IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 21 September 2011 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:01 | <smt> hi folks, im just trying ltsp and for that i wanted to use virtualbox guests, i set up the server and try to boot the other guest from it, but i only get "FATAL: Could not read from the boot medium! System halted.". when booting the target vm from a live cd it is possible to obtain an ip from the dhcp server in the other vm, any ideas whats wrong?
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| 02:02 | they are connected via virtualbox´s internal connection
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| 02:20 | ok, should anybody else ask such a question, tell him/her to try emulating a pcnet card instead of the intel ones
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| 07:54 | <Hyperbyte> I've missed you guys!
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| 07:54 | * Hyperbyte hugs everybody | |
| 07:55 | <Hyperbyte> I was so alone. :(
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| 08:09 | <Hyperbyte> Alkis! Hi!
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| 08:10 | <alkisg> Hey Hyperbyte, did you finish moving?
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| 08:10 | <muppis> Heh. Sorry. I first read 'Alkkis', which is finnish slang for alcoholic.
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| 08:11 | <alkisg> Heh, I've heard that in the past, but I thought that was in German
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| 08:12 | <muppis> It can be, as in german it is Alkoholiker.
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| 08:12 | <Hyperbyte> Alkis, finish moving?
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| 08:13 | I was cleaning my office yesterday, not moving. :P
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| 08:13 | I'll do that in december.
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| 08:21 | <garymc> hi guys
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| 08:24 | <Hyperbyte> Good morning MC Gary!
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| 08:24 | Lobs has joined IRC (Lobs!~lobo@unaffiliated/lobs) | |
| 08:24 | <Lobs> what is a good windows based client to use for ltsp?
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| 08:26 | <garymc> Girls all complaining that FAT clients are SLOWWWwWwwWwWw
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| 08:26 | possibly chrome slowing it all down?
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| 08:26 | <Hyperbyte> garymc, find out what they mean with "it is slow"
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| 08:26 | What exactly is slow.
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| 08:26 | And then out what the bottleneck is. CPU or RAM.
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| 08:27 | Lobs, Windows based client to use for LTSP?
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| 08:27 | What do you mean by that?
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| 08:28 | <Lobs> yes, to connect to the ltsp server using an application within windows.
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| 08:28 | <garymc> refreshing pages and loading pages on the internet
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| 08:28 | thats all they use
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| 08:28 | the web on it
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| 08:28 | Lobs : Dont think you can do that
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| 08:28 | <Hyperbyte> Lobs, why would you want to do that?
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| 08:28 | garymc, yes, you can do that.
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| 08:28 | <garymc> LTSP isnt meant to be used that way
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| 08:29 | can you?
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| 08:29 | using Telnet or something?
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| 08:29 | <Lobs> Hyperbyte: to use the applications on the server from a machine that is used for other things aswell (that are windows based)
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| 08:29 | <Hyperbyte> Lobs, easiest would be the other way around of course. Use your thin clients and run an rdesktop session inside
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| 08:29 | This is how I do it as well, just have one LTSP server and one RDP server for the Windows applications they need.
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| 08:30 | But otherwise, you could set up FreeNX or dare I say it, VNC, to get remote virtual desktops over network.
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| 08:30 | It's not LTSP related by the way, can be done with any Linux machine.
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| 08:30 | <Lobs> applications on windows is needed for is video editing,
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| 08:30 | a bit hard on the network to do via a client
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| 08:30 | <Hyperbyte> Agreed.
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| 08:31 | I have one person here who needs to do DTP work in Adobe Indesign. He's the only person with a Windows PC under his desk, but he also has a thin client. He has a KVM switch to switch between the two.
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| 08:33 | But like I said, you can set up your Linux machine as a VNC server, or FreeNX server, and connect to it from Windows that way.
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| 08:33 | <Lobs> hmmm, i was hoping it could be done from windows, check email etc with ltsp and do "real" work within windows itself. (also means the editing machine does not need internet access)
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| 08:33 | <Hyperbyte> You could even set up a virtual PC on Windows to do network boot, if you want a real client emulation.
