IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 1 June 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:47 | <alkisg> Hi vagrantc. Could we move /usr/share/ltsp/scripts/ltsp-chroot to /usr/sbin/ltsp-chroot, and maybe put some extra switches for mounting the package cache or proc etc?
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| 00:49 | <johnny> needs to be distro agnostic tho..
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| 00:49 | would need to refactor it so it could be
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| 00:49 | <alkisg> Not if we only do it for debian/ubuntu
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| 00:49 | <johnny> with it's own plugins per distro
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| 00:50 | <alkisg> (it's already distro specific, it uses dpkg...)
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| 00:51 | <johnny> then you should probably move it in ubuntu/debian packages
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| 00:51 | that way you don't confuse people
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| 00:51 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 00:52 | And if other distros add the necessary code, it could be moved out again
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| 00:54 | (I think it is currently only in the ubuntu/debian package...)
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| 00:57 | <johnny> hah :)
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| 00:57 | <alkisg> vagrantc, and a second thing, would it be possible to have an ltsp_setup.d directory (similar to ltsp_config.d) in which scripts could be dropped, which would be called by a run_parts call in ltsp_setup?
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| 00:57 | <johnny> well, it's also in gentoo.. since i copy the entire dir
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| 00:58 | <alkisg> Along with the debian dir? Well it shows that it's for debian in any case...
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| 00:59 | <johnny> alkisg, sure
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| 01:00 | imagining that i might test those roots at some point
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| 01:00 | i guess i could exclude them..
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| 01:01 | <alkisg> Currently, the dpkg call could be replaced with a "get_default_root()" call which would go in the distro-functions script, and so ltsp-chroot would be distro agnostic,
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| 01:01 | ...but if package cache dir bind-mounting is also implemented, then I don't know how that can be done for other distros...
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| 01:02 | (or if an ltsp-chroot update parameter is implemented)
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| 01:10 | <vagrantc> alkisg: ltsp-chroot is in /usr/sbin/ltsp-chroot on debian...
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| 01:10 | <alkisg> Ah, I'll tell stgraber then. Could we add some extra stuff?
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| 01:11 | <vagrantc> guess it's in both places on debian...
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| 01:11 | alkisg: can add extra stuff.
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| 01:12 | alkisg: i put off including it for years because i wanted to add all the extra stuff, and then just finally wrote the basic implementation to have something
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| 01:12 | lessdisks-chroot actually included all sorts of crazy functionality
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| 01:12 | <alkisg> I can give it a try today and ping you later on (tomorrow for you) with the results...
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| 01:13 | <vagrantc> alkisg: though regarding proc mounting, you shouldn't mess with it if it's already mounted and such...
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| 01:14 | alkisg: and the package cache mounting should be optional...
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| 01:14 | <alkisg> Right
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| 01:15 | ...and devs-pts mounting could be optional, and maybe even DISPLAY and DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS could be optional...
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| 01:15 | <vagrantc> whoah
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| 01:15 | <alkisg> Heh :D
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| 01:15 | <vagrantc> ltsp-chroot-fat-client
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| 01:15 | <alkisg> OK ok I'l shush now :P
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| 01:16 | What about ltsp_setup.d ?
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| 01:16 | <vagrantc> in general, i like *.d
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| 01:17 | it takes a little bit of a performance hit to check for the directory and parse the contents... but it seems like we've gotten a lot of that code much faster nowadays anyways.
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| 01:18 | <alkisg> ...and I think the flexibility is well worth the small performance hit
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| 01:18 | <vagrantc> johnny: leaving ltsp-chroot in debian or ubuntu packages makes it harder to coordinate common code between ubuntu and debian and more likely that other distros that could use it will re-invent the wheel
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| 01:19 | alkisg: yeah, i think we've done good things elsewhere.
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| 01:19 | alkisg: no reason to stop here.
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| 01:20 | johnny: so even for distro-specific code, i think it still belongs upstream
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| 01:21 | i would welcome someone to refactor it to be more distro agnostic, but it's not the highest priority on my TODO list
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| 01:21 | <alkisg> OK, I'll propose something for ltsp_setup.d as well. I think it'd be better if we moved all of the configure_resolver, configure_console etc calls into that directory, but anyway I'll leave those big changes for more experienced devs :)
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| 01:30 | <johnny> hmm.. i wondering if networkmanager can be used for more of that stuff
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| 01:31 | altho.. i guess that would require more collaboration with upstream
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| 01:31 | vagrantc, i was just talking to portlanders on the phone :)
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| 01:31 | vagrantc, i hope to be there for oscon/xmpp summit
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| 01:34 | <vagrantc> johnny: when's that?
