IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 24 April 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:15 | <empiric> any one did heartbeat with ltsp?
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| 01:15 | for failover with another ltsp server
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| 01:16 | <daduke> empiric: not yet, but we might at some point. How far have you gotten?
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| 01:16 | <empiric> well doing HA on my ltsp server
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| 01:17 | also need drbd to replicate my /home partition
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| 01:18 | <daduke> empiric: what's your cluster resource(s)? IP address? anything else?
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| 01:18 | <empiric> well am doing it internally
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| 01:18 | will share with you
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| 01:18 | am doing setup right now
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| 01:18 | if any help is provided it would be great
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| 01:19 | <daduke> empiric: I've built a debian/drdb/heartbeat setup, but for xen, not for ltsp
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| 01:19 | <empiric> letok
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| 01:19 | can you share
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| 01:20 | <daduke> empiric: without having thought about it for more than 2 min I should think that the IP address is the only cluster resource you'd need.
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| 01:20 | <empiric> hmm think soo
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| 01:21 | mainly it is ip
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| 01:21 | <daduke> empiric: do you have /home locally on the server?
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| 01:22 | <empiric> yes
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| 01:22 | its where all ltsp users stores files
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| 01:23 | <daduke> if you don't need seamless takeover drdb + ext3 should be fine. what distro you on?
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| 01:31 | <empiric> kubuntu
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| 01:31 | its ext3
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| 01:31 | wellseam less is goodd
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| 01:34 | <daduke> for seamless you'd need a real cluster fs. GFS or OCFS2. I've spent a fair amount of time trying to get OCFS running on an etch heartbeat cluster. the problem is: OCFS uses disk based heartbeating (their own). but to avoid split brain hell, OCFS heartbeating has be integrated into HA heartbeating. Only SLES has managed to do that. I've tried porting their patches to debian, but it didn't work in the end - too many changes in too many places
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| 02:01 | <Pascal_1> hello
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| 02:02 | i'm trying to make eepc ltsp client, does anybody try this? my actually problem is a "kernell panic" can't open /tmp/net-eth0.conf
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| 02:46 | <empiric> daduke then how i do drbd + ext3
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| 02:48 | <daduke> !pastebot
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| 02:48 | <ltspbot> daduke: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
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| 02:51 | <daduke> empiric: I haven't written the real docs yet, but my note are here:
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| 02:51 | <ltsppbot> "daduke" pasted "preliminary cluster docs" (77 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/515
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| 02:52 | <empiric> thanks
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| 02:52 | will see taht
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| 02:55 | <daduke> empiric: it will give you drbd'd filesystems that you can mount on one of the cluster nodes at a time.
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| 02:58 | <empiric> hmmm
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| 02:58 | ok
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| 02:58 | it means i can not use both my ltsp servers at the same time
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| 02:59 | one should be online and passive
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| 03:00 | <daduke> empiric: if you want that, I think you'll need something like NFS homes. that's what we do here.
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| 03:00 | <empiric> means a 3 third machine which act as a NFS
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| 03:02 | <daduke> empiric: otherwise, you might consider something like our xen cluster: domUs that can migrate between the cluster nodes. make one of them your NFS server.
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| 05:36 | <ogra> oh how i love that pre release excitement :)
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| 05:52 | <ogra> laga, did you see the ubuntu mediacenter thread on -devel-discuss ? someone is heavily pushing for elisa there
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| 06:13 | <generic> hi all
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| 06:13 | i want
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| 06:13 | to do my ltsp on HA
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| 06:13 | i ahve 2 ltsp servers
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| 06:14 | what service should be in HA
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| 06:19 | <ogra> generic, like that ? https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDHCPload-balancingFailover
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| 06:25 | <generic> ogra i need to have dhcp in ha
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| 06:26 | right
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| 06:26 | right now ma testing heart beat on real=192.168.1.1:80 gate
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| 06:26 | port 80 which is web
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| 06:28 | <generic> well
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| 06:28 | for lTSp to be on HA
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| 06:28 | what i need to do
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| 06:28 | <ogra> well, for an ubuntu r debian setup with ltsp5 the above should suffice, many people use it that way
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| 06:29 | <generic> the link is not opening
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| 06:31 | <ogra> the wiki is a bit loaded atm, we'Re about to release ubuntu 8.04 within the next hours
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| 06:31 | sorry for that
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| 06:31 | it will ooad eventually, give it some time
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| 06:49 | <laga> ogra: i thought that the ubuntu media centre edition is already using elisa?!
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| 06:49 | ogra: i never heard good things about it.. i might read the thread later, right now it would make my head explode ;)
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| 06:50 | <ogra> well, they want to have it included as default install option
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| 06:50 | thought you wanted to know about that
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| 06:51 | <laga> ogra: AFAIK, elisa is backed by fluendo. if you want to play some codecs, you've got to pay
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| 06:51 | <ogra> yeah
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| 06:51 | for some at least
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| 06:52 | <laga> i don't think it can do TV either
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| 06:54 | no, it can't. well, i can't prevent them from using silly software ;)
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| 06:55 | <ogra> well, you could chime in with the working mythbuntu solution :)
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| 06:55 | and get more hackers
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| 06:57 | <laga> mythbuntu is not particularly user friendly (unfortunately), and ubuntu seems to be about that
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| 06:57 | oops.
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| 06:58 | i meant to say "mythtv". mythbuntu certainly tries very hard to be userfriendly :)
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| 06:58 | <ogra> make it userfriendly :) get the mediacenter guys involved to help :)
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| 06:58 | * ogra will test mythbuntu diskless next week if he has the release stuff off the sholders | |
| 06:59 | <ogra> finally time to instal my TV card and have a silent VCR in my living room :)
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| 06:59 | <laga> great :)
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| 07:00 | the documentation for mythbuntu diskless is almost finished. but i guess you won't need it :)
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| 07:00 | <ogra> well, lest see what bugs i find :)
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| 07:00 | <laga> scary.
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| 07:00 | ;)
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| 07:09 | * ogra wonders if #ubuntu-release-party will pass the 700 ppl mark before the release announcement | |
| 07:09 | hersonls has joined #ltsp | |
| 07:09 | * laga wonders if parties on IRC aren't a little bit odd | |
| 07:09 | <ogra> nah
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| 07:10 | share the pre-release excitement over the world :)
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| 07:10 | have you seen that channel ?
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| 07:10 | its a madhouse :)
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| 07:10 | <laga> hm
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| 07:10 | <ogra> nearly 700ppl waiting in awe for a mail :)
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| 07:10 | * laga ponders trolling ;) | |
| 07:11 | <ogra> they will kick you
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| 07:11 | <laga> yeah
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| 07:11 | <ogra> over a certain threshold at least :)
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| 07:11 | <laga> i'm already running the latest & greatest. so i've had enough excitement ;)
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| 07:11 | <ogra> woah, #ubuntu nears the 1700 ppl mark
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| 07:13 | <laga> dear binary printer driver, please stop using all my spare cpu cycles, therefore making my laptop run warm which causes some uncomfortableness on my laptop. love, laga
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| 07:22 | <Q-FUNK> hehe
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| 07:22 | it's download time
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| 07:22 | <laga> yup
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| 07:23 | <ogra> yeah, there we go
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| 07:24 | <laga> gentlemen, start your torrent clients
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| 07:25 | <ogra> ha, now #ubuntu-release-party has 705
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| 07:26 | damned i would have won 5€ if it hit that 10 mins ago
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| 07:31 | <tarzeau> it's really funny
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| 07:34 | <Q-FUNK> heh
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| 07:34 | <tarzeau> do you remember the billennium unix second party?
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| 07:35 | <tarzeau> i still got the logs, it was soooo uber-fun
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| 08:30 | <warren> Q-FUNK: question from a former OLPC engineer, have you considered openfirmware instead of coreboot?
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| 08:30 | Q-FUNK: they found it a lot easier to work with
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| 08:37 | <Q-FUNK> warren: of course they did. they are engineers. they want a hackable boot prompt. :)
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| 08:37 | warren: dilinger is considering porting it to the thincan. no idea if he ever will.
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| 08:38 | * ogra dances around warren with a release in his hands ... | |
| 08:38 | <ogra> ... now you
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| 08:38 | :)
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| 08:38 | <Q-FUNK> :D
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| 08:39 | ogra: we're cheating. they're only a few days away from it. :)
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| 08:39 | warren: when are you releasing again? tomorrow?
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| 08:39 | <ogra> heh
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| 08:39 | <Q-FUNK> I remember you said this week, but not when exactly
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| 08:40 | <ogra> Q-FUNK, they postponed to may i heard
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| 08:40 | rumors at least :)
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| 08:42 | <warren> Q-FUNK: we delayed our release until may 13th I think
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| 08:42 | <warren> Q-FUNK: more stabilization
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| 08:42 | Q-FUNK: we're using crazy newer versions of stuff than Ubuntu across the board
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| 08:43 | Q-FUNK: I'm disturbed that mkelfImage requires hard coding boot prompt options into the elf image.
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| 08:43 | this completely defeats my desire to decouple update-kernels from boot options
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| 08:43 | <ogra> warren, but you dont have a 5 year support setup for that release, we were pertty conservative because of that
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| 08:43 | <warren> I'm seeing if I can possibly chain load anything to emulate PXE instead.