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| 08:33 | <Lobs> vnc does not allow you to login as a user tho does it?
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| 08:33 | <Hyperbyte> But FreeNX or VNC is a much better solution I tihnk.
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| 08:33 | It can.
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| 08:33 | * Lobs not familure with FreeNX, will look it up. | |
| 08:35 | <Hyperbyte> http://secondary.recreatie-zorg.nl:8080/~jan/vnc.jpg
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| 08:35 | I've been told FreeNX performs much better though.
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| 08:35 | Reason I'm using VNC is because I need a simple protocol and simple client, so I can also VNC to work from my Android smartphone.
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| 08:36 | <alkisg> Freenx indeed performs about 10 times faster than vnc
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| 08:36 | Lobs, install neatx-server on your ltsp server, and the nomachine nx client on your windows pc, and you're done
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| 08:36 | garymc: what are your fat client specs? CPU and RAM?
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| 08:36 | <Hyperbyte> :)
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| 08:36 | alkisg, 2.66ghz and 2 gb ram
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| 08:36 | Heh
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| 08:36 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: sorry I though you were moving!
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| 08:37 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg: I am! Just not yet. =)
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| 08:37 | I'll be working in the new office in the first two weeks of december, running cables and such
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| 08:37 | Third week of december I'll be moving as much of the IT infrastructure as I can, without breaking the local office here
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| 08:38 | <alkisg> garymc: fat clients should be exactly as fast as local linux installations. To verify that, you can install linux in an external usb disk (or internal one, if you have) and boot a client with that, it should have the same speed as a fat client.
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| 08:38 | <Hyperbyte> And the fourth week of december all servers and clients go over.
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| 08:38 | <alkisg> Sounds like your x-mas holidays will be full :)
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| 08:38 | <Hyperbyte> Yeah.
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| 08:38 | Hopefully I'll have a break from the radio gig then, but I think the program will just continue.
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| 08:40 | <alkisg> garymc: ah, also if you're using the default ubuntu setup, it has nbd disk compression off, and that makes fat client disk access 3 times slower, you might want to reenable it
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| 08:41 | * alkisg thinks he needs to write that on the wiki page | |
| 08:41 | <garymc> alkisg : how do I check that?
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| 08:41 | <alkisg> stgraber: could we revert the default to "use compression" again? I think the problems you were seeing were nbd-proxy related, not compression related, right?
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| 08:41 | <garymc> 2ghz 2gb ram are my FAT clients specs
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| 08:42 | <alkisg> Dual core?
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| 08:42 | To check the compression setting: cat /etc/ltsp/ltsp-update-image.conf
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| 08:44 | <garymc> NO_COMP="-noF -noD -noI -no-exports"
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| 08:44 | <alkisg> Put a hash in front of it: #NO_COMP="-noF -noD -noI -no-exports"
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| 08:44 | Then run: ls -l /opt/ltsp/images
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| 08:44 | sudo ltsp-update-image
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| 08:44 | ls -l /opt/ltsp/images
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| 08:45 | And compare how smaller the disk got
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| 08:45 | It should be about 2.5 times smaller
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| 08:45 | so, 2.5 times faster
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| 08:47 | <garymc> so do this and reboot clients should be better
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| 08:47 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 08:47 | And paste here the output of `ls`
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| 08:47 | <garymc> 17% done update image
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| 08:47 | :)
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| 08:47 | <alkisg> So that we can compare
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| 08:47 | ls -l /opt/ltsp/images, before and after the compression
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| 08:49 | <garymc> total 2160688
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| 08:49 | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2212540416 2011-09-14 21:13 amd64.img
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| 08:50 | it hasnt changed?
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| 08:50 | <alkisg> Did the compression finish?