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| 01:34 | <johnny> july 21st
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| 01:35 | <vagrantc> johnny: heh. we'll be swapping coasts
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| 01:37 | <johnny> where are going ? buffalo?
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| 01:38 | <vagrantc> debconf10 is in new york city
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| 01:38 | <johnny> ah
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| 01:38 | right after hope :)
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| 01:39 | when are you going?
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| 01:39 | and for how long will you be gone?
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| 01:39 | <vagrantc> think i leave july 18th
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| 01:39 | <johnny> ah.. too bad
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| 01:40 | and the conference starts?
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| 01:41 | <vagrantc> http://debconf10.debconf.org/dates.xhtml
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| 01:41 | july 25th, but i'll be a little later than that
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| 01:42 | <johnny> so.. you're not gonna get there til when?
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| 01:42 | <vagrantc> johnny: i'll be there july 27th-august 8th
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| 01:43 | * vagrantc wonders when gadi and stgraber will be around | |
| 01:43 | <vagrantc> they said they'd be going
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| 01:43 | <johnny> the hope conference starts on the 18th
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| 01:43 | i plan on being in NYC then
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| 01:43 | * vagrantc is confused | |
| 01:44 | <johnny> i plan on being in new york city on july 18th
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| 01:44 | <vagrantc> got it
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| 01:44 | <johnny> till the 20th
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| 01:44 | <vagrantc> johnny: and then hitting oscon?
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| 01:44 | <johnny> yes
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| 01:44 | * vagrantc suspects johnny will not be taking the train | |
| 01:45 | <johnny> seems unlikely..
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| 01:45 | * vagrantc will be spending close to a week on the train over the course of a month | |
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| 02:32 | <sentmen> Hi
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| 02:33 | Hello?
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| 05:09 | <sentmen> hi
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| 08:32 | <rad4Christ> Morning guys, and thanks again for your assistance the other day with some configuration. I've tested edubuntu and I'm playing with openSUSE in a littl bit, for anyone who's done it, what's your recommendation for a school lab?
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| 08:39 | <nubae> rad4Christ, in what respect?
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| 08:39 | for me opensuse has by far the most usable and working edu apps
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| 08:39 | a great general gui maintanance system
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| 08:39 | <rad4Christ> Well, I'm looking to replace 4 labs, with 25-30 PCs in each. We're putting together the list for HW needs, and it's going ot be ltsp driven clients.
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| 08:40 | I was just interested if people's opinions on the options.
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| 08:40 | <nubae> easy ways of upgrading
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| 08:40 | <rad4Christ> I'm still downloading the openSUSE iso now.
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| 08:41 | <nubae> mad a wpnderful ltsp gui system, which although somewhat different and radical in its apprAoach... a great system
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| 08:41 | with wonerful documerntation
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| 08:41 | and a team that is highly involved in its outcome
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| 08:42 | join #opensuse-edu for more info
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| 08:42 | or I guess #kiwi-ltsp
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| 08:44 | I am womwhat biawsed being involved in opensuse development (specifically sugar), but it would be hard to beat such an easy to use system
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| 08:45 | <rad4Christ> Thank nubae, I am DEFINITELY checking it out, then.
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| 08:45 | Only 2.5 hours to download :/
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| 08:45 | <ogra> note though that not many people in here can give support for it
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| 08:46 | but nubae already pointed you to other channels
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| 08:46 | <nubae> so a search opensuse-edu
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| 08:46 | <ogra> and kiwi adds a bit of overhead so clients require more ram and boot slower
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| 08:46 | <nubae> right... this is the wrong channel... it is not really offiocially... ltsp
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| 08:47 | I would rgue that is somewhat not really a point
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| 08:48 | its like saying a pentium chip without mmx is worse than one with one
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| 08:48 | <rad4Christ> I'm in those channels now, as I test it, I'll ask any questions there.
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| 08:48 | <nubae> the overhead is mostly unoticable to the average users
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| 08:48 | <ogra> nubae, ??
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| 08:49 | <rad4Christ> The big thing for me it just trying to find the bet solution for the school.
