26 | <ltspbot`> rjune: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 10:26 | <Blinny> sbalneav: Normally you'd set an offset, specifying whether the hardware clock is set to UTC. Do you know how to do so in the chroot?
| |
| 10:27 | <rjune> ltspbot`: help
| |
| 10:27 | <ltspbot`> rjune: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
| |
| 10:29 | <sbalneav> Blinny: Same whay you'd do so on the server. tzconfig or something like that.
| |
| 10:29 | <Blinny> I think in RH-based distros it'd be a boolean in /etc/sysconfig/clock (UTC=false)
| |
| 10:29 | sbalneav: OK thanks I'll check it out.
| |
| 10:29 | <sbalneav> rjune: Looking for something in particular with ltspbot?
| |
| 10:29 | <rjune> yeah, how to make a command
| |
| 10:30 | sbalneav: jim needs a !j :-)
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| 10:31 | mccann has joined #ltsp | |
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| 10:33 | <sbalneav> rjune: ltspbot: learn j as blahblahblah
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| 10:36 | ltspbot`: help learn
| |
| 10:36 | <ltspbot`> sbalneav: (learn [<channel>] <key> as <value>) -- Associates <key> with <value>. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. The word 'as' is necessary to separate the key from the value. It can be changed to another word via the learnSeparator registry value.
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| 10:37 | <rjune> !j
| |
| 10:37 | <ltspbot`> rjune: "j" is jamcq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| |
| 10:37 | <rjune> !j
| |
| 10:37 | <ltspbot`> rjune: "j" is (#1) jamcq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, or (#2) jammcq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| |
| 10:38 | <rjune> !sigh
| |
| 10:38 | <ltspbot`> rjune: Error: "sigh" is not a valid command.
| |
| 10:38 | <sbalneav> Now you've got it in there twice
| |
| 10:39 | <rjune> !j
| |
| 10:39 | <ltspbot`> rjune: "j" is jammcq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| |
| 10:39 | <rjune> there.
| |
| 10:39 | sheesh
| |
| 10:39 | <sbalneav> !topics
| |
| 10:39 | <ltspbot`> sbalneav: "topics" is To get a list of topics, type ltspbot: factoids search --values
| |
| 10:39 | <rjune> sbalneav: I got oit worked out. finally
| |
| 10:40 | <sbalneav> ltspbot`: factoids search --values
| |
| 10:40 | <ltspbot`> sbalneav: 'ltsp', 'sbalneav', 'icewm', 'frappr', 'wiki', 'debian', 'edubuntu', 'dhcpd', 'greyscreen', 'ltsp42', 'localdev', 'localdev', 'localdev', 'localdev', 'checklist', 'muekow', 'bestltspdistro', 'serversize', 'wireless', 'sound', 'topics', 'integration', 'lts.conf', 'pastebot', 'bootfloppy', 'ltsp5', 'tarball', 'tarball', 'download', 'monkeys', 'ogra', 'nfs', 'nfsnotresp', 'js', 's', (1 more message)
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| 10:40 | <rjune> !sbalneav
| |
| 10:40 | <ltspbot`> rjune: "sbalneav" is Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| |
| 10:40 | <rjune> neat
| |
| 10:40 | !ogra
| |
| 10:40 | <ltspbot`> rjune: "ogra" is ogra!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| |
| 10:40 | <sbalneav> ltspbot`: forget sbalneav
| |
| 10:40 | <ltspbot`> sbalneav: The operation succeeded.
| |
| 10:41 | <sbalneav> ltspbot`: !tarball
| |
| 10:41 | <ltspbot`> sbalneav: Error: "!tarball" is not a valid command.
| |
| 10:41 | <sbalneav> !tarball
| |
| 10:41 | <ltspbot`> sbalneav: "tarball" is (#1) http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Ltsp5TarballInstructions, or (#2) while the tarballs may work for you, most of the tarballs as of 2008-03-19 are extremely old and out of date.
| |
| 10:42 | tjikkun_work has quit IRC | |
| 10:43 | <sbalneav> ltspbot`: forget tarball
| |
| 10:43 | <ltspbot`> sbalneav: Error: 2 factoids have that key. Please specify which one to remove, or use * to designate all of them.
| |
| 10:43 | <sbalneav> ltspbot`: forget tarball 2
| |
| 10:43 | <ltspbot`> sbalneav: The operation succeeded.
| |
| 10:43 | <sbalneav> ltspbot`: factoids search --values
| |
| 10:43 | <ltspbot`> sbalneav: 'ltsp', 'icewm', 'frappr', 'wiki', 'debian', 'edubuntu', 'dhcpd', 'greyscreen', 'ltsp42', 'localdev', 'localdev', 'localdev', 'localdev', 'checklist', 'muekow', 'bestltspdistro', 'serversize', 'wireless', 'sound', 'topics', 'integration', 'lts.conf', 'pastebot', 'bootfloppy', 'ltsp5', 'tarball', 'download', 'monkeys', 'ogra', 'nfs', 'nfsnotresp', 'js', 's', 'troubleshooting', 'sbnet', (1 more message)
| |
| 10:44 | <sbalneav> !localdev
| |
| 10:44 | <ltspbot`> sbalneav: "localdev" is (#1) Information regarding using pluggable devices and cdroms with LTSP can be found at http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LTSP-42-LocalDev, or (#2) for ubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnableLTSP5LocalDevices, or (#3) for debian-edu: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/HowTo/LocalDeviceLtspfs, or (#4) http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev
| |
| 10:44 | <sbalneav> Hmm, factoids list scrolls off the screen (1 more message)
| |
| 10:45 | I should write a plugin for supybot that fixes that.
| |
| 10:45 | <johnny> hmm..
| |
| 10:45 | that was a lot of questions going on..
| |
| 10:48 | <sbalneav> !download
| |
| 10:48 | <ltspbot`> sbalneav: "download" is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/DownLoads
| |
| 10:48 | <sbalneav> !docs
| |
| 10:48 | <ltspbot`> sbalneav: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
| |
| 10:48 | <sbalneav> doco
| |
| 10:48 | !doco
| |
| 10:48 | <ltspbot`> sbalneav: "doco" is you can find the link to the latest, and most current upstream documentation at: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
| |
| 10:48 | <sbalneav> ltspbot`: forget doco
| |
| 10:48 | <ltspbot`> sbalneav: The operation succeeded.
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| 11:14 | <polytan> re
| |
| 11:14 | <johnny> hello polytan
| |
| 11:14 | i tried to catch you before you left last time
| |
| 11:14 | but i just missed you
| |
| 11:14 | <polytan> I'm here !
| |
| 11:15 | <johnny> if you want ltsp for gentoo, you must use layman
| |
| 11:15 | <polytan> I did it
| |
| 11:15 | <johnny> and add layman -a ltsp
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| 11:15 | <polytan> and i've installed ltsp-server on the server and ltsp-client on the client chroot wich I netboot
| |
| 11:16 | (the netboot works but I don't know how to activate ltsp)
| |
| 11:16 | <johnny> you're not supposed to manually install ltsp-client
| |
| 11:16 | you need to run ltsp-build-client
| |
| 11:16 | it sets things up properly
| |
| 11:18 | <polytan> ok
| |
| 11:18 | so I enter the chroot client
| |
| 11:18 | and I run ltsqp-buikld-client
| |
| 11:18 | -k
| |
| 11:19 | there is no command ltsp-build-client in the gentoo chroot environment
| |
| 11:19 | is it into the server package ?
| |
| 11:19 | yes
| |
| 11:20 | johnny, does this command create its own environment ?
| |
| 11:21 | because I've already build a gentoo in a folder that can be netbooted
| |
| 11:21 | <johnny> sure, but it also installs ltspfs, ldm, and removes stuff that gets in the way
| |
| 11:22 | take a look at /etc/ltsp/quickstart/profile.qs
| |
| 11:22 | that gives an overview.. altho in quickstart profile style
| |
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| 11:22 | <johnny> the important thing is to have ltspfs and ldm, and make sure ltsp-client and ltsp-client-setup are added as in that quickstart profile
| |
| 11:23 | <polytan> ok
| |
| 11:23 | but how to keep a gentoo system on the client ?
| |
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| 11:23 | <polytan> because I don't want ubuntu or something else, I know how to administrate gentoo
| |
| 11:25 | I see
| |
| 11:25 | (I'm reading the profile.qs file
| |
| 11:25 | )
| |
| 11:25 | and actually, it does the work I've done
| |
| 11:25 | <johnny> ok.. so add what i mentioned
| |
| 11:25 | and it might just work
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| 11:27 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: ldminfod in ldm-trunk definitely supports xsession, as well as the ldminfod shipped with ltsp in debian experimental :P
| |
| 11:27 | <polytan> c'est super
| |
| 11:27 | exactement ce que j'ai finalement
| |
| 11:27 | sorry
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| 11:28 | <polytan> johnny, this script is fantastic
| |
| 11:28 | the netboot node creation as been totally automatised
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| 11:28 | <johnny> i can't wait to remove the ~arch stuff
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| 11:28 | <polytan> I did the same
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| 11:28 | <johnny> waiting for some of it to be finalized
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| 11:28 | <polytan> on both my server and my ndoe
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| 11:28 | node*
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| 11:28 | <johnny> ltsp-build-client is the standard wrapper to install ltsp, so i just wrapped it around quickstart
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| 11:28 | <polytan> and next, to add an apps, can I use emerge ?
| |
| 11:29 | <johnny> you add apps to the server
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| 11:29 | in most cases
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| 11:29 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: though i see you've made some additional changes...