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| 08:50 | <garymc> yes
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| 08:51 | <alkisg> cat /etc/ltsp/ltsp-update-image.conf
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| 08:51 | <garymc> i ran th els -l command and its the same numbers
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| 08:51 | the hash isnt there :S duh
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| 08:53 | i never sudo the file to chsnge it :S
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| 08:57 | * Hyperbyte smacks garymc! | |
| 08:57 | <garymc> total 842752
| |
| 08:57 | hmm cool
| |
| 08:58 | <alkisg> 2212540416÷842752000=2.6 times smaller, so disk access=2.6 times faster ;)
| |
| 08:58 | And if your network is 100mbps, that's *a lot* faster
| |
| 09:00 | !learn nbd-compression as In Ubuntu >= 10.04, to make your clients go faster, you can reenable NBD compression: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients#Reenabling_NBD_compression
| |
| 09:00 | <ltsp> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
| |
| 09:00 | <garymc> cool rebooted first girls comp
| |
| 09:00 | working better already
| |
| 09:01 | only thing is, every time they load chrome, it keeps asking for them to put password in keyring all the time
| |
| 09:01 | how do i stop that happening?
| |
| 09:01 | <alkisg> You need to create keyring with no password
| |
| 09:02 | <garymc> how?
| |
| 09:02 | <alkisg> It's a generic gnome question, ask in #gnome or in #ubuntu
| |
| 09:02 | Another option would be to use the same password as the one you use to login, and LDM should then use the same password to unlock the keyring. But I don't think LDM supports that currently.
| |
| 09:03 | <garymc> yeah it does
| |
| 09:03 | <alkisg> (while on normal Ubuntu installations, GDM supports that and unlocks the keyring)
| |
| 09:03 | LDM is the LTSP display manager, I don't think it support unlocking keyrings.
| |
| 09:03 | GDM is the gnome display manager, another one
| |
| 09:04 | One hint: the gnome keyrings are stored in ~/.gnome2/keyrings/ ;)
| |
| 09:04 | <garymc> hmm confusing
| |
| 09:04 | <alkisg> Find out the rest at #gnome or #ubuntu
| |
| 09:04 | Or, use google, it helps a lot ;)
| |
| 09:04 | <garymc> i will cheers
| |
| 09:04 | <alkisg> bb
| |
| 09:08 | garymc: are your clients 100mbps? or do you have a full gigabit network?
| |
| 09:09 | <garymc> its a gigabit network, but cos they link through the sip phones, the sip phones have 100mbps
| |
| 09:09 | so that slows em down
| |
| 09:09 | <alkisg> That slows them down 10 times, it's the main cause of delays
| |
| 09:10 | You need to fix that if you want fast clients
| |
| 09:10 | At least to check that you don't have flow control problems
| |
| 09:10 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FlowControl
| |
| 09:10 | Because otherwise you server slows down 10 times too
| |
| 09:10 | bb
| |
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| 09:43 | <alkisg_android> hi markit... any problems with ltsp on kde?
| |
| 09:45 | <Lobs> NotTooDumb3_: if it is like other fb vo's it accepts the device after the vo name, i.e `-vo omapfb:/dev/fb666`
| |
| 09:45 | <markit> hi alkisg_android :) What do you mean? Today my "collaborative" teacher at primary school has used the lab for the first time. I have to talk with her yet, but she sent me an email from school server telling that everything (except one keyboard layout) works wonderfully and children are happy and had no problems using the system :))
| |
| 09:46 | brb
| |
| 09:48 | <alkisg_android> some time ago i have heard of sound problems localdevs not showing up etc
| |
| 09:49 | but if everything works now, cool!
| |
| 09:53 | <markit> alkisg_android: localdevs? if you insert a usb pen in a client, it does NOT notify you, correct, is a kde / ltsp problem
| |
| 09:53 | you find the device mounted in /dev/media/youraccount/whatever though
| |
| 09:54 | just the nitification does not work. Sadly ltsp people use gnome, and kde dev don't use ltsp...