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| 08:49 | <nubae> ogra u know what I mean
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| 08:49 | <ogra> nope
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| 08:50 | <nubae> with todays hardware... be it kiwi-ltsp or normal ltsp is not really a concern
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| 08:50 | I hope u would agree
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| 08:50 | <ogra> 2 minute boots vs 10secs are quite a difference
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| 08:50 | imho
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| 08:50 | but if you dont think so, up to you :)
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| 08:50 | <nubae> kwiwi-ltsp does NOT take 2 mins to boot
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| 08:50 | * ogra points to recent ltsp ML posts | |
| 08:50 | <nubae> who told u that?
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| 08:51 | <ogra> several people on the LTSP list
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| 08:51 | while i didnt touch ltsp for almost a year i still read the ML :)
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| 08:51 | <nubae> well, thats like those people that argue CENTOS ltsp is far superior to ubuntu ltsp
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| 08:51 | u know th types
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| 08:52 | <nubae> damned cockaraoches...
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| 08:52 | <ogra> indeed
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| 08:52 | <nubae> ;-)
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| 08:52 | <ogra> well, ARM is the future for LTAP anyway :)
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| 08:52 | *LTSP
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| 08:53 | <nubae> people are STILL arguiing that ubuntu ltsp is slower and a worse solution than centos
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| 08:53 | <ogra> huh ?
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| 08:53 | <nubae> yeo, read the fedora ltsp mailing list
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| 08:53 | <ogra> centos doesnt have LTSP any support, does it ?
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| 08:53 | *any LTSP support
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| 08:53 | <nubae> unforunately, it does
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| 08:53 | :-(
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| 08:53 | <ogra> huh ?
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| 08:53 | <nubae> the 5 year policy
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| 08:54 | <ogra> not in upstream
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| 08:54 | <nubae> no upstream, no way
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| 08:54 | <ogra> ?? whats the 5 year policy ?
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| 08:54 | <nubae> but people convnce users that i f they use centos, they ccan still benefit fromthe security updates
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| 08:55 | vrntos is like RHLTS, 5 yer support, and supposedly the security suport that comes along with it
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| 08:56 | <ogra> how can they ? there is no upstream support at all
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| 08:56 | i wonder how they make sure kernel and X have no wide open security bugs then
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| 09:02 | <nubae> damn Spanish weather is shorting out all electrical outlets
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| 09:03 | godda love that global warming
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| 09:04 | anyway though i am biased, i am saying kiwi-ltsp is not so bad...
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| 11:02 | <alkisg> stgraber: could we put ltsp-chroot in /usr/sbin/ like Debian does? I'm rewritting it to also allow /proc and package cache mounting etc (with getopts)...
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| 12:28 | <vbundi> has anyone here used Sabayon much? I am having trouble with permissions on a launcher I have created for a user's desktop
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| 12:44 | <johnny> i haven't used it in awhile.. and so many changes have happened since then
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| 12:44 | did you try setting it to 666? just to see if it works then?
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| 12:44 | even if you don't plan on keeping it thatway?
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| 12:47 | <alkisg> johnny: ltsp-chroot: http://alkisg.pastebin.com/PUNUjm6q
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| 12:47 | comments welcome...
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| 12:50 | I think dpkg and the apt cache are debian specific, the rest should be distro agnostic...
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| 12:51 | <vbundi> johnny: I just want it to be executable, permissions are correct inside the sabayon 'bubble' but not in a real session
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| 14:15 | <Mip5> Howdy folks - I hope you are all well. I'm installing ltsp on 10.04 (been running 9.04 for a year and half), and am looking for good documentation on configuration fat clients. I see entries for localapps jaunty and karmic, but not lucid. Anyone know where this documentation can be found?
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| 14:21 | <johnny> just follow the karmic one i think
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| 14:21 | oh.. wait.. there were some additions since then
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| 14:21 | too bad that person isn't here to remind me where the link to the updated howto is
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| 14:27 | <vbundi> Mip5: depending on what you are doing, it should only be simpler in Lucid for localapps
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| 14:27 | Mip5: I think if you follow the karmic instructions it should still work, but there are somet lts.conf settings in there that are default or unnecessary now iirc
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| 14:28 | <Mip5> vbundi - thanks, I'll give them a shot
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| 14:29 | johnny - thanks the install has yet to complete, but that's what I'll do.