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| 11:30 | Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:30 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: it looks like you removed support for finding an Xsession script :P
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| 11:38 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: unlike most ldminfod values, the ldminfod xsession stuff was added to src/ldm.c
| |
| 11:38 | now i see why you thought it was missing
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| 11:51 | <polytan> in the ltsp-build-client script, is the default distribution the one running on the server ?
| |
| 11:52 | <sbalneav> off for lunch
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| 11:52 | <johnny> that is the only distribution supported
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| 11:52 | to be installed
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| 11:54 | <polytan> ltsp-build-client --dist gentoo --base /netboot --chroot GentooLTSP --locale fr_FR.UTF-8 --prompt-rootpass
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| 11:54 | is that ok ?
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| 11:55 | hum
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| 11:55 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: all i can muster regarding the ltsp docs is "yeah, scotty. sounds good!"
| |
| 11:55 | <polytan> /etc/ltsp/quickstart/profile.qs: line 42: /etc/conf.d/clock: No file or folder (I'm using openrc on my server)
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| 11:55 | <johnny> yeah.. so am i..
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| 11:55 | i thought i had the logic right
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| 11:55 | ignore --dist
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| 11:55 | it doesn't do anything on gentoo atm
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| 11:56 | if anything, it would be --dist 2008.1
| |
| 11:56 | or whatever
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| 11:56 | <warren> vagrantc: what exactly did ryan52 do?
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| 11:56 | <johnny> you should just stay with the structure imo
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| 11:56 | and not use base or chroot
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| 11:56 | <polytan> ok
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| 11:56 | <johnny> the chroot option is actually useful tho
| |
| 11:57 | in case you already have a chroot
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| 11:57 | and building another one
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| 11:57 | <vagrantc> warren: removed support for the Xsession detection while adding support for selecting sessions by name (rather than the binary)
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| 11:57 | <johnny> lemme look into the clock thing
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| 11:57 | <warren> vagrantc: oh yeah, we need that back
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| 11:57 | <johnny> polytan, you didn't follow the openrc instructions then!
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| 11:58 | <polytan> johnny, I still have the clock problem even if I remove the --dist,base,chroot option
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| 11:58 | <johnny> # For OpenRC
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| 11:58 | if [ -e /etc/timezone ]; then
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| 11:58 | TIMEZONE="$(</etc/timezone)"
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| 11:58 | else
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| 11:58 | . /etc/conf.d/clock
| |
| 11:58 | fi
| |
| 11:58 | fi
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| 11:58 | <vagrantc> warren: i already committed and pushed a fix
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| 11:58 | <johnny> oops.. too many lines
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| 11:58 | <warren> vagrantc: both ltsp and ldm or only ldm?
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| 11:58 | <polytan> hum
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| 11:58 | <johnny> openrc should require /etc/timezone
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| 11:58 | <polytan> strange
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| 11:58 | <vagrantc> warren: i think ldm only
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| 11:58 | <johnny> maybe i should change the check for /etc/conf.d/hwclock instead
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| 11:58 | err /etc/init.d/hwclock rather
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| 12:00 | <polytan> johnny, is that a problem if my files are not in /opt/ltsp ?
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| 12:00 | <johnny> it just helps consistantcy
| |
| 12:00 | and other people know how to help easier :)
| |
| 12:01 | no.. it's not really a problem..
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| 12:53 | <rjune> !ogra
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| 12:53 | <ltspbot`> rjune: "ogra" is ogra!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 12:54 | <rjune> ogra: Ich habe etwas fur dich
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| 13:21 | <johnny> cds with 101 songs are fun..
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| 13:21 | especially when cds can only have 99 songs.. :)
| |
| 13:21 | 99,100,101 are all on one track with a few seconds spacing
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| 13:40 | <rjune> ogra: you about?
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| 13:43 | lbruno has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:43 | * lbruno waves | |
| 13:43 | <lbruno> should LTSP use the support in Debian's rcS for "/var/run and /var/lock in tmpfs"?
| |
| 13:44 | or does that happen too late?
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| 13:45 | <vagrantc> lbruno: i think i looked into it in the past, and it interfered with something
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| 13:46 | <lbruno> vagrantc: got it
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| 13:46 | <sbalneav> How's it different from what we're doing now, anyway? /var's on a ramdrive
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| 13:46 | <lbruno> sbalneav: the complete /var?
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| 13:46 | <vagrantc> no
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| 13:46 | just what's needed
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| 13:46 | <lbruno> vagrantc: I'll have to look at this myself
| |
| 13:46 | <vagrantc> and it's configurable
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| 13:47 | <lbruno> vagrantc: ah, ok; I thought that maybe Debian's integration was not using the latest LTSP
| |
| 13:47 | <ogra> vagrantc, i never disabled it in ubuntu ... should just work
| |
| 13:48 | <vagrantc> lbruno: well, the version in lenny isn't the latest, but it's not absurdly behind
| |
| 13:48 | ogra: it's different in debian
| |
| 13:49 | <lbruno> ./var/run and /var/lock are mounted in /etc/rcS.d/S02; early enough, I take it? my previous LTSP (5weeks old lenny) is complaining of /var/run being hidden
| |
| 13:49 | <vagrantc> lbruno: the version in etch is quite old... but the /var/run, /var/lock stuff is ancient.
| |
| 13:49 | <lbruno> vagrantc: true! that's what catapulted me into lenny
| |
| 13:50 | .oO(for which I'm thankful, btw)
| |
| 13:52 | I spoke at first with imperfect knowledge; mounting tmpfs in all rw_dirs happens much later in the boot process, so I guess it can work like that
| |
| 13:52 | <vagrantc> lbruno: i haven't done a clean lenny install in a while... i've mostly been testing debian experimental packages for ltsp
| |
| 13:52 | bobby_C has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:52 | <lbruno> and I'm running fat-clients, not thin-
| |
| 13:52 | is this uncommon?
| |
| 13:52 | <vagrantc> not unheard of, but not common either
| |
| 13:54 | <lbruno> vagrantc: i'm going to do a couple more clean installations (and lenny's up to date on most packages); I guess those who are running fat-terminals don't document much
| |
| 13:54 | I've stumbled through a couple of undocumented gotchas already
| |
| 13:56 | <vagrantc> yeah, we've definitely focused more on genuinely thin clients
| |
| 13:56 | <lbruno> then I'll ask your opinion on capacity issues; let me check the machine specs
| |
| 13:57 | <vagrantc> shouldn't be any different from a disked system for capacity, except maybe more ram, as they either have no swap or networked swap
| |
| 13:57 | * lbruno nods | |
| 13:57 | <lbruno> my LTSP server is a Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2180 @ 2.00GHz
| |
| 13:58 | if using thin-terminals, about how many clients would you put on this?
| |
| 13:59 | <vagrantc> !serversize
| |
| 13:59 | <ltspbot`> vagrantc: "serversize" is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/ServerSizing
| |
| 13:59 | <rjune> depends on what you want to do with it
| |
| 13:59 | and how much RAM is in it
| |
| 13:59 | <lbruno> I guess "it depends" is the answer to most of my questions
| |
| 13:59 | <vagrantc> ram is almost more important than CPU, really.
| |
| 14:00 | lbruno: check out the serversizing document above... that gives some loose guidelines
| |
| 14:00 | <rjune> vagrantc: that's a vantastically good article
| |
| 14:01 | <vagrantc> haven't looked at it in a while...
