IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 29 October 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:02 | <cliebow> winds picking up in Seawall!
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| 08:47 | <ltspuser_33> hi
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| 08:47 | <alkisg> Hello
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| 09:01 | <Hyperbyte> Hiiiiiiiiiiiiii
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| 09:44 | <ltspuser_14> Hi
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| 09:45 | How can I use local apps?
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| 09:45 | I need to have all the apps on thin client chroot?
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| 09:47 | <alkisg> Not all of them, just the ones you want
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| 09:47 | <ltspuser_14> ok
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| 09:47 | so when I put in lts.conf local apps true
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| 09:48 | He only runs the ones that are installed in the chroot??
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| 09:48 | or He tries to run all the apps??
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| 09:48 | where I specify the apps?
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| 09:48 | and how?
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| 09:49 | <alkisg> !lts.conf
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| 09:49 | <ltsp> lts.conf: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
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| 09:49 | <alkisg> Check the man page, the variables about local apps
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| 09:49 | LOCAL_APPS_MENU etc
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| 09:55 | <ltspuser_14> ok
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| 09:56 | but can you tell me only which flags I must use to enable LOCAL APSS?
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| 09:57 | <alkisg> LOCAL_APPS and LOCAL_APPS_MENU.
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| 09:57 | <ltspuser_14> only this two??
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| 09:57 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 09:57 | <ltspuser_14> I have never configured with local apps...
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| 09:58 | ok
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| 09:58 | thank you very much
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| 09:59 | LOCAL_APPSLOCAL_APPS_MENU
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| 09:59 | LOCAL_APPS= True LOCAL_APPS_MENU= True
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| 09:59 | right?
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| 10:00 | <alkisg> Right, but basicallyl LOCAL_APPS is already true so you don't need that
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| 10:00 | Just LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True
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| 10:02 | <ltspuser_14> ok
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| 10:02 | thanks
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| 10:02 | <alkisg> You're welcome
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| 10:02 | <ltspuser_14> and every app that is installed on chroot runs on client
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| 10:03 | right??
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| 10:03 | <alkisg> Every app that has a .desktop file (shows up in the menus)
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| 10:03 | <ltspuser_14> I just need to install the apps I want on chroot and enable that flag...
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| 10:03 | yes
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| 10:03 | I know that
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| 10:04 | but how the system knows that should run that particular app in client side?
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| 10:12 | I need to change the .desktop file?
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| 10:43 | <ltspuser_14> I have tried to install scribus on filesystem
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| 10:43 | on chroot
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| 10:43 | but I have this app on ubuntu...
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| 10:44 | and when I use this app, if I go to terminal and check what is running I didn't saw the scribus process
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| 10:45 | anyone knows how this Local Apps works?
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| 11:23 | <alkisg> stgraber: LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT crashes some nouveau-based clients when they open firefox, any advice? Should we just drop X51-opengl?
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| 11:23 | (server has nouveau as well, both mx4000 or something, no proprietary drivers in use)
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| 11:24 | <stgraber> fun... no, we shouldn't remove that as it's making a huge performance difference for hardware supporting it
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| 11:24 | you may want to do a dmi/pci check for the broken ones and make sure there's a kernel/X bug as it really shouldn't crash to start with
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| 11:25 | <alkisg> stgraber: dmi/pci check? How?
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| 11:25 | <stgraber> get the pciid of the card on the client and check for it in X51-opengl if it's confirmed to always affect that card
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| 11:25 | <alkisg> OK
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| 11:34 | <ltspuser_14> anyone?
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| 11:34 | about Local_Apps?
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| 13:09 | <alkisg> !LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT
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| 13:09 | <ltsp> Error: "LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT" is not a valid command.
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| 13:57 | <sbalneav> Good morning all!
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| 13:57 | <alkisg> Hi Scotty! What's up?
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| 13:58 | <sbalneav> Chillin' like a villain.
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| 13:59 | -2 C here
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| 13:59 | Might even snow today.
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| 14:00 | <alkisg> Wow, 15° C here... rainy, but warm enough
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| 14:11 | <ltspuser_82> Hello there
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| 14:12 | Joan from Spain, I need some help
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| 14:16 | <sbalneav> !ask
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| 14:16 | <ltsp> ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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| 14:17 | <ltspuser_82> OK sorry
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| 14:17 | <sbalneav> So, what's the problem?