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| 08:44 | ogra: nod.
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| 08:45 | <Q-FUNK> ogra: ...not that it prevented me from shooting myself in the foot with amd->geode.
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| 08:45 | <ogra> Q-FUNK, but thats something we can get sorted
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| 08:46 | <Blinny> Who do I need to bribe to get a module updated to the stable release in ubuntu-kernel? Hardy didn't include the stable version.
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| 08:47 | <ogra> did you plan to come to prague ?
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| 08:47 | Blinny, #ubuntu-kernel .... we have a mechanism to updae modules
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| 08:48 | <warren> sigh, chain loading wont work
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| 08:48 | <Blinny> ogra: Cool, thanks.
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| 08:58 | ray_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:58 | <ray_> hi, I had some questions about ltsp ... and I was wondering if someone may be able to answer them ...
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| 09:00 | <pscheie> ray_, ask away
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| 09:00 | <ray_> basically, I've been trying to set up a set of client machines to use as disk based thin clients ... and running a barebones version of linux on them, and then starting up rdesktop to connect to a windows server ...
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| 09:01 | it works great ... but with one problem ... i can't easily connect local devices such as floppy disks, and USB drives etc to the server ... since rdesktop has already been invoked ...
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| 09:02 | i guess my question, as it relates to ltsp, is ... can ltsp do this sort of thing with rdesktop, or will that be a problem there as well ...
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| 09:02 | <Gadi> ray_: on ur disk-based clients, do: rdesktop -r disk:drives=/media ....
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| 09:03 | then, in Windows go to My Computer "drives on <hostname>"
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| 09:03 | <Q-FUNK> ogra: ah, thanks for reminding me. May... 25, was it?
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| 09:04 | <ray_> yea ... that was my goal ... only problem is this type of situation ... :user walkes up to the terminal and logs into the windows terminal ... and then puts their floppy disk, or flash drive in the system ... rdesktop has already been started, so i don't know any information about the drives they put in ...
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| 09:05 | <ray_> i was messing around with ivman to automatically mount the usb disk ... but the only problem is ... sometimes there may not be a disk, or it may be named with a different name depending on the partitions / drive brand etc ..
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| 09:05 | <Gadi> ray_: sure it does
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| 09:05 | <Gadi> it will appear magically in a folder under rives
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| 09:05 | *drives
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| 09:05 | it just appears in windows as a folder and not a drive
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| 09:06 | ie, redirect the whole /media directory
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| 09:06 | the folders are created by Linux
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| 09:06 | <ray_> yea ... i got that part ... but only after mounting the floppy disk manually at the command prompt ... and THEN running the command for rdesktop ...
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| 09:06 | oh ...
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| 09:06 | you can do that? ...
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| 09:06 | <Gadi> no, launch rdesktop fullscreen from within xfce or some such
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| 09:07 | something with a volume manager
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| 09:07 | the volume manager is part of the desktop
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| 09:07 | these days
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| 09:07 | <Q-FUNK> ogra: can you think of any way to convince vorlon to allow 2.9.0 into 8.04.1? it's a new upstream, but it closes bugs and relieves the tension with a key canonical partner (koolu).
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| 09:07 | <ray_> i was hoping to go as bare bones as possible ... with no way to break out to a windows manager ....
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| 09:07 | <Gadi> well, you can, but it gets trickier with a lot more hacking
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| 09:07 | there's no "canned" way
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| 09:08 | but, XFCE is very light
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| 09:08 | <ray_> it seems that installing ivman mostly did the trick ...
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| 09:09 | <ray_> so ... with the rdesktop command ... would you just say something like "rdesktop -r disk:MEDIA=/media
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| 09:09 | "
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| 09:09 | <warren> edubuntu.org wiki is really slow
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| 09:09 | <ray_> i don't know if that would take care of the floppy mount ...
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| 09:10 | <Q-FUNK> anyone has any idea for liquidating our old stock of DBE60 as Etherboot terminals? they're already priced dirt cheap, but people seem to shun them becuase they are built on an older Geode variant.
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| 09:10 | <ray_> yea ... the ubuntu wiki is really slow (or not responding at all) i noticed ...
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| 09:11 | <Gadi> ray_: Linux takes care of all mounting
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| 09:12 | but only if you have a volume manager
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| 09:12 | <daduke> Q-FUNK: unfortunately XGA isn't enough for our needs
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| 09:13 | <ray_> yea ... i'll give that a try .. i know you can run nautilus in the background to take care of automounts ... i messed around with that a little bit in fluxbox ..
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| 09:14 | <ray_> gadi ... do you know about the delayed writes, or how to "unmount" the vol. safely? ...
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| 09:14 | <Gadi> not nautilus - gnome-volume-manager
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| 09:14 | ah, well for that we came up with ltspfs
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| 09:15 | you need some sort of automounter
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| 09:15 | <ray_> maybe that was it .. i was using nautilus somewhere in that equation with fluxbox : )
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| 09:15 | i thought i had read somewhere that fuse was being used ...
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| 09:16 | <Q-FUNK> I was thinking that someone who is really strapped on cash and has access to a bunch of 15" VGA to setup a class of LTSP terminals could use them, but there doesn't seem to be too much interest
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| 09:16 | <ray_> so it would just idle out at 2 seconds ... make the writes to the disk, and let you take out the disk without much worry ...
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| 09:17 | <Gadi> right
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| 09:18 | <ray_> is there a way to take advantage of that ... without going the full ltsp route? ...
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| 09:19 | <ogra> Q-FUNK, no, but we can add a patch to the existing package i'm pretty sure autofoo is fine as long as you point out only the actual patch in the SRU and note it needs an autocrap run
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| 09:19 | <ray_> i would love to use ltsp ... but in my environment ... i don't have access to the network equipment, so i can't do the PXE and tftp stuff ...
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| 09:20 | <Gadi> ray_: are the users *only* using rdesktop?
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| 09:21 | <ray_> basically ... yea ... the situation here is that I'm setting up these stations for users here in a library ... and the'll connect to a windows server running terminal services ...
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| 09:21 | all they should see is a login prompt ...
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| 09:22 | <Gadi> have a look at thinstation
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| 09:22 | <Q-FUNK> ogra: in that case, we already have a patch. where could I upload it for proposed-updates?
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| 09:22 | <ray_> for their windows login ...
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| 09:22 | <Gadi> im sure they tackle this issue, too
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| 09:22 | and they are more geared towards boot-from-disk
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| 09:22 | <ogra> Q-FUNK, talk to pitti in -devel
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| 09:22 | Q-FUNK, it needs the paperwork first to not get rejected
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| 09:23 | warren, al our sites get hit pretty hard on release day usually ... probably not the best day to look up info on one of the ubuntu wikis
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| 09:23 | <ray_> it's just surprising there isn't already a solution to do this with rdesktop ...
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| 09:23 | or ... maybe there's a commercial one out there ...
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| 09:23 | <Q-FUNK> ogra: then again, I have a sneaking suspicion that X core also needs patching, as LTSP no longer detects our dbe61 correctly, since the switch from amd->geode
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| 09:24 | <Gadi> well, I know there's a *commercial* one out there
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| 09:24 | :)
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| 09:24 | <ogra> Q-FUNK, well, 8.04.1 is due in july, plenty of time to figure out the bits and pieces and to get them tested
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| 09:24 | <ray_> yea : ) ... exactly ... bah! ... it's bad enough we're stuck connecting to a windows box ...
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| 09:25 | but ... like we talked about ... it sounds like redirecting the entire folder for /media is the way to go right now ...
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| 09:25 | i wonder if there's a way to speed up the delay for writing to the USB vol ...
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| 09:27 | <ogra> Q-FUNK, i see already uploads to -proposed on hardy-changes btw
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| 09:27 | <warren> I really want to avoid hard coding bootprompt options into my elf image
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| 09:28 | I'm looking into chain loading a PXE capable loader instead, but I guess that isn't possible to do in a generic way.
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| 09:28 | (works with any network card)
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| 09:28 | <Q-FUNK> ogra: ok, good to know. wanna sponsor pick up some goodies from my PPA and sponsor them, if I prepackage?
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| 09:29 | <ogra> Q-FUNK, next week, if i'm dont with the last classmate bits
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| 09:29 | weekend will still keep me busy with hardy :/
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| 09:29 | <Q-FUNK> ok
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| 09:29 | yes, same thing here. mostly debugging why X 1.4 is still such a mess
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| 09:31 | <ray_> by the way ... thanks for all the help ...
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| 09:43 | <Blinny> ogra: Is aliasing a non-LTSP subnet address to a LTSP gig NIC a bad idea? Back when I used to do IP aliasing heavily on Sun Sparcs the system would bog down under heavy load b/c every packet was inspected for source/destination/etc.
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| 09:44 | Erm, well, I suppose that's a question for the room. Apologies for direct addressing.
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| 09:49 | <warren> vagrantc: ogra: have you tried to get older Etherboot to chain load gPXE in order to avoid mkelfImage?