| |
| 14:01 | <rjune> vagrantc: whatever happened the php script I wrote?
| |
| 14:01 | <lbruno> I can stick either 4G or 8G RAM on that machine; that's what drove me to fat-clients: I was too lazy to crack open some of the terminals and wanted to use their RAM without cutting my fingers in the process
| |
| 14:01 | * lbruno reads | |
| 14:01 | <vagrantc> rjune: i know not of this php script :)
| |
| 14:02 | <rjune> it was kinda need.
| |
| 14:02 | <vagrantc> lbruno: also, though it's not integrated into lenny, you could use localapps... running individual applications on the thin client but mostly on the server.
| |
| 14:02 | <rjune> neat
| |
| 14:02 | basically it just asked you # users, # terminals, then gave you a rough estimate of what you needed for RAM / Hard Drive / CPU
| |
| 14:02 | * lbruno nods to vagrantc | |
| 14:03 | <vagrantc> though localapps is still in it's infancy
| |
| 14:05 | <lbruno> those loose guidelines were quite nice, thank you
| |
| 14:06 | <vagrantc> though, if in doubt, add more ram.
| |
| 14:06 | definitely err on the side of too much ram rather than too little.
| |
| 14:06 | <lbruno> right now, I think my ceiling is the network
| |
| 14:07 | <vagrantc> how so?
| |
| 14:07 | <lbruno> I have two switches in the client->server path, and a 100mbps link between the switches...
| |
| 14:07 | ...yep, dumb
| |
| 14:07 | <vagrantc> probably not a huge deal.
| |
| 14:08 | <lbruno> even considering I'm doing 30 fat-clients (10 per such switch)?
| |
| 14:08 | <vagrantc> my main deploment has 15-20 users at a time, and it's all 100-base
| |
| 14:08 | <lbruno> oh, ok
| |
| 14:09 | <vagrantc> ah, fat clients may be different
| |
| 14:09 | <lbruno> especially at the start
| |
| 14:10 | what boxes do you use for clients? I went for fat-clients because it seemed a waste: the boxes I get for EUR90 have 2GHz processors and 1GB RAM
| |
| 14:13 | <vagrantc> those should make good diskless workstations, yes.
| |
| 14:13 | * vagrantc doesn't like the term "fat clients" | |
| 14:14 | <lbruno> you have an alternative for the F-word?
| |
| 14:15 | <vagrantc> i like "diskless workstations"
| |
| 14:15 | * nubae likes low fat clients :-) | |
| 14:15 | <vagrantc> that makes my stomach churn
| |
| 14:16 | <lbruno> ah, but the traditional thin-clients are diskless too! yes, nomenclature is difficult
| |
| 14:16 | <warren> high fat, high cholesterol clients
| |
| 14:16 | <vagrantc> though in the end, i guess we just need to know what we're talking about :)
| |
| 14:16 | lbruno: well, that's why i call them workstations rather than clients...
| |
| 14:16 | <warren> 100% bacon
| |
| 14:16 | * lbruno nods | |
| 14:16 | <lbruno> got it
| |
| 14:16 | <nubae> transfat
| |
| 14:17 | <lbruno> must be dinner time at your TZ
| |
| 14:17 | <vagrantc> i've heard fat clients referred to when talking about machines with disks vs. thin clients ...
| |
| 14:17 | <lbruno> vagrantc: oh? that I didn't expect
| |
| 14:18 | <vagrantc> though really, i've heard then all called all sorts of things, and none of the language is perfect. :)
| |
| 14:18 | <Gadi> yo mama's thin client's so fat...
| |
| 14:19 | <vagrantc> and ou get Gadi on a roll by discussing it
| |
| 14:19 | <Gadi> :)
| |
| 14:19 | * vagrantc seems to have a broken "y" key today | |
| 14:20 | <Gadi> vagrantc: I saw you perused by session-script/ stuff
| |
| 14:20 | <vagrantc> Gadi: yes
| |
| 14:20 | <Gadi> numbering aside, any thoughts?
| |
| 14:21 | stgraber and I were discussing a clean architecture for dropping in stuff
| |
| 14:21 | and this was kind of the result
| |
| 14:21 | tho, I dont like what he pushed upstream for an example script
| |
| 14:22 | so, I worked his script into the larger framework
| |
| 14:23 | <vagrantc> Gadi: you know, what i don't like about this is this gets run with every screen session, X related or not ...
| |
| 14:24 | <Gadi> hmm
| |
| 14:24 | well, thats easy to fix
| |
| 14:24 | (I think)
| |
| 14:24 | <vagrantc> heh
| |
| 14:24 | <Gadi> we could run it if and only if there are X_ params in the env
| |
| 14:25 | (which is a start)
| |
| 14:25 | it should run through quickly regardless
| |
| 14:25 | <vagrantc> Gadi: and i don't see why you've got all those function definitions in separate files ... why not have a single file with all the functions defined and a place to insert customizations inbetween generating xorg.conf
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| 14:26 | <Gadi> stgraber wanted individual files to make it easier to package
| |
| 14:26 | <vagrantc> i guess it's easier for distro's to not include certain parts, then.
| |
| 14:27 | * Gadi is not a packager, but I imagine so | |
| 14:27 | <Gadi> :)
| |
| 14:28 | <vagrantc> but this really seems more appropriate to screen-x-common
| |
| 14:28 | <Gadi> well, it has to happen before the Xserver
| |
| 14:28 | but, yeah, I agree with that
| |
| 14:28 | <vagrantc> screen-x-common is sourced at the top of all screen scripts that use X
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| 14:29 | <Gadi> the question is - are there any non-X related hacks that need to come before/after screen scripts
| |
| 14:29 | <vagrantc> right, there might be a need for both.
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| 14:29 | <Gadi> I suppose we could have X* files
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| 14:29 | ;)
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| 14:29 | S*, K*, X*
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| 14:30 | <vagrantc> XS XK
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| 14:30 | <Gadi> and X* only get executed from screen-x-common
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| 14:31 | <vagrantc> ou know about our wack /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf ?
| |
| 14:31 | yyyyyy
| |
| 14:31 | <Gadi> your wack?
| |
| 14:31 | <vagrantc> s,wack,wacky,g
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| 14:31 | <Gadi> no - we have a new xorg.conf?
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| 14:32 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 14:32 | i'm not sure if it's used...
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| 14:32 | <Gadi> not in upstream , yet, right?
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| 14:32 | <vagrantc> been there a long, long time
| |
| 14:32 | <Gadi> really?
| |
| 14:32 | oh boy
| |
| 14:32 | * lbruno is using the /etc/X11 one | |
| 14:32 | <lbruno> unless I didn't get it
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| 14:33 | <vagrantc> Gadi: since march
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| 14:33 | <lbruno> I was under the impression that X -configure > /etc/X11/xorg.conf was the way to go
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| 14:33 | <vagrantc> warren and i came up with /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf at some point...
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| 14:34 | <Gadi> to get around rw issues?
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| 14:34 | <vagrantc> i suspect so
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| 14:34 | <Gadi> fools!
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| 14:34 | :)
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| 14:34 | <vagrantc> it's pretty simple, reall.
| |
| 14:34 | y
| |
| 14:34 | alkisg has quit IRC | |
| 14:34 | <Gadi> ou dont sa
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| 14:34 | hehe
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| 14:34 | <vagrantc> just when i get a decent laptop... the y key has to fail on me...
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| 14:34 | <Gadi> couldnt resist
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| 14:35 | <vagrantc> basically, it sets X_CONF, so if the screen-x-common.d scripts respect that, we should be fine ... if it's the kind of thing that can be set after that stuff
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| 14:35 | <rjune> Gadi: you're mean
| |
| 14:36 | * lbruno hates looking back on old commits because of this | |
| 14:37 | <Gadi> vagrantc: yeah, we'd have to check into that
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| 14:37 | <Gadi> right now I think I have them writing to /etc/X11/xorg.conf
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| 14:37 | <vagrantc> Gadi: basically, if /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf exists, it sets X_CONF to that ... but we can't currently assume X_CONF is writeable, as it uses it directly otherwise.
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| 14:38 | i.e. X_CONF=/path/to/some/custom/xorg.conf
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| 14:38 | <Gadi> right
| |
| 14:38 | so, if we wrote the hacks to ltsp-xorg.conf, then X_CONF would be set
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| 14:39 | where does X_CONF get set?
| |
| 14:39 | ltsp_config?
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| 14:39 | <vagrantc> in screen-x-common
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| 14:39 | <Gadi> or later?