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| 14:18 | <ltspuser_82> We've got this PC (512 Ram, integrated S3 ), wiht PXE boot, loading a LTSP image (ubuntu 12.04)...
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| 14:18 | lts.conf tells the box to connect via rdesktop to a Terminal Server
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| 14:20 | <ltspuser_82> It connects without problem, everyting seems ok, but if I try to work in Control Panel, o browsing My Computer... it freezes, the whole box
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| 14:21 | <sbalneav> The LTSP terminal freezes? Or the Windows Terminal Server?
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| 14:21 | <ltspuser_82> I can't even move to SCREEN02 where I've got a SHELL
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| 14:21 | The LTSP terminal
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| 14:22 | <sbalneav> it's probably going to be a bug in the S3 video driver.
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| 14:22 | Have you tried throwing in a different video card, and disabling the S3?
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| 14:23 | <ltspuser_82> Good one, I'll try now... Thanks, sbalneav. Couple of minutes and I let you know
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| 14:46 | <ltspuser_82> Hi sbalneav! Tried with an ATI card and after 10 minutes working everything seems OK, no freezed box. Thank you very much
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| 14:46 | <alkisg> ltspuser_82: did you install the s3 graphics driver?
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| 14:47 | It's not preinstalled in ubuntu 12.04
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| 14:49 | <ltspuser_82> ohhh, I see. Well, after installing a second video adapter, and disabling the intagrated S3 vga, the box works fine, no hungs, no freezed so far. But I'll try to install S3 drivers and check if it resolves the problem
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| 14:49 | Than you alkisg
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| 14:50 | <alkisg> xserver-xorg-video-s3
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| 14:50 | In the chroot, + update image
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| 14:50 | <ltspuser_82> Great, thank you very much
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| 14:54 | after chroot, shall I run "apt-get install xserver-xorg-video-s3"?
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| 14:54 | <sbalneav> ltspuser_82: Good to hear. A general rule of thumb is, if you've got any box with an S3 in it, and it's having a problem, it's the S3 that's the problem :)
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| 14:56 | <ltspuser_82> Yeah, so It seemed
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| 14:56 | <alkisg> ltspuser_82: yes, sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install xserver-xorg-video-s3; sudo ltsp-update-image
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| 14:56 | * alkisg has S3 in a few labs, after installing the driver no big problems | |
| 14:57 | <alkisg> Of course it does have some glitches, e.g. if the monitor/xvideo width is not a multiple of 2, it gets tearing
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| 14:57 | But no crashes fortunately
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| 15:19 | <ltspuser_50> Hi
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| 15:20 | how can I put my ldm session with my cdrom drive?
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| 15:20 | <alkisg> You mean to use a cd rom drive to boot instead of booting from the network?
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| 15:25 | <ltspuser_50> no...
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| 15:26 | having access to my cdrom drive like I have access to an usb device
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| 15:26 | in a LDM session
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| 15:27 | <alkisg> Gnome session? You just insert the CD.
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| 15:29 | <ltspuser_50> yes...
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| 15:29 | but I put a blank cd to burn and it didn't worked....
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| 15:29 | <alkisg> Right, cd burning doesn't work
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| 15:29 | You need a cd burner app installed as a "localapp" for this to work
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| 15:30 | <ltspuser_50> oh ok
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| 15:30 | thank you
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| 15:33 | <alkisg> sbalneav: do you think cdpinger isn't needed anymore? http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=5063CC8C.5050301%40gmail.com&forum_name=ltsp-developer
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| 16:10 | <sbalneav> alkisg: Yeah, probably not. cdpinger was written when there were only udev events for when the cdrom was there, not for disk insertion and removal.
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| 16:10 | If udev's providing that, we can probably ditch it.
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| 16:10 | <alkisg> Cool, I hope someone that knows a bit more than me about writing udev rules might have some free time to do that...
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| 17:21 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so, trying to resolve the bashisms in server/ltsp-config and client/share/ltsp/ltsp-cleanup
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| 17:23 | alkisg: i think this might work... sort of: http://paste.debian.net/204728/
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| 17:23 | although that doesn't really mimic the behavior of "read -p" when there's no input.
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| 17:25 | <alkisg> back
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| 17:26 | vagrantc: why is "read -p" bad? Not posix?
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| 17:26 | It's there in dash...
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| 17:26 | <vagrantc> yeah, asking in debian-devel about that one
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| 17:26 | <alkisg> vagrantc: also, I think I had incompatibilities somewhere with echo -n, maybe printf would be better?