| |
| 09:54 | <alkisg_android> ah, so it's still a problem.. anything else?
| |
| 09:54 | <markit> alkisg_android: thin client: is it normal (i.e. happens to gnome too) that when TEACHER plugs usb pen on the server, every client see the notification?
| |
| 09:55 | <alkisg_android> we may have to switch to kde in 12.04...;)
| |
| 09:55 | <markit> WOW!!!!
| |
| 09:55 | ehm, ah, really?
| |
| 09:56 | * markit so happy | |
| 09:56 | <markit> well, hope at those time KDE will not switch to unity and whyland, lol
| |
| 09:56 | kunity, I mean ;P
| |
| 09:56 | <alkisg_android> haha
| |
| 09:56 | <markit> well, I see you are connected with android phone, maybe not easy to type, you will tell me more tonight, I'm so curious :)
| |
| 09:57 | <alkisg_android> it happened on gnome too not sure if if was fixed
| |
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| 09:59 | * alkisg_android got the little kid from school and waits for the other 2... IRC is good for killing time :P | |
| 09:59 | <alkisg_android> cu later
| |
| 09:59 | <markit> and for localdev (usb pens), is it normal (gnome too?) that you don't have a gui way to "unmount"? I remember it was, and you just had to wait 4 seconds
| |
| 09:59 | ok, see you :)
| |
| 09:59 | <alkisg_android> 2seconds
| |
| 10:00 | ltspfsd doesnt support unmounting
| |
| 10:01 | but it flushes every 2 secs
| |
| 10:01 | <markit> hope you are not already driving car back to home while typing... ;P
| |
| 10:01 | ok, important is also look at the usb led, has not to blink, lol
| |
| 10:01 | (copy, paste, wait 2 sec, unplug, bang!)
| |
| 10:01 | <alkisg_android> haha no have to wait 10moreminutes
| |
| 10:02 | hmmm typing on android isn't too bad
| |
| 10:04 | there's the usbip project maybe is has better results
| |
| 10:05 | <markit> alkisg_android: android is going to become really closed product, unfortunatly
| |
| 10:05 | http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/sep/19/android-free-software-stallman
| |
| 10:05 | <alkisg_android> how come?
| |
| 10:05 | reading...
| |
| 10:06 | <markit> is not full (or even "very") free at the moment, and google seems not willing to open the code anymore with 3.2, as far as I've heard/udnerstood
| |
| 10:07 | btw, I'm very sad when project start with GPL and then think to "evolve" using MIT or BSD license "so proprietary people can use too", because they hurt our community and help our enemies
| |
| 10:07 | (general consideration besides Android stuff)
| |
| 10:12 | <alkisg_android> it didn't make me worry... if android 3 is closed source, then i'll worry
| |
| 10:13 | allowing prop. stuff is ok for now compaanies have to make money
| |
| 10:13 | bb, later
| |
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| 10:23 | <markit> companies have to make money from the Free stuff, not prop, or they have to build the entire prop stack, not use our free one
| |
| 10:23 | otherwise is unfair... we work and they make money giving nothing back
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| 13:25 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, it's interesting how much difference it makes from one VNC client to another.
| |
| 13:25 | I just tried Vinagre for VNC... it's horrible, I can see why you say it's 10 times slower than anything else.
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| 13:26 | Switched to tightvnc viewer and now it feels more like typing on localhost, when I'm logged into my computer at home.
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| 13:26 | I never thought it'd make such difference from one program to another.
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| 13:31 | <alkisg> I tried all of them, tightvnc, ultravnc, realvnc, vinagre, you name it
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| 13:31 | Do try nx before comparing :D
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| 13:32 | Also, I think it works best if you not only change the client part, but the server too
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| 13:32 | So if you're using vino-server for the server, it won't matter much if you're using tightvnc for the client
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| 13:42 | <alkisg> In my experience so far, it's: X >> NX > RDP >> VNC
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| 13:43 | (and to be fair, GDI > X :D)
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| 13:53 | <Hyperbyte> =)
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| 14:03 | <m4xx> anyone know if this would power one of the 1720 dws thin clients? http://www.short-circuit.com/product/picoUPS-120.html
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| 14:10 | <Hyperbyte> m4xx, do you have the original adapter?