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| 14:39 | ah
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| 14:39 | <vagrantc> or lts.conf
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| 14:39 | it's the former XF86_CONF option or whatever it was called
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| 14:39 | <Gadi> so, I might as well just change my default to ltsp-xorg.conf
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| 14:40 | and let that other code do the rest
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| 14:40 | <vagrantc> if we put the screen-x-common.d stuff before it checks for /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf
| |
| 14:40 | <Gadi> right
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| 14:41 | I think stgraber needed a screen-session.d for his cluster stuff
| |
| 14:41 | <vagrantc> i think we need to do a whole audit of where customizations to X can happen from, and clean it up a bit.
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| 14:41 | <Gadi> so it could grab any changes to lts.conf
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| 14:41 | from the configurator
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| 14:41 | between sessions
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| 14:42 | <stgraber> Gadi: not really for the cluster stuff but to apply some little changes on the xorg.conf like Virtual (that's depending on a lts.conf variable that can be changed at any time)
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| 14:42 | <Gadi> stgraber: ah - are all of the hacks for X?
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| 14:43 | <stgraber> hmm, not sure about that, we might also add some hacks for alsa and even move our current ltsp-cluster change to screen_session to a screen-session.d/ script
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| 14:43 | <Gadi> well, then lets have an XS* and XK* that get called only from screen-x-common
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| 14:44 | OR have a screen-x-common.d in addition
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| 14:44 | not sure which you packagers prefer
| |
| 14:44 | :)
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| 14:45 | <vagrantc> we're starting to get a lot of these .d directories ...
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| 14:45 | <Gadi> its nice
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| 14:45 | <stgraber> why having one more .d ? sorry I'm at UDS so haven't followed the whole discussion ?
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| 14:45 | <Gadi> we have nice control of: before and after screen scripts, X initialization and before and after LDM logins
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| 14:46 | <vagrantc> stgraber: so you don't reconfigure X whenever you start a shell screen session
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| 14:46 | <Gadi> stgraber: so that the screen-session hacks don't happen for non-Xorg scripts
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| 14:46 | <stgraber> vagrantc: can't we just do a "if" in the screen-session.d scripts ?
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| 14:46 | <vagrantc> stgraber: that seems a whole lot clumsier
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| 14:47 | stgraber: if "$WHAT" ?
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| 14:47 | i think the XS*, XS* prefix could keep it simple enough
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| 14:47 | <Gadi> right - we dont have a good identifier of a graphical screen script or otherwise
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| 14:47 | <stgraber> so XS* and XK* would be called from screen-x-common ?
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| 14:48 | <Gadi> right
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| 14:48 | <vagrantc> maybe we even split some of screen-x-common into XS* scripts
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| 14:48 | <Gadi> alternativelt
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| 14:49 | we can have screen-x-common set an environment var indicating it is an X script
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| 14:49 | and then we can is it out
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| 14:49 | *if it out
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| 14:50 | so, if boolean_is_true "$I_AM_AN_X_SCRIPT"; then
| |
| 14:50 | and that way, its clean
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| 14:51 | <vagrantc> i think it's easier with a different prefix
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| 14:51 | <Gadi> okey dokey
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| 14:51 | <stgraber> Gadi: screen-session.d is executed before screen-x-common is sourced so wouldn't work
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| 14:51 | <vagrantc> then we don't have to wrap the whole script snippet into an if ; then ... which properly should have 4 indents
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| 14:51 | <Gadi> right
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| 14:52 | gotcha
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| 14:52 | XS* and XK* it is
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| 14:52 | <vagrantc> or, not indents, but spaces.
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| 14:52 | wheee!
| |
| 14:52 | then we can split out the X_CONF handling/setting into screen-session.d snippets
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| 14:53 | <Gadi> right
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| 14:54 | and everything gets a bit cleaner
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| 14:54 | <rjune> see, you guys scared cliebow off
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| 15:02 | <warren> hey what is ragnar's IRC name?
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| 15:02 | <jammcq> laprag
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| 15:02 | <warren> thx
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| 15:04 | MeW_ has quit IRC | |
| 15:04 | <rjune> how's ragnar doing anyway?
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| 15:04 | <jammcq> seems to be doing very well
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| 15:05 | <warren> He didn't end up face down in the bushes outside this past year.
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| 15:05 | So I'd call that an improvement.
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| 15:08 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: the session-with-name patch is great!
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| 15:08 | <Gadi> vagrantc, stgraber: something like this? lp:~gideon/ltsp/ltsp-trunk-screensessiond
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| 15:09 | <rjune> warren: he didn't end up in the bushes face down when I went either.
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| 15:13 | <vagrantc> Gadi: did you just delete and add all those scripts? "bzr mv" is a good freind :)
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| 15:13 | a.k.a. bzr rename
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| 15:13 | <Gadi> thx
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| 15:14 | I like to have a few tools I can remember - that's why I use a hammer as a screwdriver
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| 15:14 | ;)
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| 15:14 | <johnny> except delete and add kills history
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| 15:14 | bzr can't possibly track across that
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| 15:14 | that's why mv is important
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| 15:14 | <Gadi> gotcha
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| 15:15 | <vagrantc> and saves space, over time.
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| 15:15 | <Gadi> I assume it would mv the files for me, too
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| 15:15 | right?
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| 15:15 | <johnny> why would it do that?
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| 15:15 | <warren> Gadi: I'm glad you have fresh quotes. You were almost replaced.
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| 15:15 | <vagrantc> Gadi: yes, it moves them.
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| 15:15 | <johnny> oh.. bzr mv
| |
| 15:15 | yes
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| 15:16 | <Gadi> cool
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| 15:16 | <vagrantc> Gadi: though i think it can't handle renaming multiple files, which is an annoying drawback
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| 15:16 | <rjune> Gadi: I thought you used a hammer as a screwdriver because you were smart and added the phillips head to the bottom of the handle
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| 15:16 | <Gadi> well, thats why God invented for loops
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| 15:17 | rjune: nah, every time I tried, I whacked myself in the head
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| 15:17 | those things really smart!
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| 15:17 | <rjune> God invented for loops? when did he do that?
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| 15:18 | <Gadi> rjune: creating the universe can get repetative - always helpful to write a script or two
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| 15:18 | <rjune> Ahh
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| 15:18 | I see now
| |
| 15:18 | a big array to hold coordinates, etc. then a for loop to cycle through and create all the stars
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| 15:19 | good thinking. I hope he spun that off in its own thread
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| 15:19 | <warren> Gadi: that isn't the purpose of delegation and outsourcing to cheap labor?
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| 15:19 | <rjune> warren: why do you think the angels revolted?
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| 15:20 | <warren> you mean when they unionized?
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| 15:22 | <Gadi> hehe
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| 15:22 | <rjune> warren: so unions are the work of the devil? that does explain a bit
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| 15:23 | <Gadi> suddenly we all work for GM
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| 15:32 | <vagrantc> well, i've got a hack to support ~/.dmrc parsing server-side for debian/ubuntu systems, at least.
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| 15:33 | well, i guess it doesn't parse ~/.dmrc ... but the premise holds...
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| 15:34 | <warren> how far did Ryan52 get?
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| 15:34 | <ltsppbot> "vagrantc" pasted "/etc/X11/Xsession.d/10x11-session-selection-hacks" (25 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/137
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| 15:34 | <vagrantc> haven't seen any code for that
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| 15:34 | <warren> Ryan52 was working on this last night
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| 15:35 | <vagrantc> warren: what he did do was add support for using the more human-freindly names rather than /usr/bin/gnome-session or whatever for session selection
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| 15:35 | <warren> vagrantc: no, beyond that he began working on ~/.dmrc
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| 15:35 | <vagrantc> warren: cool.
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| 15:35 | <warren> parsing it, writing a new one if the user picks something
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| 15:35 | <vagrantc> warren: probably will be done soon, then. :)
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| 15:35 | <warren> asking hte user if they want to save it or not
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| 15:36 | <vagrantc> i'll wait to upload, then. :)
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| 15:38 | i stumbled through it for hours yesterday with no luck. trying to abuse ldminfo.c with a script in rc.d to parse ~/.dmrc and generate an ldminfo-like file to parse...
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| 15:39 | <warren> let's see where Ryan52 is
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| 15:40 | * vagrantc suspects a hostage of the state | |
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| 15:57 | <vagrantc> [1489030.826963] clocksource/0: Time went backwards: ret=2fbb5e13a5 delta=-1982858490996942 shadow=2fbb12da1c offset=4b9f86
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| 15:58 | <polytan_> hi
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| 15:58 | <vagrantc> oops.