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| 09:50 | <ogra> nope
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| 10:00 | <vagrantc> warren: not i
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| 10:00 | warren: i have chain-loaded etherboot though
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| 10:00 | PXE -> etherboot
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| 10:00 | and etherboot -> etherboot
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| 10:00 | <warren> yeah, that's all the docs I can find online
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| 10:00 | how do you do etherboot to etherboot?
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| 10:01 | <vagrantc> well, i had different versions of etherboot so i could distinguish the two
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| 10:01 | <warren> any URL describing how to etherboot -> etherboot?
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| 10:03 | <vagrantc> never found any documentation really ... you just need to use the .lilo or .zlilo etherboot and pass that in the filename
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| 10:03 | instead of the nbi.img or kernel or whatever
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| 10:03 | <warren> ahhh
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| 10:04 | <vagrantc> warren: but typically etherboot only has a limited set of supported network cards ... what's gPXE ?
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| 10:04 | <ogra> is that grub2 stuff ?
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| 10:05 | <warren> vagrantc: gPXE seems to be the newer etherboot
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| 10:05 | <Q-FUNK> yes and no
| |
| 10:05 | etherboot doesn't need a real bios to load it
| |
| 10:05 | but gPXE does, because it depends upon traditional bios features
| |
| 10:06 | so we cannot build an image with coreboot and gPXE
| |
| 10:06 | <vagrantc> so chain-loading gPXE isn't going to work around mkelflinux, then?
| |
| 10:06 | * warren REALLY wants to avoid hardcoding bootprompt args in the elf image | |
| 10:06 | <warren> Q-FUNK: our former OLPC engineers suggested openfirmware is a lot less trouble than coreboot + etherboot
| |
| 10:07 | <vagrantc> warren: have you looked into passing them via dhcp?
| |
| 10:07 | <warren> vagrantc: any example of how?
| |
| 10:07 | <vagrantc> warren: i'll look around
| |
| 10:08 | i think it was possible with mkelf-linux ... hopefully mkelfimage also has the ability to do so
| |
| 10:08 | <ogra> warren, former ? did fedora drop the ball ?
| |
| 10:08 | pimpministerp has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:08 | <warren> ogra: we have engineers rotating in and out of it
| |
| 10:09 | <ogra> ah
| |
| 10:09 | <warren> one of the earlier engineers was there when they were still fighting linuxbios
| |
| 10:09 | they found openfirmware to be far less trouble
| |
| 10:10 | <Q-FUNK> it's not less trouble. it's just easier to thinker with.
| |
| 10:10 | it's essentially a geek toy.
| |
| 10:10 | gonzaloaf has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:10 | <Q-FUNK> make your bootloader cook and do the dishes= OF
| |
| 10:10 | <warren> don't sparc and apple use it?
| |
| 10:11 | <ogra> apple did
| |
| 10:11 | they dont anymore
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| 10:11 | <warren> oh?
| |
| 10:11 | <ogra> they use x86 now ...
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| 10:12 | no point in that
| |
| 10:12 | <Q-FUNK> they use EFI
| |
| 10:12 | <ogra> right
| |
| 10:12 | <Q-FUNK> OF is nicely thought, but it's really a geek toy.
| |
| 10:12 | pimpministerp has quit IRC | |
| 10:13 | cliebow has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:13 | Arauto has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:14 | <Q-FUNK> but it's not much different than running grub2 on top of coreboot
| |
| 10:14 | and coreboot 3 works nicely for that
| |
| 10:14 | tux_440volt has quit IRC | |
| 10:15 | <warren> sigh
| |
| 10:16 | <ogra> warren, you need to regenerate the image anyway for changes why not go with it like that fr one release and we figure out something nice over time
| |
| 10:17 | <warren> ogra: for what kind of changes?
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| 10:17 | <ogra> well, an eherboot image merges vmlinuz and initrd into one file
| |
| 10:17 | <warren> I'm not against that part
| |
| 10:18 | <ogra> changes to initrd mean regenerating the image anyway
| |
| 10:18 | <warren> changes to initrd are only necessary on kernel upgrades
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| 10:22 | makghosh has quit IRC | |
| 10:23 | <vagrantc> warren: in dhcpd.conf: option option-129 "$BOOTPROMPT_OPTS";
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| 10:23 | warren: should work with etherboot, at least
| |
| 10:23 | http://www.etherboot.org/doc/html/userman/a838.html
| |
| 10:24 | <warren> vagrantc: thanks
| |
| 10:24 | <vagrantc> warren: you may also need to specify the magic etherboot option: option option-128 E4:45:74:68:00:00;
| |
| 10:24 | <warren> OK, so this means I have two independent places to put boot arts...
| |
| 10:24 | <vagrantc> otherwise it might ignore 129
| |
| 10:24 | warren: that appends to an existing boot prompt option, rather than overwriting it entirely, though.
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| 10:25 | Pascal_2 has quit IRC | |
| 10:26 | <vagrantc> warren: oh, the exact syntax is broken with 3.x of isc dhcpd ... there's a note at the bottom about it
| |
| 10:26 | warren: but you can find examples of the new syntax in ...
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| 10:27 | pimpministerp has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:27 | <vagrantc> warren: ltsp-trunk/server/configs/k12linux/dhcpd.conf :)
| |
| 10:27 | <warren> we have 4.0 isc dhcpd
| |
| 10:27 | <vagrantc> egads!
| |
| 10:27 | <Q-FUNK> that's out already?
| |
| 10:27 | is FC9 codenamed raw hide?
| |
| 10:28 | <warren> I have no idea
| |
| 10:28 | * vagrantc wonders if isc decided to break anything major | |
| 10:28 | <warren> we have *the* ISC dhcpd lead developer on staff now
| |
| 10:28 | staffencasa has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:28 | <ogra> cool
| |
| 10:29 | <warren> it is more like, nobody else cared for a long time, and he was the last person to touch it, so now he's doomed to own it.
| |
| 10:29 | <ogra> heh
| |
| 10:29 | <warren> looks like we've been building dhcp-4.0.0 since january
| |
| 10:29 | * ogra wast aware 4.0 was production ready | |
| 10:29 | <warren> it seems OK here
| |
| 10:29 | <ogra> *wasnt
| |
| 10:30 | <Q-FUNK> warren: ... mellon?
| |
| 10:30 | <warren> ?
| |
| 10:30 | I don't know the full story
| |
| 10:30 | <Q-FUNK> the guy
| |
| 10:30 | <warren> Cantrell
| |
| 10:30 | * ogra thought Q-FUNK was handing out fruit | |
| 10:30 | <Q-FUNK> :D
| |
| 10:31 | <cliebow> heehee!
| |
| 10:31 | <laga> ogra: when did the media centre discussion happen on ubuntu-devel? i can't see it in the archives.
| |
| 10:32 | <ogra> laga, devel-discuss
| |
| 10:32 | iscussion agenda for UDS-Intrepid around the integration of Elisa media center
| |
| 10:32 | <warren> vagrantc: so actually the syntax in my ltsp-dhcpd.conf should already work
| |
| 10:32 | <laga> ogra: argh. yeah, i've just seen it. i didn't realize i have to scroll down.
| |
| 10:33 | <vagrantc> warren: i believe so
| |
| 10:33 | <cliebow> ogra:this mean anything to you?looks like panel starts to laod then dies..
| |
| 10:33 | <Blinny> Does LinuxMCE use LTSP to boot their diskless media centers or do they do something on their own?
| |
| 10:33 | <cliebow> _cairo_format_from_pixman_format: Assertion `NOT_REACHED' failed.
| |
| 10:33 | <vagrantc> warren: and here i spent a while searching the whole of the intarweb ... only to look in my ltsp-trunk checkout :)
| |
| 10:33 | <Blinny> Hmm
| |
| 10:34 | <warren> vagrantc: eh
| |
| 10:34 | vagrantc: all we have is:
| |
| 10:34 | option option-128 code 128 = string;
| |
| 10:34 | option option-129 code 129 = text;
| |
| 10:34 | option option-221 code 221 = text;
| |
| 10:35 | <vagrantc> warren: and some commented examples of how to use option-1299
| |
| 10:35 | er, 129
| |
| 10:37 | <cliebow> t'hell with it..dist-upgrade..
| |
| 10:37 | <Blinny> heh
| |
| 10:38 | <cliebow> get a whole new set of issues to work with..tired of the old ones ;-]
| |
| 10:42 | weeeee!
| |
| 10:44 | <Gadi> option 221?
| |
| 10:44 | VPN?
| |
| 10:45 | <vagrantc> Gadi: most of the option numbers aren't standardized
| |
| 10:46 | <warren> oh this really sucks
| |
| 10:46 | vendor class identifier "Etherboot-5.4" on both a PXE capable client and PXE incapable client
| |
| 10:46 | I might not be able to get both to work out of the box with the same dhcpd.conf
| |
| 10:46 | <vagrantc> warren: you're chainloading etherboot?
| |
| 10:47 | <warren> vagrantc: no
| |
| 10:47 | vagrantc: trying to boot the thincan using an elf image I created with mkelfImage
| |
| 10:47 | but not getting that far even
| |
| 10:47 | it is trying to load pxelinux.0
| |
| 10:47 | <vagrantc> oh.