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| 14:30 | <johnny> Mip5, the main thing is that it's not fat-client not fatclient
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| 14:30 | and there is a new parameter --fat-client-desktop
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| 14:31 | <johnny> that's if you want to run a fat client that is't the same as the host distro .. gnome for ubuntu, kde for ubuntu, etc
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| 14:31 | err kde for kubuntu*
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| 14:31 | Mip5, that's the only thing you have to watch out for.. is remove the old fat client script
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| 14:32 | <vagrantc> stgraber: have you had good luck with lxc/linux containers ?
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| 14:32 | <johnny> if you had it from an upgrade
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| 14:32 | Mip5, if it's a fresh install.. it's fine
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| 14:32 | <vagrantc> stgraber: saw a post on stgraber.org a while back in november... wondering how it's going
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| 14:39 | <alkisg> vagrantc: new ltsp-chroot: http://alkisg.pastebin.com/PUNUjm6q
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| 14:40 | <vagrantc> alkisg: does that require using -- ?
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| 14:41 | <alkisg> vagrantc: nope
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| 14:41 | The + at the start of the getopt options takes care of that
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| 14:41 | <vagrantc> alkisg: how does it know if an argument is passed to the chrooted command vs. ltsp-chroot itself?
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| 14:42 | <alkisg> vagrantc: The first non-parameter marks the end of the parameters
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| 14:42 | E.g. ltsp-chroot --mount-package-cache ls -lha "/some/path with spaces"
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| 14:42 | ==> `ls` is the first non-parameter
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| 14:43 | <alkisg> getopt does this automatically if + is specified as an option...
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| 14:43 | <vagrantc> nice :)
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| 14:43 | <alkisg> (or if POSIXLY_CORRECT is specified)
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| 14:43 | <denisesball> hey alkisg, trying your gpxe idea from friday to boot a remote machine to the non-dhcp side of the termserver by entering the pxeboot info manually. i get the pxebvoot going fine, and it starts loading, but its hanging on
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| 14:44 | <alkisg> vagrantc: It seems to work fine for me, even though I had to use an eval at the chroot line
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| 14:44 | denisesball: you need a full ip kernel parameter to make sure that the client gets a static ip.
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| 14:45 | * alkisg needs to write a wiki page about booting without dhcp with gpxe... | |
| 14:45 | <denisesball> where do i do that with gpxe? i boot the cd, hit ctrl+b and enter everything menually, ctrl-x to save and then type autoboot
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| 14:45 | <alkisg> No no you make a custom image
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| 14:45 | OK, try the ctrl+b thing first:
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| 14:45 | Do you have some local dhcp server?
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| 14:46 | <denisesball> yep
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| 14:46 | <alkisg> OK, try those:
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| 14:46 | <denisesball> i tried entering that in the config
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| 14:46 | <alkisg> dhcp net0
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| 14:46 | set next-server <ip-of-remote-server>
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| 14:46 | <denisesball> k
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| 14:47 | <alkisg> kernel /ltsp/i386/vmlinuz ip=<full ip line with gateway, dns server, hostname etc> initrd=initrd.img ro
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| 14:47 | boot vmlinuz
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| 14:47 | <denisesball> its not /ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0?
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| 14:47 | <alkisg> For the ip line, see this: http://codtech.com/wiki/index.php/Ipconfig#interface_spec_long_form
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| 14:47 | No you can't use pxelinux.0
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| 14:48 | You need a static ip on your local subnet
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| 14:48 | <denisesball> oh, maybe thats what my prob was then
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| 14:48 | <alkisg> You might be able to use pxelinux.0 if you also put `ipappend 3`, but maybe the different subnet will cause problems
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| 14:48 | <denisesball> <server-ip>
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| 14:48 | <alkisg> So better load the kernel directly
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| 14:48 | <denisesball> should that be the termserver ip?
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| 14:48 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 14:50 | <denisesball> after the kernel line, looks like its booting without having to type boot vmlinuz
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| 14:50 | <alkisg> Hmmm I'm not sure but I think it just loads the kernel, it doesn't actually boot it
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| 14:50 | <denisesball> oh ok, i will wait
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| 14:50 | * alkisg will be back in an hour or so... ciao | |
| 14:50 | <denisesball> just doing the ......
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| 14:50 | ok thanks
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| 15:30 | <alkisg> vagrantc: does it look ok? Should I commit it?