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| 15:58 | <polytan_> is there any video card driver discovering with ltsp or only vesa is used ?
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| 15:58 | <johnny> huh?
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| 15:58 | it does whatever X can do
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| 15:59 | and X can detect the driver
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| 15:59 | it's nothing ltsp specific at all
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| 15:59 | <polytan_> ok
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| 15:59 | is it automatically done ?
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| 16:00 | I've always configure my X manually, I don't really know the automatic things
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| 16:00 | <johnny> oh.. that's right.. there's a thing in the quickstart profile that i thought i committed :(
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| 16:00 | it sets VIDEO_CARDS=vesa
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| 16:00 | <polytan_> yes
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| 16:00 | <johnny> so.. you're gonna have to install the others manually
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| 16:00 | easiest way
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| 16:01 | remove that line
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| 16:01 | <polytan_> and how X choose the right driver ?
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| 16:01 | <johnny> and then emerge xorg-server
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| 16:01 | magic
| |
| 16:01 | no.. it looks at what hardware is in the system
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| 16:01 | and uses it
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| 16:01 | lemme remove that line for future usages
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| 16:01 | <polytan_> ok
| |
| 16:01 | so I will do it too tomorrow
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| 16:02 | is it the same with type of keyboard, mouse (no pb I think with the mouse ;) ) and screen resolution ?
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| 16:02 | <johnny> generally yes
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| 16:03 | <polytan_> ok
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| 16:03 | so I will have pb with that ;)
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| 16:05 | <johnny> i just committed the removal of VIDEO_CARDS from the default make.conf
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| 16:05 | <polytan_> ok
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| 16:12 | <stgraber> /query nand
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| 16:12 | oops
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| 16:13 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i'd also like to use run_parts_list instead of more find calls, so we use a consistant namespace for everything
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| 16:13 | Gadi: that's a function in ltsp-trunk/ltsp-common-functions
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| 16:14 | probably need a "run_parts_list_with_prefix" wrapper function
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| 16:29 | <Gadi> vagrantc: can I simply add an optional second argument to run_parts_list?
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| 16:30 | [ -n "$2" ] && find_args="$find_args -name $2"
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| 16:30 | or some such
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| 16:30 | <vagrantc> i was adding a separate function for it ...
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| 16:30 | <Gadi> seems like overkill, no?
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| 16:31 | you just repeat the code
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| 16:31 | <vagrantc> although, it looks like run_parts_list exits if there's no directory...
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| 16:31 | might be nice to have a more tolerant function, that simply doesn't make any output
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| 16:31 | <ogra> launchpad is going opensource in june :)
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| 16:32 | just was officially announced
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| 16:32 | * vagrantc wonders why june | |
| 16:32 | <ogra> code cleanups
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| 16:32 | <vagrantc> well, that'll be nice. :)
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| 16:32 | <Gadi> wow - opensource and cleaner code!
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| 16:32 | <ogra> and licensing/copyright rewiew
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| 16:33 | <Gadi> that should be part of the announcement
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| 16:33 | <ogra> also signed PPAs next week
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| 16:34 | Gadi: it was ... i'm sitting in the announcement talk
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| 16:34 | <Gadi> ah
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| 16:34 | :)
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| 16:34 | <warren> Does this make it easier for everyone to make launchpad their upstream?
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| 16:34 | <Gadi> ogra: start a wave
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| 16:34 | <ogra> it will probabl take a moment for it to show up in written form
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| 16:35 | <ogra> warren: you are free to enhance it so it doexs what you miss
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| 16:36 | i assume we'll see lots of launchpads in the future ... and probably also forks
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| 16:36 | <warren> 1) Make Ubuntu submit all patches back to upstream projects no matter where they are located. "Making available" is not sufficient.
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| 16:37 | 2) Make Ubuntu stop shipping non-free components you can enable in the default install.
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| 16:37 | I doubt launchpad opening will solve these.
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| 16:37 | * ogra wondrs what either has to do with LP | |
| 16:38 | <ogra> and ii also hear a lot of complaints recently that RH isnt actually acting better in projectswher they have no employees actively in the upstream projects
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| 16:39 | <warren> That is true to a certain degree, but far less than Ubuntu.
| |
| 16:39 | We welcome people to point out those cases
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| 16:39 | <ogra> your 2) would simply be again st the ubuntu philosophy ...
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| 16:40 | <warren> which is "Make users today happy at any cost."
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| 16:40 | <ogra> though i assume you are aware that ubuntu has a "fully free" install mode since brrzy
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| 16:40 | <warren> http://lwn.net/Articles/294891/
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| 16:40 | <ogra> breezy
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| 16:40 | <warren> Yes, I am aware.
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| 16:42 | <ogra> you pasted the aticle 100 times here ... the 101th time wont change anything
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| 16:42 | <warren> it still remains true.
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| 16:43 | Launchpad opening is a positive development, but it is not core to the problems of Ubuntu.
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| 16:43 | <ogra> depends on your view
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| 16:43 | <ogra> these are not problems, its a definition
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| 16:44 | you are free to disagree with the definition ... but that wont change ubuntus focus
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| 16:45 | <warren> "The World Trade Organization abusing the developing world through abusive concessions that threaten long-term sovereignty in exchange for loan guarantees and grants. This is not a problem, but rather a definition of the WTO."
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| 16:45 | * ogra goes for a smoke | |
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| 16:51 | <johnny> warren, non free components? seriously?
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| 16:52 | <warren> johnny: Fedora ships zero non-free components.
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| 16:52 | (we just have a different definition of Free than the FSF)
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| 16:52 | <nubae> I doubt many people can live with everything free
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| 16:52 | <johnny> warren, actually.. linux mint does more of a job at making people happy than ubuntu
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| 16:52 | <vagrantc> Gadi: got the prefix handling as second argument
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| 16:52 | <johnny> it includes all the non free components
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| 16:52 | that ubuntu does not
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| 16:52 | <warren> then why aren't fanboys flocking to them?
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| 16:52 | <johnny> name recognition
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| 16:52 | <nubae> right, I usually install that for my parents/relatives/friends
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| 16:53 | they do... mint has more users than fedora according to distrowatch :-)
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| 16:53 | <johnny> warren, i'd really appreciate it if open development came with freedom
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| 16:53 | you guys are doing terrible when you are the upstream in the eyes of many external folks
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| 16:53 | especially in regards to hal and devicekit
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| 16:53 | so get off your high horse
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| 16:53 | <nubae> ubuntu, opensuse, then Mint...
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| 16:54 | <johnny> and policykit
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| 16:54 | <warren> johnny: That is not a common theme across most of Fedora. We are terrible in specific areas, even other Fedora and RH devs are upset at them.
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| 16:54 | <johnny> sure.. but those specific areas are really important to the gnu/linux infrastructure
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| 16:55 | i even got yelled at for questioning the wisdom of the mighty davidz
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| 16:55 | saying that he was a hero
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| 16:55 | and whatnot
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| 16:55 | <nubae> davidz?
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| 16:55 | <johnny> david zeuthen
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| 16:55 | policykit, hal
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| 16:55 | devicekit
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| 16:55 | <nubae> ah
| |
| 16:55 | <johnny> he works on all those important things
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| 16:56 | <warren> I do wish he would be less of an ass.
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| 16:56 | davidj has quit IRC | |
| 16:57 | <johnny> it's not just him.. sounds like he has a clique...
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| 16:57 | <warren> vagrantc: I'm pushing my alternate LDM theme as an IFDEF to ldm-trunk. It can be ripped out when ogra's more flexible ldm layout rewrite happens.
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| 16:57 | <johnny> warren, i really appreciate your interest in keeping things free
| |
| 16:58 | <vagrantc> warren: it's fairly simply?
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| 16:58 | <warren> vagrantc: yes, simple
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| 16:58 | <johnny> but choose your battles
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| 16:58 | and don't piss of valuable contributors
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| 16:58 | <vagrantc> warren: fine by me
| |
| 16:58 | <warren> johnny: yes, his entire department has a few difficult personalities
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| 16:58 | <johnny> otherwise i'm going to jump in
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| 16:58 | and ruff you up
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| 16:58 | lol
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| 16:59 | <ogra> warren: as i said, you guys go on as usual with LDM, my rewrite will still take a while
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| 17:00 | <warren> ogra: ok
| |
| 17:00 | * warren adds IFDEF's for 30 different layouts | |
| 17:00 | <johnny> warren, what i appreciate about fedora and ubuntu over debian is the integrated experience
| |
| 17:00 | <ogra> heh
| |
| 17:00 | <johnny> altho i really like what ubuntu is about to do in regards to dropping src debs
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| 17:00 | probably the best thing to ever happen
| |
| 17:00 | in distro technolog
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| 17:01 | <warren> Gadi: any progress on more examples of X_* options?