| |
| 10:47 | <warren> because its vendor class identifier is not unique
| |
| 10:47 | <Gadi> vagrantc: /me wonders what warren uses 221 for
| |
| 10:47 | <warren> Gadi: I have no idea where that came from
| |
| 10:48 | <vagrantc> yes, i don't know if there's a way to distinguish PXE capable etherboot from non-PXE capable etherboot
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| 10:48 | <ogra> cliebow, use update-manager *dont* dist-upgrade
| |
| 10:48 | <warren> Gadi: copied from eharrison
| |
| 10:48 | <laga> ogra: btw, why? does update-manager add specific hacks?
| |
| 10:48 | <Gadi> ah - maybe its a Mac thing
| |
| 10:48 | :)
| |
| 10:48 | yaboot, et al
| |
| 10:48 | <ogra> laga, tons, yes
| |
| 10:48 | <vagrantc> warren: but etherboot since 5.4 has defaulted to PXE support ... this is not the case with the thincan ?
| |
| 10:48 | <laga> ogra: that's bad :/
| |
| 10:49 | <ogra> laga, every failure that showed up in a test during the last three months is covered by it
| |
| 10:49 | <warren> vagrantc: there's both PXE and coreboot + etherboot thincan
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| 10:49 | vagrantc: the PXE one is fine
| |
| 10:49 | <ogra> we highly discourage apt-get dist-upgrade since about two years
| |
| 10:49 | <laga> ogra: were those failures also fixed in the packages themselves?
| |
| 10:49 | <ogra> but people dont listen and trash their systems
| |
| 10:49 | <warren> hmm
| |
| 10:49 | Client MAC address: ArtecGro_00:05:85 (00:18:2d:00:05:85)
| |
| 10:49 | <cliebow> ogra:righto..
| |
| 10:49 | <ogra> laga, there is nothing fixable
| |
| 10:49 | <Gadi> warren: so the PXE-based thin can reports a VCI of Etherboot?
| |
| 10:50 | <warren> Gadi: yes
| |
| 10:50 | <Gadi> yuck
| |
| 10:50 | <warren> Gadi: some Etherboot can do PXE, others can't
| |
| 10:50 | <ogra> laga, conffile changes, dpkg --configure runs you would need to run manually with certain package combos etc
| |
| 10:50 | <cliebow> pgra: you strongly urged this last time i borked my system ;-]
| |
| 10:50 | <Gadi> right - but I thought the PXE_based thincan uses commercial PXE
| |
| 10:50 | <warren> yes
| |
| 10:51 | <Gadi> so, its VCI should be PXEClient
| |
| 10:51 | or some such
| |
| 10:51 | <ogra> laga, definately never ever recommend dist-upgrade to anyone wanting to do a release upgrade
| |
| 10:51 | <laga> ogra: ah. conffile changes would cause a prompt. nothing an experienced user can't handle ;)
| |
| 10:51 | ogra: ok, i wont
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| 10:51 | <warren> Gadi: commercial PXE is PXEClient
| |
| 10:51 | <cliebow> so much traffic..i can wait a few days..
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| 10:51 | <warren> Gadi: my problem is some etherboot (like qemu) can do real PXE while this cant.
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| 10:51 | <ogra> laga, there is more, conffile prompts are just a prominent example ...
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| 10:51 | <warren> and both identify themselves as Etherboot-5.4
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| 10:52 | <vagrantc> warren: keep adding numbers ...
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| 10:52 | <warren> ?
| |
| 10:52 | <laga> ogra: i'll just have to believe you then :)
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| 10:52 | <vagrantc> warren: Etherboot-5.4.12 ...
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| 10:52 | for example
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| 10:52 | <ogra> cliebow, just make sure to have gutsy-updates enabled and have the latest update-manager installed ...
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| 10:52 | <Gadi> you are burning a new etherboot into the thincan?
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| 10:52 | <ogra> it will show a button to upgrade to hardy by defaut if you have the right version
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| 10:52 | <warren> vagrantc: I did a tcpdump of the thincan with coreboot + etherboot, it is only "Etherboot-5.4"
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| 10:53 | <vagrantc> warren: ok, and the other etherboot machines?
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| 10:53 | <warren> vagrantc: "Etherboot-5.4" as well
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| 10:53 | <vagrantc> for shame.
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| 10:53 | <warren> yeah
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| 10:53 | <Gadi> if you are doing the burning, can you not adjust the VCI?
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| 10:53 | <warren> It might not be possible to do this out of the box now.
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| 10:53 | Gadi: I didn't do any burning
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| 10:54 | <Blinny> apt-get is deprecated anyway, right?
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| 10:54 | <warren> I don't know how to burn
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| 10:54 | <Gadi> you are using a new etherboot image, no?
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| 10:54 | <vagrantc> warren: so your goal is ... to get this model
| |
| 10:54 | * Gadi is so confused | |
| 10:54 | ray_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:54 | <warren> Gadi: I'm just trying to boot this thincan with its coreboot + etherboot
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| 10:55 | vagrantc: my goal is to make everything possible boot using our default dhcpd.conf
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| 10:55 | <Gadi> and its coreboot+etherboot is doing PXE?
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| 10:55 | <warren> which now seems impossible because there's no way to identify it
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| 10:55 | <Gadi> but reporting Etherboot VCI
| |
| 10:55 | <warren> Gadi: no
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| 10:55 | Gadi: this thincan has coreboot + etherboot and reporting "Etherboot-5.4"
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| 10:55 | <Gadi> so, feed it an etherboot image like every other etherboot
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| 10:55 | <warren> Gadi: the problem is that the "Etherboot-5.4" name is ambiguous
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| 10:55 | <vagrantc> warren: so, you want etherboot that is capable of doing PXE to do PXE, but etherboot that's not capable to do the old-school stuff ?
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| 10:56 | <warren> yes
| |
| 10:56 | * vagrantc agrees with gadi | |
| 10:56 | <vagrantc> if it's etherboot, give it an etherboot image ...
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| 10:56 | <warren> that means qemu can't test pxelinux anymore
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| 10:56 | <Gadi> why?
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| 10:56 | <vagrantc> not with a default configuration, no.
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| 10:57 | <Gadi> wait a qemu client?
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| 10:57 | <vagrantc> i think it very well may be impossible to distinguish and have a default that works in all cases.
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| 10:57 | <Gadi> I am so confused
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| 10:57 | <warren> qemu reports itself as Etherboot-5.4
| |
| 10:57 | <Gadi> do this:
| |
| 10:58 | download the bootable iso image for etherboot-PXE from rom-o-matic and boot qemu from cdrom
| |
| 10:58 | that should (maybe) report PXEClient?
| |
| 10:58 | dunno
| |
| 10:58 | only ever tested etherboot booting with qemu
| |
| 10:59 | * Gadi knows not how to test PXE-booting with qemu | |
| 10:59 | <Gadi> I dont even think it supports it
| |
| 11:00 | but, I bet you could modify the VCI of the rom-o-matic image
| |
| 11:00 | <vagrantc> warren: without changes to qemu or etherboot code, i don't think you can accomplish what you want.
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| 11:00 | <warren> hmm
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| 11:00 | <Gadi> and in that way, get a PXE-capable bootable image with VCI=PXEClient
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| 11:01 | <ogra> there are etherboot imaes with pxe emu, no ?
| |
| 11:01 | <warren> Are you saying there's no real machines that report "Etherboot-5.4" that are actually PXE capable?
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| 11:01 | <vagrantc> ogra: that's exactly the problem
| |
| 11:01 | warren: i would wager to say most machines that report Etherboot-5.4 are PXE capable.
| |
| 11:01 | <Gadi> warren: not that I know of
| |
| 11:02 | and if there were, they should report a VCI of PXEClient
| |
| 11:02 | otherwise they are dup'ing everyone
| |
| 11:02 | <warren> vagrantc: because most machines are using a real BIOS?
| |
| 11:02 | <vagrantc> Gadi: no, because they have PXE capability ... but they're still etherboot
| |
| 11:02 | warren: indeed.
| |
| 11:02 | Gadi: they support PXE, NBI, ELF, etc ...
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| 11:02 | <Gadi> big deal, they still need to tell somebody that
| |
| 11:02 | :)
| |
| 11:02 | somehow
| |
| 11:03 | <ogra> isnt the "runs with netware" sticker supposed to tell you that ? :)
| |
| 11:03 | <Gadi> so, there must be a flag to tell the server that
| |
| 11:03 | <vagrantc> Gadi: or there should be
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| 11:03 | <Gadi> otherwise, you just feed them all etherboot images
| |
| 11:03 | <warren> strange, I don't see the string Etherboot anywhere in qemu
| |
| 11:03 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i'm thinking we should get etherboot to report it's supported types in the VCI string somehow
| |
| 11:04 | <warren> vagrantc: except dhcpd doesn't do substring matches
| |
| 11:04 | <Gadi> vagrantc: that would be great for the future
| |
| 11:04 | <warren> vagrantc: it matches from the beginning of the string
| |
| 11:04 | <Gadi> not exactly backward compatible
| |
| 11:04 | <vagrantc> warren: it's better than sending *nothing*
| |
| 11:04 | <warren> true
| |
| 11:04 | ray_ has quit IRC | |
| 11:04 | <vagrantc> you'd have to have multiple lines or something ...