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| 14:10 | <m4xx> yes
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| 14:10 | i want to use one of these things as a carputer
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| 14:10 | <Hyperbyte> On there it says output voltage/ampere/watt
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| 14:11 | <m4xx> 12v 4a 10w i believe
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| 14:11 | <Hyperbyte> If those match the output voltages of whatever else you're putting in it's place, it should work, shouldn't it?
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| 14:11 | 12 volt, 4 amperes, I can confirm that.
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| 14:12 | <m4xx> i don't see wats
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| 14:12 | watts
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| 14:21 | <Hyperbyte> Shouldn't be there, ignore my watts.
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| 14:21 | If ampere and volts matches, that's enoughs.
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| 14:21 | -s
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| 14:22 | watts = amps * volts
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| 14:23 | If you wanna be sure there's nothing you're overlooking, why not ask DLWS? :)
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| 14:23 | <m4xx> i was hoping to catch one one of em on here
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| 15:02 | <Hyperbyte> m4xx, I'd just mail support@disklessworkstations.com
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| 18:11 | <alkisg> stgraber: nbd-client hangs while trying to connect to my named export in kubuntu oneiric amd64, any known problems?
| |
| 18:14 | <stgraber> alkisg: not sure, just started testing today's build now
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| 18:14 | <alkisg> Ah maybe a problem with tcp wrappers / hosts.deny, looking into it...
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| 18:15 | (where did /var/log/daemon.log go?! :))
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| 18:18 | <stgraber> ltsp live boots at least, will see if it still works post-install
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| 18:18 | highvoltage: oh, and I got a nice ldm greeter in chinese! :)
| |
| 18:20 | <alkisg> Oops, sorry, my bad, wrong server IP (didn't use ipappend 3). Now it fails with an error message about the image being some ...petabytes
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| 18:26 | <highvoltage> stgraber: nice. didn't that work before?
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| 18:30 | <stgraber> highvoltage: we were missing the fonts
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| 18:32 | <highvoltage> ah right
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| 18:45 | <alkisg> ...almost reached ldm... ;)
| |
| 18:50 | <bakytn> where to find changes which are coming with Oneiric?
| |
| 18:51 | (hi!)
| |
| 19:08 | <stgraber> alkisg: installed LTSP with Edubuntu, I get ldm working too (so nbd worked)
| |
| 19:08 | alkisg: did you find what failed for you?
| |
| 19:10 | <alkisg> stgraber: the nbd problem was (1) ipappend 3, and (2) if I put -N /opt/ltsp/amd64 before the server name, it had the problem, while if I put it after it didn't (!)
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| 19:10 | So not really an ltsp problem there, ltsp_nbd is fine,
| |
| 19:10 | and now I'm getting a blank screen instead of ldm, digging into it...
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| 19:30 | <tastle73> hey guys
| |
| 19:30 | I'm having a weird problem with lts.conf
| |
| 19:30 | it's in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
| |
| 19:30 | its not being "picked up" by the thin client
| |
| 19:30 | running ubuntu 10.04.3
| |
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| 19:37 | <alkisg> Can you pastebin your dhcpd.conf ?
| |
| 19:38 | <tastle73> sure
| |
| 19:39 | http://pastebin.com/4RRxNBuq
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| 19:40 | <alkisg> filename "/lts/vmlinuz.ltsp";
| |
| 19:40 | So your clients are searching in /lts/lts.conf
| |
| 19:40 | Make a symlink if you want
| |
| 19:40 | Or remove the "else" part of your dhcpd.conf
| |
| 19:41 | Or put "Linux ipconfig" in the first part too
| |
| 19:41 | (instead of just "PXEClient")
| |
| 19:41 | *and udhcp too
| |
| 19:42 | <tastle73> is there an example dhcp v.3 file somewhere?