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| 17:02 | <johnny> perhaps i am too empathetic..
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| 17:03 | i just enjoyed hanging out with geeks/nerds for once in PDX and don't like seeing this kind of conflict
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| 17:08 | <nubae> Edubuntu can also refer to the Classroom LTSP server, which is a thin client based system.
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| 17:08 | thats still in edubuntu faq... is that incorrect now?
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| 17:08 | should I take that sentence out
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| 17:12 | polytan_ has quit IRC | |
| 17:12 | <warren> oooh
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| 17:12 | I found a better way to make mkdst rpm work without adding my alt layout
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| 17:20 | ogra_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 17:20 | <Gadi> warren: lp:~gideon/ltsp/ltsp-trunk-screensessiond
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| 17:20 | <warren> oh
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| 17:21 | Gadi: how well tested?
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| 17:21 | <Gadi> you'll see a bunch more scripts
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| 17:21 | not very well, yet, I am afraid - but it gives you an idea of what X_ options
| |
| 17:22 | in terms of xorg.conf, mostly: XSERVER, X_VERTREFRESH, X_HORZSYNC, X_VIRTUAL, X_VIRTUAL_AUTO
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| 17:22 | oh and
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| 17:22 | X_OPTION_** and X_MONITOR_OPTION_**
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| 17:23 | these are all things that *may* need to be specified, regardless of the xrandr and xorg.conf-less nature of things
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| 17:24 | I think, however, when all is said and done, we will have all the functionality of configure-x.sh in a much saner way
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| 17:24 | and with drop-in scripts that can be overidden or not packaged if it conflicts with the way a distro handles things
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| 17:33 | <warren> wait, not understading
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| 17:33 | you are saying they NEED to be specified?
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| 17:34 | you can't rely on specifying nothing?
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| 17:34 | * vagrantc notes *may* | |
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| 17:35 | <warren> I don't understand why it may
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| 17:38 | <Gadi> ok, here's an example: you want to force certain sync frequencies because your monitor lacks DDC support and the driver does not choose frequencies that allow the mode you want to be valid
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| 17:39 | another: you have hardware with a BIOS that reports having an internal LVDS panel when none exists and you need to tell the driver that there is no panel
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| 17:39 | another: you need to force the use of the "geode" driver ;)
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| 17:40 | <Gadi> there may be many reasons why no xorg.conf does not work in some cases
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| 17:40 | obviously, in an ideal world, one never needs xorg.conf
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| 17:40 | Eghie has quit IRC | |
| 17:40 | <johnny> yet there's still no mouse tuning gui in gnome by default
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| 17:40 | or for configuring a trackpad
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| 17:41 | <vagrantc> i am soooo glad i don't use gnome, then. :)
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| 17:41 | <Gadi> which reminds me to ask someone about how serial x input devices work in Xorg 1.5
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| 17:41 | <johnny> you can change sensitivity and click threshold
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| 17:41 | in gnome
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| 17:41 | <Gadi> are there inputattach files for every serial input device?
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| 17:41 | <johnny> but you need gsyntapics to do a touchpad
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| 17:42 | but SHMConfig is not enabled by default for synaptics
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| 17:42 | without an xorg.conf
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| 17:42 | and nvidia drivers are especially heinous
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| 17:42 | no xorg.conf.. means you get a logo
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| 17:42 | yuck
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| 17:42 | they should drop that option altogether
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| 17:42 | o cam
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| 17:42 | i can't imagine a single person wanting to see it
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| 17:43 | <Gadi> yeah - I think there are enough of these simple configs that we should continue to support and not throw them away and tell folks to use a static xorg.conf file
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| 17:44 | of course, we will need to teach people to set refresh rate with XRANDR_RATE_0 instead of X_VERTREFRESH
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| 17:44 | <johnny> but what about nvidia?
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| 17:44 | does it take those parameters?
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| 17:44 | or ati proprietary for that matter
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| 17:44 | <Gadi> like which?
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| 17:44 | <johnny> XRANDR
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| 17:44 | iirc.. it takes some.. but not all
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| 17:44 | i'm not sure which
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| 17:45 | <Gadi> ah - I support 1.2 and pre-1.2 params
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| 17:45 | rate is 1.2
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| 17:45 | <johnny> it's sad that nvidia has the BEST implementation of anything
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| 17:45 | <Gadi> but size is pre-1.2
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| 17:45 | <johnny> for 3d
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| 17:47 | <Gadi> vagrantc: dropping the default 16-bit color?
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| 17:52 | <vagrantc> Gadi: yeah.
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| 17:53 | <Gadi> somebody's got bandwidth to burn
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| 17:53 | :)
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| 17:53 | <vagrantc> heh.
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| 17:54 | i guess i hadn't done comparisons of 16 vs. 24 bit for network traffic...
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| 17:54 | <Gadi> listen - you do what you gotta do
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| 17:54 | :)
| |
| 17:55 | they make some beautiful 24-bit wallpapers out there
| |
| 17:55 | 32-bit is even nicer
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| 18:03 | <warren> PATTERN='*.patch'
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| 18:03 | echo $PATTERN
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| 18:04 | how do you echo $PATTERN without it expanding if .patch files are in the current directory?
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| 18:12 | oh207_ has quit IRC | |
| 18:15 | <vagrantc> echo ${PATTERN} ?
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| 18:15 | nevermind
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| 18:16 | echo "${PATTERN}" seems to work!
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| 18:28 | * warren writing a few bug fixes for mkdst | |
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| 18:29 | <lbruno> well, that was a nice one
| |
| 18:29 | I mean, hi again
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| 18:30 | <lbruno> so. I never stumbled on this one: I have an eth1, but not an eth0
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| 18:30 | that plays some havoc
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| 18:30 | <vagrantc> oh yeah.
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| 18:32 | <lbruno> I'm testing if moving some lines of $LTSP/etc/initramfs-tools/modules around "solves" that
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| 18:32 | Loto__ has joined #ltsp | |
| 18:33 | <Ryan52> oh, hi people :)
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| 18:34 | vagrantc: I removed it?
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| 18:34 | that could explain it :p
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| 18:34 | vagrantc: were there other weird things I removed?
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| 18:35 | * Ryan52 used a horrible workflow for changing that.. | |
| 18:35 | * Ryan52 goes to look at his diff | |
| 18:36 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: no, your patch is great!
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| 18:36 | Ryan52: with that one fix, that is :)
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| 18:37 | <lbruno> ok, this must be "basic" Linux, but I'm stumped: my onboard LAN (atl1) now thinks it's on eth1
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| 18:37 | <Ryan52> okay, other than that I've got the dmrc done and working, I think (I did a bunch of cleanup after I tested, so I need to test again).
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| 18:38 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: excellent!
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| 18:38 | <lbruno> "I didn't change anything" isn't quite true, but I only rebuilt the initrd.
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| 18:38 | <warren> vagrantc: hmm... find doesn't like cases in .bzrignore like "po/messages.mo"
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| 18:38 | <lbruno> thoughts?
| |
| 18:38 | <warren> vagrantc: find: warning: Unix filenames usually don't contain slashes (though pathnames do). That means that '-name `po/messages.mo'' will probably evaluate to false all the time on this system. You might find the '-wholename' test more useful, or perhaps '-samefile'. Alternatively, if you are using GNU grep, you could use 'find ... -print0 | grep -FzZ `po/messages.mo''.
| |
| 18:39 | <Ryan52> and, if I can find some nice person to test if I didn't break localdev and sound later, then I can merge it :)
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| 18:39 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: i can test it tomorrow, as it's a feature needed for freegeek
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| 18:39 | or maybe even tonight
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| 18:40 | <warren> Ryan52: I can test it soon
| |
| 18:40 | <Ryan52> okay. I'm gonna do some more testing right now, then I'll put up a bzr repo.
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| 18:40 | <warren> hmm
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| 18:40 | autogen.sh is failing for ldm for me.
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| 18:41 | <Ryan52> weird. works for me.