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| 11:04 | <Gadi> dhcpd does do substring matches
| |
| 11:05 | <warren> of VCI
| |
| 11:05 | ?
| |
| 11:05 | <Gadi> it only starts at the beginning because we set offset to 0
| |
| 11:05 | :)
| |
| 11:05 | ray_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:05 | <vagrantc> Gadi: well, it's not backwards-breaking either, if it lists them after the existing string
| |
| 11:05 | <Gadi> match if substring (option vendor-class-identifier, 0, 9) = "PXEClient";
| |
| 11:05 | the 0 in that line means "from first char"
| |
| 11:06 | the 9 means nine chars
| |
| 11:06 | you can match as you like
| |
| 11:06 | <warren> I can't do this by MAC address either
| |
| 11:06 | because the MAC prefix of both the PXE and non-PXE thincans are the same
| |
| 11:06 | <vagrantc> Gadi: we'd have to standardize on a format, though...
| |
| 11:06 | <Gadi> yeah, MAC is independent
| |
| 11:07 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i.e. Etherboot-5.4-ELF-NBI-PXE ... what if it just supports PXE ?
| |
| 11:07 | <Gadi> vagrantc: there's also a limit of chars
| |
| 11:07 | <vagrantc> Gadi: how big of a limit?
| |
| 11:07 | * Gadi forgets if it is 16 or 32 | |
| 11:07 | <ogra> i think it was 16
| |
| 11:07 | <vagrantc> 16 would suck.
| |
| 11:08 | <Gadi> well, I want to standardize for the initramfs, too
| |
| 11:08 | <vagrantc> seeing as Etherboot-5.4 is 13
| |
| 11:08 | <Gadi> I send "LTSP" as VCI from initramfs
| |
| 11:08 | <ogra> to where ?
| |
| 11:08 | <warren> Does all "Etherboot" support elf?
| |
| 11:08 | <Gadi> but, remember we talked about "LTSP-i386", etc
| |
| 11:08 | <vagrantc> Etherboot-5.4-ENP ... Etherboot-5.4-XXP ... ?
| |
| 11:08 | <Gadi> so we could assign different rootfs's based on arch?
| |
| 11:08 | <ogra> Gadi, oh, in the second dhcp call you mean
| |
| 11:09 | <Gadi> ogra: yeah
| |
| 11:09 | exodos has quit IRC | |
| 11:09 | <Gadi> put that in the back of your head for when/if we do multi-arch support
| |
| 11:09 | :)
| |
| 11:09 | <vagrantc> warren: older versions only supported NBI, newer versions support ELF, and even newer versions support PXE ... but it's possible to build etherboot images with only some or none of them.
| |
| 11:10 | <warren> do newer versions support NBI?
| |
| 11:10 | <vagrantc> warren: i believe default since 5.4.0 was to support all of them ... but i may be mistaken.
| |
| 11:10 | <warren> I might have to do least common denominator
| |
| 11:10 | <vagrantc> warren: i bet your thincan doesn't support NBI
| |
| 11:10 | <warren> I think you're right
| |
| 11:11 | oh, nope, it does NBI
| |
| 11:11 | <vagrantc> warren: basically, it can support 1-3 of any of them, depending on whoever compiled etherboot.
| |
| 11:11 | <generic> ogra
| |
| 11:11 | <vagrantc> warren: so technically, there's no least common denominator, as it's a pick-and-choose.
| |
| 11:12 | warren: all versions have the capability to support NBI, but not all builds will support it.
| |
| 11:12 | <warren> I could make "Etherboot-5.4" default to ELF
| |
| 11:12 | "Etherboot" fallthrough NBI
| |
| 11:12 | <vagrantc> that's pretty reasonable.
| |
| 11:13 | <warren> if that doesn't work for anyone then they need to edit it manually
| |
| 11:13 | <vagrantc> exactly.
| |
| 11:13 | <ogra> warren, in th eltsp5 implementations out there already they need to do that anyway ...
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| 11:13 | <vagrantc> warren: and to test pxelinux from qemu, you'll have to edit it manually.
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| 11:42 | <warren> vagrantc: in your bootprompt args you have no "initrd="?
| |
| 11:43 | checking if image is initramfs...it isn't (bad gzip magic numbers); looks like an initrd
| |
| 11:44 | Skarmeth has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:44 | <warren> and it gets stuck
| |
| 11:48 | [root@newcaprica i386]# file elf-2.6.25-1.fc9.i586.img
| |
| 11:48 | elf-2.6.25-1.fc9.i586.img: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, corrupted section header size
| |
| 11:48 | hmm
| |
| 11:50 | indradg has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:51 | <generic> hey guys do i need to install tftpd on ubunrt +ltsp 5
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| 11:51 | <ogra> it is pulled in automatically
| |
| 11:51 | <generic> though i have install ltsp-server-standalone openssh-server
| |
| 11:51 | sudo ltsp-build-client
| |
| 11:52 | still
| |
| 11:52 | tftp error
| |
| 11:52 | <ogra> ltsp-server Depends: debconf (>= 0.5) | debconf-2.0, debconf-utils, debootstrap, gettext-base, iproute, lsb-release, nbd-server, openbsd-inetd | inet-superserver, openssh-client | ssh, python (>= 2.4), squashfs-tools, tcpd, tftpd-hpa, update-inetd
| |
| 11:53 | ltsp-server-standlone depends on ltsp-server
| |
| 11:53 | Q-FUNK has quit IRC | |
| 11:53 | <ogra> generic, are you running an i386 server or amd64 ?
| |
| 11:53 | <generic> i386
| |
| 11:54 | <ogra> ls /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386 ?
| |
| 11:54 | are there files ?
| |
| 11:54 | grep tftp /etc/inetd.conf
| |
| 11:54 | does that return a line for tftp ?
| |
| 11:55 | <generic> wait
| |
| 11:55 | <vagrantc> warren: yup, no need for an initrd argument.
| |
| 11:55 | warren: at least on debian and ubuntu
| |
| 11:55 | <warren> i can't manage to boot anything made with mkelfImage
| |
| 11:55 | i'm trying mkelf-linux now
| |
| 11:56 | <generic> yes
| |
| 11:56 | they are
| |
| 11:56 | <ogra> generic, the inetd.conf has a line as well ?
| |
| 11:57 | <generic> what line
| |
| 11:57 | <vagrantc> oh, by the way ... tried dnsmasq both as DHCP server and TFTP server, and works quite nicely.
| |
| 11:58 | <ogra> generic, grep tftp /etc/inetd.conf
| |
| 11:58 | does that return a line for tftp ?
| |
| 11:58 | (one that doesnt start with a # sign)
| |
| 11:59 | <generic> no
| |
| 11:59 | <ogra> weird
| |
| 12:00 | dpkg -l tftpd-hpa
| |
| 12:00 | is it installed ? (output should contain ii somewhere)
| |
| 12:01 | <warren> doh
| |
| 12:01 | mkelfImage is generating a corrupted image
| |
| 12:01 | <ogra> your file output somewhat indicated that
| |
| 12:01 | "corrupted section header size"
| |
| 12:01 | <warren> I know
| |
| 12:02 | <Blinny> That tftp /etc/inetd.conf sounds like the funky postinstall problem again.
| |
| 12:03 | <generic> its ok
| |
| 12:03 | thin client when boot says tftp can not open connection
| |
| 12:03 | yes installed
| |
| 12:03 | <ogra> Blinny, except that i had about 100 tests on different platforms and didnt see it anywhere but for ppl that had debian in their sources.lst or other weird stuff yet
| |
| 12:03 | <generic> this is ined.conf file
| |
| 12:03 | 571 stream tcp nowait nobody /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/ldminfod
| |
| 12:03 | 9572 stream tcp nowait nobody /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/nbdswapd
| |
| 12:03 | 2000 stream tcp nowait nobody /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/nbdrootd /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
| |
| 12:03 | ~
| |
| 12:04 | <ogra> generic, ok, but you have that line in inetd.conf ?
| |
| 12:04 | no, thats wrong
| |
| 12:04 | <generic> i make tftp on boot yes too
| |
| 12:04 | in /etc/default
| |
| 12:04 | <ogra> argh
| |
| 12:04 | dont do that
| |
| 12:04 | <generic> what wrong
| |
| 12:04 | <warren> sigh, it doesn't like the image generated by mkelf-linux either
| |
| 12:04 | <ogra> sudo dpkg-reconfigure tftpd-hpa
| |
| 12:04 | make sure it gets started from inetd
| |
| 12:04 | * warren tries the i386 version | |
| 12:05 | <generic> ok i did
| |
| 12:05 | <ogra> good
| |
| 12:06 | just leave all defaults the system sets its been tested and known to work that way :)
| |
| 12:06 | <generic> oh wait
| |
| 12:06 | filename "/lts/i386/pxelinux.0";
| |
| 12:06 | in dhcp is this
| |
| 12:07 | <ogra> lts ?
| |
| 12:07 | are you sure ?
| |
| 12:07 | thats wrong
| |
| 12:07 | <generic> yes
| |
| 12:07 | this is wrong
| |
| 12:07 | right
| |
| 12:07 | <ogra> needs to be ltsp
| |
| 12:07 | <Blinny> left
| |
| 12:07 | <ogra> did you edit the file as well ?