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| 17:27 | <vagrantc> works fine in both dash and bash, as far as i can tell
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| 17:27 | <alkisg> Maybe it was -e then
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| 17:27 | And I don't remember well
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| 17:27 | <vagrantc> the "echo -e" behaves wildly different in dash and bash
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| 17:28 | <alkisg> That was it, then
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| 17:28 | <vagrantc> dash effectively always has bash's -e enabled
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| 17:28 | and so outputs -e
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| 17:29 | <alkisg> printf seems to respect the \n that I put there for multiline ranges for dnsmasq, so it sounds fine
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| 17:30 | Wow there's even a bug report to remove read -p from dash!
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| 17:30 | http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=510354
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| 17:31 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 17:35 | alkisg: so, reading debian policy, we're required to only use the listed features, or explicitly use a shell that has the features we want.
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| 17:36 | <alkisg> Posix is fine, I wouldn't want #!/bin/dash there everywhere
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| 17:37 | <vagrantc> don't know how to implement "read -p" in posix, without dozens of lines of code.
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| 17:37 | * alkisg is running ldmgtkgreet within his normal gnome session... fun, it's drawing the logo+entry in one window, and the preferences+time in another | |
| 17:37 | <vagrantc> yup.
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| 17:37 | <alkisg> vagrantc: what's wrong with the one you did?
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| 17:37 | <vagrantc> alkisg: it still outputs the prompt in non-interactive sessions
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| 17:39 | and for the 'echo -e' -> printf ... i'm not positive if printf "$foo\n" or printf "%s\n" "$foo" is the right thing to do
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| 17:40 | or if either are equally valid
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| 17:40 | <alkisg> vagrantc: printf "%b\n" "$foo"
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| 17:41 | (in this particular case where we want the \n control code interpreted)
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| 17:42 | About read -p... should we make a function somewhere in ltsp-common? Does it really matter that echo -n always outputs to stdout even if noninteractive?
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| 17:42 | <vagrantc> and of course i get links to all sorts of specs in debian-devel, and a word from a member of the release team saying not to bother fixing it, essentially.
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| 17:43 | alkisg: i think it's strange to ask a question without waiting for the answer...
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| 17:43 | alkisg: would be confusing in logs of an automated run...
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| 17:46 | alkisg: so i think the 'echo -e' probably slipped by actually as a dash-ism. i.e. we coded it to work with dash, but would break with bash.
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| 17:46 | <alkisg> OK, let's replace that one with printf everywhere
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| 17:47 | That was the advice they once gave me in #bash as well
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| 17:47 | Or, actually, it was "don't ever use echo, use printf instead" :D
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| 17:47 | <vagrantc> yes.
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| 17:48 | <alkisg> $ grep 'read -p' /usr/bin/select-editor
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| 17:48 | read -p "`gettext 'Choose'` 1-$i [$simple]: " -r selected
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| 17:48 | <vagrantc> the only other place we use echo -e is in ltsp-build-client, which relies on other bash features so is explicitly #!/bin/bash
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| 17:49 | well, only other place inn ltsp-trunk
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| 17:49 | seems like ldm and ltspfs are clean, too.
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| 17:51 | er, wait, no... it really is a bashism ... how'd that slip by
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| 17:52 | <alkisg> vagrantc: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1315833/
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| 17:55 | <vagrantc> alkisg: ok. :)
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| 17:56 | even works with posh...
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| 17:57 | could land that in the common-functions...
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| 17:57 | read_prompt?
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| 17:57 | <alkisg> Sounds nice
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| 17:57 | Sure
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| 17:59 | <vagrantc> presuming test -t is consistant...
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| 18:04 | alkisg: http://paste.debian.net/204738/ ?
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| 18:08 | <alkisg> vagrantc: no, no reply should be needed there
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| 18:08 | "$@" are the parameters to read
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| 18:09 | Although a problem is that those shouldn't be local variables...
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| 18:10 | Maybe we should just write 2 lines every time we need read -p:
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| 18:10 | test -t 0 && echo -n prompt
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| 18:10 | read params
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| 18:36 | <vagrantc> alkisg: doesn't seem to work for me the way you're suggesting
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| 18:37 | <alkisg> vagrantc: with the 2 lines?
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| 18:37 | <vagrantc> er, nevermind.
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| 18:37 | i don't understand how it works...