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| 18:41 | it says "Please add the files" but it overall suceeds..
| |
| 18:41 | <warren> oh wait, no
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| 18:41 | it has bogus lines in .bzrignore
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| 18:41 | <Ryan52> oh.
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| 18:41 | our autogen.sh isn't set -e.
| |
| 18:41 | * Ryan52 fixes | |
| 18:42 | <vagrantc> it should definitely be set -e
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| 18:42 | heck, i wouldn
| |
| 18:42 | 't even be opposed to set -x
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| 18:42 | <warren> mkdst-trunk now removes anything listed in .bzrignore before tarballing
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| 18:42 | <vagrantc> ah, slick.
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| 18:42 | <warren> thus .bzrignore needs some cleanup
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| 18:42 | then there's this problem:
| |
| 18:42 | find: warning: Unix filenames usually don't contain slashes (though pathnames do). That means that '-name `po/messages.mo'' will probably evaluate to false all the time on this system. You might find the '-wholename' test more useful, or perhaps '-samefile'. Alternatively, if you are using GNU grep, you could use 'find ... -print0 | grep -FzZ `po/messages.mo''.
| |
| 18:43 | <lbruno> :w
| |
| 18:43 | * vagrantc suspects the .po files could really use updating | |
| 18:43 | <warren> smoke some .pot
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| 18:43 | =)
| |
| 18:44 | <vagrantc> how does the .pot get updated?
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| 18:44 | <Ryan52> make update-po, I think..
| |
| 18:44 | * Ryan52 was looking at that, trying to figure out how to make his shell script i18n friendly. | |
| 18:45 | <warren> Ryan52: did you use exactly the same string from gdm or kdm for asking the user, so we can simply copy all of their translations?
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| 18:45 | <Ryan52> warren, no, because I can't figure out how to get the 'make update-po' to work right.
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| 18:45 | if that's even what update-po does.
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| 18:45 | * Ryan52 is confuzzled by this entire thing | |
| 18:46 | <vagrantc> looks like it's borked
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| 18:46 | <warren> what is borked?
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| 18:46 | <vagrantc> make ldm.pot
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| 18:46 | make: *** No rule to make target `../gtkgreet/ldminfo.c', needed by `ldm.pot'. Stop.
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| 18:46 | <Ryan52> fix POFILES.in, then autogen.sh again.
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| 18:47 | or, no.
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| 18:47 | run configure again.
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| 18:47 | <warren> do you have gettext installed?
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| 18:47 | <vagrantc> gtkgreet/ldminfo.c was moved to src/ldminfo.c
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| 18:47 | <warren> NOTE: Before we ask people to update the .po files, we should go through the strings and eliminate duplicates, or try to eliminate strings that are very similar.
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| 18:48 | <vagrantc> indeed.
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| 18:48 | the simplest way to do that is to generate the current set of strings and look for duplicates
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| 18:48 | or near dupes
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| 18:48 | <Ryan52> and if it's just a rewording in english we should unfuzzy.
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| 18:48 | <warren> the .pot file is the set of strings
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| 18:48 | <vagrantc> right
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| 18:49 | <Ryan52> that sounds like a lot of work, in stuff that I have no clue about, so...:)
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| 18:50 | <vagrantc> fixed the make error
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| 18:50 | just had to fix it in POTFILES.in
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| 18:51 | <lbruno> so, to workaround these migrant interfaces: should I hack a loop that gets all interfaces from /proc and tries ipconfig on them?
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| 18:52 | <vagrantc> eeyk.
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| 18:53 | there's a fair number of strings that just plain shouldn't be translated
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| 18:53 | and a lot that could be consolidated
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| 18:54 | <Ryan52> what shouldn't be translated?
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| 18:54 | <vagrantc> "x_session: %s"
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| 18:54 | neither part should be translated
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| 18:54 | <Ryan52> if we take out the gettext call on it will update-po stop noticing it?
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| 18:55 | <vagrantc> and there's a bunch of ERROR: get_userid from greeter failed" that should simply have a %s in them
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| 18:55 | Ryan52: should.
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| 18:56 | <Ryan52> does gettext eliminate exact duplicates?
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| 18:56 | or whatever this magic program is called :)
| |
| 18:56 | * vagrantc wonders what the difference with "No reponse from server, restarting..." and "No reponse, restarting" is | |
| 18:57 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: yes, it will consolidate identical strings
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| 18:57 | that's why it's good to use consistant strings
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| 18:59 | <vagrantc> overall, when we did all the changes to ldm at the PDX hackfest, i think we happened to make big improvements on the localizable strings...
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| 18:59 | it doesn't look too bad after a quick glance
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| 19:01 | i'll give it a lookover the next weeks and make a call for updated translations
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| 19:01 | probably should do the same for ltsp, actually
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| 19:02 | * vagrantc heads off to aikido | |
| 19:02 | <Ryan52> vagrantc: how do I make my shell script translatable?
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| 19:02 | vagrantc: I have the code written, but how do I make the .pot files know about the strings?
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| 19:03 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: look at the files in ltsp-trunk/po/ ...
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| 19:04 | <Ryan52> oh, ok, thanks :p
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| 19:16 | <warren> Ryan52: where is your code that does the dmrc stuff? is it in both ldm and ltsp or only one?
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| 19:17 | Ryan52: I can test it tonight, but before pushing it, let me test the current trees.
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| 19:18 | <Ryan52> It's broken right now...it's only in ldm.
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| 19:18 | <warren> ok
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| 19:23 | vagrantc has quit IRC | |
| 19:24 | <Ryan52> that's really stupid. kde 4 (at least on my system) completely ignores LANG variable when it's displaying the menus, and it made me think I had a bug -_-
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| 19:25 | ogra has quit IRC | |
| 19:25 | <warren> how does it decide which language to display in the menus?
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| 19:26 | <Ryan52> no clue...I just know that gnome is in french, and kde is in english :)
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| 19:26 | * Ryan52 will look at that later | |
| 19:28 | <Ryan52> warren: bzr branch http://bzr.ryan52.info/bzr/ltsp/ldm-dmrc/
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| 19:28 | (if you want to test it)
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| 19:29 | the things that are not tested are sound, localdevs, and the system wide dmrc (set with the LDM_SYSTEMWIDE_DMRC variable).
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| 19:29 | <stgraber> Ryan52: too bad I'm not at the office until next week ...
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| 19:30 | Ryan52: I'll have a look at the code and see if I can remotely test it with some computers at the office
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| 19:31 | <warren> Ryan52: did you take into account that the name in dmrc does not match the session launcher name?
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| 19:31 | gdm for example writes "gnome" in there
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| 19:31 | somehow
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| 19:32 | <Ryan52> what do you mean session launcher name?
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| 19:32 | the Session setting in .dmrc is the name of the file in /usr/share/xsession
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| 19:32 | s
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| 19:32 | * Ryan52 read gdm's docs | |
| 19:32 | <Ryan52> and it works with gnome and kde.
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| 19:33 | <warren> /usr/share/xsession or xsessions?
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| 19:33 | <Ryan52> xsessions.
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| 19:33 | <warren> ok good
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| 19:33 | Ryan52: could you please rebase this against the current ldm-trunk?
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| 19:33 | can't test it yet, gotta make sure everything before it works
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| 19:33 | <Ryan52> hrm. a rebase with bzr...I can try :)
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| 19:35 | $ bzr push bzr+ssh://bzr.ryan52.info/bzr/ltsp/ldm-dmrc
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| 19:35 | bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged. Try using "merge" and then "push".
| |
| 19:35 | (after rebasing)
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| 19:35 | what do I do?
| |
| 19:35 | * Ryan52 tries with --overwrite | |
| 19:36 | <Ryan52> oh, ok, that worked.
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| 19:36 | Ryan52: lrn2RTFM!!! :p
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| 19:36 | warren, rebased
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| 19:56 | <warren> Ryan52: do your changes require any files installed in different places or new files?
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| 19:57 | <Ryan52> yes, there are two new files in rc.d/
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| 19:58 | X50-dmrc-processing and X99-run-x-session
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| 19:58 | both of which need to be installed wherever you put rc.d files...
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| 19:58 | <warren> that's the only new/changed files?
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| 19:58 | <Ryan52> ya.
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| 19:58 | <warren> Ryan52: hmm, it is about time we stop supporting esound and nasd
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| 19:59 | <Ryan52> oh, I didn't add those to the makefile..
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| 19:59 | I just reimplemented what was already there :)
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| 20:00 | * Ryan52 fixed the Makefile.am | |
| 20:00 | <warren> when is X run?