| |
| 12:08 | <generic> yes
| |
| 12:08 | what it should be
| |
| 12:08 | <ogra> the default
| |
| 12:08 | as it was installed
| |
| 12:08 | <warren> ogra: I just tried the mkelfImage binary from edubuntu and it generates the same corrupted image
| |
| 12:08 | so it is likely something with my kernel...
| |
| 12:08 | <ogra> only edit the IP range in case you use a different static IP for the thin client interface
| |
| 12:09 | warren, to big probably
| |
| 12:09 | <warren> oh?
| |
| 12:09 | there's size limits for elf images?
| |
| 12:09 | <ogra> no idea
| |
| 12:09 | just a guess
| |
| 12:10 | i dont really know if there is a size limit, but as i said before, it merges kernel and initramfs
| |
| 12:10 | that can get quite big
| |
| 12:11 | -r--r--r-- 1 root root 6,0M 2007-12-29 01:07 nbi.img-2.6.24-16-386
| |
| 12:11 | generic, the defaults of all apps and config files are set to support booting thin clients out of the box, if you changed anything, change it back
| |
| 12:11 | <warren> it is possible my initrd is too big
| |
| 12:12 | <generic> where is default dhcp file
| |
| 12:12 | <ogra> its /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
| |
| 12:12 | <generic> oh
| |
| 12:13 | i just delete and make my own
| |
| 12:13 | <ogra> sudo apt-get install --reinstall ltsp-server might reset it
| |
| 12:13 | <generic> can u check plz
| |
| 12:13 | <ogra> (not sure that works for conffiles like dhcpd.conf though)
| |
| 12:14 | <generic> http://pastebin.com/m1260065b
| |
| 12:14 | here my dhcp file
| |
| 12:14 | <vagrantc> dnsmasq seems like it was practically designed for LTSP these days.
| |
| 12:14 | <generic> also i have set a range but clinets are getting ips line 40 , 69 ,
| |
| 12:15 | whats is that
| |
| 12:16 | <ogra> thats totally messed up
| |
| 12:16 | just try the command i gave above to restore the default file
| |
| 12:17 | <generic> not restoring
| |
| 12:17 | soneyka has quit IRC | |
| 12:17 | <generic> no use
| |
| 12:21 | fuhviofbi has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:22 | <ltsppbot> "ogra" pasted "default ubuntu dhcpd.conf" (22 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/516
| |
| 12:22 | <ogra> copy that in place, replace 192.168.0 globally with your network addess
| |
| 12:22 | restart dhcp3-server
| |
| 12:23 | if you changed any other files, change them back as well
| |
| 12:25 | <shogunx> hey ogra. what is the purpose of the i386.img squashfs image generated by ltsp-build-client?
| |
| 12:25 | <vagrantc> shogunx: it's your root filesytem.
| |
| 12:26 | <ogra> well, the readonly part of your root fs :)
| |
| 12:26 | <vagrantc> well, yeah.
| |
| 12:26 | <ogra> :)
| |
| 12:26 | <shogunx> main reason for asking is that i will need to make a few mods to the chroot. one terminal will have an atheros, and act as an access point, among other things.
| |
| 12:26 | <ogra> shogunx, best is to generate a special chroot for these if you have the space on your server
| |
| 12:27 | have a look at ltsp-build-client --extra-help
| |
| 12:27 | it has various options
| |
| 12:27 | <shogunx> its a few additional kernel modules (which are there anyway) and an init script i will have to add. thats it.
| |
| 12:27 | <ogra> if yu made changes in the chroot, run ltsp-update-image -a <chrootname> to regenerate it
| |
| 12:28 | ah, k
| |
| 12:28 | <shogunx> ahh. thats what i was looking for i think. thanks.
| |
| 12:28 | 140mb... that all loads into the client?
| |
| 12:28 | <ray_> ... i was on earlier this morning ... asking about rdesktop and local disk drive access. I actually had some luck getting the /media directory to mount ... but it's pretty bad about the delayed writes to the USB disk.
| |
| 12:28 | <ogra> if you have only an i386 chroot you can omit -a
| |
| 12:29 | <ray_> may have to look into the ltsp file system ...
| |
| 12:29 | <shogunx> omit -a. check.
| |
| 12:29 | still functional with this method with 128 megs of memory on the client, correct?
| |
| 12:30 | still a nbd, just with squashfs also. or does the entire squashfs image load into ram on the client?
| |
| 12:31 | or should i be ordering 256meg sodimms?
| |
| 12:31 | <ogra> 128M shoudl be fine
| |
| 12:31 | the squashfs sits on a network block device
| |
| 12:31 | <shogunx> excellent. many thanks.
| |
| 12:31 | <ogra> so it doesnt load into ram
| |
| 12:31 | <shogunx> i dig it.
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| 12:34 | soneyka has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:35 | <warren> ogra: how big is your initrd?
| |
| 12:35 | the gzip compressed cpio archive
| |
| 12:36 | <ray_> so ... as i understand it, there's no way right now to use the ltspfs or ltspfsd stuff in the ubuntu repositories by itself? ...
| |
| 12:36 | <ogra> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4,3M 2008-02-26 15:40 initrd.img-2.6.24-16-generic
| |
| 12:36 | <warren> thx
| |
| 12:36 | my initrd is twice the size
| |
| 12:37 | I'll try one with all the crap ripped out
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| 12:37 | jammcq has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:37 | vagrantc has quit IRC | |
| 12:37 | <ogra> yo jammcq
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| 12:38 | Blinny has quit IRC | |
| 12:39 | <ray_> Does anyone here know anything about using the ltspFS stuff? ...
| |
| 12:40 | <ogra> yes, but nothing about rdesktop
| |
| 12:41 | <ray_> is the ltspfs supposed to be used in a client server function? ... like ... the server specifically mounts the clients local devices ON the server itself with fuse? ...
| |
| 12:43 | i guess my ultimate goal is to make the usb device have faster writes to the disk, so that by the time the user is logging out ... their disk should have finished making the writes ...
| |
| 12:43 | <ogra> if you plug in a block device, an udev rule is executed that add the device with mountpoint to a specal fstab file .... then it triggers the mount through the ssh tunnel we use for X transport on the server side
| |
| 12:44 | in the users session on the server side ltspfsmounter triggers the actual network boot
| |
| 12:44 | s/boot/mount/
| |
| 12:45 | inbetween there is a token exchanged that sits on the X root wondow of the users session to make sure the user is allowed to actually do the mount
| |
| 12:46 | <ray_> what does the udev rule look like? .. can you do something similar with ivman? ...
| |
| 12:48 | it seems like with block devices ... if you lose the connection, or the connection hicups or something like that ... won't that corrupt the device? ...
| |
| 12:49 | and how does the ltspfs handle a logout situation to correctly end communications with the disk? ... (finish writing and unmount ... etc)
| |
| 12:55 | sorry for asking so many questions ... i guess i'm just looking for a simple solution to the problem of local media ... i guess the short answer is that there really isn't one : )
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| 12:58 | spectra has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:02 | <ray_> hey ogra, i finally found the page in the wiki on ltspfs and fuse ... do you think that it would make any sense to run both ltspFSd and ltspFS on the same box, to take advantage of some of this stuff?
| |
| 13:03 | <ogra> ray_, i think Gadi does such strange things :)
| |
| 13:03 | * ogra -> dinner | |
| 13:03 | <ray_> thanks ogra : )
| |
| 13:13 | Gadi ... is there anyway i could get in contact with you about some of the ltspfs stuff? stuff?
| |
| 13:24 | <Gadi> ray_: hi - sorry in and out ... that is the hackery of which I spoke this morning
| |
| 13:24 | I run ltspfs and ltspfsd on the thin client to take advantage of it for rdp et al
| |
| 13:25 | it requires some trickery (as this is not the intended use)
| |
| 13:25 | :)
| |
| 13:25 | but, it works great
| |
| 13:25 | there are also a few other friends that need tweaking (cdpinger, etc)
| |
| 13:27 | <ogra> cdpinger gets harder to tweak now that its C
| |
| 13:28 | warren, btw, "AMD64 replaces terms such as “Hammer” (now, “AMD64 technology”) and “x86-64 ISA” (now, “AMD64 ISA”)."
| |
| 13:28 | from the officia release of the amd64 arhitecture
| |
| 13:28 | http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_543_10218~69678,00.html
| |
| 13:28 | <warren> isn't that really old?
| |
| 13:29 | <ogra> no, i just had a discussion and was taucght some history
| |
| 13:29 | x86_64 was the work title for the development of the arch
| |
| 13:29 | <warren> mkelfimage doesn't seem to like our kernel/initrd combination
| |
| 13:29 | <ogra> apparently suse ported on these dev CPUs
| |
| 13:30 | <warren> We originally named our stuff amd64
| |
| 13:30 | <ogra> so they used that name and stuck with it instead of moving to the official name
| |
| 13:30 | <ray_> that would be awesome thought if you could maybe show me how to use both of them on the client for RDP based stuff ...
| |
| 13:30 | <Gadi> yeah, well, I will try to collect my hacks before hackfest, so perhaps we can review any pieces that might be folded in
| |
| 13:30 | <warren> but we renamed it to x86_64 after we supported both Intel and AMD
| |
| 13:30 | glibc's name is x86_64 right?