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| 18:38 | read with a single quoted argument shouldn't set any variables.
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| 18:39 | <alkisg> $ set var1 var2
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| 18:39 | $ read "$@"
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| 18:39 | value1 value2
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| 18:39 | $ echo "$var1"
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| 18:39 | value1
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| 18:39 | The "$@" gets processed before it's passed to read
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| 18:39 | So it's actually: read var1 var2
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| 18:48 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so then, this should do it? http://paste.debian.net/204746/
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| 18:49 | <alkisg> vagrantc: the problem with that is that the variable names shouldn't be local
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| 18:49 | I.e.
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| 18:49 | somefunction() {
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| 18:49 | local a b
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| 18:49 | read_prompt a b
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| 18:49 | ==> a and b won't be changed by read_prompt, because they're local
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| 18:50 | <vagrantc> we're not making them local variables... ?
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| 18:50 | <alkisg> OK, but we need to remember that
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| 18:50 | <vagrantc> oh, if you're calling read_prompt from some other function
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| 18:50 | <alkisg> Right
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| 18:50 | So we either stick to the global "REPLY" variable that you introduced, or we write 2 lines every time we need read -p
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| 18:51 | <alkisg> test -t 0 && echo -n prompt; read a b
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| 18:51 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i kind of like the latter approach
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| 18:51 | * alkisg too | |
| 18:52 | <vagrantc> given that, in all of LTSP so far, we've only come across this once...
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| 18:52 | <alkisg> Hey, local variables worked... let me test more...
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| 18:54 | vagrantc: so, using a function is fine in dash, bash, posh
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| 18:54 | <vagrantc> the local worry isn't real?
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| 18:54 | <alkisg> No problem with local variables, read_p can access them normally
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| 18:55 | <vagrantc> ok, so now what's better? :)
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| 18:55 | i don't forsee a lot of this code coming up...
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| 18:57 | * alkisg votes for the function | |
| 18:57 | <alkisg> Even if it's not to be used much
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| 18:58 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so my last paste should work?
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| 18:58 | <alkisg> vagrantc: yup
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| 19:15 | <vagrantc> stgraber: what's with the hardcoding pandaboard configuration in ltsp-update-kernels??
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| 19:16 | er, update-kernels
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| 19:18 | the only hardcoding is really in the mkimage -a and -e arguments, no?
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| 19:20 | seems like you need uboot-mkimage, not flash-kernels.
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| 19:23 | or rather u-boot-tools
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| 19:23 | and does the pandaboard use pxelinux.0 ? is that arch-independent?
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| 19:37 | since a lot of our code is hidden in snippets, checkbashisms doesn't catch some things...
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| 20:32 | <alkisg> Wow I didn't know that LDM supports displaying a combo box with a fixed user list, instead of the username entry box
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| 20:39 | <knipwim> vagrantc: concerning r2396, did you mean to say $foo?
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| 20:46 | <alkisg> Actually "%b\n" "$replace"
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| 20:48 | So, the shift of the LDM logo + entry box a bit to the top is caused by the hiding of the autologin timer entry
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| 20:48 | I haven't yet found out why it's moved to the left after pressing enter...
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| 20:49 | And it's very strange that this is only happening on the first run of LDM, on the next runs it's not shifted to the left...
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| 20:49 | I wonder where some state for that can be stored, since xorg is reset after each time LDM is closed
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| 20:50 | <vagrantc> knipwim: no, i didn't! :)
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| 20:51 | <alkisg> vagrantc: remember not to use "%s" there
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| 20:51 | Use "%b" instead
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| 20:51 | <vagrantc> why not?
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| 20:52 | <alkisg> printf "%s" "two\nlines"
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| 20:52 | printf "%b" "two\nlines"
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| 20:52 | <vagrantc> it's almost like i don't know what i'm doing
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| 20:53 | * vagrantc pouts | |
| 20:53 | <alkisg> %b translates escaped characters to their actual meaning
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| 20:53 | * alkisg hangs vagrantc :) | |
| 20:53 | <alkisg> Or hugs...
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| 20:53 | errr :D
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| 20:53 | * alkisg opens the dict | |
| 20:53 | <vagrantc> pretty significant difference...