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| 20:00 | X* scripts
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| 20:01 | <Ryan52> X is ran wherever it currently is ran...the X* scripts are for the "x_session".
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| 20:01 | (so connecting to the remote server and running stuff)
| |
| 20:06 | hrm. kdm doesn't even look at the .dmrc wrt language..
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| 20:07 | oh, user error, with kde you have to install a separate package for different localizations.
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| 20:07 | <warren> ah
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| 20:19 | <warren> Ryan52: I'm surprised that you implemented the entire thing in shell
| |
| 20:19 | That was a lot of work
| |
| 20:19 | Ryan52: I'm not sure this is the ideal way to do this, we should get more opinions on the list. i'm testing it now.
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| 20:20 | Ryan52: was ldminfod changed at all for this?
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| 20:20 | <Ryan52> no.
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| 20:20 | <warren> nice
| |
| 20:23 | Ryan52: oh boy, where did you get the zenity/xmessage/omgwtfbbq idea?
| |
| 20:23 | * warren wrote similar shit to this 6 years ago | |
| 20:24 | * warren still wouldn't do anything better | |
| 20:24 | <Ryan52> hrm. what else should I have done? :)
| |
| 20:24 | <warren> Ryan52: you did nothing wrong, I'm just impressed
| |
| 20:25 | <Ryan52> oh, ok, good :)
| |
| 20:26 | <warren> Ryan52: what happens if none of those 3 are installed?
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| 20:27 | Ryan52: implementing this in ldm itself might be a good thing, because zenity pulls in an additional 14 packages, and the others are ugly.
| |
| 20:27 | <Ryan52> xorg depends on x11-utils which provides xmessage, so one of them will always be there, at least on Debian...
| |
| 20:27 | ya.
| |
| 20:29 | implementing it in C wouldn't be *that* hard, but it would be a mess, and I think that allowing people to add scripts that actually change ldm's behavior instead of just running stuff is a good thing in general...
| |
| 20:29 | people meaning users
| |
| 20:30 | and we have other stuff using zenity :)
| |
| 20:31 | LDM_LIMIT_ONE_SESSION and LDM_USER_ALLOW both use zenity or xmessage if zenity isn't there.
| |
| 20:31 | though this would be more commonly seen that those..
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| 20:31 | siki has quit IRC | |
| 20:32 | <warren> in the chroot?
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| 20:32 | other stuff in the chroot using zenity?
| |
| 20:32 | oh
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| 20:32 | <Ryan52> yup.
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| 20:33 | <warren> zenity is pretty heavy in reqiurements
| |
| 20:33 | xmessage doesn't even print out the entire message
| |
| 20:34 | Your default window session is GNOME, but you choose
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| 20:34 | Ryan52: where did you copy this text from?
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| 20:34 | <Ryan52> from my head :p
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| 20:34 | <warren> Ryan52: please get the equiv from gdm source so we can reuse translations
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| 20:35 | <Ryan52> until it supports i18n there's no point to doing that...
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| 20:38 | <warren> Ryan52: does debian's initscripts use gettext to translate strings?
| |
| 20:38 | fedora's initscripts do
| |
| 20:38 | Ryan52: could you change the default behavior, if none of those three dialog apps are installed, save as the new default without asking?
| |
| 20:39 | <Ryan52> you don't have xmessage installed with xorg?
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| 20:39 | <warren> Ryan52: nope, and xmessage is both ugly and doesn't display the entire message
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| 20:39 | <Ryan52> b
| |
| 20:39 | <warren> Ryan52: Ryan52: sometime later we should have a generic dialog app implemented as a tiny binary to include in ldm. I really don't want to pull in 14 packages just for zenity.
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| 20:40 | Ryan52: xmessage is at least one package, but uses an additional 554KB of space in the chroot
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| 20:40 | in our case
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| 20:42 | <Ryan52> okay, changed.
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| 20:48 | * Ryan52 isn't feeling well and is gonna go watch TV or sleep or something | |
| 20:49 | <Ryan52> warren, can you email teh list for me wrt "we should get more opinions on the list"? :)
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| 21:06 | <warren> Ryan52: please don't feel afraid to post to the list, you do awesome work and should take visible "ownership" of it.
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| 21:07 | Ryan52: sound and local apps both work
| |
| 21:07 | Ryan52: what else do you need tested?
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| 21:09 | <Ryan52> warren, LDM_SYSTEMWIDE_DMRC
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| 21:09 | <warren> oh right
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| 21:12 | <warren> Ryan52: hmm, I set it to =kde and it is going into gnome on a new user
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| 21:13 | <Ryan52> you set LDM_SYSTEMWIDE_DMRC to a path to a file on the server that contains "Session=kde"?
| |
| 21:14 | <warren> oh, you need the full path?
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| 21:14 | like /usr/share/xsessions/kde.desktop you mean?
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| 21:14 | <Ryan52> no...
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| 21:14 | I mean, it's a path to a file like ~/.dmrc
| |
| 21:14 | <warren> ooh
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| 21:14 | <Ryan52> (that's what I thought you were asking for..)
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| 21:15 | <warren> yeah, you're right, that is what I was asking for.
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| 21:15 | <Ryan52> if not, then we can put another rc.d script in rc.d :)
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| 21:15 | <warren> My brain is just stupid
| |
| 21:15 | Ryan52: hmm... might be better to do it without a .desktop file
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| 21:15 | Ryan52: so the user can configure it all in one place instead of two places.
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| 21:16 | Ryan52: like two lts.conf options instead of a lts.conf option and desktop file somewhere
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| 21:16 | <Ryan52> but for different app servers you might want different default session..
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| 21:17 | <warren> hmm
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| 21:17 | Ryan52: OK, but I'm going to add a /etc/somewhere/ldm-dmrc somewhere.
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| 21:18 | packager can decide if they want to ship it
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| 21:19 | <warren> hmm, maybe it isn't working after all
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| 21:19 | <chupacabra> Y'all seen this? http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Virtualization/HP-Offering-Revised-Virtual-Desktop-Infrastructure-Software-Suite/
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| 21:20 | <Ryan52> warren, okay, I'll look at it tomorrow then...
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| 21:26 | <warren> Ryan52: IMHO, push this to trunk now, it will need more cleanup but it works good
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| 21:26 | Ryan52: I'll do more on it tonight and tomorrow
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| 21:27 | <Ryan52> uhhh, what happened to discussing on teh list? :)
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| 21:27 | <warren> Ryan52: forget that
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| 21:28 | <Ryan52> okay :)
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| 21:28 | * Ryan52 pushes | |
| 21:29 | <warren> Ryan52: ok, systemwide works
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| 21:29 | <Ryan52> okay
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| 21:30 | oh, crap, bzr sends out an email per commit...that's like 20 emails :p
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| 21:30 | <warren> just do it
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| 21:31 | <chupacabra> some shy away from mail lists.
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| 21:31 | * Ryan52 remembered that after he saw them in his inbox :p | |
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| 21:55 | <Ryan52> warren, oh, you were supposed to test local devices not local apps...they look too similar.
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| 21:55 | <warren> Ryan52: oh
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| 21:56 | testing now
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| 21:57 | oops, need real hardware for this
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| 22:00 | <Ryan52> really? why? 0.o
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| 22:00 | <warren> Ryan52: because I haven't bothered to setup USB port isolation
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| 22:01 | <Ryan52> does it really need an actually physical device?
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| 22:01 | can't you just use "-hdb blah.img"?
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| 22:02 | <warren> I dunno, haven't tried htat
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| 22:03 | <Ryan52> ltspfsmounter runs on the server or the client?
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| 22:04 | if it runs on the server like I expect, then my code _should_ work fine. otherwise, I need to change it.
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| 22:04 | no testing needed :)
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| 22:04 | <warren> Ryan52: works
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| 22:05 | <Ryan52> and the cleanup thing is ran correctly?
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| 22:05 | <warren> cleaning in what event?
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| 22:05 | * warren boots it again | |
| 22:05 | <Ryan52> if localdevs is on, then it adds "; /usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter all cleanup" to the ssh command..
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| 22:06 | should work, if that's the right context for it to be used in :)
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| 22:06 | (I have no clue what that actually does)
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| 22:06 | * Ryan52 should learn more about how the non ldm pieces of ltsp work.. | |
| 22:07 | <warren> don't know what it does
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| 22:07 | but it seemed to have cleaned up ok
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| 22:07 | <Ryan52> okay.
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| 22:08 | <warren> the entire pile seems to work
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