| |
| 13:30 | <Gadi> ray_: well, keep in mind, I am still on gutsy
| |
| 13:30 | <ogra> nope
| |
| 13:31 | <Gadi> and have no intention of moving to hardy for the rootfs any time soon
| |
| 13:31 | <ray_> that's cool ... i can move back to gutsy if need be ...
| |
| 13:31 | <ogra> apparently the BSD's Debian, Ubuntu, Gentoo, JDK, Solaris all refer to it as 'amd64', as well as gcc, kernel and lsb
| |
| 13:31 | <Gadi> and gutsy->hardy changed a few things (to say the least) in rootfs
| |
| 13:31 | <ogra> Gadi, ?
| |
| 13:31 | what changed ?
| |
| 13:31 | * Gadi has limited C kung-foo, so the more we do in C, the more it hurts me to hack :) | |
| 13:32 | <ray_> ok ... i actually just upgraded my client this morning ... i'll happily change back ...
| |
| 13:32 | <Gadi> ogra: well, the python-> C reqwrites, all of the directories...
| |
| 13:32 | :)
| |
| 13:32 | <pscheie> Gadi, what language(s) do you like to work in?
| |
| 13:32 | * ogra didnt make any changes to ltsp rootfs in hardy | |
| 13:32 | <ogra> apart from general package updates
| |
| 13:32 | <Gadi> all the paths got moved around
| |
| 13:33 | that always takes me time to unravel
| |
| 13:33 | :)
| |
| 13:33 | <ogra> thats warrens fault :P
| |
| 13:33 | <Gadi> pscheie: I'm a scripter not a programmer
| |
| 13:33 | <ogra> but thanks to vagrant all the old paths should still work
| |
| 13:33 | <Gadi> I prefer as many interperative languages I can get my hands on
| |
| 13:33 | <pscheie> Gadi, ergo?
| |
| 13:33 | <Gadi> easier for a simple-minded EE like me
| |
| 13:33 | :)
| |
| 13:34 | ergo: perl, php, python, awk, sed, ...
| |
| 13:34 | <ogra> shell ;)
| |
| 13:34 | <Gadi> shell
| |
| 13:34 | :)
| |
| 13:34 | C hurts my brain
| |
| 13:34 | <pscheie> join the club ;-)
| |
| 13:34 | <Gadi> which is how I know Im not a programmer
| |
| 13:34 | <ray_> Gadi_ is there anyway you could put together a little howto on getting ltspFS and ltspFSd working for the RDP client? ...
| |
| 13:35 | * pscheie hasn't done any C for 10+ years | |
| 13:35 | <Gadi> ray_: its so many little tweaks here and there, I would prefer to make a package
| |
| 13:35 | <ray_> my email is ray.voelker@gmail.com ... basically local disk support is the final piece of this puzzle for me ...
| |
| 13:35 | <Gadi> costs the same amount of effort
| |
| 13:35 | <ray_> if you could make it a package ... that would work great too ...
| |
| 13:36 | <Gadi> for me, if its a super-long howto, better to have a script called "install" ;)
| |
| 13:36 | <ray_> even better ... : )
| |
| 13:36 | <Gadi> but, dont put me in ur critical path
| |
| 13:36 | :)
| |
| 13:37 | I have some larger fish to fry before I can get to that
| |
| 13:37 | I can talk about it in generalities, tho if you like
| |
| 13:37 | :)
| |
| 13:37 | <ray_> yea ... if you would like ... i'll try to keep up ...
| |
| 13:37 | <Gadi> ok
| |
| 13:37 | <ray_> maybe i can put some of these hacks together on my own in the mean time ...
| |
| 13:38 | <Gadi> unfortunately, I'm the only one of this lil groupito who really cares about connecting to rdp, so...
| |
| 13:38 | <ray_> yea .. that was my stumbling block as well ...
| |
| 13:38 | <Gadi> actually, there's an easier way to skin this
| |
| 13:38 | if ur open to it
| |
| 13:38 | <ray_> i was actually just using rdesktop without the ltsp stuff ...
| |
| 13:39 | i just thought that someone here was more familiar with rdesktop and local disk support ... : )
| |
| 13:39 | <Gadi> you can set up an LTSP server, give every machine a user account, and create a session on the server (ie a ~/.xsession for each user) that runs rdesktop -f -r disk:drives=/media/$USER ....
| |
| 13:40 | this way, rdesktop runs on the *server* and not on the client
| |
| 13:40 | but the localdev stuff that is default works without any mods
| |
| 13:40 | <ray_> wait ... that kinda melted my brain a little bit .. : )
| |
| 13:40 | <Gadi> lol
| |
| 13:41 | ok, so ltsp by default handles giving you a directory on the linux server that you log into for each drive on the client
| |
| 13:41 | it creates the dir in: /media/$USER/
| |
| 13:41 | <ogra> Gadi, that could be an rc script, triggered by a ldm session entry ;)
| |
| 13:41 | <Gadi> if you redirect that dir thru rdp,
| |
| 13:42 | and run rdp as the only program in your session
| |
| 13:42 | and use ldm's Autologin feature
| |
| 13:42 | then, the users sit at an rdesktop screen at the client
| |
| 13:42 | that is presented by the server
| |
| 13:42 | they are autologged into the server as their own user
| |
| 13:42 | (say user=hostname or some such)
| |
| 13:43 | <ogra> that has also the advantage of redirecting the load :)
| |
| 13:43 | <Gadi> and the localdev is cared for
| |
| 13:43 | the only thing that sucks doing it this way is sound
| |
| 13:43 | <ray_> oh, ok ... in my situation, the RDP server is a windows box ... and i was looking to basically build a client that could make the server aware of the local disks ...
| |
| 13:43 | <Gadi> because rdesktop sound would need to be redirected thru padsp
| |
| 13:43 | which is worse that if rdesktop is local on the client
| |
| 13:44 | <ray_> but you're saying that the only way to do that is by running a linux box with rdp server running with ltsp configured ...
| |
| 13:44 | <Gadi> right you have two servers:
| |
| 13:44 | WTS and LTSP server
| |
| 13:44 | and then ur thin clients
| |
| 13:44 | <ray_> oh ... but you're saying you could and the LTSP server to the mix ...
| |
| 13:44 | oh .. ok... thats a little more clear ...
| |
| 13:45 | <Gadi> LTSP boots the thin clients, they log into it, but it just runs rdesktop fullscreen to the WTS
| |
| 13:45 | so the rdp client rus on the LTSP server
| |
| 13:45 | not on the thin client
| |
| 13:45 | it just gets displayed on the thin client
| |
| 13:45 | <ray_> oh ... i see ...
| |
| 13:45 | <Gadi> since LTSP cares for localdev thin client to LTSP server
| |
| 13:46 | all you need to do is redirect the dir created on the ltsp server for the devices
| |
| 13:46 | problem solved
| |
| 13:47 | * Gadi does all of his hackery bec our products don't work that way (www.thesymbiont.com) | |
| 13:47 | <ray_> excuse my lack of knowledge of ltsp ... but will the ltsp server then be able to facilitate a link between clients and the WTS? ...
| |
| 13:48 | <Gadi> define "facilitate a link"
| |
| 13:49 | <ray_> i guess i'm just unclear on how the ltsp server works into the equation of rdesktop client ... and WTS ... if your rdesktop client is now talking to the LTSP box ...
| |
| 13:49 | <johnny> no.. rdesktop client is on the ltsp box
| |
| 13:49 | <Gadi> right
| |
| 13:49 | <johnny> talks to the wts
| |
| 13:50 | <ray_> oh, so your thin clients are booting from code retrieved from the ltsp server ...
| |
| 13:50 | <Gadi> with LTSP all applications run on the server
| |
| 13:51 | <ray_> is this basically through an ssh tunnel? ...
| |
| 13:51 | <Gadi> the thin clients just get enough of an OS to connect to the server
| |
| 13:51 | it can be
| |
| 13:51 | :)
| |
| 13:51 | by default, with ldm, yes it is
| |
| 13:51 | but there is an option to not tunnel the video thru ssh
| |
| 13:52 | (which is MUCH faster)
| |
| 13:52 | (tho less secure)
| |
| 13:52 | (tho MUCH faster)
| |
| 13:52 | :)
| |
| 13:52 | <ray_> yea ... i'm not sure about the security ... that may be less of a concern ...
| |
| 13:52 | <ogra> well, dont do homebanking with encryption off :)
| |
| 13:53 | <Gadi> ...on an untrusted network...
| |
| 13:53 | <ogra> password handling is in any case done via ssh
| |
| 13:53 | and i.e. in the ubuntu default two NIC setup the TC network isnt publically exposed
| |
| 13:53 | <ray_> and that's just in the connection between each client PC and the LTSP server? ...
| |
| 13:53 | <Gadi> so little trust these days....
| |
| 13:54 | <ogra> right
| |
| 13:54 | <ray_> so each client would have to be individually created on the server ... before they were able to use any local disks? ...
| |
| 13:55 | <ogra> no
| |
| 13:56 | <Gadi> its magic
| |
| 13:56 | plain and simple
| |
| 13:56 | <ray_> : ) ... awesome ...