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| 20:54 | <alkisg> Yeah definately the second one :D
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| 20:57 | * vagrantc wonders if i should use %b for 2398 too | |
| 20:59 | <alkisg> ./client/share/ltsp/screen.d/xdmcp: error_delay "xserver failed, press <enter> to continue "
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| 20:59 | ./client/share/ltsp/screen.d/startx: error_delay "xserver failed, press <enter> to continue "
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| 20:59 | ==> doesn't matter... I'd use %b for consistence
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| 20:59 | consistency, damn I completely forgot my english today
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| 21:01 | echo -e wasn't even used there, it could be dropped
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| 21:11 | <vagrantc> just switch to "echo"?
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| 21:11 | <alkisg> Sounds fine
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| 21:11 | echo -n
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| 21:12 | <alkisg> vagrantc: err #2
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| 21:12 | echo -n -e "\n\rERROR: $1"
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| 21:12 | The -e is there for \n\r, not for $1
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| 21:12 | My bad
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| 21:12 | <vagrantc> yeah, printf is needed...
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| 21:13 | <alkisg> So either leave it as is, or just put %b for consistency, printf "\n\rERROR: %b" "$1"
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| 21:13 | <vagrantc> notably, printf %s isn't even in the manpage
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| 21:13 | <alkisg> and all C format specifications ending with one of diouxXfeEgGcs
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| 21:13 | The last one
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| 21:14 | <vagrantc> ah
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| 21:14 | so is %b then not all that portable?
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| 21:15 | <alkisg> %b ARGUMENT as a string with `\' escapes interpreted, except that octal escapes are of the form \0 or \0NNN
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| 21:15 | Since it's in the man page, I assume it's portable
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| 21:15 | <vagrantc> most of the documentation recommends using %s ... so i wonder why
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| 21:16 | <alkisg> Maybe they have no need for escaped strings as a parameter, they put it in the fixed string instead
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| 21:17 | <alkisg> We could also put the parameter inside the format string: printf "$parameter"
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| 21:17 | But then we'd need to be careful when using format specifiers, %s etc in the parameter
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| 21:17 | So I vote for %b
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| 21:18 | Anyway, 'night all...
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| 21:18 | <vagrantc> thanks, as always!
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| 21:18 | * alkisg thanks vagrantc for fixing the bashisms :) | |
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| 21:19 | <vagrantc> doh!
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| 21:19 | %b is apparently also a problem.
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| 21:20 | according to checkbashisms
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| 21:24 | or it's not consistant...
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| 21:24 | <||cw> and dash has no equiv?
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| 21:25 | isn't one way around a bash specific feature to use /bin/bash instead of /bin/sh ? or is that "not allowed"?
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| 21:25 | <vagrantc> it's not really technically bash vs. dash ... it's compatiible implementations of printf
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| 21:25 | it's allowed, just better to find a more portable way if possible
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| 21:44 | <huizache> hello
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| 21:45 | I understand the workstation should connect to the thinclient throught ethernet. what kind of ethernet card should the workstation have?
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| 21:51 | <muppis> Workstation is the thinclient. PXE capable eth is nice, but iPXE gives a working wworkaround.
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| 21:53 | <vagrantc> there aren't many network cards these days that don't support PXE, are there?
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| 21:54 | <muppis> Not really. All onboard's do support it at least.
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| 21:54 | <vagrantc> at least, for x86
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| 21:56 | huizache: you want gigabit on the server at least...
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| 21:56 | dunn what you mean by workstation and thin client ...
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| 22:23 | <huizache> ok, sorry, was mistaken workstation for server
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| 22:23 | so i need a gigabit for the server
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| 22:23 | but how do so many clients connect to the server?
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| 22:36 | ok
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| 22:36 | got it
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| 22:36 | i need a switch
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| 22:36 | thank you
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| 22:49 | <gvy> there are cheaper switches that have one or two gigabit ports and the rest are 100Mbps
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| 22:49 | in case every penny is 2012
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| 23:06 | <stgraber> vagrantc: I'd have to recheck later (at UDS), can't remember for the dependency, we indeed need mkimage to generate the image and flash-kernel would be the way of getting something generic to work on all boards. pxelinux.0 isn't used, only the pxelinux.cfg/* files are retrieved by the u-boot netboot code
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| 23:28 | <vagrantc> stgraber: cool.
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| 23:28 | stgraber: i was thinking of putting the hard-coded stuff into update-kernels.conf
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| 23:29 | in debian (and i think recent versions of ubuntu), mkimage is part of u-boot-tools
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| 23:30 | would probably be good to put a depends or recommends on u-boot-tools
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