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| 16:04 | <denisesball> alkisg: i get a kernel panic trying your boot options
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| 16:05 | <alkisg> denisesball: what exactly did you try?
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| 16:07 | <denisesball> exactly what you mentioned. after the vmlinux kernel loaded, did boot vmlinuz
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| 16:07 | <alkisg> I think you also need to specify the initrd
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| 18:55 | <Lns> Hey all
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| 18:55 | Anyone using a 2-NIC LTSP setup inside a VM? I'm having issues reaching eth1 for the VM outside the VM itself..
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| 19:09 | <LedHed> is there an option to enable SSH to a ThinClient? I would like to be able to get a remote shell on a client and reboot it.
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| 19:10 | <Lns> LedHed, just install openssh-server in the chroot
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| 19:10 | <LedHed> oh. duhh.
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| 19:11 | <Lns> ;)
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| 19:11 | <LedHed> I should have thought of that
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| 19:11 | <Lns> easy to overlook sometimes
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| 19:12 | <LedHed> I'm also having issues with firefox. It seems that I cant have it running on more than one terminal at a time.
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| 19:12 | do I have to install Firefox as a localapp?
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| 19:14 | <Lns> LedHed, why can you only run it on one terminal at a time?
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| 19:14 | is it slow?
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| 19:18 | <LedHed> Lns, when I launch Firefox it says that its already running.
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| 19:18 | <Lns> LedHed, are you logging onto more than 1 terminal with the same user account?
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| 19:18 | <LedHed> yes
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| 19:18 | <Lns> don't ;)
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| 19:18 | <LedHed> ouch
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| 19:18 | <Lns> firefox doesn't like that (as do many other apps)
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| 19:18 | <LedHed> that throws a monkey wrench into my plans
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| 19:19 | <Lns> why?
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| 19:19 | <LedHed> I have 1 profile for many users.
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| 19:19 | I have 12 Clients with all the same desktop and apps on the desktop
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| 19:19 | <Lns> LedHed, ever hear of sabayon?
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| 19:19 | what dist. are you using btw?
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| 19:19 | <LedHed> Ubuntu
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| 19:20 | I saw something about sabayon, used for profile management correct?
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| 19:20 | <Lns> check out sabayon - sbalneav did a lot of work to get that software going, it's fabulous for what you want to do
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| 19:20 | yea
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| 19:20 | it's one of his babies. it's great software
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| 19:20 | <LedHed> works well with Ubuntu/LTSP?
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| 19:20 | <Lns> it was designed for it ;)
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| 19:20 | <LedHed> great.
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| 19:20 | I'll look into it.
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| 19:21 | for now, I'll have to remove my Firefox shortcut.
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| 19:48 | <LedHed> Lns, if I rebuild the client image, will it effect running clients?
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| 19:49 | <Lns> you'd probably want to reboot them asap..
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| 19:49 | might not crash them outright, but...
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| 19:49 | <LedHed> thats gonna be a pain.
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| 19:49 | I have 12 Clients scattered across 1 sq mile
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| 19:50 | Lns, you ever built a Fat Client?
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| 19:51 | <Lns> sure
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| 19:51 | <LedHed> my client hardware isnt all that bad, Atom 1.66 w/ 1GB RAM
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| 19:51 | <Lns> i got one of those
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| 19:51 | <LedHed> nice little boxes.
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| 19:52 | so with a Fat Client, the client pulls the filesystem from the server and runs it in a RAM Disk?
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| 19:55 | Lns, will an Update Image require a reboot?
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| 19:56 | <Lns> LedHed, yes, and yes
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| 19:56 | LedHed, it pulls from the server what it needs atm
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| 19:56 | not the whole thing
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| 19:56 | <LedHed> ugh. I'm gonna be running a marathon in a few minutes. :)
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| 19:57 | Lns, A fat client pulls what it needs or a thin client does?
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| 19:57 | <Lns> both really
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| 19:57 | <LedHed> oh.
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| 19:57 | <Lns> fat client just runs the apps locally
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| 19:57 | neither downloads the entire chroot
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| 19:57 | that would be slooooow booting
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| 19:58 | <LedHed> MiniMtyh does that.
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| 19:58 | its about a 100m image
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| 19:58 | boot times are ok
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| 19:59 | <Lns> minimyth...hmmmmmmmm
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| 19:59 | haven't heard of that yet!