| |
| 19:43 | <alkisg> dpkg -L ltsp-server | grep dhcp
| |
| 19:48 | <tastle73> thank you
| |
| 19:49 | I am having another elusive problem with localapps
| |
| 19:49 | I can't run them as anybody other than the root user
| |
| 19:54 | <alkisg> Distro/version?
| |
| 19:55 | <tastle73> ubuntu 10.04.3
| |
| 19:55 | the auth method is nis
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| 19:55 | if that matters
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| 19:55 | from a rhel 5 box
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| 19:56 | <alkisg> In your server, does `getent passwd user` return the user that is logged in on the client?
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| 19:59 | <tastle73> checking
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| 19:59 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: were localapps working with NIS?
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| 20:01 | <tastle73> yes
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| 20:01 | it does
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| 20:03 | <alkisg> tastle73: and yet, `ltsp-localapps xterm` does not work?
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| 20:03 | <tastle73> no
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| 20:03 | <alkisg> OK, do you have a local shell on your client?
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| 20:03 | (e.g. ssh or root login)
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| 20:04 | <tastle73> yes
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| 20:04 | <alkisg> does getent passwd user show something there?
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| 20:04 | (with the user logged on)
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| 20:04 | (and localapps enabled)
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| 20:05 | <tastle73> yes
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| 20:05 | it doezs
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| 20:06 | <alkisg> What's the output of `id user` ?
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| 20:06 | (still in the local terminal, right?)
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| 20:07 | <tastle73> uid=1000(ltsp) gid=100(users) groups=1000(ltsp)
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| 20:07 | yes
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| 20:08 | that seems wrong
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| 20:08 | <alkisg> gid=100 ? That's a system group
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| 20:09 | <tastle73> ltsp is the "sudo" user I added when I built up the system
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| 20:09 | <alkisg> Some background: for localapps, ltsp copies a bit of your server /etc/passwd and /etc/group to the thin client
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| 20:09 | So something probably goes wrong, and doesn't get the correct info from your ltsp server
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| 20:11 | <tastle73> maybe I should rebuild the chroot . Maybe I didn't have nis setup when I did it.
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| 20:13 | <alkisg> It shouldn't matter
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| 20:13 | You didn't setup NIS in the chroot, did you?
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| 20:14 | (you shouldn't have)
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| 20:15 | <tastle73> no
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| 20:16 | <alkisg> What's the output of `getltscfg -a` ?
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| 20:16 | <andygraybeal> this project is getting a lot of talk in #zentyal and related forum
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| 20:18 | <tastle73> SCANNER="True"
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| 20:18 | LDM_SYSLOG="True"
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| 20:18 | NBD_SWAP="True"
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| 20:18 | LOCAL_APPS="True"
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| 20:18 | TIMESERVER="ntp.ubuntu.com"
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| 20:19 | LDM_DIRECTX="True"
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| 20:19 | and an export line for each
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| 21:25 | <jammcq> !seen cliebow
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| 21:25 | <ltsp> jammcq: cliebow was last seen in #ltsp 4 weeks, 1 day, 2 hours, 16 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <cliebow> going to paint the porch...
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| 21:26 | <jammcq> hmmm
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| 21:43 | <Hyperbyte> Hmmmmm
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| 21:44 | jammcq, that must be some porch...
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| 21:46 | <jammcq> heh
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| 21:46 | hope he didn't fall off it
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| 21:50 | <Hyperbyte> :-D
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| 23:37 | <Roasted> whats up guys
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| 23:45 | <andygraybeal> eya Roasted
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| 23:46 | i'm cooking up some ground venison
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| 23:46 | <Roasted> hello there
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| 23:47 | I'm taking a stab in the dark here... I got some old PPC systems and began to wonder if I could LTSP them....
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| 23:47 | as clients...
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