| |
| 13:57 | <Gadi> ray_: if you have a server or even ubuntu installed with qemu or some other virtual machine, just try LTSP and use it a bit
| |
| 13:57 | it is easy to set up
| |
| 13:57 | <ray_> i'll have to look into this some more ... now the packages for ubuntu in gutsy would be a good place to start with this? ... these aren't disk-less clients ... and unfortunatly, i don't have an environment where i can PXE and tftp : (
| |
| 13:57 | <Gadi> and u'll get an idea of what it does
| |
| 13:57 | why can't you PXE/tftp?
| |
| 13:57 | everyone can PXE/tftp
| |
| 13:58 | even cheney says so
| |
| 13:58 | :)
| |
| 13:58 | <ray_> i just dont have access to the dhcp servers here ... : )
| |
| 13:58 | <Gadi> so, dont use em
| |
| 13:58 | <warren> gPXE can download via HTTP apparently =)
| |
| 13:58 | <ray_> will it work without? ...
| |
| 13:58 | <Gadi> do you have access to the switch?
| |
| 13:58 | * ogra wonders hos cheney would pronounce PXE/tftp | |
| 13:58 | <ogra> *how
| |
| 13:58 | <ray_> unfortunately no ... i suppose i could work on that ...
| |
| 13:59 | <cliebow> Gadi: i hate to think..
| |
| 13:59 | <ogra> warren, scary
| |
| 13:59 | <Gadi> ray_: if you stick your ltsp server between the clients and the WTS
| |
| 13:59 | <ray_> so, much of LTSP hinges on the ability to PXE/tftp ? ...
| |
| 13:59 | <Gadi> then, you can bypass their dhcp server and use your own
| |
| 14:00 | Cheney's DHCP server --> WTS, LTSP server --> thin clients
| |
| 14:00 | <ray_> oh geez ... running dhcp server internally may be an automatic death sentence ... the university it people at my institution are pretty harsh ... : )
| |
| 14:00 | <cliebow> The right of the people to be secure in their persons...any one want to donate some dna to the new secure database?
| |
| 14:01 | <Gadi> ray_: well, if you do it right, they wouldnt even know
| |
| 14:01 | <ray_> haha .. : ) ... nice ...
| |
| 14:01 | <Gadi> but, if thats a limitation, check out thinstation
| |
| 14:01 | they make bootable cdroms and such
| |
| 14:02 | that can boot into rdesktop
| |
| 14:02 | or use XFCE desktop
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| 14:02 | <ray_> ok ... i'll look into it ... i've been meaning to try and get into the PXE stuff for a while now ..
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| 14:02 | <Gadi> heh
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| 14:02 | will be tough in ur university, tho, it seems
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| 14:02 | <ray_> yea ... that was my last resort .. i was trying to stay away from any type of window manager ...
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| 14:03 | <Gadi> ah, the ties that bind...
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| 14:03 | <ray_> thanks Gadi by the way ... you've really been amazingly helpful ...
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| 14:04 | <ray_> ok ... i'll have to get back in touch with you later ... i've gotta get to a meeting ...
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| 14:25 | <warren> ogra: somebody in #coreboot said there is also http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/boot/wraplinux/
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| 14:25 | tried this?
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| 15:25 | <pscheie> ogra, didn't you say f4 at ubuntu boot gives 'install ltsp bits' option?
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| 15:25 | <laga> pscheie: only with the alternate disk
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| 15:25 | <pscheie> ah, ok
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| 15:26 | time to bittorrent that one, then
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| 15:36 | <rjune_> Howdy folks
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| 15:36 | !G
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| 15:36 | <ltspbot> rjune_: "G" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 15:38 | <rjune_> is there any documentation on how LTSP 5 works? Just a brief overview as I apparently get to present LTSP to the local LUG
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| 15:41 | <lns> Happy Heron day!
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| 16:31 | <laga> README-DEVELOPMENT-POLICY
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| 16:31 | okay, why is that file empty? ;)
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| 16:31 | <vagrantc> because there is no established policy, but we'd like one somday. :)
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| 17:10 | <laga> ogra: i'm removing the tabs in client/initramfs/scripts/ltsp_nbd if you don't mind
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| 21:26 | <lns> Can I ask if there is anything completely different about how ltsp-server works in hardy (vs gutsy) ?
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| 21:30 | <vagrantc> hrm. i'm reconsidering my whole limiting ltsp architectures for debian thing
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| 21:32 | <lns> vagrantc, does that mean we'll see ltsp for c=64 sometime soon? ;)
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| 21:32 | <vagrantc> http://packages.debian.org/ltsp-client-core
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| 21:33 | currently: alpha amd64 arm armel hppa i386 ia64 mips mipsel powerpc s390 sparc
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| 21:34 | <lns> vagrantc, what makes you want to reconsider?
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| 21:34 | <vagrantc> too much beurocracy to drop them.
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| 21:34 | <lns> and what's difficult about maintaining them all?
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| 21:35 | <vagrantc> well, we have no way to test support for most of them.
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| 21:35 | <lns> lack of hardware?
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| 21:35 | <vagrantc> and the buildd infrastructure within debian sometimes stalls progress on ltsp because some obscure architectures don't keep up.
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| 21:36 | <lns> vagrantc, but these obscure archs are keeping up the progress of debian as a distro at that point, right?
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| 21:36 | <vagrantc> some architectures probably make no sense to have as thin clients (s390)
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| 21:36 | <lns> lol
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| 21:36 | very true
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| 21:37 | i'm sure 95% use one of i386, ppc, amd64
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| 21:37 | <vagrantc> lns: it hits ltsp harder than many, because it goes to the end of the queue for buildds
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| 21:38 | <lns> why end of queue?
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| 21:38 | <vagrantc> because it's priority: extra
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| 21:38 | <lns> ah
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| 21:38 | <vagrantc> i.e. bash, X, linux get higher priority
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| 21:39 | <lns> vagrantc, but if you had your own h/w you could test it yourself right?
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| 21:39 | <vagrantc> basically, 90% of the packages are higher priority...
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| 21:39 | <warren> vagrantc: http://freshmeat.net/projects/wraplinux/?branch_id=72907&release_id=269862 tried wraplinux?
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| 21:39 | <vagrantc> lns: yes, we could test, and even upload when absolutely necessary... but why bother?
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| 21:39 | <warren> vagrantc: very new alternative to mkelfImage written by a kernel developer
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| 21:39 | from scratch
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| 21:40 | <vagrantc> warren: just heard of it seconds ago, so haven't tried it, no :)
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| 21:40 | * lns claps | |
| 21:41 | <vagrantc> warren: isn't H. Peter Anvin one of the authors of syslinux/pxelinux ?
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| 21:41 | <warren> I think so
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| 21:42 | <vagrantc> appears to be involved in all sorts of netbooting technologies
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| 21:42 | <lns> vagrantc, bother because it'd get into debian faster and help the 'stalling of progress with ltsp' right?
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| 21:42 | <vagrantc> lns: nope.
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| 21:42 | <warren> wraplinux still doesn't work for the thincan coreboot + etherboot
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| 21:42 | but it did work in qemu/Etherboot
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| 21:43 | <lns> i'd love to hunt down some crazy s390 and ship it to you if you could use it to help ltsp move along =)
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| 21:43 | <vagrantc> lns: it won't improve the speed of the buildd's, which is really the primary issue
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| 21:43 | <warren> so that's better than mknbi, mkelf and mkelfImage
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| 21:43 | there is something different about our very new kernel...
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| 21:43 | <vagrantc> lns: s390 has never been the problem.
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| 21:43 | <lns> maybe i'm not understanding.. speed of the builds?
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| 21:43 | <vagrantc> lns: they're basically mainframe-like machines ... not really thin-clients.
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| 21:43 | <lns> vagrantc, i know =) I used to support some crazy s390 type mainframe
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| 21:44 | <vagrantc> lns: buildd's are machines that build (nearly) all packages for all architectures on debian.
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| 21:44 | <lns> or at least one that used that protocol to the termemus on the workstations
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| 21:44 | vagrantc, oooh ok
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| 21:44 | <vagrantc> lns: that's the main issue.
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| 21:45 | <lns> vagrantc, so where can we obtain one of these buildds for ourselves =p
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| 21:45 | <vagrantc> lns: it's getting official recognition for those buildds
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| 21:45 | lns: it's a beurocratic problem, not a technical one.
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| 21:46 | <lns> vagrantc, i see
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| 21:46 | <vagrantc> lns: you're willing to ask a lot of questions...
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| 21:46 | and i'm a sucker for answering them... :)
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| 21:46 | <lns> vagrantc, i enjoy talking about ltsp with people other than who i support ;) I learn more about it that way
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| 21:48 | i've been a debian zealot for forever, and thin clients are just cool. i love working with them and figuring out how i can make money with them and at the same time give back as much as i can to the community
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| 21:49 | right now exposure to linux is the only thing i can think of that i'm really DOING...IANAP by a long shot. I would love to hire some people to contribute and create tools for ltsp5 that i know my clients can use, but i'm a ways off from being able to hire a programmer
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| 21:50 | <lns> i'm a good visionary though =p and i always report/keep up on bugs as much as i can
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