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| 19:59 | anyway i gotta jet... maybe someone else here can help ya
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| 19:59 | good luck!!
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| 19:59 | <LedHed> its a MtyhTV distribution
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| 19:59 | thanks for the help Lns
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| 19:59 | its appreciated
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| 19:59 | <Lns> no prob, hang out here, the normies usually hang out
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| 19:59 | <LedHed> cool
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| 20:00 | <Lns> (obligitory family guy quote...normies) heh
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| 20:15 | <johnny> sure.. 100mb can be cached in ram with the appropriately sized distro, many cds do that
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| 20:16 | like systemrescuecd
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| 20:21 | <LedHed> thats not something LTSP can is though correct?
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| 20:42 | the gtk-window-deco process is eating up my CPU. from what I read its related to compiz. I have visual effects set to 'None', is there anything else I can do to disable gtk-window-deco?
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| 20:58 | <LedHed> is it possible to use a different windows manager than Gnome?
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| 20:59 | <vagrantc> of course
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| 21:00 | <LedHed> cool.
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| 21:00 | I only need a very basic desktop
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| 21:00 | fluxbox or icewind would be fine,
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| 21:00 | or Gnome without Compiz would even be ok.
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| 21:01 | * vagrantc recommends lxde | |
| 21:01 | <LedHed> never heard of it.
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| 21:01 | <vagrantc> it's pretty full-featured and really lightweight
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| 21:01 | <LedHed> easy to lock down?
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| 21:01 | <vagrantc> not sure
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| 21:25 | <nexusbr> hello, anyone there?
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| 21:26 | is there a way to improve video streaming performance on clients?
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| 21:29 | i've been doing some searching on web, and realized that to improve it i need to run web browser and flash locally
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| 21:30 | thats ok, but, i have not found yet a single "how to" on running apps locally
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| 21:31 | the official docs in pdf, have no description on "Local Applications".. only describes some variables, which i'm still confused
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| 21:33 | guess everyone is sleeping.. =(
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| 21:44 | <johnny> hmm?
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| 21:44 | you are using LDM_DIRECTX=Y in lts.conf ?
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| 21:44 | nexusbr, *
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| 21:45 | what specs are your client machines?
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| 21:48 | <nexusbr> no,
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| 21:49 | clients are (is, in this case), athlon sempron 2400+ with 256mb ram
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| 21:49 | <johnny> it's recommendd to use that for speed, but it is less secure
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| 21:49 | you won't be able to run flash and firefox locally with that much ram
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| 21:49 | <nexusbr> i'll try it
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| 21:49 | <johnny> it will run out too quickly
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| 21:49 | you should probably make sure you have at leaast 512
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| 21:50 | <nexusbr> i'm gonna try LM_DIRECTX=Y
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| 21:51 | <johnny> LDM_DIRECTX=Y
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| 21:51 | <nexusbr> ok
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| 21:52 | do i have to "update image"?
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| 21:54 | <johnny> not if you are editing /var/lib/tftboot/i386/lts.conf
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| 21:55 | <nexusbr> i'm editing /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
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| 21:56 | wow, video performance is acceptable now
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| 21:57 | <johnny> nexusbr, it's not on by default.. because it is less secure, in that anybody who is sniffing your network can see all the data passing through
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| 21:58 | <nexusbr> well.. i guess this is not a problem
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| 21:59 | its for a internet café
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| 22:00 | and i'm planning to use it with a win2008 rdp serving APPs, so user will be able to use micro$soft office, and live messenger..
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| 22:00 | <johnny> live messenger? why? do they actually need it?
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| 22:00 | pidgin is not good enough for it?
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| 22:01 | <nexusbr> lol, unfortunately they need it
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| 22:02 | full-screen youtube is no goal
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| 22:05 | <nexusbr> perhaps its just a server gap
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| 22:08 | 2 tabs also gets the slow down
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| 22:10 | <johnny> also
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| 22:10 | !compiz
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| 22:10 | <ltspbot> johnny: "compiz" :: if compiz is giving you problems, one way to disable it for all users is: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
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| 22:10 | <johnny> depending on your distro
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| 22:10 | err desktop environment
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| 22:34 | <nexusbr> thanks for the help johnny
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| 22:35 | i'm logging off now
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| 22:35 | thanks again
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| 23:20 | <alkisg> Good morning
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| 23:20 | vagrantc: any thoughts about ltsp-chroot?
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